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Episode 208 – Weight Loss – Adaptations and Variables

In this episode of the ATP Project, Jeff, Matt and Steve chat about weight loss Variables. The guys talk about the various diets, macros, micros, hormones and what signs to look for when your body may be beginning to adapt and prepping for the changeup to prevent plateaus.

Podcast Index:

00:01:05 – Podcast Start

00:03:40 – Calorie deficit and metabolic rate

00:05:52 – VLC Diets

00:08;16 – Aitkins diet study

00:09:59 – Fat loss – measuring change

00:12:41 – The ways the body adapts to a calorie restriction

00:17:53 – listen to your symptom picture

00:20:16 – laws of nature – eat seasonally

00:22:57 – Objective measurements determine what you should be eating

00:25:13 – Deficiency in Omega 6

00:31:20 – Being skinny fat and working out with weights

00:35:03 – Manage what you measure

00:36:43 – Increase calorie yield and weight gain from the microbiome

00:39:29 – Microbiome and weight gain

00:41:33 – Eating enough calories

00:42:52 – Matts weightloss journey with Mick Galley

00:44:56 – Angst and weightloss

00:46:10 – Insulin resistance and fasted cardio

00:53:56 – The process of getting better/fitter

00:55:26 – Final thoughts

01:05:34 – FAQ-01


Matt:                                     Welcome to the ITP project. You’re with your hosts, Matt, Jeff, and Steve, and today we’re going to be talking about how to lose fat. How do you get into losing fat? What are some of the questions? What about some of the diets? What about your macros? What about if it fits your macros? We’re going to be talking about all that, all the handbrakes to losing fat. So sit back and enjoy.

Steve:                                   As always, this information is not designed to diagnose, treat, prevent, or cure any condition, and is the information purposes only. Please discuss any information in this podcast with your healthcare professional before making any changes to your current lifestyle. Stay tuned. The IDB project is about to start.

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Jeff:                                       Welcome to the ITP project. You with your host Matt, Jeff and Steve. Good. I twice.

Matt:                                     Hey you doing?

Jeff:                                       I feel like a long [inaudible 00:01:10] since we’ve been together.

Matt:                                     [inaudible 00:01:12].

Steve:                                   Anyway, I feel like I’ve never left the room.

Matt:                                     There, [inaudible 00:01:16] goes.

Steve:                                   It doesn’t help that your office is literally attached to the boardroom movie. But that’s where I was.

Jeff:                                       Guys. We’re gonna be talking about that last handbrakes today. And really what I love about, this topic in particular is that there’s so many opinions and so many, how would you say passionate opinions with regards to different types of dieting. I mean, and we’ve got everything from, fed, weight loss diets. I mean, soup diets and lemon diet.

Matt:                                     Lemon detox [inaudible 00:01:48].

Jeff:                                       And then you’ve got right the way through the hardcore guys, people like Dave Palombo who really loved the ketogenic based diets and a Big Greenfield as well too, for performance obviously for different things. And then obviously people who have got, issues with the brain as well to using kiddo based diets as well too for certain things.

But when it comes to weight loss, there is some issues that I think a lot of people face that feel like don’t get addressed. And some of it can be, you’re not sticking to your diet and let’s face it, there’s a big one.

Matt:                                     It’s probably the biggest.

Jeff:                                       But a lot of it can be other issues in the body and building up, the body adapting to a certain stress, and that’s one of the things would sort of, we were sort of kicking things ran down in the bullpen with the other staff before just talking about what is it that, what are some of the reasons why people don’t get the results from their fat loss campaign that they should? And it’s multiple and varied. And we’re going to talk about a few of those today.

So if you’ve been on that journey and you’ve been frustrated, or if you’ve got clients and all the rest of it, and we know we’ve said this before, that don’t just assume it’s the fact that they’re not sticking to it. I mean and look, let’s face it. That probably could be a cause, but there’s a lot of other things to take into consideration. So.

Steve:                                   It was just a matter of pushing the throttle. Hate some dorms. It’s a matter of removing some of those handbrakes. The big point too though is the hardest bit is to actually know when you’re likely to respond to a particular strategy.

Once or when you’ve hit a plateau. When you’re no longer responding, you’ve adapted to that strategy, badly, and when it’s time to change. The big thing is what we’ve noticed with a naturopathic clinic experience and what we’ve noticed in dealing with athletes. I particular diet next or exercise strategy that you create designed around calories in, calories out.

It is a stress on guys like putting someone into a calorie deficit is a stress. We will have to adapt to that stress for survival sooner or later. The short term adaptation to the stress associated with calorie restriction is burning off some excess fuel you’ve been storing.

And then we’d go into a, what we burn something off. We were talking more about what your burn off light out. But when in a calorie deficit we’re going to be burning something. Maintain now needs based on our current metabolic rate.

And so a metabolic rate has gotten a lot of factors influencing it from muscle mass or to the thermic effect of food. The thermic effects of exercise energy expenditure associated with, all different factors, will determine your calories out, calories even as equal, equally variable.

But what we’ve got to understand is if you do the maths and you create a calorie deficit based on what we know about your current metabolic rate, one of the ways our body will adapt to that stress is altering our metabolic rate.

Slowing down our metabolism let me get to the point down. Now, maybe calories in to a certain degree will determine our calories out. You know?

Jeff:                                       Yeah.

Steve:                                   So what we’re going to teach people today is how that accurately take a, oh no, I bet accurately, but had it take some objective and subjective markers of your current starting point.

We wanna work out how to get you where you want to be, but we need to be able to monitor changes, to the objective and subjective data, to know if you’re heading on the right track or if this particular diet strategy’s not working for you or whether you’re stuck in a biochemical track, which is putting too much handbrakes on your ability to lose fat.

So that, and the most important thing is to teach you how to work with your coach to know if you’ve done the exercise. If you measure, if you’ve done the math right and measuring your food you’re, you’re doing with intensity and things still aren’t working, we need to be able to go back with some accurate data to show a particular hormonal profile or something like that and then know how to adapt to that.

Jeff:                                       Well. One of the things that I wanted to mention just quickly as well too as well also for the lay people out there as well that just go look, go and see a doctor or what have you and they go right on going on to just shakes now and I’m going on onto a VLCD diet.

Which is a very low calorie diet and what’s dangerous about these diets and we’ve all heard about you’re dieting before as well too, is that you lose quite a bit of white at the beginning and that could be a mixture of things, not necessarily just fat, which is obviously what people are trying to lose.

And we’re talking to a doctor Naji which we’ve got a podcast coming out a little bit later on which is ACO [inaudible 00:06:18]. Where he talks a lot about this as well too, in those diets is that people get what they deem to be success.

I remember used to be watching the biggest loser as well too and on TV and people would be sitting there and they’d be in the gym working out with whites, which is a good thing because obviously the more muscle mass that you’ve got, the, highly metabolic rate’s going to be, and then there would be dieting and there’ll be exercising and all the rest of it.

Now they didn’t take any measurements in terms of circumference, which is a, it’s, it’s a good, it’s not infallible, but it’s a good place to look. They’d get onto the scales and our members, some of these people sometimes would be crying because they’ve lost no weight or even sometimes put a little bit away.

Now they might’ve actually lost a little bit of body fat, especially if they are obese. You can lose quite a bit of body fat quite quickly, but they weren’t measuring what matters is the same as these VLCD diets. You might lose, let’s say over a month you might lose, five, six kilos or whatever it may have been, but if you’ve even lost half a kilo, a kilo of muscle, and some water and some fat, you’ve lost the driver, which actually helps you to burn calories through the day.

And these are the hidden sort of numbers that I know specifically that fitness coaches and people who understand the importance of muscle, the importance of protein, the importance of consistency. These are the ones that they get really upset about when they hear of people going on to these fad diets, if you like.

And these calorie super restrictive diets because short term gain, everyone’s happy. Oh my gosh, I’ve lost so much kilos and all the rest of it. Fast track. A few months down the down the track, the Diet softens a little bit and all of a sudden the white comes pouring back off.

Matt:                                     It’s incredible to talk to people about losing weight and losing fat without creating controversy. There’s so many different diets. There’s, [Atkins 00:08:01] as you said, numerous of them. And in 2007 there was a massive trial done and published in the Journal of the American Medical Association, which looked at four of the more common diet at the time in the zone diet, the Ornish diet, the heart foundation diet, and the acting start.

And, they measured hot and fat loss and the heart rate. And they found the best diet was the Atkins start, despite the fact that they were told not to restrict calories. And it also improved their cardiovascular profile is much better than the other diets, particularly at the heart foundation dye, which pretty much made people worse. So, which is not surprising. That’s a very poor diet.

So, there’s a lot more to this. And, what they found is started is they all work for weight loss. Atkins was the better one by about double, but they all work, they all have some validity to it. So it’s a really tricky area and very controversial.

Jeff:                                       But, and I know that there’s a lot of people that actually hate Keto diets, especially a lot of the guys that are into muscle and building muscle tissue.

Matt:                                     The adaptation as well.

Jeff:                                       So the, I mean the loss of carbohydrates from glycogen fought, fought for muscle. And by the way as well too, I mean the picture that I have, which a few of my friends laugh about because it seems to get re posted all the time, was when I got into really good shape is always on a ketogenic diet. But I did seem to do it easy and I responded quite well and I was, I was pretty good shape.

Matt:                                     Botanic?

Jeff:                                       Absolutely not. She goes on to Quito, she not, and it doesn’t matter how long she stays on, she absolutely knows dive. So this is the one size does not fit. So it also comes down to your goals, what you’re trying to achieve, which is what I sit at the podcast. If it’s about body composition or if it’s about other, performance related, like, Ben Greenfield, great podcast by the way, highly recommend going and listening to Benny knows a lot about performance.

Hopefully it will be actually interviewing him towards the end of the year be yeah, I’m at Lake Tahoe. But hopefully, but, anyway, it’s one of those things that in terms of, there’s different reasons for different diets, but specifically around fat loss. That’s obviously what we’re looking at today.

Matt:                                     Very much so. So, the interesting thing about fat loss is, is as mad correctly pointed out, it’s about measuring and seeing your results. So I think the most important thing is at the end of the day, are you winning? Is your waste getting smaller, your thighs getting thinner?

And I think that’s what the most important thing it meant. Teddy’s about measuring and making sure you’re on the right track because there are many, many options for you out there. If you’re not doing something that’s not working is no good and keep doing it. It’s a definition of internally because you get some great data there on different cycling diets and that’s[crosstalk 00:10:26].

Steve:                                   Where do we start is the big point. And before you start, you know when most people start?

Matt:                                     Where?

Steve:                                   Tomorrow, cause I gotta [crosstalk 00:10:35] covered Monday,

Matt:                                     Monday.

Steve:                                   I’m going to empty the cupboard, dog bought all this shit food I’ve got to get rid of before I start my daughter.

Matt:                                     Yeah.

Steve:                                   Not the best place to start. What we do want to do is take some measurements. The first place to start before you do anything, take some relatively accurate measurements. Now I’m going to say relatively accurate cause I don’t, I still don’t know the most accurate way of measuring body composition.

But what you want to do is if you have a coach that has a particular method that they use, whether it’s a combination of white with circumference, whether it’s calipers, whether it’s Dick’s, so whether it’s body composition analysis, your bioimpedance analysis or anything like that.

And none of those things, I don’t believe a perfectly accurate. Okay. But we should be out. If we keep the testing method consistent like day of the week, time of the day, the person’s grip strength, the same locations for measuring, we should be able to accurately measure change.

So we should be able to see, but we can’t just take one data point or Jeff said if you just looking at white, you’ve got no idea. But if you combine white with type measurements then you get a bit of an idea of where the change is occurring.

If you do white type measurements, end bioimpedance analysis or digs or something, we’re getting more and more data. That’s all objective. So objective is like when we can use your tape and get a number, we’ll get a number off the machine and watch that number change. That’s important to see what’s happening.

But it’s usually the last thing to change. And we know for a fact when you’re on a fat loss journey or something like that and the white doesn’t change, I said, you’re building up muscle, just stick with it. All of a sudden your metabolic rate is going to build up and you get that and that’s going to all fall off at once or your water might change.

So the objective measurements, usually the last thing to change, it’s really important to take what we call subjective measurements as well, which is what we call a symptom picture. So if you go through and you document accurately someone symptom picture.

So, but it handy if you know what symptoms are associated with what things, because we’re going to talk about the ways their body will adapt to a calorie restriction, or a calorie deficit. And the why it reacts is as a stress. Okay?

So that’s a stress. We get elevations of Cortisol. we slowed down our thyroid hormone to slow down your metabolic rate. We basically tell the gonadal system, you’re not that important. We don’t bother giving energy for detoxification processes and survival mechanisms as such for longterm maintenance and repair.

So the point is if someone before they start their diet journey, is has a symptom picture manifesting hardcore desal, high stress, someone that’s manifesting a slow thyroid, someone that’s manifesting estrogen dominance or something like symptom picture, then you can then make a diet and exercise strategy more specific for them.

So for example, if you’re looking at all your dietary options that you’ve got the low carbohydrate diet seem to work really good for people that have got a symptom pizza or a diagnosis or stuck in a biochemical trap associated with insulin resistance such as a type two diabetes or PCOS.

Or they may have the family history of it and all the symptom pictures you might go, man, for you, go ahead we’re gonna focus on glycogen deficits. Maintain that insulin sensitivity. We going to structure a diet around, making sure your insulin works.

Then those people would get a better result than someone that just went through a standard diet that everyone did. So they’re measuring a symptom picture to see if someone’s got a predisposition to a biochemical trap that you might be able to not just structure their diet and exercise, but add in some functional ingredients.

So then all of a sudden you see this insulin resistant profile. Let’s make sure that each meal they’re going to throw with a cinnamon’s in. We’re going to look at glycaemic index, we’re going to look at fiber. We’re going to look at all those sorts of things more specific to that person.

You might find someone who’s symptom picture manifests or high cortisol or a predisposition to stress it through questioning. You might find they’ve got an autoimmune or an inflammatory issue that might significantly alter their progress. You’ve got to give them some anti inflammatory foods or take away some allergens or something that might be making it worse.

You might also then question that person about their personality trait and find that they do everything with angst and height and aggression. And if you go and tell that person to train harder and eat less because you’ve got fat because you don’t train hard enough in your week too much, that could be enough to just destroy that.

Matt:                                     I’m biggest loser.

Steve:                                   In regards to cortisol. Exactly. Then they might be losing weight, but they might be doing everything with angst and intensity and ingression they might be stripping off all their muscle, preserving a fat around their internal organs.

You would see if you have a combination of objective and subjective measurements, you would see as their symptom picture represents more cortisol such as, I’m starting to get anxious. I’m not sleeping well, I’m wired, but I’m tired. I’m starting to feel a bit depressed or can’t switch off my mind.

I’m holding fluid and that at the same time you might see that the measurements around their quads and biceps might be reducing all the measurements around the abdominal waist area might be maintaining or increasing.

And then you can go, oh wow, so this particular strategy we’re using for this person, they’re losing weight, but they’re not losing fat into the regions we want. They’re losing muscle, so they’re about to have a flip where it’s going to shut down on them.

Now, in our experience with athletes and the general public, that adaptation to that new diet, calorie restriction could be three days or three months. I don’t bloody know, and there’s no way on a podcast we can teach people that you’re going to adapt to this diet within three days or three months. How could you do it?

That’s why it’s so important that people work with their coaches and their healthcare practitioners that can actually take the objective measurements, keep a subjective measurement. We do a symptom picture thing through ITB signs so that they can use so someone could contact to be science and work with our natural back to collate the subjective symptom picture of they want and then get that printout to their coach said, monitor this and get that coach to follow up on those symptom pictures to go, oh Jeez, that the HPA axis has gone crazy.

The thyroid access seems to be slowing down. The gonadal access as Lucy, I think you are under a bit of stress. Then we might be able to go back to the people and go now ease their stress too much angst in training, too much aggression in life and that sort of stuff.

Ease their stress purely that we’ve cut the calories too much, is this or is it an inflammatory? Have we told them then to supplement with something that’s creating an allergic or an inflammatory response?

Jeff:                                       You know so well, I mean there’s, there’s lots of things. I know with Tony specifically when she was doing crossfit, she got in great shape but she over did it. She was actually over-training, and again, this is where the individual needs to be taken into consideration based on your adrenals, your hormones, your individual makeup.

So it’s like it’s [crosstalk 00:17:25] not the old thing and I mentioned it quite a few times. You’ve got that, pertinent lived to 105 smoking a pack of cigarettes.

Steve:                                   Yeah exactly.

Jeff:                                       And drinking a bottle of whiskey every day, right?

Steve:                                   Yeah.

Jeff:                                       Whereas somebody else gets a puff of, indirect smoke and it causes cancer. So yeah, everybody is different. And so working and understanding your limitations and what you can do just because person x has done it does not necessarily mean that you can based on your makeup and I’m not, again, it’s really important and I can hear a lot of couches going, no.

Yeah, because you don’t want to make an excuse for someone not to push themselves, but you do have to listen as you say, Matt is the symptom pitcher. You don’t want to push yourself high intensity training, which has obviously got a lot of research around that at the moment, 29% more effective. I think at burning body fat than cardio.

Steve:                                   Yeah [crosstalk 00:18:09].

Jeff:                                       But that’s not the whole story now. So yeah. Also relative, you’ve got a perspective, someone like myself might do high intensity training for like [crosstalk 00:18:20] an hour or five minutes, and just about die, but I could walk for a couple of hours.

Matt:                                     Yeah, if it’s like 30% more effective, but I do 10 times a duration of a steady state stuff. For me personally, I might burn be better off doing the more zen style training. Then the more intensity, even though it might access [crosstalk 00:18:38].

Jeff:                                       But it’s also what you can maintain for a long period of time. You might be able to do it for a week, two weeks, three weeks, 12 weeks and you see there’s a lot people do, right. I’m going to do a 12 week challenge and go out. They do a 12 week challenge, they get to the finish line and then it’s like done. It ticked off. No more [crosstalk 00:18:54].

Matt:                                     Exactly, healthy is not a goal. It’s a process. So you’ve got to, cause you can’t just reach your goal and net it. You’d never have to try way. It’s all about dealing with humans, the human being. So the human being may not like high intensity training and they’ll never do any exercise.

I’d rather them go for that 30 minute walk in the morning before breakfast, watching the sunrise and listen to the birds and I get a bit half puffed, whatever. But at least they got to do it. Yeah. Because in my old days when I graduated or everyone was off to the gym and everyone was eating his perfect diet and everyone was going to do this and nobody did any of it really, they just said, no, it’s all too hard.

Jeff:                                       But everything was an angst and intensity. And if your body doesn’t know the difference between the life threatening stress and yeah, you just hate yourself because you ate cake, it’s exactly the same profile. But if you combine that with a long, relatively chronic stress such as I longterm calorie restriction or a particular diet every day forever. We’re all going to adapt.

I don’t believe there is one diet that is going to work in everyone. And I believe when they do, if someone did design that one diet, it will be a cycling diet. That they have this my one diet basically incorporates all the diets and we cycled through them like last season [crosstalk 00:20:05].

Matt:                                     Got four stages. There’s some diets that have different types, but you’re absolutely right because you won’t find.

Jeff:                                       Atkins for example. Let’s just, I’m one of those wankers. It always goes back to the laws of nature and things. What if I was just stuck somewhere and I’d realize that there would be three months of the year or something that I’d have an abundance of fruit in an area where I’d have a higher carbohydrate diet. T

There’d be another three months of the year where those fruits are gone and might be snow or something like that. And then I’d eat the animals.

So I might go through a phase with the nature. I might go through a phase of, high fat. I mean even if you were to look at the intuit groups, so I think there is a settlement. Is there a section of the year where they can plant and grow stuff or is it pretty much all year around that they got to, eat…

Steve:                                   It depends on where they are. The Arctic Circle, if they’re too far north, they can’t plant anything but a little bit south of the Arctic Circle. They can.

Jeff:                                       Yeah, so I think what we’re looking at is as a general rule, we’re going to, he’s going to be one diet and even you farm one door that worked for a person and you’re still going to have to cycle through and adjust the calories.

So if we go back to that starting point, you go through and you take some objective measurements on your body, you guys, right? This is where I’m at. I’m not going to judge you on that point, but we are going to judge you next time. We see you to make sure that you’re achieving some things because no one can judge someone in their starting point.

We’ve then got to assess that they’re heading in the right direction, but at the same time, if we’re not taking into consideration symptom picture, looking for other hormonal imbalances by chemical traps, they might be stuck in. Then of course the assumption is that they’re not following the plan. They’re not burning enough. They’re eating too much, so.

Matt:                                     We’re going to look for all those other causes because they are the no one and published facts of why we will adapt to a diet. Cortisol, thyroid, Leptin and Ghrelin, micro nutrient deficiencies.

All those sorts of things are the reasons why we will, we’ll stop responding, but we need to know before the objective measurements plateau before the objective measurements start going the opposite way. The subjective symptom picture will give us an indication.

So when we start, we take all of that starting point data. Then when people come back, follow up, we do measure their objective, but we also double check the subjective measurements because people forget how they feel. You [inaudible 00:22:12] there Steve, you, someone would come in, man, I ever headaches every day.

It’s ruining my life on wetting the bed every night. And I had this rash that he’s destroying everything that I wanted,[crosstalk 00:22:21]. And then they come back. That was Steve.

Steve:                                   Yeah sorry.

Matt:                                     And then when Steve Come back the next week and I said, how do you feel? And he says, Hey, I feel a great deal different.

Steve:                                   I’m done with the [crosstalk 00:22:30].

Matt:                                     And I said, do you get headaches every night, Steve anymore? And he’s got, actually I haven’t had a headache since I’ve seen you. You still got that rash? And he says, no, I’ve got a different one. And yes, I still wet the bed at night, but that’s an emotional issue. So like, but you’ll see people forget how they feel.

So it’s important to check to chart those progress or they think they’re falling apart. Everything’s going to prove because I have a symptom issue in every system and you didn’t know I can see the pattern.

So objective measurements to start with based on those measurements are going to determine what you’re going to eat. and this is the typical starting point.

So we’re going to determine what is your, basically that will often we’ll start with protein because through the whole body measurements they will determine your muscle mass or use your total body weight.

And if you’re looking at your total body weight, they’ll say, okay, so 1.2 to 2.2 grams per kilo body weight for your total body weight. Or if we can accurately measure your muscle mass, it can go up to 3.2 grams per kilo body weight if you’re lifting weights and blood, but your coach will work out your protein allocation.

The fat allocation, they might [inaudible] the data that I’ve read a lot shows that 30% of the allocation of that seems to be that across the board is a very healthy range of good fats.

Some people, I wouldn’t go below 20%, so they’ll give you a protein allocation based on your muscle and fat allocation on what’s a healthy range of fat to be eating. And then the calories will be made up with the carbs.

So we will alter the carbs depending on where they are in a calorie surplus or a calorie deficit. Then we’ll create an exercise strategy that works for you.

Steve:                                   That works , what are you gonna do?

Matt:                                     When I say we, I’m not talking about me, I’ve never, I don’t do this. As a naturopath, I do the stuff. When this doesn’t work, you come and tell me everything that’s gone wrong and I’ll see if I can find a hormonal handbrake or something, explain it, and then we give you some functional foods or supplements to fix that.

But your coach will start at this point and then they’ll work at the exercise plan and then it’s pretty much we’ll come back and measure that.

So all we’re talking about here is adding in some subjective measurements to see if the body’s adapting through stress or hormonal profile. Because that way what we can do then is we can look at your protein allocation and start having some fun and she can actually start looking at that protein allocation and gun, right?

Let’s look at some functional proteins and different amino acids are things we can incorporate into that. We can look at the fats and go, right, let’s analyze these fat profile. What’s this type of fat? Does this person need? Are they needing more of the saturated fats? They are six.

There’s a massive trend. I’ll tell you an intro. I’ll give you a spoiler for what’s coming up in the future. We’ve just gone through an era telling everyone that I’m grinds are bad and all that sort of stuff’s bad. Grass fed’s good and everything.

We have a actual starting to flip. We used to have this problem where we had a deficiency of Omega threes in accessing the mega seeks a lot of data coming out now saying that in athletes in particular and a restricting grains are restricting cereals. They go on low carbs.

They’re actually deficient in Omega six and Omega six is really important for or anabolic activities.

Steve:                                   Is that a [crosstalk 00:25:28] racket.

Matt:                                     Well, they’re inflammatory mediators that indicate you damage your muscle tissue and enhancing the ability for your muscle tissue to regenerate, which is catalyzed by markets such as arachidonic acid, which are inflammatory mediators that showed damage into a tissue that are actually derived from Amigos six oils.

If we don’t have enough of them where we don’t get the damage, we don’t get the regeneration. They also control a lot of the angiogenesis processes.

Steve:                                   [inaudible 00:25:53] new blood vessels.

Matt:                                     New blood vessels for the new fueling of the tissues and vasodilation and that sort of stuff. So we can look at someone’s protein, carb and fat allocation and start incorporating functional foods. We can start with within that allocation. You know what I mean? So you’ve got to set 200 grams of protein per day.

We can look at allocating 15 grams to Collagen, and making sure you’re covering your complete proteins with the trip to fans from other foods. We can look at functional foods within your carbohydrates. We can start using some of that flavoring agent garlic’s and onions and tumerics and all these other spices that are very, very powerful thermogenic compounds and that sort of stuff. They have a very big effect on inducing thermogenesis other than just protein, postprandial thermogenesis.

Steve:                                   It’s very interesting because you mentioned protein and what we know about protein scientists that it basically us full for longer, which is great for humans who are trying to eat less. So that’s a good way to have calories, but don’t, don’t cry.

The next food also, we know something about thermogenesis and protein. We know that higher protein diets at about 45% increase the thermogenesis in the body by about 10% and if you have a high carbohydrate diet, across this study here, published in the British Medical Journal last year, it drops the basal metabolic rate by 5%.

So you have these, you can change your basal metabolic rate using proteins. And that was conveyed to 15% protein diet, which I hope nobody has, but it’s a low budget. But that’s actually what the hot foundation Dottie, so unfortunately.

Jeff:                                       Wow.

Steve:                                   Yeah. They stored them in 15% prior to any your diet. S amazingly, up to 60% carbohydrates. So 55 is the standard one and the rest of fat, which is just a train wreck of a dot. And that’s why it’s always shown to be a fighter guy.

So the protein we know keeps you full, longer ink increase thermogenesis. So that’s a good macro nutrients to start looking at for them in genesis. And of course the medium chain triglycerides are great fat for burning as well. And there’s some other great ones are conjugated linoleic acid fats and as you say, the nice balance of Omega three and Omega six. Even optimally we should have four times more media sixes. Then we have Omega threes. It’s usually a four to one ratio sometimes.

Matt:                                     And they the one to two to one.

Steve:                                   Yeah.

Jeff:                                       And then flip to the other side.

Steve:                                   Yeah.

Jeff:                                       But the standard dot though I think wasn’t as something like 16 times [crosstalk 00:28:07] one was common.

Steve:                                   60 to one is what you get a grant on a grind feed lot [crosstalk 00:28:12].

Jeff:                                       Omega six is over Omega three. So that the ratio was so out, which was that [crosstalk 00:28:19] Israel.

Matt:                                     Israel was, on average I think was 24 to one for my memory. Oh yeah. Piper that was across the population. And they believe that to be the major cause of insulin resistance and then diabetes or diabetes and obesity. So yeah. But yeah, the two to 141 they talk about a grazing animal. It should be sitting around two to one. So.

Steve:                                   It’s funny because Matt, Matt mentioned the bet, what if you’ve got insulin resistance in this study that I quoted before found that the people that respond better to the higher protein, lower carbohydrate diet, had more insulin resistance.

So that was a fascinating study on, on protein or fat ever instinct. And in this study, they actually match the amount of calories they had. Everyone had 2000 calories across the board that it’s changed the proteins and fats and carbohydrate.

The more protein you add, the more thermogenesis shade. So based on your calorie and fat and call it a budget, if you have more protein in it, it’s more thermogenic.

So there’s a beautiful gruffy that I’m sure that will be put up by, the thing that, but basically a piler, they look at this it’s going to magically appear. This graph show.

Matt:                                     You’ll be able to talk to [crosstalk 00:29:23].

Steve:                                   Yeah that’s it. So terrific study.

Jeff:                                       That is because what that actually showed Steve just for perspective is that, correct me if I’m wrong, but they showed the group with the, the calories out. By, from the different macros split, the guys that did the lowest carbs had a 10% greater calorie’s a calorie expenditure over the baseline.

They’d burn more calories out. Yeah, I have that. What, 2000 calories I’ve been in now the 200, just by eating, [crosstalk 00:29:53].

Steve:                                   Is that because the bodies are trying to process it. It’s actually driving action within the body, whereas the carbohydrates very easily stored as glycogen or converted into blood glucose.

Jeff:                                       If you’ve got the elevated hyperinsulinemia man, if you’ve got low, high levels of insulin in your bloodstream, then your insurance to go very simple job, take sugar out of the blood and it does not care where it goes.

Steve:                                   Right?

Jeff:                                       Our muscles and our useful cells are the ones that become insulin resistant and a lot of different reasons for that near their debate. It whether it’s inflammatory, receptive damage, are we looking at Mitochondria is already full of shit. It can’t burn. Lucky use.

Steve:                                   Lucky use, [crosstalk 00:30:29].

Jeff:                                       Sure. Yeah.

Matt:                                     You got to remember the average overweight person typically doesn’t exercise enough as well.

Steve:                                   Yeah, they’ve got to do full. [crosstalk 00:30:37]. You got to also realize too that a lot of, when we talk about the intermittent fasting and intensity of the exercise to fix these hormonal imbalances and things like that, it’s not as complicated as looking at receptors with chemicals and hormones.

It sometimes it’s a very simple process that your cells are full of sugar. Like you imagine a big plump gripe loaded up full of sugar. It’s hard to get any more sugar into that clinic grape. It’s full.

But if you deplete that grope and turned it into our soul by depleting it out, it’s much easier to fill the bloody thing back up. You can rehydrate, you can reload it. So any point. And that’s why it’s very simple with proteins, a lot of those things I talk about it.

Jeff:                                       Sure.

Steve:                                   If you’re full, it’s harder to put it in.

Jeff:                                       But also the more, so in other words, if you’re talking about it like grapes, it’s like having, if you’re skinny fat, so you’ve got all this fat Ryan and you’ve got relatively small muscle mass going to the gym. Not only is going to help to shuttle and opening up those doorways to shuttle glycogen and it’s going to burn more energy as well too, but it’s only going to give you more muscle cells.

Which can can store more glycogen, which is also good because muscle is active, is also going to burn more calories. So if number one, if you want to lose weight, I think the number one thing that you should be doing outside of obviously, controlling the amount of calories that you should be consuming his workout with weights.

Steve:                                   Okay. So if I’m doing that, so if I’m the guy that I’ve gone in, I’ve taken my objective measurements, you’ve given me a calorie, I’m skinny, fat, I go in and train, my weight is likely to either do nothing, go up.

Jeff:                                       Absolutely.

Steve:                                   And then what do I do on, do I freak out and then go, oh man, my wife’s gone up. I need to eat less and trying harder. So the only reason why I’m talking about that is that possibly than most common scenario you hear in a clinic, literally why expected on I am pissed because I had been doing everything you said and my wife has now gone up and you’ve got to explain to people that the purpose of it is your muscle mass has increased.

So if you have a look at your leg, for example, and we imagine this much muscle, this much fat, you’ve increased the muscle. Yeah. That is going to increase the metabolic rate in that area. The fat will burn by that muscle. But you had to build the muscle first.

He explained to people that you’re building something so you’re capable of burning the other stuff, but there will be a phase where you’ll feel as our, you’re getting larger now if we take objective measurements for example, waist circumference and the navel. Yeah, the widest part of your hips, thigh and you don’t put a lot of muscle ranch good where you might see that go down.

So once you’re more likely to see is in a skinny fat person that’s building up muscle, you’ll still see the visceral fat compartments reducing and that the white guy in or the thickness should occur on the muscles. If it doesn’t, what do we do in a doesn’t. So if this person’s arms and legs are getting skinnier and skinnier while their abdomens getting bigger and bigger while they’re on a calorie restriction and an exercise thing, I mean what do we do?

And that’s what I’m trying to say. If you have subjective measurements, if you’re measuring someone’s hormonal profile, you measuring their gut microbiome as well. If you’re measuring those sorts of things and it makes it easier to make that decision.

And going and actually know this person, a manifesting a major stress reaction here. Oh, this person’s a manifesting a major hormonal problem. Maybe they are actually in a too much of a calorie deficit. In that instance, I might actually need to increase their calories. They’re all things that we can teach it through a podcast.

It’s almost impossible to work out by yourself. It’s just why you need to work with a coach and you need to be taken accurate measurements. You need to be discussing more than just white. Send me a photo of your progress and give me a, and we’ll do some skin folds at your local gym and send me those numbers.

That’s never going to work. You need the subjective data to know holistically what’s happening in that person because we all acknowledge, I don’t care what field you’re in. We all acknowledge the adaptation to stress and we all acknowledge that reverse t three comes up and we go, that core dissolves who got growth hormones at all these different that it’s well established.

The differences. What do we do next? Naturopath would believe in adding functional foods. Looking for micro nutrient deficiencies, looking for potential stressors from allergens and lifestyle and trying to remove all those sorts of things to see if we can remove some of the handbrakes.

Someone that’s focused more on diet campaigns might be more inclined to switch the Diet first or adjust the numbers in and out. There’s no right or wrong answer. It’s just a matter of measuring. And what will you say manage what you measure. You can only manage.

Matt:                                     Yeah, exactly right. And it’s very interesting because we have a nice little chart here, which again through the magic of television can shave it. Basically it’s a breakdown of what you’re burning throughout your day.

Most of it, about two thirds are around these numbers off is your basal metabolic rate and most people focus on the 10 to 30% of physical activity you do during the day. Yep. And there’s about 10% of food. Now this article went on to say it was written by a diocese said, oh, it’s only 10% food. Ignore it. But that’s an incredibly naive thing to say.

Jeff:                                       Or You just showed me another paper, Steve, before where the people with an insulin issue had a 10% difference in how many calories they burned with a specific diet strategies viper out in front of me here. See if you just say you got the wrong died on the wrong person, there’s a 10% difference there.

They’re not using any of those thermogenic foods. There’s another 10% potential calorie burn. They could be missing out. You’re looking at just those couple of simple decisions can immediately, I’ll talk the calories in, calories out and mathematics.

Matt:                                     It’s incredible.

Jeff:                                       Now, what if I was to have a understanding of my microbiome and what if I was to realize that my role for being on earth is a vector for transport, for bugs and that it’s more about them than there is about me and that I will be deciding my metabolism and they will be deciding what fuel I get and what fuel they get.

And what if I, after I finished with my breastfeeding for mom and I went through that thrifty phase of bulking up, that I continue to breastfeed from cows. And then if I continued to use the yogurts and all and other stuff and I continued to build up all my firmicutes as if I was a growing baby. I would have an increased calorie yield from carbohydrates of up to 20%.

Matt:                                     Absolutely.

Jeff:                                       So if I look at my calorie yield increasing because of my particular microbiome is different to yours. And then if I look at the fact that I’m not adding in my spices and things like that, might increase my calorie burn. I mean the maths is the maths true. We need to just, it’s 100% true that you will lose something in a calorie deficit.

My brain problem that I had with it is I, I’m not that good at maths. I don’t know all of the variables associated with calories in and out and nobody does at the starting point, which is why we just got to start you some way and then we, turn and moving horse. That’s what I’m saying.

Steve:                                   Well, someone said the other day, in terms of these firmicutes, this is bacteria duties and we talk about having the right ratio within. You’ve got to, we talk about some of the other populations of bacteria as part too. Damn. Well what are these bloody thin, the acutes wish we could eradicate them all. No, you actually need them spatially. Especially as well too.

You’ve got to think in areas where potentially food is hard to come by. Or are you going through six years of drought firmicutes actually as you said, you actually acquire more nutrients from your food, more calorific value if you like. So today actually play a part [crosstalk 00:38:01].

Jeff:                                       [inaudible 00:38:01] starving.

Matt:                                     Now we’ve got new data suggesting that they’re the reason why we get rebound white guy, because we talked about thyroid hormones and the modification talked about cortisol. Well, there’s also, if your calories, it can stay chronically reduced to maintain your muscle mass and your functions within your body.

The microbiome can actually alter to actually increase your calorie yield to increase the amount of fuel availability you’re going to have because you’ve been depriving yourself.

Jeff:                                       And that’s what fitness coaches have said for years, and you’re sitting there and you effectively nil by mouth and you’ll start thinking yourself. The body slows down the metabolism gears up for it being in starvation. It doesn’t know that there’s a fridge next door.

Therefore the whole chemistry of the body or the, the whole physio logical action of the body starts gearing up to hold onto that, hey, we can sacrifice some additional muscle. It’s all these things which create the, [crosstalk 00:38:55] and they taught the through crap, the thrifty gene. It’s actually, did you know that the smallest babies become the most obese adult real is in a really early life event.

They activate this thrifty gene for quick white guy to catch up. Otherwise a dine if they, if it just can, can just keep going and not about the same thing happens to us when we cut calories down and we go into a white loss buys, our body will up-regulate our thrifty white in processes immediately after that to put the weight back on.

Interestingly, the microbiome, because of our changing seasons in nature, if you’d significantly starve off a group of your bugs, within your gut, they can hold on for nine months and white.

So if you’re doing a three month course or if you’re doing cheat meals every couple of weeks within a three month course, we could be keeping those microbiome alive. And they believe that the microbiome can have a massive effect on weight re-gained that if you’re not using functional foods.

So if you are then using empty calories, in regards to just shitty food and you know that doing the mass. But if you are using Modbar, that compounds if you’re using whole foods, if you’re using really bloody healthy foods while you’re starving, the bugs, you can actually be changing. Their ratios are modifying their ratio.

Steve:                                   And one such buggies is Nathaniel back to which is a classic one that grows when you staff and it’s the one that grabs more calories out of your food. And if you ever been to a body building comp, you’ll notice it’s a bit of a foul odor in the air because it’s a marathon and producing bacteria [crosstalk 00:40:20] get smelly. That’s why it’s smelly. It’s because of that bacteria. And you find a very high in, I’m anorexic people because they are quote starving to the food’s not getting down there.

Jeff:                                       Well one of the consistent things that I found in way back when when I didn’t know a lot and people would come in, I’d give them, it’s just a eight was that people started eating more than what they were used to eating. I’ve got some friends at the moment working with fitness coaches and we’ve got, Chris and we’ve got, Rachel or Rachel why their sponsored athletes. But there’s some other really good ones out there as well to hearing a consistent theme with people that are working with these people.

And this is why it’s great to work with the coach as bishop if it goes the amount of food, they’re all coming back going, oh my gosh, the amount of food that they’ve got me eating is crazy.

Which is kind of cool because on the average person, I mean, people who are in the fitness industry recognize and understand that, but the average, the lay person doesn’t get it. They go and they go, I can’t believe I’m having to eat this amount of third year.

And then in the beginning they’re stuffing it literally, they’re going, it is a chore to eat as much food as they’re asking me the age challenges.

Because as I, as a person that struggled with obesity a lot, yet you sit in the thing and the fat guy’s eating again. Oh yeah. And then not only that though, but what happens is you’re sitting there and you’re eating or not eating enough calories at the moment actually because a friend of mine is actually working with a fitness goes pretty good.

She knows what she’s doing, she’s upping the calories and then go not we’ve got to up the calories again and then she’ll cycle it. Then in, this is the thing, she’s measuring everything and then the dog and then it’s going right. Yeah, exactly.

And you know all that sort of stuff and going right and they’re adjusting things and all of a sudden the white standard full off really quickly. But what it comes down to is that when you first eating, like you’re eating up the food and it’s like, oh, I’m stuffed. I’m stuff. What happens after a period of time? As you trust the coach and you stay on this, guess what starts happening. Metabolism. You start getting hungry between meals.

So even though you’re eating x amount and the differences as well too, let’s say if you work out what your base metabolic should be consuming based on your size and all the rest of it and you know on might be burning two and a half thousand calories or so, I want to lose a little bit of white, I might be on 2,200 calories.

So it’s not what you’re trying to go, oh, okay, let’s do it all on a weekend. Shut me down to 1200 calories. So the smart people, no more changes over a long period of time is what creates and the results that are sustainable and that give you a fairly [crosstalk 00:42:40].

Steve:                                   Really common in obesity people suffering from basically it is really common from to be eating 1200 1500 covers in the day. I haven’t got the issues associated with it. And the funny thing is is when I first started with, for example, when we did it, pay is up to 140 kilos pretty close to that really fat bastard there. And I started working with Mick Galley. Mick’s cool because Mick’s very practical. He does a lot of his stuff by looking and observing. He doesn’t do all these testing and measuring. It’s just by feel and that sort of stuff. Very skilled.

So he would go through and he told me to eat this stuff and I was basically saying there is no way I can eat all that. And I know we had this little moment where that his body fat was extremely low. Body fat was extremely high.

Jeff:                                       Yeah.

Steve:                                   He ate a lot of food. And there was the assumption that for me to be as big as I was, I must’ve been eating so much food. Yeah. And then when you actually explain to them that actually I’m probably eating half the amount of calories you’ve actually prescribed me here. And they’re like, okay, you just follow my instructions. Exactly.

And then they start questioning, are you putting a saucier there? I, where are you cheating? Where are these hidden calories coming? How do you measure your things? and you’re sitting there, no, no, no. This is pretty much what I haven’t eaten yet today.

And I’m doing this and they’re like, you haven’t what, eight, how? They don’t even comprehend how can you get past 9:00 AM and not be chewing your own arm off? You know something I’m always at the front of the and make, just went said, okay, will prove me wrong. You’re the scientist. Yep. So do it as a scientific experiment. You said you follow my instructions and prove me wrong.

Jeff:                                       You know what? We should put up a photo of Matt when I first met him as well. So I’ve got a photo and seriously Matt was 130.

Matt:                                     130 kilos.

Jeff:                                       140 kilos [crosstalk 00:44:20].

Matt:                                     I think the biggest I’ve got was 145 and I think that was because that’s where the scale went and hit the start going around the other side. I mean, I never forget that. I think that’d be perfectly honest. The heaviest story ever was, was 25 kilos

Steve:                                   The heaviest you where it was 25 kilos.

Matt:                                     The scales went up to 120 and then it went around again. I started laughing. The style shows counting where I was. So I’m not sure how accurate that was. That’s why I said it to 145 I stopped caring. I mean you’re sitting on about 112 one yeah that 112 or seven.

Steve:                                   That’s great you really improved recently.

Jeff:                                       But the loader that was just basically Mick proving to me that more calories was why under that the angst that I had and the guilt and the, that the intensity that I would punish myself with when I was on a diet phase was not helping me.

It was actually speeding up my adaptation to the calories by having other causes of cortisol and other causes of hormone or dysfunctions and things like that. So the funny thing is, is a very, very different now when I’m at the gym, it is Zen. I am like Tai Chi. I do almost no way to, and I’ll take, I’ll take five minutes to do three sets of seven reps, but certainly like just [crosstalk 00:45:28].

Steve:                                   Cause you lowly, you’re training [crosstalk 00:45:31]. Weight yeah.

Jeff:                                       But for me it’s still keeping the stress levels down, way before it was like I ate too much cake. I’m fat. I’ve had a gym membership that I haven’t been getting. My money’s worth out of an all in one day. I’m going [crosstalk 00:45:44] to fund all of that and all that extra intensity and then I’m going to be busted up. But the night before because I wanted to start a diet today, I cleaned up. What I’m looking forward to Steve.

Steve:                                   You cleaned it out by this [inaudible 00:45:56] yeah.

Jeff:                                       Is when he met finally ready to enter his first Bikini comp because I can, and I’m going to be oiling by Matt. It’d be good to see you in your first bikini comp. [crosstalk 00:46:06]. So awesome.

Matt:                                     Side boob.

Steve:                                   Oh yeah, of course. It’s funny cause you talk about muscle and all that sort of thing in insulin resistance. If you are insulin resistance, which is what a lot of these people are, is that if you go to sleep at night, most people wake up with higher glucose in the morning and this is a pre diabetes sign or even if you’ve got type two diabetes, like about a million Australians have now, is that it’s because at night the insulin resistance means you can’t get nutrients into your muscles and into your liver.

So what the liver thinks is no glucose coming in. So it makes glucose for the body cause it’s starving in a sea of plenty and it just makes this glucose from your muscle mass. So overnight or muscle mass. And that’s the, that’s what the process of diabetes is.

So if you’re overweight and your window, that insulin resistance, pay costs, diabetes type area, that’s what happens to you overnight. And that’s why you wake up in the morning fasting glucose 20 and you go, I didn’t need overnight. Yeah, sure.

Jeff:                                       So in in that situation, I mean not obviously we have got a lot of people and we recommend you doing fast and cardio first thing in the morning as well too as well. But, but for somebody who’s in that sort of situation, would it be, when would be the best time for them to do some exercise?

Steve:                                   Yeah. [crosstalk 00:47:14] you want to burn it off.

Matt:                                     Off the bloodstream and get it out? And we’re going to do a podcast on that specifically. We’re going to talk about.

Steve:                                   Fasted cardio.

Jeff:                                       Fasted exercise.

Steve:                                   Yeah.

Jeff:                                       Yeah. We’re going to talk at all different types of exercises, but the reasoning behind that and the people that are do it. So in my clinical experience and people with fatty liver, people with a high elevated blood sugar, people with mitochondrial energy defects, in all of those instances, they have unburned fuel clogging up the engines and then everything else backlogs into the bloodstream or into the liver.

So they’re the people that are really good to get up, burn off, what’s clogging everything out before you start eating and adding more. So we’ll talk more about that specifically because we’re going to talk about have patch on the thermic abilities. We’re gonna talk about PPA per receptors and talk about insulins and that sort of stuff.

Matt:                                     What’s PPA per gain meant?

Steve:                                   Peroxisome proliferator activators [crosstalk 00:48:01].

Jeff:                                       And that helps us and that helps with fat burning.

Steve:                                   Well they help to regulate what are you burning, are you going to be burning sugar or you’re going to be burning fat?

Jeff:                                       Yeah cause they can help to modify. So we can use those to trick the body into thinking we prefer to burn fat and we’re not burning sugar right now.

And again, what we might do at the end is give a summary of all the things potentially that you could do, which you know in terms of where we recommend that you should start as far as on your weight loss journey. One of the things I was going to say with regards to breakfast breakfast, I know this is huge as well too.

In America, I can’t get over the amount of cinnamon donuts and pop tarts that like just high sugary sugary foods that people eat first thing in the morning. But regardless of that as well to skipping breakfast, which is a lot of Australians seem to do, they just seem to have a cup of coffee on the lounge and then they don’t eat anything until sometimes lunch time.

The funny thing is that the amount of people that I used to speak to that used to come into my supplement shop and I’d be going, oh, I’ll wake up in the morning and you’re getting me to eight, this and this and this, whether it be, oatmeal or whether it was, eggs or whatever it was.

And they’re like, I can’t eat that. It’s a, I’m like, just the start right now, having breakfast every morning and not at all. I’m so full. I feel full. It could need it. They do it for two to three weeks. Guess bought starving, hungry again. A couple of out there like what’s going on?

Steve:                                   Have you noticed your metabolisms.[crosstalk 00:49:23].

Jeff:                                       Waking can up if you have a big binge of carbs at night, sleep [inaudible 00:49:27] like how hungry you wake up in the morning. You can often wake up with that really low blood sugar because of all that excessive insulin secretion. If you are sensitive to it can flatten it all out.

I wanted to mention before when Steve, I was talking about insulin resistance and we talked about using a symptom picture of family history to see if you’re predisposed. Another maker that you can see is in a lot of people aren’t aware of this, but it is your muscles that are insulin resistant, so before your fat swells up, your muscles will shrink.

So the people that are insulin resistance, one of the classic signs of that is those people that can eat anything and not put on weight.

Steve:                                   Scary. Yeah.

Jeff:                                       You’ll see people, they’re not responding that they’re resistant to insulin, like growth factor within the muscle tissue so they can’t build muscle easily and that’s where it leads directly to Sarcopenia.

Steve:                                   Absolutely. Because you know that that scenario I told you before, they wake up with high glucose in the morning, that’s they make it from Alanine or your muscle protein. So they break down muscle tissue overnight to make your sugars. You can say that’s a real problem because you like it in the morning, your muscles trunk I have or not. And fats, increasing your guts, sugar galore through your bloodstream. And, and a lot of doctors say, well you must have insulin first thing in the morning. I wake up and go for a walk or go for a run here at all.

Jeff:                                       Clear it all out.

Steve:                                   Clear it burn it off.

Jeff:                                       Yep.

Steve:                                   You can inject it off because if you inject yourself with insulin first in the morning, then what’s going to happen is of course don’t change a medication for that your doctor think that. But if you inject your insulin in the morning, it puts it into not so much in muscles cause they’re resistant as mattered guys into fat cells.

And the obesity cycle continues because there’s a lot of type two diabetics are obese too. It’s very common. So this is, over a million people in Australia have type two diabetes and a lot of them are pre-diabetic, which have, which have, insulin resistance or Ravens Syndrome, it’s called or syndrome x really big problem.

And so I met, right, you’ve the, the muscles become insulin resistant and they starve. So guess what, when you tell these people to go and do exercise, do they feel like, they feel like shit.

Matt:                                     And how do they recover?

Jeff:                                       They recover really bad.

Steve:                                   Badly.

Jeff:                                       They can not get that regeneration or pace. Are they breaking down muscle to feel stuff and then that was, that’s it.

Matt:                                     Wow the vicious cycle.

Jeff:                                       Yeah, exactly.

Steve:                                   I’ve got a diabetic in my family and when he goes for, does some excise, he’s tired for days and our warm myself out. So you have to explain the biochemistry and then you think on, it’s too complex for most people on the here.

Jeff:                                       Oh. And it’s also really, I’ll tell you what is really bloody important and a big eye opener for me. I spent a lot of time in the sickness industry.

Steve:                                   Yeah.

Jeff:                                       Dealing with people with full on life ruining stuff and things. Then when I started dealing a lot with athletes, if I didn’t have athlete or something written at the top and body composition, you can look at those symptom pictures almost exactly the same.

The difference is an athlete or a weekend warrior or an everyday athlete or someone and they look at those fatigue symptoms as domes. They look like huge big to an athlete about muscle soreness and I said, well, I kind of always saw and if I stopped me in sore I train harder.

Steve:                                   Because they’ve got used to [crosstalk 00:52:26].

Jeff:                                       So you tell these people. How’s your energy levels? Aren’t you? You’re a crash at this time. I need an APP. So if you were to actually, you look at the symptom picture of an athlete or someone that’s part of the wellness industry that thinks they’re good but want to be awesome and you compare it to someone that thinks that horribly diarrhea, very bloody similar.

The differences is the person that’s diagnosed themselves with chronic fatigue syndrome and that sort of stuff or fibro Myalgia is really unfit in many instances and manifesting the same symptoms as an athlete would by doing a marathon. They did that sleeping at night, you see the same things, but then when you try to talk to these people with the fatigue syndromes and you get them into the exercise and into the training and they’re telling me they just can’t do it because they’re inflammatory condition has destroyed them.

The problem is is in an athlete they thrive on that. They go, oh, I’ve really worked with us on a couple of days I’ll go, but if I don’t try and every day I’m going to be sore in two days, you get someone that’s diagnosed themselves with a fatigue pain syndrome. They try and two days later they can’t sit down to poo or walk downstairs or something like that because of the domes and all of a sudden it’s like arts. The chronic fatigue is flattened me.

The [inaudible 00:53:39] has come back. That sort of stuff where an athlete would look at that as something that’s gonna make them stronger, [crosstalk 00:53:45] the sickness people think it’s going to kill them.

So sometimes as well for perspective, it’s important for coaches and that sort of stuff to work with these people and explain fitness and explain the process of getting better and also explain to them it’s a lifestyle. Like even when you get to be a finally tuned athlete, like some of our sponsored athletes and that sort of stuff maybe.

When I do the consults for our athletes, they go, they’ve got the same problems as someone, the sickness, the differences as they just keep pushing towards a goal and understanding that we do have phases of fatigue and we do have phases of that application that make you feel lousy, but you push forwards towards a goal.

That differences is being able to take accurate measurements to know if you’re actually doing more harm than good. And so I think it’s true. I think that’s an important lesson. The main thing I wanted everyone to know out of that today is that you have multiple tools at your disposal.

We have multiple forms of measurement and use holistic measurement just like we’ll do a holistic approach to their protocol and the symptom pitchers are so bloody important. There is not one blood test that you can interpret without discussing symptoms.

There is not one stool analysis, not one body composition analysis tool. There’s not one objective measurement that is useful to us without a lot of subjective data to explain why that number is the way it is.

Matt:                                     And sometimes it can be very hard to be subjective to yourself. This is where again, going back to that if you’re really stuck, get a coach. Guys, I’m just wary of time. Anything else really critical that we want to share?

Steve:                                   Just remember habits. Like for example, I love your, you’re thinking about you can, you can always turn ahead of a moving horse. So [inaudible 00:55:27] of having it. So.

Matt:                                     [inaudible 00:55:28] made him drink.

Steve:                                   He can’t make him drink you leaders. But, what you should do is if you want to get in the habit of doing something, get in the habit of doing excise. Say first thing in the morning, we’re to talk more about fasting and exercise, but get up and just go for a walk. That’s the start of a habit.

Jeff:                                       Well, it’s, and I’ve mentioned this before, Thomas Jefferson absolutely believed that it improved the brainwaves that are improved cognitive function by walking briskly for I think 20 or 30 minutes.

Steve:                                   Yeah health-wise. It’ [inaudible 00:55:51] in.

Jeff:                                       Ever.

Steve:                                   Yeah. So it’s a very, very good to start, start to have and don’t go out and buy junk food or we haven’t mentioned that. We don’t want to insult your intelligence.

Jeff:                                       I think most of the people that are listening to this understand quality nutrition starts with healthy. And again, we always preach fresh local variety. If the g macros get it, we say makeup that you macros. Again, the healthy foods, if you can incorporate varieties of those colors.

Steve:                                   Definitely.

Jeff:                                       So in terms of calorie restriction, we understand that that’s obviously that’s, we’re all works. If you’re in a calorie surplus, you’re not gonna lose body fat. Right?

Steve:                                   Yeah.

Jeff:                                       But, so in terms in of summarizing, I mean, I think we’re saying for the people that are, are either wanting to start, start exercising, obviously, I would definitely go on and get measurements.

Steve:                                   Start measurements.

Jeff:                                       Start measurements.

Steve:                                   Where am I am right now.

Jeff:                                       We would work with a, a coach will recommend working with a coach, especially if you’ve got frustrated, stick with the program as well. This is another big one. Don’t expect results in two, three, four days. I mean, coaches have their own coaches for their contest prep.

It doesn’t mean that their coaches are better than them as such. It just means that they need support. I personally cannot naturopath, myself or any family members, family thinks I’m an idiot. I can’t, I can’t do that Elizabeth Lambert. But he’s my naturopath path. I go to see her. Sorry Steve. I just prefer the chicks.

So Elizabeth Lambert is very objective. She just would look, she’s just does not have an opinion and can look at it without any emotional and not belief systems, you know? So I need, and then I have other natural paths that come to me saying, can you please, I’ve, these are my thinking, can you give me a bit of guidance? Everyone needs someone else that is not biased that can actually just go through and take measurements. And the whole purpose of measurements is they’re supposed to be unbiased. We’re just taking data.

Steve:                                   Yes.

Jeff:                                       It’s easier.

Steve:                                   Well, we’re friends for 20 years. It’s like it’s not good to have, you need someone who’s completely objective in mind. It might be [inaudible 00:57:51] to you.

Jeff:                                       Yeah. We’ve got a family to the point. I can’t treat my family because I say so that’s another great place to start. The next one obviously is consistency and sticking with the program.

Then we can start looking at other issues in terms of thyroid hormone issues, gut issues. There can be other things as well too that may stop you from getting the results that you need. That’s the next step.

And if you’re being honest to your diet and honest to your training, you’re restricting your calories and you’re not getting the results 100% go. And get a coach, go get someone that can give you objective feedback and make sure that you’re not missing something.

There’s not that we’re saying that you’re trying to cheat yourself or that you’re trying to make excuses, but you might be missing something from there. Once all that’s done, then as I said, then you can start looking at health concerns or health issues, those handbrakes to health that we talk a lot about.

And that’s where, supplementation and other things like that can also help. But first and foremost it’s got to be dying and then it’s got to be excise.

Steve:                                   Yes, and if you’re are a coach out there and your people are trying to give you subjective feedback in regards to the way they’re feeling and then listen document at, see if he can see in him any warning signs of a potential adaptation that’s occurring.

Don’t just assume they’re excuses, none. Just assume as persons were looking for excuses not to do things. It’s really important to collect cause I get that feedback a lot. And as a naturopath, any match, anyone that come to me, the too hard basket that was not getting results working with a coach, that was their biggest complaint. I’m trying to tell him it’s killing me. I’m trying to tell them, don’t believe me. They think I’m not working. I don’t think I’m giving excuses.

We can then go through and fix her hormonal profile, alter that symptom picture just by changing functional foods within their macro allocation.

Matt:                                     That’s true.

Steve:                                   So, and often you don’t even need supplementation, but if you do, you can do that. Fit within the macro allocation, ask the body to change. We’re in regards to the why it’s manifesting cortisol, thyroid and that sort of stuff. Thereby not necessarily having to make significant changes to the calorie in, calorie out mass. Because it probably right. You’re probably right the first time when you calculated they just might have the handbrake in. So.

Matt:                                     It doesn’t matter how big you are now, how overweight you are, it matters in a month. Like how’s your progress [crosstalk 01:00:03].

Jeff:                                       Judge you, you motherfucker.

Matt:                                     Yeah, that’s exactly right.

Steve:                                   So, it’s like if even if you’re overweight now, you’re a hundred and whatever, or you’ve got a waste this size, it’s all about, hey, you’re going be in a month’s time now is irrelevant. It’s just the starting point. It’s, “hey, you’re going to be outside.” So that’s the focus. It’s, hey, you’re going to be down a track if you, “oh, but I’m overweight [inaudible 01:00:22]. I don’t know, people you don’t like getting to the gym because they overweight.

Matt:                                     Yeah, absolutely.

Steve:                                   And that’s, oh, it’s shine because all these fit people don’t be like that. That’d be one of those people and don’t want one little preachy thing. Try not to get caught up in there. I’m not going to eat, I’m just going to have my shake instead. [crosstalk 01:00:37].

Jeff:                                       Very [crosstalk 01:00:38] advice now I had. [crosstalk 01:00:40].

Steve:                                   Instead of that.

Jeff:                                       You don’t want us to [inaudible 01:00:42] hate as well too. I hate this, this bull crap that’s going on at the moment in the mainstream media. He’s always crap gun on the summer [inaudible 01:00:49]. It’s crazy. The whole thing is, is that there’s somebody who’s, who’s been sponsored by something to lose wight now, right? And she’s, and I heard this commentator, talk about her saying, “Oh, I love her because she’s curvie” and so well, you know what? Maybe she doesn’t like your curves.

Maybe she’s not happy with how she is. Because what this person was saying is, oh, she’s a role model to everybody about loving yourself. Love Yourself. Absolutely. But you know what the associated, if you health and they use her, oh, but if you’re healthy, yeah, but we’ve already explored that as well too. You know what? If you’re overweight and you’re happy and you don’t want to try, don’t try.

Steve:                                   Don’t try it. Don’t change.

Jeff:                                       And no one’s going to judge you for that. And if they do, shame on them. But you know what, the amount of reverse judging that’s going on over here, I mean, judges judging the amount of fit guys and girls specifically or that a baby build a bit of muscle that it may be got a six pack and it absolutely, by them being fit and healthy, these horrible, ugly people are not talking about their outside. I’m talking their insides.

Steve:                                   [inaudible 01:01:56] pointing at me while saying that.

Jeff:                                       Actually sitting there judging these people going, oh, look at him. When all that is an absolute reflection of how horrible they are in the inside. Stop it.

Matt:                                     Yes.

Jeff:                                       I don’t care if you’re fat or you’re skinny. If you’re judging other people, you’re judging the person that’s gone to the gym for the first one that doesn’t know what they’re doing. You know that is using the lat pull down machine as some kind of weird aerobics solid.

Matt:                                     Imagine it looks, I’m going to get the gym these days as the Guy Doing Tai Chi on the BEC Pictet.

Jeff:                                       But go help them. The person obviously needs help nicely. God, don’t judge them. Go help them. But also if your some horrible soul puss who’s judging someone for being fit, you know the amount of times you hear, oh look at his muscles. Look at these casting. It’s like, keep your bloody opinion to yourself.

Steve:                                   Beck’s working in cardiology today, you don’t get too many fit people walking in there or getting wheeled in there. They usually, the morbidly obese.

Jeff:                                       No one died running a marathon. Steve.

Steve:                                   Yeah, I got told it that I don’t want to get fit because I heard in 90’s and the 80’s something someone died during a marathon. A lot of people die during marathons. They usually hard people get die about it cause they’re morbidly obese or have diabetes or have that underlying issue that then [crosstalk 01:03:05].

Jeff:                                       The lung issue with them.

Steve:                                   Yeah, you might love your overweightness but your body doesn’t love you being overweight.

Jeff:                                       Well, as you said, at the end of the day Steve this is this area of we’re supposed to be moving into this politically correct generally now where everybody loves everybody else and there’s no judgment. I’ve seen nothing but judgment, more judgment than I think I’ve ever seen in my entire life.

Whether it’s religious movements, whether it’s orientation in terms of, there’s ugliness everywhere they really is count were all mammals.

Steve:                                   Yeah. Of course.

Jeff:                                       Can’t we just get along.

Steve:                                   Yeah then my theory is darkness only exist in the absence of light, just go around and be happy, nice, light, friendly, shining people. That’s where I reckon, that’s a good.

Jeff:                                       And the other stuff will just disappear.

Steve:                                   That’s a good thing to close on. It is be happy and be, be happy and be happy to everyone else.

Jeff:                                       And if you’re not happy then hide behind. You can’t do it. Don’t hide behind, I can’t do this. Go get help. Your happiness is your responsibility. No one else’s.

Matt:                                     Exactly.

Steve:                                   [inaudible 01:04:02] just back to the podcast in regards to the symptom picture. All of those things we just talked about. Happiness, anchor, emotional stuff in combination with other symptoms will highlight a particular biochemical trap. We might be stuck in.

Our emotional reactions to things may still be part of a biochemical imbalance, another symptom of our dysfunction. And we just assume that we just ourselves or we’ve got issues or giving excuses well that might be a significant impact onto our results.

So it’s really important to, whenever I often get accused of being insensitive or stuff like that because in regards to this, when people are trying to talk to me, I’m not counseling on a such, I’m gathering combination of symptoms.

So like, you’ve got to understand that all of these symptom pitchers are manifestations of different chemicals within your body. And if you see a particular pattern, we can use these conversations to direct someone down a path of HPA access HPG you HVT and then modify their diet and their lifestyle to change that biochemical trap. That’s why every aspect of health and wellness and fitness is holistic. You can’t specialize in any division, whether Macros, Micros, herb’s foods, they’re all the same bloody thing.

Jeff:                                       Let’s start with the basics and they move up stream and see if you don’t get the results that you deserve, demand them. Find a way to achieve them.

Steve:                                   Force change.

Jeff:                                       So talking about that. Let’s do some, some effect these quickly. All right. This FAQ is from Keisha. Oh, I hope I’m pronouncing that right. I probably don’t, I can’t even pronounce my own name. I am writing to you today and hope is some guidance that the doctors aren’t willing to give me without the use of a handful of pills and sorry, steroid creams.

After listening to your podcast, I’ve become extremely interested in learning how the body works and it has made me a tune into my body’s reactions to certain elements in life such as exercise, training, certain foods and stress have suffered asthma as a young child. And the doctors advised me that I have slowly grown out of it. I’ve never played a sport due to financial struggles growing up, and the fact that I don’t have the best coordination.

Therefore I wasn’t encouraged to lead an active lifestyle. During my adolescent years. I’ve been put on a great stress with ongoing family issues. I was put on the pill at the age of 15. The reason being my mum was fearful of me becoming sexually active and not using contraceptive. I believe that this was their causing factor of my rapid weight gain.

I went from being a size eight to a size 14 and dress size. The doctors didn’t believe me when I questioned them on the weight gain and just informed me that I needed to try another brand of contraceptive pill after continuingly change of the contraceptive pill. I think it was around five different types. I suffered mood swings, which also led to depression.

At the age of 16, 17. I’ve suffered severe psoriasis. The first started on my scalp and eventually took over my entire body. The doctors told me that there was no other option but to shave my hair off and prescribed me steroid creams and use it for the effect of parts of my skin I refuse to shave my long here even though it was falling out in clumps and my scalp was bleeding, from me scratching the psoriasis.

The part line in my here had also become wider from the loss of here. I knew that the steroid creams weren’t working as it would prevent the itch, but the psoriasis would never disappear. Eventually at the age of 18, I took myself off the pill instead of spend more time outdoors and I felt the sun was a contributing factor to help reduce the severity of the condition.

I then, not long after fell pregnant with my first child. I hate to admit my mum was right during my pregnancy, my psoriasis completely disappeared. Both on my scalp and body. After having my first child, I refused to go back on the pill and opted for another option.

I was fearful of the white game that the pill could potentially give me. So restricting my calories and worked at excessively. My wife dropped to 53 kilos from the, and for my height being 170, I just felt like I was too thin.

I was in, offered the marina, as a different option for booth for birth control. During the time my psoriasis, some white gangs slowly made its way back. I later had, the marina removed to conceive my second child and again, during the pregnancy, psoriasis had again completely cleared. I feel that led the marina mice do contribute to the white gain.

The plus side is our, I don’t suffer with the bed mood swings as I did when I was on the pill. I haven’t had regular periods since by marina was inserted and stuff from random, spot bleeding. Sorry if this too much info, not at all.

After all the psoriasis, after the psoriasis became once again very severe, I went to an itch, Beth who advised me that my case look like it is triggered from stress and digestion. The Metro gave me a food guideline, which listed foods to avoid and foods that was super beneficial for my digestion.

I still try and stick to this food list as I have definitely noticed a reduced and the severity. However, once again it is never completely cleared. After listening to your podcasts, do you guys have made it easier to understand how vital hormones play a role in your body. And for me, I feel that it is a contributing factor to not being able to lose weight easily.

On their 27 and weigh 70 kilos at 33%. Body fat, I work out five to six times, majority of this includes high intense weight training or cardio. There’s mills classes I try to walk to and from work at least three times a week. It’s roughly four kilometers one way.

The reason, the reason I incorporate the walking is because I have a full time office job which limits the movement throughout the day. I it relatively clean diet and I would say that, would say is 80, 20 clean. I still have the marina in and feels like this might be a my own handbrake. Oddly after listening to your podcast, I’ve had a light bulb moment and realize every time I have taken myself off the pill or had their marina removed, I haven’t suffered severe, severe psoriasis.

If anything, it completely goes or does very mild. My husband is looking to get a vasectomy, therefore I’ll be able to get the Miranda Marie moved. I’m very excited to get my hormones back to regular. However, the let down is this won’t be until 40 season is completed at the end of the year. I can understand that.

Steve:                                   [inaudible 01:10:16] that.

Jeff:                                       40 season is very important. I just feel that I can’t wait that long. Start getting results as I’m at the point where I’m consistently try with my food, choices and active lost all but a start to lose motivation after months of seeing no results. I want you to help me get my buddy to head. I hit stop white introducing supplementation.

I would love it if you could list them in priority is the most effective for my circumstance. I’ve tried a lot of your products. The four pillars stack, the AMV the gut, right, the t four, three, two, but the financial side of buying them all consistently is too much with the young family. And saying this are highly recommend your products with all my friends and family as I see the positive effects these have had.

My psoriasis is produced. The 10 days of gut ride has helped my digestion and the t four three two pit with the amp for foster cardio boosted my metabolic rate. My goal is to lose body fat and reshaped my lower body as this is where most of my way to stubborn stubbornly carried. I look somewhat lean up the top, with the top ABS, making an appearance from time to time.

I naturally have a big booty and with this comes stick legs. Why Law Egged dominal fat never seems to completely go no matter how lean I get, I feel like I carry a lot of fluid retention. For instance, Brunell was pregnant on white 92 kilos and got down to 70 to 75 within a week after birth. No exercising. It’s not usual for my weight to fluctuate a, it’s not unusual. Sorry for my weight to fluctuate by three kilos in a day.

So my questions are, do you guys, what products are best suited for me to get optimal results if possible, listed in priority. Do you believe that the marina could have an impact on my white game and psoriasis?

Do you think that there is a possibility of having a low thyroid function? If so, what blood tests should I do to identify this? Look forward to hearing from you guys very soon. On a positive note, a level of your podcasts.

I think it’s become a part of my daily routine to put on the earphones and listened to one regardless of, I think the topic is relevant to me. On hot, you guys have made learning, on the body’s reactions to certain foods. So interesting things again. Keisha.

Interesting. [crosstalk 01:12:18]. Can I just add one thing in that I recommend with regards to the [inaudible 01:12:23] you know with the husband playing football is ah, not understand. He doesn’t want to get into the operation because he’s going to be out for at least a week. Probably two I think met if I remember correctly. You can’t do any weights or anything like that.

Steve:                                   Prophylactics work.

Jeff:                                       So I mean you could take the marina and the or be off the pill.

Steve:                                   Condoms.

Jeff:                                       Yeah. Condoms.

Steve:                                   Yeah.

Jeff:                                       Yeah. So I mean if you’re looking to, if he’s.

Steve:                                   That’s her, my wife, I would never let her do any, my were not met her, she’d never done any online stuff and we might do short. It stayed that way. So we might have a vasectomy last year or something, but up until that moment, we’ve been together 15, 17 years. I, we, I can’t remember. It feels like ages.

Jeff:                                       The other thing I was going to say is you can actually start the preparation now anyway because what happens is we have, when we had different liver pathways and different gut functions and that sort of stuff that I’ll be coastal immunity and our liver and our bile and our microbiome have a massive effect on our metabolism of course, but also our immune system and everything.

When, we’re young and we put in a whole mine product, it is a toxin or it’s in a stress and things aren’t, you will live or will change the way it works to process that out. And that’s sometimes how the contraceptive work sort of thing.

So what you’ll find is when you take a pill or something early and then you cycle through five of them and everything that I have a common theme where they alter the way your body metabolizes hormones via the liver and then by the microbiome.

And what you’ll actually find is I have the potential to build up particular chemicals such as the ratios between the two Alpha hydroxies drone versus the 16 Alpha hydroxylase drone as a side effect of the pill creates all of their side effects.

You know the white guy in the changes, the headaches, the clotting, the bruising, the bleeding’s and all that sort of stuff is from that imbalance. But those micro, those metabolites leave the liver and go into the bowel. They feed the microbiome. In fact, they feed a thing called the Easter Bolam and that sort of stuff, which can then recycle those whole minds and send them back in.

And that’s how we get a lot of fat and fluid and I sort of problems from whole mines that just don’t want to leave. That’s how we get signs of a hormonal imbalance. And then estrogen dominance where progesterones and not even registering during the spotting and all that sort of stuff. But we know the estrogen dominance can enact interact with the unite inflammatory response. Steve, do you hope that 19, 23.

Steve:                                   17.

Jeff:                                       7am.

Matt:                                     I’m sitting there recommend Brian going, what is that bloody number?

Steve:                                   So we look at interleukin 17 TL was seven eight. Those sort of things are significantly associated with the degree of inflammation associated with an immune response and having these hormonal imbalance will predispose us to have an exaggerated immune dysfunction, whichever way it goes.

So that you can be polarized to the psoriasis effect and then, or you could be start off polarize to the summer side and then right if that slips to the other side and then you get left with psoriasis, which is a different type of immunity but still amplified by the same the night inflammatory mechanisms, the whole time we’re on the pill, we making more of this chemical that just amplifies everything.

Now the challenge is is if he now got that, has metabolites of estrogen of feeding fungus and yeast, which they do, they love it, they thrive on it, you know it, for example, candy eaters and that sort of stuff will feed on it. You’ve got the process of psoriasis is that our immune systems preprogrammed in our gut to be reactive to something.

It finds that something on our skin and in the process of Texas skin. So what do you can find happening is if you get an overgrowth of funky and used from the estrogen you got, you create the immune profiles to build up more of that. And then Jeff just about fell off his chair and I thought it was funny. So that they can see it on youtube. You got back, what’s is a little while. But I say if there’s enough to make me laugh, I need to look good.

I believe that it’s very important that stays in now the eighth the ball live and that sort of stuff is typically a yeast. And then what happens is the immune system is fired up to kill yeast and fungi in the gut, as skin’s covered in yeast and fungi, you guys, bugger it smashed the skin.

So you get into a big vicious cycle. You take the whole mine or load out and everything can calm down. So the way we treat it is to aid the conversion of the 16 alpha hydroxy to the two Alpha hydroxy support, its conversion to two methoxy and stop the bastards in the gut from recycling it, which is easy done.

Jeff:                                       Venus.

Steve:                                   With Venus. Because we got the BRASSICA species and that that up regulate those pathways with the rosemary but also GutRight. The same compounds are in this, I will double up on the GutRight, but don’t do the 10 day challenge, do a teaspoon daily. We just want you to keep that gut rod coming in forever. Do the Alpha Venus as well just for possibly one to three cycles of Alpha Venus. Once you’re off the pill, you don’t need the Venus

Jeff:                                       And you’re listening these in importance met.

Steve:                                   Yeah. GutRight is number one.

Jeff:                                       GutRight is number one, Venus, number two. And then I would say our Amala Multifoods probably equally important because without the essential fatty acids and without the essential micronutrients, we are going to struggle to force the body to create the change.

Steve:                                   Yeah.

Jeff:                                       So.

Steve:                                   And just a question for you, with these immune irregularities, we’ve got too much too two with asthma, too much t up alarm with psoriasis in the new, the, of course the pregnancy with a high progesterone reduces tee up on, which is why the psoriasis disappeared.

Would you consider for this person with the inflammatory things going on, resilience as well from [crosstalk 01:17:50].

Matt:                                     Yeah it doesn’t make sense?

Steve:                                   It does make sense to many ways.

Jeff:                                       The way I was looking at it though is there’s a wobbly old seesaw.

Steve:                                   Yeah, it is.

Jeff:                                       So there’s a total lack of oral tolerance. So what you’ll find is in this case, the T [helper 01:18:01] one, we’ve got to challenge, it’ll fire up until two gets a challenge it for her. That’s a, there’s no middle ground. There’s no to, when the seesaw is flat, we have no inflammation. We have no stress.

So my whole goal was to try to reduce the burden, that, that the modifications and that resilience Bruin, because then you’d just flattened the seesaw and be too clever.

Matt:                                     So yes or no.

Jeff:                                       Yeah, already, [crosstalk 01:18:22] throw it to them. But if I was to look at the order of priority.

Matt:                                     GutRight?

Jeff:                                       I would definitely say GutRight is the most likely one to for you to be taking. If you’re going to take something every day to keep the bloody thing away. I think GutRight would be the one for you to do that. So especially if you have a look at the case studies that we’ve had come in regarding psoriasis and GutRight too.

Matt:                                     And as far as the marina or the pillars concerned, you know.

Steve:                                   [inaudible 01:18:41] that eventually, [inaudible 01:18:42] something. It’s not meant [crosstalk 01:18:44].

Matt:                                     There are two types of marine.

Jeff:                                       Hopefully your husband doesn’t make it through into the semifinals. Hopefully finish wooden spoon.

Steve:                                   And just split the marina. And in this might be a stop gap measure is there’s two types. One that secretes hormones and one that doesn’t, it’s just toxic for the sperm. So she may want to look at the non hormonal one. In the early stages. It’s mainly copper.

Matt:                                     Yeah you got [inaudible 01:19:03].

Steve:                                   It’s just, I know it’s not a good one. I agree. [crosstalk 01:19:05].

Jeff:                                       You wouldn’t want to start a whole another.

Steve:                                   No.

Jeff:                                       I remember we looked into the marina thing as well too and.

Steve:                                   No it’s not…

Jeff:                                       Not negative. So.

Steve:                                   Yeah there’s a lot of negatives with that.

Jeff:                                       Yup.

Steve:                                   Yup.

Jeff:                                       Okay.

Steve:                                   I think that was good.

Jeff:                                       That’s it?

Steve:                                   That’s good. Yeah.

Jeff:                                       Brilliant.

Steve:                                   Thanks. [crosstalk 01:19:20].

Jeff:                                       I hopefully their house, we’re going to sit there and wasn’t talking to you. We’ll ship that out. And then, she’s, you’re needy.

Steve:                                   Not needy I just want validation.

Jeff:                                       Huh. That’s great.

Matt:                                     Alright, well that’s it for today guys.

Steve:                                   Great. Thanks Jeff.

Matt:                                     We’re going to be back soon with a, Elizabeth is coming back in, which I’m really looking forward to interviewing her. And also we do have a product podcast, the podcast on the bars, because the bars are coming out in June. So we’ll be doing the podcast on that and why when is a bar not a bar.

Steve:                                   Oh God.

Matt:                                     All right fellas, see you next week.

Steve:                                   All right.

Jeff:                                       See you later.

Steve:                                   Bye.

Jeff:                                       All right. See you. Bye.

Automated voice:            Thanks for listening and remember, question everything.

Autamated V2:                  Well, is that what we say?



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