In This Episode of the ATP Project, Matt and Steve chat about biomechanics, neurophysics and the wonderful methods by which you can help balance your body from a musculoskeletal and neurological point of view.
00:01:02 – Podcast Start
00:03:09 – How the nervous system works
00:04:15 – Survival nervous system
00:10:05 – Matts visit to Ken Ware
00:12:30 – Matt’s frown with intensity
00:14:31 – Defensive posture
00:15:49 – Techniques for grounding
00:20:37 – Ken Ware’s resetting the body
00:22:10 – working with intensity and angst
00:24:40 – Stress triggers
00:25:07 – interleukin 6
00:26:06 – tocilizumab
00:30:34 – Extreme athletes and defensive postures
00:33:20 – Matt’s interpretation of the Ken Ware experience/recalibration
00:38:53 – Ken Ware’s success stories
00:40:36 – Taking your brain out of the muscle connection
00:41:56 – Stress chemicals and defensive posture
00:47:04 – bio-directional
00:47:46 – Ken Ware’s initial observations (how it started)
00:51L44 – muscle memory
01:00:55 – The Science, Chemistry and Physics
01:01:48 – The tremors and seizures
01:02:56 – FAQ-01
01:12:05 – FAQ-02
01:21:49 – iTunes Review
Steve: Welcome to the ATP Project. Today we have an amazing podcast on biomechanics, neurophysics, and all wonderful methods by which you can help balance your body from a musculoskeletal point of view and a neurological point of view. So sit back and enjoy, listen, and have a great day.
Steve: As always this information is not designed to diagnose, treat, prevent or cure any condition and is for information purposes only. Please discuss any information in this podcast with your healthcare professional before making any changes to your current lifestyle. Stayed tuned the ATP Project is about to start.
Announcer: Welcome to the ATP Project. Delivering the irreverent truth about health, aging, performance and looking good. If you’re sick and tired of being sick and tired, ready to perform at your best, or somewhere in between, then sit back, relax, and open your mind as Jeff and Matt battle the status quo and discuss everything health related that can make you better.
Steve: Welcome to the ATP Project with your hosts Steve and Matt. Matt’s already laughing. What are you laughing about?
Matt: Oh, yeah. I’m just an idiot.
Steve: That’s all right. We just had a bit of a joke beforehand as we normally do and today we’ve got an absolutely fascinating one, aren’t we. We’re gonna be talking about neurophysics.
Matt: Yeah. Neurophysics and some somatopsychology and even the history of psychology as opposed to how it’s been hijacked away from what it was, which was the functioning of us in response to psychological stimulus, not just us talking about how what happened and then dealing it with our brain. Psychology used to do a lot more in regards to the soma, which is the body. So now it’s gone straight to the brain and everyone forgets about the body. So today we’re gonna talk a lot more about, instead of all head down approach to everything, we’re gonna talk about the foot up. We’re gonna talk about how our body can actually go back and communicate with our brain. How we think we can trick our brain, which we definitely can. How we think our imagination can create our reality.
Matt: We’re gonna talk about how we think we can control everything from intensity and aggression and hustling and grinding. We think we can achieve all those things. Supplementations and foods. There’s also the need for us to go back and have a good look at our body and reset, recalibrate, and get a better understanding of maybe the hand breaks that are occurring because of our posture and that sort of stuff. So we could use flash words like somatopsychology and neurophysics and tremor therapy and chaos theory.
Matt: All that stuff we’re gonna talk about but we’re gonna break it right now because I’ve actually experienced it now. So I’ve been through a week of tremor therapy at the NeuroPhysics Institute in Ken Ware. I’m gonna give you my perception of it because when you’ve been through it and you’ve experienced it, it’s a hell of a lot different than what you see on YouTube. It’s a lot different than what I thought it was gonna be like when I went there. So I really want to talk about that because there’s tricks and techniques that everyone can learn and there’s other things that you can take it to the next level if you’re really interested.
Steve: Well, it’s amazing that you said that because if you open up Gray’s Anatomy, the textbook, you say how do you move a muscle? You go, okay, right. You send an action potential down a nerve and it goes to your, in this case hand, and you clench your hand. And I’m consciously doing that. So that’s how the nervous system works. It just does that. And if I throw a pen at Vanessa there, he’ll catch it low. He’ll react in about a quarter of a second and catch the pen. And that’s how it works, isn’t it?
Matt: Yeah. So what about if I put my hand on a hotplate? If I’ve got to wait for my brain to assess the heat and then send a signal back to my hand to move it, by then I’ve cooked it. So we have, our reactions through our body are a lot faster. Do you know the numbers, Steve?
Steve: Yes I do have the numbers. A quarter of a second, or 0.25 of a second to catch a pen. But if you touch a hotplate, 0.15 of a second.
Steve: So that’s quicker than going like, that’s room temperature, but I can feel that as being coolish, that drink. So that’s gone to my brain. If I touch a hotplate my hand moves before my brain has reacted.
Steve: So what’s going on there? That’s weird, isn’t it?
Matt: So we’ve got these survival nervous systems. So basically, we can simplify this thing right down because you’re either in thrive mode or survive mode. Okay, so we have this survival innate defense mechanisms. We talk about it all the time in regards to mucosal immunity and injury and inflammation and all that sort of stuff. How we can have processes in our body that are keeping us in the adrenal mode or the stress mode or what we call the sympathetic nervous system. And that allows us to survive the day.
Matt: Long term maintenance, reproduction, repair. None of that matters. Shagging for fun and all that sort of stuff. Sleeping for recovery. That sort of stuff does not matter if you don’t survive the day. So our body has a hierarchy in the sense that our body has the ability to pick up stressors and signals that could be life threatening and react immediately without needing our brain to do it. Yet, when we go to go to the gym and when we go and do all these different things we trying to create a muscle-mind connection.
Matt: We’re trying to get our mind to create these things. Now our body’s already done it. It’s already reacted by the time our brain can come through. If there’s a stress signal, if there’s a stress stimulus coming through, if there’s a perceived stress, if there’s a ongoing underlying stress that can actually have your body change. It’ll have your whole body change including your mind. But we can trick our mind into thinking, okay now I’ve assessed this situation and it’s not stressful for me or it’s not life threatening so I can trick my brain into thinking I can do this, it’s no problem. I’m safe.
Matt: But we’ve got to understand if you don’t understand the changes that are occurring in your body when you do that then how do you know when your body is in that survive mode. A good example, the best example I can give is for me with public speaking.
Steve: Oh yes!
Matt: Because if I explain this, it might make people understand a little bit. So, I have a massive fear of public speaking. Okay, so I hate standing in front of crowds. The podcast even ill often leave one of these podcasts and I’ll be drenched with sweat, and I’ll have the tension in through the traps, I’ll have a headache, I’ll be feeling exhausted. Sometimes I don’t remember the event. A weird thing happens to me in crowds where I dissociate. So part of my sympathetic nervous system, my stress response in my body involves perspiration, shallow breathing, my traps will tense up and my shoulders will roll forward. My forehead, I’ll get a frown on my forehead. I roll onto the balls of my feet and I grab onto the ground with my toes.
Matt: I’ve learned this only because of my experience with Ken Ware where he went through and we went and reassessed by body and found out what happens to me when I’m under stress, and this is what happens. So when I go through a seminar I can trick my brain into thinking I love this, this is fun, it’s not scary, it’s actually exciting. I’m helping people. I’m not under attack. I’m there sharing information. So I can trick my brain and I can laugh and I can smile, I can have a joke.
Matt: Meanwhile, I can be fully dissociated. Meaning it feels totally like my head’s not attached, I’m floating above my body, okay? I feel massive amounts of perspiration. I do feel the shallow breathing and heart going. I’ll get flushed and that sort of stuff. This is all body stuff. Meanwhile my brain, I’m fine. But my short term memory, concentration span, close vision, all those things switch off, which is all part of my parasympathetic system. The one that does rest and digestion and meditation and that sort of stuff.
Matt: So I take over my sympathetic nervous system. Sometimes I don’t even remember the seminar. I don’t really remember doing it. I run the whole thing on gut instincts, intuition, long term memory, short term memory, concentration span, short vision. That’s why I can’t use palm pads or anything like that because my vision won’t allow it. For that’s a big stress for me, that creates another stress thinking oh I can’t remember what is was going to say next because my short term memory’s shut down.
Matt: So often these things happen in order [inaudible 00:08:11]. No one would really know I’m as anxious and nervous as I am.
Steve: Can I just pull you up on that one take, because you told me this about 15 minutes ago, and I don’t know how many seminars we’ve done together. I’ve known you for 20 years, and I was shocked that you actually have that reaction. I know I get a bit worked up, I’ve got to remember this, I’ve got to remember that. But I don’t go through what you go through. And I didn’t know you go through what you went through. It’s not obvious.
Matt: Oh, the back pain at the end of it. My lower back is killing. My traps are killing. My neck is really sore. I’m usually sweating like a pig and everyone wants to come up and have a cuddle and a photo, and I’m like, “Ah!” Getting a big anxious. But also too while I’m in that sympathetic nervous system, your body does pick up on other stressors. My brain is actually looking for the horizon and trying to find an exit. I’ve actually scanned the room, I’ve scoped the room. I’ve picked up on the vibe of different sections, which ones are threatening, which ones are happy, where’s my safe place. I’m trying to imagine what you’re gonna say next. I’m trying to predict all of these different things, and my brain’s running on that and meanwhile I’m talking and presenting a seminar and running in a survival nervous system.
Matt: Now, I’ve been doing that for years. And I thought I was getting better and better at these things because I’m finding it less stressful in my brain. But my physical manifestations haven’t changed.
Matt: And they’re probably even getting worse and worse. And anyway, so what’s interesting is I never really made these connections at all. I had no idea. Because what happens is you can trick yourself. You can trick your brain. But if you don’t understand your body and you’re not listening to your body you may have no idea that this thing’s happening. So after 20-odd years of doing this sort of thing, my brain is getting better and better at understanding it’s not stressful, it’s not life threatening. I trick myself into thinking they can take it or leave it. I’m just here offering my service. So I’ve tricked my brain into thinking I’m doing all this nice stuff. But my body has just been getting further and further out of whack.
Matt: So I had an opportunity to go see Ken at NeuroPhysics Institute of Bonogin. And what was interesting, I didn’t think, I felt bad, I kept saying no originally because what Ken normally does is he gets people out of wheelchairs. He gets quadriplegics. He gets people really bad. People with scoliosis about to get surgery-
Steve: Curvature of the spine.
Matt: And within five days, he straightens up their spine within a few days and gets some people out of wheelchairs and walking and does amazing things with rehab. I was sitting there thinking I’ve got no real problems. Even to the point that I didn’t write anything on the form when I went in. But really in my mind what I was thinking, I had a frozen shoulder. I needed a wrist reconstruction. I needed a knee reconstruction. I had massive problems with my feet. Everything was all on my left side. And then things had started migrating over to my right foot, my right elbow. And I was starting, oh man I’m actually starting to get a little bit out of whack here.
Matt: Well, I didn’t think I was that bad compared to the stuff he normally treats.
Matt: I was a bit embarrassed to even mention that they were existing. But what was interesting … So, I went in with Ken and said right let’s just go through this process then I’ll come down-
Steve: See how it goes, eh?
Matt: Yeah. It was really weird because I didn’t feel like I deserved it or something and I didn’t feel like I needed it. So it was a little bit of a shock for me to go in. But, anyway, it was war, man. It totally changed everything. Because I had no idea I knew so little about myself before that week. I thought my brain could do anything. My brain and my mind power. I could control everything. I could create everything that I needed through my own brain and that I could counsel myself or I could meditate or I could do all these different things. But what I realized is I had posture. My body had been holding these defensive postures for so long. Meaning, so what I was saying before when I do the seminars and the traps lock in and the frown, stuff like that.
Matt: So it was very simple stuff when I started with Ken. He basically told me to just sit down on this chair and close my eyes and just touch my fingers together.
Steve: Yeah. Sort of like that?
Matt: Yeah, just go through and then touch my nose and find my own nose with my finger. Touch my fingers and touch my nose. Seriously. They’re my finger, my nose, I should where the bloody hell they are. But what I could not even do. Every time I shut my eyes I’d find myself frowning and my head would change. My head would turn to the left and go down. My traps would lock in and I’d turn to that one side that my brain was dominant with.
Steve: Yes, okay.
Matt: So for the first hour or something I was sitting there. Ken was trying to teach me how to close my eyes and not frown. He’s sitting there like, “Why are you frowning? Why are you doing …” I’m like, “No, I’m thinking.” And then I found out … And I remember, too, I used to work at some other places, and when I’d be studying and people would walk past and go, “What’s the matter? What have you read?” And I’d say, “No, no. Nothing. I’m studying.” But I just realized I do everything with intensity. I do everything with a bit of angst and I do it with a certain amount of aggression.
Steve: You do it-
Matt: I meditate hard. I meditate like a beast. I could sit there and study like a crazy person with such intensity. And then I realized as I’m doing that sort of stuff and I’m sitting at the desk and while I’m frowning, the traps are coming in, I’m leaning forward, I’m on my toes, I’m digging my toes in. All of this sort of stuff day in and day out. And then on top of that when I started getting out of my comfort zone trying to start this business and things like that, there’s a lot of stress but you can’t show it. You’ve got staff. You’ve got people relying on you. You’ve got to portray a certain image of health and vitality and that sort of stuff. So a lot of that I could trick my brain into. Or I could at least trick people with photos on Instagram. You know what I mean.
Steve: You aren’t the only one to do that.
Matt: You can create an imaginary world in your own mind. And I like I say, your imagination does create your reality.
Steve: It does?
Matt: To a certain degree. But I would find myself getting further and further into these defensive survival postures. And then what I didn’t realize is when I went to the gym and that sort of stuff. Oh, man, I went to the gym because I hated myself because I ate so much or I got overweight or I spent too long in the office sitting down or I paid for a membership and I hadn’t had my chances to get there. So when I did go in and train I did that with so much intensity and so much angst and so much aggression that I was constantly hurting myself and constantly suffering from injuries. And then I’m trying to rehabilitate these injuries going through all this pain trying to get a frozen shoulder to work and all that kind of stuff.
Matt: So then I sat down with Ken and realized that even trying to push on a bench press my traps would lock in first.
Steve: Right, so-
Matt: And their the antagonist muscles. What the hell were they gonna do to help. So my posture and everything was so bad, as soon as I tried to concentrate … And I’ll tell you what was what. When you mentioned those reaction times, if we loaded up with weight and the weight would push against me I could do it no worries. But when he took all the weight off when I had no weight I could not even move certain limbs. Like my left adductor and hamstring, they’ve been passengers for years just reacting to my right side just moving. In other words I’d fall over. I couldn’t walk straight. I could not stand still. He tried to get a picture of me standing still and I was constantly moving. Because I was constantly adjusting.
Matt: My center of gravity was so far out of whack. And the more I concentrated with my brain the more clumsy I’d become. Because as soon as I did that my traps, my head moved forward like was saying, roll onto my feet. Then all the sudden I’m wobbly. Then my feet locking onto the ground, and I’ve had a lot of feet problems, you know.
Matt: So what was really interesting was over the years I looked at doing things like, lots of different forms of meditation and body work. Counseling and psychologies and that sort of stuff. I learned techniques for meditation for grounding.
Steve: Yes, yes, yes.
Matt: I’d be sitting there in the yard getting my feet into the ground imagining my energy going through my feet into the ground and grabbing hold of a bolder under the ground and driving all my energy in and finding my place on this earth and all that sort of stuff. But it was all in my brain. At no time did I ever stop and let my body go back and tell my brain what it was doing.
Steve: Amazing. And just so you know that the human body has got electricity flowing through it. And electricity, if you ever look it up, a plug in Australia there’s three and in America there’s three. So there’s two, what they call alternating currents and you’ve got the bottom one which is earth. So most electrical items, except for a simple light or something requires an earth. And that’s what you’re talking about when your grounding yourself. So that’s good. So when you’ve got electric current flowing you get electromagnetism occurring. An electric current produces a magnetism. And I believe that’s part of the treatment as well and part of the story as well, isn’t it?
Matt: Yeah. Well, this is the beautiful thing about it. Ken, who’s the founder and the expert of this, he doesn’t even bloody know, really. No one knows. We’re there doing this stuff talking about how does a flock of birds all move in unison when there is not hierarchy there. It’s just they constantly move when we’re talking about electromagnetic fields in that sense. We’re talking about all those sort of things, but Ken doesn’t have the arrogance to go through and say he understands exactly what’s happening. It’s basically just a series of observations and a technique that they’re trialing.
Matt: But I tell you what the craziest thing is, when I first started I could not touch my fingers together and I couldn’t do this. And then I shut my eyes and basically center myself and basically stop thinking and drop the frown and drop the traps and sit back and just experience what it feels like to be symmetrical and then use that as a recalibration point. And then what I found if I could drop the survival posturing and defensive posturing, get into my balanced mode where my center of gravity is balanced and I’m not driving my sympathetic nervous system by manifesting a posture of stress, all of a sudden things would start to balance.
Matt: Even simple things. Like on the first day they just got me down, we were trying to do the hamstrings and the adductor stuff. Like I said my left leg wasn’t me, it was just being a passenger. I remember doing the hamstring and he said actually that’s nice and smooth. I said, I don’t even think, I don’t feel like my left leg even touched the pads when I really think about it. And then he said, “Okay, well drive, lead with that left.” And I just could not move it. Some of the adductors, it was the only way I could work was reacting to weight or reacting to my other leg. But when isolated, nothing. I could not even find it.
Matt: And then what happened, I remember he was shaking my legs just trying to say loosen up. Like let go. Stop trying to control everything. And what happened, even the moving, shaking my legs, if he … If my brain was constantly trying to predict what pattern he was doing with my legs. And he kept changing it. He kept getting mad because, not mad, he don’t get mad he stays zen. But he was saying, “What are you doing? Just let it go. Just relax.” And I’d do it, relax for a couple of movements and then my brain would predict the pattern and then try to do it. He’s like, “No, no. Just let it go.” And it took ages for me to be able to just remember how to run and swing my legs like a kid.
Matt: But we went back to like just pretend you’re a kid on a park bench and just move your legs without a care in the world. Things like that. And I was like a robot. I was planning and strategizing a random path.
Matt: And that was all my brain. And it took me a good day for my body to actually get a word in. Nothing was going back from my body. It took that long for that to happen. And what was happening is it just, you just get stuck. That’s the only way I can describe it was I was stuck in my head. And the harder I tried … And what, I’ll never forget there was another exercise where I had to do these, just these lat pulldowns. But I had the unilateral ones so they could come down independently. So I shut my eyes and I get into my posture and I start my thing and I’m doing it. And he stopped me halfway and said, “Do you feel straight?” And he said, “Do you feel like you’re symmetrical? Do you feel like everything’s even?” And I was like, “Yeah, man. That feels pretty straight.” He’s going, “Okay, well keep your eyes closed while I straighten you.”
Matt: Man, it felt like he turned my head 45 degrees one way, my body 45 degrees another way and at least shifted my arms by about a foot different. And then I was going, “Bullshit. No way. There’s now way.” I said, “You’re just screwing with me now.” And he said, “No. Open your eyes. Have a look.” So I open my eyes, and I’m perfectly symmetrical. And then he’s going, “Okay, so close your eyes now. Imagine, feel that, sit that point.” This is you symmetrical. Now let’s go back and do it.”
Matt: Now the oddest thing about that is, it wasn’t … Seriously I was there for four days. I was pretty uncoordinated. So, in the first day I just couldn’t, my body was not an important thing in my brain. There was no signals going back. I couldn’t get it. And I’ll explain what happened through the process. But by the end of that first day I could actually, I knew what straight felt like for the first time and I knew what my survival posture was like. So I worked out what it was that happens to me that knocked me out of whack. Now-
Steve: Could I just pick, you said something before that I wanna talk about. I think this is very important.
Steve: You said you needed to move like a kid again. Now, when you’re a kid, I haven’t been a kid for a long time. But when you’re a kid and you go to school what are you told to do in class?
Matt: Sit up straight.
Steve: Sit up straight, sit still, and most kids are fidgety. They’re moving a bit erratic. Sorry, I’ve got my ring on my finger. Sorry, I didn’t bang my other ring, it was this ring, just so you know that we keep the G rating going here.
Steve: So you just move around like this, and you’re a kid in class and all of a sudden you’re told not to do that for decades. Don’t move.
Matt: Exactly. Sit up straight and sit in a certain posture. In fact, let’s hunch our shoulders over. And what about work? We’re all taught to walk with purpose and they’re never gonna leave you alone. If you look like your busy and you’re walking with purpose or you’re working with intensity people leave you alone. If you look like you’re having fun and your relaxing then people will attack you thinking, man, you’re not putting in enough effort. I grew up watching my dad come home, bring work at home, and sit at the end of the dining room table working with intensity and angst. And he had the traps, he had the frown.
Matt: We learn these sort of things. We learn these behaviors or we acquire them through schooling and different structure. And some at work. We’ve got all of these things where we’ve got to sit certain ways, do things certain ways. Present a certain posture so people know that we’re not having fun. So that we’re riding amongst it.
Steve: When I was in the college and I had staff and I made them laugh when they’re on stage. I’d think they’re bloody slackers, what … and it took me years and years to figure out that that was music to my ears.
Matt: Productivity is more important. Yeah.
Steve: It’s like-
Matt: But what about the gym? There’s so many people with the hate music going on. There’s aggression. You’ve got to listen. There’s all these noises that we’re talking about. These electromagnetic fields. That noise and these signals coming from our body, they are still bioresonant frequencies. It’s the same as music. And we can be … White noise is the worst thing apparently you can have. Because it basically just overrides everything else. And a lot of these other duff beats and that sort of stuff there’s no way that our signals can come back to our body that way because they’re still running on those same sound waves or whatever it is. You just say-
Steve: Well, it’s more than just sound waves. Sound is the movement of air particles pushed out by a speaker. The speakers if you watch them in the gym when you’re there next time, they move like that and they move air in certain frequencies that our ears perceive as music. So you’re actually physically being assaulted by the music. I understand that assault is a big word but you’re being pushed around by music.
Matt: Exactly. So, in the meantime we’ve got signals coming back from our body trying to communicate with our brain. Now what if you’re also tough? What if you’re staunch. Now you’ve got the traps going up, you’re going with intensity. What if you’re one of those people that get in all that aggression before you do power lifting? Just like, “Rah, rah, rah.” You’re trying to get every, all this intensity out. That’s activating the survival nervous system, which will create a defensive posture if you let it. So, this is a lot of the sort of stuff that I’m learning. That we need to actually be able to have tricks and techniques where our body can communicate back to our brain.
Matt: We mentioned the heat, where you put your hand on the thing, our body reacts. So when our body picks up on any sort of stress trigger, and remember the definition of stress is anything that makes a change in our body. Throughout our whole body we release chemicals. We have electrical signals, of course, that change our electromagnetic frequencies. But there’s also on a chemical basis there’s changes that happen everywhere.
Matt: I’ll never forget when I first learned about this chemical called interleukin 6, which was an immune chemical. Well, I was taught it was an immune chemical. So when I first learned about it, I was learning about mucosal immunity. And it was saying it’s part of our innate inflammatory response from our immune system. And then basically showing that when we get a trigger, whatever the trigger is we can’t afford to wait to see what it is, that interleukin 6 is released to say there’s a stress coming.
Steve: A stress coming, yeah.
Matt: And it’s an immune signal. And then I remember reading another thing one day and it said it’s released from nerves. And I went, “Oh, hang on.” And they talked about it in the brain and then acting like a neurotransmitter instantly triggering a stress reaction. And then I read another one about it coming out of the muscles when we train. And then I read another one. And basically every cell of your body in response to stress can immediately release this thing. So we can have signals of these chemicals released from all over your bloody body.
Matt: And it basically will activate a survival response.
Steve: You want a scary, there’s a scary drug coming out called tox … What is it? Tocilizumab, which is-
Matt: What? You just made that up.
Matt: Dr. Seuss.
Steve: Yeah. Tocilizumab, that’s what it’s called.
Matt: It was Dr. Seuss who invented that drug, I’m sure!
Steve: Oh, the tocilizumab, it’s an anti-interleukin 6 drug. It’s an antibody that kills interleukin 6.
Matt: Oh, it’s the truth.
Steve: It has the worst side effects.
Matt: It would!
Steve: But it’s approved for rheumatoid arthritis. So it’s antiinflammatory. So that’s the immune thing. But when you’re releasing interleukin 6 from the muscles, they’re antiinflammatory.
Matt: Is that because it comes out with other myokines?
Steve: Yeah. It is a myokine. And there’s a great paper on this. And I’ll read this because people want a bit of science.
Matt: But interleukin 6 also comes out of fat cells and contributes to insulin resistance and obesity.
Steve: Absolutely. And if mice are bred with interleukin 6 deficient receptors they also become obese. Because interleukin 6 also increases cytogenesis.
Matt: Yeah. Oh, my goodness. Yeah.
Steve: So there’s a great review paper called The Pro- and Anti-inflammatory Effects of Cytokine Interleukin 6. And you’ve got to remember that this is the body being more clever than we think we are. It kind of goes back to what you’re saying. Is interleukin 6 inflammatory or not? Yes and no. It depends where it’s released and what receptors it activates because there’s a family of interleukin 6’s. So it’s kind of like is stress good or bad? But it can be either.
Matt: And that’s the other thing, too. One of these training techniques is understanding that, assuming that nerve activation is what contributes to a lot of the lactic acid burn, a lot of your poor recovery. The doffs and dons and that sort of stuff can often be associated with you training with angst and training in a stress nervous system not training in regeneration and repair mode. This is almost, this technique that Ken does it’s almost like Tai Chi with a bit of resistance. It’s the world that’s crazy.
Matt: So the corticotropin releasing hormone is another I found interesting. Because when I was learning about nerves and stress responses. Actually when I was trying to work out, I’d sweat and get flushed and that sort of stuff, I was trying to work out ways of blocking this thing called corticotropin releasing hormone. Because it’s a stress chemical released from nerve endings that can activate histamine responses and everything as well. It then activates the ACTH for the cortisol release from the adrenals.
Steve: Adrenocorticotrophic hormone for those who wanna know.
Matt: Yeah. But it’s basically released from all these nerve endings simultaneously. So I can get a stress response. My brain can release the catacholamines to make me think and look off to the distance and all those stuff. Through my body I can get these same nerve releases that create flushing reactions, the redness, the sweating, and all those sort of things. So there’s a lot of biochemistry behind this concept that the body works without needing permission from the brain.
Steve: Well, exactly. Yes.
Matt: And that all of these things, and you can’t really separate the body and the systems. You can’t say gastroenterology and immunology and psychology is different, so-
Steve: It’s a failure to think like that. And unfortunately, well I can’t speak for you. When I was trained we did anatomy and we opened up the immune sort of page and learned about immunology and about white cells and what you. And we closed the book and we turned about the nervous system. And yet they’re so interrelated. You mentioned corticotrophin releasing hormone. There’s a family of those chemicals. And some of them are actually released in the skin and muscles. And that’s corticotrophin releasing factor. There’s many of those sort of chemicals. It’s called Urocortin II, which is a chemical that’s corticotrophin releasing factor. It’s one of those families. And see corticotrophin releasing factor we thought was just in the limbic system in the brain that stimulates, as you said, ACTH. But now we now that there’s these other families that stimulate, are in the muscles. And it has completely different effects.
Matt: A lot of us can go through that manifest these physical symptoms of anything from allergy to intolerance to recurrent injuries to frozen shoulders, just neck pain, headaches. Sort weird sort of stuff. Gut problems. Definitely digestive problems, sleep problems, sexual dysfunctions. All those sort of things. They all get switched off if you sympathetic nervous system in stuck in the on mode. In our brain we might be able to convince ourselves that something’s not life threatening. And in fact, according to Ken the people that, like the extreme surfers, extreme sports people, UFC fighters, power lifters. The people that can convince themselves, or the people that say they don’t actually feel fear, or they feel fear and do it anyway. They’re the ones that hold the most defensive postures. They’re the ones that have basically used their brain to make their body do stuff. Their body then doesn’t know what’s going on, so the body prepares for the worst. And if it doesn’t ever get a chance to stop, recalibrate; stop, collaborate, and listen; or stop in the name of love or what’s the other stop?
Steve: Uh, Don’t Stop Me Now by Queen?
Matt: No. Hammer Time.
Steve: Oh, yeah. That’s the one!
Matt: No, so if you don’t stop and actually go back and ask your body what’s going on at the moment, where are you sitting, what are you doing? And then remind your body this is where we need to be right now. You don’t need to be in survival mode. You don’t need to be in stress mode. You need to be able to relax and go through a recovery and recalibrate. Then basically you can get further and further out of balance. One thing that can do is physical injuries and all that sort of stuff. But another thing it can do is be a constant stress back to your brain.
Matt: It can be a constant stress back to your nervous system. And the sort of stress that someone might be taking supplements for or the sort of stress that someone might be getting counseling for or wanting to talk about their childhood for and all that sort of stuff. But if you don’t go back and have a look at your body, you don’t do the somatopsychic link. See we’re all psychosomatic. If we don’t go back and do somatopsychic and go back and go, “My body posture is out of whack.” Not just pain, no just injuries, but my defensive posture is stuck. Then it is constantly sending signals back to your brain just like you put your hand on a hotplate and done it.
Matt: So that same concept that, “Bang, hotplate, stress. Remove. React.” And then the brain picks that stress signal. The brain then can go, “Let’s cool. Your hand’s off now. Stop being a pussy. And move on with life.” If you don’t ever go back and say to your body, “Okay, we’re safe now.” It’s okay to say it to your brain, but if your body doesn’t actually manifest that safe posture and go back and remind the brain that, “Yes, we are safe. I’m sitting back on my heels. I’m in a vulnerable position. I’m safe. My center of gravity is even. I have no need to frown. Why the hell would I be frowning to think. And my traps can let go.”
Matt: It was so crazy the amount of, I couldn’t no hamstring exercises without my quads wanting to take over. I couldn’t do chest exercises without my traps wanting to take over. It was crazy. No wonder I had all these frozen shoulders and bad hips and stuff.
Matt: Now, when you get onto the, if you have a look at Ken’s YouTube channel and that sort of stuff.
Steve: I did. That’s fascinating.
Matt: And when you read a lot of the papers. He’s published some cool papers and they’re also very complicated. And when you get onto the web page and watch YouTube, a lot of people talk about the tremor therapy and talk about the chaos therapy and they talk about the, almost the seizures, that occur with this. I need to explain to people my perception of that. What I felt with that. Because it’s so different to what I thought it was going to be like. On the first day I’m trying to recalibrate. And I found myself … What happens, so for example, just for an example, you get onto a Pec Deck, so we’re just doing those-
Steve: We’ve seen it does that-
Matt: I’m doing it right now, Steve. Can’t you see?
Steve: I just wanted to see how much-
Matt: Ah, sheesh. It’s all about you and your muscles and your stupid eggs for breakfast. So anyway, you get onto this Pec Deck machine and close my eyes, no weight or hardly any weight and just slowly trying to bring my hands together evenly-
Steve: And this is slowly.
Matt: -So they meet in the middle with no weight and extremely slow. And as I’m going I’m trying to feel, am I even? Am I symmetrical? But what kept happening, one arm would go and the other arm would then catch up and then it would take over. So my hemisphere, the dominance in my hemispheres was chopping and changing. I would frown and focus with intensity. My head would go down to the side, so constantly trying to realign me.
Matt: Now, part of the therapy is also when you get to these sticky points, it’s just about shaking it out. So we get to a spot that we’re stuck. And then what we’re trying to do, he encourages you to shake and tremor a little. Like build a little bit of shake and a little bit of noise and that sort of stuff there and just allow the body to just be and feel and follow and send messages back to the brain saying, “Okay we’ve got a little bit of a sticky spot here” or whatever. And now with that, that’s not like an involuntary movement. You’re not going into an involuntary tremor or seizure. It’s you doing it. So you do it. You’re the one that’s shaking it. You’re the one that’s doing it.
Matt: I was waiting for a minute for these tremors to happen. I was waiting for something. It took awhile for these things to happen. So I’m waiting for my body to seizure because I was watching YouTube videos. And I was watching this sort of stuff thinking, “Oh man, these people have got full seizures.” And some people were like really full seizures.
Steve: I’ve seen ’em.
Matt: And other people just do a bit of a shake and a bit of a tremor. So basically what was happening, I was getting into those sort of situations. When he put me onto … And I was fighting it to a certain degree because I could feel these things and they would just fizzle out to nothing. I’d start shaking and go, “Oh, okay. That feels fine now.” And then I’d go back into it.
Matt: But what was an interesting process was the understanding of these tremors and this shaking. When he put me onto the leg press machine, he put me into a very vulnerable position for my hamstrings and adductors onto that, the tremoring was insane. I’m fine with weight but with no weight, trying to just have some control and have those signals going back. It started the shaking and this tremoring.
Matt: And that happens to a lot of people on leg press machine on leg days and things like that when they’re starting to lose a little bit of that control they can start to tremor. But what the difference was here. He wants you to build on that. So basically we went down onto the mat and I recreated that tremor in my legs. It was just a shaking. But the funny thing is initially it was shaking, it was like really high frequency shaking. And the weird thing is it was all over the place. It was not symmetrical. It wasn’t organized. It was just shaking. And then I felt … And he said, “Just go with it.” If you feel like you wanna shake up into your hips just make it bigger. Just keep building it. Keep growing it.”
Matt: And I was building it and I was feeling it coming into my hips, I had this really dodgy spot in the bottom just above my left hips and then I could feel my whole body started shaking and the muscles around there really started to spasm. Not like a cramp, it definitely wasn’t a cramp but it was like a shake. It was pulling me to that direction and that sort of stuff. And it went really intense and then just fizzed out.
Matt: And then on the other side of my spine, because I pretty much alternate knots on either side of my spine all the way up to my head. When I get a massage it’s painful all the way through. And it just alternates. So I’m not walking around like this all day.
Steve: You said it all balanced out.
Matt: If you think about it with your back you’ve got a ball, your head’s the weight of a bowling ball.
Matt: And if you put the bowling ball onto a broomstick or something the length of your spine and then you try to hold that down at the bottom, that’s bloody hard. So your body’s constantly adjusting to keep that center of gravity where it is. My body was full of knots. So I went around to one spot and went into a ball and then it fizzed out and then it went to the other side all the way up my spine.
Matt: What was interesting is that one arm started to tremor. I just felt that wanted to go. And then he’s saying, “Cool, just let that go.” But then he’s going, “But it’s not symmetrical. See if you can bring it over to the other side.” And I’m just waiting, like nothing’s happening. And he said, “No. You bring it. You do it. You get it.”
Steve: You bring it, yeah.
Matt: So next thing you know, my hands are shaking. So it would have looked like, if anyone filmed it, it would have looked like a tremor or a seizure or something like that. But it was just … It was me doing it. It was me amplifying it. But would happen then is no two people do it exactly the same. Everyone has a different reaction. Next thing you know these signals and these shaking and these tremoring start to become more controlled. They start to become more symmetrical. My legs were doing symmetrical things, my legs were doing that sort of stuff together. My arms started talking evenly.
Matt: Anyway, a couple of days later I go for a massage and someone runs their hands down either side of my spine, not one knot on either side, just mush both sides, and straight as. And all those knots I’ve been carrying around and getting all different types of treatment, chiropractic, massage, physio, rehabs. All these different things and none of those did anything. This in four days it was all gone.
Matt: I’ll never forget time I went there, there was a girl there that had scoliosis, the curvature of the spine-
Steve: Curvature of the spine, yeah.
Matt: I knew you were gonna say that.
Steve: Oh, yeah. Because people, you understand. Most people would know scoliosis.
Matt: She was gonna get the rods implant and she had been doing everything forever. And she went there for her last chance, whatever, we’ll just do it-
Steve: Yeah, give it a go.
Matt: Within five days perfectly straight.
Matt: He’s got most people out of wheelchairs, which are great stories, and lots of stuff as well. John McClain, I think it was. He was in a wheelchair for 25 years.
Steve: He’s a [inaudible 00:39:44] too?
Matt: Yeah. And then he ended up walking on the beach a week later and doing Iron Man triathlons a year later.
Steve: Yeah. And then he walked his daughter down the aisle, or was that someone else too?
Matt: Buggered if I know. I should read the book, I suppose. But, so basically what happened with me is I went through and I shook all this sort of stuff out, and that was the second day for me. The first day was just trying to get my brain to stop. Stop frowning every time I closed my eyes. Understand that I was crooked. The second day was my body trying to recalibrate everything. The third day when I went back in and did all those same exercises I did on the first day, man I was smooth. It was like balanced. So these aren’t things that you’re stuck with. These aren’t things that you’ve got to do months and months of rehabilitation to strengthen up the bits. It’s basically telling your body to just drop, recalibrating and understand where you are symmetrical and understanding what triggers are pulling you out-
Steve: Right. So sort of taking your brain out of the muscle connection.
Matt: Oh! And that was the hardest part for me because I was always in my brain. And like I was saying I kept frowning. And he said, “Why are frowning all the time?” I said, “No.” Man, that was intensity. But I study with intensity. I read with intensity. I think hard. I’m like a … I think aggressively. I do things, because I’m a thinker. Like if I was to be a laborer I’d probably labor with intensity.
Matt: But I think with intensity, which is a much better option than in Queensland here with the ACORN offices and everything.
Matt: So, having these signals coming back, but more importantly now I’ve learned. Because I was having dinner with my family the other day, and we’re all happy. There’s no problems. Everything’s great. And then my wife asked me why I was frowning, what’s the matter? And I said, “No, no, no. I’m good.” And then I realized I was frowning, and I was like, “Oh, shoot. I am too.” So then I stopped the frown. I realized my traps were up, dropped them and got my posture. And I realized I was thinking about work. I just started daydreaming about work and that put me into that defensive posture. But then as soon as I realized that I could go back and drop that defensive posture. I totally thought what I was thinking there. The stress wasn’t even there. I went back to living in the now without having the sympathetic nervous system activated because of my posture.
Steve: And you talk about stress, and we’ve talked a lot about it, why negative stress. Chemically, there are three chemicals that are released during stress, adrenaline/noradrenaline or epinephrine/norepinephrine depending on if you’re in America and cortisol. And the norepinephrine shuts down pretty much everything. It says, “Survive this thing.” So if you’re stressed like sitting and having dinner. You’re not digesting. Your bowels are not working. And you could just be thinking of something. It’s not like, people think stress is a thing or something. It can come from here very easily.
Matt: Oh, yeah. But even this, think about it this way then. My defensive posture was driving that stress nervous system. So you said that with our sympathetic nervous system we get the catacholamines, adrenalines and that sort of stuff. They then drive the HPA axis, which is the adrenal gland then releases the hormone cortisol. Now cortisol’s job is not to make the stress worse. Cortisol’s job is to actually go back and switch off our stress.
Matt: That’s what switches off the immune system, which could be your cause of stress. It switches off inflammation, which could be your cause of stress. It switches off the sympathetic nervous system itself. So it goes back … The fact that it’s been released through negative feedback sends a message back to your hypothalamus and pituitary saying we’ve had our stress response, let it go. Now, what if my defensive posture’s still there? So if I’m still getting signals from my body back to my brain saying, “No, this guy’s still in a defense, he’s still in survival mode. There must still be some stress.” So if cortisol’s gone back to our brain saying, “Let it go. Stop. Relax.” At the same time that the signal’s coming through going, “No, there’s stress around you should probably go. Get up and run.”
Matt: You become resistant to your cortisol. So what happens then is, the cortisol’s been released. It is capable of switching off the inflammation or suppressing the immune system. It’s capable of making body changes, switching off the thyroid. Changing your gonadal hormones, preserving fat around internal organs, and breaking down your muscles and all those things we know are bad with cortisol. Holding salt, rising blood pressure, all those sort of things. But it’s not switching off your survival nervous system because signals from your body are coming through saying, “No. You should probably go anyway.”
Steve: Yes exactly-
Matt: So what happens is, if you go through and you’re taking your Cort RX and you’re taking your magnesium and you’re doing your meditation with intensity and you’re doing all this sort of stuff, if you’re still holding a defensive posture through that whole process there’s still a signal going back, “No. Just release a bit more cortisol.”
Steve: It’s amazing, huh? Because the signal coming from the body to the brain, not the other way around. Which is what, when I was taught it was about how stress comes from here and tells your body.
Steve: You’re saying that the body can tell the brain that it’s stressed.
Steve: And that’s key because-
Matt: And it doesn’t have to be a hotplate.
Matt: It doesn’t have to be inflammation or pain specifically. It doesn’t have to be a bite or a venom or any of those sort of things that our nervous systems are designed to deal with. It could actually be your posture. It could be the way you’re locking your traps. It could be the way you sit forward. It could be the way you’re not in a centered balanced place.
Matt: Now if you’re going to see your personal trainers and expecting a certain amount of results from all your training, you need to understand your posture. You need to understand how to do it. And if your personal trainer is there motivating you and firing you up and getting you exciting and going, “Right. Now we’re gonna do really hard core weight. We’re gonna hurt you. It’s leg day. Look out it’s leg day.” If there’s all that sort of stuff happening for someone that’s not capable of understanding their posture and isolating the muscles they’re trying to work, they might be doing all these stupid exercises with intensity and aggression and doing themselves more harm than good. Manifesting a lot of survival responses. Creating a lot of injuries. Creating unnecessary pain and inflammation. All that sort of stuff manifesting in survival.
Matt: Now a personal trainer that’s in touch with their body that understands, they talk about that muscle-mind connection all the time. They know how to isolate the muscles. They know that the traps shouldn’t be involved in a chest exercise. Those sort of things. They know how to get their frame quite right. Like even simple things. Like when Ken was teaching me to do bench press, nothing was a chest exercise. Everything was a whole body exercise. Understanding that you’ve got to build that frame. You’ve got to hold that box. You’ve got to be safe. You’ve got to be secure and then push from there.
Matt: And actually a lot of it too was just in closing your eyes and understanding where you are. Now Ken’s done a lot of studies where they connect people up to ECGs and that sort of stuff and sit in another room. And when people are doing this properly he can’t tell if they’re doing the lifting phase or the lowering phase. You shouldn’t know where you are in an exercise. It should not change. There shouldn’t be a “Rah.” You know, throw things up and then drop it down. It’s all about this control. It’s supposed to be smooth transitions. We imagine that flock of birds and that sort of stuff.
Matt: The body doesn’t move rigid. The body, in nature, the body moves freely. There’s none of these rules that we’re stuck with like you’re saying with school and all that sort of stuff.
Steve: No. It’s not natural. It’s so funny, so Ken’s paper, he’s published some medical papers here. And he talks about terms that I’ve highlighted here called bio-directional. Which is what I love. It’s about, it didn’t come from here, but it can go back to there too. I love that too. It’s called the reverse transitional psychological hypothesis is what he’s called it.
Matt: Yeah. It’s a foot up.
Steve: A foot up. So, it’s funny because you’ve got to remember orthodox medicine is all about teaching the brain to teach your body to do this sort of stuff. And so it’s completely unique. He talks about tremors and chaotic behavior as a treatment.
Matt: Yeah. I tell you a lot of it started with quadriplegics.
Matt: And that same bloody Pec Deck … Now this is normal gym equipment, but he uses the synergy stuff. It’s really smooth and it’s got a lot of unilateral opportunities there. He started off with putting a quadriplegic on the Peck Deck just to do their normal rehab and noticed their legs moving.
Matt: Now Ken might tell a different version of the story, but this is my recollection of what he told me. He noticed that their legs would tremor when they were trying to use their arms. And these people say, “Oh, no. We normally medicate to stop those spasms. That’s just an electrical charge build up.” Yeah, and like I would be and most other people, “Your legs are moving! You can walk.”
Steve: Yeah. Miracle.
Matt: Yeah. Exactly. I can put you on a Pec Deck and now you’re gonna walk. And these people are going, “No, no. That’s just normal spasms. That’s weird electrical charges.”
Matt: So anyway, what he started doing was putting resistance on that to take away some of that noise and stuff. And they build up a little bit of time. And the next thing you know they could notice patterns. So they could see actual patterns. When they moved their arms their legs were moving. But then it’s always the brain saying, “Move, move.” But there’s no, that’s been severed.
Matt: So when they could go through and get the feet coming back to the brain saying, “No, we’re still here. There’s a break somewhere along the line but we’re still here.” And there’s other evidence of animals, cats and things like that that have had broken backs and worked out other ways of training neural networks around the injury and that sort of stuff. So there’s a lot about it we don’t know and when we’re not bound by rules and belief systems. It’s capable for the body to do remarkable things. And the body can then go back and explain where it’s gone wrong and what’s gone wrong and create new networks.
Steve: It’s quite incredible. When you gave me this paper this morning about what you were going to talk, I was not very familiar with how all this works and how it actually works. And I got to one of Ken’s papers, and he doesn’t how it all works, but it does work. So I love that honesty because he doesn’t make up quantum something, or. And I hear that word, oh, it’s quantum metaphysical or something like that. No, and that’s honor science.
Matt: That’s he collected so much data because he’s under so much scrutiny.
Matt: And he presented a lot these things. He goes to these international conferences and presents to these full on experts. He might get heckled out of the room by a standard PT or Physio or something like that that believes these things are not possible. But he’s not saying he knows how it works. He’s just reporting his observations. He does the gait analysis so he records all the gait analysis. We did the thermal imaging scanning as well, so he could see the red collar where my traps were working and giant blue boobs when I’m trying to do chest exercises just until the networks connect then all of a sudden the heat distributes evenly.
Matt: What are you laughing at? My big blue boobs?
Steve: Blue boobs.
Matt: That was a really funny video.
Steve: I didn’t think that would ever come out in the podcast, blue boobs, but it did, so-
Matt: No, indeed they were cold blue boobs. And I had bright red color. I looked like some super hero. It was amazing.
Steve: Oh, there you go. Hey, superman has the red capes coming out his blue-
Matt: Yeah. Pretty much that’s probably why I happened to have blue boobs. Yeah, so-
Steve: He also talks about, I love this. He says, “The slow speed’s role,” that you mentioned. He actually says it’s 2.5 cm per second or an inch a second if you’re in America. “The slow speed’s role for the central nervous system is like a good mechanic listening to an engine’s idling state. At slow speeds imbalances are detectable.” So that’s why he does the slow speed.
Matt: And little things. As we go on, for example, you just feel that one arm stopped and the other one kept going. Well you just hit a sticky spot and your body, like your body was kinked, and you get back to that spot, “Hey do that again, that was a bit weird.” You go back to it and you’re, “No, it does that weird adjustment every time.” So you go back to that spot and you just shake your body. “Okay, does it go through smooth now? Yeah it does. Okay.” Then you find another little weird spot and you shake that out. And then we moved through that. And basically you do that through the whole body and then you allow this tremor to go and try to involve the whole body to recalibrate and then out again.
Matt: And now I’ve got these … I’ll tell you some weird stuff, though, because-
Steve: I want weird stuff.
Matt: Because for me, man, it’s like it wiped my muscle memory to the point that when I left … I left the clinic, I left his clinic and I went to go to my phone to put Google Maps of where I was going, and I couldn’t remember by code. Because there’s a lot of things that my body remembers that my brain hasn’t bothered to remember like PINs and passwords, and I forgot ’em. And I’m sitting there going, I had no idea. I’m just sitting there, I don’t actually know the numbers in my password. My fingers used to know where to press but I’d actually forgotten it. I was like, “Oh, shit.” I had to actually go back and try to … I was about to say what my password was. But I had to go back and remember the code and try to put it in.
Matt: Then I went to get money out, which again is another four digit code, and I couldn’t remember that at first. I had to go back and really wrack my brain to think about what it was because my body had just decided to take onto that muscle memory. And it was … And even little things too because I was walking really badly, and like I said I couldn’t stand still. I was constantly wobbling and adjusting because of the hips and whatever, I don’t know. And that’s a cool thing we don’t even bother trying to explain. It’s just this is just a thing.
Matt: Anyway, then I had to kind of remember how to walk again. I went down to the beach, and the beach is good because it’s not, you can be barefoot and your body can be fluid. But heading down, it felt like I was seasick. You know when you’re on a boat and you get off the boat and your body’s kind of … That’s what I felt a little bit. And then I just go through and then I acquired a bit of a strut like getting a bit of rhythm back to my walking instead of that clunking, stomping thing of pain that I had.
Steve: The intensity walk.
Matt: Yeah. The intense walk with purpose so people don’t talk to you.
Steve: It’s funny, because you talk about fine muscle memory. And let’s say it’s one, two, three, four. It’d be one, two, three, four.
Matt: Shit, how’d you know my password! No.
Steve: Oh, geez. Then it’s … It’s like when I’m playing guitar, I’ve been doing it for over 30 years, and if someone said what’s an A chord? I’d just do that and I’d say that’s an A chord. I don’t think about it. I can sing, I can talk, I can do everything with it. But then someone said when you’re in the studio and say, “What’s that chord?” And you go, “Oh, that’s, oh hang on.” And you look at your hand and you’re going, “What are you doing?” You have to … I don’t know what I’m doing with my hand. It’s separate to my body. This left hand, and this one’s drumming and this one’s pushing here. And you don’t know. You go, what shape, oh that’s right, that’s it. Oh, okay.
Matt: Yeah. So you imagine someone who’s been training in the gym for years. They’ve been doing this sort of stuff. They just do the same thing. So they go in and now I’m gonna do it with intensity because I need to build more muscle, burn more fat. But their body’s not gone back reassessing and listening to what they’re doing. We become creatures of habit. And our body can be doing these things and our brain can be thinking it’s under control for this sort of stuff. Meanwhile our body’s just doing whatever the bloody hell it likes.
Matt: Now, that frozen shoulder’s totally freed up. All this pain is gone. Everything’s even, but also more importantly I know when I’m getting out of balance, I can then recalibrate. I can stop. When I go through stress now, I can’t stop stress affecting me, I can’t stop this, but at the end of it I can go back and recalibrate and make sure I’m not holding that stressful posture into my next activity. If that makes sense?
Matt: In seminars. I did that seminar the other night. I got a bit of a sweat up, I was still a little funny. I was much calmer because whenever I felt myself frowning and doing those short of things I could change my posture back. But at the end of it I just go back and redo these training techniques and reset my body. And it allowed, it takes a lot of stress of.
Steve: That’s amazing because one thing about stress is different things stress different people. I hate shopping but doing seminars, I like them. I don’t get stressed. I like it, it’s fun. I like doing them with you and we have fun doing it. But I, honestly, did not know you were that stressed.
Steve: I know you get a bit anxious like we all do. We think, “Oh, I’ve got to mention this.” And you know you’ve read a paper on it. You’ve got to talk about this and that information and whatever else. But I didn’t know it stressed you the way it did.
Matt: Yeah. That’s why the IT part of it stresses me out the most because if the laptop’s not working or something that triggers a sympathetic nerve response that amplifies where my body’s already at. It adds on top of it. But without that I can just go, gut instincts, intuition, long term memory. I don’t even care what the slides say because I’m gonna be dizzy and not reading them anyway.
Steve: Oh, okay.
Matt: So, that’s it. And I think this style of treatment too, it’s … He mainly, 80% of the work is quadriplegics and stuff like that. People that are really messed up cases. People that have been everywhere, tried everything. So, I think the people that really would benefit from it would be athletes. Ones that have convinced themselves they’re fine, but they know there’s something holding them back. Because, man, imagine the efficiency, improvement and efficiency with your power output if you’re not having antagonist muscles activated when you’re trying to push something. You don’t have the muscles that are involved in pulling holding back on your pushing. An elite athlete. But also people that override the fear. They feel the fear but do it anyway. But don’t have a way of recalibrating. Entrepreneurs, business people.
Matt: Those guys that are hustling and grinding and trying to dominate. They need to go back and recalibrate and do these sort of things and understand that their body can get so knotted and out of whack. That’s how we create little pockets of hate. Little pockets of resentment that can turn into nasty cancers and all those sort of things and major injuries. People need to go and stop, switch off, recalibrate their body. Get away from the angst, get away from the intensity. Otherwise their body is constantly stressed. Their immune system is then suppressed. Their muscles aren’t developing as well as they could be. They’re holding fats and fluids. You’re not going to achieve the most amazing things.
Steve: I know. You mention the antagonistic muscle, and if you do a biceps curl, triceps-
Matt: I knew he wanted to do his biceps, look at this!
Steve: I haven’t got a good biceps. I can’t-
Matt: You need more eggs.
Steve: I’m not gonna get up and show you my legs, that’d be worse. I’ve got no calves. The triceps is pretty much abused. I push it that way and that relaxes. But what Matt’s saying is if this is not relaxing and you’re trying to do that then it’s like driving with the hand brake on.
Matt: Yeah. Exactly.
Steve: All the time.
Matt: I’m saying if you’re a crossfitter or if you’re an elite athlete or you’re a power lifter and stuff like that, you wanna be making sure that you’re recruiting your resources properly and definitely not wasting energy on something that’s slowing you down. So that’s where this thing could benefit so many more people. Don’t … and I wasn’t going to go because I felt bad that there was people that needed it. But I’m so glad I went. But I think other people … And personal trainers out there can learn this too. This is a system. It’s not magic, it’s a system of just assessing, recalibrating, monitoring, helping people understand their body. So personal trainers can go to the NeuroPhysics Institute webpage and find out how to do different little modules of it. And it can be the simplest, you can take it to whatever level you like, I suppose.
Matt: But there’s some aspects in here that you could do and teach … it’s like, for example if I was a personal trainer looking for something to add in. You already know all these exercises. You know how to use the machines. You can go and do this and get another little trick to understand how to actually switch off the things that are holding these people back.
Matt: I know my experience in the naturopathic clinic. I spent more time looking for the hand brakes than looking for ways of making them push the throttle harder. Most people try hard, but most people are trying hard. Half the time you’re sitting there going, “Man, give yourself a break. Let’s just find some hand brakes that we can remove.” Because you’re doing all the hard work, let’s see how far you can go forward.
Steve: We’re talking about this for information. I’m not getting any commission from Ken, are you?
Matt: No. I still got the bloody treatment.
Steve: But we’re not on commission.
Matt: We’re gonna have Ken come to a summit. We’re doing a summit in October this year, 2019, for the people who might be listening to this in the future.
Steve: Where will that be? Are you gonna start promoting it yet, or?
Matt: Oh, I think it’s Gold Coast.
Steve: Gold Coast.
Matt: I don’t even know when. But anyway, it’ll be here in Gold Coast. It’ll be a nice weekend. Beautiful weather. So come up and do it. But Ken’s gonna be there. We’re gonna try and get his mate, Jeff Erickson’s got the heat signature stuff as well.
Matt: So we can actually do some proper workshops with this sort of stuff. But otherwise, you can look up Ken. But, I think everyone should do it because, and like I said it did it for one week and I’ve learned tricks for the rest of my life. So, go see him. But, there again, if I was a personal trainer and I was looking for something to add … Legally, personal trainers in Australia aren’t allowed to talk about food and nutrition anymore.
Steve: They’re not allowed to legally.
Matt: They’re not allowed to talk about supplementation. They’re not allowed to talk about this. So, they can actually add this as a skill set to them to actually help people understand their body better.
Matt: Well, I see it all … Now that I’m aware of it, I see these people in the gym, and especially the people that aren’t real confident in the gym. The new people, the people that are doing for the reasons that they think they need to punish themselves because they let themselves get out of shape. Even injuries. You know, I used to try to rehabilitate my injuries with such angst. I was like, “Get the pain, that’s good pain.” That’s crazy, huh?
Steve: [crosstalk 01:00:31] leaving the body.
Steve: Pain is weakness leaving the body. That’s a famous saying.
Matt: That is a famous saying.
Steve: Who said it?
Matt: I’m making fun now, but you just said it.
Steve: Yeah, I made it up. No, it’s someone-
Matt: Pain is resistance to change, Steve.
Steve: It is.
Matt: What’s another pain?
Matt: Anyway it doesn’t matter.
Steve: It doesn’t matter. No pain, no gain.
Matt: Well, I think … So basically there’s plenty of science in regards to the chemistry but what underlines all chemistry is physics. And there’s plenty of evidence to the physics to talk about electromagnetic fields and changes and our body working in unison and the reflexes associated with our body in regards to survival. It happening well and truly before the brain even knows that there’s a stress signal there. There’s heaps of evidence in there to show that this thing has some merit. But once you experience it.
Matt: The reason I wanted to do this podcast as well, is I didn’t want … A lot of people, I tell them to go watch his YouTube video. And they’re go, “Oh, man that’s a bit freaky for me. There’s people like having seizures and tremors and all that sort of stuff.” And I’m, “Man, it’s not like that. I said when your in amongst it you’re doing it, you’re in total control. At any moment you can stop. You can pull it out. They’re communicating with you the whole time, encouraging you where to go. And it’s not like an involuntary tremor, seizure. It kind of is but it isn’t.
Matt: It’s almost like, you know when people say they get hypnotized, they kind of, they know they’re doing it but they can’t stop themselves doing it. So with this, it’s like that. You’ve got to do it yourself, you’ve got to be cooperating with them to do it. You’ve got to be allowing yourself to be vulnerable and in your space and allow that to happen.
Matt: But it is a conscious thing that you’re doing it. It’s not like, whoa what happened, I don’t remember.
Steve: Wild stuff.
Matt: Oh, yeah man, it is. And I recommend anyone who does it go put the details somewhere.
Steve: It is somewhere.
Matt: I was looking at Vanessa and going, I know you’ll work that out. Just get your people to talk to my people.
Steve: Yes, yes. Exactly. The nice thing along the bottom there. Look, is there anything else you wanna talk about before we wrap this up, because we’re a bit over time.
Matt: Oh, stop you bitchin’ about the time.
Steve: Okay. You have any meetings to follow this-
Matt: Yeah, no. They can wait. Don’t stress me over time. See how my posture comes up, I start frowning. I roll onto the balls of my feet. I had eggs for brekkie mate.
Steve: Eggs for [inaudible 01:02:51].
Matt: What are you doing now?
Steve: Well, we’ve got some FAQs.
Matt: FAQs. Well, let’s do that.
Steve: All right. Let’s do that. Okay. This is a bit of a big one from Rogue. It says, “Hi, M, S, and J. Love the podcast and what you all share. Sorry if you receive this twice, I’m an IT idiot.” That’s what they said, I didn’t say it. “Sorry about the length, but I’ve charted as much info as possible to get the best response. I’ve battled with some issues for several years after being disillusioned with the outcome of consulting doctors and being told I should consider antidepressants. I’ve taken it upon myself to find answers. I’m a 49-year-old female with gut issues for several years. I’ve always suffered some degree of constipation most of my life, which became unbearable about five years ago.”
Steve: “After high fiber diets and dietary changes recommended by dieticians failed, I ended up trying probiotics and eventually had some success in relieving the bloating/ constipation which had become worse over the preceding two years by taking up to three capsules per day of a well-known brand. Around that time I made changes to my diet, promptly cutting breakfast cereals and subsequently decreasing dairy, which may have contributed to improvements which lasted for 18 months. Then seemed to slowly start again.”
Steve: “Around that time I suffered changes in my menstrual pattern. Mainly heavier periods with clots and shorter cycles 21 days from the varying range of 29-35 days since I’ve never used chemical contraception.” Good. “At that point I had a Mirena, which has recently been changed by GP recommendation, not personal choice.” Mirena is an IUD, intrauterine device.
Steve: “Around three to four years ago I was quite oversleeping for 10 to 11-1/2 hours, which has never really been resolved. Although, I do go through short phases of normal eight to nine hours of sleep. I’ve noticed this to be stress related. As when I have prolonged leave from work my sleep improves. I don’t physically notice feeling stress most of the time, though.”
Steve: “For the most part, I wake tired with aches and pains at any time during the day, though in recent months I’ve avoided this to maintain good sleep hygiene. I don’t drink coffee or soft drinks, and my other sleep habits are better than most people. I fall asleep easily but often stay awake for long periods before I wake in the night. I’m nearly always cold during the day. A significant stress event around three years ago, oversleeping has been an issue. Just prior, I was in peak health. Fitness was on fire. Muscular and lean and happy with my weight at 50 to 51 kilos for 159 cm. I was eating well and limiting crap foods.”
Steve: “Primarily water drinker, 2.5 to 3 liters daily and still thirsty at night and hardly ever anything else. In the past I drank milk, but I haven’t regularly done this for three years. My diet now consists of lots of salads and minimal carb foods. If I cook meat and veggies stir fry carries no rice or pasta. Since two and half years ago my weight has increased to 59 kilos. I have minimal motivation. I don’t do formal exercise but always optimizing my incidental exercise, stairs instead of lift, etc. with an occasional visit to the gym or walk/jog.”
Steve: “For most of the last 18 months I’ve focused on my mental health without chemical interventions, but I’m struggling to get on top of my tiredness, weight, and gut issues. After recently discovering ATP Science podcast, I’ve decided to do the GutRight protocol. It did not have the effects as you described. I didn’t have grains, have barely touched seeds since the last year, stopped dairy and sugar although I struggled to give up fruit but did limit these. I noticed no change, so I assume my gut may be in better health than I thought. Bowels are usually two to three.” Which are mentioned in the Bristol stool chart, I imagine.
Steve: “I have persisted with my daily GutRight dosing and the diet protocols things most of the time. I’m currently not using probiotics. Listening to other podcast episodes made me consider the possibility of my thyroid and estrogen issues. My periods almost nonexistent two and a half years ago, now becoming significant lasting 10-20 days with a 20-36 day cycle even with the Mirena. And now I suspect that given my period of prolonged stress, which now I’ve mostly dealt with, I have cortisol issues.”
Steve: “Any general bloods that I’ve done, TSH, vitamin D, fasting glucose, triglycerides all normal. With so much new information, you understand I’m having some difficulty deciding on what products would be best and how to use them. I’d be grateful for any helps or hints you can share. Thanks. Rogue.”
Steve: Wow. A big one, eh?
Matt: That’s cool. That’s a good one.
Matt: So for starters, just addressing that GutRight. You don’t … We describe some symptoms that some people experience to prepare them for a worst case scenario and that sort of stuff. But having, it’s not really, your perception of symptoms is not really an indication of what’s going on in your gut as such. I know that people have an exaggerated Herxheimer reaction if they’ve got an overgrowth and a massive die off in a specific species. But the GutRight can still improve diversity without creating a whole heap of-
Matt: Reactions and that sort of stuff. You’ve had, you’re pretty blood close there towards the end there. So you’ve mentioned here that you get periods for 10-20 days and your cycle’s only 20-30 days, which is an indication of an estrogen dominance and progesterone deficiency. And what can happen, so if you were to make that period and make that blood that’s all estrogen. It’s then supposed to be detoxified and cleared via the bowel. And then what can happen is you can recycle that estrogen and it pumps it back in. A thing called estrobolome, which means that we’re dominant in firmicutes and Candidas.
Matt: Those things both contribute to obesity and they both contribute to a sluggish thyroid and they both contribute to an estrogen dominance. So you’re on the right track there. There’s obvious signs of estrogen dominance but with a progesterone deficiency we use the Alpha Venus. So do the Alpha Venus at four every morning, and this is gonna sound a bit weird. Normally what I would do is I’d, for your adrenals and for this cortisol … With that cortisol we go through multiple stages. But about stage 4 I would say is basically where your adrenals are in a phase of conservation. And in a phase of conservation, you never get enough cortisol during the day to help you deal with stress, inflammation and pain, but you’re left with this annoying trickle of cortisol at night that stops you from going into a deep refreshing sleep. So then you sleep longer and you also have too much cortisol there, which is stopping you if you wake up through the night, you can hardly get back to sleep.
Matt: One of the things that people do is they use a product called Cort RX at two before bed to try to force themselves into having a better quality sleep. You drop that cortisol at night and it will pick up in the morning.
Matt: But in your case because of the estrogen dominant stuff, I would actually use Alpha Prime. So, this is a little bit tricky because what I would be doing in your case is I would be using four Alpha Venus in the morning and I would use two Alpha Prime at night. And that Alpha Prime at night should put you into a deep sleep. Both of those things are going to help detoxify the estrogen, and the Venus is going to help build up the progesterone. Technically, if we get that cortisol under control by dropping to off at night. We get that estrogen under control. If there’s any thyroid issues it should fix itself. So I don’t see any real need to add in the T432 or anything like that.
Matt: The cool thing is in the Alpha Venus and the Prime. They’re both about the same ingredients that’s in the GutRight that we use for the estrogen detoxification. So, I’d continue on the GutRight at one teaspoon a day.
Matt: And then we’ll throw in the Alpha Venus and the Alpha Prime. It should fix up those hormones and starve the bugs that are feeding on the estrogens, which is typically Candida, which might even be associated with thrush or other bloating and fullness. Another interesting pattern, I’m glad you worked out the constipation too. Too much fiber is one of the main causes of constipation, and antidepressants as well. There’s a mention of an antidepressant. The side effect of that is constipation. But too much fiber creates dryness and hard stools. So the cereals combined with other fiber supplements means that you just can’t get enough water into the stools and you get dry hard poop. You take out some of the fiber and it can work again.
Matt: That make sense?
Steve: Yeah. I just wanna ask you one question. Multi Food for this to help with the detoxification of the estrogens?
Matt: Well, the funny thing is in the Venus and Prime you’ve got the folate, so you don’t really need it.
Steve: Okay, good.
Matt: So, the GutRight, the Venus and Prime.
Steve: That’s a great thing.
Matt: Oh, thanks Steve.
Steve: Also, I love the Prime with the reduced cortisol at night.
Matt: Yeah. Not many people know that. Have you noticed, too, a lot of people when you prescribe them melatonin they have these deeper sleeps but wake up real early.
Matt: All shite and briny ready to go.
Steve: All shite and briny?
Matt: Yeah. That’s how we do it in Australia.
Steve: I think we have time for one more from [inaudible 01:12:04].
Matt: Bring it on.
Steve: Okay. “Hi, Matt, Jeff, and Steve. Let me start by saying how much respect I have for each of you, Matt, Jeff, and Steve.” Well, that’s a good start, isn’t it.
Matt: That is a good start. We respect you too, Carly.
Steve: “And what you bring to the table. Your podcasts have resonated with me and listening to them has helped me gain so much important knowledge. In May last year I hit the wall, burnout. I went from being quite a sociable, hardworking, multitasker to not being able to leave my house without Valium.” Valium is a benzodiazepine anti-stress drug.
Steve: “It was a dark month or so but one that I was able to pull out of and due to turning my health around.” Oh, that’s great. “Your podcasts were a huge part of the learning I gained in gut health and exercise science. Today I am 15 kg lighter and 1000% happier and energized. I went mostly vegan and concentrating in a diversity of plants and fermented foods. I have started blogging my health journey and plan to promote the amazing wealth of knowledge you guys have to share.” Thanks for that.
Steve: “But really this email is about my son. He’s been away at college and I haven’t been able to affect his diet in any way. You know what college boys’ diets can be like when they’re providing for themselves. The reason I shared a little of my journey is when I look back on my dark days, I must admit I don’t think it was caused necessarily by emotional load or circumstance as much as my physical health leading to poor mental health, which I know is something I have heard you guys talk so much about. So, I’m hoping you can steer us in the right direction to help my 19-year-old son improve his quality of life.”
Steve: “He’s 70 kilos and 178 cm, wishes he could put weight on more easily. He looks fit and healthy and eats well when he is at home. He has been known to pig out on junk food. For a couple of years he has struggled with insomnia and anxiety. At the end of last year particularly bad when he came home for the summer, although I was quite drained. He’s still in JP and done what he can to aid his sleep. He struggles with falling asleep and staying asleep.”
Steve: “Recently his doctor suggested an app called Pillow, which tracks his sleep. It has been quite shocking to see that he’s waking up about eight times a night and equates it to being awake for up to 20% of his [inaudible 01:14:25] sleep time. Our strategy is trying a meditation app that will help you fall asleep and it’s been great for helping him that way. He purchased the blue light reflective glasses at night for when he’s on screens. He is trying not to use his bed for anything but sleep, i.e. no phone or reading in bed. Yada, yada, yada. But it hasn’t been helping him stay asleep or get a good night’s sleep.”
Steve: “Another issue is that he closes his eyes to try to sleep and it’s like he has this undeniable urge to open them again. Finally, a few weeks ago I was shocked to find out when I saw his eyes in the sunlight that they were very jaundiced.” That means yellow in the white part. “He has been lethargic and has lost his appetite in the week prior and was only able to eat half of any food for a meal. The GP ran some blood and sent him away for an ultrasound. Nothing really showed up except to say he had elevated bilirubin levels.” That’s a liver enzyme, liver stuff.
Steve: “He has been sent for an MRI, but hasn’t got it yet. The GP said he may have Gilbert Syndrome, where he’ll naturally have higher bilirubin levels than the general population but that a virus may have sparked his most recent jaundice. He is a high achiever when he puts his mind to it. But anxiety finds him backing away from opportunities. Sometimes it can be quite debilitating. I would love to hear your perspective on his possible health issues and potential fixes. I was thinking Cort RX would be a great product for him, but what days would you suggest for his situation.”
Steve: “Thanks again for your help you have been to others. I pray that you will be able to shed some light on this problem from my son. Kind regards. Carly.”
Steve: Here you go.
Matt: That’s cool, man. So yeah. Viruses and other triggers can add burden onto the liver and weaken it. But basically bilirubin is the yellow bit that makes your poo brown, and if it goes backwards it can make your skin yellow and your eyes yellow and that sort of stuff. So, basically what happens is the liver can change in response to stress. Like I said before it doesn’t matter what the stress is your liver will change. Certain phases speed up and other phases can’t keep up. It’s designed to handle poisons and venoms and life threatening stresses and that sort of stuff. So when a virus comes in basically the attack and the inflammation can mess up the pathways where you make bilirubin and you can’t process and get rid of, and it can backlog and make you yellow.
Matt: The key is to actually slow down, go back in and slow down the phase 1 detoxification pathways and support the phase 2 detoxification pathways. Phase 1 detox is designed to handle viruses and all those other poisons. So we slow that down with a lot of [inaudible 01:17:06] antioxidants. Things like turmeric, frankincense, schisandra berries that sort of stuff. So Cort RX has got the turmeric and the schisandra. So it by itself would do it. And in this instance, it’s hard to know whether to do it during the day or at night. So during the day if he’s anxious, maybe he’s manifesting the symptoms of an overactive adrenal, so wiry and panic that sort of stuff. Holding a bit of salt, holding fluids. Running with adrenaline and panic, all that sort of stuff. Really anxious and nervous about the study, that sort of stuff. Then I would use the Cort RX through the day to keep the adrenals low so that way he can switch off at night.
Matt: If he’s actually quite flat where he’s got to the point where the tireder he’s got during the day the harder it is to get a good night’s sleep, that he’s constantly thirsty. When he drinks he needs to wee. Sensitive to glare, noise that sort of stuff. Then I would use the Cort RX before bed. Or you might just want to do a bit of trial and error rather than ask all those questions. So you could try a couple of Cort RX at night. If that doesn’t put you into a nice deep refreshing sleep then do one Cort RX three times a day instead.
Matt: The other product that we have that’s really good at helping to reboot the liver and protect the liver is Resilience. And the cool thing is it’s got a lot of antiviral properties. Very powerful at controlling the changes that have occurred to the immune system and livers. Livers after post viral so you don’t get into things like post viral fatigue. All these inflammations and immune activity can create the insulin resistance with failure to thrive and all that sort of stuff. Of course the changes in the liver will affect the digestion. Especially fatty foods because you’re not making good quality bile to break down the fatty foods.
Matt: I tell you the one thing that I would be giving to a kid that’s left home, and I’ll be making my boys do it whether they bloody like it or not, if they do it, is GutRight. So you’ve got to understand what GutRight is. It’s actually a combination of skins and peels and seeds and all the active components of fruits and vegetables that he may not be eating. Now they are very important at slowing down phase 1 detox and aiding phase 2 conjugation reactions to make sure we’re capable of clearing away the toxins. Capable of making quality bile. So if you could get in the GutRight and the Cort RX alone and the Resilience if your lucky, I’d definitely do that.
Matt: The only other thing, then, this is where it gets tricky. I would have to put in Multi Food, because if there’s basic nutrient deficiencies, he’s not gonna be capable of running these pathways. So, the Multi Food and the GutRight. I’m a bit tired of the [inaudible 01:19:31] and I understand you don’t want to take too many things, but Multi Food, GutRight, Resilience, and Cort RX is what I would give. And what I’d probably only do one bottle of Resilience just to rebalance the immune system after the viral sort of stuff. Stick with the Cort RX managing the sleep and the stress situations. But get onto that GutRight and Multi Food to compensate for being a Uni student. Because if he’s anything like me, it’s just bread and milk. Man, I studies naturopath too. I put on so much. I was 140 kilos or something by the time I finished my internship.
Steve: How much are you now, if you don’t telling.
Matt: About 110 or 115 or something. It depends on, well I haven’t weighed myself since we went to America.
Steve: Ooh. America was a-
Matt: I’m waiting to get back down-
Steve: Yeah America was, I think it was a kilo and a half trip for me.
Steve: And it was only six days. How does that work? It’s a miracle.
Matt: It is a miracle.
Steve: I was still trying training with Mick when I was there.
Matt: Oh, that’ll do it. You probably put on muscle. Train with Mick for a week and you’re probably buff.
Steve: We went to the gym. I don’t know where you were at that morning.
Matt: Not at the gym. Last time I went to the gym with Mick, I made him go out and get my car and back it up to the bottom of the stairs so I could fall into the back of my Ute because I couldn’t walk. My legs were like mush.
Steve: Oh! But he was actually supporting what you were doing with Ken. He was focusing on the muscle a bit. But Ken does it in a unique way. But there’s a little bit of similarities between them. Micks a good training.
Matt: Oh, yeah. Well the funny thing is, with that thing any people when you really see these great trainers and that. The people that can achieve those muscle-mind connections in those sort of people, they do it and they know what muscles to regroup. They know when they’re doing a bench press to build a box in a frame in their back. Like on the bench press they’re focusing on building a solid frame in their back to push from and recruit these weird muscles. My voice just stopped. Anyway.
Steve: Well, that’s awesome. Well, this has been great fun. We’ve just got a review to read out actually.
Matt: Well, blood hell. It’s still going.
Steve: Still going, sorry. But the reason I wanna read-
Matt: Poor people on the treadmill, “Just finish it.”
Steve: “Come on, hurry up.”
Matt: “Hurry up with that review. Stop interrupting, man.”
Steve: We’re getting you fitter while as we delay-
Matt: Stop delaying Steve. Hurry up just read it. Come on mate, they’re all waiting.
Steve: It says, “Amazing stuff these podcasts.” So I have to read that one now. It says, and this is from BLT.AU, so there you go. Interesting. “The amount of stuff I’ve learned over the past six months binge listening to the guys is unrivaled. The results I’ve seen in myself by adhering to the information provided and the guidance of another naturopath is awesome.” All naturopaths are awesome. “Having energy through the day, better recovery and of course the increase in strength. The only downside is that everyone I talk to I talk their ears off with this info.”
Matt: That’s awesome. That’s cool.
Steve: That’s a great one. I love that one. Thank you BLT. That is awesome. We have really run out of time now.
Matt: Oh, stop worrying about the time, Steve.
Steve: Well, they’re on the treadmill, they’re on the treadmill. They’re sweatin’. This has been fun. This has been an eyeopener for me.
Matt: Stop waffling, man. Just say good-bye.
Steve: I know. I’m just summarizing. Geez. I’m just summarizing. This has been an awesome podcast. I’ve enjoyed it. Thanks for listening everybody and watching, if you’re watching. But, Matt, it’s been awesome. Thanks for picking this one.
Matt: Thanks Steve. All right, no that’s fine.
Steve: See you later guys.
Announcer: Thanks for listening. And remember, question everything. Well, except what we say.