Skip to main content

Episode 204 – Ulcerative Colitis, an Uncomfortable and Unspoken Condition.


In this Episode of the ATP Project, Matt and Steve chat all things Ulcerative Colitis – the terrible inflammation condition that affects the rectum and large colon.  The guys discuss diet, the microbiome, and even fecal matter transplants as current methods to approach the issue. Digging into the underlying causes and exposure to possible triggers from early stages in life.

 

Episode Index:

00:01:04 – Podcast start – what is UC
00:02:35 – inflammatory bowel disease – nutrient deficiency (vicious cycle)
00:04:13 – mucosal immune system
00:07:11 – ulcerative colitis – the symptoms
00:12:14 – Ulcerative Colitis – predisposition and autoimmunity
00:14:10 – Crohn’s disease
00:15:00 – Ulcerative Colitis – immune chemicals and flushing reactions
00:16:09 – Triggers for UC – foods and bland diets
00:21:25 – UC and Spices – Turmeric and black pepper
00:24L44 – glycine supplementation
00:27L58 – UC Triggers
00:29:57 – UC risk factors
00:31:43 – Coffee Enema
00:32:43 – UC and vitamin D Marker
00:34:01 – UC and breastfeeding
00:35:15 – cox 1 and cox 2 inhibitors
00:35:56 – oral contraceptive
00:37:00 – a Diary risk factor
00:39:00 – Gut microbiome
00:39:43 – Natural treatments
00:42:50 – Rat studies and treatments
00:44:20 – Resilience
00:46:10 – JAK inhibitors
00:47:57 – hydroxyproline
00:50:57 – Eating with the seasons and IGG Testing
00:54:53 – Faecal matter transplant
01:03:06 – iTunes review
01:03:46 – FAQ -01

Transcript: 

Steve:                   Welcome to the ATP Project. You’re with your hosts today, Steve and Matt, and we are gonna be talking about ulcerative colitis. That’s a terrible inflammatory condition that affects the rectum and the large colon. So, sit back, enjoy. We’re gonna be talking about diets, microbiome, we’re even gonna be talking about fecal matter transplants, so sit back and enjoy.

Steve:                   As always, this information is not designed to diagnose, treat, prevent or cure any condition, and is for information purposes only. Please discuss any information in this podcast with your healthcare professional before making any changes to your current lifestyle. Stay tuned, the ATP Project is about to start.

Announcer:        Welcome to the ATP Project, delivering the irreverent truth about health, aging, performance and looking good. If you’re sick and tired of being sick and tired, ready to perform at your best, or somewhere in between, then sit back, relax and open your mind as Jeff and Matt battle the status quo and discuss everything health-related that can make you better.

Steve:                   Welcome to the ATP podcast. You’re with your hosts, Matt and Steve. How are you doing, Matt?

Matt:                     Pretty bloody good.

Steve:                   What’s the name of today’s podcast?

Matt:                     You’re A Bloody Asshole.

Steve:                   Thank you.

Matt:                     No, we’re talking about ulcerative colitis today, which is an inflammatory bowel disease, which can often manifest as a bleeding bottom, or rectum [crosstalk 00:01:23].

Steve:                   It does. It does happen in the rectum often, and then it can go up into the descending colon. Then if you want, the third stage is all the colon, which is bad. It’s a nasty disease. It used to be fatal. 75% of cases, when they got a sudden onset, used to die.

Matt:                     Why?

Steve:                   Oh, because they’d bleed to death, because you couldn’t stop it. There was no [crosstalk 00:01:42].

Matt:                     Yeah, right. It’s a massive hole, too. Not your hole … not your bleeding asshole, but the ulceration itself. So if you’re talking about the rectum and sigmoid colon, descending colon, transverse colon, ascending colon, you’re talking that whole area can become a large, ulcerated wound.

Steve:                   It can. And of course, as you know, there’s not much absorbed in the large colon except for water, so that blood you bleed in there is lost, so you bleed to death. That’s the whole major issue of it.

Matt:                     Yeah, right. So it’d be massive amounts of dehydration and everything, too. So you lose the blood, you lose that water. Basically, you’d lose your blood volume, and you wouldn’t have enough. You’d have dry old blood, what’s left of it, trying to circulate around. So that’s pretty much a good way to die, you bleed to death from the inside.

Steve:                   You’d get hypertension, yeah.

Matt:                     Yeah, right.

Steve:                   Kidneys shut down, because not enough pressure to go through your kidneys, because you’re losing volume, and that’s what you commonly die of.

Matt:                     Yeah. Well, the other thing with most inflammatory bowel disorders that result in a lot of diarrhea and a lot of dehydration and that, people actually die from the nutrient deficiency and that creates a big, vicious cycle because the nutrient deficiencies, in particular things like zinc and magnesium … if you don’t have those you can’t regenerate your gut wall and you can’t heal up the leaky gut wall, so you get stuck into a vicious cycle where all the water’s falling out and you can’t hold that water back in, and because of the leaky gut wall you get stuck into a vicious cycle where you’re just constantly stuck in a flushing reaction.

Steve:                   And that’s just terrible. I mean, you’re just losing nutrients and minerals, and all sorts of things that have caused … you don’t absorb the water back. It can cause massive dehydration.

Matt:                     Yeah, and that’s the other challenge. So to treat it … because what we’re talking about is an inflammatory bowel disorder, so basically there’s one nerve … or, not nerve. There’s one membrane that extends from your mouth, and includes your respiratory tract and sinuses, and it goes all the way through to your bum. That’s your mucosal immunity, and the surface area of that is about 400 square meters.

Steve:                   It’s incredible, isn’t it?

Matt:                     80% of your immune system is found living on that membrane, so what you’ll actually find is just on the other side of that membrane is all of our microbiome. 10 times as many bugs in our gut cavity as there are whole cells of our whole body.

Steve:                   It’s incredible.

Matt:                     Our gut membrane is about 200 times the surface area of our skin, so that’s why our immune cells just sit there at that mucosa, because most things that are gonna infect our body are gonna come across there. And then, so just to take a step back with our immune system, what happens … our mucosal immune system sits in mainly these things called dendritic cells, that have got the really long arms. Which, the word dendrite comes from that, hey. So the dendrite, they’ve got really long arms that reach into your gut contents. They sample the microbes, so they’re looking for microbes. So parasites are massive, okay? They’re huge compared to a dendritic cell, and huge compared to a bacteria or a yeast spore or a virus, and that sort of stuff.

Matt:                     So your dendritic cells are reaching into the gut contents, and this happens all through the airways, it happens through our lungs, it happens through our respiratory tract, our esophagus and in our stomach, and then the duodenum and then the small intestine, so across this whole membrane you’ve got immune cells there waiting to see what’s coming across. As they sample these things they’re sampling two things, really. The size of the microbe … they’re basically trying to see if the trigger is smaller than the immune cell or bigger than the immune cell.

Matt:                     And then it’s also trying to calculate the dose, to see how much of it, whether it’s just normal poo, shit happens sort of thing, or if you’ve got an infection or an infestation or a poisoning or an overdose or something, so it knows how to react. When we look at the things that are activating our immune system, on one side we get the little things, so bacteria, viruses, yeast. On the other side we get the larger things, so parasites, food, antigens, pollutants, and then other inhalants like pollens and all that sort of … and dust. All those sort of things that are more of a … they’re too large. I know dust is a lot of broken down … dust is a little bit of everything, isn’t it?

Steve:                   It can be [inaudible 00:05:59] poo if you want.

Matt:                     Dust can be everything from pollens through to dead microbes. A lot of it’s dead skin cells and that sort of stuff, so that’s probably a little bit of everything. So what happens is our immune system’s constantly sampling these things, and then it’s gathering a bit of data of what’s likely to infect and likely to come across your body. We have these little things called naïve immune cells, which are coming straight out of your bone marrow and that sort of stuff, and they come up and go, “Hey, man. What are we doing, boss?” And the boss goes, “Well, I found a bit of this, I found a bit of this parasite, I found a bit of this microbe. The guy’s eating a hell of a lot of this stuff for too long now,” not eating with the season sort of thing, you know? So he’s getting an accumulation of these particular food parts, so then they show that to the immune cells and then tell the immune cells, “Run away and attack, and this is what we’re looking for. Go and induce an attack.”

Steve:                   Right, go and attack. Excellent. Targeted attack.

Matt:                     So that’s the normal process of the mucosal immune system, in a simplified version.

Steve:                   Yeah, so you get [crosstalk 00:07:01].

Matt:                     I thought it was simplified. I just didn’t use the big words.

Steve:                   Yeah, exactly. Well, like you get food poisoning. You get messy vomiting and diarrhea, and that gets rid of it. That’s a classic example of what you’re talking about. But what we’re talking about here is the same sort of thing, except when there’s … I don’t know whether I should call it a mistake or an error in judgment, where the attack becomes over-exposed and we get these things called autoimmune diseases.

Matt:                     Yeah. So ulcerative colitis is … and most inflammatory bowel disorders, are they all autoimmune?

Steve:                   Autoimmune, yeah.

Matt:                     So inflammatory bowel diseases are all autoimmune. IBS is different, right? So when we talk about [crosstalk 00:07:37] bowel syndrome-

Steve:                   Yeah, irritable bowel syndrome.

Matt:                     When we talk about IBD, IBD is inflammatory bowel, so auto disease, and they are autoimmune diseases.

Steve:                   Bowel disease, yeah. Yeah, they are.

Matt:                     And then IBS is where you haven’t got that yet.

Steve:                   You haven’t got any pathology. You’ve got changes in chemicals, serotonins, but you haven’t got-

Matt:                     It hasn’t polarized. You haven’t got stuck to a particular pathway, your body’s all … so with IBS, what happens is when you get exposure to the small stuff, the microbes, you manifest symptoms like food poisoning. But when you get exposure to the large stuff, like parasites or food, you manifest an allergic flushing sort of reaction. So with IBS, your immune system hasn’t picked a side yet, or hasn’t created a memory to attack a specific tissue. It just reacts and overreacts to everything.

Steve:                   Yes, absolutely it does. So if you decided to stick a camera up your rectum-

Matt:                     Why would you do that, Steve?

Steve:                   Well, it’s called a colonoscopy.

Matt:                     Okay, cool. It’s got a name. We’re fine with it, then. Carry on.

Steve:                   I was just trying to keep the big words out of it, you know? So let’s say you decided to-

Matt:                     And a kind of a medical-sounding name, too.

Steve:                   Yeah, yeah.

Matt:                     If you said it’s called the scenic route, I’d be going, “Mate, I don’t know.”

Steve:                   Well, there’s endoscopy and there’s colon … but if you decided to with an IBS, or irritable bowel syndrome, you wouldn’t see anything. It’d look normal, so it’s like, “So, go away.” But if you stuck a camera up with an ulcerative colitis, you would see ulcers on your colon.

Matt:                     Yeah, right. Makes sense.

Steve:                   And so it’s finally, we’ve got a named disease that actually makes sense.

Matt:                     Not described … not named after a person. Yeah.

Steve:                   Well, I told you about the history of this, with Wilks who discovered ulcerative colitis when he finally did an autopsy on a patient, opened up their colon and saw these ulcers in the colon, and called it ulcerative colitis. He was working with Hodgkin who, his disease, called it Hodgkin’s disease, and Addison, who named obviously Addison’s disease, and then a guy called Bright that worked in the guys’ hospital who made up Bright’s disease, which is a kidney disease.

Matt:                     And then the Wilks guy, “Man, you guys are a pack of wankers. I’m gonna call it ulcerative colitis so someone knows what the bloody hell we’re looking at.”

Steve:                   So the poor student who’s studying this 150 years’ time goes, “What the hell is Bright’s disease? Is that something to do with not being smart?” It doesn’t mean anything. Now we know Hodgkin’s, there’s non-Hodgkin’s, and there’s bloody this-Hodgkin’s and that. But they’ll name it after themselves.

Matt:                     Well, it’s weird, that. Did Hodgkin’s name the non-Hodgkin’s? Did he say, “I don’t wanna be associated with those lumps. Like, ugh. Only the low socioeconomic group get those. I wanna be the Hodgkin’s lymphoma only.” You know, it’s not-

Steve:                   Yeah, yeah. No, no, because he discovered Hodgkin’s, and then they-

Matt:                     What a disease snob. What a tumor snob.

Steve:                   Oh, no. No, because non-Hodgkin’s was discovered later when they discovered that, “This is a lymphoma, but it’s not a Hodgkin’s one.” So they called it non-Hodgkin’s.

Matt:                     Yeah, and he’s going, “Bastard. You’re not naming it after that Wilks asshole.”

Steve:                   But imagine … because ulcerative colitis could’ve been called Wilks disease.

Matt:                     Yeah, I know.

Steve:                   And it’s like, it’s brilliant, but this one is actually a correct name of a disease.

Matt:                     Of an ulcerated colon.

Steve:                   And if you see a photo … and I’m gonna use the magic of television, [crosstalk 00:10:33].

Matt:                     And itis means inflammation.

Steve:                   Itis means inflammation.

Matt:                     Yeah, so.

Steve:                   Ulcerative colitis … so I’m gonna use a magical thing that I’m testing for NASA here. He’s gonna now show a picture, if you’re watching this on YouTube, of an ulcerative colitis now. Watch it. Look at that picture there, isn’t that amazing?

Matt:                     Ugh.

Steve:                   Hopefully that’s worked out, or I’m gonna sound like an idiot. But one of the two, so-

Matt:                     Yeah, yeah. Well, either way, Steve. You just put up a picture of a bleeding asshole, didn’t you?

Steve:                   Well, yeah.

Matt:                     Like, an ulcerated colon.

Steve:                   Yeah, yeah.

Matt:                     Yeah. Nice. Thanks, mate.

Steve:                   Oh, there’s worse pictures I found in the rectum. We’re not gonna [crosstalk 00:11:06].

Matt:                     Oh, I bet. I bet, Steve.

Steve:                   We’re not going there.

Matt:                     But I’m still curious why you keep filming it. Why do you do that?

Steve:                   Yeah. Well, [crosstalk 00:11:12]. It’s terrible, I just can’t help myself. Just, it fascinates me [crosstalk 00:11:16].

Matt:                     Always. And as I always imagined with those other little … you can get a capture with a camera. I always imagine just a bit of parsley or a corn or something getting stuck to the camera at the start, and the whole way through, corn. You’re diagnosed with Corn’s disease.

Steve:                   He’s got-

Matt:                     That was Dr. Corn.

Steve:                   Dr. Corn, yeah.

Matt:                     Actually, obviously.

Steve:                   Oh, I love these names. They’re so arrogant, these doctors.

Matt:                     What about these new papers? The new trend in the papers now with the editor for the journalist putting a photo of himself up in the front page? “I’m gonna dedicate the front page of this to a picture of my head, because I’m the editor.”

Steve:                   It was, wasn’t it? It was a gastroenterology, Japanese journal … no, no. It was actually an Italian journal, and this Asian gentleman had this picture of himself smiling in the very … full page.

Matt:                     The full page, it was just that. And it was like, “And who’s this guy?”

Steve:                   And it’s like, he’s the editor. And it’s like-

Matt:                     Yeah.

Steve:                   That’s just … that’s taking [crosstalk 00:12:05].

Matt:                     When you’re the editor it’s like, “Oh, come on. If that’s what you wanna do, just publish my bloody paper.” So, let’s get back to the immune system and that.

Steve:                   Yeah, immune. Yeah, let’s.

Matt:                     So with ulcerative colitis what happens is, we’ve got a predisposition to autoimmunity, okay? Now when I say a predisposition to autoimmunity, there’s certain genetic things, aren’t there?

Steve:                   Yes.

Matt:                     So certain genes, like HLA-B27. There’s lots of them. There’s a lot of tests that people get done as well, to see if they’re predisposed to autoimmunity, and also if you’ve got a family history of autoimmunity. So when I talk about autoimmunity, a lot of people know things like rheumatoid arthritis is autoimmune.

Steve:                   HLA-DR2, yeah.

Matt:                     Yeah. You’ve mentioned Addison’s disease; certain thyroid disease.

Steve:                   Hashimoto’s.

Matt:                     But other things like psoriasis, people don’t realize is also autoimmune.

Steve:                   Yup, it is.

Matt:                     It’s very common, so people don’t think they’ve got an autoimmune disease. But psoriasis sometimes, vitiligo, and those sort of things. So if you’ve got a predisposition for that, or if you … you can go do some genetic testing to see if you’re predisposed to autoimmunity. So what happens is these people get predisposed to their immune system getting a memory against their own tissue. That’s what autoimmunity is, so the immune system.

Steve:                   Yes, exactly.

Matt:                     So what typically happens, we talked about the immune system getting a challenge. The naïve immune cells are all fired up, ready to go. These are dendritic cells, and the antigen-presenting cells then will show bits and pieces and say, “Now, go and attack that.” For some bloody reason, in this condition, they’ve also shown a piece of the membrane, so they’ve also got confused. They’ve shown a bug, or a pathogen, or a food, or whatever it was that triggered a weird immune response. At the same time, though, showing them a little bit of mucosa, a little bit of your own tissue. And then what happens is the immune system goes, “Right. If I see that bug, or that food on that tissue, I’m eating the whole bloody thing.”

Steve:                   Yeah, the whole bloody thing.

Matt:                     And what it does is it just engulfs and attacks it, and … well, it doesn’t engulf it. It does a chemical attack in ulcerative colitis.

Steve:                   Yes, it does.

Matt:                     Which is really interesting. It’s very different to other inflammatory bowel disorders like Crohn’s.

Steve:                   Crohn’s disease, yeah.

Matt:                     Crohn’s is an autoimmune disease where the cellular immunity will attack the tissue. It makes it really raw, but very inflamed and almost described like dry. It’s like a dry heat, an extremely sort of like sunburn across the membrane. It’s a very aggressive inflammation. Now, ulcerative colitis is a little bit different. It uses a different part of the immune system, a part of the immune system that’s associated with allergic inflammation, flushing reactions, the sort of things that your body would do to flush away food or flush away large things like parasites. So large foods that are not digested properly, and large parasites that are way too big for the immune system, other inhalants and pollens and things like that. They’re too big for the immune cells to engulf and remove, and eat a bit of tissue with it. So what they do is they create this chemical shit-storm, literally. They create this release of all these chemicals called chemokines, and we’ll talk more about the interleukin-9s and that in a sec.

Steve:                   Yes, interleukin 22.

Matt:                     We get a lot of these immune chemicals, and what they do is they attract a lot of other immune cells into that area, and all of those things are releasing a lot of inflammation and a lot of chemicals that are released to trigger a flushing reaction. So they fill up the area with mucus, they fill up the area with slime. They kind of fill up the mucus membrane that way with all these inflammatory mediators. They make the membrane really leaky and they make lots and lots of slime, and the chemical attack creates the ulceration through the membrane. So it’s very different in the sense that there’s a lot of bleeding with ulcerative colitis because of the ulceration of the membrane, and with that blood there’s a lot of mucus, and a lot of slime, and a lot of that sort of stuff.

Matt:                     So that’s the big thing with ulcerative colitis, and then what happens is the immune system is really programmed to keep going. The problem is, the triggers for ulcerative colitis, they can keep coming. So because the large things, they’re typically inhalants. They’re the large undigested foods, and the foods could probably change a lot, what your triggering foods are. But also parasites, we can’t really stop parasites from coming back. So every time we get these little signals, or every time these little parasite spores hatch or whatever and they get to a certain size again, it just keeps this disease process going.

Steve:                   Yeah, it just feeds forward to it. Now, obviously we’re talking about the large colon here. Just as a hypothetical, would you think food has something to do with a healthier colon?

Matt:                     Of course it bloody does. It has to go there.

Steve:                   Aha. Well, it’s funny you should say that.

Matt:                     Aww, shit. Here we go.

Steve:                   Because I’ve downloaded this from a Queensland government website, which is by dieticians, and it says, “Does diet cause inflammatory bowel disease?” And I’ll quote here. “There is no evidence that diet causes either the development of inflammatory bowel disease or relapses.”

Matt:                     What?

Steve:                   “There is no evidence that diet causes either the development of inflammatory bowel disease or relapses.”

Matt:                     Notice how they specifically left out the word flare-up. See that?

Steve:                   Yeah. They didn’t.

Matt:                     They left out that flare-up, or they left out acute aggravation. Flip the page.

Steve:                   Oh, I’ll flip the page, yeah. Sure, it goes on.

Matt:                     Because, don’t they say something else in that same document?

Steve:                   Well, it’s funny, they do actually. They said, “During a flare-up, you may find some foods make symptoms worse.” Wow.

Matt:                     So they’re saying the foods can’t cause it, and they can’t fix it, but they’re associated directly with a flare-up.

Steve:                   Making it worse. So there’s some foods that make your bowel worse, all right? You may choose to avoid these foods for a short time, but it’s important to reintroduce those foods back into your diet when you are symptom-free. So the food caused the irritation. You take out the food, you get better, and then you’ve gotta reintroduce that food again. Is that a good idea?

Matt:                     Well, this is where it get a bit intriguing. It depends what the food is, though, too. But, now, to be fair, so what happens with ulcerative colitis, we get this massive amount of mucus coating the mucosa. The undigested food that gets down to that large intestine that the bacteria are finishing off the digestion of … when you’ve got a lot more mucus, you’re probably gonna have a lot more of those foods, you’re probably going to have a lot more reactions. So while things are bad, there are certain foods that’ll make it worse.

Steve:                   No.

Matt:                     Pardon, Steve?

Steve:                   Yeah, no, no. [crosstalk 00:18:31]

Matt:                     Don’t you see it? He’s turned into that kid off The Simpsons.

Steve:                   Yeah, no. You want fries with that?

Matt:                     Yeah, that’s right. That’s the guy. Yeah, yeah.

Steve:                   I like that guy. I like that kid.

Matt:                     And then, yeah, so what happens, you get all this mucus there and you really struggle with your digestion with so much mucus, so you get more undigested food. So those foods that are hard for you to digest, or hard for you to break down, you’re gonna get more of those large starchy compounds and that sort of stuff down there during a bad time. The thing that I’m trying to wrap my brain around … I’m still trying to defend this bullshit statement, actually. I don’t know why, because it’s so wrong.

Steve:                   Well-

Matt:                     But I’m trying to get my head around where they’re coming from, and I’m thinking that of course when things are bad there are some foods that are gonna make it worse. Those foods are typically gonna be the things that are hard for you to digest. The problem is, is when things are good, those foods are probably still harder for you to digest.

Steve:                   Digest, [crosstalk 00:19:21].

Matt:                     So they’re still predisposed to make you worse again. So when things come good, if you put those foods in and it still overloads the large intestine with undigested starchy molecules or whatever, [crosstalk 00:19:34]. The craziest thing is?

Steve:                   Yeah.

Matt:                     The craziest thing is, in my experience, when people get ulcerative colitis and they go to the doctor and say … and the doctor will tell them to go onto a bland diet.

Steve:                   Yeah, I’ve heard that.

Matt:                     Have you heard that?

Steve:                   I’ve heard that, a bland diet.

Matt:                     Not Jeffrey Bland, no. A different bland.

Steve:                   No. “As you know,” yes. [crosstalk 00:19:51]

Matt:                     Yeah, “As you know, there are five methylene tetrahydrofolate reductase polymorphism-”

Steve:                   Yeah, I know that.

Matt:                     Yeah. So, a bland diet, and for most people they think, “Oh, just that white stuff. I’ll go back to …”

Steve:                   Yeah, bread bits.

Matt:                     So, “I’ll go back to …” Bland diet would be things like rice, dry biccies, so wheat, bread, toast, rice. I’ve said that a few times now, it’s the only bland thing I can think of. Oats.

Steve:                   Yeah, oats.

Matt:                     Now with an ulcerative colitis, all of those things we refer to as complex carbohydrates, that’s gonna actually add more undigested starch, and more fuel for the microbes, and more fuel for any parasites. So those are … the typical bland foods are the ones that probably make it worse. Now, if I have a look at some non-bland foods, for example spices, curry, [crosstalk 00:20:42].

Steve:                   Yeah, turmeric [crosstalk 00:20:43].

Matt:                     Turmeric and ginger. Some of the research for both turmeric and ginger is the best for inflammatory bowel disorders, in particular ulcerative colitis.

Steve:                   Absolutely, it is. Yes.

Matt:                     Very powerful anti-inflammatories. Very powerful at reducing the leakiness of the gut wall. Part of my treatment in the naturopath clinic with ulcerative colitis always involved turmeric. That picture you showed up before, of your date while it’s inflamed, you’ll see the red and the ulceration and all that sort of stuff. After doing a course of turmeric, the funny thing is is that people come back and say, “Oh, I’ve had my scenic route, and the doctor’s come through and told me that it’s excellent. ‘There’s no more ulceration. But the weird … what have you been eating? It’s like bright yellow.”

Matt:                     Anyway, back on track. Spices. One thing that we used to notice with the people that do the turmeric long-term is their followup photos come back all nice and clean without the ulceration, but they stain the mucosa yellow. The reason why I’m mentioning that is, for the people that are wanting to use a turmeric supplement to fix ulcerative colitis, you don’t really wanna be getting one that’s loaded up with black pepper, for two reasons. One, it’s kind of fame is it dodges this whole membrane and gets into your body.

Steve:                   Yeah, okay.

Matt:                     We need it coating a membrane. For turmeric to fix ulcerative colitis, it needs to be in the membrane. Plus, the way black pepper increases turmeric’s absorption to dodge the mucosa is by creating a leaky gut wall and aggravating these tight junction proteins the same as ulcerative colitis, and inhibiting a form of detoxification called glucuronidation that’s associated with phase two pathways to reduce your allergic and inflammatory response to pollutants. So don’t do black pepper with turmeric, because it’s actually gonna stop the turmeric from working on your ulcerative colitis. You’d be better of just getting cheaper, nasty turmeric and just eating lots of it to get a nice coating all through your gut. In fact, the Ayurvedic way of doing it was to boil that turmeric either into ghee or into buffalo milk or something like that, to coat and hold it onto the mucosa longer to get a more powerful antiinflammatory effect.

Steve:                   It’s great. Now, turmeric is good. There’s a randomized double-blind placebo crossover trial showing a couple of grams of turmeric a day improves the remission rate from 20% if you’re on sulfasalazine, which is a classic drug that releases aspirin in your colon … I’ll keep it simple. This drug gets through and goes … aspirin in your colon.

Matt:                     Is that right?

Steve:                   [crosstalk 00:23:07] that’s how it works, yeah.

Matt:                     I didn’t even know that.

Steve:                   Oh, it releases [alpha-salicylic 00:23:11] acid, if you want the techo thing, and sulfasalazine’s a pretty common drug. It’s been around. I was on it when I had my [crosstalk 00:23:17] years ago. I was 25 then, so it’s 25 years old at least. Quite a long one. So that’s how it works, it just causes massive antiinflammatory response in the colon. Terrible side effects. Bad [crosstalk 00:23:29].

Matt:                     Well, it’s a side effect of aspirin, this salicylic acid, isn’t it? Gut ulceration?

Steve:                   Yup, gut ulceration. It also destroys your folate levels and it causes infertility in men, all sorts of things. That was a bonus [crosstalk 00:23:41].

Matt:                     Isn’t it bleeding, like bleeding mucosa?

Steve:                   Yeah. Well, it stops the … because most of the prostate gland inhibition usually gets your small intestines. In the large one, it actually has a beneficial effect on this. It’s like having an enema of aspirin, basically, except you swallow a tablet and it just releases it in there. It’s a pretty common drug, and obviously it’s got side effects. But-

Matt:                     Yeah, yeah. And just for others, before we move on … sorry. For other people out there, you can go onto our web page and you can type in salicylate. It’ll list off a lot of foods that are also high in salicylate. Some people that are curious if they’re gonna react badly to aspirins, and then in this case sulfasalazine, have a look at the other list of aspirin-like compounds that you currently might be eating and using, and seeing if you’re likely to be reacting. And salicylate sensitivity is a really common thing, where you get-

Steve:                   Very much so.

Matt:                     Like when you have a citrus, an orange, and you get that burning around the mouth. So, have a look at the symptoms of a salicylate sensitivity. But what about … I don’t know if you know this, I’m just springing it on you now, but the glycine. Supplementing with extra glycine, glycination is the process that our body uses to eliminate the extra salicylates and deactivate them in the bowel.

Steve:                   Yes, it does. Yeah.

Matt:                     Would glycine reduce some of the side effects, do you think, of aspirin and sulfasalazine? Just aid that.

Steve:                   Oh, absolutely, [crosstalk 00:24:59]. Yeah.

Matt:                     Because what happens with salicylates? It’s not an allergy, it’s an intolerance. Say we’ve got a threshold for symptoms that sits right about here … where my hand is now, for the people listening on the podcast. If our levels build up … normally we hover nowhere near that threshold of symptoms, but if our levels build up because we can’t clear it away, then all of a sudden every time we’re exposed to salicylate we have a reaction. That’s an intolerance, so you avoid it for a period of time or age your body’s clearance of it, and your levels of salicylate in your body go right away from that threshold of symptoms, and all of a sudden you’re not allergic or manifesting allergic reactions to these things anymore.

Steve:                   Yeah, absolutely. It’s a great point, that glycine is a good one to add in there. It’s quite cheap, it’s quite easy to get ahold of, and it’s a typical amino acid of course.

Matt:                     But the only … sorry, I keep interrupting you. But the only reason why I mention it again is because herbs are really high in salicylates.

Steve:                   Yeah, they are.

Matt:                     So some people will go through and go, “Yeah, man, I wanna use turmeric. It’s fantastic. Frankincense, myrrh, ganoderma.” We talk about all that, and they’re all relatively high in salicylates. So if someone’s been taking aspirins or sulfasalazines and they’ve also been eating a lot more of these high-salicylate foods where they’re intentionally … like honey, herbal teas, a lot of these other things could be massive amounts of salicylates coming through. Then all of a sudden they have the herbs, or they’ve had the herbs in the past and go, “I react badly to herbs.” Where these have got … some of them are really antiinflammatory pathways and really good, other parts of it might be the salicylic acid compounds that’s naturally part of the herbs that we’ve become intolerant to because we’re not clearing it away.

Steve:                   Exactly.

Matt:                     So I just wanna let people know that when you’re using those powerful drugs, and have a look at that … go check that list out, because it’s in cosmetics, it’s in foods, it’s in hair products, it’s in absolutely everything, and eventually stuff builds up and your body will react. If they put you on a sulfasalazine and you react badly, that drug might be something that could turn your life around. Same with the herbs. So you wanna see, there might be other things that you can take away to reduce your salicylate load. You might be able to reduce your berries and cherries and have a different style of fruit. You might be able to take away from the honey and have Vegemite or something. I don’t know. So we’re just talking about understanding what’s going on. Sorry, I’ll stop interrupting.

Steve:                   No, it’s all right.

Matt:                     Tell me something.

Steve:                   Oh, well, look. The good thing with this is that most people with ulcerative colitis are on that drug, or similar drugs. This was a study done where they gave turmeric with the drugs. So, is it safe to take? It is. You get relapse when you’re on sulfasalazine about 20% of the time. If you take turmeric with it, it drops to 4% relapse.

Matt:                     Yeah? Wow.

Steve:                   So it virtually eliminates 96% of relapses, just two grams of turmeric. I haven’t even started … you’re talking about [crosstalk 00:27:37].

Matt:                     So we’re talking about like one in 25 people might relapse on the turmeric group, and one in five or something on the other group.

Steve:                   Yeah.

Matt:                     Oh, wow. That is really good.

Steve:                   Yeah, it’s really cool. That was a 2006 study published in the clinical gastroenterology, hepatology journal. So it’s a really important journal to [crosstalk 00:27:55]. Now, I think we should start talking about what sort of triggers these sorts of … I’ve got a little list here I can run through if we’ve got time.

Matt:                     But we know it’s not food, because the Queensland government told us that food’s got nothing to do with it, so that-

Steve:                   By the way, I’m quoting from a title of a paper that says, “Westernized diet is the most ubiquitous environmental factor in inflammatory bowel disease.”

Matt:                     What’s ubiquitous mean?

Steve:                   That’s what everyone has. Yeah, everyone. So that’s the name of the title of the paper, so that just blows this whole dietician written statement out of the water already.

Matt:                     It kind of makes sense. I mean, you’ve got a bloody tube … I keep saying bloody, but it is. That was appropriate. It’s a bloody tube.

Steve:                   It’s bloody. You can say that today.

Matt:                     At the bottom end of it, it is. But you’re putting the food in here, it’s coming out there. Just at the end of that process, you’ve got an ulceration across the tissue that touches those foods. It’s gotta have some bloody thing to do with it, like a massive thing.

Steve:                   It does have a massive … it’s the most important thing according to this scientific journal published this year.

Matt:                     This year. Oh, well, that’s why. Wait 10 years and the Queensland government will probably add it to theirs.

Steve:                   That’s embarrassing, I think.

Matt:                     If it fits with the industrial and the economic review.

Steve:                   We’re gonna get hate mail from that, but look, I didn’t write it.

Matt:                     It’s straight, man. Those bullshit statements there, after … so they read these papers, they do all the same stuff we do, and then before they go and tell the people that are suffering from these diseases what to do, they actually go do an economic and industrial review. They go through and have a look at the economic impact of what they’re gonna say, and then they go back and go, “Shit, oh, mate, we might upset the cane farmers in North Queensland,” or, “We might upset someone else that’s built a big business around it. One of those big multinational guys that we’re scared of.”

Steve:                   There is one other point you made before about zinc magnesium and vitamin D and that, how you need to keep your levels on that. These guys do say, most people do not need a vitamin and mineral supplement if they’re people who have the inflammatory bowel disease. It’s crazy, isn’t it?

Matt:                     It is, man.

Steve:                   Anyway, look. Anyway, we’ll get back to the risk factors.

Matt:                     Oh, yeah. Do that.

Steve:                   Smoking’s bad for your colon.

Matt:                     Well, hang on. It used to be the treatment.

Steve:                   That’s for Crohn’s disease. It is a treatment, it’s still protective.

Matt:                     Yeah, right.

Steve:                   It protects, smoking … not saying that, we’re not recommending smoking.

Matt:                     Oh, man. Okay, so I know … oh, man, I keep interrupting, but this is really kinda cool because you’re piecing a lot of stuff together for me.

Steve:                   Go for it.

Matt:                     We talked about the immune system before. One side flushes away allergies with mucus. It creates inflammation and mucus in response to airway irritation, and it does that in the colon. In ulcerative colitis, that is stuck, that’s polarized. They have too much of that, they’ve already got too much mucus. So the irritation of the airways from the smoking increases the amount of mucus, and in ulcerative colitis that will increase the amount of chemotaxis, I think it’s called, where all the immune cells rush into the membrane and create more. So that’s why, they’re already stuck that way. It’ll make it worse. But Crohn’s disease is the exact opposite. So Crohn’s disease is where they’ve got lack of mucus, they’ve got hot, dry, raw inflamed membranes. The irritation in the airways increases mucus production, and then … because we talk about it like a seesaw. For the users on YouTube, you’re watching me fly like a bird. But for the people on podcast, you can imagine how graceful and beautiful that would be. But what happens is, the stimulation of the mucosal inflammation in regards to slime and phlegm reduces the mucosal inflammation in Crohn’s, but will aggravate the slime in ulcerative colitis.

Steve:                   Amazing, isn’t it?

Matt:                     Right, it makes sense.

Steve:                   It makes sense. And this is-

Matt:                     I’m like a flock of birds, then.

Steve:                   Absolutely incredible. I mean-

Matt:                     Thank you, Steve.

Steve:                   There’s a few other things that are protective. Drinking tea or coffee is protective, for both ulcerative colitis and Crohn’s disease.

Matt:                     Really? Handy.

Steve:                   Handy, so good news there.

Matt:                     So a coffee enema?

Steve:                   Yeah, if you want.

Matt:                     If you want?

Steve:                   If you want.

Matt:                     I prefer the taste of it, personally.

Steve:                   Yeah, or you could just drink it. I don’t like the taste of it, so I guess I’m stuck with the enema.

Matt:                     Yeah. Yeah, you go for the enema, mate.

Steve:                   Oh, jeez.

Matt:                     Just put it up with your camera, [crosstalk 00:31:53] doing that.

Steve:                   Well, coffee enemas … where I studied, back in 1847 [inaudible 00:31:57], the coffee enemas were quite common.

Matt:                     I know.

Steve:                   And we gave a few.

Matt:                     People keep asking. I never did it. I turned up to a colonic hydration, irrigation, whatever they called it place once. I fully chickened out. I was just, I couldn’t do it. I chickened out.

Steve:                   I’ve done it in college. I passed the test for [crosstalk 00:32:16].

Matt:                     I don’t know what I’d rather, a really hot chick or an old bloke doctor. Just not [Juan 00:32:21]. He’d be there with the popcorn. “No, I’m not a doctor, I’m just observing.” Anyway, so what were we talking about there?

Steve:                   Yeah, getting all hot and flushed. Well, [crosstalk 00:32:36].

Matt:                     Yeah, why are you getting all hot and flushed, Steve?

Steve:                   It’s coffee and tea. I was just talking about coffee and tea being protective.

Matt:                     Oh, yeah.

Steve:                   Here’s a classic risk factor which I always found funny. There was a study published in this pile of papers that showed that you can measure how bad ulcerative colitis is by the vitamin D status. If it’s really low, the ulcerative colitis is usually bad.

Matt:                     So are they saying that we use vitamin D status as a marker, because you’re pooping out your sunlight with the green tea?

Steve:                   Yeah. Vitamin D’s made from the sun, but the lower vitamin D goes, the more the immune system goes haywire.

Matt:                     Yeah, yeah. Are they saying that vitamin D deficiency is associated with ulcerative colitis, or are they saying we use vitamin D as a marker to see how bad you’ve-

Steve:                   They use it as a marker.

Matt:                     Basically, do they test your vitamin D, see it’s low, and then recommend you take some?

Steve:                   Well, they do in this stage.

Matt:                     Or do they just say, “Dude, your vitamin D’s low. You’re in for some trouble today”?

Steve:                   That’s it, they correlated them both. There’s another paper with causation, but basically correlation means that the lower the vitamin D, the worse the ulcerative colitis is. And so they said that you could use that as a marker to see how bad the ulcerative colitis is. I’m thinking, “Just go sit in the sun.”

Matt:                     Maybe go get some bloody vitamin D.

Steve:                   Yeah. And of course they’ve done that, intervention trials have shown. But it’s a risk factor for both inflammatory bowel disease, Crohn’s and ulcerative colitis. I’ll give you a protective one.

Matt:                     So you’ve got smoking … because I keep interrupting, so we’d better review. So, smoking?

Steve:                   Bad.

Matt:                     Bad. Vitamin D?

Steve:                   Bad … or, good, if you take it. Yeah.

Matt:                     But a good marker, to let you know when you’re gonna have a bad day.

Steve:                   Good marker, yeah. Coffee and tea, good.

Matt:                     Coffee and tea are good for it.

Steve:                   Yeah. Another thing that’s good for it is breastfeeding.

Matt:                     That’s fantastic.

Steve:                   Yeah, so we can recommend breastfeeding to you if you’ve got-

Matt:                     Brilliant.

Steve:                   I’m assuming a kid, but I mean, I was just thinking of a possible-

Matt:                     Okay. No, all right.

Steve:                   As you’re an adult, it could be useful too.

Matt:                     Yeah. No, it’s a fantastic idea.

Steve:                   I didn’t write the paper.

Matt:                     So far I can have coffee and tea. I’ve just gotta cut out the smoking, but I can sleep like a baby.

Steve:                   If you can put the right kind of milk-

Matt:                     Wake up with a boob in my mouth. And probably poop in my pants, in this instance.

Steve:                   Bloody stools. Well, let’s get … a bad thing is an NSAID, which is a nonsteroidal antiinflammatory. All the arthritic drugs are bad for ulcerative colitis and Crohn’s. They’re bad for your gut anyway. They’re really bad. They inhibit the prostate gland and the prostacyclins real bad.

Matt:                     It’s interesting, because ulcerative colitis is really linked in with a lot of autoimmune conditions, such as rheumatoid arthritis and MS and everything, that those are typically prescribed for.

Steve:                   Very much so.

Matt:                     So you may end up with a different autoimmune, and then leading into ulcerative colitis because of the treatment. That would screw the stats.

Steve:                   Yeah. It does, because NSAIDs cause leaky gut, which is part of the pathology of ulcerative colitis.

Matt:                     I keep thinking you’re saying insects. You’re saying NSAIDs, nonsteroidal-

Steve:                   NSAIDs. Nonsteroidal antiinflammatory drugs.

Matt:                     NSAIDs, things that you read.

Steve:                   Yeah. Yeah, that’s it. We’re talking about [inaudible 00:35:13], Oridis, Feldene, [crosstalk 00:35:15].

Matt:                     Yeah, and the other COX-2 inhibitors.

Steve:                   COX-2.

Matt:                     Yeah. COX-1 is a good one, and it create … what are you smiling at me for?

Steve:                   I thought you mispronounced it.

Matt:                     No, no. COX-2. You’re just imagining things. So COX-2s are highly inducible inflammation associated with immune injuries and that. COX-1 is a lubricating slime that protects your mucosa, protects your arteries, protects your kidneys. So that’s why those things have the side effects of drying out your gut wall, drying out your arteries, drying out your kidneys, because they reduce the lubricating COX-1. Yeah.

Steve:                   Yeah, and the COX-2 inhibitors, the specific ones like Celebrex and Mobic, they actually cause other damaging things to your blood vessels and can cause vascular disease, heart disease.

Matt:                     Also, yeah.

Steve:                   So thumbs up for those. Nothing’s good. By the way, oral contraceptive’s bad for both. Really bad.

Matt:                     Is that right?

Steve:                   And it’s simply because oral hormones are a bad idea for your health. I mean, injectable, skin … you could argue there’s a benefit to progesterone, I tell people, so estrogen and [crosstalk 00:36:16].

Matt:                     Is it because of the microbiome in the liver? Or-

Steve:                   And because estrogen is very pro-inflammatory in the gut, and it’s not absorbed. So I guess [crosstalk 00:36:21].

Matt:                     Yeah? Wow. And it has a big link with asthma, too, doesn’t it?

Steve:                   Very much so.

Matt:                     Yeah. Wow, so oral hormones, they’ll go through and directly interact with the mucosa, and I know they have effects on bronchial constrictions. They definitely have an effect on histamine release. Estrogen in particular really highly induces mass cell degranulation, so you get lots of histamine bubbles thrown out from your immune cells. But then the microbiome does whatever the hell it … depends whether you got a estrobolome, [testrobolome 00:36:50], [candidarolome 00:36:50], like candida overgrowth.

Steve:                   Yeah. No, it’s a bad one. It’s really quite bad.

Matt:                     What else? What else? Any foods in particular, or just it could be different for everyone?

Steve:                   Oh, yeah. Dairy’s really bad.

Matt:                     Yeah, right.

Steve:                   There was a paper here showing evaluation of the area IGMM ulcerative colitis patients, and there’s quite huge … particularly casein.

Matt:                     So are you talking cow dairy?

Steve:                   Cow dairy, yeah.

Matt:                     Because human dairy sounds fantastic.

Steve:                   Well, it’s very good for you.

Matt:                     Well, I licked my lips there. Edit that out. That was a Freudian slip.

Steve:                   Freudian slip.

Matt:                     Oh, you don’t have to edit it out. No one will hate me for that.

Steve:                   Casein’s bad too, so if you’re gonna have your Weet-Bix and milk for breakfast, you’re screwed.

Matt:                     But, breast milk.

Steve:                   Oh, breast milk’s fine.

Matt:                     I’m a bit sidetracked here now.

Steve:                   Yeah, I know. We can’t get off the breast milk.

Matt:                     I’m thinking about breast milk on my cereal.

Steve:                   So it’s a good one there, too. Another thing is, if you remove your appendix it’s a risk factor too for ulcerative colitis.

Matt:                     Is that right?

Steve:                   Yeah.

Matt:                     So our appendix, people don’t know there’s a lot of theories about that. But one interesting thing I read that I looked at is a little nursery for a microbiome for our large intestine. It’s our microbiome to a certain degree, and the short chain fatty acids that they’re making in response to our fiber, that’s gonna determine our immune profile and the health of our mucosa in the gut wall. To rebuild your gut wall, to rebuild your mucosa, it’d be madness to think that we need to absorb nutrients past that mucosa to put into your bloodstream to float around your body to ask for them to come back. Most of the nutrients that go to your mucosa are coming direct from your food, microbiome into the mucosa so it can heal. So your microbiome is extremely important, and making sure you don’t have too many, because remember, this is autoimmune and highly inflammatory. If you have too many bugs while you’ve got a leaky gut wall, then there’s no such thing as a low dose. Your body thinks you’re constantly infected by stuff, because you’re getting too much exposure to these microbes, so then your immune cells have to fire up and attack them all the time.

Steve:                   They do. Funny, there’s a great paper released called Inflammatory Bowel Disease, and it was published this year again, or 2018 is what … no, this year in nature, spring in nature. It was published in the journal of current treatment options in gastroenterology, and the title of it … and of much of this … is called The Gut Microbiome Is A Target For Inflammatory Bowel Disease Treatment. Are We There Yet? And the answer of the paper is yes, we are. Sorry to be a [crosstalk 00:39:06].

Matt:                     Spoiler alert.

Steve:                   Basically you’ve got to look after the gut microbiome, and you’ve gotta make sure that there’s goodies there, and not too many, and you’re absolutely right. So you’ve just … this great paper talks about that the gut microbiome is vitally important. The problem is, medicine ignores this, and I know this because I’ve talked to a lot of doctors, I’ve relayed it to one, and he says, “No, they’re just commensal bacteria that are there.” This is a massive area, because often they’re prescribed antibiotics.

Matt:                     Yeah. Yup.

Steve:                   And what does that do?

Matt:                     Which reduces the diversity, but also allows others to grow, wipes out certain strains only with the natural treatments. You’ve gotta think strategy. You’ve gotta really think of the strategy, and you’ve got to imagine what this mucosa looks like. That’s why I keep trying to create this imagery about the slime and the ulceration. The challenge with treating stuff is, things get stuck in the poop and in the mucus, and they don’t get to the membrane. So when you look at creating a blend of herbs, for example, think of things like turmeric, and another one, berberine. They stain anything they touch bright yellow. They will do that to your gut wall as well, and they taste … berberine is horrible, it tastes just like bile. But they’re bright yellow, and they stick to the membranes like you would not believe, but they can really struggle to get through that mucus. So what you use is frankincense and myrrh. They’re famous from burning in gatherings, for religious ceremonies or whatever.

Steve:                   Like, “Dee-dee-dee-dee.”

Matt:                     Yeah, yeah.

Steve:                   Yeah, I remember those ones.

Matt:                     Yeah, that’s what frankincense sounds like.

Steve:                   Yeah, that’s it.

Matt:                     It’s that, “Ching-ching, ching-ching. You look like a stinky grub. Ching-ching, ching-ching at you.” They’re the sort of things. But the reason why they burn it is because it can get up into the cracks, it can get into the wood, it can get into the clothing, and has an antimicrobial sort of effect.

Steve:                   Very much so.

Matt:                     So when you take turmeric … sorry, frankincense and myrrh, they break up the mucus, they break up the biofilm and they break up the shell that’s in the way of getting to the mucosa to allow things like turmeric, berberine, resveratrols, all these other nice nutrients to get into the mucosa and have the antiinflammatory immune modulating effect. So, just got to imagine what’s happening in the gut, and as people get a flare-up it’s really hard to break through that. What are you smiling at this time?

Steve:                   No, no, no. I’m just talking about [crosstalk 00:41:27], just thinking, it’s true. It’s true.

Matt:                     Every time I talk about bums, you giggle. Like then.

Steve:                   I can’t help myself. I don’t know, it’s just [crosstalk 00:41:31]-

Matt:                     You’re so immature, Steve.

Steve:                   I’m 50.

Matt:                     You need to be adult, like me.

Steve:                   I’m now 50, I should have grown out of it.

Matt:                     Let me be your example of an adult.

Steve:                   Yes.

Matt:                     So, ganoderma, turmeric, frankincense, myrrh, berberine, other things like resveratrol. Another thing that’s really handy are bioflavanoids. Quercetin, rutin, luteolin. Look at you, you did so well not to smile when I said rutin.

Steve:                   I didn’t wanna smile when you said rutin.

Matt:                     Thinking about rutin in your bum, or were you just-

Steve:                   Because rutin’s good for your bowels. That’s what I was trying to say.

Matt:                     R-U-T-I-N. Yeah.

Steve:                   Oh, yeah, that thing is called rutin. See, people who don’t know what rutin is, they’re thinking we’re just talking about rooting.

Matt:                     Why are you making that … why’d you shake your body when you said that, then? I just got a little insight into what it’s like.

Steve:                   Rooting [crosstalk 00:42:21].

Matt:                     He made eye contact and shook his body when he said rooting.

Steve:                   I’m just trying to keep it all a laugh.

Matt:                     No, don’t do that anymore.

Steve:                   I’ll put the voice on, does that help?

Matt:                     No, that just makes it next-level.

Steve:                   I’ve got the red pen for the voice.

Matt:                     No, we’re getting complaints about the voice.

Steve:                   Well, can I [crosstalk 00:42:37]-

Matt:                     You’re not turning any chairs with that voice. No, not at all.

Steve:                   It’s funny, you talk about ganoderma, the mushrooms and that, and what happens is to experiment on all these things, you can’t just give people ulcerative colitis. You can give a rat dextran sodium sulfate, which gives the rat ulcerative colitis, so it’s a great model to test all this stuff on. They test drugs and everything on it, it’s a fantastic way to give a rat ulcerative colitis. But the best way to treat it is with mushrooms.

Matt:                     Yeah, right.

Steve:                   Because in one study done very recently, it found that they actually caused alleviated colitis for … this actually alleviated it.

Matt:                     Yeah, right? So, ganoderma?

Steve:                   Ganoderma, yeah.

Matt:                     So your reishi ganoderma mushroom.

Steve:                   Yeah. So, now you’re talking about … we’re talking about tumors.

Matt:                     And it’s bloody nice as a stock, eh? I told you, hey, I buy my just pure reishi powder and we use that instead of beef stock. So if there’s any vegans out there looking for a meaty-flavored stock … not meaty-flavored. I don’t know what the … umami.

Steve:                   Umami, that’s it.

Matt:                     If you’re looking for that good umami action, that’s bloody brilliant for it. And what’s really cool about it, Steve, is that most of the research on ganoderma all goes back to the same thing. It has an ability to influence the cytokines, which are the chemical messengers. So what it does is where you’ve got these immune cells going, “Man, smash that autoimmune disease over there like it’s an [inaudible 00:43:57], or smash that with mucus,” and on the other side it’s saying, “Smash that with high grade inflammation,” all because of these chemical messages. Ganoderma interacts with the dendritic cells, the antigen-presenting cells, and changes the way that the immune system … to stop it from polarizing, to say, “No, we need more of a balanced approach.”

Steve:                   It’s a beautiful supplement to take. We’ve talked a lot about Resilience here, and I mean, we’ve talked about GutRight, to get your gut right. But Resilience has the ganoderma, turmeric, boswellia. It has [crosstalk 00:44:26] in it.

Matt:                     Yeah. Now, that’s the one that you want. Yeah, yeah. And it’s a very powerful antiinflammatory.

Steve:                   Exactly. So-

Matt:                     And it all does it by getting into that mucosa. Like I said, the combination of frankincense and myrrh to break up that surface tension to allow the other turmerics and ganoderma to penetrate to the membrane, that’s a really important part of it. And it’s also got Chinese wormwood, which’ll eradicate the parasites before they ever grow.

Steve:                   Yes, of course.

Matt:                     So it’s like a perfect little scenario for ulcerative colitis.

Steve:                   And it’s great, because we talk about GutRight being good, and it would be brilliant of course, but … and we’ve had great reports from that too.

Matt:                     And the polyphenols and that sort of stuff, they’re very powerful. Plus, I was talking about those bioflavanoids, and one claim to fame for those is they stabilize your immune cells, so the immune cells release less inflammatory triggers, and that’s how they have their antiinflammatory effect. But we think of bioflavanoids, they’re brilliant for any mucosal inflammation as well as sports injuries and that sort of stuff.

Steve:                   Yeah. No, it’s absolutely brilliant, and the research is boring as hell. And so ganoderma is a wonderful one, of course. It hasn’t got the side effects of any of the drugs, too. There’s some horrendous drugs out there now for treating-

Matt:                     And also oils. You’ve gotta really-

Steve:                   Oils are good.

Matt:                     And not just fish oils. Yeah, don’t just go EPA-DHA, because they’re designed to work in one particular fashion. Go for your big variety of plant oils, because it’s your microbiome and your mucosa that would pick and choose which way. Because your oils are more than just providing antiinflammatory EPA-DHA. They’re also providing structural stuff for cellular integrity. They’re also providing the other nutrients to regulate bloodflow and control the constriction and dilation of blood vessels, which is a massively important part of ulcerative colitis.

Steve:                   Yes, absolutely. And the later drugs that are coming out now are the ones that regulate the cytokines, the JAK inhibitors, which is just another kinase.

Matt:                     Yeah. Yeah, that’s funny.

Steve:                   Janus kinase is what the full name is, and they stop the release of interleukin-6 and those sort of things. And what is it, tofacitinib is the one that they’re giving for ulcerative colitis, and it has very nasty side effects. But it’s like for example, when they first tested it on animals, it caused cancers.

Matt:                     Yeah. Oh, that’s true.

Steve:                   But they still went ahead with the trials.

Matt:                     Because it destroys the immune system.

Steve:                   It destroys the immune system because it basically stops the immune signals signaling. You talked about that great analogy of the interleukins signaling. Well, it stops kind of all that.

Matt:                     Yeah, yeah. So it doesn’t know when it’s … your immune surveillance against cancers and abnormal cells is not there.

Steve:                   Yeah, exactly. Because when those-

Matt:                     And that’s how you induce your apoptosis and removal.

Steve:                   Exactly, by a tumor necrosis factor which is a factor that causes tumors to die. Tumor necrosis factor, I love that name. One, because it actually tells you what it’s for.

Matt:                     You know another thing I just thought of? When they heal the ulcers … I’ve read a few papers about bone broth and like that to heal the ulcers. When they actually look at the ulceration in the mucosa to see if something’s healing, they actually measure the hydroxyproline accumulation within the wound. Then they say, “Okay, so we supplement with collagen.” The collagen does things. Part of what it does is about 25 to 30% of the collagen molecule itself is a thing called hydroxyproline, and that hydroxyproline basically gets incorporated into the ulcer, and that’s what does the mesh to heal it all over.

Steve:                   Amazing, isn’t it?

Matt:                     And rebuilds the connective tissue. So when I was listening to all these collagen experts telling me about it, and I was researching bone broths and I was doing all of that sort of stuff, I actually started wondering what vegans do in this situation?

Steve:                   What do they do? What the hell do they … what can they do?

Matt:                     They basically eat proline and vitamin C, but … man, shitty segue, Steve. What are you drinking? Essential amino. I didn’t even know what you were bloody drinking. I was just thinking, “What do they do?” I would say, “Well, obviously they turn for the bottle.” No, hydroxyproline. So we made a vegan-friendly hydroxyproline, just so we can give the vegans what everyone gets from collagens and bone broth, and-

Steve:                   Yeah. Now, that relates perfectly with ulcerative colitis, because too much animal food is bad for your colon.

Matt:                     Yeah, yeah. So you can load up the hydroxyproline, get the healing benefits that we’d normally get from collagen, and that’s what’s up. The funny thing is, with collagen, the massive amount of it’s glycine. So you’ve got about 10 to 20% of the molecules glycine. You’re looking at 25% hydroxyproline. It’s actually really good for ulcerative colitis, but if you’re a vegan you can’t touch it. So you can just use the hydroxyproline and extra glycine, and you’re good to go.

Steve:                   Absolutely. And glycine is a powder you can get from the-

Matt:                     It has vegan essential aminos. We’ve got the glutamine and everything as well, which helps to heal up that leaky gut wall.

Steve:                   Helps, yeah. Increases hygiene in the gut. Very good. We’re starting to get onto treatments a bit, so this paper talks about going out in the sun, which is getting you vitamin D, or you can supplement with vitamin D. But leaves, vegetables and fruit, fish and poultry are beneficial for the gut.

Matt:                     Yeah, great.

Steve:                   Soluble fiber from psyllium and pulses. Healthy oils, as you mentioned, although margarine is bad for your colon, so watch out for any of those with the ticks on it.

Matt:                     Yeah, get away from the ticks.

Steve:                   Yeah, jeez.

Matt:                     Heart ticks, we’re referring to.

Steve:                   Yeah, exactly. Also eat less of red meats and processed meats, sugary beverages, soft drinks, juices and sweets. I’ll bet this is kinda telling you something you probably know, but margarine’s on that list. Fast foods, corn oil, these are all bad. I mean, it’s not … yes, they’re bad for you, but they’re bad for your colon as well. And so don’t get, “There’s nothing with your diet.” It’s a lot to do with your diet, unfortunately. It’s a little bit sad. It’s a bit unfortunate that our government really is taking a back step to this, and has not been up to date with the literature. I mean, it does … I mean, just common sense. Your colon, food. It’s not exactly rocket science. If you had something wrong with your ear, and maybe the food … hmm, don’t know. But this is classically food. So that’s the sort of diet you should be on, and get out in the sun of course. All that sort of stuff. And get your microbiome correct. As you say, this is where-

Matt:                     But you’ve gotta balance out the immune system. If you see signs of a polarized immune system where you’re predisposed to things like asthma, eczema from an early age, if you’re constantly having issues with parasites and that sort of stuff, they’re all signs that you need to get that immune system balanced. Once you get that immune system balanced, you can significantly reduce your reactions to this, and your flare-ups. So, but understanding that … so what we’re looking at is that allergic aspect to the immune system triggers the reaction, so you can get flare-ups from anything from inhalants to pollutants to the change of the season when the new things flower.

Matt:                     The other thing is, man, when you’re talking about the food … the reason why I’m waffling this way is because, not many people realize, but you need to eat with the seasons. I keep talking about it. You’ve gotta eat local, you’ve gotta eat with the seasons. We get IGG testing, so allergy testing, we do to see which foods we’re reacting to. What you’ll find is, when you give someone a test, what they’ve been eating a lot of is what they have a lot of immune complexes to, because they’ve been eating a lot of them and then they get the immune complexes to it. So when you keep eating those foods, you get more and more and then you start reacting to them. Then what happens is we go, “Man, right now you’re reacting to these foods,” so we take them off those foods and we tell them to eat these other foods that their body doesn’t seem to be reacting to. Coincidentally foods they haven’t been eating, usually.

Steve:                   Yeah, of course.

Matt:                     And then what happens is we do the followup test, all the foods they’ve avoided, those immune complexes come down for sure. But all the foods that they’ve been eating, all of a sudden they start gaining immune complexes. This is not saying that allergy testing is bullshit, or bogus, or they’re designed to make money, because people have forgotten we’re not supposed to eat the same food every bloody day.

Steve:                   That’s right.

Matt:                     Otherwise you acquire an allergen to it, you acquire … you start to overdose, you start to accumulate parts out of that food that’s too much, and your body creates an immune reaction to say, “Don’t eat that anymore, you’ve had enough.”

Steve:                   Yes, exactly.

Matt:                     And so you need to cycle those foods, so sometimes … and this is where I also agree with that statement coming from the Queensland government. It’s one thing to avoid the foods, but you don’t have to avoid them forever.

Steve:                   Forever, yeah.

Matt:                     But realize what a typical season is. You might wanna be avoiding those things for at least three to six months.

Steve:                   Yeah, of course.

Matt:                     Not just for three to six days while you wait for your symptoms to reduce before you start reintroducing. We need to have a revolving diet that works, and the best way to do that is eat local. If you wanna know what’s in season, then go to your bloody local farmer’s market and find out what they’ve got a shitload of.

Steve:                   Exactly. That’s a great point.

Matt:                     That’s the way to do it, and you’ll start the change and cycle through your diet. It’s only when we’re in the habit of eating the same foods every day that we’re sitting there going, “What am I allergic to? What am I good to?” And then you’re, “Oh, I never know.” And then, “I’ve taken all these foods out, I’ve put these in, now I’m reacting to those. Oh, my body’s a mess.” It’s like, no, that’s normal. You’ve just gotta understand that, and we’re starting to get a better understanding. All the research on microbiome and immunes and cytokines, it’s all pointing to the same thing.

Steve:                   Absolutely is, and it’s good to note. Also, obviously if you go to your market you can also see what’s expensive and what’s cheap. Usually the cheap stuff’s in season, because there’s a ton of it around. The market reacts, and the price drops. So, farmer’s market’s a better idea, but this is a secondary sort of way of looking at it. Look at the prices.

Matt:                     Yup. That’s why avocados are good for us, but … like when we had Simon from Plant Proof here and he was saying, “It’s like, you’ve gotta understand that you can go vegan, you can go these sort of ways. But if you’re shipping avocados all over the world to get them to you all year round so you can have them every day, well, that’s not good for you and it’s not good for the environment. So you need to cycle through.”

Steve:                   No, absolutely true.

Matt:                     I’d never eat avocado if I had to pick them. That’s one thing I cannot bloody grow.

Steve:                   Avocado? Hmm.

Matt:                     That’s why I just eat the seeds now. I’ve given up.

Steve:                   Well, Beck and I are struggling with tomatoes at the moment. We’re winning, but slowly.

Matt:                     Mate, I’ll tell you the key.

Steve:                   What?

Matt:                     Eat them.

Steve:                   Eat them?

Matt:                     And just go and poop them somewhere else.

Steve:                   Not in the toilet?

Matt:                     I can’t grow tomatoes in my tomato place, but I have tomatoes popping up everywhere. Under all the fruit trees, because I’m assuming the birds have been eating them and then pooping them, and that sort of stuff. But I’ve got tomatoes popping up everywhere except where I plant them, and those ones are tough as nail, hearty as hell. It’s really weird, because there was this weird spot behind the bushes and everything where a whole heap of tomatoes popped up after some tradies spent some time at my place.

Steve:                   Oh, no. Oh, I think you told me about the tradies.

Matt:                     Yeah, but they’re good. They’re the ones I bring into the office and give to everyone. Share them around.

Steve:                   Share them around. There’s one more treatment strategy that is interesting, and relates to the gut microbiome. It’s fecal microbial transplant.

Matt:                     Oh, yeah? Yeah.

Steve:                   So what they do is they say, “Oh, you’ve got bad S-H-I-T, so we’re gonna knock all that S-H-I-T out with an antibody.”

Matt:                     Are you spelling shit?

Steve:                   Yeah, I’m just trying not to swear.

Matt:                     I’ve said shit 10 times.

Steve:                   Oh, have you? I don’t know if we’re allowed to.

Matt:                     And now all of a sudden the S-H-I-Ts.

Steve:                   Oh, okay. Well, you’ve got bad shit, [crosstalk 00:55:12].

Matt:                     I think they know what fecal is. You could use fecal.

Steve:                   I suppose you could say that.

Matt:                     That was the word.

Steve:                   You’ve got dysbiotic fecal matter-

Matt:                     Thank you.

Steve:                   … in your colon. And so what they’re doing is they’re-

Matt:                     Why, thank you, Steve.

Steve:                   Yes. And then they’re flushing all the bad stuff out, putting some good stuff in from a healthy volunteer, and that causes remission in ulcerative colitis. Which, all right, is dramatic.

Matt:                     How do they do it, though? Are they doing it orally, or up the date?

Steve:                   Up the date. I just had to give you a graphic-

Matt:                     You’ve got a handful there, Steve. That was a horrendous motion. [crosstalk 00:55:39] “Here, I’ll just do it like this, mate.” Did you lube it or anything? You just grabbed a handful and just stuck it there.

Steve:                   I just have to give graphical representation, you know, in large. This is not to scale.

Matt:                     I hope it’s not to scale, Steve. Holy hell.

Steve:                   It’s more like that.

Matt:                     Oh, can I push in your stool?

Steve:                   All right. Well, I’ll do it to scale, then.

Matt:                     That’s … ugh, that’s worse.

Steve:                   You put a little bit up like that, and then you inject a little with a syringe into the colon, just past the rectum.

Matt:                     Rectum, all right. I’m never going out with you again.

Steve:                   The colon’s got … this is just … he’s crying.

Matt:                     Yeah. Well, he’s booked a consult with you, that’s why. He’s shitting himself, literally. Yeah.

Steve:                   So you just push it past the rectum-

Matt:                     Stop that.

Steve:                   Just into the transverse colon there, and you get a little bit of fecal up there.

Matt:                     So, wait a minute. You’ve gone from the rectum into their transverse colon, Steve. You’re up past your elbow, mate.

Steve:                   Oh, not transverse. Sorry, sorry. Descending colon.

Matt:                     You’re up past your elbow there. Keep going.

Steve:                   Yeah, you’ve gotta get up and then a little bit off to the left there, and you’re fine. And then it’s left in there … it’s like, yeah. Yeah, it’s-

Matt:                     It’s better if they pull their knees up.

Steve:                   Yeah, exactly. You lie on your side and pull the knees up, and then you go.

Matt:                     It straightens out the sigmoid colon. Yeah, that’s why … man, that was my funniest thing in the clinic. All these people used to come through with these children with poo problems, and you’re saying, “Get them up, get their feet up on the chair.” We’re designed to squat, and all that sort of stuff, otherwise you’ve got this kink in your bowels you can’t get through. You’ve worked out a way.

Steve:                   I’ve worked out a way.

Matt:                     Good stuff, Steve.

Steve:                   It’s excellent. You lie them on the side and you … I’ve seen the procedure.

Matt:                     The reason why I asked if they do that orally or not, because when they … there’s a lot of data now, because that fecal transfer information’s starting to get really good, and a lot of people are starting to get right into it. But it’s not real practical when they’ve gotta go do it your way.

Steve:                   No.

Matt:                     So what some companies have looked at doing is encapsulating the fecal stuff, which they then take … man, you would not wanna burp, would you? But anyway, so they put other people’s poo into a capsule, which you then eat. They can achieve a similar result with the oral delivery systems of the fecal matter, but the difference is when they go oral they have to sterilize it. They heat deactivate all the bugs, so they’re killing the microbiome, which shows that interactions to dead bugs has an interaction with their mucosal immunity. Dead bugs are just as powerful at inducing an antiinflammatory response, or a cellular immune response that reduces our allergic inflammation, because your body doesn’t wait to see if they’re alive or dead. This is why dust and the hygiene hypothesis is amazing. This is why when you read research on probiotics, and we’re talking about modbiotics with GutRight, people go, “Oh, but I read the probiotic research. 80% of that probiotic supplement they used is dead bacteria.”

Steve:                   And that’s fine.

Matt:                     Fermented food, sauerkrauts and kimchis and bloody goat’s milk kefir … all that sort of stuff, there’s a lot of dead bugs in there. And so again, this is all confirming that the dead bugs are great. Using products like GutRight with polyphenols, most of the actions are polyphenols, is killing off the bugs and having antiinflammatory antioxidant actions as well. So dead bugs are good.

Steve:                   Yes, exactly. And absolutely, it’s an incredible research area where they decided to take fecal matter and transplant it to someone who’s got … so it shows you the gut microbiome is pretty much it.

Matt:                     You know where they come up with a lot of that, apart from it makes sense? The coprophagy from the rats. In the initial trials in rats, they could induce a big change in a rat. But then what rats tend to do is they eat each other’s poo, and then what happens is … so they could induce a metabolic change to make one rat group fat and another group skinny, but then they run around and eat each other’s poo and share the microbiome and share the combinations, and then they all end up back around the middle. So they’re basically showing you can catch, or you can eat other people’s poo, Steve.

Steve:                   Oh. Well, can’t wait to try that one, huh?

Matt:                     No worries. I’ve lined up a trial. I was hoping you’d say that.

Steve:                   It’s funny. Would you want it to be … would you want [crosstalk 00:59:49]?

Matt:                     Yeah, so then they got on fecal transfer.

Steve:                   I just think-

Matt:                     I don’t know. I mean, there’s people like Mick Galley. He can eat anything, his physique is amazing, he’s a brilliant athlete. His levels of inflammation through his body are really normal and under control. Man, if I could colonize what he’s got in his gut into my gut, I could be [crosstalk 01:00:07] by next year.

Steve:                   Yeah. Yeah, I’d want some. I’ll tell you what, I mean, he does eat good sometimes but not a lot, and he still looks like Superman. I mean, seriously, he is-

Matt:                     Yeah. And he’s got your tat.

Steve:                   And he’s got a tattoo of me.

Matt:                     Yeah. Anyway, enough of that Mick Galley love.

Steve:                   Yeah. Hey, Mick, if you’re watching, we’re missing you, mate. He’s in America.

Matt:                     There you go. Oh, yeah.

Steve:                   Yeah, so this is fecal transplant, which works really well. But it shows you that something like GutRight would be a great way to start. You don’t have to swallow any poo, and you don’t have to receive any poo in the methods that I described earlier [crosstalk 01:00:44].

Matt:                     Yeah. And I went to great efforts to make sure GutRight tastes like you still are eating poo. Just saying. So yeah, we’ll take your two-star reviews on the flavor, but no.

Steve:                   Oh, it’s not too bad. Yeah, yeah. No, look, it’s much more flavorsome than this method, let me tell you.

Matt:                     It’s very flavorsome. But that method … I’ve never tried it, Steve, so I’m glad you’ve got a point of reference for this.

Steve:                   No, look, I had to pull up a study. It shows that it works, so-

Matt:                     You’ve got a bit of corn in your teeth.

Steve:                   Oh, yes, okay.

Matt:                     All right, now, enough of this bleeding asshole stuff.

Steve:                   Yeah, enough of this stuff. So that’s pretty much ulcerative colitis.

Matt:                     Well, that’s awesome. So, anyone out there, what I’d do is I’d look into the resilience, I’d look into the GutRight, definitely look at those foods. But you’re gonna have to change all the time. Your food’s gonna have to constantly evolve and eat with the seasons, and that sort of stuff. Berberine, lots of sunshine, lots of fresh air.

Steve:                   Vitamin D.

Matt:                     Try to reduce as much stress as possible. When you’re in the healing phase, nothing heals better than hydroxyproline. That fits in with either the essential aminos or your collagen.

Steve:                   Yup.

Matt:                     All right, sweet.

Steve:                   Awesome.

Matt:                     That was really cool. So we’re gonna write up a review, Steve. Well done.

Steve:                   Excellent. Brilliant. It has some great stuff in it, so hopefully this has been a … because it is a pretty distressing disease, really.

Matt:                     Oh, it bloody is.

Steve:                   It’s awful. People have their colons removed. It’s quite dangerous, quite deadly.

Matt:                     Yeah. One of my cousins, this was her big problem. My whole life growing up I remember talking about my cousin with her health, and the colostomy bags, and bits and pieces. In my clinic it was a major one. It’s weird, too, but the downside … not downsides, but it has a massive impact on the quality of your life, because you get seepage, you get irritation, it just burns. You’re never comfortable, and then you’re always considering, “When I wanna go somewhere, I wanna do something, what’s my likely scenario?” And then there’s the confusion about the foods. With ulcerative colitis, you never can work out what foods are fine for you. You’re constantly evolving your diet, and cycling is probably a better word, but people typically aren’t doing the cycling. They’re trying to find a diet that works for them, but just understand it’ll only work for you for a specific period of time and then you have to change.

Steve:                   Exactly. There’s bad foods you avoid, but it is a bit hit-and-miss. It’s a bit tricky, and because the immune system changes, so it’s absolutely incredible. Well, we’ve got an iTunes review I can read out if you want.

Matt:                     Yeah, why not?

Steve:                   Let’s have a look. It says, [inaudible 01:03:13], “The best products out there. Matt, Jeff and the team are so knowledge, and the podcast’s delivered in an easy to understand way, with the added bonus of humor.” Certainly today would’ve copped a bit of that. “The fertility podcast helped me, along with taking Alpha Venus, and now I have a gorgeous daughter.”

Matt:                     Oh, nice.

Steve:                   Taking Venus, daughter. Mars, boys.

Matt:                     Oh, no. I had another Mars person, and they told me that they had a girl.

Steve:                   Really? What are the stats? I can’t remember at the moment.

Matt:                     I think it’s … well, I don’t know, because I think this bloke was too embarrassed to tell us because it ruined our story. So I hope there’s not all these other people out there that have got all these girls from Alpha Mars letting us believe that we’ve got a baby boy maker.

Steve:                   Right, okay.

Matt:                     But, anyhoo.

Steve:                   Oh, jeez. Classic.

Matt:                     Yeah, cool.

Steve:                   All right, well, here’s some questions anyway. This is from Matthew, so don’t forget his name.

Matt:                     Oh, it’s from me.

Steve:                   Yeah. “Hi there. After listening to a lot of your great podcasts, around September 2018 I made the decision to purchase some GutRight and MultiFood in an effort to try and get on top of my wife, Steph’s, and my conditions.” When I said “on top of my wife” I was thinking, “Oh, jeez.”

Matt:                     I was gonna say, Alpha Mars. This is easy.

Steve:                   Yeah, yeah. This is easy. “Both Steph and I started with a 10-day GutRight cleanse, however, it is hard for me to maintain muscle mass. I still added a lot of rice and granola on training days, and both of us had various amounts of dairy, milk, although mine was only through natural yogurt and whey protein isolate. Since completing the 10-day challenge, both of us have taken a maintenance dose of GutRight and stacked it with MultiFood. I have since stopped taking any other multivitamins, as well as I still take St. John’s Wart and valerian forte, or fort. Steph thinks her ulcerative colitis has improves, and is less ‘niggardly’ since taking GutRight and MultiFood. However, had a bad flareup in February 2019, which has I think raised more questions about her health, and now more than ever she wants to fix her condition.

Steve:                   “I purchased Resilience in the hope that the ulcerative colitis will hit out of the park. However, she seems to suffer from severe cramps when she takes it. Is this something you would recommend pushing through, or is it indication of actually working, purging her gut for bugs? I’ve also considered getting her the complete four-pillar stack, but we can’t afford it. I’ve considered whether any other ATP Stuff will help, but I think I’m just trying things for the sake of it. During Steph’s flareups she was prescribed [methazelavine 01:05:38] …” That’s, of course, one of the same drugs we were talking about earlier … “Administered directly into the anus. This flareup was back in February, but it still has not completely resolved itself. The podcast recently, when you spoke to …” Oh, hang on. “The podcast recently when you spoke to, I think it was Sophie, about her battle with ulcerative colitis-”

Matt:                     [Fofie 01:06:01]. I remember that.

Steve:                   Yes. “Was really relevant, especially when she spoke about the flareups, and simply being prescribed with a FODMAP diet, which I think is completely shit.” We can say that word now. “I can see why anyone would think eating white bread is good for you. Steph also raised with her specialist that she has been taking GutRight and MultiFood, and he basically said, “Well, it might work, but I doubt it,” and proceeded to prescribe the above mentioned medications. Like Sophie’s situation, it’s a matter of Steph turning to bone broth, or do you persist with the Resilience? Or is there something that could be missing?

Steve:                   “With regards to my conditions I’ve noticed a slight improvement to my folliculitis, but not an improvement to my anal itch. However, I do think more each day that it is related to my anxiety. I have however stopped taking the advanced sleep tablet,” that’s the generic one, “as I think it was making me drowsy. Now I take a valerian product instead and wake up feeling much more refreshed. My headaches are reduced, although they have not gone, and my ‘fuzzy head’ still gets me on most a daily basis. At a loss of what could be causing this and the anal itch. I’ve not tried Cordarex as I might feel I’ve been taking stuff for the sake of it, similar to Steph.

Steve:                   “I did actually get a free bottle of ZMST, which I thought improved my sleep to begin with, but towards the end of the bottle I noticed my headaches are much worse, which have reduced again since finishing the bottle. I may have one of those people who have gone to the other end of the scale, and had too much magnesium? I remember from the podcast you can get symptoms when you are both high and low on magnesium. Any help would be great. I’ve recently purchased AMP-V for Steph, as she wanted to burn fat and also suppress craving in an effort to try and budge the post-baby weight and the old fat she’s had for years. Steph thinks this has helped a little, but not significantly. I’ve started taking this on and off simply as a pre-workout.

Steve:                   “Noah is doing much better now. Although I don’t give him any of the ATP products, I make a very big effort to ensure he has less processed food and rather has a diet rich in polyphenols, and with all of the peels and skins on where possible. Noah has had significantly less to almost no chest infections, coughs, in close to 6-9 months now. Could it be he was not bottle/formula fed? Zoe is also doing well, considering her bad start. She is now around the 50th percentile for length, weight and head circumference. She is being formula/bottle fed, though. I reckon her eczema has come from that, because she isn’t eating anything else, so what it could be, right?

Steve:                   “She may also have FPES as an intolerance to a certain protein in rice and fish, to name a couple. We are in the process of testing those, simply feeding her various foods and waiting to see if there is any reaction. Fingers crossed there is nothing there, and it just was a bad week or two, as the reaction initially was quite severe. Think gastro-like symptoms. I think that is it. Love to hear from you. Thank you.” And that’s from Matthew. Wow. Big one, mate.

Matt:                     Cool. Yeah, all right. Let’s start at the start. I’ve got some notes. First of all, when you bring in the Resilience for the ulcerative colitis, it’s a very powerful antiinflammatory. What we’ve got is ulcerated mucus … sorry, ulcerated membrane full of mucus, and when we take away that mucus all of a sudden the ulcers then get exposed to poo, and that can create the cramping and the pain. What you wanna do is keep going with the resilience, because we need to heal that over. But we wanna then do something to kinda protect the ulcer, or heal the ulcer faster so you don’t get the pain from it, and that’s where we use the collagen.

Matt:                     So you could use either the no-whey protein or the vegan one, if you’re vegan. So Resilience plus no-whey. The other way to do it is go into the health food store and get something like a slippery elm bark. Now, slippery elm bark, it’s an interesting one. Sometimes it makes things worse, sometimes it makes it better. You just have to have a little bit of a play-around. But what is is it’s a jelly-like fiber, so if you’ve got too much moisture in the bowels it’ll absorb some of that. So you can use it for diarrhea or constipation, but what it does, it just creates a little bit of a barrier across the mucosa, helps to control some of that mucosa and lubricate through the ulcer while we’re healing it.

Matt:                     So Resilience and no-whey I’d stick with to heal that over, and ZMST. Use the ZMST there for the healing. We need that zinc. If you don’t have zinc you can’t heal, so zinc and hydroxyproline are the main things that will heal over these wounds, and it’s the Resilience taking the mucus layer off it that can create the cramping. But it’s still working, it’s just you’ve gotta go through a little bit of a weird phase.

Steve:                   And that’s Steph … is it for Steph?

Matt:                     Yeah, it’s for Steph. So ZMST, no-whey, Resilience there.

Steve:                   Right.

Matt:                     And then with Matt, what I noticed here … so the ZMST, just have a look at your iron. The only time that I can imagine ZMST creating headaches would be if you’re anemic, and then if you’re taking zinc and iron at the same time it can aggravate that, and then you might, because zinc binds to iron. So if you’re borderline blood levels and now you’ve gone to anemia, which creates low blood volume and you get headaches from that. I’d be interested to know if the ZMST fixed the anal itch, because it should do if it’s a zinc deficiency. Otherwise we’re looking at an allergic inflammatory reaction, so I would use the Resilience.

Matt:                     And also with Steph, I wrote down here before, Aurum Oil would be really handy because the oils in amongst that mucosa, that’s just so important for the healing and the flushing of the blood, and all that sort of stuff. So for Steph do Aurum Oil, ZMST, no-whey, Resilience. For Matt, the main thing here is try that Cordarex. Do your valerian at night, but take one Cordarex three times a day. The Cordarex through the day … now, okay, think about it this way as well. One of the main factors in the Cordarex that’s helping with that is the turmeric, so if you’ve already purchased Resilience or have already got Resilience you can use Resilience, one capsule three times a day, to take a lot of burden off your stressed nervous system.

Matt:                     At the same time, supporting your immune system should help the folliculitis and all that sort of stuff. And then what happens is you take your valerian at night to help you go into that deeper sleep. That would be a pretty cool protocol. So I’d do Cordarex, one of those three times a day, and I’d do the … you keep on your valerian at night. And that’s it there, really. Then finally, when I’m looking down here, you mentioned stuff about Noah having less processed food, high rich polyphenols and that sort of stuff. That’s exactly how you regulate your gut microbiome, and that’s how our microbiome regulates our mucosal immunity, so you’re on the right track there. Just keep working there.

Matt:                     In regards to Zoe, you mentioned some eczema, and not sure whether it’s the formula. One thing that I do with kids is I have a look at where the eczema is. If it’s coming from inside your body, typically your mucosal immunity in your gut, then you’ll find it in your hot spots on the outside, so the creases. That’s where you get it in the creases of the elbow, you get it along the groin, or you get the creases at any fat rolls or anything anywhere. Anywhere that’s really hot. Behind the knees, wrists, neck. That’s where you get those. If your eczema’s on the broad surfaces, so if it’s on the outside of the arms, if it’s on the legs, if it’s on the back and all that sort of stuff, they’re usually reacting to your detergent or your soaps. If it’s on a broad surface where something you’ve come in contact with, that’s contact dermatitis, that’s atopic dermatitis that’s reacting. Usually you’ve just gotta change your laundry detergent.

Steve:                   No. Yeah, of course.

Matt:                     And sometimes getting away from the ones that they call natural, because they go through and fill them up with these highly reactive fragrances. You wanna go for one that’s low allergenic or hypoallergenic, which sometimes is more chemicals, but it’s less allogenic potential.

Steve:                   Yeah. I know what you mean, yeah.

Matt:                     So have a look at that, where the creases are. If it’s in the hot spots then yeah, you might need to change the formula. There’s a reaction going on there, and look at that microbiome again. But if it’s not, if it’s on the broader surfaces and all over the face and that sort of stuff, then you’re probably reacting to something that you’re using in the house.

Steve:                   Yeah, that’s a good point. Wow, okay. That’s good. That’s great. All right, well-

Matt:                     What’d you get?

Steve:                   No, I just wrote down what you were saying about the product so I can give it to-

Matt:                     That’ll do, yeah. Send out some free stuff.

Steve:                   No, that’s great. We are, we’ll send out some free stuff.

Matt:                     Good stuff.

Steve:                   And that’s the only FAQ we got today.

Matt:                     You little bloody ripper.

Steve:                   That was pretty cool.

Matt:                     We’re done.

Steve:                   We’re done. Well-

Matt:                     All right, well, thanks for having us.

Steve:                   Absolutely.

Matt:                     Hopefully we helped anyone out there. What’s your last words, Steve?

Steve:                   Well, we’re gonna see you all next week. We’ve got a cool one next week.

Matt:                     That’s so many words. Now, I do this, but I throw out, “What’s your last words, Steve?” And then you’re, “Well, let me tell you a story about my last word.”

Steve:                   Last word. No, I’m looking forward to next week. Can we plug that? Because this one’s gonna be released this week, and we-

Matt:                     What’s happening next week?

Steve:                   Has it been confirmed? You know, what’s-her-name?

Matt:                     I can’t believe you called her what’s-her-name. I’m gonna tell her you forgot her name.

Steve:                   No, no. I didn’t mention her name because I didn’t wanna-

Matt:                     Oh, no, no. She’s coming in the survey.

Steve:                   Great.

Matt:                     So, no. Next week something amazing could be happening. Otherwise it’s the usual shit. Yeah.

Steve:                   Oh, that’ll be good.

Matt:                     Thanks for having us, again.

Steve:                   All right. We’ll see you guys next time. Bye.

Announcer:        Thanks for listening. And remember question everything. Well, except what we say.

References:

1. A comprehensive review and update on ulcerative colitis. Gajendran M1, Loganathan P2, Jimenez G3, Catinella AP4, Ng N5, Umapathy C6, Ziade N7, Hashash JG8. 0.1016/j.disamonth.2019.02.004

2. An Examination of Diet for the Maintenance of Remission in Inflammatory Bowel Disease. Haskey N1, Gibson DL2. doi: 10.3390/nu9030259.

3. The Gut Microbiome as a Target for IBD Treatment: Are We There Yet?Knox NC1,2, Forbes JD3,4, Van Domselaar G1,2, Bernstein CN5,6. doi: 10.1007/s11938-019-00221-w. mar2019

4. Effector T Helper Cell Subsets in Inflammatory Bowel Diseases. Tanbeena Imam,1 Sungtae Park,2 Mark H. Kaplan,1,* and Matthew R. Olson1,2,* 10.3389/fimmu.2018.01212 June 2018

5. Ganoderma lucidum polysaccharide improves rat DSS-induced colitis by altering cecal microbiota and gene expression of colonic epithelial cells. Jinli Xie, Yanghanxiu Liu, Bohui Chen, Guangwen Zhang, Shiyi Ou, Jianming Luo,* and Xichun Peng*doi: 10.29219/fnr.v63.1559 FEB 2019

6. Evaluation of dairy allergy among ulcerative colitis patientsArezo Judaki,1 Mohamadreza Hafeziahmadi,2 Atefe Yousefi,3 Mohamad Reza Havasian,3 Jafar Panahi,3Koroush Sayehmiri,4 and Sajjad Alizadeh3,*2014 Nov 27. doi: 10.6026/97320630010693
7. Compositional and Temporal Changes in the Gut Microbiome of Pediatric Ulcerative Colitis Patients Are Linked to Disease Course. Schirmer M1Denson L2Vlamakis H3A20Patel AS21Noe J22Kugathasan S8Walters T20Huttenhower C1Hyams J23Xavier RJ242018 Oct 10;24(4):600-610.e4. doi: 10.1016/j.chom.2018.09.009.
8.  Phytochemicals and inflammatory bowel disease: a review. Imam HossenSchool of Food and Chemical Engineering, Beijing Technology and Business University, Beijing, China; ; Beijing Key Lab of Plant Resource Research and Development, Beijing, China; ; Beijing Advanced Innovation Center for Food Nutrition and Human Health, Beijing, China;,Wu Hua,Luo Ting,Arshad Mehmood ORCID Icon,Song Jingyi,Xu Duoxia,Cao Yanping,Wu Hongqing,Gao Zhipeng,Zhang Kaiqi,Yan Fang & https://doi.org/10.1080/10408398.2019.1570913Xiao Junsong