In today’s podcast Matt, Steve and I discuss ATP Science product T432. Matt explain why he created the product and how it works, including the five ways it can help deal with unwanted Fat Tissue.

We are very proud that this year T432 won the award for Fat Burner of the Year at the Arnold Classic Multisport Festival in Melbourne, Australia.
**This information is not designed to diagnose, treat, prevent, or cure any condition and is for information purposes only. Please discuss any information in this podcast with your health care professional before making any changes to your current lifestyle**

Jeff:Guys, today we’re talking about T432. This is the first of our Product Podcasts, so it’s not a typical format, but we’ve got a lot of people who are using our product who have asked for some in-depth understanding of the product, why we created it, what its used for, how to use it, and what the ingredients are.
So, Matt, let’s jump straight into it. T432. Why did we create it?

Matt:The reason we created T432 capsules was basically because you gave me the brief of creating a Fat Burning product. We realised that everyone was making Pre-workout stimulants and loading up on Carnitine with the assumption or plan to do all your Fat Burning while you’re at the gym, but you do the majority of your Fat Burning throughout the 24 hours of the day, 7 days a week. It’s not actually the gym, the gym is there to deplete Nutrients and exhaust ourselves and boost our Metabolic Rate and we Burn Fat the rest of the time. So, we ended up making a product that works 24 hours a day to boost your Metabolic Rate and put you into the ideal Hormonal Profile where you’re capable of Burning of Fat.
What we did was, we created a product that works on four main pillars, which is making sure the Thyroid is capable of working effectively, making sure the Insulin is capable of working effectively, and also, controlling Appetite and Satiety, and the last thing was trying to break the vicious cycle of Obesity where the Obesity itself keeps Obesity occurring through a combination of things like Adipokines, which are chemicals that come out of Fat Cells that create a Hormonal nightmare that will keep you Fat.

Jeff:Our products, as per usual, are very interesting, and when we are trying to name the products it can actually almost be a little low. T432 just talks about the Thyroid, and I’ll get you to explain that in a minute, but this product doesn’t just work on the Thyroid, in fact some of the other things that you’ve mentioned in podcasts, I was thinking, “My gosh, the T432 is going to be fantastic because it’s got the Cinnamon, or because it’s got the Campherol. We’ll get into the individual ingredients and we can talk about why we put them in. But, Matt, T432, if you could say a couple of things. Why did we call it T432, and what is the link with the Thyroid, which I think a lot of people who are familiar with our products might know, but let’s just recap it. And also, we can break down what else it is really good for in the body.

Matt:Excellent. So, if you look at the Thyroid, the Thyroid is your pacemaker for your body, it will determine how fast your Metabolic Rate is running, and it will generate heat by Burning Fat. There are a whole heap of symptoms that you can see with Thyroid problems, and a lot of people have done their own research and they suspect they may have Thyroid problems and they go and get blood tests and the doctors say, “No, your Thyroid is fine, it’s within the range,” but they’ve so obviously got Thyroid issues.
Why these things slip through the cracks all the time is because, the way it actually works is, your Brain releases a chemical called TSH, Thyroid Stimulating Hormone, that tells your Thyroid Gland to release T4. T4 is more active in your body when converted to T3, so T3 is somewhere between 7 to 10 times more active, as a Fat Burner, than T4 is.

Jeff:What do T4 and T3 actively do in the body?

Matt:What they do is, they increase a compound inside out Cells called Cyclic AMP, which is an on switch, and it speeds up the Metabolic Rate of that Cell, so depending on what that Cell is, it will cause it to work faster. So, the symptoms of a Fast Thyroid, for example, would be excessive Heat Generation, excessive Sweat, excessive Digestive Juices, Faster Transit Time, a Racing Heart, and all that sort of stuff, Nervous Energy. The symptoms of a Sluggish Thyroid are, Sensitivity to Cold, Bloating, a slower Digestive Tract, Constipation, a tendency to Dry Hair, Skin and Nails. Also, you get Lack of Development, so you get weak Fingernails, you lose the outside third of your Eyebrow, your Hair goes thin and weak, and basically, no matter what you do with regards to Calories in and Calories out, and Energy Expenditure, your Thyroid is preserving Fat and it will not let you Burn it.
So, what we need to do is we need to do is to get your Thyroid Gland to release T4, convert that T4 through to T3. T3, like I was saying, is about 7 to 10 times more effective than T4 and more active than T4 for all these things, for speeding up your Metabolic Rate, making things run faster. Then, T3 within the Mitochondria converts to T2, and T2 is the most potent Thermogenic, that’s the one that really drives the Heat, it gets you Burning and converting Fat to generate Heat.

Jeff:And, that’s so many times more powerful than T3.

Matt:That’s right. I don’t know how many more.

Jeff:I forget too.

Matt:What our big plan is, this is the catch – there are a lot of people out there who might have suspected they had Thyroid problems but have been told they don’t based on a blood test that measured TSH alone. T4 has the ability to convert down a different Pathway and make stuff called Reverse T3. Where I said T3 has 7 to 10 times the activity of T4, Reverse T3 has about one hundredth of the activity of T4, but it so closely resembles T3 that it binds into all the same Receptors, occupies all the T3 Receptors and has the opposite effect.
What it also does is, it has a very good affinity with the Pituitary Gland, meaning that when you’ve got a lot of Reverse T3 your Pituitary Gland thinks your Thyroid is running really fast. Your Pituitary Gland cops all of this T3 bound into the T3 Receptors and thinks your Thyroid Gland is running really fast, and it sends a message saying, “Your Thyroid is going too fast, you do not need any more TSH.”


Matt:So, when the doctors are measuring TSH and maybe T4 – usually they measure TSH first. If TSH shows outside the range, which is High TSH means you’ve got a Slow Thyroid and Low TSH means you’ve got a Fast Thyroid. If it shows out of range then they will test other Thyroid Hormones. But, if you’ve got a problem with Reverse T3 more commonly what will happen is, your TSH will be fine, within the range, and if anything, Low suggesting your Thyroid is going too Fast. Your T4 will be find within the range and they won’t measure anything else. But, you may have a sluggish Metabolism, Bloating, a slow Digestive Tract, you might have Heavy Periods, sore Boobs – even the women might get that.


Matt:Your Hair might fall out, all those things. You may have all the symptoms. You may be Cold. You might want to measure your Body Temperature because you can measure your Basal Body Temperature and get an idea of what your Metabolic Rate is.

Jeff:What should your Temperature be?

Matt:Should be 36.8. On the scales, most people sit around 37 is what they’re looking for.
You can monitor your Body Temperature and assess how your Thyroid Gland picks up in and out of the window. The cool thing is, it’s doing that by generating Heat from the Burning of Fat. That’s why the Thyroid Gland is so important.
We’ll talk about the intricacies in the formula, and there are quite a few ingredients that we’ll run through that work on the Thyroid Gland and the Thyroid Hormone Conversion Pathways themselves. But, a lot of the formula is looking at the other factors that work on the handbrakes on Fat Loss. With Fat Loss and with Metabolism it’s not always about push, push, push. There are only so many Stimulants you can take, there’s only so much Calorie restriction, and so much Exercise you can do, before your body adapts to that pushing and pulls the handbrake on.
What we need to do is look at the body and find out what potential handbrakes are in the way.
What I mean by that is, things that actually inhibit Thyroid Hormone Function, things that inhibit Thyroid Hormone Conversion are also things that you need to take into consideration when making a product to support healthy Thyroid Hormone Activity. Those things include Estrogen Dominance, so we need to look after Estrogen. They include Cortisol and Stress, Inflammation, and with Inflammation particularly these things called Cytokines that are chemical messengers coming from Immune Activity. But, what I believe is even more of a concern in this situation are things called Adipokines, which are very similar chemicals, but instead of being released from Immune Cells they’re being released from Fat Cells. What I’m saying here is, Fat Cells aren’t dead just holding Energy, these are alive organs. By the time someone’s Body Fat percentage goes from 20% to 30% to 40%, imagine having an Endocrine Gland or an organ in your body that is 40% of your body weight pumping out chemicals. It would be pretty powerful.


Matt:This is why Obesity creates Obesity, you get stuck in that vicious cycle. If we don’t take into consideration that Adipokines are creating a vicious cycle and start addressing those then we’re stuck and nothing really works. So, we’ll look at all those sorts of things as well.

Jeff:Mm. Excellent.

Matt:Steve, sorry I just waffled right through there.

Steve:No, Matt it’s good.

Jeff:No, that was excellent. There wasn’t a lot to talk about because you were covering everything off really beautifully.
So, in terms of part of a Thyroid Function, is there anything else that we want to mention about the Thyroid? For my understanding is, the Thyroid is incredibly important for upregulating Cyclic AMP, which is beneficial for the Metabolism, it helps you have a normal Metabolism to Burn Fat, to Burn Energy for fuel, of which, obviously, Fat is going to be a large component. There can be a huge issue with regards to the Hormones coming from the TSH that can convert down the wrong Pathway or into an inactive form of Reverse T3. This product is designed, in part, to help to stop that from happening and get it down to the most active Pathway which is T2, which is basically like your Red Rocket. I think, Matt, if I remember correctly, it was somewhere around 100 times more powerful than T3.

Matt:Yeah, I can’t remember either.

Steve:It is about that, and it’s in very small amounts in the body. When I used to teach about Thyroid to the students it was the most complex two days that I ever experienced because there are so many factors. You mentioned the Hormones; I don’t know how many patients I had, “Oh, my Thyroid is fine, my doctor said so,” and I’d say, “Bring in your results,” and they’d just measured TSH, but TSH is not even a Thyroid Hormone, it’s a Pituitary Hormone. So, it’s like measuring the size of the riding whip for a horse to see how fast the horse is. That’s a joke, because Matt, I said a riding crop and he didn’t know what a crop was, so I thought I better –


Jeff:I love analogies like that. For simple people like me who don’t have the science degrees that you guys have it helps a lot.

Steve:Well, I’m from Melbourne so, you know, riding is my –

Jeff:That’s your excuse.[00:12:00]

Steve:So, that’s one conflict. The second thing is, even if you go and measure T4 and T3 you’ve got to measure the right forms of T4 and T3, because there are T4 and T3 and then there’s Free T4 and Free T3 that are actually Bioactive. Most doctors just measure T4 and T3, but half of it could be bound with Binding Globulin and it’s inactive. So, you could get this great result that could be crap. But, these people are feeling crap and they’ve got all the symptoms and yet the blood results look great.
The third thing is, let’s say they measure the Free T3, Free T4 and do all the right blood tests, and you still feel like crap, it could be the second messenger inside the Cell that Matt talked about which is Cyclic AMP, Adenosine Monophosphate. What that does, and I’ll give you an analogy; let’s say you ring a doorbell, you push the bell and the cable has been broken so the bell doesn’t ring; the Cyclic AMP is the cable, so it doesn’t get the message through to the Genes to switch on and rev up. So, if you haven’t got that going you could have all the Thyroid in the world but your Thyroid levels will be quite low, your activity would be low, your levels in the blood will fine, but it depends if your doctor treats your numbers or they treat the person, and I’m always a big fan of looking at the person. So, even if you said, “I’ve got all these symptoms of Low Thyroid,” and Matt mentioned them all, “but my doctor said my Thyroid – but, look into it, there’s more to it than that, it’s very tricky, it’s a tough one to teach when I teach the students.

Matt:And, we cheated, eh? Just while you’re talking about Cyclic AMP, when we made T432 we knew that to be able to Stimulate a Fast Metabolic Rate the Thyroid Gland does via Cyclic AMP. In the situation where the second messenger is broken and the Thyroid is not capable of the Receptor stimulating it, we use Forskolin. Our product has Forskolin and De Jong which are two Herbs that directly stimulate Cyclic AMP production.
Even while we’re waiting to fix the Thyroid issue we go directly to stimulate Cyclic AMP with that, and that’s the Forskolin.

Jeff:The Forskolin. These are pretty cool compounds, Matt. Are there any other functions that these things have?

Matt:Forskolin is a really cool compound, it’s a natural thing, it comes from Coleus Forskohlii. It is what’s through all the medical journals as the control for Cyclic AMP. So, they basically say, “We know the best and most consistent thing that exists for Cyclic AMP is Forskolin. So, with everything else they try to do to increase or decrease Cyclic AMP Forskolin is used within that trial. It is a standard thing within the scientific community that Forskolin is the most consistent Activator of Cyclic AMP.
Just while we’re talking about it, the challenge is, if you increase Cyclic AMP too much in the Digestive Tract you’ll get the runs because it mimics Thyroid Hormone in the Digestive Tract. So, you can only take so much Forskolin orally before you get the green apple splatters. So, this is the problem, and I know it’s a different product –

Jeff:I was about to mention that.

Matt:We have a transdermal product that targets Subcutaneous Fat, and the main ingredient in that is Forskolin, because we know if we need to get to Subcutaneous Fat the dose we would need to use orally to saturate Subcutaneous Fat enough to induce Cyclic AMP you’d rip them inside out. So, we need to go with Forskolin directly through the skin.
And, just while we’re talking about Cyclic AMP, if you don’t mind, what the body uses to clear away the Cyclic AMP is a group of Enzymes called Phosphodiesterase type 2, and that’s how Caffeine works. One of the ways Caffeine works is by inhibiting Phosphodiesterase type 2 and that preserves Cyclic AMP.
So, in our product we put De Jong and Forskolin to directly stimulate Cyclic AMP mimicking Thyroid Hormone –

Jeff:And, this is T432 you’re talking about?

Matt:Yeah, this is T432 Plus. And, what we also combine with it is, Yerba Mate and Guarana to inhibit the Phosphodiesterase Enzymes and preserve the Cyclic AMP.
So, other than a Thyroid Hormone, the other way to induce Cyclic AMP is with such things as Catecholamines or by interacting with Beta Adreno Receptors. So again, the Caffeine, the Yerba Mate, the De Jong directly are what we call Beta Agonists, where they drive the Beta Receptors that normally would pick up on things like Adrenaline and Noradrenaline to make Cyclic AMP. We’ve got Forskolin and De Jong sneaking in the side to directly stimulate Cyclic AMP, and then we have the Yerba Mate and Guarana preserving the Cyclic AMP by inhibiting the Phosphodiesterase Enzymes. So, that’s a nice strategic trap to build up a shit load of Cyclic AMP.


Matt:Cool eh?

Jeff:It is. And, no wonder the product just recently at the Arnolds down in Melbourne won Fat Burner of the year. It’s interesting, it’s a formula we’ve had out now for about four years, and it’s so smart. The way that it works is it’s not just hitting on one target area.

Matt:Well, we’re still learning more, eh?

Jeff:There are some things we’ve learnt as well.

Matt:I’ll tell you some tricks. With the product again, we’re going to make sure your body is capable of making Thyroid Hormone, and that’s made of Tyrosine, Iodine, Zinc, Selenium, they’re the main ones. So, we put those in the product just in case you’re not getting them through your Diet, and then what we’ve done is we’ve supported the Enzymes that convert T4 to T3, these Type 1 and Type 2 Deiodinases – Stevo knows how to say these things because he’s a presenter, but I read everything and then I’m on a podcast and all of a sudden try to say these things out loud for the first time.

Jeff:It just strips an Iodine of them, so it’s Deiodinase.

Matt:That’s right, so it takes away an Iodine, Deiodinase, yeah.

Steve:So, you’re getting T4 to T3 to T2, it’s just an Iodine.

Matt:Just by removing an Iodine.


Matt:Then, the Campherol naringen in the Pomegranate Peel, that’s the one the stimulates the Enzymes to convert T3 to T2, so we’ve got the good conversions.
Then, the key to stopping Reverse T3 is to make sure we’ve got adequate Zinc and Selenium for those Enzymes to function properly, but then, taking the other things out of the picture, and that’s where the rest of the formula starts to make sense.

Jeff:Okay. Well, let’s get into that.

Matt:The other things I’ll talk about, and I’ll skip to the Adipokines, because Adipokines and Cytokines are possibly the most influential things, because if you think about Gut Health, if you think about Microflora, Microbiome, you think about food Allergies and Intolerances, constant Allergies, Colds, Flus, that’s your Immune System releasing chemicals telling your body there is something not quite right. But, your body can’t afford to wait to see if it’s an Infection, Allergy or Poison or a dead bug, it does the same thing every time. So, it releases these Inflammatory Markers called Cytokines. At the same time your Fat Cells are making almost exactly the same sort of chemicals, so your Fat Cells are pumping out Inflammatory chemicals.
What these Inflammatory chemicals are doing is, they’re triggering Insulin Resistance, they’re upregulating things like Aromatase to make more Estrogen and creating Estrogen Dominance. They’re also creating other biochemical traps that create more Fat Cells. So, what ends up happening is Obesity itself builds so many Fat Cells that are pumping out so many chemicals that are working in that very same Fat Cell or the neighbouring Fat Cell, or overflowing to places like the Liver, where we have most of the conversion occurring, and causing all these problems converting T4 to T3. The end result is we get a build-up of Reverse T3 and we’re stuck in a vicious cycle where we have Fat making Fat. It’s a crazy situation and we need to block that.
So again, the Herb De Jong, a very powerful Herb, very good at blocking Adipokines. A lot of other anti-Inflammatories are, but that one there has been specifically studied and shown to be the most effective one at taking Inflammation out of Fat. And, that’s amazing for things like Estrogen Dominance and other Inflammatory processes that screw up this whole pathway.
For example; the male Liver is 7 to 8 times more effective than the female Liver at converting T4 to T3 purely because of the amount of Testosterone that a male has compared to the female. So, when you have a look at the vicious cycle that creates excessive amounts of Estrogen out of Fat that alone can be creating the vicious cycle that’s keeping your Thyroid with the handbrake on it.
More often than not, in the clinic, you’ll see people who have problems with their Thyroid that’s got a handbrake on it, it’s not screwed, it’s not damaged, it’s not stuffed, it’s just got too many handbrakes slowing it down, and that’s what we’re trying to remove.

Steve:That’s it. We know that women get more Thyroid disorders, and now we know why, it’s because of the Liver actions of Testosterone. Women have less Testosterone naturally than men so they suffer more problems. Normally the Progesterone upregulates that, but that may not be enough, so there are lots of problems there.
The beautiful thing about the Thyroid is the complexity of it, it’s the fact that you need all these things working. Let’s say the doctor has diagnosed you with Low Thyroid, and you get given Thyroxine, or Oroxine is the drug name, but that’s just T4, and look what Matt just said.

Jeff:That’s right.

Steve:“What happens to that T4?” “I don’t know.” It’s got an incredibly slow action, it’s got a half-life of six days. Can you believe that? A drug that takes six days to Detoxify, so it slowly just ambles around the system. T4 is virtually inactive, it really doesn’t do much, it’s one tenth the activity or one seventh of T3. “Does it go to T3?” “I don’t know, we’ll just give T4.”
In America, they actually give usually a Porcine, or a pig Thyroid concentrate which has T4 and T3 and people get vastly better results on that. But, in Australia we seem to have this weird crazy idea that T4 is enough.

Matt:I’ll tell you another interesting thing that you might see, not in a Naturopathic Clinic, but more outside of the Naturopath Clinic, because there are a lot of people in Australia who will also use T3 specifically for Fat Burning, and I’m not talking about people with Thyroid problems, I’m talking people with metabolic issues. And, they’ll load up on T3, and the problem with that is, because T3, in your body, is normally made from T4, which comes from your Thyroid, when you use T3 the negative feedback goes and says, “Don’t make anymore,” but then the body is going, “Too late, it’s already here, I don’t know where it’s come from,” so it says, “Well, we can block it with Reverse T3.”
So, what happens is, the body then goes, “Okay, well let’s shunt all the T4 down to Reverse T3 to offset the T3 –

Jeff:And, it blocks the Receptors.

Matt:The doses that I would see someone with a Thyroid issue taking T3 in my Naturopath clinic was significantly less than someone without a Thyroid issue who was taking T3 at the gym.

Jeff:A bodybuilder or a bikini –

Matt:Yeah, exactly. What was happening in them, because they still had a Thyroid Gland functioning the Thyroid Gland was compensating by releasing more T4 as a substrate to make Reverse T3 to offset for the overdose of T3, which is why their heart wasn’t popping out of their chest, because their body had compensated and adapted to slow it back down.

Jeff:That’s awesome.

Matt:Then, the problem is, some people will come out of that and say, “I’ve got Metabolic damage,” but they may have actually created a Pathway where their Reverse T3 Pathways are upregulated and their body takes a period of time to reset.
Now, if someone is using T3 or T4, and they are capable of using this product, they need to do it with their doctor and with their pharmacist, they can go to our webpage and we’ve got a Body Temperature chart there and they can use that to measure their Basal Body Temperature, and we’ve also got a symptom picture questionnaire that will list of the symptoms of Low Thyroid and High Thyroid. So, they can monitor themselves and then they can use our product, with the supervision of their doctors, to just tweak it a little bit.
The challenge, and you would have seen it in your clinic, an average for T4 might be 100micrograms.


Matt:The next dose up is 150micrograms.

Jeff:A big jump.

Matt:So, they’re doing 30% jumps and 50% jumps, they’re massive jumps. The ideal dose for a person on one day might be 110, the next day it might be 140, but they’re thinking, “Alright, we’ll go 100 every day and then a couple of times a week we’ll screw with you and throw in a 150 knowing that we’ve got a six-day half-life and it will hopefully even out, and your body is capable of just shifting stuff around, and we don’t really know what’s going on anyway, so let’s have a crack.”
So, what it means is, most people end up on a 100micrograms and then they can use the T432 Plus, one or two or three or four, depending on their Body Temperature, depending on their symptom picture, they can increase or decrease their dose of T432 Plus to keep them within the right Therapeutic Thyroid window. And, that right Therapeutic Thyroid window will be symptom free of the Thyroid symptoms and their Body Temperature will sit around 36.8. Easy huh?


Steve:That’s easy.

Jeff:Such a massive aspect of it, I guess, is the Thyroid, and there are so many complexities there. I was going to ask you, Steve, do you know what the incidence of Thyroid Dysfunction is within the Western population?

Steve:About 25%.


Steve:But, then you’ve got this other category called Subclinical Hypothyroidism, which means their numbers are okay but their symptoms are bad. And, then you’ve got Comorbidities, like people who have Low Thyroid are also Depressed. So, do they have a Prozac Deficiency or a Thyroid Deficiency? Do you know what I mean?

Jeff:Of course.

Steve:So, they’re usually treated with anti-Depressants, so SSRI or Prozac, those sorts of things are given out. Also, these Herbs are absolutely – you talked about PD2 and all this sort of thing, but PD5 Inhibitors are one of the biggest selling drugs in Australia.

Jeff:What’s a PD5?

Matt:Making me hard just thinking about it.


Steve:A PD5 Inhibitor is like Viagra.

Jeff:Oh. See, that’s a science joke. I had no idea, but you know exactly what he’s talking about.

Steve:Guys chase that, and in ’89 that was the largest selling drug in the world, Viagra. So, people are chasing this sort of stuff and it’s required for so much better health than just – you know. It’s a bigger picture the Thyroid. Because there are Receptors in every tissue in your body, it affects everything. Matt’s hair, everywhere in your body, your Bowel, your Thyroid is everywhere, incredibly important.

Matt:So, part of the formula was to make sure the Thyroid wasn’t the handbrake for Fat Loss. Because, like I said, most of the problems with Fat Loss are not lack of effort, but too many handbrakes. So, we’re trying to remove the handbrakes. The other main –

Jeff:I was going to say, that’s the Thyroid, and I know we jumped out for a little bit and we jumped back into it. And, we talked about Cyclic AMP as well, which is related to the Thyroid, it is all inter-related, and this is the thing we always talk about, with the body, you can’t just look at it independently of all other issues.

Matt:If we were to make a Thyroid product and just give the support for the Thyroid but not take into consideration the Adipokines and Cytokines, which we just discussed, Estrogen Dominance is another major one, and that seems to be a lot associated with the Adipokines and that sort of stuff with Obesity.
De Jong is a cool Herb again, as a Phytoandrogen, having increasing Androgenic effects in the body, offsetting the Estrogen Dominance.
But, the other major handbrake for Fat Loss is Insulin Resistance. Now, Stevo I believe is one of the best around when it comes to understanding Insulin and Insulin Sensitivity. He will tell you some really cool stuff, but I’m going to give you a quick spoiler of what he’s going to say, in English.
When Insulin is secreted it tells your body you’ve got Sugar to Burn, the hierarchy says, “We’re going to Burn Sugar first. Do not Burn Fat.” The problem is, with Insulin Resistance when you have normal amounts of Carbohydrates your body releases way too much Insulin which tricks your body into thinking, “There is no way you need to Burn Fat.” Over to you.

Steve:That’s pretty much it. Insulin is a reactive Hormone, it reacts to your environment, which could be Exercise and Diet. So, if you’re going to have a bowl of pasta for dinner tonight it’s going to do two things: it’s going to produce a lot of Sugar, so your body will pump out loads of Insulin, and the problem with that is, all that Sugar that we talked about in a previous podcast, is that Sugar has to be converted into Fat. The Fat it turns into is a Fat called Palmitic Acid which actually induces Insulin Resistance. So, it’s very scary that people are doing this to themselves on a daily basis, having these sorts of things.
Also, going back to the Thyroid, having lots of Carbohydrates at once does suppress the Thyroid, and if you’ve ever had the big bowl of pasta and you feel like falling asleep straight after, or you had a sandwich for lunch and at 3 o’clock you are a bit tired, and you’re wondering why, that’s the Thyroid being suppressed from the food that you’re eating. So, be very cautious of that.
But, the big thing with Insulin Resistance is, and remember our doorbell analogy before, there are little messengers inside the Cells for Insulin as well, and they can include Zinc, Chromium is a big one, and a lot of people have heard of Chromium and they think it works with Sugar, well that’s how it works, it works the second messenger. Magnesium, Selenium, these things also work within the Cell. So, if Insulin is not getting through, like we said, Insulin comes along, knocks on the door, open the door and the Sugar goes in. With Insulin Resistance, it doesn’t just knock on the door, it bangs on the door so your Pancreas produces lots of Insulin, stops you Burning Fat forever and a day, and then you also can’t get Sugar in your Cells so you feel Fatigued. So, you need a pick me up, a Sugary something to pick them up, and it just goes around and around in circles.

Jeff:A vicious cycle.

Steve:A train wreck, and you need to break it, and this is what T432 does, it actually breaks the cycle because it works in so many different ways, and I love that. Because, if you think about the other conventional approaches, yeah there are products with Tyrosine and Iodine in them, and other products, but probably nothing like this. This has everything required to fulfil a health Thyroid, that’s what it’s all about. Even the second messengers are taken care of with Coleus, so it’s absolutely great.

Jeff:With regards to Insulin Sensitivity, what is in the formula that specifically addresses that, Matt?

Matt:Like Stevo was saying, the Zinc, the Chromium, the Selenium are important Nutrients to make sure the Receptor is capable of sending the message on. Cinnamon is very important in improving Insulin Sensitivity.

Jeff:Cinnamon is cool, isn’t it?

Matt:Cinnamon is very cool, there’s a lot more research coming out about it too. Man, there is something really cool I’ve got to tell you guys, but I don’t want to jump the gun.

Jeff:Off air?

Matt:No, no it’s here, I’ll tell everyone. Cinnamon is heavily involved in it, and it’s to do with the Microbiome. So, Cinnamon is very important for Insulin Sensitivity, Yerba Mate, De Jong again, the Pomegranate Peel, they all work together to improve Insulin Sensitivity.

Jeff:So, they’re having dual effects?


Matt:Yeah. But, that’s the cool thing about Natural products, man. They often to work at creating the right holistic approach to induce a function, from one Herb. And, that’s the problem with the medical world extracting one active ingredient out of a Herb and saying, “This is how the Herb worked,” and it’s not, the whole Herb did the thing. So, all those things work together on Insulin Sensitivity and you can see they will do it, to a certain degree, by creating the correct Hormonal Profile with Androgens, Thyroids, Second Messengers, all those things together working together to correct the picture.
With Insulin Resistance, and a lot of people when they hear Insulin they assume Diabetes, or they think Diabetes straight away, and unless they’ve a diagnosis of Diabetes they think they haven’t got a Insulin problem. But, if you struggle with a pot belly, or a Dad belly, which is like a full keg belly as opposed to just a pot of beer, if you’ve got a pot belly, or a beer belly, Hirsutism, so if you’ve getting Hair turning up in the wrong places or if you’re getting Hair loss in the places it should be and the Hair appearing on your chin instead of your head and you’re a lady that’s a sign of Insulin Resistance. Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome, Insulin Resistance Syndrome, Acne, those things are all signs that you’ve got this, but the most common sign would be the Reactive Hypoglycemia where you eat a bit of Carbohydrate and your body releases way too much Insulin than is necessary and that crashes your Sugar through the floor so you get a Reactive Hypoglycemia. You want to know where it goes?


Matt:It’s only muscle Cells that get Insulin Resistant, Fat Cells don’t, they’ll take it.

Steve:They’ll take it.

Jeff:Isn’t that a bitch? That’s terrible.

Matt:What happens is, your Insulin goes too high, your muscles don’t get the Sugar so you still feel flat –

Steve:It’s actually a good thing if you were trying to survive in the bush because you want to store Fat because you’ve eaten this beautiful – I was going to say come across a honey hive, you gorge yourself on honey, and you want a bit of Fat so you can get home and you can survive. But, we don’t have that problem anymore as humans, so that wonderful mechanism that used to serve us well is killing us. Matt talked about Insulin Resistance, and yes it does cause Obesity in women.
PCOS is huge, and I’ve been talking about it a lot this morning. In PCOS, Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome, the Insulin drives up the Androgens being released from the Ovaries, so you get massive amounts of Androgens, they get Hirsutism, and you’ll see women who have lost their hour glass figure, they get thicker around the waist, they may not be Fat, but they just get thicker around the waist like a male does, and that’s where the Androgen deposits the Fat in women, and they just lose that hour glass shape. So, if you’re a woman and you’re that shape, then just be aware of that.

Matt:While we’re talking about it, and this is the problem with humans, there’s lots of us and we’re all a little bit different. One way that some women – with the Cystic Ovarian Syndrome they get too many Androgens, as you’re saying, which is too much Testosterone, which is why you get the Hair, the Acne, the Whiskers and the Cysts. But, one way the body can compensate for that is to send a message out to the body saying, “Make more Estrogen.” But, the problem is it’s normally made in the Ovaries, the same process that’s defective that’s making the Androgens. So, what can happen, in some women, and it’s very important I’m saying this, and it’s a bit irrelevant but it’s important, their Fat Cells on the bum, so the Cells that are capable of making Estrogen, the Subcutaneous Fat, they upregulate their Aromatase converting Testosterone in the Fat to Estrogen making a giant bum, so making an Estrogen body shape.
Some women come in with Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome with a blood test that shows very Low Estrogen and very High Androgens but as they’re walking in the first thing you’re thinking is, “Oh my gosh, there’s Estrogen Dominance.” What can happen is the Fat Cells can be making Estrogen, utilising that Estrogen in those Fat Cells and not contributing that Estrogen back into the bloodstream, which is why the blood tests are not picking it up, and it’s doing that because the Ovaries are making too many Androgens.
You have to understand that these two things can occur at once within the body throughout compartmentalisation because you can’t go through and do a systemic Estrogen Detoxification, Androgen Build-up to fix the Cellulite even if they came into you because, “My problem is Cellulite.”

Jeff:I heard this really great analogy one time, which was, if they sent a space probe to earth and it landed in the middle of the Sahara they’d look at that and they’d go, “There’s no life on earth,” but of course, they only needed to go a few thousand kilometres one way and they’re going to land on a snow-capped mountain or in the ocean or what have you.” The same with these tests, if you’re just looking at one area you might not have looked hard enough.

Matt:Yeah, well blood tests look at blood, typically. And, if it’s not contributing to the blood, and the blood is usually the stuff that is in transit, or responding to what’s happening on a Cellular level.

Steve:You’ve got to remember Hormones are Fat soluble because they’re made from Cholesterol, so they can sit in Fats. Eventually, when a woman becomes very obese and Insulin Resistant they do produce more Estrogen because of the huge amount of Fat Cells that they produce, and that’s like taking the Contraceptive Pill, and that’s why a lot of Obese women simply can’t fall pregnant, because they’re on the “Pill” produced from their body.

Jeff:The Estrogen is doing it.

Steve:It’s scary. It’s sad, and of course, it drives up Breast Cancers and all sorts of things.

Matt:So, if we take into consideration Insulin, if we take that out of the picture, and that’s why we recommend people take T432 with meals.
We want them to take it with meals to help their Insulin Sensitivity with meals. The other reason with meals is, appetite control. The other pillar that the product works on is Satiety and Appetite Control.

Jeff:How is that formed, Matt?

Matt:Well, I’ll tell you what we’ve done, and we did it really coolly – I’m a bit biased, but I think we’re pretty cool. The trend, at the time, when we made this a few years ago was, everyone was using bulking fibers or Digestive Inhibitors and things like that to reduce Appetite by making you feel full, and through fullness creating Satiety. But, the reason we don’t want to over eat is because we look bloated and Fat. When you take a bulking, bloating, fattening, Fiber, you still look Fat and you don’t want to eat and you hate yourself and that sort of stuff.
So, what we did instead, we discovered this thing called GLP-1, Glucagon-like peptide 1. And, that’s induced by a thing called Yerba Mate, and the way it works is, normally when we go into a Calorie Depravation our body tries to adapt and say, “Let’s slow down our Metabolism because we don’t have enough fuel to Burn.” What this does is it basically stops you going into that starvation mode, it tells your body, “You’re fine not to eat, you’ve got ample Calories, and you don’t have to shut down your Metabolism.” The other thing it does is it does that without creating any Bloating and it does it without creating any fullness, in fact it can leave you feeling nice and flat and empty and light. So, that Appetite Control is very important, and it’s mainly just the Yerba Mate that’s doing that.

Jeff:So, we’re working on Thyroid, we’re working on Insulin, we’re working on Satiety. This is obviously a very well rounded product.

Matt:And, we’re breaking the vicious cycle of Obesity with the Adipokines and the Cytokines. And, that leads me into my last point that I was extremely excited about, because it’s got nothing to do with why I made the product, but it’s something that’s come out just in recent times since this has been on the market. The Gut Flora has a massive impact on your Metabolic Rate. Basically, if they never met you and they looked at your poo they could tell if you were Fat or Thin based on the bugs that live in your poo. It is getting that specific now that we know Bacteroidetes and Firmicutes work together in harmony to control your Metabolic Rate.

Jeff:Matt, is this coming out of the study where they’re mapping the Gut Flora? I know that we’ve mapped the Genome and a lot of people have heard of that, but one so the ones they’re looking at is mapping the Gut Flora, aren’t they?

Matt:Yeah. What they’re doing in that process is they’re getting Fat people, Thin people, Athletes and all that stuff, people with Gout, people with all these things, and mapping their Microbiome and seeing patterns in these different people. But, more importantly, what’s coming out of it is the ability to change it. So, with rebound weight gain, for example, rebound weight gain. If you imagine when you eat more you build more muscle. Did you know we’ve got 10 times as many Gut Bugs as we do have whole Cells of our whole body. So, when we’re building up we just keep building, so when we’re feeding our muscles you’re feeding your Gut Bugs as well. They’re growing and growing and growing, you’re pooing out dead Bugs constantly all day, every day. There is the same amount of dead Bugs in your poo as there is Fiber.
What they’re finding now is, when you Diet the Bugs don’t just die off and disappear. So, when you’re eating too much and got Fat you’ve made Fat Bugs. When you started Dieting the Fat Bugs didn’t just disappear they just lay dormant, and what’s worse they panic and shoot out eggs and think, “Well, we’ve got to wait because we’re going to go through feast and famine. We’ve just finished the fruit season, we’re about to go through a cold snap now and no fruit, we’ve got to wait six months before we get fruit again, so we’ve got to shoot these eggs out.” Back to that sort of thing. Then, what happens is, in the meantime you’ve cut your Calories, you’ve Burnt and Burnt, you’ve changed your Metabolism, the Gut Flora has lain dormant. Then, as soon as you change your Diet back, put some Carbs typically back in –

Jeff:Yummy food for them.

Matt:Then, what happens is, they Bloat, they Ferment, you get the fullness. You know how people say, “As long as I don’t eat anything my Gut is fine,” and as soon as they put these things in, they’re back to the way they were. Or, they go on a specific FODMAP or specific Carb, all of these things, and when they change back their Guts goes bad, because their Gut Flora is just waiting for them to do what they always did that made them.
Now, the point of my story is, when I went and analysed all that, Yerba Mate, De Jong, Pomegranate Peels, Cinnamon, all of the main ingredients, Forskolin and that are the exact things that we use to change your Gut Flora to make your Metabolic Rate better. So, take it for a long time and it will fix your Guts.

Jeff:So, the Fat Bugs that you’re talking about in your Gut, are the types of Bugs that crave certain foods?

Matt: Firmicutes, mm.

Jeff: And, typically, those foods are not beneficial for keeping a nice lean healthy physique, they’re craving the sorts of Inflammation –

Matt:And, they make you crave it.

Jeff:That’s right. So, it’s like, “Whatever I do I just can’t stop thinking about these things.” So, you might go on a Diet, you’ve lost all the weight, you’ve done it for three months, fantastic, you’ve won your 12-week challenge, your happy with the, “Hey, I lost 15 kilos.” Six months down the track you’re back as big if not bigger than before because you’ve starved these Bugs for a while, you have a little bit of a blowout and all of a sudden, they get a little taste of this food that you’ve denied yourself for a long time.

Matt:The eggs hatch.

Jeff:The eggs go, “Woohoo, here we go,” so you’ve got more than you had before because they’ve sent out their eggs. So, killing that bad stuff, Matt, that’s what we’re interested in.

Matt:And, it does it. I’d like to say that I planned it, but it’s kind of cool that it does it.

Jeff:Well, the funny thing is, from what we understood with regards to the ingredients that are in here, we knew that it had positive effects on Weight Loss.


Jeff:Part of the mechanism was known but part of it wasn’t known. Now we’ve discovered some of the other parts, and again, as you said before, we put it in for one reason but actually it works on two. Well, actually, this is now working on three reasons, Gut Health as well as the Hormone Chemical Pathways in the body as well. It’s great.

Matt:Well five: Thyroid, Insulin Sensitivity, Appetite Control, Adipokines and Cytokines sort of thing, and then your Gut Bugs, the Microbiome.


Jeff:Now you’re showing off, aren’t you?

Matt:No, I used five fingers, I still had to count, I still had to use my fingers. (laughing)

Jeff:Just as well we didn’t get to 11 otherwise you’d be pulling off your –

Matt:Pulling off a what?

Jeff:You’d be pulling your shoes off.



Matt:I was thinking, because I only needed one extra one, I wasn’t sure.

Jeff:No, that’s not big enough to count.

Matt:Ten and a half.

Jeff:Oh dear. Matt, talking about the Gut, we are working on some pretty cool stuff down the track, but that’s a podcast for another day.

Matt:Shh, this is a product flog, remember.

Jeff:No, product information podcast.

Matt:A prodcast?

Jeff:is there anything else you want to talk about specifically about the product? Because, I want to mention some testimonials from some people who have used it and the results that they’ve had directly using the product.

Matt:We covered the FAQs regarding medication, which are pretty much the only ones we’ve had with this product, so I think we’re pretty cool with it.

Steve:You can take it, just keep your checks with your doctor. You usually get blood tests every month if you’re on Thyroxin because of your dose and the half-life and that, and that usually happens about once a month, and you get a blood test.

Matt:So, that’s all fine, no we’re cool, man. Let’s go. What have you got?

Jeff:What I’ve got is some feedback on the T432, and these are from people who have used it, and these are going back over several years since the T432 Plus came out. We’ve made some minor changes to the formulation, which is the one that’s currently on the market.


This one is from Alec-
“I’ve been taking T432 for around two weeks now and I’m already seeing so many benefits. I wanted a Fat Burner that wasn’t pumped full of Caffeine because I don’t drink coffee or energy drinks and this has been perfect. It doesn’t give me the shakes all day like other Fat Burners do.”
So, that’s a nice one from the point of view from someone who is over stimmed, which again, we worry about Adrenal Exhaustion and those sorts of things being a contributing factor.
From Nicole-
“This is amazing. This was a game changer for me during Comp Prep, no Sugar or sweet cravings at all and made it so much easier to stay on track. I still take it every day as it keeps me balanced.”

This one is from-Instagramlimfit.PT-
“For six years since battling Cancer, taking medications, and dealing with the aftermath of Chemotherapy, my body was literally screaming for help. Mentally, physically and emotionally I was exhausted. I was determined, willing and utilising the mental strength I gained whilst being ill I changed my lifestyle entirely. Exercise, training, eating habits, and positive headspace allowed me to lose 40 kilos in eight months.”

Matt: Struth.


“I got to a point where I hit a plateau and couldn’t shift any more weight, so I incorporated T432 Plus into my regime and lost the last 5 kilograms to hit my goal weight. Thank you so much for a great product.”
It’s interesting, when a lot of people plateau it seems like nothing can help, but again, because this product is working on so many different levels there might have been a little chink in his armour and this has obviously helped to provide some of the support that he’s needed to get that last little bit.

Steve:And, to reiterate what Matt said, this thing Burns 24/7, it’s not like going to the gym. If you go to the gym for an hour a day, every day of the week, Saturday, Sunday, everything, it’s still less than 5% of your life.

Jeff:And, the amount of weight that you Burn at the gym – and, that’s great, but it’s the afterburn and the Mitochondrial density, that can obviously improve Metabolic Rate.


Jeff:But, this is another tool if you like to keep that Burn going.

Matt:Yeah, exactly.

Jeff:This one is from Andrew-
“I’ve been using T432 Plus for two weeks now. I’ve always relied on Stimulants to help with Energy and help push where required intensity for weights and Cardio. I have to say, the Energy I’ve got for training since taking the T432 Plus has well and truly exceeded my expectations. I’ve got high energy throughout, my level of sweating is borderline concerning. I’d rate it so far as good, if not better than pharmaceutical options such as Duromine, and has the effects without the harsh side effects.”
Of course, that’s a big one for us. Where possible, Nature knows best.

Steve:Of course, it does.

Jeff:Pharmaceuticals are only if you absolutely need to.

Steve:I call them Alternative Medicine. I know it’s weird, but it’s an alternative for healthy –

Matt:But, we’re here first.

Steve:Yeah. It’s an alternative for healthy living. I don’t think it’s mainstream, and mainstream is eating well, exercising and living well, taking supplements. Alternatively, if you’re sick you can take a drug, but that’s alternative to good health, I always look at it as alternative medicine.

Jeff:Steve, Matt and I always say, “We’re not anti-Medication.” We’re anti-overmedication. We’re anti-over-prescription, over prescribed at the doctors and people not doing enough due diligence and making sure you’re fully aware of the facts. For example, not doing theses stupid blood tests where they’re not considering that other things might be happening in the Fat Cells or in other areas of the body, or not looking at Reverse T3 or just looking at TSH. These are the problems, I think, when people trust their doctors, and they should be able to go to your doctor or your healthcare practitioners and be able to trust them, and if you haven’t got a good one go bloody well find one.

Matt:But, you should be able to say to your Thyroid specialist, “How is my Estrogen, my Inflammation and my Cortisol impacting my disease progression?” and they should be able to talk about it instead of saying, “Oh, nothing to do with it, I’m a Thyroid specialist.”

Jeff:Anyway, thanks guys for this. Obviously, we wanted to break down what your Nutrients were, what it was. This is really for people who are already using the product or considering using the product, or retailers. We’d love to hear your questions, if you’ve got any feedback, if you’ve got any testimonials as well.
Any last words on the product, Matt?

Matt:Take it.

Steve:There you go.

Jeff:That’s good. Steve, anything else in particular?

Steve:Just get yourself checked out. If you want to go to the doctor and get your blood tests, ask for Free T3 and Free T4 –

Matt:And, Reverse T3.

Steve:And, Reverse T3, and you may have to pay for Reverse T3, it may not be PBS listed, but do it. TSH is–


Steve:I won’t even say what I say, but excuse the language, a total shit Hormone, because it’s certainly nowhere to get Thyroid, it’s only a marker of your Pituitary, so I’m not a big fan of TSH, I’d rather measure the Thyroid Hormones, it makes more sense.

Jeff:From my point of view as well, one of the things I would say, and I was just saying it before, you’ve got to understand really where you’re at, not just someone’s opinion, or they think that you’re at, but find out where you’re really at. Look, supplementation is always a good way to go if you’re not getting the results and if your Diet isn’t working. First and foremost, your Diet should be absolutely the Number 1, obviously exercise, and supplementation can aid where these things are not quite firing right. And, again, our supplements are made from food in higher concentrations and extracts which are –

Matt:A more convenient form of it.


Matt:The only other thing I wanted to mention is, our webpage is full of awesome resources for this, we have all the tech data for the products, but we also have the Body Temperature charts, the symptom picture questionnaires, a lot of those sorts of resources. As well as the Blogs, the Podcasts and the information that you might want to take to your doctors and specialists that you can use. Take control of your own health.

Jeff:Matt, I just had a genius idea, as well.


Jeff:What other ideas, or what other products can this work with? If someone is considering using T432, but as we know, everybody is different, you might have people who are stressed out with too much Cortisol, you might have people, as you mentioned before, where all the Estrogen is on the bum. What other product does this work with and for what conditions? So, what should it stack with?

Matt:Yeah. Across the board, every person should be stacking everything with MULTIFOOD for a start.


Matt:We’ll do a prodcast on MULTIFOOD.

Jeff:A prodcast?

Matt:Yeah. But, the thing is with MULTIFOOD as it contains all of the weird tiny little essential Cofactors, Trace Elements, even the stuff we don’t even know, that’s provided by Nature to make sure everything we’re trying to do is capable of happening.

Jeff:And, go listen to the Missing Link Podcast, especially if you’ve tried everything, you’re frustrated, you’ve tried Diets, you’ve tried Exercise, tried Nutritional Plans, tried Supplementation, and you’re not getting the results, a lot of that comes down to Missing Links which could be these Vitamins, Minerals and Cofactors that are not present in your Diet. It’s a great Podcast, if we do say so ourselves.

Matt:Oh, I think it’s fantastic. One of my best. (laughs)

Jeff:Yeah. But, MULTIFOOD is a great product to add in just to get you to that stable state, so things can work. Without the gun powder you can’t create the spark, you can’t create the fire.

Matt:So, throw that in everywhere. The things we talked about, handbrakes for Fat Loss, Estrogen Dominance, was a main one, so therefore you’d stack your T432 with a BLOCK E3 cream that you could use as a topical cream for Estrogen on the Subcutaneous Tissue, and either an ALPHA VENUS or ALPHA PRIME. Listen to those prodcasts to work out which one of those is most appropriate for you.
If you’re looking at just generalised Obesity, not necessarily and Estrogen Dominance, SUBCUT is a transdermal product. You can use both SUBCUT and BLOCK E3, but if you’ve got Estrogen Dominance BLOCK E3 is so important, but if you’ve got just generalised areas of stubborn Fat, Subcutaneous Fat, the SUBCUT can definitely help to mobilise that Fat out of its storage and into your bloodstream so you’re capable of Burning it.

Jeff:The best way, Matt, and correct me if I’m wrong, the difference between someone with a BLOCK E3 body type is that typically it’s lumpy, chunky, unsightly bits of Fat as opposed to –

Matt:Isolated. No, no it’s shape, it’s where it is. So, with the Estrogen body type we’re looking at isolated compartmentalised Fat Tissue, typically saddlebags, front veranda, love handles, those sorts of things. So, basically, the muffin tops. So, we’re looking at the lower abdomen, the lower back, hips, glutes and hammies, and groin are the main sites, and then the tuck-shop lady arms, the back of the arms. So, they’re the typical sites –

Jeff:Our American friends are going to love this, the front veranda, and the tuck shop ladies.


Matt:Basically, they’re the areas where we’ve got Estrogen Dominance, but the weird thing about Estrogen Tissue is it’s funny, because as you start to Burn Fat it becomes more and more isolated. So, you see the girls who strip out the Fat really easily but then get this weird little saddlebag on the side of their hip and it looks worse, and it becomes more isolated. And, it’s the same as the love handles, you’ll find people can have a four pack at the top and everything like that, but then be stuck with these love handles that become more and more isolated and more and more resistant. They’re the areas where you put BLOCK E3.
Other areas of just generalised Fat you can put SUBCUT, you can put SUBCUT anywhere. And, you can combine the two. I always tell people, if you’re going to use both, do BLOCK E3 first because you want to put that onto the specific Estrogen areas, and then you can do a more generalised covering with the SUBCUT.
So, Estrogen Dominant people, BLOCK E3 and either ALPHA VENUS or ALPHA PRIME, depending on which one is most appropriate, and then the MULTIFOOD of course. SUBCUT if you just want something to help mobilise the stubborn stuff that the T432 will Burn when it sees it.
If you are predisposed to Inflammation and or Stress, then CORT RX is the thing you want to stack it with. CORT RX is a very powerful anti-Inflammatory, it’s what we call and NRF2 Activator, it’s our first sign of defence, it makes us feel more resilient, it helps us deal with Inflammatory Stress and Oxidative Stress. So, they’re the main things I’d look at with stacking T432 with.

Steve:And, AMP V.

Jeff:I was about to say that. You took the words out of my mouth, Steve. I was about to say AMP is probably one of my favourite products, probably right behind MULTIFOOD.

Matt:Yeah, absolutely. So, basically, those other things you use to control your Hormonal Body Shape and your Body Composition, Hormonal Profile with the T432. But the AMP is a very interesting weird product, and again, we’ll have an AMP Prodcast as well.


Matt:I just made that word up, isn’t it catchy? What that works on is it’s an Oil based product that’s a direct stimulant to induce Fat Burning as part of your exercise. So, use that one as a Pre-workout, it enhances performance, helps Fat Burning and it makes you feel amazing.

Jeff:And look, the thing is, our products do work and are designed to work complimentarily and to stack together, depending on who you are. It doesn’t mean you should use everything that we’ve got, and again, this is getting and understanding by listening to our podcasts about what issues you may have, and you can listen to the FAQs that we have from people where we recommend, “Use the MULTIFOOD, use the AMP V as well too.”

Matt:Carnitine, you might want to throw some Carnitine in there.

Jeff:Acetyl L-Carnitine is fantastic. Look, it’s one of those things, we will go through and do a Podcast for people who are interested to get the most out of the ATP Supplement range on how each individual product works and then how it can be stacked together. So, I encourage you, if you found today’s podcast interesting –

Matt:Go on, you can use it.

Jeff:Prodcast – go through and have a look at the other prodcasts on the which other products may be suitable for you.
Guys, we’ve run out of time, but I just wanted to wrap it up there. Thanks Steve, thanks Matt, and we’ll be back with another Prodcast – thanks Matt.

Matt:I told you it’s catchy.

Jeff:Alright, thanks. See you later guys.

Steve:Thank you.