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Episode 66 – Are Vegan Diets Better?


ATP Science Ep 66 – The Vegan Diet



Welcome to the ATP Project, Episode 66:  Vegan; is it the Ultimate Diet?

  • Pros and Cons of Vegan and Raw Vegan
  • What role does Meat play in general Health?
  • What can Vegans and Meat Eaters learn from each other.
  • What Vegans are missing in their Diet and the serious Health risks these Imbalances cause.
  • Why is the Vegan Diet one of the most Acidic producing Diets for Humans?
  • FAQs on Stubborn Fat that won’t budge on Diet and Exercise, two male and one female with the same Fat Loss frustration, but the reasons couldn’t be more different.


What’s happening and how to fix it will give hope to anyone who feels they should be getting better results from their Fat Loss campaign.  As Matt says, “It’s all about finding the minority in the majority, the one thing that you can uncover that makes all the difference.”

Stay tuned the ATP Project is about to start.

Welcome to the ATP Project, you’re with your hosts Matt and Jeff:

Jeff:       Mattie?

Matt:     G’day.

Jeff:       Today we’re talking about Diets, specifically the Vegan Diet, the Raw Vegan Diet and Alkalising Diets.

Matt:     And Vegetarian?

Jeff:       Vegetarianism.

Matt:     And, Omnivore.

Jeff:       Right.  Let’s talk about all of that.  Matt, what is the perfect Diet?

Matt:     Don’t know.  It depends on the time, the place, the person and your goals.

Jeff:       It was interesting, we were having a conversation this morning about people from different geographical locations having different Bacteria and systems in the Stomach.

Matt:     I think they’re racist.

Jeff:       The organisms?

Matt:     Yeah, Microbes.  That’s all I can work out from it.  It’s interesting because when I was looking into this Vegan, Omnivore, Vegetarian Diets and I was doing a bit of research to see if it is as good as it can be, and I was looking at the Gut Microbiota and what was really interesting was that they found with Western cultures or Western people if they give them an Asian Diet it doesn’t create the same Gut Flora changes as giving an Asian an Asian Diet.  In particular, Soy, for example; when they fed people that don’t have Soy as part of their culture and traditional food, and when they give them Soy it doesn’t create the Gut changes and make the particular strains of Bacteria that it does in an Asian person, so when they gave Soy to an Asian population, with a long history of traditional food use of Soy, their Gut Flora changes very quickly to make these particular strains of Bacteria that help them to process and utilise the Soy as a fermented product.

Jeff:       So beneficial?

Matt:     Yeah, beneficial.  But, when giving the Soy to the Europeans and the Western people it didn’t create the same change in the Gut Flora, it didn’t create the same Biochemical Pathways or the same Chemistry creating the same protective Nutrients that it did in other cultures.

Jeff:       Yeah, it’s interesting.

Matt:     So, you’re looking at it going, “Okay, so we can go back and say, “These cultures don’t have this condition because they eat a lot of these foods,” but does that mean, “If I eat a lot of those foods I’m going to be protected,” or, what is it…

Jeff:       One man’s meat is another man’s poison”?

Matt:     Yeah.  It’s interesting, I would have assumed—you can’t say, “As a big 120 kilo Australian, if I eat the same food as a 60 kilo Chinese person I’m going to be lean and have that same body shape and body type.”  So, we go back to Genetics and Foods and Lifestyles, and we can’t compare them, but now we’re finding that, “No, maybe just the bugs are racist.”

Jeff:       Is this also, Matt, why some people might swear by a certain Superfood and or Supplement saying, “Oh my Gosh, Macca Powder is best thing since day dot”?  There may be reasons why it’s not beneficial for all people.

Matt:     Yeah, exactly.

Jeff:       And, in fact, we see it often, Matt.  And, we’ve spoken about it with Drugs as well, too, everybody is different and that’s the hardest thing to be able to factor in, 70% success rate with Drugs is considered to be a successful Drug.

Matt:     Exactly.

Jeff:       So, it’s the same thing with a lot of these things, and again, this goes to say, “If you’re using something that’s not working for you, even though your best mate is getting brilliant results…

Matt:     It may not work for you.

Jeff:       Yeah, so maybe look for something else.

Matt:     Yeah, exactly.  It’s really interesting.  I was doing a little bit of this research just yesterday, just reading through some statistics that are coming out, because I just try to get the stats, because that’s just telling us the numbers and then we try to interpret and work it out from there.  Because, what we’re going to discover, in my opinion, there is no one perfect diet because you’re supposed to change what you eat depending on what your goals are and what’s available and from the seasons, so we’ll probably find that there is no one Diet that’s great for everyone, but there are, actually, food tools that we can use, or food strategies.

Jeff:       Can people rely on you, Matt, as a food tool?

Matt:     Well, people look at me as a tool, yeah.

Jeff:       I do.

Matt:     But, very few people look at me as a food.

Jeff:       Maybe if you go up to Papua New Guinea.  But, what I was going to say, is where, potentially, the basis—and, I know you’re not a fan of it—the Blood Group Diet and all that sort of stuff which looks at geographical—because, what they said was, “Okay, people with this blood group came from this area,” and I know there were a lot of assumptions made there, although some people swear by it.  Now, maybe they’ve stumbled onto something where they’re kind of eating right for their body, and I don’t want to disparage it, and I don’t honestly know, but I know that…

Matt:     No one knows, that’s the point.  So, if you look at the Bloody Type Diet, for example, the basis of that Diet—they were testing these compounds called Lectins, which are little markers found on food that have an interaction with our Immune System, so certain people respond to different Lectins, and then they believe that these Lectins also were linked in with the blood types, so they found patterns where certain blood types would have—because, you know the way they determine blood type is by Antibody Responses to blood and that sort of thing—so, then they found people with a certain blood type had certain Antibody responses against different Lectins which would create Inflammatory or Immune problems, and that can contribute to Disease, Age Related Disorders and other Inflammatory conditions.  So, that was the basis of the Blood Type Diet, but there were a lot of holes in it, and they just talk too much sometimes, you know, like me.

Sometimes you’ve got to accept the fact that, “Hey, we’re got some statistics, we don’t really know the full story behind it but this is what we know.  We need to share some information without having to go back and—so, some people say too much.  Like, as a Naturopath sometimes certain things work, and if you don’t know how it works that’s fine, just say, “We don’t know how it works,” you don’t have to make some bullshit story up about fairies and toadstools and weird stuff, and the same with the Blood Type Diets, like, “We’ve found these Lectins for these particular foods interact with these particular things, be aware of that,” instead of going back and saying, “If you’re a Blood Type A then you were a farmer, if you’re a Blood Type O you were a hunter gatherer, is you were a Blood Type B you’re a genius and you’re amazing and you’re handsome and stuff.”

Jeff:       You’re Blood Type B, aren’t you?

Matt:     Yeah, actually.  How did you know?  And, if you’re AB it’s like, “Okay, well you’re probably a bit of each of these two categories, let’s just see what happens,” so they say too much.

Jeff:       They go too far.  It’s funny, it’s like we’ve got one and one, “Well one and one is 11,” “Well, no it could be two,” and that’s the problem, I think, when people overreach.  I mean there’s no problem as long as they state, “Well, look here’s is what we know…

Matt:     “This is science, but…

Jeff:       …and, here’s the hypothesis.”

Matt:     Yeah, exactly.  So, what I’ve been doing with this Diet stuff is just trying to find some interesting stats because I’m probably coming in with it a bit biased thinking there is no one Diet that’s right, but all I’ve been trying to do is find what’s good about each diet.  Because, if we teach people what’s been proven and what we believe to be the best parts of each Diet they can recreate their own Diet strategies depending on their personal goals and that sort of stuff.  Then, of course, this isn’t taking into consideration other reasons for choosing to be Vegan or Vegetarian, such as religious stuff, don’t like hurting animals.

Jeff:       Did you hear that they want to change Egg and Bacon Bay down in, I think it’s South Australia or Tasmania?  There’s a place called Egg and Bacon Bay and [0:09:12] want to change it to…

Matt:     Tofu?  Tofu Town.

Jeff:       Tofu Bay.  I don’t know to Egg Salad, no not even Egg Salad, they can’t because of the poor chickens, so they call it Salad Bay.

Matt:     What are the chickens going to do if they don’t pop the egg out?

Jeff:       I don’t know.

Matt:     Anyway.  Get bored.

Jeff:       I digress, Matt.  So, the Paleo people are going to be up in arms, it’s going to be Paleo versus [0:09:34].

Matt:     Oh Gosh.  I think the Paleo mob sounds scarier than the [0:09:41] mob.  Although.  But, anyhoo.

Jeff:       Anyhoo.

Matt:     So, like I was just saying, this discussion is not talking about not eating animals because you don’t want to hurt animals, which is a very good point, because personally, I’m a bit of a softie, I reckon if I had to kill my animals to eat my meat I would eat a lot less.

Jeff:       I think a lot of people, Matt, would probably agree with that.

Matt:     Yeah, I think I’d only be doing fish because I like fishing.

Jeff:       I grew up on a farm in New Zealand and I’ve seen—oh my gosh, I wouldn’t tell you.  I think we’d lose listeners if I told you some of the things that I’ve seen, growing up on a farm, and as a six-year-old kid, as well too, it’s pretty frickin horrendous, it sticks in my mind.  But, anyway, you’re right, Matt, I think a lot of people are just happy for it to be processed.

Matt:     I’m just glad my shoes and belt don’t have a personality, so I don’t feel bad about walking around with a leather wallet, shoes, belt.

Jeff:       There’s been a lot of controversy, obviously, with the treating of our cattle, especially, going to Indonesia at the moment and the way that’s been handled.  I have great sympathy for our farmers, at the same time, because they often don’t know what’s happening at the other end.  At the same time, Matt, the way that some of these animals are killed is absolutely inhumane, it’s terrible.

Matt:     Oh, it’s disgusting.

Jeff:       And, I’m not saying that of any particular—anywhere.  But, funnily enough…

Matt:     Funnily?  There’s that word again.

Jeff:       Funnily enough, if animals aren’t culled in a humane way where their stress levels are up and all the rest of it, then I believe that those Hormones and that high level of Stress permeates into the meat.

Matt:     Of course.

Jeff:       So, in terms of putting down the animals we need to look at that, and the same thing with caged eggs versus free range and all the rest of it.  There’s that great movie called Food Inc that talks about the Quality of our food and animal husbandry and actually caring for the animal and things like that.  And, I appreciate some of our friends who are dead against it, who are Vegan and who absolutely cannot stand leather belts and all that sort of stuff, and I respect their right to not like that, but in the same way, I think for those that do, I think there’s a better way of doing it than hurting animals.

Matt:     Before we move on, the only other thing that spins me out about the whole Vegan food thing, is the way they get…

Jeff:       Not dogs?

Matt:     Yeah, Vegan meat alternatives and make it look like a meat, so they’re still glorifying the slaughter and that of the animal but then choosing to have the Vegan foods, you know, how they do the drum sticks made out of Gluten or whatever.  They actually go through and recreate it as if, “Oh, we’ve slaughtered this animal and baked it whole.  Here, eat this as a Vegan,” you know what I mean?  Those things spin me out a little bit.

Jeff:       I don’t think about that too much.  Anyway, Matt, in terms of the Super Diet, the ultimate Diet?  And, we’re sort of touching on this, we’ve got Paleo, we’ve got Vegetarian, we’ve covered all these sorts of things.  So then, what’s the basis behind this Vegan Diet?  And, the other thing I really want to talk about, which is popping up a lot, not just in terms of Diet, but in terms of Supplements as well too, is this whole Alkalising movement.  And, even someone asked me the other day, “Look, I want to go on an Alkalising Diet,” and something that you’d said to me really stuck in my mind, our stomach is acidic, it’s Hydrochloric Acid, and then you’ve got other bodybuilders who are actually taking in Acid to improve their Digestion.

Matt:     Yeah, of course.

Jeff:       So, Matt, what’s the whole reason behind this Alkalising Diet, and then maybe we can breach into the whole Raw Foods and the Vegan Foods and all that sort of stuff as well.  But, Matt, what’s your take on that?

Matt:     I don’t know, it’s a load of rubbish.

Jeff:       So, tell me why.  Go on, seriously.

Matt:     No, the Alkalising Diet; so the body is broken up into compartments, people are often referring to Blood PH.

Jeff:       Yes.

Matt:     So, Blood PH varies by .2 of a movement within the PH level, and outside of that we die.  So, our blood changes PH very little, and what it uses to keep that blood at a certain PH is it uses the other compartments of the body to shift acid around, for example, the Lungs, the Gut, the Mucous Membrane.

Jeff:       What about Calcium coming out of the Bone if the blood is out of whack?  Is that true?

Matt:     Yeah, absolutely.  That’s a big problem with Vegans, their low Bone density, as opposed to the meat eaters which they thought were going to have the problem.  So, with the Alkaline Diet, let me explain it for a sec.  What you’re basically looking at is, and it comes back from research—I can’t remember when the research started, I’ve got a feeling it was around the ‘60s, and what they did is they got the foods, they put it in a crucible, they put on a Bunsen burner, they burnt the foods to be ash, not in a body this is just on a bench, and then they got that ash, they added some water, they added litmus paper and measured the PH of the ash, so they measured the PH of the burnt food when it’s added to water.  What that does, when you burn off the food you’re burning off a lot of the Macro Nutrients and then what you’re left with are the Micros, so when you’ve got that ash, the large components of that ash, Magnesium, Calcium, those sorts of big things, they are going to determine the PH of the ash.  So, basically, the Alkalising Diet is looking at the base Mineral ratios to see if the combinations of the Salts and Minerals within the ash when combined with water is going to be Acidic or Alkaline, then when that stuff goes into your body they’re basically saying that the Amino Acids are going to do nothing for Digestion, the Phytonutrients are going to do nothing for Elimination and any of that sort of stuff.  They’re basically saying, “We’re not going to do anything for Detoxification, these foods have absolutely no other actions in the body other than supplying…

Jeff:       Calories?

Matt:     Well, Calories have been burnt off in this process, so they’re talking about the actual supplying of things like Magnesium and Calcium, and then those Anines and Catines are going to determine your Acid base balance of your body.  It sounds like rubbish, eh?

Jeff:       Yeah, it does.

Matt:     They’re not taking into consideration that foods have activities, foods have therapeutic effects, foods have the Amino Acids that are necessary for Detoxification processes in the Liver.

Jeff:       Methylation, Sulphation and all that sort of stuff?

Matt:     Exactly, yeah.  So, they’re not talking into consideration any of those sorts of things, they’re basically saying, “When you put these foods into your body they’re going to do this,” but it’s not true.  What you’ve got to realise is your Stomach is a pit of Acid, the rest of your Intestine is typically Alkaline.  The more Acidic your Stomach is the more Alkaline your Intestine is, and you need those big extremes in PH through your Digestive Tract for your Digestive Tract to work efficiently.

Jeff:       Because between the Stomach Sphincter and the thing that’s underneath it…

Matt:     I don’t know what’s underneath your Sphincter but they’re weird hand motions you’re doing.

Jeff:       Well it’s that big, Matt.

Matt:     Holy hell.

Jeff:       Sorry Man, I don’t mean to boast.  But look, the thing is…

Matt:     Are you talking about the thing behind you, under your Sphincter?

Jeff:       The thing is, the Stomach its Acidic and then it’s Base, correct?

Matt:     Yeah.

Jeff:       So, the Acid is basically like and [overtalk] [00:16:59]?

Matt:     Exactly, yeah.  We were just talking about a Sphincter and then the Duodenum.

Jeff:       Yeah, that’s what I’m looking for.

Matt:     But if that thing’s that big it’s probably reaching from your Sphincter to your Duodenum.

Jeff:       Mm.

Matt:     So, as your Acid comes out of your Stomach the bit of the tissue outside of the Stomach, the Duodenum, the start of the Small Intestine makes Acid.  As that Acid hits the Duodenum the Duodenum sends a message to the Pancreas to release all the Pancreatic Enzymes…

Jeff:       And they are?

Matt:     …which include things like Bicarb to Alkalise.  So, basically, what happens, the more Acid coming out of the Stomach the more signals that go to your Pancreas to release its stuff which includes Pancreatic Enzymes which are necessary for breaking down the Carbs, the Fats and everything else.  So, the Acid in the Stomach, for the breakdown of the Protein will then trigger the Pancreatic Enzymes for the rest of the Enzymes to complete the Digestive process of the other Carbohydrates and Fats and everything and the other Proteases that will come through there.

Jeff:       It sounds like, naturally, you need to have the right PH of Acid in your Stomach otherwise you’re going to create problems.

Matt:     If we split the body into different parts, the Digestive Tract; the mouth is Alkaline, the Stomach is Acidic, the rest of the Intestine is Alkaline.  We need those extremes of PH for ideal Digestion and then the Bioavailability and the Absorption of the Nutrients.

Our Lungs then, will have the ability to control Acid Base Balance in our Blood by elimination of Carbon dioxide and that sort of stuff, which eliminates Carbonic Acid.  So, for example, most of the Acid that we make in the meat of our body is not made from what we’ve eaten, it’s made from the efficiency of Energy Production Pathways.

Jeff:       So, you’re better off being fit than eating a certain Diet?

Matt:     Yeah, pretty much.  Yeah, that’s a good way of describing it, because most of the Acid that we’re actually making that influences the PH of our Blood, then our Blood adds the burden to our Lungs and our Kidneys to correct that.  Blood PH is coming from Energy Production Pathways and Metabolic Waste, things like Lactic Acid, Ammonia, Pyruvic Acids, Uric Acids and those sorts of thing are what’s actually contributing to the PH changes in our Blood, that then our Lungs and our Kidneys have to work to eliminate, or balance.  But, in the big picture you’ve got a very small window that your Blood is going to change, so to maintain that Blood PH what we need to do is make sure that the Kidneys and the Lungs and everything have everything that they need to be able to buffer Acidity.  At the same time, we need to be able to regulate how much Acid we’re making.  The amount of Acid we’re bringing in from foods is irrelevant…

Jeff:       Right.  That’s pretty controversial, Matt.

Matt:     Yeah, yeah.

Jeff:       A lot of people have based their whole eating plan and everything to eliminate or to reduce Acid.

Matt:     Yeah, exactly.

Jeff:       Funny, eh?

Matt:     Yeah.  So, what you want to do is, you want to eat the right foods for Nutrients and stuff like that, you want to support a healthy Digestive process by creating those extremes in Acid and Alkaline for maximum Absorption, that way you can absorb enough Nutrients to make sure that you’re capable of delivering Oxygen to your Muscle Cells, capable of maintaining healthy Blood Sugar levels so that you’ve got the available Oxygen to burn either the Carbohydrates, the Protein or Fat.  Without that combination of Macro Nutrients and Oxygen availability then you’re going to end up with Acidity anyway from Metabolic Waste from the actual Metabolism process.

Jeff:       Wow.

Matt:     If you throw in extra exercise, extra training, increased Stress, increased Physical and Mental demand, and you’re actually becoming more and more Acidic from the process of your Mitochondrial Metabolic Waste, just from having a faster Metabolism or working hard and exercising hard.  So, most of our Acidity, that we’re talking about, is made as a by-product from the Krebs Cycle Energy Production Pathways.  Oh, and you can be too Alkaline and you’ll die.  Mate, this is the thing—Man, the one study, and people keep talking about that stupid—I shouldn’t say it like that but I do get a little bit annoyed—they say Cancer can’t live in an Acidic environment?

Jeff:       But, this is a guy from the 1930s or ‘50s that wrote a thing saying…

Matt:     Yeah.

Jeff:       You know, that popped up on Facebook the other day and they’re saying, “Old school, it’s a conspiracy, if we do Alkaline there’ll be no more Cancer.”  Go on, what’s the truth, Matt?

Matt:     You can kill Cancer with Bicarb or Acid.  Like I said, we die, Cells die in extremes of Acid or Alkaline; we can only have a very slight change in our PH otherwise your Cells die.

Jeff:       Right.

Matt:     So, in an extreme Acidic condition you can kill Cancer.  In an extreme Alkaline condition, you can kill Cancer.  Around the middle Cancer is fine.

Jeff:       Right, but so are we.

Matt:     Yeah, exactly.  So, you can go and do a whole heap of strategies to Alkalise your Diet, but it’s not going to change your Blood PH, so you’re not going to change the PH of your Cells.  The way you do control the PH of all Cells, including Cancer Cells, is by controlling the Energy Production Pathways.

Jeff:       But, we want it to be at a certain PH level for optimal health, correct?

Matt:     Yeah, exactly.  But, that is going to be governed by your ability for your Liver, your Kidneys and your Lungs to expel the Acids and things like that.

Jeff:       So, if you focus on general health, quality Nutrition that looks after the Liver, the Kidneys, we exercise so that our Cardiovascular capacity is increased, the ability to pant out Acid…

Matt:     And, Mitochondrial Biogenesis is the other important word moving forward.  In any extreme Diets, whether you’re in a very low Protein Diet, or a very high Fat Diet, or a very Low Carb Diet, that sort of stuff, what happens on a Cellular level is our body adapts and we can create more Mitochondria per Cell to utilise different fuels.

Jeff:       And, we have a lot of people talking about the Keto Diet, and again, I refer to Dave Palumbo, who, in my opinion, is one of the foremost experts on it, and even he says, “It’s not designed to stay on it long term, it’s one of those things you do for a short period of time.”  It’s similar in the way, I guess, is that the Keto Diet increases the Mitochondrial Density which a lot of cyclists use to improve performance and things like that.  It’s like training at Altitude for a while, then you come back down, same thing with eating like this as well, too.  Intermittent Fasting, I’m a huge fan of that.

Matt:     Yeah, exactly.

Jeff:       There’s so much research, but you can’t fast the whole time.

Matt:     But see, all of these things are just shaking everything up.

Jeff:       And, the extreme is, “Then I’ll live on Universe dew,” and stuff like that.  It’s not going to happen, you’re going to die, right?

Matt:     Everything in moderation, including moderation.  Because, if you have these strategies where, “I’m going to have a big variety but I’m going to do it systematically,” then your body will adapt and compensate, it will just try and keep you somewhere around the middle.

Jeff:       Well even guys that are training, and it depends on what you’re focused on, “I want to focus on building as much Muscle Mass as possible.”  Well, we know that over consumption of sugars in not good for the body, and we’re talking about Diabetes, Insulin Spikes, but post training the standard is, take in enough simple sugars so that your body can replenish the Glycogen that your Muscles used,” that creates and Insulin spike, Insulin is more Anabolic than Testosterone, so in its place sugars are extremely beneficial for maintaining Muscle Mass.

Matt:     Absolutely.

Jeff:       Which, is obviously beneficial for your Metabolic Rate, but you don’t want to be sitting on a couch eating high sugar foods, you know what I mean.  Because, it all comes down to what you’re trying to achieve, it all comes down to how you’re doing it, what else you’re doing.  So, these Diets and all the rest of it, there is no one size fits all.  So, what is important to you?  What are you trying to achieve?

Matt:     But strategise.

Jeff:       And, what is your hereditary—what does your personal wellness picture look like?  Do you have an issue with Kidney stones?  If so, you should avoid cheeses and things like that.  Again, Matt, I don’t want to step on your toes but these are just from what I understand.  You have to understand where you are, personally, and where you want to go, and this is the problem, I guess, people are lost Matt, they don’t know where to go…

Matt:     Well, that’s where you’ve got to back and you’ve got to refocus on your goals and priorities.  When we do Naturopath clinic one of the most important questions we ask people right at the start of the consult is, “What is your main concern?  What is the one thing that you want to achieve?  What is your goal?”  Everything is setting some sort of goals, and then creating a strategy to achieve those goals.  So, if we have a look at the different diets, like when you go through and summarise it, and you’ve seen it before, there wouldn’t be all these people telling us how amazing they feel on a Vegan Diet if they genuinely felt terrible.  There are so many people out there that switch to a Vegan Diet, and I believe Arnie is one of them, Arnold Schwarzenegger’s recently gone Vegan.

Jeff:       He said that he’s reducing his meat—Venus Williams is actually a Raw Vegan now.

Matt:     Is she?

Jeff:       Yeah, a Raw Vegan, which again, I do have some issues with because I consider it to be an extreme, but anyway we can talk about that.

Matt:     Yeah, we’ll talk about some raw stuff, that’s cool.  So, when you do the analysis the Vegan Diet, people that consume a strict Vegan Diet they do tend to live a bit longer, so it’s interesting.  When you analyse the statistics it looks like younger people in growth phases and stuff like that when growing can benefit from eating and Omnivore Diet significantly, but as you get to that age when your Metabolism slows down, when you’re looking at Longevity and stuff like that, the Vegan Diet definitely does seem to help.  It reduces the risk of Ischemic Heart Disease, so it reduces the risk of Heart Disease and Cancers; I think the Vegetarian Diet reduced total body Cancers by about 10%, the Vegan Diet was about 15% for total body Cancer, or maybe even less than that.

Jeff:       Wow, that’s pretty impressive.

Matt:     A definite reduction in Heart Disease, Cholesterol and that sort of stuff, and also an improvement in Insulin Sensitivity, not necessarily a reduction in Diabetes, which was quite interesting, but an improvement in Insulin Sensitivity and Lowering of Blood Glucose.  So, there are some benefits in the Vegan Diet, but what they did find was that there are some other problems with a Vegan Diet, for example, they are the most Acidic.

Jeff:       Really?

Matt:     Yeah, so Vegans have the highest level of Uric Acid out of all the groups studied.  Vegans also have a higher level of body Acidity load, and also a lot of the conditions associated with excessive Acidity like increased Bone turnover and Osteoporosis that was quite high in the Vegan group as well.  So, when you go through and research the statistics, and a lot of it is coming out of Europe, so you’ve got Danish studies, Finnish studies and that sort of thing, and they’re all showing a consistent pattern with certain Vitamin and Mineral Deficiencies.  So, low Calcium and low Vitamin D…

Jeff:       Again, if you’re Acidic, Matt, and I don’t know but my assumption is, and you will clarify if it’s wright, if your body is Acidic then it will pull Calcium out to help things a little bit.

Matt:     Yeah.  This particular study that listed the Calcium they’re actually talking about Calcium intake though, saying that when analysing their Diet, they ate less Calcium, but what you’re saying is exactly true.  If your body is too Acidic the body uses Calcium as an Acidity buffer, so it will actually…

Jeff:       Hence the Osteoporosis and the Arthritis and what have you?

Matt:     Yeah, exactly.  So, they’ll deplete Calcium out of the Bone.  That was always the argument about the Keto Diet, they said the Keto Diet is so Acidic, which it is because of the Keto Acidosis, you’re making a particular—this is a big thing, and sorry to waffle and that, but when people talk about Acid and Alkaline, you’ve got so many types of Acid, so you need to know, “What is my Acid?  Is my Acid problem Carbonic Acid caused in my Lungs and I get Panic Attacks, Asthma, all that sort of stuff?  Is my problem Uric Acid that contributes to Joint Inflammation, Gout, Arthritic Conditions, Fluid Retention, Swelling?  Is my problem Lactic Acid, again Panic Attacks, DOMs, Muscle Soreness, Aches and Pains, Anxiety, Worry?  Is it Pyruvic Acid, just poor Fatigue, Fibromyalgia those sorts of things?  Am I linked in with Ammonia Toxicity?”  So, when you’re, “I’m too Acidic that’s why I’ve got these things,” it’s like, “Which Acid?”  On your blood test you can look for Anion Gap on your blood test and Bicarb levels and they’ll tell you if your blood is borderline Acidic.  And, by the time it pops out of a reference range on a test you’re dead, like you can’t change that much.  But, doctors will measure this stuff and it will be sitting just inside the range.

For example, Anion Gap is something that’s listed on Full Blood Count, and Bicarb, so you can look at Bicarb as your blood Alkaliser, and your Anion Gap is the ratios between the Cations and Anions—you know, when we were talking about measuring the PH of your burnt food, that’s what it’s talking about, the Anion Gap of your blood.  So, if your Anion Gap is really at the high end of the range and your Bicarb is at the lower end of the range, then your body is struggling to maintain the PH in your blood, and it’s not going to be long before your blood does become Acidic, but in the meantime you’re going to have all this extra burden on your Lungs, your Kidneys and all these extra things.  So, have a look at your blood test to see Anion Gap, Bicarb levels.  Also, look at your blood test to see for Uric Acid levels and that.  You can then measure serum levels of Magnesium and Calcium, so you can get a lot of these Acidity buffers and stuff measured to see what your PH is, and at the same time you need to be measuring your Urine, your Saliva, and everything else, so that way you’ll get a full picture; “Here’s my blood, this is how my Lungs are compensating, this is how my Urine is compensating, and we’ll do a symptom picture for your Digestive Tract” because it’s too hard to measure the PH in every different step because that’s supposed to change.  So, it’s fascinating.

Jeff:       Well, Matt, all that comes down to me, and what I’m hearing you saying, it’s no wonder people are confused, and people need a starting reference point, so getting these blood tests and knowing then, “Okay, I’ve got too much of this type of Pyruvic Acid,” or whatever it may be, then they can actually address that issue.

Matt:     The Organic Acid profiles are a cracker way of doing it.

Jeff:       Are they?  How do you get them done?

Matt:     Go see your Naturopath or your Doctor, and it’s called an Organic Acid Profile.  They measure wee and blood and saliva and they measure for actual levels of Lactic Acid, Ammonia and all that, they’ll basically go through the different steps of your Krebs Cycle and determine the waste product production through each step, and then it will tell you what Acid problems you’ve got and where your Energy Production Pathways lie.  Often, it will find, “You’ve just got a problem with throwing in this Vitamin, or you’re deficient in this Amino Acid,” you’ll find little steps associated with the Krebs cycle are just screwed and causing a backlog or a dodge up Pathway.  Organic Acid profiles are really cool, Man.

Jeff:       That is cool.  So Matt, getting back then to the Diets, what are we looking at then with the Vegan Diet?  I mean you’ve said there are some benefits there in terms of Cancer and some other things, which are cool…

Matt:     Okay, I’ll tell you the deficiencies in it.  So, the big point is, because the Vegans eat a hell of a lot of fruit and veg they’ve got bulk levels of Antioxidants, crazy amounts of Phytonutrients, powerful Phytonutrients.  And, about the Antioxidants, intuitively I’d think, “They’ve got so much more Antioxidants than anyone else,” but all the studies done comparing Omnivores, Vegetarians and Vegans showed their Antioxidants status is very similar.  They didn’t have any higher level of Antioxidants on the Vegan Diet, but what they do have is a lot more Phytonutrients.  For example, the Sulforaphanes out of your Brassicas, very powerful NRF2 activators, and NRF2 Activators, typically found in a lot of plants and Phytonutrients…

Jeff:       They help with Cancers and stuff.

Matt:     Yeah, a very powerful anti-Cancer, a very powerful anti-Inflammatory.

Jeff:       So, therefore Matt, just off the top of my head, when you were saying that before, because obviously you’re eating so many calories until you feel full and satisfied, Vegetarians are removing meats from their Diet, so typically you would suggest that they’re probably a bit more health conscious than the average consumer?

Matt:     Yeah.

Jeff:       And, this is just an assumption, but maybe they are doing more of their smoothies and throwing in the Turmeric and the Ginger and the other things like that.

Matt:     Quite possibly.  Yes, and no, mainly because we’re still talking about humans and in amongst any group you’re going to have good and bad, so you’re going to find similar ratios of people that do that in amongst the Vegan group as you would find in the other group, because there are a lot of lazy people out there that just eat Vegan because they don’t like eating meat, maybe they’ve got low Stomach Acid.

Jeff:       Maybe they don’t like hurting animals.

Matt:     Yeah, so they’re not necessarily doing it for health conscious reasons.  Sometimes, even against all the evidence to say that they should not be following that Diet strategy they still will do it because they just don’t like meat.

What they found in the Vegan Diet:  low Vitamin D, so get lots of extra sun if you’re a Vegan.  The Calcium was interesting, and that’s what we were talking about when we got off track, so the Calcium they found they eat less of.  Now, I don’t know if that’s because in the study where the Vegans don’t eat the dairy and they’ve gone and said, “There’s less Calcium in the Vegan Diet because there’s no dairy compared to Vegetarian and Omnivore, even though you absorb bugger all of the Calcium in dairy.

Jeff:       I was going to say, you get more out of Broccoli.

Matt:     So, it’s an interesting one, because in my Naturopathic Clinic when I tell people to increase Calcium intake it’s got nothing to do with dairy, it’s Broccoli, Nuts and Seeds, Chia Seeds, Flours and Almond Meal and all that sort of stuff to try and get the Calcium in that way, and Vitamin D from sunlight, because they’re not eating animals that wander around in the sun.  And, B12 is a massive one, they’re always very low in B12 in the Vegan group, so Iron and B12 are both common Deficiencies.  But, interestingly, Iron and B12 are essential for the ability to carry Oxygen through your body.  Without the ability to carry Oxygen you’re automatically Acidic because, without Oxygen to Oxidise Fats and Sugars and that as a source of Fuel you’re going straight into Lactic Acid cycles, so that can contribute to it.

The other one that spun me out in the studies, they show consistently low levels of Zinc and Selenium.  Again, when we tell people to increase Zinc and Selenium in the Diet it’s Nuts and Seeds.

Jeff:       Brazil Nuts.

Matt:     Yeah, Brazil Nuts, Almonds, Pumpkin Seeds.  Iodine was very low as well.

Jeff:       Fish sources, of course.

Matt:     Iodine in seafood, yeah.  So, if you’re a Vegetarian or a Vegan…

Jeff:       Get some Celtic Sea Salt.

Matt:     Yeah, that’s right.  Or, use Iodised Salt, Celtic Sea Salt.

Jeff:       Not that table salt though?

Matt:     Yeah, I know.  So, Iodised Salt, eat Seaweeds, Sea Vegetables, so lots of Kelp and all that sort of stuff, Wakame Salad, I love that stuff.

Jeff:       Yeah, you do, you smash that.

Matt:     I love it, it’s beautiful.  But, Iodine, Zinc and Selenium Deficiency–they’re all such important cofactors for Thyroid Hormone Production, so again, with a slower Thyroid you’ll get very poor Metabolism and it slows you down.

Jeff:       I read somewhere, Matt, with regards to the Thyroid, especially for people that are Raw Vegans, if they’re consuming a lot of Kale and Brassicas and things like that you’ve got the Goitrogens to deal with as well.

Matt:     Exactly.  So, regarding Goitrogens what that means is, certain Sulforaphane compounds they can go down the wrong Pathway and make a—what do they call the bloody things?  Anyway, it’s a Toxic Compound that screws up the Thyroid.  What you’ll find is, the worst source for that is Raw Kale.  You know how people smack a heap of Kale in the thing?  Well, that can really smash the Thyroid.

Jeff:       Dinosaur Kale and [overtalk] [00:37:38] Kale.

Matt:     If you were to get it from Broccoli you’ve got to eat ridiculous amounts and it’s almost impossible to do it.

Jeff:       And also, a lot of its removed when you’re cooking it as well, Matt?

Matt:     Yeah, that’s right.  So, a lot of it’s in the Raw stuff, Raw Cabbage which people don’t do a huge amount of in a smoothie, but Kale it’s going everywhere, that’s a big one.

Jeff:       Yeah.

Matt:     The Vegan Diet, I’ll just quickly finish this, so it was low Calcium, low D, low Iron, B12, Zinc, Selenium and Iodine, Vitamin B1, B2, B3, B6, and Vitamin A.  It’s very interesting to see how low it is, and that’s not just in general saying it’s low compared to the RDI or whatever, that’s actually compared to Vegetarian and Omnivore Diets.  So, what’s interesting about those sorts of things is, we also talked about the importance of Stomach Acidity and everything like that to actually break down and absorb these Nutrients, so you need to actually liberate those Nutrients out of the food.  And, when we’re talking about Raw food, it would be interesting to see, with these statistics, to then break these studies down further and say, “Which Vegetarians of Vegans were predominantly eating Raw food?”  In cultural medicine, traditional medicines, and we talk about Traditional Chinese Medicine, Ayurvedic Medicine, they don’t have much Raw food, it’s not promoted.  I don’t know if you’ve ever seen an Ayurvedic salad, and I’m pretty sure they’ve probably got some, but it’s not—and, you even see the Chinese they’ll throw their lettuce in a soup, they don’t eat a great deal of Raw food and they don’t promote it.  Your stomach is like a pipe, your stomach’s got to cook everything up to be 100% soup before you can absorb it, so what actually happens, if you’re eating a lot of Raw food then it utilises a lot of your resources…

Jeff:       Your Enzymes and everything like that?

Matt:     Enzymes, Nutrients, your body’s got to work really bloody hard to break down this Raw food.  So yes, you get less Calories out of Raw food, which is good if you want to Burn Fat and that, but it also makes it harder to get the Nutrients out of the Raw food because you’ve actually got to break it down to liberate those Nutrients.  The good thing is, that breakdown and that liberation of Nutrients is happening inside your body instead of a pipe, but if you were making these veggies and you’re keeping the lid on it and drinking all the water—so, if you’re steaming your veggies…

Jeff:       Steaming, sautéing maybe.

Matt:     Yeah, let me finish, Man.  If you’re steaming your veggies you really should be drinking the water, like steamed veggies deplete all the nutrients.  So, unless you’re drinking that water—so anyone out there that’s steaming the veggies, one of the best things you can do is, so steam your veggies, the water that you use to steam the veggies throw a little bit of Ginger, a little bit of Turmeric, that sort of stuff into it and drink that water with your meal.  Have a hot—your steamed water—and, when you taste it you taste that’s where your Nutrients are, and you throw in a couple of other things that support Digestion and have that as a hot beverage with your meals then you’re getting a lot of the cofactors necessary to absorb the Nutrients out of those foods.

Jeff:       That’s a cool idea, Matt.

Matt:     Yeah.  And, if you have a look at soups and stews and that sort of stuff, as long as you’re drinking all the water and keeping a lid on it and catching all that stuff inside it then you’re [overtalk] [00:40:54].

Jeff:       You’re getting all the Nutrients.

Matt:     If you eat the Raw food be aware that you might need to give your Digestive Tract a little bit extra support with some extra Acid and Enzymes and things like that to be able to break down those Raw foods to liberate the Nutrients.

Jeff:       Well, I know, for example, with tomatoes that the bioavailability of Lycopene goes up 500% in cooked tomatoes versus non cooked.

Matt:     That’s why we tell people to use tomato paste for Lycopene.  The actual process of converting a tomato to tomato paste increases the activity of the Lycopene.

Jeff:       It’s funny, Man.  I don’t know what it is, whenever I’m eating salad I unconsciously push the tomatoes to the side, the raw tomato, but yet when I have casseroles or anything like that and there’s cooked tomatoes I love it.

Matt:     Yeah, I’m the same, I hate Raw tomatoes.  I always thought it was because Mum gave me these big chunk wedges of tomatoes.  We’re Aussie, like a typical Australian yobo salad would have been a couple of pieces of lettuce, a couple of big chunks of cheese, a couple of big chunks of tomato and a big chunk of carrot and it was just put on the side of the plate, just to feel obligated to do it with your meat.

Jeff:       Yeah, thanks.  Gees.

Matt:     So, with those Vegan Diets supplement with those extra things, making sure you’re getting the Zinc and Selenium out, making sure you’re having those Nuts and Seeds not just Cereals and Grains because you need those things.  Now, interestingly the Phytonutrients we talked about, the Phytates, they can actually bind to a lot of the Zinc and Selenium and inhibit the absorption which might be part of it.

Jeff:       So, it’s a timing issues.

Matt:     So, when you have a look at these things like Iron, B12, a lot of those B Vitamins, they all require a lot of Stomach Acidity to activate the Intrinsic Factors necessary to absorb it.

Jeff:       Clear them off and that?  Really?

Matt:     So a big important thing for Vegetarian Diet, to support that Digestive Tract without the high doses of meats and those sorts of things, which stimulate extra stomach Acidity is to supplement the Diet with extra Acid.  So, having a hot drink with your meals…

Jeff:       Miso soup?

Matt:     Like, veggie steam water is perfect there, throw in your Miso soup, not Green Tea.  So, don’t have Green Tea—well you can, who am I to argue with everyone in the world that does Green Tea, but if you want to absorb Iron don’t have Green Tea with your meal.

Jeff:       That’s also got problems with Goitrogens as well, doesn’t it?

Matt:     Oh yeah, EGCG though, that’s not Green Tea.  So I’m talking about pharmaceutical grade EGCG equivalent to having a shit load of cups of Green Tea; I don’t want to list a number in case I get…

Jeff:       Forty-nine.  Ninety-nine.  No, we’re bringing out infinity, and someone else will bring out infinity plus one.

Matt:     So yeah, if you do high doses of EGCG they can cause Thyroid problems, but the Phytates and that in the Green Tea can inhibit Iron absorption.  So, if you’re a Vegan that struggles with Anaemia just keep away from the Green Tea.

Jeff:       I mean natural Green Tea has still got a tonne of benefits.

Matt:     Yeah, just that bitterness and the heat will increase the absorption, it’s just the tannins inhibit Iron absorption.

Jeff:       Cool.

Matt:     So, wait till our Multi food thing comes out, we’re going to have all that sort of stuff in it.

Jeff:       Well, I was going to say, and I wanted to make a point out of that, we’ve been so much research recently, Matt, and we’ve already done the podcast on Vitamins, you know, “Why your Vitamins are Killing You?”  And, we’re going to do a podcast, Matt, on Question Everything, which is just going to be short, maybe five minutes on a few different topics.  There is some amazing research going back to 1983 on fortified baby formula and vitamins, some stuff that will just make people—and, again, I’m just putting it out there, I’m not going to—like we said at the beginning, there’s some interesting information that I think people need to be made aware of, but I have a hypothesis but I’m not going to say this is 100% truth.  It’s like anything, right?  It just requires more information.  What I’m trying to get to is, the damage that synthetic vitamins are doing is going beyond.

Matt:     Oh Man.

Jeff:       Here’s an interesting one; for example, did you know that with scurvy, in the Limeys and it took the bloody medical profession of the day the best part of 100 and something odd years to go, “No, we do believe that people need Vitamin C,” even after it was discovered; it took so long for them to come around and go, “Okay, yes we do.”  They thought it was hygiene, they thought it was whatever.  Anyway, if you give someone who’s got Scurvy Ascorbic Acid, which is what most people call Vitamin C in their supplements it will not stop their Scurvy.

Matt:     Yeah.

Jeff:       And, okay, so then it’s benign, it’s just useless.  No, it’s worse than that, it’s actually worse than that.

Matt:     Because, you need the cofactors.

Jeff:       You need the cofactors, because we talked about the Vitamin Paradox and that.

Matt:     It’s the same with Folic Acid.  If you give someone Folic Acid it doesn’t do the things that a mixed Folate combination will do.

Jeff:       Again, you’re better off having your leafy greens and all the rest of it.  So, Matt, specifically for the Vegetarians, and I wanted to go through some of the other Diets, and maybe we’ll do that at another time, but we’ve got some FAQs to get into as well, too.

So, with all the things that they’ve recommended, Matt, you’ve mentioned using Brazil Nuts for the Zinc and Selenium.  For the B12 Matt, now obviously most people get that from meat, so what’s a Vegan going to do?

Matt:     No, most of the B12 that we get is actually from our Gut Flora, so it’s actually a Bacteria feeding on our green leafy veggies that puts B12 into our body.

Jeff:       Oh, okay.

Matt:     Yeah, so that’s the way to do it, maintain your good healthy Gut Flora and eat, again, lots of your leafy green veggies, but you also need good levels of Stomach Acidity to activate the whole process otherwise it can’t start.

Jeff:       So, Vitamin in sunlight is probably the best thing for Vegans?

Matt:     Vitamin D from sunlight, Iodine from sea vegetables, Zinc and Selenium from again, Nuts and Seeds.  Increasing the Acidity in your Stomach to actually help the digestion and breakdown these, and the on flow through the Pancreas to be able to break those things down.

Jeff:       What else, other than Miso Soup, Matt?

Matt:     Miso Soup is one of them.

Jeff:       Vinaigrettes?

Matt:     Yeah.  Hot water with a bit of lemon juice, lime, apple cider vinegar, and again your vinaigrettes like you’re saying, combining an Acid with an Oil into a salad dressing, even having a salad entrée with a vinaigrette is enough to prime the stomach, let the stomach know.  Even positive affirmations work, not eating on the run, sitting down focusing using your mental power to say, “I’m going to actually absorb these foods.  My body is going to do whatever it takes to take these good Nutrients out of these foods.  It’s going to take what’s great, it’s going to take the colours, it’s going to take the flavours, it’s going to take the Phytonutrients and the smells, and all those wonderful things out of the food.  Everything that I need to sustain my life is in this food.”

Jeff:       It’s really funny, eh?  There’s a lot of science now…

Matt:     Little positive affirmations and things like that.  Some people might say Grace; if they can’t convince themselves through mental power that they’ve got this ability to control the way their body utilises food then they can do exactly the same positive affirmation by saying, “Thank you for the work and everything I’ve done that allowed me to get this food on the table, but right now I’m focusing on this food.”

Jeff:       Well, Matt, it’s amazing.  I looked at things like The Secret, and a lot of people would have heard of that, where they talked about one of the most powerful emotions, which seemed to have a physiological effect, was gratitude.  With Grace, and I mean I grew up in a Christian home, and the prayer that would go was something like this, “Lord, thank you for the food that we’re about to eat, bless it to our bodies.”

Matt:     Exactly.

Jeff:       So it would be like, “Okay, so we’re actually saying, “Thank you for this food, I’m taking the good nutrients into my body for it.”

Matt:     And, notice that none of these things say, “I’m not going to have an allergic reaction.  I’m not going to take the bad stuff, I’m not going to take the Fatty Acid, the Saturated Fats out of this, I’m not going to take the Salt…

Jeff:       There was no focus on negatives.

Matt:     No, it’s only—because you’ve already done [00:48:32], and just to use the big point words, you know.  So, saying, “I’m going to take colour, I’m going to take fragrance, I’m going to take Phytonutrients, I’m going to take all the amazing things.”  If your life is full of positivity—I mean there is only so much data that can come in and out of our body.  We don’t have the ability to change what data we’re exposed to but we’ve got the ability to fill ourselves up on what we want to focus on.  So, we’ve got the ability to focus on positive, light, happiness, health, good stuff; you fill up your life with that and there’s no room for the other stuff.  Yeah, a shadow is not a shadow, it’s an absence of light, you know what I mean?

Jeff:       Yeah.

Matt:     So, it’s a matter of filling things up with light to keep the dark away.

Jeff:       It’s very metaphysical and it just makes me think of the interview we did with Ken Ware as well, there is so much about the body, there’s so much about emotions, there’s so much about thought processes, there’s so much about these things that are not defined by science that are interesting.  And again, I’m not saying this is 100% the way that it is, but there’s enough there that makes me think that definitely there’s more to learn.  So anyway, what else Matt?

Matt:     So, when you look at the Vegan Diet, yeah they’ve got less Cancers, less Heart Disease, but they did have some other weird health things, like they’ve got worse Bone, they had weird problems with Body Composition changing and that sort of thing as well.  Interestingly the Vegan Diet caused really high levels of Sex Hormone Binding Globulin…

Jeff:       So, they weren’t as sexy?

Matt:     No, it reduces their Testosterone levels and that sort of stuff, but very good for PCOS though.  So, Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome—a lot of the research for those with PCOS they do really good switching to a Vegan Diet as long as they’re very smart about it and maintain good healthy Oils and not just going to a high Carb.  So, you get someone with PCOS and they go to a Vegan Diet that’s just basically breads and cereals and they get fat and terrible.

Jeff:       Stuffed, yeah.

Matt:     You get someone that goes to a Vegan Diet with lots of good quality Oils, Low GI foods and that sort of stuff, the fact that it increases Sex Hormone Binding Globulin binds up all their Testosterone and improves Insulin Sensitivity, it’s really good for PCOS.

Jeff:       It makes sense.

Matt:     The meat eating Diet was really bad in the sense that they had a lot more Inflammatory markers.  There’s another thing to look for on your blood test to see if you’re going to die or not is C Reactive Protein.  Get the doctors to test for CRP.  CRP is a marker of Inflammation within your Arteries, it changes before you change, so if you’re on a bad track your CRP will go high, and it’s a sign that you’ve got Inflammation and it’s possibly contributing to Cancer, Heart Disease and Age.  Then, as you fix your lifestyle the CRP will fix before Blood Pressure, Blood Sugar, so you can use it as a marker to know if you’re on the right track or not, it’s a really cool one.  When they did the studies on CRP between the Diets, the Vegans and Vegetarians had significantly less CRP than the meat eaters.

Jeff:       Right.

Matt:     The other interesting thing that I found, because I was trying to work out, why they had less Cancers and all these other things, and their Antioxidant status was very similar, so they had more Phytonutrients but they had a lot less Inflammation.  When they looked at the Oil ratios meat eaters had a lot more EPA, DHA, so the activated forms of the Omega 3 Oils that we need in our body because they come from meats, but they also had higher levels of Arachidonic Acid, which is a very highly Inflammatory Oil, really high in Pork, and you’ll see now I can’t eat Pig because it makes my foot hurt.

Jeff:       Well, you’re Jewish, Matt.

Matt:     Yeah, and I’m actually really upset because I keep smelling it and it is everywhere, and I realise how much I love bacon.  Anyway, we’ll change the topic.

Jeff:       No, it’s funny, isn’t it?  I think there’s a fantastic word in German for bacon.  Anyway I don’t…

Matt:     Cannibalism.  Because, I did a heap of research and now I’m freaked out.

Jeff:       Well, it’s funny, because a lot of religions won’t touch Pork for many reasons, but because biologically it’s very similar to human flesh.

Matt:     Yeah, apparently it smells the same when you’re cooking it.

Jeff:       I’m still eating it, I don’t care.

Matt:     I don’t doubt it.  Yeah, so it’s interesting.  The meat eating Diet had high levels of Arachidonic—so, if you’re a meat eater and you want to have similar longevity as a Vegan, what it works out to be, is if you eat predominantly fish and keep away from the red meats and you keep away from high levels of Pork, in particular, if you go for grass fed lamb, grass fed—so, organic grass fed red meat, not farmed fish, ocean fish, then you’re going to get a really good Essential Fatty Acid Profile similar to that of a Vegan where you get much less Inflammation.  The healthiest Diets that came out for things like Uric Acid, for Oil levels, for Inflammatory markers, was a predominantly Vegetarian Diet supplemented with Protein from Fish.  So, that was the Diet, when you do all the studies and all the analysis, eating lots of Nuts and Seeds, Fruit and Veggies and then throw in a bit of Fish for your Protein, that seems to be the healthiest Diet.

Jeff:       And, obviously red meat, specifically for women as well too, for their monthly cycle, but also for Iron as well too.  So, maybe red meat once or so a week?

Matt:     Yeah, yeah, and just try to get organic and grass fed.

Jeff:       Grass fed, and don’t char grill it though.

Matt:     But, you can also get your Iron out of other sources, so no one really needs the red meat according to the research.

Jeff:       [00:54:13].

Matt:     Yeah, the Fish I love it, though.  But, like I’m saying, everything in moderation you do it.  But, the studies have pretty much shown that a predominantly Fish diet with a lot of vegetables and that sort of Phytonutrient herbs and spices that’s the way to go.

Herbs and Spices is one thing we didn’t mention, that’s a very important factor.

Jeff:       Matt, that’s a whole podcast on its own.  But, as far as Omega 6 as well, in the Western Diet we do consume too much Omega 6, it’s out of balance.  Correct?

Matt:     Yeah, mainly because our sources of Omega 3 foods are now taken off Omega 3 forage and put onto Omega 6.

Jeff:       Right.

Matt:     So, the majority of the world’s Omega 3 comes from grass and plankton, so the problem is, a grass fed animal will have an Omega 6 to Omega 3 ratio of about two to one.  So, like kangaroos or whatever, anything that’s wild game that’s allowed to just forage naturally, Omega 6 to Omega 3 is about two to one.  If you spend a short period of time on a grain feedlot or supplementing the animal’s grass diet with grain, which is the grass seeds, so it’s just the same thing.  In the wild they’d be eating a lot more of the grass with a little bit of the seed, and then what they’re doing is they’re selectively taken off the seed and giving them that instead of the grass and they’re getting all Omega 6.  A short period of time on a grain feedlot, from weeks to months, the two to one ratio can go out to about 30 and 40 to one.

Jeff:       Yeah, it’s crazy.

Matt:     They believe for human health the ideal ration is about six to one, but the average human is sitting at about 20 to one.  But, if you go on a grain feedlot, so, if us, as animals, go onto a grain feedlot, so if our diet is predominantly based on Cereals and Grains we end up with high Omega 6, but if we consume Omega 3s, not necessarily by consuming grass, but by eating animals that eat grass, they accumulate it, and eating animals that eat plankton they accumulate it in.  Algal sources of Omega 3 are fantastic as well, so that is possibly the future of Omega 3 supplementation.

Jeff:       Is that like Corella and all that sort of stuff?

Matt:     Yeah, looking for grass and plankton sources of Omega 3.

Jeff:       It’s funny, and it always comes to mind with regards to grass fed, and this is talking about horses as far as eating the crickets and the other stuff…

Matt:     Well, there is no Vegan animal on earth, you know that, eh?

Jeff:       Yeah.

Matt:     No Vegan animal, because insects are animals, and so there is not one natural foraging animal on earth that will selectively pick the ants out of their grass.

Jeff:       Because, when they’re eating, and with a lot of cultures, I still see a lot of the Asian cultures specifically, eating spiders and..

Matt:     Yeah, [00:56:55] stuff.

Jeff:       Because, they’re unbelievable for Collagen aren’t they?

Matt:     Yeah, Glucosamine, the majority of Glucosamine on the market at the moment is coming from left over shellfish.  So, with the seafood industry they go through and peel all the meat out of the prawns and crabs and stuff like that, and all the left over shells get sent off, bleached, and processed to make Glucosamine.  It’s horrid eh, when you really look into the sea food based Glucosamine market.

Jeff:       Oh, it’s Pandora’s Box.

Matt:     Yeah, you don’t want to look into Pandora’s box.  She’s a sl…

Jeff:       Stop it.

Matt:     So, basically—I can’t remember—yeah, so basically animals have to eat insects otherwise they get Arthritis.

Jeff:       There’s got to be benefit, and again, Nature knows best, and while their eating this it’s looking after their Joint Health and everything else that they need.  We again get that through that as well, too.  Correct?

Matt:     Yeah, exactly.  If we eat the Collagen from the animals.  That’s a problem too.

Jeff:       So, the Bone Broths?

Matt:     That’s why you’ve got to eat everything, the Bone Broths, the connective tissue, all of that stuff.

Jeff:       Haggis.

Matt:     Yeah, like the Tripe, the Vietnamese Pho, with all of the Collagen connective tissue, that’s where all the gold is.

Jeff:       Yeah.  Matt, I do want to talk about the meat eaters and the way that people are more—I don’t want to say a standard diet, because there probably isn’t one now, but the traditional Meat and Three Veg, but we’ll get onto that another time about what they can do to improve their profile to maybe reduce their risks of Cancer and stuff like that.

Matt:     Yeah.

Jeff:       But anyway, as far as Vegans are concerned I think that’s a really good place to leave.

Matt:     If you just quickly look at it, with those meat eaters, if they would have learnt from the Vegans and eat a lot more of the Phytonutrients, so a larger bulk of vegetables, like predominantly fill yourself up with vegetables, limit the amount of Protein you’re eating to be Protein adequate.  Like, high Protein does nothing, extra Protein just converts to sugars and waste, so you need to be Protein adequate, you need to make sure you’ve got enough Protein just to satisfy your requirements, and fill yourself up with fruits and vegetables and nutrients, because we need the extra Folate, we need the extra NRF2 Activation, we need the extra Anti-inflammatory stuff that the Vegans get and the meat eaters don’t because they’ve been ‘meaters’…

Jeff:       Yeah, the ‘meaters’.  And, the other thing, Matt, and we can talk about Protein adequate, I know that’s a can of worms as well, too.  More is better always.  There have been studies and I’ve even recently seen them questioned as well too, that 20 to 30 grams of Protein is the most that a human can absorb at any one time with Whey Protein and things like that, 10 grams per hour they are effectively saying.  I mean, obviously, it comes down to deficiencies.

Matt:     What about the new research coming on Branch Chain Amino Acids and possibly causing Diabetes?

Jeff:       I did not know that.

Matt:     Oh, well we’ll leave that for the next one.

Jeff:       Yeah, leave that for the next one.  But again, I think people are going, “I’ve got to have 40, 50 grams of Protein and I know that it works, but how much of that is converting over and is being used for energy as opposed to actually helping with building and repairing Muscle Tissue?  But, you’re right, Matt, because I know you’ve always said that people do consume more Protein than what they need, even if they are body building.  But, I guess they’re coming from a point of view…

Matt:     Oh, you can tell that.  Do you remember in the Arnolds Trade Show…

Jeff:       The smell of Sulphur?

Matt:     The smell of Protein farts; you know these people are consuming a hell of a low more Protein than their body can utilise.

Jeff:       But it’s interesting, what they’re going to say is, “Yeah, I’m going to err on the side of caution, I’d rather give my body more than what it needs, knowing that it’s going to convert into energy therefore I’m not going to be deficient and miss out on any single ounce of gain.”  So, I understand it.

Matt:     Oh, we understand.

Jeff:       So Matt, we’ve got some FAQs to do after all that.

Alright, the first one is from Duane:  “Hi guys, just a few things on my mind, but where do I start?  I’m a shift worker that works a seven on seven off roster, it changes between nights and days.  I work a 91-hour work week while I’m at work and it’s labour intensive, plus hitting the gym after work on day shifts and before work on the night shifts.  I’ve used ATP for a long time but for some reason drifted away, don’t ask why?”  Why, damn it?  “I’m reasonably fit and work out four to six times a week.  I still can’t shake the stubborn Fat on my love handles, this has always been a problem for me.  I’m back on the T432 but for some unknown reason I ended up with a different brand TEST BOOSTER – not happy?  Well of course, if you’re not using ALPHA MARS no one would be happy.

“I guess I’m a bit confused about when to take what while I’m doing the different shifts.  I’m not finding it hard to sleep on night shift and crashing on a day shift.  I was thinking about SUBCUT and BLOCK E3 to butter up with, and ditching the Test Booster to change to a PRIME, but when should I take it all?  I’m heading out tomorrow to pick up some AMP V so I can really start my days with a bang.  Any help on timing of my supps would be great.  When should I be training?  Love the podcast, makes the flight, bus ride very interesting.

                So, you’re talking about Fasted Cardio in the morning as soon as you wake up, could something as small as brushing your teeth of chewing gum change the effects of Fat Burning?  Considering the spike in Insulin from such a small amount, I’m assuming artificial sweeteners, no one wants bad breath.”

Interestingly enough on that, and I’ve got some opinions on that, but the AMP has got the Peppermint in it, so even if you’re Fasted Cardio and you whack down the AMP even if you do have bad breath, Halitosis or whatever you call it, Matt, it’s probably going to mask that, to you the truth.

Matt:     Oh, bloody oath.

Jeff:       So, the smell of Peppermint is pretty strong.  My opinion is, it comes down to sensitivity; small amounts of artificial sweeteners for me, when I was on the Keto Diet, didn’t necessarily throw me out of Ketosis, but for some it will, and you even read on Keto sites that can happen.  So, a lot of that comes down to you as an individual.  Matt, what’s your thoughts on brushing your teeth and chewing gum?

Matt:     Chewing gum is worse because the actual chewing process tricks your body into thinking food is coming, as well.

Jeff:       The saliva, yeah.

Matt:     So yeah, definitely chewing the gum I’d avoid, because it’s trying to tell your body that you’ve eaten.  And, it will create a certain amount of changes which your body will then realise that the Calories didn’t arrive and then compensate back, but it might be the slightest hurdle that is just enough to slow down your gains.

Jeff:       I mean you were speaking before about that, Matt, even if it’s a small Insulin—or, even if it doesn’t register Insulin the mechanics in your body start gearing internally to accept Carbohydrates.

Matt:     It also depends on how fit you are too, because the more Obesity you’ve got and stuff like that, the more exaggerated those effects are as well.

Jeff:       Right.  So, if you’re really fit and healthy a small amount of change, but again, it could be a small hurdle.

Matt:     It’s negligible, you know, in the big scheme of things, the teeth brushing.  Chewing gum not so much, the chewing gum is a definite action and it tricks your body into thinking – so, not only are you getting the sweetness but you’re also getting a non-nutritive sweetener, plus you’re getting gums, resins, fibres, and you’re getting the process.

Jeff:       So, while it wouldn’t stop Fat Burning it might just put that little hurdle in there, so probably best not to.

Matt:     Back to the other stuff; with that different brand Test booster the one ingredient that I’d be very wary of—there’s a couple, but if your Test booster that you’re on has D-Aspartic Acid in it I’d definitely stop, because if you’ve got the love handles you’ve got the Estrogen Dependent Tissue, and the D-Aspartic Acid can increase Aromatase activity in those particular types of Fat, and that will convert a lot of your Testosterone to Estrogen and hold onto that.

So yeah, the PRIME would be a really good idea, and the way to use PRIME would be, when you’re doing your shift work, as you finish your day with your last meal of the day have two PRIME, then have another two PRIME just before you go to sleep.  The PRIME then will help not only to do the Testosterone Boosting and the Estrogen Detox, which you need to get rid of love handles, you’ve got to strip out that Estrogen, but it will also flatten Cortisol and allow you to have a deep sleep and try to retrain that body with that shift work into sleeping better, which is actually when you’re going to be doing all your Detoxification.

And, you’re right, butter up with SUB CUT and BLOCK E3, so do both of those twice a day after your shower and do SUBCUT again before you train.  So, PRIME, SUBCUT, BLOCK E3, and AMP V, that’s the protocol you want.  And, with that other Test booster it’s hard to comment on another product, especially without knowing the ingredients – or, even if we knew the ingredient list it doesn’t mean we know the bloody ingredients.

Jeff:       Yeah, that’s true.

Matt:     But, just avoid D-Aspartic Acid, in particular, and there’s a couple of others, like Wild Yam ingredients…

Jeff:       Bulbine Natalensis; good in theory but it’s dose dependent.

Matt:     [Genastine] [1:05:37] and that sort of stuff.

Bulbine Natalensis, from memory is [15 milligrams] [1:05:43] per kilo body weight, so you’ve just got to get the right dose for your body, and it was a very strict bell curve in the Bulbine Natalensis studies, meaning that you’ve got a very small window of opportunity to get it to work.  If you’re not hitting that [50 milligrams] per kilo of body weight, if you’re taking too much it actually stops working and if you’re not taking enough it does nothing, so you’ve got to get that right.  And, again, you’ve got to base it on what you can read on the label, and hope that they’ve given you the information you need to actually dose it properly.

Jeff:       And, then everything else that you’re taking needs to be in the right ratios as well, too, because if you get the right Bulbine Natalensis but it’s got other stuff in there, that could cause all sorts of problems.

Matt:     But, you could have spiked up the other stuff, yeah it’s a bit trickly.  Bulbine Natalensis is good, you get it by itself though.  If you get Bulbine Natalensis from a legitimate supplier, because there are a lot of dodgy ones now, and dose it up at 50 milligrams per kilo body weight, take it by itself, you can get it to work.

Jeff:       We were looking to bring it out but it just wasn’t going to work, Matt, it was just too difficult for the average person to make it work.

Matt:     And, sorting through all the dodgy suppliers too, it was going to become like a Tribulus scenario where there are so many rubbish suppliers of Tribulus out there it’s actually tarnished the name, you know, people have used these things and go, “It didn’t work for me, why would I bother using your Tribulus?”

Jeff:       It’s only the Bulgarian stuff that’s any good.  The interesting thing with regards BLOCK E, I like first thing in the morning after your shower and then last thing before bed at night.  With the SUBCUT, yeah if you’re on a Calorie Deficit Diet, first thing in the morning.  It’s great to use the AMP and the SUBCUT together before Fasted Cardio, then come home, have a shower then put the BLOCK E on.

Matt:     And, do SUBCUT again after your shower as well, so it’s on all day.  You want to keep both of those creams being on pretty much—do them twice a day so all day every day you’re getting their actions, and then you just spike up the SUBCUT around training.

Jeff:       Cool.  Anyway, I’m going to send you out an AMP V, an ALPHA MARS, a PRIME, a BLOCK E, and a SUBCUT.

Matt:     Holy hell, are you serious?

Jeff:       Yeah.  Well, actually he wrote this question a while ago, so apologies for not getting back to your sooner.

Matt:     I thought he might have offered you something else, he might have sent you a boob photo or something.

Jeff:       Cut that, Toni.

Alright, this one is from Kira: “Hi Matt and Jeff, you guys are absolute legends.  Your work has left a huge mark on so many people’s lives and both deserve a massive hug guys.”

Matt:     Oh, that’s nice.

Jeff:       We’ll be in line for that, I like hugs.

“I would like you guys to give my case a crack because I cannot figure it out.  I started working with a Naturopath two years ago and feel I need to open up to Western Medicine as I have had no results.  My back ground in a nutshell:  I have a history of IBS, Pelvic Inflammatory Disease, Antibiotic Use, always a sick kid.  Tonsillectomy at the age of 10, a family history of PCOS, and Diabetes Type 2.  I completed three months of Weed Seed Feed Protocol at the end of 2015 using Intestaclear, Saccharomyces boulardiiand and Probiotics.  All IBS symptoms gone, but still get gassy on wheat.  I had Blastocystis & Dientamoeba, which was the reason the Naturopath put me on the Protocol.

                To target my weight loss my Naturopath put me on OestroClear in 2016 which gave me severe Abdominal Pain and I had to leave work.  This severe pain comes back every second bleed and I feel is linked to my left Ovary.  My left side of my body has always had more Cellulite and Pimples, so I’m guessing my left Ovary will be the weak link.  I’ve been on a number of Liver support supplements—Matt, you can read those ones that she’s on, including N-acetylcysteine.

Matt:     Mm.

Jeff:       “But, I still wake up with a hangover if I have three glasses of wine after an entire night out, so just three glasses of wine in the whole night.  I’m still working with my Naturopath for my Thyroid health using another brand, SFN.  I’ve also been on Adrenal support complex throughout the four years and I’m currently on—another complex, Matt, which you made which she loves, funnily enough.

Matt:     Cool.

Jeff:       “I have reduced most Environmental Toxins in my skin care, plastics and deodorant.  I follow a Paleo style Diet, eight hours of sleep each night, I make my own Kombucha, but I do have a massive appetite for a girl and I can binge when I stressed, maybe two times per month leading up to my Menstrual Cycle, but it will be on foods such as Peanut Butter, Sweet Potato, Hot Cocoa with Stevia.  I have a personal trainer twice a week, and do Fasted Cardio four times per week.  My Body Fat Percentage has not fallen under 32% and my measurements have not decreased ever.  My trainer does not know why I’m not seeing results.  The way I train you would think I could be a bikini model, but I have Fat that is everywhere and I get so upset when I look at myself in the mirror.

I’m currently on—Matt, I’ll let you read those products there because I don’t know what they are—including Probiotics, N-acetylcysteine, and Cod Liver Oil.  I also take a Fat Burner in the morning before exercise—which is a [1:10:47] one, Matt—I have tried a tube of SUBCUT in February and no improvements.  My Hair is falling out, more over the last couple of weeks, which makes me scared—it sounds like the Thyroids are in there, trouble there.

“A friend said to go on the OCP to see if it will help, the last thing I want to do.  Since my health journey has taken me so far with Gut Healing but I’m not happy with the body shape.  Is it Adrenal, is it Estrogen, is it Thyroid?  What is the break on my Fat Loss?  Thanks guys.”

Matt:     It’s interesting, eh?

Jeff:       Pretty comprehensive.  Has it given you enough?

Matt:     Yeah, yeah.  Interestingly, and this is a common thing, you think you’re falling apart because you’re seeing symptoms all over the body.  It’s kind of cool because it helps us find patterns.

The fact that it all started with being a sick kid with the Antibiotics and having to go through and do all those sorts of things, that is actually probably been a major contributing factor; once you’ve disturbed your Gut Flora in the early days that led to IBS, Pelvic Inflammatory Disease, the Antibiotic use, that degree of Inflammation coming from your Gut can contribute to the Insulin Resistance associated with the PCOS, Type 2 Diabetes that was already in your family history.  So, we’re looking at an Inflammatory Gut condition that’s probably triggering the whole process.  The end result of Inflammatory Gut problems is that it disturbs everything else in your body, and basically, your body can’t afford to wait to see if you’ve got another Inflammatory Trigger from your Gut, or if you’ve got Stress or Poison or Venom or whatever.  So, what happens is your Adrenals overwork, yes, and that screws around with your whole system, because your body says, “Why would I bother with maintenance and repair if I’m not going to survive the day?”  The next thing you know the Thyroid is playing up, the Estrogen is playing up.

The end result is, Inflammation in the Gut causes Stress, the Stress shuts down the Gut forming a vicious cycle where dodgy Digestion, Poor Digestion, Overgrowth of Microbes and that sort of stuff in your Gut has contributed to Excessive Inflammation, that Inflammation has contributed to Excessive Stress, that Excessive Stress contributes to Enhanced Gut Permeability or Leaky Gut Wall, which leads to more Inflammation, and the whole process continues.  Then, what happens is you’re constantly getting Cortisol secreted to tell the Immune System and Inflammation to switch off, that causes Estrogen to go high in certain parts of the body.  What else makes Estrogen go high in certain parts of the body is when other parts of the body are high in Testosterone associated with a Cyst probably on your left Ovary, from what you’ve described.

So, the Inflammation and the Insulin Resistance was probably the causative factor, but it doesn’t change the biochemical trap that you’re in now, and just targeting Gut Health and Inflammation is not necessarily going to fix the problem.  What we need to do now is get this Thyroid cranking.  Symptoms of low Thyroid is Bloating, Poor Digestion, Leaky Gut Wall, as well as loss of Hair, Poor Metabolism, Fluid Retention, Poor Circulation, Fatigue, and generalised Weight Gain, like it’s just inability to move Fat from everywhere.

Now, insert disclaimers and stuff, we’re just going by the information you’ve sent.

Jeff:       Sure, go see your doctor.

Matt:     I can’t do this testing; I can’t look at you through this to see what particular body type or if it’s isolated.

Jeff:       You could do what they do on Playschool where they go, “I’m looking at Gemma and John through the…

Matt:     Square window?

Jeff:       Yeah.

Matt:     Oh yeah.

Jeff:       Okay Matt, sorry.

Matt:     I probably won’t.  I could.

Jeff:       Anyway, get back to Kira.

Matt:     Back to Kira through the Arch window.

Jeff:       Nice.  So yeah, go see your doctor.

Matt:     Yeah, the Stress and the Inflammation is what causes the Liver to go out of whack, and when the Liver goes out of whack you’re not processing your Hormones through properly, so it’s really hard to comment, but what I would do is I’d definitely do something—the one thing you’re not doing is supporting your Thyroid, making it run faster.  But also, measure your MTHFR Gene Polymorphism, and start taking big doses of Folic Acid, B12 and B6.

You’ll find with the products your taking it’s never going to break the cycle.  I’d get the T432 Plus, and I’d take two tablets three times a day.  You could always measure your Thyroid Hormones, or you could just treat it and see what happens.

Jeff:       So, do you think the major thing is probably the Thyroid, Matt?

Matt:     I’d do ALPHA VENUS and Thyroid, because you’ve got to break the Estrogen and Thyroid link.

Jeff:       How many ALPHA VENUS and how would you take it for this condition?

Matt:     I’d take two twice a day of the ALPHA VENUS, and I would take the T432 two tablets three times a day.  Keep taking your other products, that’s fine, and then the other thing that you’d want to do is do something to support your Methylation and Sulphation Processes.  So, high doses of Folate, B12, B6.

Jeff:       Yeah.

Matt:     You’re using some Metagenics products there, that Adreno one that’s fine.

Jeff:       You created them didn’t you?

Matt:     Yeah.  And throw in a B Complex.  Metagenics make a B Complex which has got B12, Folate, B6 in nice high doses, so throw those in as well.

Jeff:       They’re not as good as our Multi though.

Matt:     Oh hell no, but ours isn’t out yet.

Jeff:       Yeah.  Alright Matt.  Well, give that a go Kira, we’ll send you out a T432 and an ALPHA VENUS, and let’s see how you get on.  It sounds like you’ve done some work, and hopefully this will just push…

Matt:     Yeah.  I just want—these sort of stories bug the hell out of me.  The good news is, you’re going to be fit as a fiddle and you’re never going to die, even with that Body Fat percentage.  But, it’s just so hard to hear people that do all the hard work and don’t get the results they deserve.  She’s just stuck in a biochemical trap, but we’ve got to work from where you’re at now.  We know the causes and you can treat—this is the problem with Naturopathic philosophy sometimes, you can get so hell bent on thinking, “I’m a Naturopath so I have to be alternative to the way Western Medicine works.  So, I can’t be treating the symptoms, I have to treat the cause,” but if you don’t go through and treat the person where they’re at and break that biochemical trap they’re stuck in, you don’t even get a chance to treat the cause.  So, you’ve got to break the cycle first.  And, what we talk about is find the minority and the majority.  You go through, and by just addressing the end Hormonal Profile we’re at now 80% of these problems can disappear, then you’ll be left with your dodgy Gut, then you can spend your time focusing on the Gut, but you’re still getting results for your biochemical pathways.

Jeff:       Yeah, it totally makes sense.

Matt, we’ve got time for one more—we’ve got a heap more but we’re not going to get through them.

So, this one is from Russell.

Matt:     G’day Russell.

Jeff:       “Hi guys.  I’m a massive fan of the podcasts, I’ve been tuning in for a short time but love it so far.  A few questions to be asked and hopefully you pair can help with your wealth of knowledge.  I have been Dieting for the past three years with a body building coach and have seen some amazing results, but one place that refuses to move is my Belly Fat, just under the belly button and stubborn love handles.  My supplementation is on point, I use the ALPHA PRIME two in the morning, along with a fibre and a green shake with apple cider vinegar, Vitamin D and Omega 3.  Lunch and smoko breaks are weighed out meals and along with the meals I take two T432, and I currently eat four meals a day.

                When I work out it’s all heavy weights in the evening, no stim pre, and I take two CORT before training and post workout, and usually a Protein.  I have also started to use SUBCUT again, but it’s early days and I’ve also started using PROTOTYPE 8 in conjunction with my pre workout.  At night before bed I take two ALPHA MARS, two CORT RX, and more fibre and greens, along with Magnesium Powder from an Australian company.

                What more can I do to help these stupid stubborn areas that I hate and put me in the worst mindset when it’s the only thing I want gone at the moment?  Oh, and stretch marks; I used to be rather large when I was in my early 20s, 135 kilos at 6 foot 2, now I’m 93 kilos, around 11% Body Fat according to the callipers.”

Matt:     Oh, good on you.  Gees that’s impressive.

Jeff:       “Sorry for the long email guys, hope you can help me.”

                Yeah, it bloody is.  Mattie, what do you reckon?

Matt:     The problem is, when you were large what happens is you go and build these new compartments, you go and build sections to take over the excess, like Fat Cells, and not only Fat Cells but the Trabecular Mesh and all of the Connective Tissue that creates these compartments to not only hold the excess Calories you weren’t burning, but to also hold the Toxins and all the other stuff.  So, what happens is, this Subcutaneous Fat Tissue can become so isolated and so compartmentalised that the rest of the body, the hierarchy, doesn’t know what the hell is going on.  So, this Fat Tissue that you’re talking about it’s probably as close to dead useless Tissue in your body as you can find, it’s going to have a terrible blood supply, because it’s so isolated, like you can grab hold of it and it feels like it’s not even attached to your body other than the fact that it’s anchored to the base of your skin, it’s apart from everything inside, it’s so detached.

So, you get a very poor nerve supply, a very poor blood supply, which means anything you’re using orally is not even likely to access that tissue at all.  You’ll find that Fat Tissue there is going to be making chemicals, it’s still biologically active making stuff, but it will be also using that stuff locally, it’s not contributing anything back to your bloodstream.  So, the fact that it’s not contributing anything back to your bloodstream, and it won’t be contributing much Inflammation or Fat back to your bloodstream, which means, how the hell are you going to burn it?  It may as well be a passenger, it’s not contributing to anything happening within your body, and your body probably doesn’t even know it’s there.

The only way you’re going to move it is with a Transdermal; you’re going to have to go the creams, and you’ve got to wake it up.  So, you’re basically going to have to get in with the SUBCUT and BLOCK E3 twice a day after the showers.  Do dry skin brushing.  This is what you do, so before you have a shower do dry skin brushing, like scrub the shit out of it with a loofa or a vegetable bristle brush, have your nice hot shower, get out of the shower, butter up with BLOCK E3 then butter up with SUBCUT.  Then, when you go training use your PROTOTYPE 8 all over those Fat bits as well…

Jeff:       With your SUBCUT?

Matt:     Yeah, with your SUBCUT.  So, SUBCUT and PROTOTYPE 8 before your training on your Fat bits, even if you’re training arms I want you to put PROTOTYPE 8 on your Gut.

Jeff:       Right.

Matt:     And then, what you want to be doing is doing that again towards the end of your workout, the SUBCUT and the PROTOTYPE 8.  The PROTOTYPE 8 is really going to help to increase that dry hardness in through that Muscle area and mobilise the stuff as part of your training program, but it’s all about waking the stuff up, so you’re going to have to do a combination of dry skin brushing, hot showers, and serums, and massage the stuff right in.  As you’re massaging it you’ll notice within one or two weeks that this Fatty Tissue will start to feel different in your fingers.  So, as you’re massaging the SUBCUT in grab hold of it, and what you’ll feel is the Fatty Tissue, you’ve got to break the stuff up, that’s the whole point, we’ve got to break it up and liberate it.  You’ll start to feel the Fatty Tissue get lumpier, it will actually feel weird, like your popping bubble wrap underneath your skin.  You’ll feel that some areas will empty out and other areas might get grainy and that sort of stuff, so you’ll feel it changing as you’re massaging through, and then you’re moving it.

In regards to Stretch Marks; I’ve got a few things that I’m looking into at the moment.

Jeff:       I’m going to trial one of those things.

Matt:     Yeah.  But, you’ve got to realise—the best stuff that I’ve found, after using it for three months they’re finding an 11% improvement in the appearance of the Stretch Marks.

Jeff:       Yeah, it’s not great.

Matt:     It’s—I mean—I don’t know; I don’t think they work very well.  I mean if I did something every day, every day, for three months I would expect to—you can imagine an 11% improvement in the appearance of a Stretch Mark is like…

Jeff:       One of the things for people with Stretch Marks that might be beneficial if you can’t remove it completely, is maybe take away the red angry—you know how some people get that red angry look as well, and other people have got the white–

Matt:     Some get the silver white and others get the red purple.

Jeff:       I’d rather have the silver white than the red any day.

Matt:     Unless you get a tan, that’s the problem.

Jeff:       Oh yeah.

Matt:     So yeah, I don’t know.  Tattoos work.

Jeff:       Yeah.

Matt:     That might be why they get all the floral thing up their legs and up their hips.  Like me, I’ve got that floral…

Jeff:       You’ve got that tram stamp Matt.

Matt:     Just tram stamp, T bar?

Jeff:       Yeah.

Matt:     I actually just got a tattoo of a G String above my shorts.

Jeff:       Yeah, John finds it intriguing.

Matt:     He keeps trying to grab it.

Jeff:       What do you mean?

Matt:     With his teeth.

Jeff:       So, the SUBCUT and the BLOCK E3, and what else Matt?

Matt:     PROTOTYPE and a loofa.

Jeff:       Loofa?  Well, we don’t have loofas, so PROTOTYPE 8, and Matt, I’m going to throw in an AMP V as well too, because the AMP V, you were saying if I remember correctly, is for when you are losing Body Fat it helps to self-destruct the Fat Cell and makes it’s more difficult to put the weight back on.

Matt:     Yeah, good idea.  Because, there is a self-destruct mechanism in Fat Cells just like there is in Cancer Cells and every other Cell.

Jeff:       It normally takes months and years for the body to generally go through and say, “Right, this has been vacant for a while, let’s destroy it,” but with the AMP V, Matt, you’re confident that it can actually increase the process and speed it up?

Matt:     Yeah, and the other good thing about the AMP is its ability to make Brite Cells, which is turning White Cells brown.

Jeff:       Yeah.  Because, what’s the difference?  So, the white Cells are easier to Burn or hide…

Matt:     No, no.  The brown have the ability to convert Fat to Heat.

Jeff:       Yeah, and the body will go for that, and then the white ones are poor Blood Supply, the body goes, “It’s been there for a long time, let’s not move it because we’ve got…

Matt:     People were saying, “You’ve got these Cells and these Cells,” but people didn’t realise that you can actually speckle white Fat with brown and make it more biologically active.

Jeff:       Which is what you want.

Matt:     And, the same thing with the self-destruct mechanism, you can activate those genes, and it’s all done through PPAR Receptor modification.

Jeff:       And again, there’s a great article, Russell, that you can go and listen to on the AMP and how it works, where we talk about PPARs and all that sort of stuff.

Matt:     Oh yeah.

Jeff:       But Matt, how to use it?  Obviously pre workout?  Definitely pre Fasted Cardio, but it’s great to use before weights as well too, it increases grip strength 36%.

Matt:     Yeah, for performance, massive.

Jeff:       So, there are some definite improvements for using it.

Matt:     There’s a whole massive group of people using AMP just for performance, with nothing to do with the Fasted Cardio and the Fat Loss, they just will not train without it because it works better than a pre workout.

Jeff:       Yeah, and you can sleep afterwards as well, without being too stimmed, and not…

Matt:     And, try it in your coffee, I’m addicted to that.

Jeff:       The ATP Bullet; AMP Bullet.

Matt:     Yeah.

Jeff:       Alright, that’s all we’ve got time for.  And Russell, let us know how you get on.  Matt, that’s all we’ve got time for.  Last word?

Matt:     Hooroo.

Jeff:       That’s your fall back.

Matt:     Yeah.

Jeff:       Thanks guys for listening and we’ll be back next week.