Skip to main content

Episode 201 – Reckless Weightloss


In this Episode of the ATP Project, Jeff and Steve chat about how to burn fat rapidly, the Botched fads of the weight loss industry, prescription drugs, illegal drugs that are supposed to give you that edge in burning fat, liposuction, gastric sleeving, all the things that will get that fat off quickly effectively but can also be potentially dangerous too. Some things are not always a quick fix.

Podcast Index –

00:01:24 – Podcast Start
00:04:25 – DMP (Dinitrophenol)
00:07:50 – What is DMP
00:08:45 – Uncoupling proteins
00:10:24 – DMP dosage
00:12:05 – DMP side effects
00:17:40 – Natural ways to replicated DMP
00:18:12 – uncoupling protein 1 (brown v white fat)
00:21:33 – clenbuterol
00:22:03 – clenbuterol – how it works
00:22:49 – clenbuterol inhibits enzymes that break down muscle tissue
00:23:53 – clenbuterol negative effects
00:27:40 – Blood doping
00:29:28 – Clenbuterol natural alternatives
00:30:48 – phentermine/duromine legal prescriptions
00:31:16 – fenfen – Fenfluramine/phentermine
00:31:51 – fenfen side effects
00:34:30 – negative feedback loops
00:38:21 – Duromine natural alternatives
00:40:12 – Xenical and chitosan
00:41:15 – chitosan side effects
00:44:47 – Jeff ate lentils
00:45:54 – Jeff’s phobia of public toilets
00:47:15 – Liposuction (history)
00:49:06 – Liposuction – modern day practices
00:49:53 – Liposuction – Side Effects and long term
00:55:18 – Gastric sleeving
00:57:52 – Gastric sleeving BDMI
00:59:04 – sarcopenia
01:02:29 – Gastric sleeving negative side effects
01:09:21 – iTunes Review
01:10:42 – FAQ 01
01:17:49 – FAQ 02


Jeff:                                       Welcome to the ATP Project, you’re with your hosts Steve and Jeff today. Matt is on a wonderful holiday. We’re gonna talk about where he is today.

Now, today, we’re going to be talking about cheating, yes, cheating. Well, not really cheating. We’re gonna be talking about how to burn fat rapidly. We’re gonna be talking about some of those prescription drugs, some of those illegal drugs that will give you that edge in burning fat. We gonna to talk about liposuction.

We gonna talk about all those things. Anything apart from diet and exercise, to help you lose weight. We gonna talk about gastric sleeving, all these sorts of things that will get the fat off quickly and effectively, and potentially dangerously. So, it’s an interesting podcast, so enjoy.

Speaker one:                     As always, this information is not designed to diagnose, treat, prevent or cure any condition, and is for information purposes only. Please discuss any information in this podcast with your healthcare professional before making any changes to your current lifestyle.

Stay tuned, the ATP Project is about to start.

Speaker 2:                           Welcome to the ATP Project, delivering the irreverent truth about health, aging, performance and looking good.

If you’re sick and tired of being sick and tired, ready to perform at your best, or somewhere in between, then sit back, relax, and open your mind, as Jeff and Matt battle the status quo, and discuss everything health related that can make you better.

Jeff:                                       Welcome to the ATP Project, here with your hosts Steve and Jeff. Good day, mate.

Steve:                                   How are you, man?

Jeff:                                       Good, buddy good.

Steve:                                   It’s just us again.

Jeff:                                       Just us. Matt’s away at the moment, with Ken Ware, actually going through a week worth of training, or modules or what have you on the Chaos Theory that Ken talks about. Now, anyone who hasn’t listened to the podcast before, you’re not sure who Ken Ware is, check out our podcast with him. I can’t remember what number it was, but Ken Ware is on Chaos Theory, was done a couple with him. Absolutely amazing guy.

Steve:                                   It is amazing.

Jeff:                                       Cut long story short, he’s basically found, utilizing Chaos Theory, that he can get paraplegics to walk again including, and I know that sounds pretty extreme, he’s actually featured on 60 Minutes here in Australia. I think it was Maclean was his last name.

Steve:                                   Hh-mm-hmm (affirmative), yeah.

Jeff:                                       He was a paraplegic for 25 years, who after working with Ken was able to actually get control over his legs again and actually ran and competed in I think a half Ironman.

Steve:                                   Yeah, rest assured [inaudible 00:02:20]

Jeff:                                       And he’s working with the Manchester bombing victims. I think he’s working with some other people. Actually I don’t know what I can and can’t share, but Matt was down there, and he’s seen a lot of, if I mentioned them you’d probably know who they are, or have heard about them, not potentially celebrities, but you would have heard about them on the news with all sorts of various accidents. And he’s helping some of these people, and Matt’s going through this at the moment, getting absolutely unbelievable breakthroughs.

Steve:                                   Yeah.

Jeff:                                       So we’re gonna do a podcast actually on his results with it and anybody with injuries and anybody with things that just won’t budge in their body. That’s one to stay tuned for Matt, Steve because Matt’s saying he has discovered things about himself that he never even would have known.

Steve:                                   It’s amazing and the amazing thing about this I saw a video of someone he got to walk again after being a paraplegic and he walked his daughter down the aisle or-

Jeff:                                       Yeah.

Steve:                                   Something on the beach and that was a video so we can share that.

Jeff:                                       The one that amazed me and again we spoke about the podcast was the person that I met whose daughter was there after five days she was about to get rods implanted in to her back because, she has extreme scoliosis, within five days her spine was completely-

Steve:                                   Straight.

Jeff:                                       Completely straight.

Steve:                                   Scoliosis is a curvature of the spine for those of you.

Jeff:                                       A miracle man outside of conventional understood science and this is the thing Steve it’s like, you gotta push the boundaries.

Steve:                                   Yes.

Jeff:                                       You know and you gotta question everything and this is one of our motto’s, “question everything” because you know standard science, or what we understand, as soon as again and I always worry when, oh the science is settled.

Steve:                                   Oh.

Jeff:                                       Bull, you know as far as your understanding is concerned, is we’ve said before, you know the earth was the center of the universe and it was flat.

Steve:                                   Yes.

Jeff:                                       And that’s trying to make a come back but.

Steve:                                   Yes it is.

Jeff:                                       Don’t and this is the whole thing about it. Is that, Ken is a pioneer in this movement, and he’s getting some undeniable results so. Anyway enough about that but we’re talking about extreme fat loss.

Steve:                                   Yes this is great.

Jeff:                                       Now this came about with Nick.

Steve:                                   Yes.

Jeff:                                       One of our reps whose actually just left us, he’s over in the States now looking after our U.S. accounts and he said, “Hey guys, have heard of?

Steve:                                   Oh, DNP.

Jeff:                                       DNP.

Steve:                                   Dinitrophenol-

Jeff:                                       Yeah.

Steve:                                   … is the chemical name, but yeah.

Jeff:                                       And so Steve you know we’re talking so Matt’s away so we can have a bit of a play.

Steve:                                   Yes it is a bit of a play.

Jeff:                                       And we wanna talk about various methods that people use for extreme, and I shouldn’t say fat loss, I mean some of it is the DNP is definitely targeted fat loss, but we can say weight loss.

Steve:                                   Yeah.

Jeff:                                       And some of the extreme measures that people will go to, to lose weight and we’ve mentioned some of these things before but we gonna pull it all together into one podcast and talk about the good, the bad and the ugly.

Steve:                                   Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jeff:                                       But that’s, and Steve you fill in some of the blanks here, but we’re gonna talk about DNP which I believe originally was used as an insecticide.

Steve:                                   In timber yes.

Jeff:                                       That people use to, actually super heats the body so that you can basically burn more calories.

Steve:                                   Burn more calories yes.

Jeff:                                       Sounds like a good thing.

Steve:                                   Without doing exercise.

Jeff:                                       We’ll get into that.

Steve:                                   Oo yeah.

Jeff:                                       I wanted to talk about some of the stuff I’d heard about people actually ingesting bacteria-

Steve:                                   Bacteria.

Jeff:                                       … and other things to have rapid weight loss.

Steve:                                   Yes.

Jeff:                                       Through gastroenteritis and other things like that. Is that right?

Steve:                                   Yeah absolutely yeah.

Jeff:                                       Right okay, which just sounds alarming but these things are true. We gonna talk about Lap Band, we’re gonna talk about liposuction, we gonna talk about diuretics.

Steve:                                   Yes.

Jeff:                                       We gonna talk about Duro mine.

Steve:                                   Yes.

Jeff:                                       We gonna talk about, what else Steve?

Steve:                                   Clenbuterol.

Jeff:                                       Clenbuterol, which and again we’ve mentioned, that one that’s the horse steroid that’s used as a bronchial dilator, which a lot of people use off script.

Steve:                                   Yes.

Jeff:                                       And again look, the thing is, is that a lot of people have used some of these things and got results without killing themselves. A lot of them have used it and killed themselves.

Steve:                                   Yes or done serious.

Jeff:                                       Or done serious damage and we’re not advocating any of these methods.

Steve:                                   Oh no.

Jeff:                                       But we just wanna inform you what a lot of people are doing now. Some of the people that are listening to this podcast Steve, are just gonna listen to it for pure entertainment. ‘Cause it’s pretty fascinating.

Steve:                                   It’s a little bit entertaining at times, a litte bit sad, and other times.

Jeff:                                       A little bit.

Steve:                                   You got some good stories, you got some bad stories. But the important thing about this, this is how, the reason why we doing this is ’cause people are actually doing this.

Jeff:                                       Well no, no and I was about to say.

Steve:                                   Yeah.

Jeff:                                       Then you’ve got the other end of scale and some of the people who a bit more educated they’re aware of the risks and they’re doing it, and I don’t have a problem with that Steve, so much to so as they’re aware of the risks. But like that interview that we did with Annemarie as well too, because I’m not a advocate for or against.

Some of these things I’m definitely against, because there’s absolutely no good signs.

Steve:                                   Yeah.

Jeff:                                       You know effectively you’re basically playing Russian Roulette with your health.

Steve:                                   Yeah.

Jeff:                                       But some of these people might be using some of these things, and this is really probably a crux of it for some of the things like DNP, is if people are using it because they’ve had friend that’s used it, that’s got good results. You need to be aware of the downside, so you don’t hurt yourself.

Steve:                                   Exactly.

Jeff:                                       You know again we’re not here say, stop it completely, but just, you make up your own mind once you’re aware of all of the facts.

Steve:                                   Yeah look, I mean what we’re not gonna talk about today is diet and exercise, and that the elephant in the room that we should be focusing on, but this is the stuff that’s beyond that, this is for people who do it without that, who you know and some of those things like Drew mildly spoke about is a very commonly prescribed drug in Australia, around the world for people to lose extra weight.

Jeff:                                       Yeah.

Steve:                                   We gonna talk about Xenical today, which is another drug. Yeah.

Jeff:                                       And we’ve mentioned that before as I said a friend of mine, you know adult diapers get your adult diapers out.

Steve:                                   Yeah there’s some problems with that.

Jeff:                                       Leaky bumhole syndrome if you eat too much fat but.

Steve:                                   I think the medical term is anal seepage.

Jeff:                                       Yip.

Steve:                                   I don’t know if that makes it any better, probably worse?

Jeff:                                       Yeah, well it doesn’t really sound great does it?

Steve:                                   I’ve got a list of the side effects here that gets even worse than that actually. You wouldn’t believe it.

Jeff:                                       Well Stevo, look where are we gonna start? Are we gonna start on DNP?

Steve:                                   We’re gonna start on DNP.

Jeff:                                       Okay, DNP. Give us the run down Steve.

Steve:                                   Right.

Jeff:                                       What does, where did it come from, who uses it?

Steve:                                   It is a pesticide and when pests ingest it, it causes them to become hyperthermic, in other words, overheat and die.

Jeff:                                       Right.

Steve:                                   Okay.

Jeff:                                       Is it still used today?

Steve:                                   No, no it’s banned. It was banned in 1938.

Jeff:                                       Wow.

Steve:                                   But before that it was prescribed by medical doctors for people to lose weight.

Jeff:                                       Really?

Steve:                                   Yeah really.

Jeff:                                       In the 1920’s and 30’s?

Steve:                                   In the 30’s absolutely.

Jeff:                                       Wow.

Steve:                                   Because one thing about it, is it really really works. It is quote, “the magic pill.” Forget okay, you could die, but apart from the death and side effects it really helps you burn fat without exercise.

Jeff:                                       I know of some people going, you know what that is a risk that I’m prepared to take. But all jokes aside I mean Steve you know obviously the risk of death here is pretty bad. I’ve heard that people when they take it, become so super-heated, that’s how it kills you. Is that correct?

Steve:                                   Yes correct.

Jeff:                                       It basically cooks you from the inside.

Steve:                                   It does cook you to death, it raises heat in the body and it does it via a mechanism through these proteins that we have, and there are five different types of them. And they’re called uncoupling proteins.

Jeff:                                       Wow, even I know about that Steve.

Steve:                                   Yes.

Jeff:                                       That is the magic, that’s what you want to you know burn body fat [crosstalk 00:08:52].

Steve:                                   Exactly and what happens is if you imagine the mitochondria where you make all your energy, when a proton or a H+ iron goes in there, it makes ATP okay energy. And that’s good, but there’s another little pathway called uncoupling protein, it’s only discovered in the late 70’s, where they let protons in there and the side effect of letting the protein in, is you generate a massive amount of heat. Without producing energy.

Jeff:                                       So thermogenesis?

Steve:                                   Thermogenesis, so it’s very similar to driving down the highway with your handbrake on and driving. You’ll burn more fuel, you’ll create more heat in the engine.

Jeff:                                       Yeah.

Steve:                                   And that exactly what happens.

Jeff:                                       Right.

Steve:                                   It’s an uncoupling protein and uncouples the mitochondrial electron transfer chain. So you get a burning of heat, and then you know obviously buy driving down the highway you burn more fuel, and a lot of people wanna burn more fuel.

Jeff:                                       So how do you do that naturally without using drugs?

Steve:                                   You can exercise?

Jeff:                                       Yip.

Steve:                                   Or you can go on Ketogenic diet.

Jeff:                                       Yip.

Steve:                                   Or you can take supplements like Conjugated Linoleic Acid.

Jeff:                                       That also all helps with that?

Steve:                                   Absolutely CLA is the most important one it, it’s why Amp-V and that works out well for fat loss. One of the reasons, there’s a few others.

Jeff:                                       Yeah, but it won’t kill you, and obviously I’ve mentioned that the difference between using say CLA.

Steve:                                   Yeah.

Jeff:                                       To using something like the DNP, is probably a magnitude of many many types.

Steve:                                   A lot, a lot this one is vastly more effective at doing that. When I say affective there’s massive side effects but.

Jeff:                                       Let’s talk about the good stuff first, and then we’ll get into the bad stuff.

Steve:                                   Sure.

Jeff:                                       So is there any other good stuff about it? I mean has it been any reports of exactly you know how much weight an average person could, is there any statistical information you can check?

Steve:                                   There is, basically DNP works if you just take a moderate doze which is a 100mg.

Jeff:                                       Right.

Steve:                                   It increases your Basal Metabolic Rate by 11 percent. Now you might think oh 11 percent, but if you think of your calorie intake per day is say 2000.

Jeff:                                       2000 yip.

Steve:                                   Then you’re gonna burn an extra 200 plus calories, for doing absolutely nothing.

Jeff:                                       Yeah right.

Steve:                                   And, and that’s a low dose.

Jeff:                                       How many calories in a kilo of fat?

Steve:                                   A kilo, well a gram of fat has nine calories.

Jeff:                                       Yip.

Steve:                                   So if you, you know you can add it up from there so let’s round it off to 10.

Jeff:                                       Yip.

Steve:                                   Then you can burn 20 grams of fat and that’s just straight off the top of it, and then if you multiply those hours you can take up to well 17 kilos, we’ll get to a story about that. But you take them multiple times a day.

Jeff:                                       Yeah.

Steve:                                   So you’re actually multiply the effects.

Jeff:                                       It’s about 9000 calories and a kilo of fat.

Steve:                                   Yeah.

Jeff:                                       So therefore if you’re getting 200 calories extra, you know burned.

Steve:                                   Burned.

Jeff:                                       So.

Steve:                                   It’s some of it.

Jeff:                                       Yeah.

Steve:                                   But it also burns other things too in the body, not just fat. It burns everything so it’s highly, and you have to do it every day and it works through the night.

Jeff:                                       Right.

Steve:                                   So you’re burning fat pretty much all the day. So the Basal Metabolic Rate goes up, but then that’s only part of the story ’cause uncoupling protein is actually just the generation of heat without burning any. So, most of your fat loss comes just by uncoupling the proteins, which allows the protons to leak into the mitochondria and then you get these massive increase in heat. So you get a thermo genic effects without increasing your Basal Metabolic Rate. So you just overheat and of course the side effect of that is you over heat and die. But, if you can get yourself to a temperature of about 39 and you induce like a fever affect, you’ll burn an extraordinary amount of fat over a few weeks.

Jeff:                                       Wow.

Steve:                                   It works dramatically. It was over the counter, it was sold over the counter in 1933. You get it from a pharmacy.

Jeff:                                       And why did they stop selling it Steve?

Steve:                                   Well you can guess?

Jeff:                                       Deaths?

Steve:                                   Ah yeah, a few deaths because it was found not fit for human consumption by the Federal FDA basically in 1938, and basically therefore it was taken off the shelves then, that was the side effect of that. But there is good news, for those who want to get it. It was marketed as Mitekel in 1981 in a private practice in America.

Jeff:                                       How on earth can it be banned in the 1930’s, but yet make a revival in the 1980’s?

Steve:                                   ‘Cause a doctor did it illegally and he ended up in jail.

Jeff:                                       Ah.

Steve:                                   But, but he got remarkable results for that, which opened up that argument again about okay. ‘Cause if it was banned in 1938, records weren’t  very good back then.

Jeff:                                       Sure.

Steve:                                   But because this doctor was prescribing it in the 80’s and got these remarkable weight loss, it is a magic pill.

Jeff:                                       Yeah.

Steve:                                   You know with side effects, but there’s, it’s a magic pill for weight loss. So, he used it and got all these remarkable results, had thousands of clients, because he was dosing it out.

Jeff:                                       Yeah.

Steve:                                   Had minimal side effects but when he was busted.

Jeff:                                       Yeah.

Steve:                                   You know he was.

Jeff:                                       Oh, that was, he was shutdown.

Steve:                                   He was in trouble, so.

Jeff:                                       It’s a shame in a way. I mean Steve is it a synthetic compound, I mean do you know?

Steve:                                   Yip.

Jeff:                                       Yeah it is.

Steve:                                   Synthetic compound and basically by activating uncoupling protein, and the way it works is, it’s like you’re excersizing 24 hours a day.

Jeff:                                       Wow, but surely I mean, even with your central nervous system there’s probably some other things that we need to discuss or understand. I don’t know if it evens, because it’s been banned, they probably haven’t looked into it, but there would be additional, there’s always the piper to pay. You know what I mean Steve?

Steve:                                   Yes.

Jeff:                                       I mean sure you might get the weight loss, and again we can talk about people over heating and effectively I’d imagine you’d be looking at organ shutdown? Is that what happens?

Steve:                                   Yeah, yeah that, your brain overheats and you, the fat in your lipids in your brain melt to a point where they lose their structural integrity and then you get an influx of calcium mines and all that and the brain dies.

Jeff:                                       Yip.

Steve:                                   That’s the end result of it. But before it dies, if you can remember there’s five uncoupling proteins.

Jeff:                                       Yip.

Steve:                                   Number four and five are found in the brain.

Jeff:                                       Yip.

Steve:                                   And if you can increase uncoupling proteins in the brain, using other medicines or this medicine, it has been found in rats, to help with Parkinson’s Disease.

Jeff:                                       Ah hell.

Steve:                                   You know what I mean?

Jeff:                                       Steve you not really talking me off it right now.

Steve:                                   Oh I know, I’m just telling you the facts and literature. I mean it’s just one of those drugs that I think was abused.

Jeff:                                       Yip.

Steve:                                   And still to this very day is abused and used by lots of people.

Jeff:                                       Yip. How was it, how were people still able to get it, if effectively it was banned I mean, and it was used in industry for killing bugs, which I find interesting, was it sprayed it on them or something like that?

Steve:                                   Yeah.

Jeff:                                       So therefore is it just underground labs that [crosstalk 00:14:23].

Steve:                                   Underground labs absolutely it’s like the illegal drugs, heroines and-

Jeff:                                       Yip.

Steve:                                   They just make it.

Jeff:                                       Yip.

Steve:                                   It’s not, you know dinitrophenyl is a very simple chemical.

Jeff:                                       Right.

Steve:                                   It’s a phenolic, which a phenol is mean-based thing-

Jeff:                                       Okay.

Steve:                                   And you add some chemicals to it, so it’s pretty easy to make actually.

Jeff:                                       Steve we need to be a good citizen here.

Steve:                                   Yes.

Jeff:                                       Okay so tell us the likelihood of death or do you have any statistics on how many people have actually died from using this?

Steve:                                   I do. Basically there was someone who died who overdosed and try to kill himself by taking 17 tablets at once, and they were contained, found to contain quite high amounts of it. But basically they swallowed 17.

Jeff:                                       Why would you do that?

Steve:                                   Trying to commit suicide.

Jeff:                                       If you’re gonna kill yourself, well take something that’s gonna put you into a nice sleep and then slowly gonna die. Not cook yourself from the inside.

Steve:                                   Yeah.

Jeff:                                       Forget about that ’cause the person was obviously using it off script. It’s like math statistics where, they recorded death because someone took a natural supplement but they’ve, you know he had a bullet hole in the middle of his chest, you know?

Steve:                                   Yes.

Jeff:                                       Yeah but he died from taking vitamin C.

Steve:                                   Yeah.

Jeff:                                       No okay, listen let’s discount that, what else?

Steve:                                   Alright. There is another one basically he, someone had a 46 year old man who died 21 hours after ingesting a DNP, and it basically caused profound hyperthermia which is overheating dramatically, acute renal failure, too much calcium in the blood hypercalcemia and metabolic acidosis from the hyper metabolism, he overdosed on it, because he thought he was taking a 100 milligrams and it was 360 milligram tablet.

Jeff:                                       See again you still not scaring me Steve. I mean again, a lot of the guys that are out there that are pushing the envelope, would go well I’m not an idiot, so I mean again the issues that could come is if it’s incorrectly labeled, if it’s too strong and you took it. I mean again that’s the thing with you know, not counterfeit, but you know non-governed manufacture, a little street you know labs and all the rest of it. Is that potentially, you can get a stronger batch then what you know, and you could take more and you can hurt yourself.

Steve:                                   Yes exactly.

Jeff:                                       But you say [crosstalk 00:16:16] those things aren’t scary to me Steve.

Steve:                                   Finnish bodybuilder went to jail, [inaudible 00:16:20]. He went to hospital and survived ’cause he took 380 milligrams of it, he’s got a fever and survived. So again, there I mean, it is, it was used for a lot of years and it was just the problem is it’s the dose of it.

Jeff:                                       Yeah we’ve done one of these before Steve, where you said oo this is really scary, you shouldn’t use it. And I’m listening to that going that’s not putting anybody off especially if they’re at the high-end of bodybuilding. I mean they prob, we probably done a disservice, people probably ain’t gonna go and look for it now.

Steve:                                   But, that’s it, it’s just what the studies say. Yeah.

Jeff:                                       Okay well, so I mean again, be very aware that it can obviously get yourself into some trouble with this sort of stuff. I mean I’ve heard of, I’ve had some friends of mine use this before, many years ago. I didn’t ask them too much about it, but he had to sleep with the fan on in the middle of winter, was nothing, because he was basically felt like he was just in an oven. So you know, but yeah certainly, don’t do it kids.

Steve:                                   Yeah it is and apart from the overheating, nausea and vomiting, if you take too much you can get an irregular heart rate, which is problematic if you get like, you overheat ’cause your heart rate goes too high, and if you’ve got a bad heart.

Jeff:                                       Yeah, well undiagnosed heart conditions all the time, like long is it Long O.T?

Steve:                                   Long St.

Jeff:                                       Long st.

Steve:                                   And, you could also have an aneurysm which is a bulge in, and say an aortic aneurysm, which means that if you get too much pressure through there, then you’d burst and you die.

Jeff:                                       You’re putting your body under a lot of stress. So natural ways to be able to replicate DNP, exercise?

Steve:                                   Yes, CLA.

Jeff:                                       CLA.

Anything else Steve that people could, I mean again it’s not gonna be the same effects but I mean it’s gonna help?

Steve:                                   Yip, and ketogenic diet increases mitochondria uncoupling and that was 2004 exercise increase uncoupling protein too. Which is the one found in your muscles, three is in your muscles too, one is found in your brown and white fat. So if you ever have wondered why an animal like a bear can hibernate all winter and not die of frostbite in the snow. It’s because he’s got massive amounts of uncoupling protein one, so he’s brown fat becomes just he just heats up all winter.

Jeff:                                       Is that why it’s also, they say that when you put on the weight like for baby weight for example. If you can take it off in the first 12 months it’s easier to burn after that period of time, it kind of converts from that brown fat more to that white? Which becomes poor blood supply, less stored energy per se? Is that correct?

Steve:                                   Absolutely it’s the basically the brown fat is because there’s a lot of mitochondria in it, and that’s why this process can occur, you can burn that brown fat because it has a lot of the mitochondria. Mitochondria is where it’s all burnt. Also fatty acids can increase thermogenesis and uncoupling protein. So if you are on a higher fat diet like the classic one was the Atkins Diet, and they couldn’t figure out, they were eating all these calories and they lost more weight. And it was due to uncoupling protein, up regulation, in a natural healthy safe way.

Jeff:                                       Yip.

Steve:                                   And that’s one of the reasons my CLA is the most potent one to do that.

Jeff:                                       And Steve we gonna do the more of the performance podcast as well too. One of the things I wanna talk to you about, and this is a side note, is the consumption of carbohydrates around trying times for the benefit for improved muscle conditioning, so even though I like the Ketogenic diet in moderation from time to time. In some people, it does not work for Tony, because her mitochondrial, the way that her mitochondrial is working at the moment, she’s got the trip to fan steel. So I mean again if people say keto, keto, keto, and it’s not working for you, well you might not be geared up to do it properly Stevo.

Steve:                                   Yeah that’s right, and it is tougher. So you know this is where the CLA could work really well, so that’s the uncoupling protein, there just remember there’s five types. The one is found in the fat, two and three in the muscles, four and five in the brain.

Jeff:                                       Right.

Steve:                                   And if you activate it in the brain, it’s good for the brain.

Jeff:                                       Yip.

Steve:                                   Now the reason why it’s activated during exercise, is yes, that’s what heats you up but the actual reason it does it is, in the presence of free radicals, so when you exercise you produce more free radicals, and your body increases uncoupling protein, ’cause when the hydrogen binds with the oxygen the free radical oxygen, it forms H2O, or water.

Jeff:                                       Yip.

Steve:                                   So it neutralizes free radicals, so that’s why exercise is another reason why it’s so good for you, it acts as antioxidant-

Jeff:                                       Right.

Steve:                                   … as well as burning fat.

Jeff:                                       I was gonna say in terms of then you know oxidative stress which can you know in sumption of more oxygen or even when you’re breathing heavy and all the rest of it, but antioxidants naturally, good diet obviously Stevo. I mean it’s gonna help as well too. Alright anything else about DNP before we move on?

Steve:                                   Well no, that’s interesting about DNP, that’s the main story about DNP it just works on uncoupling protein throughout the body and it’s not regulated like it can be. It’s gotta, you know you can’t really overdose on ketogenic diet or CLA but you can overdose on this stuff and there has been deaths reported to it.

Jeff:                                       Steve it’s not, I was expecting more.

Steve:                                   Yeah I do.

Jeff:                                       You know. I mean, we know it’s not good for you and we definitely not advocating it, but it’s not as scary as I thought it could be.

Steve:                                   No, no it’s like anything it’s dose dependent. The only difference between a drug and a toxin, is the dose. If you take a terrible drug even a low dose it should be fine for you. You know it just depends on the dose, it really comes down to it. This thing has a very easy ways to abuse it, ’cause you wanna burn more fat, you just take more of it and it works. It’s not like, oh, I’m taking this stuff and it doesn’t work, this works, no doubt about it so it’s easy to overdose on ’cause you wanna burn more fat.

Jeff:                                       Well just take CLA and that should get you some of the weight and the results that you get.

Steve:                                   Some of the weight, yeah exercise of course.

Jeff:                                       And exercise of course.

Steve:                                   But we’re not here to talk about that.

Jeff:                                       No.

Steve:                                   Forget that.

Jeff:                                       Clenbuterol?

Steve:                                   Yeah Clenbuterol.

Jeff:                                       So, this is another one that’s used again. Completely illegal for people to take so is DNP, by the way I just want to mention that.

Steve:                                   Yes, totally illegal.

Jeff:                                       But Clenbuterol Stevo and again utilized normally in the racing industry.

Steve:                                   Yes.

Jeff:                                       And specifically for bronchial dilator.

Steve:                                   Bronchial dilator.

Jeff:                                       For horses?

Steve:                                   For horses.

Jeff:                                       And now my understanding horses can’t even take it before the races because it gives them an unfair advantage is that correct?

Steve:                                   It does yeah. It’s banned for horse racing but actually is a very good veterinary drug for animals with asthma.

Jeff:                                       Right.

Steve:                                   And it works on the beta-A generic receptors and this means it’s bronchodilator, ’cause when you release adrenalin, which is similar to this thing, it’s not a steroid but this thing and it dilates the bronchials to let more air in when you’re puffing and running and that sort of thing, and this does it chemically so it’s very very good.

Jeff:                                       Yip.

Steve:                                   For that. The other interesting thing, it binds to the same receptors as the adrenaline receptor, but actually produces a greater effect for fat burning and adrenaline itself.

Jeff:                                       Right. So would you liken it to a lesser stimulant would be like caffeine?

Steve:                                   Yeah, yeah because that knocks out the adenosine receptors, which means you get more adrenaline sort of activating.

Jeff:                                       Yeah.

Steve:                                   So you know and we can talk about caffeine aspirin combinations later.

Jeff:                                       It’s the old ECA stack Stevo.

Steve:                                   ECA stack yeah. So that’s in there too. But basically this stuffs great, but the other interesting thing about this is, that there are about three enzymes that break down muscle tissue. Clenbuterol inhibits them.

Jeff:                                       Yes and that’s why this Clenbuterol has been a source for many bodybuilders fitness figure. You know because they wanna diet and obviously restrict calories, but at the same time, they don’t want to lose their muscle tissue, and that is the old oxymoron you know, so Clenbuterol obviously a big tick in that camp. And that’s why so many people use it.

Steve:                                   Yeah and you know, it’s banned around the world for things but no for animals so compared to the other one, you know it’s not as dangerous, let’s face it but it does, can increase the basal metabolic rate as well, but it preserves muscle tissue and that’s, well people take this when they’re cutting down for an event, a bodybuilding show ’cause you know the idea of cutting is to you know get rid of all the fat but as a side effect you eat less food and you do lose some muscle. Well Clenbuterol or clen as they call it or bute is another name. That actually holds on to your muscle so it is quite an interesting one so it’s extraordinarily good when you’re cutting down.

Jeff:                                       But what are the negatives Stevo? Hit me with it.

Steve:                                   Well it increases your basal metabolic rate again by 10 percent, and it works like adrenaline, so on this stuff you can’t sleep on it, because it activates the adrenaline receptors.

Jeff:                                       Yeah.

Steve:                                   Increases basal metabolic rate so you end up getting hot again. Again by about 10 percent and also of course it has an effect by which it becomes resistant in the body.

Jeff:                                       Ah-hah. So you have to take more?

Steve:                                   So you actually have to up the dose more, which is a bit scary so they usually take it cycling on or cycling off. But yeah it is dangerous it has had side effects, people have died from overdosing.

Jeff:                                       Yeah. I had a friend that died from overdosing.

Steve:                                   Really?

Jeff:                                       Yip.

Steve:                                   Oh okay.

Jeff:                                       Basically stripped out all the fat, I also know causes a problem with taurine which can also effect the heart as well too. So you know, look when I was younger and I was more interested in aesthetics than, than health.

Steve:                                   Yeah.

Jeff:                                       I did use it Steve and.

Steve:                                   How did you feel on it?

Jeff:                                       Incredibly angry, really cranky like a real asshole. You know all the time it made me, it really changed my disposition and don’t say, oh it’s because you were taking other things ’cause at that stage, I wasn’t, I was just taking it on its own. And got the shakes really bad.

Steve:                                   Yeah.

Jeff:                                       Like really bad like and you felt anxious and you know that’s kind of the way that I felt. Yeah a friend, through a combination of things, so you can’t blame it purely on the drug but end up dying of an arterial rupture, which the amounts of fats that were in the blood stream were I think you know so low. Then they actually put it down to the fact that it was the Clenbuterol. I don’t know, and that could have been a wife’s tale that was just passed through the community as well too. So but yeah I know it does have an impact on taurine as well too.

Steve:                                   Yeah.[crosstalk 00:25:32].

Jeff:                                       It can cause quite severe cramps. So that’s why a lot of the guys took more oils especially the Omega’s but also then sub, you know also added taurine in as well too.

Steve:                                   Right, and that’s why taurine’s added to stimulant drinks.

Jeff:                                       For the heart?

Steve:                                   Yeah, yeah.

Jeff:                                       ‘Cause taurine is the most abundant amino acid in the heart.

Steve:                                   Yeah.

Jeff:                                       So yeah again, yeah not something that I’d again recommend but again, it is used especially by a lot of the fitness community, because it works.

Steve:                                   Yeah and it spikes, it causes arrhythmia’s and of course spikes your blood pressure. Side effects are nausea, nervousness, dizziness, drowsiness, dry mouth, facial flushing, headache, heartburn, increased sweating, insomnia, lightheadedness, muscle cramps, vomiting and chest pain.

Jeff:                                       Right.

Steve:                                   They’re the listed side affects of it. So it’s quite a scary side effect.  It’s funny when I started working here, and I found out all the athletes we were talking too were on Clenbuterol I’m thinking.

Jeff:                                       Not our athletes, I just wanna say.

Steve:                                   No, no, no, no.

Jeff:                                       This is because we go out and we talk and we wanna help people you know and again we know that a lot of people are gonna do this regardless whether we say it’s good or not.

Steve:                                   Yeah.

Jeff:                                       So we’d rather give people the information so, one their informed, and secondly if they’re noticing any of these things they can obviously take action about it.

Steve:                                   I just thought aw it’s incredible, they’re such good athletes despite having all this asthma. ‘Cause that’s what I thought they were taking it for. I didn’t know the other effects, I knew it was great for your lungs and all this sort of stuff. So it is a very scary stimulant and, and does have it stuffs up your sleep too of course, so you can’t really sleep on it.

Jeff:                                       Yeah.

Steve:                                   It’s got a long, it depletes potassium too, which can heart problems too.

Jeff:                                       Yeah right.

Steve:                                   Yeah so that’s another problem with it.

Jeff:                                       Do you think that that could have been part of the problem with the arterial rupture Stevo?

Steve:                                   Yip and it depletes taurine as you correctly pointed out.

Jeff:                                       Yeah.

Steve:                                   So very, very scary. There’s a few people, it’s banned by wider and that sort of stuff and the IOC and that. But there’s been some countries that have been found like some Mexican soccer players.

Jeff:                                       They use it?

Steve:                                   They use it.

Jeff:                                       Well of course if the number one reason to use it is to increase the capacity of the lungs, in a way it’s almost like a mini EPO.

Steve:                                   Yeah.

Jeff:                                       Which is effectively this is what a lot of cyclists, used to use, I think is that what Lance Armstrong got done for?

Steve:                                   Aw, you reach for a poet and then blood doping he got busted for which.

Jeff:                                       And that basically gives you more red blood cells and a greater capacity to hold oxygen. Is that correct?

Steve:                                   Yeah basically, and this is more of a performance cheat but if you take your blood and your body will make red blood cells too.

Jeff:                                       Then you put the blood back in again.

Steve:                                   Yeah and you have loads of them.

Jeff:                                       Yip.

Steve:                                   And it’s the bloods very thick.

Jeff:                                       Yip.

Steve:                                   But you know if you don’t die of a clot then you’ll get through the race and probably win.

Jeff:                                       Right and Clenbuterol works on improving the lungs.

Steve:                                   The lungs function.

Jeff:                                       Yeah which increases the ability to take in more oxygen and does it also increase the ability to remove or pent out acid Steve?

Steve:                                   Yip CO2 so.

Jeff:                                       So your lactate threshold is gonna go up.

Steve:                                   Exactly.

Jeff:                                       Which means you can exercise for longer before lactic acid lactate starts building up in the muscles.

Steve:                                   Yeah it’s a good way to cheat. The puff is a Salbutamol which is a very similar sort of action but it’s topic on the lungs and it’s fine.

Jeff:                                       Right and that doesn’t have the same impact on fat loss?

Steve:                                   No, it’s good for your lungs but obviously there the blue puff is that everyman [crosstalk 00:28:42]

Jeff:                                       Good for your lungs interesting thou cause it’s still[crosstalk 00:28:44].

Steve:                                   Aw yeah.

Jeff:                                       Yeah right, I’m still synthetic correct?

Steve:                                   It’s not good for your lungs no.

Jeff:                                       Yeah it gives that effect but long term effect of using steroids because which is what it is Steve on the lungs must have a bad effect?

Steve:                                   Bad ones, and the reason why a lot of people their lungs spasm because they get say an allergy going in there. If you open up the allergens then the odds is going deeper.

Jeff:                                       Right.

Steve:                                   Its a long you don’t use these things as a you know I mean they do asthmatics use them all the time but use should be allowed to use them very acutely and just to stop you from you know having an Asthma attack, but people use them you know for sporting events and all sorts of things.

Jeff:                                       Better off building a lung capacity, swimming I know is a really popular one.

Steve:                                   Exactly, we talking about cheating today so that’s another one you can add to the cheating list.

Jeff:                                       Yeah from a natural point of view as far as Clenbuterol is concerned peppermint?

Steve:                                   Yeah peppermints excellent.

Jeff:                                       Yeah.

Steve:                                   And for fat loss again CLA.

Jeff:                                       Yip.

Steve:                                   Is good for this to so, so you know you’ve got all these sort of agents that stimulate fat burning and Clenbuterol with all those side affects.

Jeff:                                       Yip.

Steve:                                   You know the other thing about this is when you get all those side affects, you don’t train as hard.

Jeff:                                       Yeah.

Steve:                                   If you feeling pretty ordinary.

Jeff:                                       Yeah sure.

Steve:                                   So you know you gotta by that up to even if you wanting to take it.

Jeff:                                       And look long term it’s, it’s not sustainable and it cost a lot. It’s funny you know so.

Steve:                                   Is it?

Jeff:                                       Yeah well yeah well I don’t know if it’s real you know it depends I guess.

Steve:                                   How did you get your hands on it? I mean without detailing, is just internet or view and say a word?

Jeff:                                       Black market through someone who knew someone who knew someone who knew someone. So it’s just one of those things again. Again I’m not well some of the stuff I did when I was younger I just didn’t care Steve you know.

Steve:                                   Yeah.

Jeff:                                       So I’d just give anything a crack you know I was interested to find out what the results would be so and look it did work but I, I hated it. Tiny wouldn’t come near me when I was on it because I was horrible, and I just felt jittery and anxious the entire time and for me it just wasn’t worth it. So I only used it a couple of times.

Steve:                                   Well it’s, it’s pretty incredible stuff but it works like you know adrenaline receptors and that’s pretty scary. But I’ve got another drug for you anyway you can go right now to an Australian doctor and legally get a prescription for it.

Jeff:                                       Duro mine?

Steve:                                   Yes.

Jeff:                                       Yeah.

Steve:                                   Duro mine or Phentermine which is.

Jeff:                                       Vary popular, what’s the usage like in Australia?

Steve:                                   Huge.

Jeff:                                       Do you have any statistics?

Steve:                                   There was, it was huge it was like there was you know over a million prescriptions written last year for it.

Jeff:                                       In Australia?

Steve:                                   In Australia.

Jeff:                                       Wow.

Steve:                                   Which I thought there would be more.

Jeff:                                       One in 20 people?

Steve:                                   Well probably not cause they get repeat prescriptions.

Jeff:                                       Ah okay gotcha.

Steve:                                   But you know it is extraordinarily common and it’s completely legal. But if I can take you back to the 90’s when there was a drug out called Fen fen.

Jeff:                                       I remember that yes.

Steve:                                   Yes it’s Fenfluramine with phentermine which is the two drugs. Ones a Serotonergic drug and one is a Adrenergic drug and when you combine them you get appetite reduction and increase metabolism.

Jeff:                                       Wow.

Steve:                                   So it was great for those, why am I saying great, for those people who wanted to lose weight but couldn’t cause they just kept eating.

Jeff:                                       Yip, yip.

Steve:                                   You know so it was a perfect, perfect drug 20 years ago that caused them to lose a lot of weight and to regulate their appetite. Are you ready for the but?

Jeff:                                       Yip.

Steve:                                   Yeah it killed a lot of people but apart from that it worked really well.

Jeff:                                       Yeah well I mean that’s permanent weight lose Steve.

Steve:                                   Yeah it caused potentially fatal pulmonary hypertension, which is blood pressure through your lungs.

Jeff:                                       Right.

Steve:                                   And heart valve problems which caused it to be withdrawn from the market a few years later, and there was law suits of up to 13 billion dollars due to the damages to these drugs.

Jeff:                                       Wow.

Steve:                                   So a lot of people were affected by it.

Jeff:                                       It’s funny you know often times a lot of the over counter prescription medicine which seems to be available now or in the recent past. Seems to persistent, to the market place with far worse side effects, then some of the other stuff we’ve been talking about.

Steve:                                   And this is you’ve gotta remember if drugs have severe side effects and it will kill say you know like chemo you know potentially.

Jeff:                                       Right.

Steve:                                   Potentially you can survive a survive a cancer that may not survived. So you ready, you’re happy to put up with the feeling like crap and the hair falling out. Terrible sorrow this is just to lose a few rounds. Let’s face it you know which you can typically do other wise. Now I know we’ll get arguments about that but really it’s for people to lose weight and this is a valid prescription that they gave out and kill people by you know destroying the heart valves.

Jeff:                                       Wow, was there an estimate of how many people died from taking the pills then?

Steve:                                   They didn’t really sort of say that in the study.

Jeff:                                       But they paid out 13 billion dollars must of been a truck load?

Steve:                                   Billion dollars. Yeah but here’s some good news for you the phentermine wasn’t found, was found the one that Duro mine was not to have that to not to many problems it works on the adrenaline receptors. Sp it’s like a stimulant.

Jeff:                                       Yeah it’s like speed Steve for people who understand amphetamine so problem is diminishing returns for sure.

Steve:                                   Very much so and then it’s extremely addictive.

Jeff:                                       Right.

Steve:                                   These amphetamine.

Jeff:                                       ‘Cause they would give you a high right? I mean you’d feel pretty good on it?

Steve:                                   Oh yeah you feel great on it.

Jeff:                                       Yeah.

Steve:                                   The only problem is it’s got an extraordinarily long half life and that’s how long the drug hangs around the body.

Jeff:                                       Yeah.

Steve:                                   So you only need to dose it once a day. The problem is that it last for about 25 hours in the system so almost anyone on this drug gets insomnia.

Jeff:                                       Wow.

Steve:                                   Yeah and it is a completely legal amphetamine.

Jeff:                                       What about if they speed up a half life to 12 hours or something like that?

Steve:                                   Why yeah it’s just the chemical drug they patented and you know it works. I read the marketing blur but I know it says this fantastic it will burn, fit, sleep, fat as you during the day and at night.

Jeff:                                       While your sleeping? That’s because your not sleeping your on the treadmill like a hamster.

Steve:                                   This is tearing me down. Yeah its not really I mean I love the marketing thing but and also amphetamines they due reduce your appetite.

Jeff:                                       Sure but as we know as well to you’ve gotta take more and more because your body will build up a tolerance to it.

Steve:                                   It does.

Jeff:                                       And this is the thing with anything realistically is that negative feedback loops prevent the body from staying out homeostasis for to long. Which is why these things are you know a short term fix. Unless it comes from a natural compound or is naturally going to just benefit you know your diet or you nutrition it’s just it’s not smart.

Steve:                                   Another great side effect of amphetamine you gonna love this one.

Jeff:                                       Yeah.

Steve:                                   Is it grows your prostate.

Jeff:                                       Even in woman?

Steve:                                   I’m giving you a graphic one. No, no in men.

Jeff:                                       What about women that choose to identify as men?

Steve:                                   Well it increases dihydrotestosterone so they’ll increase their masculinity as well.

Jeff:                                       Really can they have a variolization effect on woman?

Steve:                                   Yes.

Jeff:                                       Wow.

Steve:                                   Very much so.

Jeff:                                       What Duromine?

Steve:                                   Duro mine.

Jeff:                                       Wow.

Steve:                                   Yeah so it stuffs up your hormones as well, really quite dramatically and this paper is 2018 they just finding this out now.

Jeff:                                       So if guys are taking it definitely watch out for the enlarge prostate and if your hairs starting to shed. For female watch out that your voice doesn’t drop that you don’t potentially get [inaudible 00:35:28] Steve could that be?

Steve:                                   Yip [inaudible 00:35:30].

Jeff:                                       And PCOS.

Steve:                                   Yip PCOS.

Jeff:                                       And definitely a enlarging of the clitoris.

Steve:                                   Absolutely engorge in the clitoris, the only other the good news about that is you probably won’t get that far if you take this drug for too long, ’cause there are other side effects that will kill you.

Jeff:                                       Right.

Steve:                                   It increases intracranial hemorrhage or strokes.

Jeff:                                       Wow.

Steve:                                   Yip.

Jeff:                                       Again this sound scarier then what the bloody DNP sounds.

Steve:                                   A little bit I mean the reason why they know more about this is because it’s a legal drug so maybe.

Jeff:                                       That’s actually a really good point.

Steve:                                   They probably.

Jeff:                                       With DNP specifically because it’s band there’s probably not as many reported cases people are probably not using it as much, so that’s actually a really good point Steve.

Steve:                                   And if they use it they probably you know they try hide it.

Jeff:                                       Lie about it?

Steve:                                   Yeah, yeah it’s not exactly this stuff is well known it’s probably safe you do increase with aneurysm in the brain and strokes, and the reason for that is, because if you think of the name amphetamine.

Jeff:                                       Yeah.

Steve:                                   It peps you up.

Jeff:                                       Yip.

Steve:                                   Which is, you know you feel fantastic but it increases brain circulation to the point where you get intercranial pressures and you get strokes.

Jeff:                                       Does it have an impact on serotonin levels as well to Steve?

Steve:                                   It drives up serotonin.

Jeff:                                       So there for if you exhaust your serotonin levels that could lead to other things like depression if your predisposed to it?

Steve:                                   Absolutely, depression is one of the side effects. There’s a whole lot of side effects here apart from the nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, blah, blah, blah. One of the worst one’s here is impedance.

Jeff:                                       because you-

Steve:                                   That’s it,

Jeff:                                       -cause you can kill me.

Steve:                                   Yeah.other side effects are of course high blood pressure, palpitations, hyperactivity, sleep problems, and restlessness and so you get incredible headache tremors, dizziness and increase or decrease interests in sex so it just alters your sex between your hormones.

Jeff:                                       I was gonna say DHT potentially could actually improve because you need that.

Steve:                                   Yeah it’s a very potent estrogen.

Jeff:                                       Well yeah.

Steve:                                   So again.

Jeff:                                       The most potent estrogen.

Steve:                                   So again this is given out quite really new is not the right word but you gotta remember it’s actually given out quite regularly.

Jeff:                                       The problem is Bob talking to Dell one of the guys who works here, and she was saying friends of hers would ask their fat friends to go and get a prescription for it so they could you knock off you know three or four kilo’s.

Steve:                                   Yeah.

Jeff:                                       In a sort period of time.

Steve:                                   Why not?

Jeff:                                       Because the doctor wouldn’t prescribe it to them, that’s why they asking their friends to go get them and use them off script so anyway.

Steve:                                   And just to go into the bat for the doctor’s a little bit here the doctors says have you, you know in the 15 minutes consult they’ll say have you tried diet and exercise? The fat person says yes I have. Okay well here’s something extra you know there’s this one and my favorite drug which is Xenical the other one.

Jeff:                                       Yeah you love it?

Steve:                                   Love it. It’s got it’s a fantastic drug to take if you and again prescription drug you can get it, it’s pretty simple mechanism.

Jeff:                                       Well we’ve mentioned it before Xenical mimics. Sorry just before we get into that so as far as Duromine is concerned the natural things that you can take, which has the negative side effects is Steve is Caffeine the closest?

Steve:                                   Caffeine’s close, aspirin.

Jeff:                                       Aspirin, ECA stack?

Steve:                                   Yeah ECA stack.

Jeff:                                       So that also includes ephedrine or Myghan?

Steve:                                   Myghan yeah yeah.

Jeff:                                       Which is now banned and I think in most of the west?

Steve:                                   Yeah.

Jeff:                                       But Caffeine and asprin together has some effect? Is it the asprin prolongs the half life of the caffeine?

Steve:                                   Absolutely yeah so its great to take when I say great you know really the contents of the podcast you say great is an asprin.

Jeff:                                       Yeah.

Steve:                                   before you try it with with your caffeine because it’s an anti inflammatory as well.

Jeff:                                       Yeah.

Steve:                                   So it relieves a bit of pain, so you can train harder or longer.

Jeff:                                       The problem is Stevo if you have a muscle tear you get bruising. This box can’t use asprin anybody doing any sort of contact sport whether you’re playing rugby or what have you even football. Anywhere, where you can get potentially bruised or you’ve got you know trauma in terms of contact with other people or things. You should avoid it especially if you get a serve injury, the impact of that bleeding it just doesn’t stop. It don’t clot.

Steve:                                   It doesn’t clot no.

Jeff:                                       So you can effectively have some serious issues if you take asprin before an event were you could get injured.

Steve:                                   Contact sport absolutely and I mean this in the contents of the website you know where there’s lots of side effects to these things.

Jeff:                                       Yeah.

Steve:                                   This is just one, the only problem with the asprin and caffeine you can get them from pretty much a supermarket.

Jeff:                                       Sure you can.

Steve:                                   You know you can just go I’ll take some Nodo’s the caffeine and I’ll get aspro clear and I’ll swallow a caffeine pill in the morning or three or four and then I’ll drink down two or three aspirins and then I’ll feel great and I’ll go for that run, gym whatever it is and so this is in his context this is a quite an scary combination because there are massive side effects to that.

Jeff:                                       Yeah.

Steve:                                   I mean crazy stuff, but it’s still probably not as bad as the side effects of Xenical.

Jeff:                                       Well Xenical is interesting and again I like to look at what science has done to you know mimic nature, if that makes sense? Chitosan is probably the natural equivalent which was all the rage back in the 90s do you remember when they came out?

Steve:                                   Yeah.

Jeff:                                       And so effectively positively it’s positively charged?

Steve:                                   It’s positively charged.

Jeff:                                       Right so Chitosan is negatively charged, so what it would do is it effectively attract fat molecules to it. So the whole idea was that you can eat what you wanted within reason. Without changing your lifestyle but lose weight. The problem with that, that I always saw and there was a couple of problems with Chitosan and it certainly wasn’t as effective as Xenical at attracting that. Is that firstly all your fat cells vitamins were gonna get sucked up at the same time right?

Steve:                                   Of course they would.

Jeff:                                       That was number one. Number two was that is if you had a particular fatty meal and you took the stuff and I’m talking more Xenical then the Chitosan here.

Steve:                                   Yeah.

Jeff:                                       That you get the fantastic side effect of anal leakage which you anal seepage which you mentioned before.

Steve:                                   Anal seepage, yeah that’s a interesting side effect. They do come with these special adult nappies now or diapers for the Americans so you can take you Xenical and.

Jeff:                                       Do they sell them with it?

Steve:                                   No you get them at the pharmacy with them.

Jeff:                                       Oh okay.

Steve:                                   It’s recommended that you have diapers on or nappies on during the day if your an adult and your on this.

Jeff:                                       And your consuming high amounts of fat.

Steve:                                   Yeah, but I’m trying not to look over there cause our camera guy is freaking out a bit.

Jeff:                                       Yeah.

Steve:                                   There is another side effect and you explain how this works. It is a side effect and I’m not joking gas with discharge, what does that mean Jeff?

Jeff:                                       Well brown tunnel ducks turn into more like brown bears. How’s that?

Steve:                                   And heres the top one. Oily spotting on underwear anal seepage?

Jeff:                                       Oily spotting on underwear anal seepage, well I mean like that’s probably not something that you’re going to put on your Tinder page is it?

Steve:                                   Now gas with discharge is the worst thing about it is that Xenical makes you fart more.

Jeff:                                       Yeah.

Steve:                                   So you’re gonna get more of the discharge. There’s also another mind boggling thing.

Jeff:                                       And that’s the concern Steve I mean everyone farts but I mean it’s the, follow through that especially that’s what you don’t want right?

Steve:                                   No you don’t want that. But there’s more bad news coming it’s actually the inability to control bowel movements is number one.

Jeff:                                       You know every time you drop one of these bombs potentially it could be a log can be following out and you’ve got no control over that.

Steve:                                   Absolutely because that’s not a log it’s actually-

Jeff:                                       A splatter.

Steve:                                   -a liquidy bistratal stool chart you know right up there is one you know like a very soft one also unfortunately another side effect.

Jeff:                                       I think the technical term for that Steve I’m sorry is called a shart actually.

Steve:                                   Shart that’s it yeah we gotta keep the signs up here also you get an increase number of bowels movements along with all those other side effects. So you get more of all this happening.

Jeff:                                       More regular.

Steve:                                   More regular.

Jeff:                                       More regular sharts. They should use that as their marketing.

Steve:                                   Absolutely.

Jeff:                                       They don’t even have to pay for that.

Steve:                                   Another one here is of course diarrhea and vomiting so just in case.

Jeff:                                       Both ends?

Steve:                                   Yeah both ends.

Jeff:                                       I think they call that stereo.

Steve:                                   Yeah and there’s another both end things. You get stomach pain as well as rectal pain with this drug.

Jeff:                                       Fantastic. Just when you, with a Xenical you can have it all.

Steve:                                   You can it all.

Jeff:                                       I see I should be head of their marketing,

Steve:                                   But you know what you gonna go to the gym and you can also suffer weakness that’s another side effect.

Jeff:                                       Three?

Steve:                                   Three it’s just getting bad, you get anal itching which is a little bit of a problem to sorry to be so graphic.

Jeff:                                       Yeah.

Steve:                                   And you get.

Jeff:                                       There’s nothing worse than when you get a itchy bum and your in a meeting. You know and you can’t get out and you really need to you know just give the ring a bit of a scratch.

Steve:                                   It’s just normal.

Jeff:                                       So imagine having that all the time. You’ve got a business meeting, you’re sharting and feel like spewing and you wanna itch your bum hole?

Steve:                                   Look I’m trying to always put a positive spin at least it will be comfortable near bum when you wear the nappy it’s a bit softer.

Jeff:                                       Wow Steve it doesn’t stop see I don’t take Xenical and I still wear those nappies now. It’s just Downey soft just are per the instructions on the.

Steve:                                   They are awesome.

Jeff:                                       They are they not lying.

Steve:                                   Heres the weirdest side effect you get problems with your teeth or gums. What I can’t even work that out and it’s like I can’t even think of the bite casual.

Jeff:                                       Is that because you’re not getting enough of the essential fats into your diet?

Steve:                                   Probably, it’s weird you’re getting all sorts of other stuff, I mean but my favorite one of course is, oh you get also urgent bowel movements so you don’t know there coming and then they come ’cause there’s no receptors on your rectum and not being activated because it’s a soft stool. So you don’t you go oh I have to go to the loo ah to late.

Jeff:                                       Did I ever tell you the story about the first time that I had lentils?

Steve:                                   No.

Jeff:                                       So way back in the day when I was, I think I was actually in grade 12 and I had to go and get a job. And I went and got a job at the Snow Deli I think I can say this ’cause they not in business anymore.

Steve:                                   Oh yeah.

Jeff:                                       And it was like just a deli at the shopping center and this was at the Logan Hyperdome which is just like for our American friends it’s like the mall you know like the big mall, and I don’t know how I got the job ’cause I’m shocking at weighing things out anyway. So anyway I got the job and I’m sitting there and before I went, mum said well let me get you some lunch before you go. So she made me a big bowl of lentil soup, now I never had lentils before alright.

Steve:                                   Sure.

Jeff:                                       And so I’d eaten it went straight to work and I was at work for probably an half an hour or so, and I feel like I’ve been on Xenical.

Steve:                                   Right.

Jeff:                                       Because the gasses blow and all of a sudden I was literally sprinting through the looking for the nearest toilet. I think I made it there with literally half a second to spare, and you know honest Steve you know that I was desperate because you know I have never ever used a public toilet.

Steve:                                   Really?

Jeff:                                       Never.

Steve:                                   That’s amazing.

Jeff:                                       Do you know why? This is really funny because when I young when I really young, my moms Scottish and my moms mom said don’t go to the dentist because they’ll hurt you. So as a result she’s had most of her teeth removed right.

Steve:                                   Of course.

Jeff:                                       Don’t go in the water you’ll drown. So she never learned how to swim so to this day she can’t swim right.

Steve:                                   Wow.

Jeff:                                       So on my mom’s side was this extreme fear right anyway to cut a long story short. So I never went to public toilets because my mum should me a picture of a woman who had extreme weight gain on her legs with these massive lumps and I said mum how did she get this? This is probably when I was about four or five and she said she got that from sitting on a public toilet seat.

Steve:                                   Right.

Jeff:                                       To this day I can’t use mind you I don’t know if you go into this specially for men. Women I know you have to wait, a while but typically it’s a lot. Go into a men’s toilets and you’d be happy to wait, I’d be happy to wait. I’d be happy to identify as female

Steve:                                   Yeah you can.

Jeff:                                       well not I’m not I can’t do it Steve can’t do it?

Steve:                                   Can’t do it?

Jeff:                                       It’s not genuine but I can’t use a public toilet because of that. Yeah anyway.

Steve:                                   That’s amaze so like a work toilet is fine?

Jeff:                                       So long as I know the people that have been in there.

Steve:                                   Right.

Jeff:                                       Most people are filthy.

Steve:                                   Even after Matt’s gone in there?

Jeff:                                       Oh no that’s filthy I use the girls toilet so yeah I do identify as a female alright.

Steve:                                   Sure.

Jeff:                                       Anyway.

Steve:                                   It’s funny you mentioned those lumps on the legs and how did the woman get those, we can remove them now.

Jeff:                                       Yeah.

Steve:                                   Liposuction.

Jeff:                                       Wow master Segway very nice Stevo. So liposuction well this was the. This was the miracle this was modern medicine at its best right. When did do you know when liposuction first come to prominence?

Steve:                                   Sure 1921.

Jeff:                                       1921 wow?

Steve:                                   21 was the first liposuction procedure.

Jeff:                                       And did it catch on immediately or not?

Steve:                                   No there was a problem with it.

Jeff:                                       A lot of people dying I’d imagine, infection?

Steve:                                   Yeah it was just one guy who tried liposuction on a dancers legs, ’cause she you know was a dancer and she didn’t, now a days they use a hollow tube that’s about your little finger and they push it through your fat and it sucks it out.

Jeff:                                       Yeah, yeah.

Steve:                                   [crosstalk 00:47:54]. Yeah well what he did was he made a incision and he got a empty uterine curette. Which is like a spoon with a hole in it, that you grab, put up in the uterus sorry about this everyone apologies and you can remove scrape the uterus you know that sort of thing.

Jeff:                                       And he did that to her fat cells?

Steve:                                   He did that to her fat cells.

Jeff:                                       What happened?

Steve:                                   Well he removed the fat.

Jeff:                                       And?

Steve:                                   There was a bad infection and she had to have her legs amputated.

Jeff:                                       Yeah I was gonna say.

Steve:                                   Apart from that it died in the bud after that for a little while.

Jeff:                                       Yeah.

Steve:                                   You know until 1976.

Jeff:                                       Right, now let’s get to the real liposuction.

Steve:                                   Okay and that’s when the discovered they put this tube in and had a little sort of just powerfully sucked.

Jeff:                                       I’ve seen them do it Steve they not gentle.

Steve:                                   No Doctor Doug used to do it all day in his suit and he, used to lose heaps of weight.

Jeff:                                       And Doctor Doug is your father-in-law?

Steve:                                   Yip.

Jeff:                                       Yip. And he used to get in there and seriously men it looks harder than what I do the vacuuming at home.

Steve:                                   Oh yeah.

Jeff:                                       No seriously like they fully getting in there and like really grinding away with a good arm action. I mean it looks like it can do some serious damage to be honest.

Steve:                                   Well it does do some serious damage and there’s serious side affects but I guess the million dollar question is does it work? And of course it does because your in that with a jar of fat beside the bed that’s come out of your barrel whatever.

Jeff:                                       As Matt says he recons great opportunity for bio diesel.

Steve:                                   Absolutely. So does it work short term absolutely yes because it was there and now it’s there.

Jeff:                                       Yip.

Steve:                                   And that’s I totally understand that appeal.

Jeff:                                       Why?

Steve:                                   ‘Cause if you got a bit that’s hanging in there and you know [inaudible 00:49:26]. You don’t want to go for a run this morning I did I cheat that way.

Jeff:                                       Yeah.

Steve:                                   But if you wanted to get liposuction and spend thousands of dollars but it would end up in a jar at the end of the day.

Jeff:                                       I’ve heard Steve a lot of side effects where uneven so in other words that’s a big one.

Steve:                                   Yeah.

Jeff:                                       And some fat cells seem to almost magically reappear in a very short period of time too.

Steve:                                   Well I’ll get you back there, there was a study done on that, and whether it does reappear and basically they said in conclusion blah, blah, blah. They said however this lumpectomy which is removal of fat fact seems to subside after three months with weight and fat regain in the long term. So that’s what these big long term study are on lipo and after three months the body adapts and that was probably soon her big surgery 2019.

Jeff:                                       The body wants to do what the body wants to do and I mean obviously correcting the issue through diet and exercise.

Steve:                                   Yes.

Jeff:                                       Long term is a strategy.

Steve:                                   Yeah.

Jeff:                                       And look there are aids that you can use and your body maybe deficient in things which is obviously you know vitamins and minerals and other things I mean like tony she’s got the bloody trip to wan steel going on at the moment which is really affecting her ATP. But you know it’s good that she was able to do the OAT the test that, we have which is the Organic Acid Test and she was able to obviously discover that so then you can manage the condition. But for the average person who doesn’t change anything they expect to go on for surgery and that’s it. Well the body, the status quo the homeostasis how the body is used to responding storing fat in that area Stevo surely I mean I guess a lot of people go on with good intentions saying I’m gonna have lipo and I’m gonna change it I’m not gonna go back to the way that, I was problem is that if you haven’t done it before you not gonna, do it after.

Steve:                                   No, and this is the whole problem with this is that long term there is fat regain because the individual who is you know, and I’ve got some photos ill show you a bit later about unevenness and that sort of thing and well just describe them for people who listen but there’s so really problems with the side effect.

Jeff:                                       Yeah.

Steve:                                   And the fat does come back.

Jeff:                                       But unevenly and its probably that there are certain pockets where the fat doesn’t return.

Steve:                                   Yeah.

Jeff:                                       Then leads to a problem with symmetry if that makes sense you know. One leg can be smaller then the other.

Steve:                                   There’s a lot of that.

Jeff:                                       Or the leg looks unusual where it doesn’t form out properly.

Steve:                                   Yeah because a lot of people get there saddle bags for those sort of side of the legs. There’s lots of problems with that, the abdominal surgery is probably you know generally there’s not so many side affects but there’s some really serious complications with abdominal liposuction. I don’t know how to put this one over on the podcast we spoke about. How would you describe that on a podcast to the listeners?

Jeff:                                       Is that a hairy bean bag I’m looking at?

Steve:                                   That’s a hairy bean bag.

Jeff:                                       You asshole.

Steve:                                   Well how do you describe that?

Jeff:                                       He made me look at it.

Steve:                                   Don’t point it to the camera.

Jeff:                                       No no its a medical condition Steve.

Steve:                                   It is.

Jeff:                                       So look you know this is you put the warning at the front Stevo yeah.

Steve:                                   There’s this rating of this podcast now gone.

Jeff:                                       That is looks like Elephantiasis.

Steve:                                   Well it is Elephantiasis in the nuttiasis if you want to put it that way.

Jeff:                                       Yeah.

Steve:                                   I’s where you get swelling edema in the scroutem and they had draw 300 mills of fluid off the scroutem. So I had that and of course.

Jeff:                                       Look the funny thing is Steve, well not the funny thing ut the thing is people need to be aware of it.

Steve:                                   Yeah.

Jeff:                                       Just to because involves the testicals.

Steve:                                   Yeah.

Jeff:                                       You know or the you know the genitals of a male. We need to talk about these things.

Steve:                                   We do.

Jeff:                                       People need to be aware, but you got me because I wasn’t expecting that coming.

Steve:                                   There’s a woman’s abdomen heavily swollen. She entered the edema which is swelling after.

Jeff:                                       So.

Steve:                                   After liposuction and there’s also of course a lot of symmetry here where you get and it, I’ll just looks like it’s a more put this on the [inaudible 00:52:59]. You can see this side there where its been all sucked out.

Jeff:                                       Again guys your probably not gonna be able to see that really quickly but there’s a big deformity in that leg. And what’s really interisting on this one here, I think she actually looked pretty good before hand that’s that one there Stevo.

Steve:                                   Yeah.

Jeff:                                       I actually think she looks pretty good.

Steve:                                   Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jeff:                                       So you know I guess it’s funny isn’t it?

Steve:                                   It is funny and all required there is tone.

Jeff:                                       Yeah.

Steve:                                   I think that’s like going to the gym doing a few squats. Yeah I mean you gotta remember lipo is quite expensive and also it doesn’t last long times, so it doesn’t last a long time. I really you know shuts down so there’s.

Jeff:                                       And its certainly not a good time so I don’t know why you’d waste your money on it.

Steve:                                   It’s scary there is, there is some other evidence where they tested okay let say for those people that they lose a lot of fat, what happens cardiovascular risk factors. So they do a massive liposuction and suck up all the fat it doesn’t even help that. It says these data [inaudible 00:53:49] to remove all of the large amount of abdominal fat by using liposuction does not improve cardiovascular metabolic risk factors.

Jeff:                                       But Stevo we already know that because we know that subcutaneous fat is I mean it’s not great but it’s visceral fat.

Steve:                                   Yes.

Jeff:                                       It’s the fat that is round the organs that’s the dangerous stuff.

Steve:                                   That is and of course liposuction can’t get in there and suck that out.

Jeff:                                       No.

Steve:                                   You go in you can’t go threw the abdominal you know the rectus abdominis.

Jeff:                                       What’s interesting when you start excerising where does the body typically take the fat from first.

Steve:                                   Yeah there.

Jeff:                                       The visceral which is the dangerous one. The one that you can’t see.

Steve:                                   Yeah.

Jeff:                                       So and again this is why you just gotta presist and it’s gotta become a life style. It’s the same thing with dieting and all the ret of it, I mean I appreciate you know smart people and people who are in the industry might do dieting for a comp or for a show or something like that. They understand their body and their probably looking to you know shave off a few kilo’s, or they do it over a long period of time become sustainable. For the avarage person dieting isn’t gonna work you just need to change your lifestyle take a longer term view rather than go to extreme measures like that.

Steve:                                   Right now and all of these we’ll call extreme measures all the drugs and everything they are extreme but they the liposuction you know the fat grows back, the body adapts it just says okay now I need fat there because if you look and let’s say it works. Let’s say you get every single last fat cell of your gut and you it’s all gone. There’s no fat cells there then if you wanna put fat on again it goes somewhere else.

Jeff:                                       Yeah.

Steve:                                   And it will be acymetrical so you may get fat hips or something as a guy. SO you know you’ve just lost one area and it comes back another area. So it doesn’t work long term. So this leads ou on to the next surgery you can have if you want.

Jeff:                                       Yip.

Steve:                                   Is a gastric sleeving.

Jeff:                                       Well and look becoming more and more popular. What concerns me about gastric sleeving is that and this is from my uneducated opion steve, is that it seems to be happening younger and younger now. Like with some really young cases, without the ability and maturity to actually tackle the fat gaing threw other means and methods. And look you know as I said and it’s so funny and I keep saying this not against doctors we got some great doctors and nurses and heat care practitioners out there in the Western circles. There training isn’t that area so that’s what they know, they don’t look outside of that. There’s some great nutrisonisht and great dietashins and there are some really poor ones as well to but we’ve spoken about the fact that it’s multi facided. I mean you can look at the gut microbiom the changes to our food now, and the way that our thermoqutes are over running our baceteria duties and again I incourge you to go and listen to those podcast to hear about that.

The fact that we hardwired to seek out sugars and fats and salts you know the amount of food that’s out there that is like that. The over use of pesticides and it’s all disrupting and changing our, our bodies ability to be able to handle toxins it’s changing our gut microbiome and hormones are being affected xenoestrogens but you can’t look at just one thing and say right that’s the problem and ecpesially and I have a gret deal of sympathy for people who say excpesially when there genetically pre dispossession maybe there a endomorphic personality to start with.

There diet nutrison is poor maybe C-section babies so they didn’t get the inetial burst of bugs. There fitting an up hill battle and they say we’ll we tried this and we tried that. Yes we’ve tried dieting okay great there’s no other options you must go do a gastric sleeve and for my point and why we created the pod cast Steve is just to give people other mechanisims to exsaust every other angle before you go to an operation because especially with this once you do it and it’s pretty, I mean it’s pretty survere you cutting out a huge amount of your stomach.

Steve:                                   Yeah you know when your putting your sleeve over it there’s a few of them.

Jeff:                                       Oh well there’s that one to sorry.

Steve:                                   Yeah.

Jeff:                                       I just, we just need to educate people Steve so that they aware and just like we did with these drugs not for or against I mean again I would advise people against it but I mean you know so long as people have done the education. People need the education.

Steve:                                   They do.

Jeff:                                       They need this information.

Steve:                                   And especially when you got things subcart now sort of things you can take to lose a bit of fat of your waist. Yeha the visual fat it comes off with excirces but with this sleeves it’s a bit sad dichotomy in medicare in Australia where is you can’t get the weight loss surgery. We’ll call it gastric sleeving surgery and till your BMI reaches I think it’s 32 in other words you became quiet over weight. So people who go in ab=nd check and they go aawh I’m at 31 guess, what they do?

Jeff:                                       Go and eat?

Steve:                                   Go and eat.

Jeff:                                       Yeah.

Steve:                                   Yeah, to get fat so they qualify for the surgery.

Jeff:                                       Which ingrains into them a poor habit and also takes away a lot of accountability and look if you’ve had it and if you got friends. I’m not having a go because the problem is that education is not there Steve. It’s just and that’s what I’m saying it’s just one model. It’s like right if you hit this threshold great you can go and get surgery and your life’s gonna be a lot better for it.

Steve:                                   Yeah absolutely. So it’s a little bit scary that there’s that sort of disincentive to lose weight. It’s an incentive to put on weight so as you can get the procedure paid for. A little bit scary it also depending, on the long term follow up, a lot of people learn to ’cause you basically can’t drink much you know. You could drink that and a bit more and that will be a bad egg ’cause your stomachs full so you feel full quicker afterwards. Which sounds great but then you know you cans till have that as a coke a cola.

Jeff:                                       Well I was gonna say Steve my biggest concern and I hope you’ve got so stats here and I don’t know if you do. Sacropenia which is actually probably espesally if we get older sacropenia which is affectivly the loss of muscle.

Steve:                                   Muscle yeah.

Jeff:                                       It’s probably one of the hidden epidemics and I believe in Australia that sacropenia is actually becoming a disease this year. So like in the States I think its already 2016 I think it got listed as a disease.

Steve:                                   Disease yeah.

Jeff:                                       But here in Australia I think you were telling me that yesterday, is that correct?

Steve:                                   I was the sacropenia disease that’s why its called that when you lose muscle mass. It’s useally only reconised in people that are bed ridden for a long period of time or in wheelchair people they get you super sacropenia in there legs, but these people get sacropenia as well.

Jeff:                                       Exactly.

Steve:                                   ‘Cause they become protein diffiesnt because they struggle to eat protein.

Jeff:                                       And I’ll imgine as well too not only that that’s right ’cause if they gonna have something to eat well I know I’m gonna lose weight because of I can reduce calories you know I’m having ice cream and chocolate. Sure they might not be able to eat as much as they would, but then they missing out on all the vitamins, all of the polyphenols or the other nutrients that you need in your diet but you losing weight. And this is the whole astitcs movement versus healt movement and the stuff that we talk about. Yeah a lot is that yeah, yeah you might look amazing but what’s your true heath like and that’s what concerns me.

Steve:                                   It’s scary so, so you know gastric sleeving is, is either a good or bad idea depending on which angle you come from. Their are studies showing when I looked into it I found that they people who had some of them had follow ups and they’d lost a lot of weight which was good because mobirtly obese they were past 35 BMi’s.

Jeff:                                       Yip.

Steve:                                   And they got into the 20’s.

Jeff:                                       Yeah.

Steve:                                   Because they you know couldn’t eat anymore or much more so that’s that’s a win but I, you know look I’m a naturalist, so I’m gonna be bias. I’d rather people say right let’s work on your diet and exercise.

Jeff:                                       Sure.

Steve:                                   Instead of putting a sleeve over your stomach.

Jeff:                                       But I can hear a lot of people say, yeah, but I did stare [inaudible 01:00:53].

Steve:                                   Yeah.

Jeff:                                       But my problem is, you probably didn’t have all of the information you needed. But regardless Steve, even if people have done it, so let’s say people have done the gastric sleeve. Then you really, you need to go the other way with your food. You actually need to be more careful with what you eat rather than less.

Steve:                                   Yeah, of course.

Jeff:                                       Don’t go, hooray, all my problems are solved I can eat whatever I want and I’m not gonna get fat.

Steve:                                   That’s right.

Jeff:                                       But you need to think of your long term health, so you need to-

Steve:                                   Absolutely.

Jeff:                                       … be consuming high quality, high nutrition dense foods.

Steve:                                   Abso, you have to.

Jeff:                                       Not empty calories like junk food, chocolates and chips and popcorn and crap. You know-

Steve:                                   Absolutely.

Jeff:                                       … you need real food.

Steve:                                   Yeah, because if you eat a bit of junk food as a normal stomach person you can then have chips or something, dinner you can still have a meat and veg and-

Jeff:                                       Yip.

Steve:                                   You know nutrition wise, catch up.

So it’s a bit scary that they have this sort of, you know-

Jeff:                                       Free license almost.

Steve:                                   Pretty much.

Jeff:                                       It’s a bad mindset I think.

Steve:                                   It is.

Jeff:                                       That they can get into.

Steve:                                   And, instead of focusing on, they focus on all of a sudden weight and not body composition.

Jeff:                                       Yip.

Steve:                                   They need.

Jeff:                                       A start to [inaudible 01:01:53] lose muscle tissue, so they’re flabby fat, I mean yes they’re being wise to come down, but the problem is longterm, you lose that muscle tissue especially as you get older as well too. You’re gonna really miss it when you get older.

Steve:                                   Well, exactly and of course you go to the other end of the scale, the Mich Gulley’s of the world who are probably classically, and I’ll use the terms “overweight”, but they’ve got more muscle.

Jeff:                                       We know that the BMI doesn’t work for.

Steve:                                   Exactly.

Jeff:                                       You know for people on either end of the spectrum really but yeah, I know Matt hates the BMI when he measures.

Steve:                                   Oh, yeah I do too because it-

Jeff:                                       One size does not fit all.

Steve:                                   No absolutely so that’s, you know, gastric sleeve is a bit of an obvious one, but also-

Jeff:                                       Any other negative side effects Steven?

Steve:                                   Yeah, you get B12 deficiencies, most of them do.

Jeff:                                       Yeah right, that’s fascinating.

Steve:                                   Intrinsic factor which is required for B12 absorption.

Jeff:                                       Yip.

Steve:                                   And because they eating steakies or meats are not a good idea and they’re rich in B12.

Jeff:                                       Yip.

Steve:                                   So there’s multiple vitamin deficiencies, so if you’ve had it, get on a multi food or you know, something like that. Do otherwise-

Jeff:                                       Multi food doesn’t have B12 in it though Steve.

Steve:                                   No it doesn’t.

Jeff:                                       So, the thing is is that, it’s reabsorption that’s it, from the lower intestine.

Steve:                                   It is.

Jeff:                                       So, and again, it’s a natural process which seems to be being a bit disruptive now, I’m not a huge fan of synthetic vitamins long.Short term, the funny thing is I’ve spoken to people about this that come and said, look I’m taking this short of synthetic vitamin. For short term, if there’s an issue that your body needs to fix I’m actually for it.

Steve:                                   Yeah, it’s like a drug.

Jeff:                                       For short term, but long term food in nutrition should come from, you know, your vegetables and good quality you know, eating fresh and local.

Steve:                                   Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jeff:                                       In/or natural sources as a staple. When you’ve got something that’s a bit out, sure, a synthetic to create an affect, yes, but that’s the problem with B12 is, I think it’s probably gonna be synthetic, might be an idea for them.

Steve:                                   Absolutely yeah. I mean maybe, you may wanna take it sublingual or go to the doctor and get an injection. That’s what most of them do. And in the studies they say, make sure you give ’em B12 and I’m thinking to myself, B12 shots, what about the other B vitamins?

Jeff:                                       Well, what’s interesting though Steve, well that I think most of those can be get, ne taken from the diet but it’s actually about, and I probably need Matt to talk, ’cause he was talking me through the whole B12 process-

Steve:                                   Yeah, how to help.

Jeff:                                       And how it works in the body and it almost sounds like again, you’ve got men made intervention where you need another men intervention.

Steve:                                   Yeah.

Jeff:                                       To sort of, and it’s almost kind of a lot like the, we’ll give you this medication but the side effect is this, so we’ll give you this medication to manifest that.

Steve:                                   Ah.

Jeff:                                       And that’s got a side effect and so then you go down this myriad. You start off with one problem and you’re taking 24 medications because of the side effects to counteract one another.

Steve:                                   Yeah.

Jeff:                                       You’ve become a walking pharmacy.

Steve:                                   Absolutely, and that’s crazy.

Jeff:                                       And that’s the slippery slope that we, you know?

Steve:                                   It’s scary because this happens a lot, I mean there are medications not have B12 and many other vitamins, you know, the methotrexate noxia, folate’s and all sorts of, there’s all sorts of drugs, sulforaphane, that knocks out B12, B9 sorry folate. It’s really scary, but I mean, all these things that we have talked about today are all short-cuts or bad cuts or you know, sometimes maybe good cuts for some people.

But really it is very very scary, the whole process and what people do to lose that weight. You know from surgery to thousand dollars of liposuction to very dangerous drugs instead of diet and exercise. And this is what people do to go through ’cause you remember they go to a doctor from say the gastric banding and the doctors asking the the question, have you dieted and exercised, and they go, yes I have.

Jeff:                                       Yes tick the box.

Steve:                                   Tick a box, it’s not they don’t say well how?

Jeff:                                       Is is a qualify?

Steve:                                   Have you been to a naturopath?

Jeff:                                       Yeah.

Steve:                                   Have you, you know have you tried a ketogenic diet, have you tried you know going to a gym excising? You know ’cause these are all, following my opinion, vastly less dangerous than going under the knife, under a general anesthetic and getting gastric band surgery.

Jeff:                                       Yip.

Steve:                                   And it’s long term too.

Jeff:                                       And you know get your butt in the gym and lift some weights.

Steve:                                   Exactly.

Jeff:                                       I mean start changing your body competition, composition through making more lean muscle tissue which is gonna give you an increase to your basal metabolic rate.

Steve:                                   Yip.

Jeff:                                       You’re gonna burn calories while you’re in the gym as well too.

Steve:                                   Yip.

Jeff:                                       Find exercise that you enjoy, if you don’t wanna run, don’t run, go swim. If you don’t like swimming, take the dog for a walk.

Steve:                                   Yeah, anything.

Jeff:                                       And again, all these things are in combination are gonna help, but the problem is I think Steve is that people get confused, there’s not a lot of information out there, or there’s conflicting information.

Steve:                                   Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jeff:                                       And people get confused and they give up and they said, well I tried lemon juice diet, or I tried a I dunno, liquid diet, that didn’t work so therefore yeah I’ve tried it, done it all.

Steve:                                   Done it all.

Jeff:                                       Just give me the result.

Steve:                                   Yip, I’ve tried and I dunno how many people I’ve tried every diet, and you see it on like the extreme example if The Biggest Loser, the show. Where they take people who’ve tried every diet and all that sort of thing and then that first week they lose five kilo’s.

Jeff:                                       Yeah.

Steve:                                   You know, ’cause they’re made to exercise and made to eat well.

Jeff:                                       Yip.

Steve:                                   And they lose extraordinary amount of weight.

Jeff:                                       Still I have, the problem I have with The Biggest Loser is, it just looks at weight, it doesn’t look at body fat, so, this is the problem if you start training with weights specifically, your weight on the scale might stay the same, it may even increase slightly.

Steve:                                   Yeah.

Jeff:                                       But then all of a sudden, your metabolic rate’s kicking into a higher gear and you’re gonna start losing body fat.

Steve:                                   You’re increased uncoupling proteins. There we go.

Jeff:                                       Ah, anyway, Stevo anything else, I think we’ve covered sort of the major ones.

Steve:                                   That, that’s pretty cool I think that’s, it’s a lot of info, yeah.

Jeff:                                       Look, and the thing is that, we’ve said, at the end of the day you know, diet and exercise are the most important things. Quality nutrition through food is the most important things. Other little things that you can do that can help certainly obviously supplementation can help. Taking ice baths you know-

Steve:                                   Yeah.

Jeff:                                       Can help, getting good quality sleep, increasing growth hormone can help. Training with what ja, those are the sorts of things that you should focus on, which has, yeah, maybe a bit slower but, and takes a bit more effort on your part but they’re gonna have the most benefit to your overall health, they’re not dangerous for you and if you create a program longterm they are going to make significant improvements.

And taking something like an Amp, which has got the CLA in there, or a T432, yes the results may not be as quick as you know, taking some of this stuff, but the nice thing is you’re not gonna put your health at risk. In fact, if anything, you’re going to benefit. The T432 is a rich source of polyphenols which actually has a really good affect on gut health so, it’s multi-faceted, it’s not just targeting one thing and this is what natural and nature-drived health should look like.

Steve:                                   Absolutely and this is what it’s all about, so, you know hopefully today’s been an interesting lesson in what to do and what not to do? You know, it’s just to try all the options, not before you go down these pathways, the lipo’s, the gastric bands the powerful drugs Xenical, you know, which to get they, it’s common, it’s common.

Jeff:                                       I know it’s common, I know, because I think a lot of the time people look for the shortcut and ultimately yeah, especially in today’s busy society I think that, that’s the problem. I think people are going, and you show me Steve where low input, low activity, the least, the easiest path is not normally give you the best result. What’s that old saying, take the path less traveled because that’s where in life success comes.

Steve:                                   Exactly.

Jeff:                                       The hard yards as they say.

Steve:                                   Yeah.

Jeff:                                       Just think, what is the song that said, just think of sweat as your fat cells crying, you know. That’s the sort of stuff you need to do.

Steve:                                   Yes, that’s what we want to talk about. Yeah, ah no, that’s true, look it really is unbelievably true and the great thing about diet and exercise is they won’t make your testicles swell.

Jeff:                                       Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Steve:                                   That’s important, we have to get that message across because lipo can.

Jeff:                                       Yeah, no, not what we’re after.

Steve:                                   Rare cases, but you know, wouldn’t want that.

Jeff:                                       Alrighty Steve, do you wanna do some F.A.Q.’s?

Steve:                                   On that note. Let’s do them.

Jeff:                                       Okay, I’ll, a quick one again, guys really thank you so much for all the people that have gone out and given us some positive [inaudible 01:09:26] re viewings.

Thank you for the amazing knowledge on products, game changers, NOZ becomes entertainment. Complex info put into a language we can understand. Inside Designs.

So look thanks guys.

Steve:                                   That’s great.

Jeff:                                       The thing is I’m the one here to dumb it down as I say, Steve and Matt are obviously far more educated than I am, I’m here to sort of help to try and break it down.

Steve:                                   You do alright ay, like you know, you would know about our coupling codings.

Jeff:                                       I’ve, the thing is Steve, I’ve got what you would say a parrot or a rope learnt, so I know and I under, I’ve heard these things but I don’t understand them and I think that’s the difference. Think a lot of PT’s and supplement store owners and enthusiast’s sort of understand these things to an extent, and I’d probably be able to have a conversation with them but you can explain it, and you understand the method.

Steve:                                   Oh, how it works yeah, the mechanisms.

Jeff:                                       In the body, you know, from a true chemical pathway.

Steve:                                   Yeah.

Jeff:                                       Or hormonal pathway or energy pathway perspective and I don’t. So, as I say, I’ve got enough knowledge to make it dangerous, but hopefully enough to be able to break down the stuff that you guys are saying, we make it relatable.

Steve:                                   No, it’s great.

Jeff:                                       But thanks very much for that review guys and again, we really appreciate it if you’re giving some reviews, it means a lot. Okay, to some F.A.Q. Steven.

Steve:                                   Yes.

Jeff:                                       Okay, this one’s from Anonymous,

“Hi, love your work and what you’re doing and listening to the podcast, so many things just seem clearer. I’m hoping you may be able to help to see my symptoms picture more clearly than I or other people have, and provide some advice? I’m a 24 year old female in poor state of health and I have been for some time. I believe it stems from my gut, but I just can’t seem to fix it. I’m constantly bloated no matter what I eat, I don’t have regular bowel movements.

The bloating and distention that I experience is so significant that I can look pregnant. It’s extremely uncomfortable solid, hard to touch and usually I feel the need just to lay down. If I were to have a bowel movement, the distention goes away a fair bit, I also feel like there’s a lot of air causing this bloating but it’s trapped gas and I cannot relieve it. My constipation is not due to typical dry hard stools. It is irrelevant of the consistency. Everything just seems to sit there heavily and not move.

Also, I’m not sure if this could mean anything at all, but when I do get a bowel movement, it will only be first thing in the morning, and I have never gone at any other time. I have tried your GutRight product and MultiFood and at first I experience a lot less bloating and more bowel movement than usual, but though never more than once per day. However, as I got closer to the 10 days, I went back to how I was prior. This has happened with other things I’ve tried where it will see initial improvement and then revert back without changing anything. Other useful, other information that may be helpful. I usually have a prominent round bulge to the right of my bellybutton. I have been told that this is the location of my ileo.

Steve:                                   Oh, ileocecal valve.

Jeff:                                       Yip.

“Any thoughts on this? I do have a history of childhood antibiotic use, childhood illness and glandular fever in my late teens. I struggle to gain weight even with my large appetite. I used to have a regular to often painful periods and now haven’t had a period for six months. I eat healthy and strength train five times per week, but cannot gain muscle. Always cold and lethargic. I do feel stressed even though I really have nothing to stress about.

I often have painful joints and in particular I am fluidy in my knees when my bloating is at its peak, coincidence or not, or do I just sound crazy? Haha. I had an O.A.T., an Organic Acid Test and hair test done, which found, which I can forward to you, if you like? However, it was done about a year ago and I cannot afford to have it repeated. I have had bloods done by the GP, which came back normal except for CRP, that’s Creatine Reactive Protein.

Steve:                                   Ah, C-Reactive Protein.

Jeff:                                       “C-Reactive Protein, sorry. But I can’t remember what else was tested.”

Okay, so interesting.

Steve:                                   Very interesting.

Jeff:                                       There’s a lot of emotional stuff here just quickly on the feeling stressed bit and no reason for it, if the body’s under stress it’s obviously gonna be giving you those feelings of anxiety and-

Steve:                                   Exactly

Jeff:                                       … lack of ease.

I mean, dis-ease, if you break the word down, is a lack of ease.

Steve:                                   Yes.

Jeff:                                       So if your body’s under attack effectively. Stevo lots going on there.

Steve:                                   Lots going on.

Jeff:                                       What do you think’s happening?

Steve:                                   Alright the, we’ll work backwards a little bit. The first thing with raised CRP means an inflammatory marker in the c=body. It’s released from the liver when the body is under immune inflammation or stress. It’s usually an inflammatory marker, so there’s something going on.

Jeff:                                       Yip.

Steve:                                   Something infectious, something buggy.

Jeff:                                       It definitely sounds like it in the gut I mean if there’s that amount of distension.

Steve:                                   Yeah.

Jeff:                                       There’s, it sounds like there’s something pretty nasty.

Steve:                                   Jeff, there’s something really nasty.

Jeff:                                       Would you wanna see a stool test?

Steve:                                   Yeah, for her you would. The O.A.T. test is interesting but-

Jeff:                                       We should definitely get the results of that, so if you can send that through to us.

Steve:                                   I’d love to see it. Yeah, would love to have a look at that.

O.A.T. tests are fascinating.

Jeff:                                       Even though it’s a year ago Steve, but it doesn’t sound like a lot’s changed since then.

Steve:                                   No, and so she’s definitely got that going on in her body. CRP definitely means an infection of some kind, some sort of inflammation going on.

Jeff:                                       Yip.

Steve:                                   So I think that’s related to the gut and that’s why you get the distension because as you know gut bugs release gas and that can give ’em blocking and the most common place that these things become blocked, is the ileocecal valve.

Jeff:                                       Right.

Steve:                                   That’s a valve that’s between the ileum and the cecum, as the name suggests. So that valve could be have that blockage there and that’s where the infection. There could be a pocket of infection there.

Jeff:                                       Right.

Steve:                                   So she made, she’ll definitely need GutRight to get in there. I know she’s done a 10 day cleanse, she’ll probably have to do it two times.

Jeff:                                       Yeah, well, it’s interesting and as well to, just on that, and the funny thing is is that, some of the really nasty bugs there and I’ve spoken to Matt about this as well too, don’t just stop at 10 days, change the diet, I think that’ll definitely help.

Steve:                                   Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jeff:                                       And these things, little bastards will fight back.

Steve:                                   Yeah.

Jeff:                                       I mean, the 10 day challenge is really good for the average [inaudible 01:15:17] whose probably got a few nasty things in there. If you’ve got something a bit more serious, and look, you know what, we’re gonna send you out a whole heap, I’m gonna send you out three of the GutRight’s, so you can do, I reckon back-to-back 10 day cleanses, follow the diet as well too.

And also then take another one for the next month as well, at the same time, Stevo I wanna send out the Resilience because the Resilience has got some really powerful compounds in there that are great for your immune system, that will help definitely with inflammation but there’s some other beauties in there that are really gonna.

As I think when we released the Resilience, and if you can go back and listen to the podcast, it’s like the one-two uppercut, with the GutRight. The GutRight’s the one-two for 80 percent of the gut bugs that are out there but the Resilience has got some other things in there that will just. I forget which one it is Stevo.

Steve:                                   For which, for what?

Jeff:                                       For the Resilience, for killing off the rest of the gut bugs.

Steve:                                   Aah, look, the Reishi mushrooms are a classic.

Jeff:                                       The Reishi, but there’s the other one in the Resilience.

Steve:                                   Yeah, that’d be perfect too. Another thing, if you think about always been cold, lethargic and having, you know constipated a lot, it’s very thyroid related.

Jeff:                                       Okay.

Steve:                                   So she’s probably got hypothyroidism.

Jeff:                                       So.

Steve:                                   And that’s causing problems as well.

Jeff:                                       And certainly in the meantime send through the O.A.K. test.

Steve:                                   O.A.K. test.

Jeff:                                       So that we can have a look at that as well too because typically that will give us an indication of what’s not working in your body properly.

Steve:                                   Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jeff:                                       And from that we can sort of trace it back to potentially what it is.

Steve:                                   Absolutely this is, this is vitally important to that, so they go, oh but if we could get her some T432 too, that’d be terrific, ’cause her thyroid. And that helps the gut as well. That was a very good, you know it’s got rich in polyphenols too.

Jeff:                                       Nice.

Steve:                                   Yeah, the painful joints is because of raised C-Reactive Protein, CRP and that’s an inflammatory marker, so there’s definitely inflammation, probably going to, from the gut as well.

Jeff:                                       Yip.

Steve:                                   Like my arthritis in the knees was due to Klebsiella for example.

Jeff:                                       Yeah, sure.

Steve:                                   Hers could be something totally different.

Jeff:                                       And definitely obviously while you’re doing the 10 day challenge, jump onto the website and follow the diet, as recommended there as well too.

Steve:                                   Yip.

Jeff:                                       So, you know, stay away from those starchy-

Steve:                                   Very much so.

Jeff:                                       … carbohydrates, really important.

Steve:                                   That’s important. Yeah.

Jeff:                                       Yeah.

Steve:                                   Well that’s good.

Jeff:                                       Yeah.

Steve:                                   Good Luck with the Anonymous.

Jeff:                                       No worries, well we’ll send that out to you. I’m confident that you and Matt would both recommend our app so.

Steve:                                   Oh yeah. Absolutely.

Jeff:                                       Okay. And with the Resilience Steve, I say GutRight, do the 10 day challenge back-to-back, so two of them.

Steve:                                   Yip

Jeff:                                       And I, with the Resilience Stevo, for this, would you recommend doing that three times a day as well too?

Steve:                                   Three times, definitely because-

Jeff:                                       So, two capsules-

Steve:                                   … three times.

Jeff:                                       The same time that you take the GutRight, take two of the Resilience each time you do that as well.

Steve:                                   That’d be awesome.

Jeff:                                       Excellent, okay, no worries.

Steve:                                   Cool.

Jeff:                                       This one’s from Sarah.

“Hi Guys, really like some advice from yourself. I’m 10 months post partum and really have no libido. My period returned six months post partum, but I have been bleeding, spotting, every two weeks on ovulation. Several months ago I’ve been experiencing nausea and a lot of fluid retention from ovulation up until the actual period and tender breasts. I sleep 6.5 to eight hours per night and I generally have plenty of energy each day. I’m active six days per week, either doing yoga, swimming, some light weights and walking.

I’m 172 centimeters tall at 69 kilo’s, my pre-baby weight. I would say my stress levels are low, but my husband sometimes works away so I’m on the go continuously looking after the baby and the house. And every five weeks approximately, for a week at a time. I have mild anxiety that I control with exercise and breathing techniques and meditation. I eat a wholefoods diet, high in good fats, low to moderate in carbohydrates, moderate in protein, maybe low, maybe a little bit low on protein. I eat dairy-free, low gluten and low FODMAP.

I take MultiFood, GutRight, ZMST and Resilience and have, these have really helped my sleep and energy levels I feel. I also have not had any colds, bugs or flu’s since I started taking them. Since my baby was born and I think it could be due to your magic pills. I also take iodine, zinc supps and here an energy product and an iron supplement. My main issue is that I want to have some drive again. I would like to get my cycle regular again and be fertile for making baby number two.

Any advice and recommendations on what to take too would be so appreciated. Love your products and podcast. Longterm fan.



Steve:                                   It’s an interesting-

Jeff:                                       I mean, can I just go through what she’s taking again Stevo.

Steve:                                   She’s taking MultiFood.

Jeff:                                       Yip.

Steve:                                   GutRight, ZMST and Resilience.

Jeff:                                       No Alpha Prime or Alpha Venus among us.

Steve:                                   And no, no, no hormone.

Jeff:                                       And I don’t know Stevo, you’re the expert here, but I’m thinking probably Prime.

Steve:                                   Well.

Jeff:                                       Would you recommend Prime over Venus, or maybe both?

Steve:                                   Weirdly both, and I’ll explain why? Because, she’s getting tender breasts and with this sort of thing and she’s having no libido. I think she’s got high prolactin levels from her post partum baby. So, I’m hoping she’s not breastfeeding, I couldn’t see that anywhere there. I’m gonna assume she’s not breastfeeding at 10 months, so therefore Venus would be great to reduce the prolactin, increase the Dopamine, which increases progesterone.

Jeff:                                       Ah-hah.

Steve:                                   Which will be fantastic for periods and also getting her libido back and Prime at night.

Jeff:                                       I was gonna say, Prime makes you into a horny little beast.

Steve:                                   It does and I’m sure she appreciates that, but it also detoxifies the estrogen, increases testosterone and very much will help her sleep, even though she’s sleeping pretty well, so you know, Venus in the morning.

Jeff:                                       Yip.

Steve:                                   You know, three in the morning and Prime at night, three, and that’s just absolutely perfect for her.

Jeff:                                       Yeah, so three Venus first thing in the morning.

Steve:                                   Yip.

Jeff:                                       From waking or with breakfast.

Steve:                                   Yip.

Jeff:                                       And then three Prime with the evening meal or maybe half an hour to an hour before going to bed.

Steve:                                   Absolutely ’cause it frees up the testosterone for the libido and it reduces the prolactin, the Venus does. It’s a good one.

Jeff:                                       The interesting thing, I love it, and you can see there obviously with regards to, I was surprised that there’s no Venus in there, ’cause those would be the products-

Steve:                                   Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jeff:                                       That would help straight away. The nice thing is as well too, is that the monksberry or whatever it is that’s in the Venus.

Steve:                                   Yeah.


Jeff:                                       Chasteberry yeah, doesn’t actually have a negative effect to libido as they think.

Steve:                                   No.

Jeff:                                       It will definitely have an improvement in serotonin levels, now.

Steve:                                   Yes.

Jeff:                                       Strangely enough we do have a few people, when they first start it, if your serotonin levels is low is that they get low-grade headaches when they first start.

Steve:                                   Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jeff:                                       Because you’re all of a sudden getting a rush of serotonin.

Steve:                                   And dopamine.

Jeff:                                       And dopamine. So, just be, yes, dopamine isn’t it? It’s the dopamine.

Steve:                                   Yeah, it’s the main one for headaches yeah.

Jeff:                                       So just be aware that if that does happen, back off the Alphe Venus down to maybe you know, one to two capsules and do that for a week and then slowly up it to you three capsules in the morning.

Steve:                                   It’s important she gets that one, ’cause she’s getting the estrogen’s been floating around, we gotta get rid of that, the excessive amounts. And the Venus and Prime will both do that.

Jeff:                                       And will help the progesterone.

Steve:                                   Exactly Venus for progesterone and the Prime for the testosterone.

Jeff:                                       Well the Prime though, funnily enough with the Prime was the original, we actually created the Prime before we called it the Venus. And we actually changed the name over and confused everybody but there was a reason why we did that. The Alpha Prime we consider to be the first true female testosterone booster.

Steve:                                   Yeah.

Jeff:                                       It’s excellent for helping to build lean muscle tissue, ’cause females need testosterone as well.

Steve:                                   Course they do.

Jeff:                                       But it regulates it to work with the bodies natural production.

Steve:                                   Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jeff:                                       What we’ve found a lot is that it’s excellent for libido, especially taking three capsules before bed, absolutely fantastic to improve that, to improve that situation and it’ll be really interesting to see how you go. I will, I’m gonna send you out two of both, so I want you to do it for.

Steve:                                   Yeah.

Jeff:                                       For you know a couple of months. Give it a good long stint, but I’m hoping within 30 days, within a cycle period, that that should all start sorting itself out Steve.

Steve:                                   Absolutely it will. I mean, it’s fantastic, it really is good and you know, apart from that she seems pretty healthy, she’s got her life together. She eats well, she exercises well, breathing, meditation, I think it’s fantastic.

Jeff:                                       Perfect.

Steve:                                   Yeah, that’s great.

Jeff:                                       We thanks Sarah.

Steve:                                   Good one. Yeah, thanks Sarah.

Jeff:                                       Alright guys that’s all that we’ve got time for today. Alright, and thanks everyone for listening.

Steve:                                   Yes.

Jeff:                                       And we’ll be back next week.

Steve:                                   Okay.

Jeff:                                       Alright.

Steve:                                   See you guys.

Jeff:                                       Bye.