ATP Science – Episode 80 – Protocols:  Everyday V Elite Athletes


In today’s podcast Matt and I discuss the different requirements for Elite Athletes versus Everyday Athletes, and why one size definitely does not fit all.

We discuss Protocols for Fat Loss, Muscle Gain and Endurance for both types of Athletes and why they are different.


  • Endurance Athlete; stubborn Weight Loss issues. [00:48:10]
  • PTSD & Fatigue                                                 [00:56:00]


**This information is not designed to diagnose, treat, prevent, or cure any condition and is for information purposes only.  Please discuss any information in this podcast with your health care professional before making any changes to your current lifestyle**

You’re with your hosts Matt, Jeff.


Matt: Yo?

Jeff: Everyday Athletes versus Elite Athletes, and we’re talking about Protocols.

Matt:The Elites will win.  I’ll put my money on the Elites.

Jeff: Yeah, I think they will.

(laughing) Only if it was a betting competition.

Matt: Oh.

Jeff: Matt, we talk a lot about the research and studies when you’re looking into things, and typically there is a very narrow band of people who are studied because they’re the only ones that can be studied.  For example, before when we’ve spoken about Fat Loss products, you can’t use Obese people because they consider that to be a Disease State.

Matt: And, Sarcopenic Obesity is the same now, which is inadequate Muscle Mass.  So, you’re right.  In a lot of the studies if you study someone with a Disease and you correct that Disease then you’ve made a drug, and the problem with that is, is that now they’ve said Obesity is a Disease and Sarcopenic Obesity is also a Disease.  So, what that basically means is, overweight Obese people you can’t study for Fat Loss, and normal or underweight Obese people you can’t study for Fat Loss, and they’re the people who actually need the Fat Loss and they’re the people who actually get the Fat Loss from the supplements.  If you’ve got someone who has a normal body composition and you try to force them to burn Fat with a plant and that, what you’re actually doing is you’re creating what they call Anorexic Effects.

And, then you have to prove in a normal person you can make them skinny, and that’s not really healthy, that’s going against the laws of Nature.

Jeff: You always say, Matt, that everybody is an individual.  For someone with a huge amount of Muscle Mass they’re Metabolism, as you’ve said before, even Artificial Sweeteners they may handle differently from the average person.

Matt: Yeah.


Jeff: This is the thing about individuals and Body Composition; it has an impact on Hormones, it has an impact on Enzymes, and processes.  So, even if you get two big guys, muscly guys, and I’m talking Elite bodybuilding guys, or you get high endurance Athletes, they’re physiology and their makeup is so different, but even between the ones in the same category they can also be so different because of individual things that are going on in their bodies.

Matt: And, how they train and all that sort of stuff.

Jeff: So, information as far as studies are concerned are good because they give us some statistical information, but it always must be weighed up about what’s actually happening in the real world.  I know anecdotal evidence is frowned upon in the scientific world because they talk about empirical evidence and all that sort of stuff, but it has its place, Matt.

Matt: Of course.

Jeff: And, I think observable science, as you say, with the Chinese Traditional Medicine, 5000 years of observed science, you start to be able to identify some things maybe that are, what do they say, ‘lies, lies and statistics’ is it?

Matt: Well, you can use statistics to prove whatever you want.  But, the big point we need to make today, and we want people to understand is, you need to have a program, you need to have goals and that sort of stuff.

Now, the difference between and Everyday Athlete and, I don’t know if the word Elite Athlete is the right word, but someone who is an Athlete who has a specific campaign, will have totally different responses to supplements.

If you have a look at an Athlete.  An Athlete will either be training and at any one time they will have a specific goal, they will understand that you can’t get maximum Muscle Growth at the same time as maximum Fat Loss, as well as significant changes to Endurance as well as improvements in Strength, with one Protocol and one Training strategy.  What an Athlete will do, and if you have a look at a bodybuilder, for example, they will go through a campaign of bulking to build Muscle, and in that process they understand that to bulk up and build excessive amounts of Muscle they’re probably going to build an bit of extra Fat and that as well, but they don’t care because their next phase is going to be a dedicated Fat Loss campaign where they’re going to strip all that Fat out and sacrifice a little bit of Muscle in the process.  But, they have campaigns, they will do a holistic Protocol, Diet, Lifestyle, Training, Supplementation, in certain situations Chemical Advantage –

Jeff: Sure.

Matt: To, actually create the Biochemical trap or the ultimate scenario to build Muscle.  Then, they’ll totally switch that around to do a Fat Loss campaign.

The Everyday Athlete is totally different.  You every day bloke and Mum and Dad and everyone else are trying to train on a regular basis because they know it’s good for them, they know if we train every day we’re going to build a little bit more Muscle, we’re going to burn a little bit more Fat, we’re going to improve our Cardio Vascular performance and fitness.


Jeff: Reduce risk of Disease.

Matt: And, we’ve got to improve our Strength and Integrity and that sort of stuff.  We’re going to just plod along, we’re going to do a particular training strategy, maybe slightly changing but never to the extremes that an Elite Athlete will have.

So, what ends up happening is, if you’ve got someone that’s running a style of training, like a moderate intensity exercise training, resistance training and a bit of walking and that sort of stuff, which is the Everyday Athlete, having specific supplementation, for example, Protein supplementation immediately post workout in the Everyday Athlete doesn’t create statistically significant effects for Muscle Growth.  The reasons why are because they don’t train hard enough, they don’t have the whole holistic approach specifically designed to incorporate that Protein into Muscle straight away.  There are other factors that basically mean that their body is just kind of making gradual changes and therefore the gradual changes are not statistically significant in a paper.

Jeff: That makes sense.

Matt: Yet, if you look at a bodybuilder that’s in a Muscle building campaign, he might have the Hormonal Profile necessary to stimulate Muscle Growth whether that’s through Genetics, Naturally, or Synthetically with Steroids and that.

Jeff: Steroids.  Sure.

Matt: They create a Hormonal Profile to be Anabolic.  They do a particular type of training to actually damage Muscle Tissue, maximise Muscle Hypertrophy.  When they use Protein post workout they do get significant results, statistically significant effects from the consumption of that Protein.  Also, we also have to keep in mind what is statistically significant for the average person compared to what is statistically significant for a bodybuilder.  For example, as a bodybuilder coming into a show, if I was to say that using this Protocol may enhance your Protein Synthesis by 5 to 10% and may enhance the Fat Burning by the same percentage, the average person who is sitting at a 25 to 35% Body Fat percentage it’s not statistically significant.

Jeff: It’s not significant.

Matt: They don’t notice the change, they may as well be just consuming Protein with their meals; there’s no real difference there.  But, an Elite Athlete using a dose of around 20 grams of Protein post workout, whether that comes from Whey, Chicken, Beef – it’s interesting there is some new research on those that is showing the same sort of growth as Whey – Rice, Pea Protein and those sorts of things, you can throw those things into a post workout and they will enhance Protein Synthesis, and in an Elite Athlete that is statistically significant, they will feel the things, they will see the change; it does work for them.


So, to go and report a study on an everyday person that doesn’t get statistically significant changes does not necessarily correlate to what will happen in an Athlete, which is why with our Athletes we do spike up and do these full-on Protocols because we create the ultimate – and, if there is a 5% chance of improvement then we take that because for an Athlete that’s the difference.

Jeff: And, I think going back to the Podcast, we were saying the Anabolic window has been misrepresented a little bit, the general population has been misled, and I think a lot of the general population will look at what the Elite Athletes look like and they want to be the Elite Athletes.  They go, “If the Elite Athletes do this then I’ve got to do it as well.”  But, if the training, the dedication to Nutrition, Lifestyle and the Hormonal aspects aren’t there –

Matt: The Body Composition.

Jeff: Sure, and whether it’s naturally high because they’re using their Zinc and Testosterone boosters, and they’re getting an adequate amount of sleep, their Cortisol levels are good, all that sort of stuff goes into it.  And, whether they’re chemically enhanced, and no disrespect to any of these people –

Matt: No, you can do what you want.

Jeff: But, that’s where it’s a bit misleading because I think a lot of companies utilise marketing and say, “Here’s this athlete, and you too can be like this,” and it’s not quite fair.

Matt: No.  Unless you’re doing the holistic approach, unless you’re doing all the extreme actions that an extreme Athlete would do you can’t expect those extreme results.  And, all disappointment comes from unrealistic expectations.

Jeff: Unrealistic expectations, yeah.  That’s’ one of your favourite sayings, it’s a good saying.

Matt: Yeah, well it’s so true.  That’s the big thing, we encouraged to do these things and it’s disheartening when you don’t get the same results as an Elite Athlete.  Like I said, they might be having a chemical advantage, might be training harder, working harder, there are so many other factors to them utilising this Protein for Muscle Synthesis that an Everyday person would not get.

Jeff: I’m just going to say this because I used to get this a lot when I used to sell supplements; especially for all the young guys out there going, “Okay.  Therefore, to get big and to look like these guys I’ve got to get some Steroids.”  No.  That’s only an extremely small part of actually what makes, especially, a bodybuilder, look like that.

Matt: Exactly.

Jeff: In fact, if you talk to any of the guys who are right on top of their game, it’s the dedication to their Nutrition and their training, their Lifestyle.

Matt: And, 20 years in a Naturopath clinic the people who came to see me with the side effects from Steroids and the big problems were the guys that had not enough Muscle, too much Fat, thinking, “I can become a giant bodybuilder by taking Steroids,” and they start doing a course of Steroids without having the training and the Nutrition to match it, and they just lose their hair and get man boobs, they get all the worst side effects.  Then, their mate who was actually working really hard and who already had the other stuff right, the training and the diet and all that before he brought in the Steroids, didn’t get the side effects.


Jeff: We’re not advocating or disavowing Steroids, by the way, we’re just saying these are common traps that people fall into.

But Matt, getting back to the Protocols for the Everyday, and most people would fall into the Everyday, so in about 5% of the population, if I remember correctly Matt, it’s training in any form.  Of that, you’d probably be looking at 5% of those people, maybe even less, who what we consider to be Elite.  The 95% of the rest of us, and I would put myself included into that, we’re training maybe three to five times per week, we have a job, we’re not particularly training specifically for any event, and if it is it’s probably playing Rugby or NFL, or Basketball, or summer or beach or losing weight so that we can go on holidays and look good, that’s the Everyday Athlete, and that’s the person who is committed to their training but they’re not –

Matt: Well, let’s talk about them first.

Jeff: Alright.

Matt: With the Everyday Athlete there is a certain amount of Protein that you require in a day to be able to maintain and to be able to build some extra Muscle Mass.  That may range from about 1 to 2 grams per kilo of Body Weight.  Work with a personal trainer to tell you your Macro Nutrient requirements for the day.  You can then use Foods and Supplements to create that Macro Nutrient Profile.  Then, the only Protein I don’t recommend because it just seems weird, is Soy.  But, if you have a look at all the other Proteins, all the way from Hydrolysed Whey to Milk Proteins and that sort of stuff –

Jeff: They’re convenient, Matt.

Matt: Yeah, and they’re bloody good too, they’re tasty and it’s easier and easily absorbed and they have other little benefits as well.  But, for the Everyday Athlete you need a certain amount of Protein in a day.  So, get that Protein through a combination of Foods and Supplements.  Whether you have that Protein around training or not doesn’t seem to make a huge amount of difference for your Muscle Gain and Fat Loss for the Everyday person.

But, what you will find with the Everyday person is you may have to split your training to be able to achieve your goals, meaning that in one resistance training session you’re not going to be able to specifically Build Muscle and Burn Fat, which is why it’s a good idea to do a combination of Cardio and a resistance.  So, for the Everyday person getting up and doing Fasted Cardio can significantly stimulate that Fat Burning process and enhance that Fat Burning.

When I’m talking about Fasted Cardio, when you wake up in the morning you’ve got no Insulin, no Fuel, it’s the best time of the day for you to Burn more Fat.  So, if you’re an Everyday Athlete, get up and go for a walk on an empty stomach, get that Metabolism cranking, deplete your Glycogen out of your Muscles, force your body into Fat Burning.

Now, for an Everyday Athlete you want to make sure you’re not losing excessive amounts of Muscle, you want to preserve whatever Muscle you have.  So, before that training you want to use some Anti Catabolic ingredients to stop your body from breaking down the Muscle to fuel that exercise, because you want to Burn Fat.


So, the sorts of things you can do is trickle in some Fats, Conjugated Linoleic Acid, Conjugated Linolenic Acid, whether it’s liquid of capsule, whatever is more to do with you.  Try to avoid flavoured and sweetened things because they can screw around with Insulin.  You can use things like Acetyl L-Carnitine as long as it’s not flavoured, and you might need about 3 grams a day.  For the Everyday Athlete, they can usually only tolerate between 1 to 3 grams because they’re not absorbing as much because they’re not using as much.

Jeff: Matt, we’ve spoken about this before, it’s not essential that you take it at that time, is it?

Matt: No.

Jeff: Because, it does go into a –

Matt: It goes into a pool from where your body can take that Carnitine to replenish Carnitine Palmitoyltransferase, so it doesn’t matter when you take it.

Jeff: We’ve said that, and mind you, old habits die hard, I still take mine in the morning.

Matt: There’s no harm, man.  Just do the Acetyl form and make sure it’s not sweetened and don’t put it in juice because the sweeteners of the juice can create Insulin changes and Insulin stops the Carnitine Enzyme from working.

Jeff: Yeah, we’ve spoken about that.  It basically gears up the Metabolism and it thinks, “There might be Sugar coming in,” so it downregulates Fat Burning.

Matt: Yeah.  So, for your Everyday person try to do some Fasted Cardio.  The other trick too is, you don’t have to have anything with your Fasted Cardio, you can just go, or you can have a black coffee or something like that.

I’ll tell you what’s really interesting, and this is something I’m trying to work out a lot more about; there is a Bug called Akamansia that actually feeds on Mucous and thrives during Fasting.  What it does is it creates a really good Microflora environment to keep the weight off once you lose it.  So, going through periods of time with nothing in your mouth, like just Saliva, because this stuff is mainly made in the mouth and then migrates from there.  So, if you go for periods of time not eating and actually keeping those Carbs and those sorts of things away from the Gut you can actually, periodically, make this particular Bug thrive that can regulate your Cravings, your Metabolic Rate.  It actually regulates your Glucagon like Peptide released from your Gut that controls Satiety, Cravings, Metabolism and all sorts of stuff, and it keeps the other Bacteria in control.

Jeff: Glucagon doesn’t work when Insulin – are those two opposed?  Is that right?

Matt: Yeah, they work opposite.  Glucagon-like Peptide is a bit different, it’s released from the Gut to basically say, “You’ve got ample Fat and Protein here to eat, but not enough Carbs,” so it will tell your body to Burn Fat.

The other thing that Enzyme does is, you know when you go into starvation mode, this particular Peptide comes out and says, “Don’t go into starvation mode, you do have ample Calories,” so it’s a sneaky one, and it actually controls the Flora.

Jeff: That’s cool.  And, that’s the big thing with yoyo Dieting which we’ve spoken about before, and not so much for the Elite Athletes or the really high end, hardcore, because they understand you need to eat small regular meals to lose weight.  But, for the yoyo Dieters, the guys that starve themselves and that sort of stuff, that’s when you get the imbalances starting to happen.  Right?


Matt: Yeah.

Jeff: So, this could be a good one to stop that happening.

Matt: Yeah, that’s right.  So, with the Everyday Athlete, Fasted Cardio, whether you have something before it or after it doesn’t matter, it’s just a matter of getting the Metabolic Rate going, and also depleting your Glycogen, so that way you go into an Insulin Sensitive state for the rest of the day.  So, if you’re an Everyday Athlete you can actually achieve more Fat Loss as part of your campaign by doing Fasted Cardio and then doing Resistance Exercise at a different time of day.

Now, with regards to supplementation for Resistance Exercise, what you’ve got to understand is it’s hard to do everything at once, you can’t really Burn Fat and Build Muscle at the same time.  So, you’ve just got to look at other things, like, “I want to train every day, or at least three to five times a week.”  Inflammation, Pain, DOMS, Injury Management, those sorts of things become extremely important for the Everyday Athlete, more important for your Everyday Athlete than your Elite Athlete.  But, we hear more complaints from the Elite Athlete saying, “I just don’t get sore from training anymore.  I’m that finely tuned I don’t get sore anymore,” where it’s the opposite with the Everyday Athlete, they train and then two days later – if they’re not training every second day they’re just a mess.

So, what is important with your Everyday Athlete to keep their motivation and commitment going is to make sure you’re looking after things like DOMS, Inflammation and Injury Management.  So, again, Anti Catabolic ingredients like HMB, CLA, and Anti-Inflammatory ingredients, Turmeric, Boswellia –

Jeff: Omegas.

Matt: Yeah, and all your Omega Oils.  They’re very good at preventing the DOMS, they’re very good at preventing the Injury and keeping these people feeling Strong and Fit and Healthy, not as if they’re getting Damaged, Injured and Sick from training because then they will stop.  But also, loading up with things that may improve their enjoyment in the gym by improving their Performance, their Strength, giving them more Power, seeing those numbers climb up, and the best one for that is actually Citrulline Malate. If you give an Everyday Athlete Citrulline Malate it actually enhances the Vasodilation, they get very good delivery of Energy, they can do more Reps, have more Power, get less Pain, so it’s a good one.  And, with Citrulline Malate you can use it as a pre-workout, about 2 grams is all they really need to work as a Vasodilator.  It’s very important for the Everyday Athlete, especially ones who may be elderly or have Cardiovascular Disorders where they struggle with good Circulation, may have Blood Pressure problems and that sort of thing, those people can feel massive differences from Citrulline Malate.

If you find someone who has constant Lactic Acid problems, you those people who say that two days after training they’re just a mess, it doesn’t matter how they train, they just have that soreness in there.  That’s where Beta Alanine can be really good for the Everyday Athlete.  With the Beta Alanine, you can load up on that, you don’t need to take it pre -workout, it’s just something they can take on a daily basis, and they can even take lower doses more often so they don’t get as itchy.


If you’re giving Beta Alanine to the Everyday Athlete you have to warn them that this thing is going to prickle; you’re not dying, you’re not Allergic to it, it’s just a prickle.  The prickle is actually caused by a weird Receptor that controls heat sensations and all that sort of stuff on the Nerves.  It’s not Histamine.

Jeff: Well, I was way off base, I thought it was a Histamine reaction.

Matt: Well, they always thought it was Histamine, they actually thought it was linked in with the conversion of Histidine to Histamine.

Jeff: Right.

Matt: But, they couldn’t block it with Antihistamines, they were going, “What the bloody hell?  How does it work?”  Then, they went through and found these – it’s MDGRDPB or something stupid Receptor, so that’s why I read it the blah Receptor, it works on that and that works on thermos sensation, the Nerve sensations under your skin that tells you when you’re in trouble, but it does have a stimulant effect, so when you activate it, it actually does wake you up.

Jeff: The other big one, and I think this would be used more than any other by Everyday Athletes, and again we’re not adverse to it, Matt, I think a lot of people think that we’re opposed to using stimulants and things like Caffeine, but we just want people to be aware of not over using them or not becoming reliant on them.

Matt: No, it’s in my little Protocol here, Caffeine’s good.

Jeff: It is, but for the Adrenals, Matt, remember in some of our original Podcasts – and it’s funny because a lot of people go, “You guys hate Caffeine,” well no we don’t, actually.  It’s great in moderation so long as it’s not overused.  So, Caffeine – and we use Yerba Mate as well too, which is another form of Caffeine.

Matt: Yeah, that’s right.  So, the problem with Caffeine is when you use the wrong forms of Caffeine, like if you use Synthetic forms that don’t follow the laws of Nature, like Guarana and the Yerba Mate that trickle all the different forms of Caffeine in.

Jeff: Those are the good forms.  People might be going, “Hang on, I thought they were Natural.”

Matt: Yeah, Gurana and Yerba Mate are really good.  But you have the Hydrous Caffeine, like pure Synthetic pharmaceutical grade Caffeines they get absorbed so fast and they cause this weird spike and then a crash, that’s why the Natural ones are just nicer.  A lot of plants that contain Caffeine will also contain Antioxidants that can downregulate the stimulating effects of Caffeine, which is why you feel less effect from Green Tea than you would from a high Caffeine extract, even if they’ve got the same amount of Caffeine in them.  The same with Yerba Mate.

The cool thing about Caffeine is it’s what they call a Phosphodiesterase Type 2 Inhibitor, and that preserves Cyclic AMP in your Cells for a long period of time.

Jeff: What is that, Matt?

Matt: AMP is a stimulant, so it stimulates Fat Burning, Muscle Gain, it’s really cool, man.  So, using Caffeine properly is good.  What you want to do when you use Caffeine is understand that it’s going to cause an excessive release of Cortisol, and Cortisol is Catabolic.  You can’t really stop Caffeine from releasing Cortisol unless you give someone a Sedative at the same time.  So, sometimes all you can do is, if you’ve got Caffeine saying, “Go, go, go,” and if I’m going to put in a Sedative that says, “No, no, no,” then whoever wins will –


Jeff: They cancel each other out.

Matt: So, that’s stupid.  The other way of doing it is protecting yourself from the Cortisol that has been released in response to Caffeine, because you’ll also release Cortisol in response to Exercise and all that sort of stuff.  So, whether you’re having a pre-workout stimulant in the form of Caffeine, a Nootropic, or if you’re just psyching yourself up, or mimicking fight and flight, you’re going to get Cortisol release.  So, you’re better off protecting yourself from the Cortisol.  So again, for your Everyday Athlete, CLA is very good for that because it’s also a very good Anti-Inflammatory.  Conjugated Linolenic Acid, or CLNA is also excellent for that same process, and it actually does its job and then converts to CLA anyway.

Jeff: Okay.

Matt: Other Anticatabolic, like Anti-Inflammatory compounds and that are also very good.

Jeff: Like Turmeric and that sort of thing.

Matt: Omega 3 Oils, that sort of stuff.

Jeff: Cool.

Matt: So, for your Everyday Athlete you’re trying to control Recovery, Regeneration and Repair.  Make sure they’re getting the most out of their Fat Burning parts of the day, and then maximising their Muscle Building parts of the day.

So, the ideal way to do it for the Everyday Athlete is to Burn Fat for the first half of the day, then finish off by doing a bit of Resistance Exercise and then reload your Glycogen at the end of the day to actually make sure you’ve got fuel in your Muscles when you get up and go again the next morning.  That keeps you Insulin Sensitive all day, Burning Fat all day, and then you can load your Muscles back up while you’re asleep at night, which is when you’ll be doing your Regeneration and Repair.

Jeff: That way you’ll be releasing the Testosterone, Androgen Hormone.

Matt: Exactly.  And, that way you’ll get a little bit of Fat Loss and a little bit of Muscle Gain, your Cardiovascular health is going to improve and your Strength is also going to improve over time, so you’re on the right path, you’re gradually getting better not gradually getting worse.

An Elite Athlete is totally different.

Jeff: Alright, so now we’re going to talk about some of the Elite Athletes?  Because, they’ll be listening to this, Matt, going, “Well, there’s a lot of this stuff that I use.”

Matt: Yeah.

Again, we’re not saying it’s mutually exclusive, the Citrulline and the Beta Alanine, of course.

Matt: The doses will vary.  But, interestingly, before I move on, with regards to Protein requirements for Everyday Athletes versus bodybuilders and Elite Athletes, it’s not proportional to Muscle Mass.  They’ve found that it’s more proportional to exercise intensity.  So, you can be a big bloke but you don’t need more Protein if you’re not actually turning over that Protein, it’s more to do with fuelling the Protein turnover.  The research is now saying, that for people who struggle with Mass, so for people who can’t put it on, they’ve got a lower Muscle Mass and they actually require more Protein than someone with a large Muscle Mass who uses Protein more efficiently.  So, they’re now starting to think, “Maybe it’s exercise intensity.”

So, for a lean person who trains really hard and can’t bulk up they need more Protein than a large person who actually utilises Protein more efficiently.

Jeff: Wouldn’t that be partly to do with that they just throw more Protein in there because we know some of it is going to be Oxidised?  I mean if you were really good wouldn’t you just add a bit more Carbohydrates especially around the time that you’re consuming the Protein?  Or, does it not work that way?


Matt: Well, let’s talk about it.  What is the goal?  What are we talking about, are we talking about Muscle Gain, are we talking about Fat Loss, are we talking about Strength performance, or are we talking about Endurance?  Because, now we’re talking about Elite Athletes, we’re no longer talking generalised, so we can’t now go and say, “In an Elite Athlete this study shows that this Protein is not statistically significant,” because everything is different now, and there are very few studies that we can go back to on Elite Athletes because most studies are for commercial gain, so most studies are there to target the people who are spending all the money, they’re not actually looking at Performance in Elite Athletes.  So, it’s a bit harder.

Jeff: It comes down to the goal, I guess.  Again, if you look at power based Athletes Muscle is important, but you could be huge and strong, like for football players or NFL players if they can’t run they’re no good to anyone.

Matt: Yeah, exactly.

Jeff: Well, unless you’re a line back.  I don’t know.

Matt: We’ll talk about Muscle Gain first.  Your Protocol for gaining Muscle will, like I said before, in the process of bulking you’re going to bulk up a bit of Fat and that sort of stuff as well.  So, your Protocol for Muscle Building is all about fuel, fuel, fuel.  Over fuelling, supplying excessive amounts of fuel, because if you have an overabundance of fuels it stimulates the mTOR Pathway, which stimulates Hypertrophy and Anabolic processes and Muscle Growth.

If you’re in a fuel Deficit then you get the AMP K activation, which is Catabolic but also stimulates more Fat Burning.  We’ll talk about that a bit later, but for Muscle Growth, if you’re not focusing on having an overabundance of fuel you’re not capable of building more Muscle.

So, what we want to do is we want to look at those fuels that you’re capable of using.  Sugar is going to get used first.  If you take Protein pre-workout as a bodybuilder or as an Elite Athlete you will convert that Branch Chain Amino Acids, or you’ll convert that Protein and use them as fuel.  That’s perfectly fine.  When you’re trying to build Muscle – for Endurance and Performance you want to it be more efficient, but for building Muscle you basically want to focus on Protein Synthesis, Anticatabolic action.  So, if you want to build Muscle per workout having a combination of Carbohydrates and Protein and that sort of stuff will actually fuel your exercise so you’re not having to break down Muscle and break down Liver to fuel that exercise.  That way, you’re reducing the amount of Catabolic actions that happen at the same time as you’re enhancing the Anabolic Recovery, so you’re going to get greater gains.

Because, the process of exercising breaks you, it doesn’t make you stronger.

Jeff: Yes.

Matt: So, we want to reduce the breaking and enhance the Recovery and that way you’ll get Hypertrophy instead of the other way.  Those people who train really hard and just can’t build Muscle and can’t hold Fat and that sort of stuff, they’re Catabolic processes are just exceeding their Anabolic processes.


Jeff: Absolutely.  And, there are lots of coaches who – I remember this story where there were all these bodybuilders and this guy said, “Look, I’ll guarantee you that I’ll be able to put on X amount of new Muscle Mass within seven days or something,” and all these guys who were having problems, they’d plateaued and stagnated and all the rest of it, he brought them out and he said, “Right, here we go.  Here’s a camp for two weeks, and I think for the first five days or something they did nothing, virtually they had massages, they relaxed, they took it easy, because again, he was making a point and the point was that they were over training.

Matt: Yeah.

Jeff: And, as you say, it’s probably not over training it’s under Recovery –

Matt: Exactly

Jeff: And again, it’s the same thing but different sides of the same coin, really.

Matt: Yeah.  So, with Muscle Gain it’s all about fuel, and the Anticatabolic products that we use in an Elite Athlete trying to build Muscle are Anticatabolic because they’re used as fuel.

Jeff: Like Branch Chains, specifically.

Matt: Yeah.  For example, Branch Chains will be either Glucogenic or Ketogenic, they’ll convert to either Sugars or Ketones and they will be used as fuel instead of breaking down Muscle, and instead of Burning Fat.

Jeff: And, that’s depending on what you’re after?

Matt: So, if you’re in a Muscle Gaining campaign understand that you are going to be bulking up, and you’ll bulk up with a bit of Muscle, you’ll bulk up with a bit of Fat, but that’s the best way to build up the most amount of Muscle, it’s too hard to do both.

So, what you want to do is make sure you’ve got adequate fuel, so Branch Chain Amino Acids, HMB, extra Leucine, fuel in the form of Carbs and extra Proteins and that sort of stuff will make sure that you’re not breaking down Muscle during training.  Then, what you want to do post workout is, we want to make sure there is adequate fuel there for the Glycogen replenishment, because you don’t need to stay Glycogen Depleted to stimulate Fat Burning if you’re in a Muscle building campaign.

Post workout, what you want to do then is make sure you’re loading up on crazy amounts of things like Branch Chain Amino Acids, and when I say crazy amounts, like 10 or 20 grams worth of Branch Chains post workout.  Creatine for a Muscle gaining campaign definitely post workout.  If you do that pre workout it causes Fluid Retention, Cramping and Bloating, but if you do Creatine post workout after you’ve depleted your ATP it goes straight in.  So, 10 to 20 grams of Creatine post workout if you’re an Elite Athlete.  Then, 10 to 20 grams of Protein added to that, and that Protein could be Whey Protein, Isolate, not Casein, that’s too slow, Rice seems to be a gun for that, post workout Rice Protein.

Jeff: It’s funny, eh?

Matt: That spins me out that.  And, this is especially if you’re training properly though, the Rice will only work when people train properly.  And, Pea Protein or whatever.  So, you can put in your Protein, about 10 to 20 grams of Protein.  The research from Fonterra, the guys that make the Whey, they say 20 grams of Protein.


A lot of people will say, “These studies are not right, because we should be taking 40 grams of Protein,” but the people who make the Protein say 20 grams of Protein is usually enough.

Jeff: But, that was for an 80-kilo male, was that right?

Matt: Yeah, yeah.  But, basically, what they did show is that if you went up to 40 grams for an Elite Athlete you can improve your results by about 10%.

Jeff: Wow.

Matt: This is why I talk about – so, for the Average person the difference between 20 grams of Protein or 40 grams of Protein is only like a 10% improvement from the 20 gram to the 40 gram dose, which is not statistically significant, but in an Elite Athlete taking from a 20 gram to a 40 gram dose change and getting a 5 to 10% improvement on top of what you were doing at 20 grams is statistically significant and worth doing.

Jeff: Mm.

Matt: And, like I was saying before, your Protein requirements are directly proportional to your exercise intensity, not Muscle Mass and that sort of stuff.

So, post workout, Creatine, Branch Chain Amino Acids, Glutamine about 5 to 10 grams post workout, 10 to 20 grams of your Protein depending on how big you are and that sort of stuff, and the Leucine is going to come from the Branch Chains anyway, so you don’t need any extra Leucine.  And, that’s the sort of thing you’ d put into a post workout, and then Carbs.  So, talk about what sort of Carbs you need in your post workout –

Oh, the Fat stuff, man.  I get a lot of questions with people saying, “How would we go if we took out the Protein and Carbs and we did Fat for Muscle Growth?”  What happens in that situation is, that creates crazy changes to the structure of your Muscle Cells.

Jeff: Are you serious?

Matt: Yeah.  When you take away Carbs and increase Fat over a period of time, what it does is it Triggers Mitochondrial Biogenesis.

Jeff: Oh yeah.  The cyclists do this.

Matt: Yeah.  You get more Mitochondrial Density, but it makes your Muscles leaner and wirier, you don’t get the fullness and the puffiness.  You get more strength, you get better performance and that sort of stuff, but it takes ages for that to happen.  What it does in these people is, basically they starve people of Carbs, keep them in a Carb Deficit, put the Fat in and try to trick the Muscle Cells into compensating for the lack of Carbs and the overconsumption of Fat.  But, the only way it improves performance is, prior to their exercise they switch back to Carbs.  It’s like training at altitude.

Jeff: At altitude, it sounds like that.

Matt: They starve, starve, starve, and make the body adjust and adapt, and then when they throw the Carbs back in all of a sudden, it’s just like, “Boom, let’s go.”

Jeff: Wow.

Matt: So, for the bodybuilding and Muscle Gain stuff it’s not really – it’s more for Strength or Power, but it’s not even an acute strategy, it’s a long-term plan to change the architecture in your body.

Jeff: For me, with regards to Carbohydrates, especially in people looking to build Muscle Tissue post training, is probably one of the things that is either the most feared or overlooked.


Matt: Yeah.

Jeff: For me, Matt, and you correct me if I’m wrong, the Carbohydrates create a protective mechanism to stop the Protein from being Oxidised and used for Energy.

Matt: It will get Burnt first, and this is the big thing, if you don’t put the Carbs in your body has to make the Carbs out of the other Proteins anyway.  But, if you put the Carbs in the Carbs will go and do the Glycogen Replenishment in the Muscle and the Liver, top up those, and fuel the ATP Regeneration, help the delivery of the Creatine.  The other thing I hadn’t got to is Electrolytes, extremely important post workout for Athletes, in particular Magnesium and Potassium.  Reload that back up because the combination of Sugar with Intracellular Salts – if you stack that with Creatine and it takes the Creatine inside the Cells because they’re craving the other things and the Creatine goes with it.

Jeff: Well, I was going to say, what I used to prescribe, and I know a lot of guys who listen to the Podcast, we’ve got Athletes who listen to it, we’ve got Everyday people, which is probably the bulk of it.

Matt: Most of it is Everyday people, I think.

Jeff: Yeah.  Which is me.  But, we’ve also got a lot of store owners and a lot of sales people who listen to the Podcasts as well, Matt.  One of the things I used to do is talk about the Insulin effect of simple Sugars post training to actually help to drive, specifically, the Creatine into the Muscle Cell.

Matt: Oh yeah.

Jeff: So, that’s only part of the story?  If you’ve got the Electrolytes as well too, is that correct?

Matt: Yeah, and it is only part of the story anyway, because when you’re in a Glycogen Depleted state your body uses GLUT4 Transporters to suck the Sugars in anyway, through the back door rather than Insulin.

Jeff: Really?

Matt: Yeah.  So, the Insulin has more of an effect with Insulin like Growth Factor-1 and all that sort of stuff.

Jeff: I know Insulin is very Anabolic.

Matt: Yeah.

Jeff: So, again, for the Average person versus the high end, because a lot of the high-end Athletes will actually inject Insulin as well to obviously help get Nutrient uptake into the Muscle Cell.

Matt: Yeah.

Jeff: Can that be replicated through having a high Sugar post workout, 40 or 50 grams?

Matt: Yeah, and I’m so glad you brought it up.  Because, an Insulin spike is beneficial during a Muscle Gain Protocol.  So, you want to induce Insulin Secretion when you’re trying to build Muscle to deliver stuff to your Muscles, but in a Fat Loss campaign you don’t.

Jeff: Of course.

Matt: So, it’s a really good point.  When you’re doing Muscle Building, using Carbs before, during and after training, there is absolutely no problem, in fact it’s encouraged because that’s going to fuel your exercise and allow the Protein to do Protein things.  And, to simplify it, if you’re taking away the Carbs then your body isn’t always going to use Protein for Protein Synthesis, for Neurotransmitter production, for all that sort of stuff, and you won’t get the same degree of mTOR activation to stimulate the Anabolic processes if you’re taking Protein without the Carbs post workout, and intra, and pre, and all that.

Jeff: Sure.

Matt: So, it is an important thing, because it’s all about fuel, if you want to grow you need an overabundance of fuel.


The other thing to be aware of for the Muscle Building guys is, the Anticatabolic stuff with the Cortisol, things like HMB –

Jeff: HMB is cool, but you don’t see that much HMB around these days.

Matt: No. It’s cool, man.  But, what I loved about HMB, and I used to use a lot of it in my Naturopath clinic.  I remember reading a study where HMB could stop the Muscle loss in 80-year-old men with Cancer, and I remember thinking, “Bloody hell, if it can do that, imagine what it can do in an athlete.”

Jeff: Yes.  Well, when I first started training HMB, in Australia, was banned.

Matt: Really?

Jeff: Yeah, it was.  I remember reading an article on Burns patients that they used HMB with and it showed a significant reduction in Muscle wastage and Muscle Loss in Burns patients.  Obviously, they’re just lying there, and effectively can’t move, doing nothing, and it was preventing the Muscles from breaking down.

Exactly.  The thing is with HMB, again, any studies on the Everyday person shows bugger all, because it does bugger all in the Everyday person.  But, in an extreme situation like Burns, like Cancer, like Elite Athletes, it does amazing things.

Jeff: When should HMB be used, Matt?

Matt: We use it pre-workout, you use it before you’re about to get Muscle Loss, so use it when you’ve got big exposure to Cortisol, in states of Inflammation, Infection, that sort of stuff, and you use it prior to work out, and you use it definitely if you’re having some stimulants.

Jeff: So, what is the argument then for people who might say, “Well, if Leucine converts to HMB, why not just use Leucine?”

Matt: Well, you can because it does those things, but Leucine is also Ketogenic, can convert to Ketones.  And, HMB is a Ketone, by the way.  So, when you use HMB your body is using it as a fuel and it’s competing with other Ketones such as the by-products of Fat.  So, HMB is really good for Muscle Gain, but in a Fat Loss campaign it will slow down your Fat Loss.

Jeff: Interesting.

Matt: So, for an Elite Athlete they may want to use the HMB during their Muscle Gain, and they may want to take it out as part of their Fat Loss.  For the Everyday person who is trying to achieve a little bit of each every day, not doing like a month campaign sort of thing, they can take HMB to stop a little bit of that Muscle Loss and that.  So, that’s why I’m saying, people will use things totally different depending on your campaign.

Jeff: It seems a lot of the supplementation for the Everyday people is oversubscribed, they’re taking more supplements than probably what they need to be.

Matt: Well, they use it for prevention.  It’s just different.  The Everyday person probably needs to invest equal amounts of effort, time and money into their supplementation, it’s just for totally different priorities.  The Everyday Athlete’s priority will maybe be cosmetic, “I want to look good,” “I want to prevent disease,” “I want to gradually get fitter,” “I want to live longer and play more with the kids,” you know, that sort of stuff is the motivation for the Everyday Athlete.


This is the difference between and Naturopathic consult and having on online Naturopathic store or something, because you’ve got to talk to the people and say, “What are your goals?  Let’s create a strategy to achieve your goals.”  Because, you might spin out; if you’re a store owner who is a bodybuilder who is dead set passionate about Building Muscle and Burning Fat you might be passionate about something that the other people aren’t.

A big point for me, for example, me personally I’m still just a normal person –

Jeff: Well, normal is stretching it.

Matt: Yeah, well I’m still a person and I’ve got strengths and weaknesses and things like that and different priorities.  For me, the concept of going on a massive supplementary campaign, to go on a massive campaign specifically for Muscle Gain or specifically for Fat Loss and all that sort of stuff, I personally would feel selfish because I’ve got a wife, I’ve got children, I work hard, I’ve got a certain number of hours at home, so for me to go to do that – my priorities are totally different.

I only exercise because I want to live forever because I’ve got goals and things I need to achieve and I think it’s going to take me a long time to do that, I want to be there for my kids and I want to be an active sort of person.  But, my interest in my supplementation is so I can walk two days after leg day.

My goal is to get this Frozen Shoulder to allow me to train, so my supplementation campaign would be totally different, and of course I’ll go into little campaigns working with our coaches and I’ll go, “I want to build a bit more Muscle and I’m going to go a bit more,” but it will mild changes compared to the changes that an Elite Athlete would make.

Jeff: Or, a highly motivated individual who says, “Enough is enough, this is the focus for me.”

Matt: When people would say, “No, you are important too.  You need to focus on you.  It’s all about meal prep, you need to dedicate hours and days to prepping meals and you need to take the family budget to – because, you are important too.”  For me, I hear all those things and I agree but I don’t believe it because for me my priority is something else different to what other people are trying to teach.  And, there are a lot of other people out there like me.

So, it’s very important, as a retailer, as a personal trainer –

Jeff: A coach.

Matt: And, also as a consumer, be honest with your customers, and be honest with yourself, “What are your goals?  What are you trying to achieve?” and work with the person in the shop and your coach to create a Protocol specific for you.

Jeff: That gets you result that you want.  Without short-changing yourself or leaving stuff on the bench.  It’s like anything, any significant change is difficult, isn’t it, Matt, it takes effort and dedication.

Matt: Yeah.  Because this is a Podcast a lot of people while driving or treadmilling and all that, I’m not expecting people to be there with a pen and paper writing down these Protocols we’re talking about today, so I’m going to write up a Blog with the recipes and with the Protocols for Everyday Athletes.  And, then what we probably will do is follow up with some more Podcasts specifically talking about Protocols for Muscle Gain, Fat Loss for the Elite Athletes.  But, I’m going to write those Protocols up now anyway and we’ll discuss them in greater depth later.


Jeff: One of the things I always look for too, Matt, is “What are the low hanging fruits?  What are the things you can do that are going to give you the most significant amount of change to get you towards the goal that you want to?”

Matt: Yeah.

Jeff: And again, you can refine and you can drill right down into the details.  Yeah, I think people will get a lot out of that, Matt, and I think a lot of people want some clarity around what is the best for them, depending on whether they’re an Elite Athlete, whether and Everyday Athlete, what are their Fat Loss goals, whether it’s Muscle Gain, whether it’s Endurance, whether it’s Strength.

Matt: In saying all that, the Everyday Athlete can learn a lot from the Elite Athlete Protocols.  So, for the Everyday Athlete who is bitching that they’re not getting the results they feel they deserve, have a look at what we’re talking about here.  If you are the sort of person who is doing a little bit of everything and you’re complaining that you’re not getting specific changes in an particular area because you may want to focus your efforts into a particular area, if you’re an Everyday Athlete this is what you do to maintain, this is a maintenance Protocol, this is a management Protocol.  But, if you look at that and you go, “Geez, I really want to bulk up and build some more Muscle,” then you can follow some of the Elite Athlete Protocols, but I suggest if you want to follow some of the Elite Athlete Protocols then you work directly with an Elite Athlete as a personal trainer or as a coach to show you how they train and how they eat to guarantee that you get the results you deserve from that supplemental Protocol.

Because, if you’re an Everyday Athlete training like an Everyday Athlete but then suddenly think, “I’m going to switch my supplemental Protocol to be similar to an Elite Athlete and then I’m to get the same gains as an Elite Athlete,” that’s what the studies have shown does not happen.

Jeff: That’s it, and that’s the crux of it, I think, Matt.  Some Everyday Athletes might go, “I didn’t have the knowledge before but now I know what to do.  I want to become an Elite Athlete, I want to follow that.  I’m prepared to spend half my Sunday in the kitchen cooking up my meals and prepping everything.”

Matt: Exactly.  Or, “t is my turn to be selfish.”  Or, like me, “I’ve been selfish my whole life, I think it’s my turn to not be selfish.”  I’m at that phase where I put my body on the line for the team, sort of thing.

Jeff: Good one, Matt.  Good one.

Matt: But anyway, we’ll write all this stuff up and we’ll give the Protocols and what doses of Beta Alanine, Citrulline Malate, Creatines, how to use the Proteins before, during and after.

Jeff: HMB.  Not that we have one but it’s interesting.

Matt: Well, a lot of this stuff we don’t actually have, but these are the Protocols we’ve used with our Elite Athletes, these are the Protocols that we’ve used in the Naturopath clinic to allow people to get results.

Jeff: Excellent.  So, Matt, write up those Protocols, we’ll have them there.  Is there anything else you want to say before we get into some FAQs?

Matt: Uhm?  Oh, there’s too much.

Jeff: There’s a lot.

Matt: There is a lot.

Jeff: It’s a big ground to cover.  Maybe what we could do is break down some of these into individual Protocols for Podcasts, for example, Fat Loss, and or Muscle Gain.  I know we’ve touched on these things before, but you know –


Matt: Well, we’ll do some Elite Athlete Protocols and that.

Jeff: Sounds like a plan.

Alright, Mattie, moving on to some FAQs.


This one is from Brendon-

“Hi Matt and Jeff.  I’ve a number of questions but before I start I’ll give you some context.

            I’m a competitive cyclist and have been trying to drop weight while still maintaining and increasing my power output, but not really having much luck with the weight drop.  Because of this I’m about to see a Sports Dietician to ensure what I’m eating is correct for me.

            Over the past six months or so I’ve been using most of your products and I think I may not be helping myself by doing this.  I started with the CORT RX 1 x 3 per day, 2 before a hard session.  T432 PLUS 1 x 3 per day, ALPHA MARS 2 morning and 2 at night.  I did notice that the CORT RX assisted with my Recovery but haven’t seen or felt the benefit of the T432 and the MARS.  Then I started taking PRIME 2 morning and night, and again haven’t noticed the Body Fat levels drop.

            I tried SUBCUT and BLOCK E3 at in the morning and night before a training ride I did notice a few changes but wasn’t sure if it was the creams or in fact I was doing lots of Fat Burning and Cardio work.

            So, as you can see I’m trying everything you talk about and my wife thinks I’m taking way too many of the supplements.  So, my questions are; am I taking them incorrectly even though all taken as prescribed on the bottle?  Or, are they just not helping me?  Should I change the recommended doses and the time of day and see what happens, or should I just go back to basics an limit the products I’m taking and not all of them?

            I’m happy to try whatever you recommend, to help me get the best outcome with your products and get value for money.  I’m sure the Dietician will tweak a few things, but if I could get some guidance from you and Matt it would be greatly appreciated.

            On a side note, I’ve noticed that I’ve stopped biting my nails.  Is this due to PRIME?  And, I’m a lot more relaxed than I was before starting on your products.  I think the CORT RX is a wicked product.

            Thanks, and keep up the good work, Brendon.”

Matt, what do you reckon?

Matt: A really good question because this is exactly what we’re talking about.  Supplementation does certain things, but it can be overridden by other factors.  For example; depending on where you hold the weight can give us an indication of which Hormonal Profile may be holding onto it.  Sometimes it’s not about how hard you can push things, it’s about where we can remove the handbrakes to allow Fat to Burn and that sort of stuff.

So, if you are holding the weight deep inside it might be Stress related, and then the CORT RX is essential.  If we’re looking at specifically Subcutaneous Fat, Love Handles, Lower Back, Hips, Thighs, we might be looking at an Estrogenic issue which is very, very common in cyclists because of the exposure to petrochemicals and fumes.

Jeff: Is that, right?  From trucks and that?

Matt: Yeah, the Xenoestrogens, man, they’re inhaling all these pollutants.  They have massive problems with Osteoporosis and all sorts of stuff.

Jeff: Wow.


Matt: And, Prostate Cancer and Testicular Cancer are really common in cyclists, partly the seat and partly Xenoestrogen and exposure to Cadmium; Cadmium also creates problems with the 5-Alphareductase where it converts too much Testosterone to Dihydrotestosterone, and in that situation, you get like a beer belly in the blokes and a pot belly in the girls.

Jeff: See, this is what I’m thinking with regards to the ALPHA MARS, if there is any one product, for me personally, and that I get feedback on where people notice the difference quickly, it’s normally that one.

Matt: Yeah.  It’s just hard to say because we can’t see Brendon, like literally see him, it’s a piece of paper with writing on it, so I can’t see him.  So, we don’t know where the weight is being held but depending on where you hold the weight will help to refine your Protocol.

The next thing we need to do is to look at those things we just discussed; if you are on a campaign to Burn Fat are you trying to improve your Performance at the same time as you’re trying to change your Weight.  You may want to talk to your Dietician about prioritising the Fat Loss first, because you may be on a Protocol where the Dietician is trying to make sure that your Macro Nutrients are capable of you being a competitive cyclist, which would be totally different.  Because, if you’re fuelling Performance and Endurance then you’re not going to be getting adequate Fat Loss.  So, you would change your Macro Nutrient Profile for a short period of time to force Fat Loss, and in this situation actually a campaign of a lower Carb, higher Fat strategy, like we were talking about before, would create more Mitochondrial density and that would make leaner more efficient Muscle and would stimulate the Fat Loss.  Then, what you do is you go back to the normal Diet and you will perform better.

So, it’s more about looking at where your body is holding the Fat to see if we can tailor make a Protocol with the supplements, because whether you’re on T432, MARS, PRIME, CORT RX, would purely depend on where you hold the Fat, and at this stage I don’t know, but we might need to cut out the MARS and up the PRIME and VENUS sort of thing.  You might have an Estrogen Dominance issue, you might have a Dihydrotestosterone issue because of the Cadmium exposure, but until we know where you hold the Fat we don’t know.

MULTIFOOD would be a very important thing we could add in, but I was reluctant to suggest that we add something else in because the AMP V –

Jeff: I was thinking of that too.

Matt: The AMP V and the MULTIFOOD, and then change your Protocol with your Dietician to focus on a short period of Fat Loss with cutting back on the Carbs for training and increasing the Fat to induce the structural change.  I would do that, and then go back to what will maintain –  because, you’re obviously on a perfect Macro Nutrient and training Protocol for maintenance, which is why you’re not changing.

Jeff: Yeah.  So, Matt, in terms of the supplementation side of things, and I think it’s a great idea that he’s going to see a Sports Dietician to help him with his food.

Matt: Mm.


Jeff: If he goes off everything that he’s got at the moment, but we give him a MULTIFOOD, we give him an AMP to use before training as well, because that might not just help with Fat Loss but that’s hopefully going to improve his Performance as well.

Matt: Well, there’s nothing in there that’s going to be stopping it.

Jeff: Detrimental.  Because, they’re not Hormonal.

Matt: They’re not going to be making it worse, it’s just that there are other things that are keeping him the same.

Jeff: Right.

Matt: So, I think we need to make significant changes to the Macro Nutrient strategy to force the change.

Jeff: Yeah.

Matt: And, that whole low Carb, high Fat thing – there are Protocols out there specifically for cyclists for that exact purpose.  They get the Fat Loss and the Mitochondrial density, and then when they put the Carbs back in they Perform significantly better.

Jeff: So, the advice as far the supplementation, Matt, just take MULTIFOOD, AMP, CORT RX?

Matt: Take MULTIFOOD, AMP, CORT RX and PRIME, but PRIME x 2 before bed, and CORT RX 3 per day, that seems to be working for him, and then take the MULTI and the AMP, and you could take the Tt432 1 – 3 times a day, but that’s only if you’ve got Insulin issues, Thyroid issues, your Metabolism is slow because of those sorts of things.  So, they’re the main ones.

Jeff: Okay.

Matt: But, I think you need to freak the body out, you just need to create change with a dynamic shift.

Jeff: And, with the Xenoestrogens the PRIME because it’s got the Broccoli should definitely help.

Matt: And, extra Zinc and Selenium, but that’s in the MULTIFOOD.

Jeff: And, you could throw down some Brazil Nuts as well on top.

Matt: Yeah, of course.

Jeff: Anyway, Brendon, let us know how you go, and if you want to drop us a line and let us know where you’re holding the weight so that way we can email you back privately.  But, we’ll send you out the MULTIFOOD, the AMP V, the CORT RX and the PRIME for you to give it a try.  Maybe give the other products a break for a little bit of time.  Work with your coach and see if there’s anything he can do on the Macro Nutrient level and then give us a yell and let us know how you get on.

Matt: Cool.

Jeff: [00:56:00]

Alright, Matt, this one is from Vashti-

“Hi Matt and Jeff, thank you so much for your previous help with my father.

I remember Vashti, it was a while ago.

“He has steadied out and has done well.  I’ve mentioned it to a few of my older PT clients and three have been trying the ALPHA MARS now and are very happy with its effects.

            I’ve been sitting on this question about myself for over a year now, I haven’t wanted to bother you with trivial questions and I’ve tried to answer it for myself, but I keep coming up short.

            I’m a 45-year-old PT.  I’m fit, I eat a fairly balanced Diet, I tend to hover around 18% Body Fat and have good Energy for regular Running, Yoga, and Weights.  I competed in a couple of bodybuilding titles, Bikini, a couple of years ago, and won.

Matt: Yay.

“I’m very keen to continue to do more of this.  I love representing the older woman and show others that age is irrelevant and you can look fit and attractive and healthy at every age.

That’s awesome, I love that.


“My problem is fairly large and I apologise for this in advance.

            Three years ago, I suffered a very traumatic event and have developed PTSD from it.  I have been struggling to cope with the emotional fallout since then and have tried everything I have felt capable of to deal with this.  The trouble is, unfortunately, I have to confront bigger Triggers every fortnight, which I am gradually becoming better at coping with and am not totally wrecked by.

            I also have no choice, unfortunately, and must go through this fortnightly.  There are also little Triggers that can hit me by surprise daily sometimes.  As a result, I’m on Antidepressants, and I have changed recently to Desvenlafaxine 100 milligrams.”

Matt, I’m not sure what that is.

“I’m never really sure what I am meant to feel from that.  I don’t seem to be one that has a fabulous overnight fix.  I feel the same but a little bit more vague.  Anyhow, I do know that these can have effects on how I tolerate Sugar, so I’m tempted to get off them, plus I dislike the vagueness.

            Slightly, since the initial event, my body has gained a lot of Fat and I have zero Energy for anything after 12.  I wake up in the morning feeling good most of the time.  I do a little Fasted Cardio, but actually not much anymore.  I have no motivation.  However, if I don’t get a workout done before 12 it rarely happens because I just crawl through the afternoon waiting for bedtime.  I have no Energy and just can’t think straight and often get quite down, and that gets worse until I wake up the next day and feel more positive again.

            I realise Stress has a huge effect on the body and how it deals with how it processes food.  I take Melatonin every night and three months ago I started taking Phenibut.  I sleep quite well with those.  I was taking DIM as I thought that was the right thing, but after listening to your last few Podcasts related to DIM I have now dropped it.  The last time I dropped it I broke out in thick cystic like Acne.

Funny, Matt.  There you go.

“That was last year, and I panicked and went back on again.  I take Vitex every morning and this has taken my Period from a regular 35-day cycle back to a 28 day one.  I used to have massive pain pre-Period but since taking it I generally don’t get too much, just a dull ache on the first day.

            I take Fish Oil, Alpha Lipoic Acid, Zinc, Creatine, Glutamine and Acetyl L-Carnitine as well; I’m a supplement junkie.

            I had my Hormones checked a few months ago and everything seems fine, but they didn’t do Estrogen for some reason.  My morning Serum Cortisol was a little on the high side but I think without the other values for the rest of the day it’s a bit tricky to tell.  My SHBG is 139 which is higher than the top, 90 mmol level, and I’m not on any Contraceptive Pill by the way.  My FAI is lowish at 1.1%, the range indicates 1.5 as the lower end.


I worked out my Free Testosterone is only .635 and Bioavailable Testosterone is 12.6%.  I’m not sure what that means or if it means anything to you.  My blood panels for the rest were very normal apart from Transferrin Saturation being a few percentage higher than the range.

            I hope something in here rings a bell for you.  I hate my body right now and it’s just getting worse.  My Cellulite is growing, my Fat is a little more on the Thighs but Abs and Arms, and I’m not putting on Muscle as easy as I used to and it takes a very long time for sore Muscles to go away.  It doesn’t matter how long I rest for the Muscle stays sore.  I do stretch and roll them as well.

            I’m just tired of it all, I lack Energy, lack Pain Free Muscles, an overabundance of Fat.  Am I Peri Menopausal or not?  My mother went through Menopause at 50, so I fluctuate between ALPHA VENUS and ALPHA PRIME and then MARS.  I think of maybe the creams but then which ones should I use?  I’m hoping you guys can provide a little ray of sunshine, no pressure of course.

I value your opinion and find my morning exercise so much easier listening to the fun and banter between you both.

Thank you very much, your fan Vashti.”

That’s a big one.  Well, thanks Vashti, and I do remember your last email.

Matt: It’s a good one too.

Jeff: I just have to say, off the bat, as well, it sounds like you’re seeking professional help for Depression.  It is incredibly important if anybody is suffering from Depression that you go and seek medical advice for it because it’s amazing what those guys can do in the short term to get you feeling right again.

Matt, I just had to put that in.

Matt: Yeah.  Nothing we can say is going to take place of a face to face consult or a psychology session and that sort of stuff.

Jeff: Absolutely.

Matt: I’ll tell you a trick, man.  One thing I used to do in my clinic, and I love it and it works really well, regarding Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.  You can do this with your medical professionals or your friends and family, I don’t really care.  But, you know this fortnightly crap you’re going through, you’ve got to confront this thing every fortnight, whatever it is, and it’s horrible sounding. What you want to do, when you explain this to psychologists or your friends and that, lying down on a couch and that does actually work, it’s really handy to do that.  And, when you’re talking about it imagine it as a movie on a movie screen.  So, you imagine this scenario where you’re a character, the other people are characters, and you imagine you’re at the movies on a massive big screen.  You’re lying down and you’re looking up at this giant screen.  So, when you’re explaining the issue and the confrontation that you’re having imagine it like that.

Then, what we want to do, is we want to create solutions for this problem.  What I want you to do when you’re talking to someone about this I want you to take this movie screen and take it down onto a mobile phone screen, I want you to imagine looking down at this little tiny mobile phone screen.  It’s no longer this big overwhelming thing that’s bigger than you.  It’s not this little thing that you’re holding in the palm of your hands and you have control over.


And, what we’re going to do there is we’re going to talk about solutions to this problem:  how you’re going to handle it, what your expectations are, and what you’re expecting to happen, and what your body is going to do in response to those things.

The actual process of taking something from so big and so overwhelming that it’s out of your control, such as a movie screen, down to a mobile phone screen which you can hold in your hands, you can close, you can turn off, you can throw away, you can shrink the screen, zoom in, all those little things.  You have control over that and that is your power, and you are going to turn up to this thing anyway, you’ve already made that choice.

Fear and Anxiety and Post Traumatic Stress are signs of Strength, not a sign of Weakness, because if you did not have everything you needed to punch something and run you would die.  So, the people who don’t have Anxiety, the people who don’t have Paranoia, the people who don’t have Post Traumatic Stress after traumatic events – you’re just a good cave woman, you would have been the perfect cave person.  You’re designed to handle life-threatening Stress.

The problem is, your body, because of this Post Traumatic Stress, does not wait to see if your Stress is life threatening or not.  So, in response to little Stresses your body will over secrete everything it needs for you to punch and run.  And, this is the problem.  Normally you’ll wake up in the morning and get exposure to sunlight and you’ll wake up, and normally we get a certain amount of Cortisol that comes out to wake us up.  Because you have had such high exposure to Cortisol in the past you are Resistant to normal levels of Cortisol, so your body over secretes Cortisol just to wake you up.  The problem is, that’s exhausting, you can’t do that, and it’s run out by midday, which is why you’re tired.

The problem is, when you train in the morning you then spike Cortisol further, so you’re getting a double whammy of Cortisol, which makes it really hard to Burn Fat and Build Muscle when you’re training with high Cortisol.  So, you need to protect yourself from that high Cortisol because you can’t stop your body from releasing it because it’s doing whatever you need to do to survive.

So, for you, things like CLA, Magnesium and Potassium are extremely important for you because we need to buffer Acidity, we need to stop Cortisol release.  And, the other one is MULTIFOOD.  I was looking through here, and you mentioned a few other things, but first of all we’ve got to get this Cortisol under control.  So, what I’d do for you is CORT RX, and the way you do CORT RX for you is 1 for breakfast, lunch and dinner.  You’re going to be fine at the end of the day.  So, 1 three times a day to keep that Cortisol from being over secreted in response to Stress.  Heaps of Magnesium and Potassium, take the MULTIFOOD because you’re going to be depleting all of these Nutrients.  Now, taking extra Nutrients isn’t necessarily going to do more, but you’ll be depleting this stuff because everything you’re doing is running three times too fast, that’s why everything runs out.


Before I forget, the fact that you stopped DIM and the cystic Acne flared up is proof and confirmation of exactly what we’re saying, that DIM is an Antiandrogen, DIM is used to block Testosterone, and the whole time you were on the DIM you weren’t fixing any Testosterone problems, you were just blocking the Testosterone effects at the Cell, which is why you weren’t getting Acne and when you stopped it the Acne came back.

Jeff: It’s amazing, isn’t it?

Matt: You wait and see, you’ll build more Muscle now you’re off DIM too.

So, they’re the main things but that strategy with desensitising yourself to Stress definitely try it.  It’s not an easy thing to do if you’re not one of those people who can imagine things and meditate, but that’s why it’s good to do it with a friend or a psychologist or someone, and they don’t even have to know what you’re doing.

Jeff: And, right at the end there, “Am I Peri Menopausal or not?  My mother went through Menopause, so I fluctuate between ALPHA VENUS and ALPHA PRIME and then MARS.”  That could be causing some problems as well, if she’s taking MARS when she shouldn’t.

Matt: That’s tricky. The answer to your question, yeah, probably because everyone gets to a Perimenopausal phase mid-30s, the process of the Period stopping is what we say is Menopause, but it’s all the stuff around that, that you will be going through.  So, what happens in Perimenopausal phases is, your Ovaries aren’t as efficient in responding to the Hormones as they were and it requires a lot from your Adrenals.  So, the problem with Vashti is her Adrenals are so busy making Cortisol and struggling to make enough Cortisol to last her for a day, so there is not enough Cortisol left in her Adrenals to be used to make things like DHEA, Pregnenolone, Progesterone, Testosterone, and Estrogen.

What actually happens in Menopause is the Ovaries run out of puff and the Adrenals take over the Hormone production.  But, her Adrenals are too busy dealing with Stress, they’re not going to deal with this other stuff.  So, periodically, what will happen is, if the Ovaries have a crappy month for whatever reason normally the Adrenals would pick up the slack, but in her case they’re not.  So, it’s a little bit harder to predict her Hormones because she doesn’t have that backup supply of Hormones to fill in the gaps when Deficient.

So yeah, she will be Perimenopausal, and yes, you will be hovering between VENUS, PRIME and MARS depending on the cycle, but for you, man it is so bloody hard to know which one to use.

Jeff: What to do then?

Matt: Yeah.  So, what to do?  If it was me, I would actually take VENUS.

Jeff: Right.

Matt: The reason why is because VENUS is the best balancer.  VENUS has the Vitex for the Progesterone production, it’s got all the Estrogen Detoxifying compounds to make sure you don’t get excessive Toxic Estrogens.  And, because VENUS builds Progesterone, and Progesterone is one of the master Androgens, from Progesterone our body will actually make Testosterone and Estrogen.  So, I would do the VENUS, CORT RX and MULTIFOOD.


Jeff: Okay. Cool.  So, lay off the PRIME and lay off the MARS for the moment, Vashti.  I’ll send you out an AMP, MULTIFOOD, CORT RX, and a VENUS.

Matt: See, if I was in a clinic with Vashti, and every time Vashti would come back I’d probably go, “Okay, you need MARS, you need PRIME, you need VENUS.  I’d be able to adjust and change based on the symptom picture, but for us, giving generic advice, if I was to pick one out of those three it would be VENUS.

Jeff: Right.  Matt, we’ve run out of time.  We’ve still got some more questions to go through, but unfortunately, we just don’t have time to get through them, so we’re going to go for them next week.

Matt: Oh, too bad.

Jeff: I know, I’m sorry.

Matt: Like this person here, Pain and they’ve got acute Diarrhoea, maybe they’ll die.  Shit, you’ll be right.  Wait a week.

Jeff: Stop making me – the doctor said, I’ve got six days to live.

Matt: See you next week.

Jeff: We’ll be back next week.

Matt, last word for the day?

Matt: Hooroo.

Jeff: Hooroo.  That’s a great word, I love it.  Thanks guys for listening and we’ll be back next week with some more.  Take care.