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Episode 197 – Asthma, It’s not easy being Wheezy!

In this episode of the ATP Project – Asthma – It’s not easy being wheezy, Matt, Jeff, and Steve talk about Asthma. The guys talk about what causes it, what drives it, the different types of Asthma and what to do if you suffer from it.

00:01:10 – Start
00:02:06 – What is Asthma
00:03:02 – Injections of adrenalin and caffeine
00:03:55 – Traditional Chinese remedies
00:05:36 – bronchoconstriction
00:08:55 – butanol – fat loss and muscle gain
00:12:26 – Symptoms of asthma
00:14:01 – Goats milk
00:15:27 – Sex difference with asthma
00:18:07 – DHEA
00:19:31 – Immune system
00:23:34 – The role of the microbiome in Asthma
00:27:12 – Herbs for Asthma
00:27:54 – Bugs and Asthma
00:29:45 – Antibiotics
00:31:26 – CLA
00:34:18 – Cytochrome P450
00:38:46 – Parasites and low rates of Asthma
00:40:05 – Treatments
00:42:09 – Causes of Asthma
00:48:25 – Defending against Asthma and Herbs
00:53:12 – Foods and anti-asthma
01:05:40 – iTunes review
01:06:30 – FAQ-01
01:15:31 – FAQ-02

Transcript: 

Jeff:                       Asthma is a condition that affects around 10% of the population at some time during their life. This scary illness restricts breathing and can cause huge distress and even death in a lot of individuals, and what we know about asthma is it’s on the rise in Western cultures. So, today Matt, Steve and Jeff are going to discuss what causes it, what drives it, the different types of asthma, but most importantly what we can do about it if you suffer with this asthma. So, sit back and enjoy.

As always this information is not designed to diagnose, treat, prevent or cure any condition and is for information purposes only. Please discuss any information on this podcast with your health care professional before making any changes to your current lifestyle. Stay tuned, the ATP Project is about to start.

Speaker 2:           Welcome to the ATP Project. Delivering the irreverent truth about health, aging, performance, and looking good. If you are sick and tired of being sick and tired, ready to perform at your best, or somewhere in between, then sit back, relax, and open your mind as Jeff and Matt battle the status quo and discuss everything health related that can make you better.

Matt:                     Welcome to the ATP Project. You’re with your hosts Matt, Steve and Jeff, good day guys.

Steve:                   Good day.

Jeff:                       How you going?

Matt:                     We’re talking about asthma today, or as Steve wanted to call it, leaving you breathless. I’m so glad that you don’t get to choose.

Steve:                   I know. But seriously I’ve got a lot of talent in making up names.

Matt:                     Leaving you breathless.

Steve:                   Leaving us breathless.

Matt:                     Yeah, you don’t get to name them Steve-o.

Steve:                   No, I’m banned. I’m restricted, I understand that. But it was funny because asthma is on the increase, which is weird because it’s considered sort of … has got a genetic basis. Now genes don’t change that much so, the fact that it’s on the increase is really quite strange. I mean, We kind of know why but it’s really a product of the modern environment isn’t it? You’re hearing about the hygiene hypothesis?

Matt:                     Yeah.

Jeff:                       Yeah. Before we get into that though, we need to break it down specifically. What is asthma? I know that it’s an issue with regards to oxygen transfer in the lungs, would that be correct?

Steve:                   Oh, not so much transfer. It’s to do with the bronchioles which are the tubes that lead to the little tiny things called the alveoli in the end of the lungs, where the oxygen transfer takes place. So it’s the tubes getting to the alveoli which is a little part-

Jeff:                       Right, and what do they, restrict? Close up?

Steve:                   They do three things. They constrict, there’s bronchospasm which is the muscular thing and then there’s secretion of mucus there, and then there is also inflammation there. So, there’s three parts to the bronchial problems. And so they all have different pathophysiologies, and unfortunately with medications nowadays there’s some that treat just one of them. Like the … everyone knows what a puffer is, don’t they?

Jeff:                       Yeah.

Matt:                     Yeah.

Steve:                   That’s a beta-2 adrenergic agent which stimulates the beta receptors, which is like the adrenaline receptors, in the bronchioles, which just dilate the bronchioles. It doesn’t affect the mucus per se but it just dilates the bronchus. You get more air and you don’t die so they’re not bad. But before that, in the early ’20s they developed … they synthesized adrenaline and they used to just inject people with adrenaline.

Jeff:                       Wow.

Matt:                     Hey, you wanna know interesting story about that sequence of events? So after they did the injections of adrenaline they realized that they could induce the same adrenal activation by injecting caffeine.

Steve:                   Yes.

Matt:                     And so what they started doing, they did this very interesting trial where they injected aminophylline into people’s butt cheeks to dilate the bronchioles. And an interesting side effect they noticed in their trials was at the injection site in the butt cheeks, all the fat disappeared. And that was the initial research that led to the ability for transdermal caffeine targeting subcutaneous fat tissues. So, it’s where the aminophylline base theory of caffeine to treat cellulite came from. It was actually a trial injecting caffeine for asthma.

Jeff:                       Yeah right.

Steve:                   I love it.

Matt:                     The asthmatics out there know that if you are ever in really big trouble and no puffers or anything around you make a strong black coffee and you can get a similar dilation into the bronchioles and that sort of stuff.

Steve:                   Well ephedra as well too.

Matt:                     Ma Huang was the traditional Chinese medicine treatment for asthma,

Steve:                   … asthma …

Matt:                     which is pseudo ephedrine.

Jeff:                       Which obviously helps-

Steve:                   And that was published in 1500 so they’ve known about it for a long time. They drank this stuff and their asthma improved and they didn’t know why or they didn’t know about adrenaline and androgenic receptors but that’s what adrenaline does. It breaks down fat as you mentioned. When you’re running you want your bronchioles to dilate to get more oxygen and that’s what it does.

Matt:                     And the side effect of the systemic adrenaline in caffeine though is palpitations and heart stress. So that’s why now they make them into a puffer. So that way you can activate the adrenal receptors in the bronchioles and as it’s constricted you get a bigger dose there. And then locally it works.

Jeff:                       Well it’s funny we were just talking about this the other day as a side note like I’m my heart monitor now with doing more running, Steve-

Steve:                   Yes, good on you.

Jeff:                       … for football. And my resting heart rate at the moment is shameful, about 65, because I’m not particularly fit but it was down in the high 40s, my resting heart beat last year when I was playing football. And that’s pretty good. As soon as I have a coffee, my heart beats per minute jumps about 20 beats per minutes. Just having a coffee.

Steve:                   Yeah.

Matt:                     So that’s why they put those compounds into the local spray to avoid the heart, avoid the adrenals and get it  directly into the bronchioles. What Steve was saying basically with asthma, these are the main things you gotta look at. Some things can create the muscles to spasm and cramp. We’ll talk about what does that but that’s a part  of asthma. They’re the typically, the people that’ll spontaneously just get this wheezing and this tightness and they’re constantly needing to cough but there’s nothing productive, they’re just having this little cough, cough [phonetic 00:05:30]. They feel this need to constantly do that sort of stuff because they’re not getting adequate air and that’s a sign of bronchocostriction. And that’s the one that the Ventolin can quickly open up.

Alternatively, if you get inflammation into the mucus, associated with a flu or an infection or something or an allergy or an overgrowth of a parasite anywhere in the body, you can get inflamed mucus membranes. And of course with inflamed mucus membranes they swell. So the swelling of that membrane then can also narrow the tubes. So if you have a swollen, inflamed membrane and then you get bronchiole constriction, you get an aggravated thing.

Then the third aspect is just straight out obstruction with phlegm and catarrh or snort or whatever you wanna call it. What happens here is you just get a bulk amount of mucus that coats the area. And then you have some problems. So I’m gonna try to hopefully today help people work out which one is them. Because the symptom picture  for each looks very different.

So it’s very obvious someone’s got massive amounts of catarrh-like phlegm and crap sitting in the lower lungs, just congestion in the lower lungs. They’re rattly, they’re coughy, they’re wheezy. It’s worse when they lie down because it starts to full up their chest. They’re the sort of people, they’re not so bad when they go home but as soon they lie down and postural changes they suddenly get it.

Big link in with that also with acidic mucus and gut reflux and that sort of stuff. So you’ll find these people will have a build up of mucus the whole way through the digestive tract, tendency to looser stools, tendency to indigestion, tendency to heartburn, gastroesophageal reflux. And then they have this constant rattling in the chest, which they can actually, they know there’s some stuff in there. The doctors will listen on the back of their chest and listen to them breathing and hear the tacky stuff rattle. So you know if that’s you.

Some of the people that have the inflamed mucous but not a stupid amount of phlegm and slime in their lungs, one of the key features of that is sensitive to temperature changes. So what happens is someone’s got a layer of inflamed mucous and so a bit of a layer of mucous across their mucosa with an inflamed, swollen membrane. As cold air comes in the mucous actually gets cold. The temperature changes in the mucous quite quickly so then what happens is the body goes, right, well if we constrict the bronchioles and we compress the air, what happens is we’re going to heat it and we’re gonna create moisture.

Cold, dry air is a bad thing for asthma because the only way the body can protect you from cold, dry air is through bronchiole constriction and mucous production ’cause we want to heat the air and add a bit of moisture to it so that way it works better on our lungs. With the bronchoconstriction people, usually you’ll find these people, it’ll be a spontaneous thing, common with sport induced asthma and that sort of stuff as well. But they’ll get this, just this spontan- … there won’t be catarrh, there won’t be rattling, but they’ll have this wheeze, you’ll hear the friction, and you’ll hear the resistance in the breathing as their air’s trying to fit through these constricted bronchioles.

And typically one of the ways they confirm the constriction is by the treatment. So, for example if it’s relieved with a Ventolin spray, which is salbutamol, is that?

Steve:                   Yeah, salbutamol. Yeah.

Matt:                     Yeah, so if it’s relieved by that, then you know it’s a bronchoconstriction or if coffee does make a big difference and that sort of stuff then you know that it’s a bronchoconstriction more than an inflammation.

Steve:                   Can I just tell you a very quick funny story about that, the butanols? The class of drugs.

Matt:                     Yeah.

Steve:                   When I first started working here, this is two years ago, about, I found out that a lot of athletes were taking clenbuterol, which is an anti-asthma drug, they’ve measured it-

Matt:                     For horses.

Steve:                   Well it’s for horses mainly, but in some countries it’s for humans too. It’s not FDA approved, but in some countries it’s an S4. And I thought, what the bloody hell are all these athletes? And great they’ve got asthma and they’re competing really well. I was telling Alice this the other day and when I found out what they’re taking it for-

Matt:                     Fat loss.

Steve:                   Fat loss and muscle gain. It’s a non-steroidal way of doing it. I went, really, I didn’t know that. And so these uses of these drugs, you were talking about injections in the butt, it just amazes me that there’s such innovation of, they understand pathophysiology, it does this. And they use these drugs for different purposes. Fantastic.

Matt:                     Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Jeff:                       The cool thing about body builders, really, is that they are right on the cutting edge of experimental science and they’re not afraid to use themselves. Unfortunately sometimes we’ve seen things go to the extreme, but they’re very smart. A lot of them really have worked out, obviously, what’s going on with the pharmacokinetics and how that works.

Matt:                     There’s a lot of trial and error. You gotta realize, too, that there are processes that have been in practice for over 20 years and I’ve been talking to a couple of our athletes about, for example, growth hormone and insulin interactions, and thyroid interactions, and finding out that the standard protocols, the new research shows that the thyroid growth hormone interaction, it looks like it’s been done wrong. But it’s still being done that way. But they get great data out of it, you get great data but man, I tell you what, there’s some big opportunities.

And the reason why there’s bugger all information on this sort of stuff is because there seems to be this weird concept in orthodox medicine that you can’t prevent disease, you gotta wait until they got the disease and then give them the cholesterol medication or diabetic medication. But if they used the tools that they had in the medical practice to actually control body composition, you could prevent that stuff. They seem to think prevention through body composition with hormonal manipulation and metabolism manipulation and that sort of stuff is wrong and evil, but waiting for someone to get fat and sick and then giving them a cholesterol medication for the rest of their life or a lap-band surgery or a diabetic medication for the rest of their life is responsible and good.

The funny thing is, it’s a big jump to get from where they are, most of the time, to where we’re thinking because they can’t even get their head around it. But it’s wrong, you know.

Steve:                   It’s worse now with joint surgeries where Dr. Doug does. If their knees aren’t bad enough, they reject them for surgery. They say, come back in a year and we’ll check if it’s worse and we’ll repair it then.

Jeff:                       Yeah. These sort of things … I don’t like that philosophy. I’d rather say, “Hey, why don’t you help repair the joint with simple glucosamine or something,” whatever they want to pick but it’s really anything.

Matt:                     No, we’ll make it get worse. We’ve gotta wait for it to get worse because I’m a surgeon.

Steve:                   [inaudible 00:11:52].

Matt:                     That’s the trick of asking a surgeon a question, the answer is surgery.

Jeff:                       I wanted to throw something in really quickly. My nephew has asthma but the interesting thing is is that he actually develops a little cough. And the real scary thing is is that my sister in law, his mum, used to say to the teachers, “Look, you know, if he develops a cough call me straight away because obviously this can lead into something quite bad.” Teachers leave him for a whole day, “Oh yeah, he’s had a bad cough.” Left him the whole day. Winds up in hospital, effectively that night and for the whole of the next day. So, these symptoms are really important, I think, for people to understand even if it’s not yourself.

Matt:                     And get on quickly.

Jeff:                       Yeah, get it quick.

Matt:                     I’ll show you some tricks too. But asthma, seriously, every one of us in this room and everyone listening will have a story relating to asthma. Me personally, that was the reason why I became a naturopath, from, apparently, my whole childhood that I don’t remember, I was in hospital a lot of it with asthma and eczema. Up until the ages of seven and that sort of stuff it was a big problem for me. And the medication that I was used that created a lot of long term health complications. And even the other little things. The simple fact that the doctors say that your asthma is triggered by dairy but if you don’t have calcium you’re gonna get osteoporosis, so let’s keep you on the dairy, we’ll manage your treatment with prednisone and then you end up with osteoporosis from the prednisone and you spend your whole life chasing calcium, which you realize that it was in all the other foods other than dairy anyway.

Jeff:                       Spinach.

Matt:                     The broccoli, the nuts and the seeds, and all the other alternatives, would have been adequate supplies of dairy for that. But that’s a common thing.

Jeff:                       Calcium.

Matt:                     Calcium, yeah. You see that this insistence of having the milk from another animal and that sort of stuff can actually, is a big thing for other children to understand. In my instance I reacted badly to lactose. It created a lot of inflammation and just straight out phlegm and mucus. So, what they did then is they said, “Oh well, cow’s milk is a big problem for you. What we’ll do, we’ll switch you over to goat’s milk.” Well, goat’s milk has got the same amount of lactose in it except it tastes like a stinky ass of a weird animal. They make you drink that all the time.

Jeff:                       It does come from a weird-

Matt:                     Seriously, I can’t even … the wife bought a goat’s milk soap the other day and I’m in the shower having like … freaking out, going, “This reminds me of hospital.”

Jeff:                       You got those canapes that I got watching the [crosstalk 00:14:07]. We got there and we were, Toni and I, absolutely starving and going around with a plate of canapes and we were hoeing them down like, basically inhaling them. We’re [inaudible 00:14:17] ’cause we went to see Cirque du Soleil. We got round they gave us this new one and we grabbed that, it was like, “Yum,” put it into the mouth and I’m chewing it and I’m going, “That’s not right. That’s just not good.” And Toni and I are both sort of looking at each other and I said, “You know what that tastes like? It tastes like I’ve just licked a goat’s sweaty back.” And Toni was just … this thing, yeah. Anyway, I can’t stand that but-

Matt:                     That happened to me first time we went to America from Australia. You know, like 14 hour flight for anyone that’s never done it. And then they brought out, “Hey, would you like a little quickie?” And I said to the hoster, “Yeah. Hell yeah.”

Jeff:                       Hang on, hang on.

Matt:                     And then I realized it was a quiche.

Jeff:                       Oh, right, okay. Good.

Matt:                     But it was made with goat’s cheese and I just [inaudible 00:14:51] it, and I’m just like … I actually had to spit it out and hide it.

Steve:                   Goat’s cheese with duck eggs.

Jeff:                       That’s probably your thing.

Matt:                     Oh, duck eggs [inaudible 00:15:00] vomit.

Jeff:                       Anyway, so the little boy that … my little one’s just out of prep this year, which is before grade one, and one of the other kid’s parents that we’ve become friends with is a doctor and, you know, talking about how bad kids are with eating and he goes, “Yeah, I’m really worried about my boy because all he’s eating at the moment is lots of protein, meats, fruits, and vegetables and he won’t touch his milk or his bread.” It’s just like …

Matt:                     But we’re trying to do with it.

Jeff:                       It’s so funny.

Steve:                   That’s the holy grail of …

Matt:                     That’s crazy.

Steve:                   It’s a great segue into … ’cause there is a sex difference when kids get asthma. More boys get asthma when young but actually more girls get post-puberty asthma, ’cause there’s a sex difference. It’s very interesting because boys’ lungs develop a lot slower than girls’ lungs and also they have narrower bronchioles when they’re growing so they are more prone to asthma but they don’t really know why. They know that puberty, testosterone is highly protective against asthma.

Matt:                     And we’ve also seen that within the menstrual cycles. A lot of women that suffer from asthma and it’ll … different stages of the menstrual cycle will flare up. Typically, in the first half of the menstrual cycle they experience more asthma and then, getting towards the pre-menstrual stages when their bronchioles free up. So, what we’re finding, the link that we’re seeing is estrogen.

Estrogen is proliferative straight away. The higher estrogen in the early life, that’s why women develop faster because estrogen’s the most anabolic thing. It can grow you faster. What actually happens with estrogen when it continues to do that is it increases mast cell degranulation, which basically means your immune cells are more likely to release chemicals like histamine. They’re more likely to release allergic inflammation. And the allergic inflammation is what causes the bronchoconstriction and it also causes the mucus generation. Estrogen amplifies that.

Another thing that happens around menopause and typically peri-menopause, is about five to ten years before the estrogen drops the androgens drop. Progesterone usually drops first so, coming into menopause, as their progesterone drops all of a sudden they can start getting asthma. And so, you’ll often see the diagnoses of asthma, like Steve-o was saying, post-puberty, more in the women, and the blokes seem to start to disappear.

They always talk about blokes in seven year cycles and that sort of stuff where the first seven years we’re in trouble and then the next seven years it seems to even out, and then when we hit puberty things change again, so fourteen to twenty one. So, asthma, there’s always this weird-ass story about that, the seven year cycles with asthma, where it can be there for seven years, disappear for seven. It’s a strange little process but I don’t understand it totally.

But, with the hormones that’s what you’ll find because they’re even finding big links now with oral contraceptive pills, HRTs, anabolic steroids, exogenous treatments. The androgens actually protect and offset the estrogen’s ability to be bronchoconstrictive and the estrogen’s ability to create mucus. The androgens, mainly that they talk about is progesterone and testosterone but a pretty cool little treatment strategy that they’re researching now is DHEA. DHEA is an androgen.

Steve:                   Which is banned here.

Matt:                     Yeah, unless you get a doctor’s prescription. But what I used to do in my naturopath clinic is, I used to measure the ratios between cortisol and DHEA to look for adrenal status. And what you’d find … for example, cortisol and DHEA both come from the adrenal cortex and they’re both made from exactly the same stuff. The difference is cortisol is a anti-inflammatory but is also immune suppressant. DHEA is anti-inflammatory but can actually support the anti-infectious immune system and reduce allergic inflammations.

DHEA, as an androgen, is very powerful. But if you look at the ratios between cortisol DHEA … usually the best time to do it is a blood test or a saliva test first thing in the morning, eight am, saliva’s the best if you want to look at cortisol ’cause you don’t get that white coat syndrome unless you’re nervous about doing your test at home and you’re giving that to yourself. But, cortisol DHEA ratios are very interesting ’cause if you look at the immune system being like a seesaw, one side kills infections, the other side flushes allergies, if the immune seesaw is polarized where you’re anti-infectious defense is down and your allergic inflammation is up … and by the way don’t let me forget to come back to this ’cause this is how we’re born.

We’re born with no anti-infectious defense and only allergic inflammation. And we’re born sterile. And as we fill up with bugs we’re supposed to increase our anti-infectious and our allergic inflammation’s supposed to disappear. The whole problem with asthma is they’re stuck that way. So, they’ve started that way and now they’re polarized that way. If your immune seesaw is stuck where your infectious defense is suppressed and your allergic inflammation is high, that’s what creates asthma. Even when you get an infection, even when you get an exposure, your body only has one way to respond and that’s allergic inflammation ’cause it never developed that T helper 1.

If you look at the ratios between cortisol and DHEA, cortisol, if your immune system is stuck and polarized with no T helper 1, too much T helper 2, what cortisol does or what prednisone does, which is the drug version of cortisol, it just drops the seesaw. It suppresses your immune system but it doesn’t balance out the sides of the seesaw. What that does is, it takes the swelling and the inflammation out of the bronchioles and allows you to … and they’re usually the little red puffers or the preventative, they call them preventative, you’re inhaling prednisone to take the swelling out of your lungs. But, because what it does is it just drops or suppresses the immune system without fixing up the ratios, that predisposes you to infection. So, what happens then is you take the prednisone, it takes away the swelling but it also switches off your immune system in the process. You then go back out into the real world and you’ve got an infection. So then they give you antibiotics and that sort of stuff to treat the infections, which wipes out the bacteria that you’re trying to build to actually balance out your immune system.

What’s interesting about that is we are born predisposed to asthma and eczema and we need microbiome, we need bugs, to challenge our immune system and we need breast milk and that sort of stuff to support that mucosa and to support those microbiome. By the ages of two we should have established pretty much the, what do they call it, the footprint or the fingerprint or whatever, established a bacteria microbiome profile that we’re supposed to carry on for the rest of our life. That microbiome profile is supposed to come from your mother, it’s supposed to come from the mother’s skin and the outside of the foods and all that sort of stuff. But if you realize that there’s a large section of children getting born C-section, they don’t get the mouthful of bugs on the way out, there’s a large section of-

Steve:                   They don’t get breast milk, they get formula.

Matt:                     Yeah, exactly and Steve-o was mentioning the hygiene hypothesis. There are people getting taught to sterilize everything and even leave the bleaches and everything on it to make sure nothing falls on it. So, these kids are constantly sterilizing. Now, we have a microbiome in our lung that has a massive impact on this. I’ll tell you what’s really interesting. They’ve found some very interesting links in regards to the microbiome with obesity and also the same microbiome that causes asthma. Guess what? Firmicutes, in particular Streptococcus in your throat, they’re the ones that are the main contributors of asthma and lungs. So, a lot of those typical ingredients we’ve got to regulate in the microbiotics in the gut, they can go through and help to regulate … or a lot of the microbiome that relates to the microbiome in your lungs, ’cause it’s actually the microbiome-

Steve:                   Not just your gut.

Matt:                     No, no, no. It’s the whole way down pretty much. Pretty much all the mucous membranes other than your bladder and your … it’s the just the bladder really.

Steve:                   Yeah, there’s not many places where there’s no bugs. I mean, there’s about 2000 colony [inaudible 00:22:44] in your lungs, which is about the same amount as in your small intestine. So, we got a lot of bugs in our lungs and that sort of thing and Strep is a bad one, and Strep pneumoniae, actually is-

Matt:                     You just made me think of something too. You know how people talk about SIBO, so they talk about small intestinal bacterial overgrowth. And that causes mucus and inflammation in through their digestive tract which causes anything from constipation to diarrhea, which causes constriction of the bowel, it causes mucous production and inflamed mucosa. It’s exactly the same thing that’s happening in the lungs. And now the funny thing is, it’s all linked with the reflex, so there’s every chance that you could be getting the symptoms in your lung, it might be related to a small intestinal bacterial overgrowth. Or vice versa. You could have an alteration in your microbiome in your lungs and that manifests as small intestinal bacterial overgrowth syndromes.

Steve:                   Yes, absolutely. I mean, there’s papers coming out saying the role of the microbiome in asthma, The Gut-lung Axis is the title of this paper.

Matt:                     I’ve never heard of the Gut-lung Axis.

Steve:                   It’s well known.

Matt:                     Remember, we did a podcast not long ago, we mentioned the old treatment for ulcerative colitis was smoking? In the old days what they used to do was they added mucus to the bowel by irritating the lungs. What they’re realizing is that there’s this one link … you can use a fiber … I mean you can’t really eat a fiber into your lungs, you don’t really want to. You want to kind of get the fiber into your bowels but it will, through reflex, will effect your lungs.

In fact, in the GutRight product we have Larch Arabinogalactans. One of the things I love about Larch Arabinogalactans is they are a modbiotic or a prebiotic. When we talk about modbiotics, they’re prebiotics but they’re specific prebiotics. They will feed specific bugs and wipe out others. So, they’re not just a generic prebiotic but the Larch Arabinogalactans are so cool. There were some papers that come out the other day, the other year sorry, it was on a day though, a few years ago, and what happened in that paper is they ate these fibers, they ate them okay. So, when they ate the fibers and it went down through their stomach and in through the digestive tract they found the Larch Arabinogalactans making a coating through the lungs, a coating into the tonsils and that sort of stuff, and a coating up into the liver. In those papers it showed that it prevented the metastases of cancer to those regions.

Jeff:                       Wow.

Matt:                     It’s kinda cool. And we don’t talk about that in much of our data because we don’t talk much about cancer and that sort of stuff but it’s a very interesting point because what it was is, it was a fiber basically, that coated membranes and prevented infection. That’s a big part of the GutRight.

Jeff:                       I’ve got a good friend of mine at the moment who’s just gone in for a second operation with a whole heap of polyps in his bowel. Would something like that help to stop the, what do you call it, the metastasization of …

Matt:                     Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, see with the polyps in the bowel, what happens there typically is your immune system’s trying to isolate something and it creates these weird little, isolated little … well, it’s a polyp. It’s a weird little thing. I don’t really know why they are formed. Do you know much about it?

Steve:                   No, not much.

Matt:                     There’s a lot of … some people have infections that cause it. Some people have allergic … it’s the same immune little profile. But yeah, we’ve had some really interesting case studies come back, testimonials with the GutRight and polyps too. It’d be interesting to see. [crosstalk 00:25:58].

Jeff:                       This is topic for another podcast.

Matt:                     Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jeff:                       Sorry, just you mentioned it and, as I said, a friend’s going through it at the moment.

Matt:                     Yeah, no. So, basically when you a look at those … using those fibers and controlling the microbiome. If you control the microbiome in through the gut and bowel, through reflex you’re changing the microbiome in your lungs. And if we can control the microbiome in through your tonsils and throat, we can protect your lungs. And it’s interesting because a lot of common … another cause of asthma is recurrent tonsillitis and then tonsillectomy ’cause the next thing that happens is that decides to catch everything in the bronchioles to protect the lungs ’cause they’ve removed it from here.

Steve:                   I never knew that ’til I started working with you. It’s like, same thing as the appendix. It’s like, “It’s useless, cut that bit out. We don’t need it. Tonsils, nobody needs them.” It’s like, actually no, it’s there to filter out the crap.

Matt:                     And in my clinic, my favorite thing for treating tonsillitis was that Larch Arabinogalactans because they could fill up that little scarred up bucket with fiber that prevents the infections and actually feeds good bugs and wipes out the Strep that causes the asthma. Those ingredients that are in GutRight, and Steve-o’s printed off a little paper here that lists off-

Steve:                   Cheat sheet.

Matt:                     A whole heap of cool herbs that are really good for asthma as well and a lot of them are also in the GutRight. Because what we’re finding is a pattern between the same microbiome that we can regulate the immune system and inflammation.

Jeff:                       You’ve gotta put those lists of herbs up on the [crosstalk 00:27:24].

Matt:                     Sure.

Steve:                   Sure. It’s just a cheat sheet. There’s some science there. Also, we know that, you know, you talk about gut bugs and all that sort of thing and you talked about the bugs actually helping your immune system. We knew that because we found that the people that lived on a farm had vastly lower rates of asthma. And it’s, “Oh, well that’s the pollution thingamajig.” What we know, it’s exposure to the bugs and the dirt and that sort of thing.

Matt:                     ‘Cause that’s what dirt and dust is. Dirt and dust is predominantly dead bugs, skin, [inaudible 00:27:51] skin cells. I mean, that’s a lot of it, isn’t it?

Steve:                   Absolutely.

Matt:                     That’s what dust and that is in your house. [crosstalk 00:27:54].

Steve:                   It’s like a workout for your immune system.

Matt:                     Yeah, that’s exactly what [crosstalk 00:27:58]. They’re dead. They don’t infect. And this is the big challenge. The dead in bugs, really important for asthmatics because you want to challenge the immune system build up but not predispose to infection.

Steve:                   Have you heard of people who’ve been allergic to penicillin?

Jeff:                       Yes.

Steve:                   Fantastic. Okay, penicillin wipes out the gut bugs, which drives the immune system towards the T helper 2, the allergic side that you were talking about. The actual allergies, too, the sulfur [inaudible 00:28:22] things in penicillin is not that high, they found out. It’s actually the fact that it changes the gut bugs.

Matt:                     Is that right?

Steve:                   Yeah, that’s right. So, you know, when someone’s allergic to something it could be the something causing the allergy. And whenever a student would write something in about that saying, “Oh, people can be allergic to penicillin,” I’d say, “Are they allergic to penicillin or the effects of penicillin?” Wiping out the gut bugs.

Matt:                     This is the funny … so, when people come into the naturopath clinic and I say, “Hey, you allergic to anything?” And they say, “Sulfur.” I go, “What do you mean sulfur?” I said, “You’ve got a lot inside your body.” And they’ve just gone, “Oh, no, no. I know I’m allergic to sulfur.” And I’ve said, “Oh, okay. But why? How do you know?” And they say, “Oh no, I had a reaction to an antibiotic.”

Steve:                   Okay, and so if they eat onion they die? What happens ’cause there’s heaps of sulfur-

Matt:                     And I’m saying to them, “Well I can’t take sulfur out of your diet and I can’t take sulfur out of your body.” So they’ll be, “And I can’t use this supplement ’cause I’ve read the word sulphite on it” or something. And I’m like, “What are you talking about?”

Steve:                   Or, have you ever eaten taurine?

Matt:                     Yeah or garlic.

Steve:                   Which your liver makes taurine, which is a sulfur based amino acid. You can’t be allergic to sulfur. There’s no such thing. So, this is problematic. You may be allergic to a sulfur containing antibiotic because it-

Matt:                     Affects your microbiome. I never knew that. I thought they had just acquired an allergy to the chemical or something.

Steve:                   No. And that’s why penicillin use is associated with asthma.

Matt:                     Yeah right.

Steve:                   Yeah, one of the things. Of course, there is problems with, as you said, cesarean section. We know that of course too. We know of course, breast and bottle feeding and we know Clostridia in the gut is associated, and Klebsiella with-

Matt:                     Who gets most of the Klebsiella in [inaudible 00:29:51] … finish my sentence Steve-o.

Steve:                   Who gets most of it?

Matt:                     Yeah.

Steve:                   Oh, well. People-

Matt:                     People with antibiotics.

Steve:                   Yes, absolutely.

Jeff:                       Well, I was just about to say. That’s a big problem that we had with Corbin. He didn’t get asthma but he got bad eczema because-

Steve:                   And it’s very similar.

Jeff:                       He used huge amounts of antibiotics because he tried to come up [inaudible 00:30:06] in 25, 26 weeks. [inaudible 00:30:08] children. And so, as a result, Toni was just pumped full of so much antibiotics it was not funny.

Matt:                     And so then, in that instance then, you want to replenish but if you have a look at what’s available on the market and what’s been studied, most of them are just Firmicutes. Which is okay, ’cause there’s good and there’s bad Firmicutes. So, the Lactobacillus and the bifidobacterium, in regards to asthma, are kinda cool because they do stimulate the immune system and, in doing so, they reduce the allergic inflammation. In particular, the rhamnosus GG has been shown to be the best at reducing the allergic inflammation. Of the Firmicutes that are really bad, it’s the Clostridiums, the Strep, E. Colis, that sort of thing. They’re the ones that create the obesogenic profile, coincidentally, but also create the allergic profile. [crosstalk 00:30:52]. What’s interesting, we mentioned before about cortisol, and how cortisol can suppress the immune system and prednisone is the drug version of that that suppresses the immune system, and they use that as an anti-inflammatory. Let me suggest an alternative. Don’t not do what your doctor says, okay?

Steve:                   Disclaimer.

Matt:                     And if you are on a course of prednisone for a couple of days or, usually it’s only supposed to be three days not five years or something, [crosstalk 00:31:15], a couple of days, and then you get off it, okay. If you’ve been told to do that, do that. But for a natural alternative as a preventative, research CLA, Conjugated Linoleic Acid, is absolutely brilliant for mucosal inflammation. Excellent for asthma, excellent for Crohn’s and other inflammatory bowel disorders and that sort of stuff as well. But CLA’s other claim to fame is it can stop cortisol from suppressing the immune system and stop cortisol from breaking down muscle and preserving fat. So, CLA, if you’re on prednisone or on a preventative, you can use the CLA to stop the immune suppression from the preventative drug. But you can also use CLA to take away the swelling in the mucosa.

Now, in the ATP product, I don’t want to make it a product flog, but just so you don’t rush out and buy the wrong CLA, we use the CLA from the safflower, the one that’s naturally occurring, not the one that’s made, that may be associated with cancers and that sort of stuff. So, you look for a good natural form of CLA. So, the 69 11’s a cool one because, that’s in the safflower, but Amp-V from ATP Science and Aurum Oil both contain CLA, and good levels of CLA. For example, two ml is gonna give you over a gram of CLA, which is what you typically get into a capsule and that sort of thing. Now, with the Aurum Oil, it’s a more powerful anti-inflammatory ’cause it doesn’t have the MCT, so that’s got the CLA, it’s got the pomegranate seed oil, and hemp seed oil, so a very good anti-inflammatory.

But the Amp-V has peppermint in it, and peppermint is a surfactant. So, for people that have got this tacky, thick, crappy layer of dry, dehydrated phlegm that they cannot move, classic with chronic asthma, classic with emphysema or chronic obstructive airway disorders and that sort of stuff, brilliant for that. The peppermint will take that … it breaks up the surface tension on the phlegm and allows big lumps of things to turn into small lumps of things, which makes it capable to clear. Very interesting. There’s a lot of data on VO2 max and oxygen exchange, all those different things [crosstalk 00:33:27], so it’s got a lot of really cool properties with it as well.

Jeff:                       What about emphysema, Matt? Would it also help with that?

Matt:                     Yeah, absolutely.

Jeff:                       Because I mean the only-

Matt:                     And you don’t need to make it [inaudible 00:33:34]. The funny thing is with the peppermint, the little bit’s often as good. So, cystic fibrosis … [inaudible 00:33:39] my mate Jack Dyson, we send him some. He reckons it helps. The old lady next door to me that’s got emphysema, she just takes … like, she got confused when I said one or ml and then she’s taking one or two drops.

Jeff:                       Droppers.

Matt:                     No one or two drops. But that’s enough for her just to … she just takes that really frequently and then she’s been going back to doctor’s and her breathing, like the gas exchange, significantly better.

Jeff:                       That’s fantastic.

Matt:                     Yeah, and Jack, he reckons it helps a little bit just break up that crap. Another interesting thing, just while we’re talking about both of those cases, we mentioned … we had a podcast the other week talking about detoxification. We talked a lot about cytochrome P450 systems, which I’m not gonna talk a huge amount about now because you can go back and listen to that one. But cytochrome P450s are our first line of defense against toxins, against pollutants, and against inhalants and that sort of stuff. People think they’re associated with the liver usually but people need to understand they are all over your body, in particular through your lungs. What their job is is to make fat-soluble toxins water-soluble so that they get put back into your mucus where you get either vomiting, diarrhea, frothing at the mouth, coughing, spitting, and to clear it away that way.

Also, people can research into these cytochrome P450s and you’ll find a lot of antioxidants that slow down the cytochrome P450s have also got a great reputation for taking the water out of the lungs. Things like turmerics and the green teas and other antioxidants, astragalus, ginseng, those sort of things. Very powerful at taking away the phlegm out of these things because they slow down the cytochrome P450s and stop your body from constantly making water that dumps into your lungs and into your mucosa.

Steve:                   It’s amazing isn’t it? You got to remember that asthma has been around for so many year. It’s actually B.C. The first person to describe it was actually Homer. Can you believe that?

Jeff:                       Really?

Steve:                   I mean the poet Homer not the yellow-

Matt:                     The yellow Homer.

Steve:                   No, not the yellow guy on tv.

Matt:                     I was so impressed there. I was like [crosstalk 00:35:32]. I had no idea Simpson been going that long. [inaudible 00:35:36].

Jeff:                       Lisa’s eight, Bart’s ten. It’s the other one, [inaudible 00:35:41] Simpson.

Matt:                     No, other way around isn’t it?

Jeff:                       You reckon?

Steve:                   Yeah, she’s older than him.

Jeff:                       You reckon?

Steve:                   Yeah, he’s eight and she’s ten.

Jeff:                       Can we bet something on that? ‘Cause I love the Simpsons.

Steve:                   She’s older, isn’t she?

Matt:                     I don’t know.

Jeff:                       Lisa’s younger.

Steve:                   [crosstalk 00:35:52] gotta watch it.

Matt:                     I actually took a copy of a meme today from the Simpsons where Bart’s sitting and going, “This is the worst day of my life.” And Homer’s going, “No son, the worst day of your life so far.”

Jeff:                       Genius.

Steve:                   Well, the original Homer was a poet as well. That’s who he was. [crosstalk 00:36:10].

Matt:                     That’s why they named him after him, his philosophy.

Steve:                   Yeah, he described the word pampered … can I take you back to 1500s?

Jeff:                       No, we can’t leave this … I just got, my favorite quote from Homer is, and I always get it wrong and get it mixed up but it’s like, “Just because I don’t care doesn’t mean I don’t understand.” It’s probably one of the best quotes I’ve ever heard.

Steve:                   It’s funny, the early treatment … this makes me laugh but there is actually a bit of use in this, was believe it or not, in the 1500s they used to give them herbs, makes sense, and human excrement, human fecal, sorry animal [crosstalk 00:36:47]. Animal fecal matter was a treatment for asthma.

Jeff:                       That’s amazing.

Steve:                   So they gave them bacteria which normalized that immune system. And that’s 1500s.

Matt:                     Jeez, when I was a kid they put me in a bloody humidity tent, with a TV on the other side of the humidity tent by the way. So, you see the fogged up screen and turn the TV on and you’re like, “Right.” [crosstalk 00:37:08].

Steve:                   And the other treatment was enemas, they found useful.

Matt:                     Is that right?

Steve:                   So, they flushed the gut out.

Matt:                     Yeah, right.

Steve:                   And so that got rid of the-

Matt:                     So, again, it’s all microbiome and reflex through the mucosa.

Jeff:                       1500.

Steve:                   1500s, yeah.

Jeff:                       That’s crazy.

Steve:                   They have this [inaudible 00:37:21] which is-

Jeff:                       Did it improve?

Steve:                   It improved. That’s what they observed.

Matt:                     That’s cool man.

Steve:                   Those things. Herbs, yes, makes sense. Enemas, which makes sense. And giving them animal fecal matter, I was gonna say the S word but we can’t, because it gives them bacteria, which-

Matt:                     I was trying to think of all these different S words.

Steve:                   Oh just the one, the animal excrement S would-

Matt:                     Would relate to.

Jeff:                       Yeah, right.

Steve:                   So, you know, it’s crazy and another early physician said, put it down to, “Oh, it’s feathers being in people’s bed.” And there’s now [inaudible 00:37:52] truth too. [crosstalk 00:37:53].

Jeff:                       Well that’s what sets off … my nephew has dogs. [crosstalk 00:37:57].

Matt:                     Well I had, when I was growing up I had … ’cause I grew up in Mackay but there was a lot of cane farming and that sort of stuff, a lot of flowering cane everywhere, they believed was a major cause for it as well. But, we had these woven, it’s like woven baskets that they make in Fiji and stuff like that. My carpet was that. It was like this woven squares of stuff that covered my floor. It wasn’t carpet, it was like some weird stuff, like them weird hats you buy and stuff. Anyway, found out that that was a major trigger for me, full of mold and all that sort of stuff. So, you gotta find your trigger. But look for things that stimulate that allergic response.

Now, what’s interesting, in countries where they have endemic populations of major problems of parasite infestation, India and those other places, they have the lowest rates of asthma. So, where they have the highest rates of parasites … now parasites are supposed to stimulate the humoral defense or the allergic defense, but what they find is if you actually colonize good level of bugs and parasites early and they become part of your commensal microbiome, your body develops T helper 2 humoral immune responses to protect you from the parasites that also protects you from asthma. What they find is then in other countries where you get the parasite infestation later, it can aggravate asthma. So, what happens is, if you haven’t established this nice balance and the parasitic infestation occurs or if your commensal parasites overgrow due to immune suppression and that sort of stuff and overfeeding them, then that can trigger an asthma attack as well.

Jeff:                       It’s amazing.

Matt:                     We need that nice microbiome and this is also where yeast can also be protective because yeast has the ability to go from a single cell organism into a multi-cell organism where it goes from triggering T helper 1 immune response to modulating a T helper 2 defense. It’s kinda really cool.

Jeff:                       The beneficial yeast.

Matt:                     We’re talking about brewer’s yeast, baker’s yeast, Saccharomyces and that sort of stuff because if they aren’t there, then you can get candida and you can get exposure to mold and that can trigger asthma. It’s an interesting link. But let’s talk about some treatments or what else, you’ve got some cool stuff [inaudible 00:40:01].

Steve:                   There’s a lot of cool stuff. The million dollar question is, well one of them is, “Well, why does it happen in the morning and at night?” It’s a little bit of a mystery but [inaudible 00:40:11] before with the temperature drop at night usually. Because cold … inside your lungs you’ve got smooth muscle tissue. There’s three types of muscle tissue: cardiac, skeletal, and smooth muscle. Smooth muscle is particularly sensitive to cold. You have other areas of your body with smooth muscle, and I hate to bring up but it’s the penis, and so that’s why cold affects the penis and you get shrinkage. Not me but everyone else, you know what I mean?

Matt:                     His is already small, that’s why. Don’t notice it.

Steve:                   That’s right.

Matt:                     But women have smooth muscles also through the reproductive tract and the bowel, so the bowel-

Jeff:                       I’m not touching that Steve.

Steve:                   You don’t have to touch it mate.

Matt:                     The bowel, the reproductive tract, and the lungs. And this is why you’ll see patterns with things that relax the bowel, and a lot of the herbs that help female period pain are often the things that also help the lungs.

Steve:                   And that’s why you’ll often [inaudible 00:40:59]. Beth Root.

Matt:                     Beth Root [inaudible 00:41:00]. Beth Root stops the bleeding.

Steve:                   Well, they’re smooth muscles and because they’re [constrict 00:41:05], that’s why you get most of the heart attacks in the morning. If you ever wondered why people die of heart attacks in the morning more than other times.

Matt:                     I always thought the link was the low cortisol. [crosstalk 00:41:13]

Steve:                   And then it spikes in the morning.

Matt:                     So, through the early dark parts of the morning, when you’re in deep sleep, your cortisol is at its lowest, which means inflammation and immune activities are [crosstalk 00:41:27]. Which means, while your cortisol’s low we can fill up with phlegm ’cause there’s nothing to really stop the immune system from doing that. And, what were you saying Steve-o? What is the other thing?

Steve:                   The heart attack.

Matt:                     The circulation.

Steve:                   Yeah, there’s smooth muscles in the arteries that feed the heart, the coronary arteries they’re called, they become very constrictive and very reactive in that time and so when they, like they’re already mostly blocked let’s say, and you get some constriction there and it blocks the blood’s flow to the heart and you get a heart attack.

Matt:                     Yeah, right. And if you combine that with extra inflammation, that’ll make the blood gluggy and that sort of stuff [crosstalk 00:42:03] and the bronchioles constrict and that.

Steve:                   So, that’s early morning. The other thing we have to know about asthma is that it’s caused by different things. And it’s a little bit tricky because you can get eosinophils migrating into the bronchioles which cause asthma and you can also get a neutrophil type asthma and this is where different medications have to work for different things.

Matt:                     Let me break it down for the people.

Steve:                   Yeah.

Matt:                     Neutrophil in response to infection, so you might get a … some people say, “I never get asthma unless I get the flu.”

Steve:                   Yes.

Matt:                     If you’re one of those people then you’re looking at neutrophil infiltration issues. If you’re talking about eosinophils then we’re talking about ESR as a good marker on the blood test, and that’s the stuff to look for your degree of inflammation but eosinophils are often associated with allergic inflammation. And they will drive up that. So, in those sort of people you’ll find that, “Oh, I have a food and then I’ve reacted and I’m full of phlegm” or, “Every time I eat my throat feels like it’s swelling up” or something like that. That’s one way of telling. And also, it’s the eosinophil group that are more predisposed to have asthma and eczema. There’s the link there.

Where the other people that say, “No, it’s only if I get an infection that my body overreacts with … ” You know, those people that say, “Yeah, if I get a cough it goes to my lungs.” They’ll say, “Every time I get this thing it always goes to my lungs.” They’re the people more predisposed to the neutrophil infiltration into the lungs. And for the neutrophil infiltration, that’s where your CLAs and your anti-inflammatories, your turmerics … so, we got a product called Resilience that’s got the frankincense, myrrh, and turmeric or gold and that, and they are the best ways, and Ganoderma, they’re the best ways to regulate neutrophil infiltration.

But the eosinophil and other things like mast cell degranulation, that’s when we’re looking at bioflavinoids and anti-allergic herbs, alright?

Steve:                   To stabilize the mast cells. ‘Cause what happens in the body is you’ve got these cells called antigen-presenting cells, and they present antigens to the immune system and say, “Oh, this is what we’re dealing with guys.” And then you get either T helper 1, T helper 2, or T helper 7 team, whatever, coming up to treat your thing. Now, if it’s an allergen, the T helper 2s come out, secrete chemical messengers called interleukins and that’s like interleukin 4, 5, and 13 for asthma. So, there’s lots of drugs that target those. And they actually degranulate the mast cells to release histamine. Histamine causes vasodilation. It makes the blood vessels in the lungs become leaky to secrete mucus, to get rid of the thing. It’s not to kill you, it’s to get rid of the allergen in your lungs. That’s what it’s there for, so you can cough it up or, in your bowels, to shit it out.

Matt:                     Can I explain a little bit more about that? ‘Cause there was a lot of big words and stuff in there.

Steve:                   Yeah, big words.

Matt:                     So, what you’re looking at with immune cells, Steve-o’s talking about these mast cells and that sort of stuff, which are part of our allergic inflammation. When he said “degranulate,” it’s so cool. Get onto Google and do like, “live blood microscopy” or “hemaview” or something like that and then write “mast cell degranulation.” It looks so cool. What happens, you get these eosiniphils that look like aliens and that sort of stuff and they tell the mast cells to go around and blow bubbles everywhere, pretty much.

Steve:                   Pretty much.

Matt:                     And it looks so cool, ’cause you get these mast cells and what they do is, on their cell membrane they just start forming these bubbles. And then just like “poof” [phonetic 00:45:01] and release all these bubbles, and each one of those bubbles is like histamine. Then the funny thing, they go through an activating allergic response which drags all these other immune cells there, which then degranulate and release more histamine. As we know, histamine makes you scratch and itch, triggers flushing reactions, so that’s going to try to flush the membranes with mucus, flush the bowels with mucus, make you scratch, make you itch. That’s why some people … the other way of knowing if you’ve got that allergic style asthma, you just get that stupid, annoying itchy nose or the roof of your mouth will itch or something like that. You’ll feel those histamines start a reaction.

A lot of the treatments for it … like, my favorite ones, like there’s a herb called Perilla frutescens, which we grow as a salad herb. It’s used a lot through Asian and Vietnamese cuisine just as a salad herb. 90% inhibition of mast cell degranulation. After one month of using this stuff, and it works out to be about four or five leaves of this thing, you don’t have to do mega-doses, 90% stabilized mast cells. So, they release only 10% of the histamine that they would have released without it. Very cool. And that’s where bioflavinoids like quercetin, rutin … luteolin is the active ingredient in Perilla and that’s a bioflavinoid. They all stabilize these mast cells and stop the release of this.

There’s a lot of data now coming out with mast cell cytosis or mast cell degranulation disorders and a lot of these people are rewording allergy to mast cell disorders. It’s the same treatment. You just stabilize the mast cells, make them tougher so they don’t release as much histamine. The alternative is, let them release histamine and then try to block histamine receptors all over the body with anti-histamines or anti-allergy medication.

Steve:                   That’s what the [inaudible 00:46:35] are for example.

Matt:                     But what’s the problem? The side effect of using an anti-histamine in an asthma is it dries out the mucosa. And the asthmatics need some moisture in the air to be able to absorb the oxygen out of it. Otherwise they get bronchoconstriction because, as you’ve seen, you know when we have our compressors down in the factory there?

Steve:                   Yeah.

Matt:                     And you see the water that builds up?

Steve:                   Yeah.

Matt:                     So, as they’re compressing air it’s creating this water. That’s what our lungs try to do, to actually improve the oxygen exchange with a bit of moisture.

Jeff:                       What’s the other issue Matt, with having too much of your anti-histamines all the time? ‘Cause there’s quite a lot of side effects.

Matt:                     Well, a couple of things. The body does things for a reason. So, if your body’s out there releasing histamine in response to an allergy, it’s doing that because it thinks it’s part of your survival response.

Steve:                   Exactly.

Matt:                     You can also release histamine as a part of a stress reaction. Histamine’s recruited as part of our survival. It makes us more alert. And energetic arousal. Which is why a side effect of anti-histamine is drowsiness. ‘Cause anti-histamines wake you up. The body recruits them and so what happens is, if you go around blocking histamine receptors everywhere, and the body’s releasing histamine but not seeing the result of that, the only way it can compensate is by releasing more histamine. Plus, you’ve got the side effects then of receptor downregulation, which then the body responds by making more histamine receptors. So, the end result of constant use of anti-histamines is the reliance on anti-histamines.

Rather than doing a histamine blocking campaign you block the release of histamine. That way you can actually … it just works better. You don’t have the side effects, you don’t have drowsy … and you’re treating the cause. Then what you want to do is work on modulating that immune system so that way, when your immune system is exposed to an allergen or exposed to an infection, your body is not responding with allergic inflammation. It’s responding with the appropriate immune defense to kill the thing off.

The problem is, if you’re one of those people that suffered from childhood asthma and you’re polarized and stuck into that position, you only have one … you’ve never really matured a proper way of defending against infection. Your body’s just decided, “Okay, last time this happened I flushed it away with an allergic response and I survived. We’ll just do that again.” It’s a bit of challenge to actually educate the immune system to use different strategies, which is why it’s so important to go in with herbs and things that force change.

Things like bioflavinoids and that sort of stuff, they make sure the mast cells are stable but they don’t force change with the immune system. That’s what I love about herbs. So, with the herbs, if we look at things like garlic and all that sort of stuff, very powerful anti-microbials, they also stimulate the immune system while they suppress the allergies. If we run through those herbs on your list there Steve-o, some of my favorite … let me tell you my old recipes for asthma from my clinic. Don’t forget, I’ve had asthma my whole life and this is the reason why I become a naturopath. I don’t have asthma now. I don’t have it. Sometimes I do ’cause I’m unfit.

Let me tell you about the herbs that I used to use. Lots of CLA. Lots of Luteolin, but the luteolin supplements are too bloody expensive, like really expensive and relatively high dose. Luteolin, look it up, Perilla frutescens. It’s a velvety, fluffy leafed thing. You only need to eat half a dozen leaves a day in a salad or on a sandwich or in your … Vietnamese will do it in their rice paper rolls or in amongst all their other salads and that sort of stuff. That gives you the luteolin active. We grow it. It’s very susceptible to insects. It’s hard to grow sometimes. We tend to buy a lot of it because even though we grow it it’s just hard to keep it going. So, Luteolin’s brilliant. Most of the ingredients in GutRight, all the weird stuff in GutRight, the cranberries and the cinnamons and the pomegranates and all those sort of things have been shown to work along the same lines. And then, with our Resilience product with the frankincense, myrrh, and the reishis and that, they’ve got the ability to modulate the immune system and force change.

For symptom relief, I’ll quickly tell you, because one of my favorites was Grindelia. Grindelia is a herb and what Grindelia does, it’s a beta agonist, okay? So Grindelia works like ventolin. Grindelia, you can put in and it opens up the bronchioles. Grindelia, you’ve just got to be careful not to go to heavy handed with it because it does have the same side effects as ventolin when you’re taking it orally, meaning that it’ll make the heart race. So, you just get the Grindelia and it opens up the bronchioles.

Elecampane is one of my other … now, Elecampane’s used if you get the tacky phlegm in the bottom of the lungs. Elecampane breaks up old, crappy … it’s a very good expectorant but specific for the lower lung. So, if you’ve got old emphysemas and catarrh and chronic stuff and you’re coughing up stupid colors and horrible flavors and things like that, that’s when you use the Elecampane.

Thyme is a really good antiseptic, very good anti-microbial. It’ll sterilize and kill infection in the mucus, that before it … like Strep and that sort of stuff. If you get in the regular habit of using Thyme, it’ll sterilize a lot of these bad bugs and stop the infection in through the lungs.

Steve:                   I love it.

Jeff:                       It heals a broken heart to.

Matt:                     If you have a look under the TGA list …

That’s pretty funny actually, I just got it.

Jeff:                       Yeah.

Matt:                     If you have a look at the TGA list, they’re all crap because you’ve got Sambucus and [crosstalk 00:51:42] and both of those things are, one of them’s an expectorant, which is the Sambucus, and the other one’s a cough suppressant. So, you pretty much …

Jeff:                       Did you say Sambuca?

Matt:                     Yeah, Sambucus nigra, which is black elder.

Steve:                   Like the elderberries, yeah.

Jeff:                       Like what they make the alcohol from.

Matt:                     Yeah, yeah, if you like it. [crosstalk 00:51:58]. I still can’t touch the stuff.

Steve:                   Speaking of TGA list, what about coltsfoot? That’s a poison by the Australian government.

Matt:                     But it’s allowed on TGA products?

Steve:                   No.

Matt:                     No. Goldenrod … what’s that [inaudible 00:52:13].

Steve:                   [inaudible 00:52:14].

Matt:                     Coltsfoot was good and what … I used to do a fair bit of research at that one stage ’cause it was smoked by the American Indians for airway inflammation. They used to smoke this herb to get it into the lungs to do it. Speaking about smoking herbs, the myrrh, the frankincense and myrrh is what they put in the … there was a tradition there [crosstalk 00:52:33], wherever you get big groups of people, to prevent infection they would smoke frankincense and myrrh through the areas because it gets into the fabric of clothing, it can get into the wood, it can get into the walls, it can get into anything anyone touches, including their lungs and their airways. So, actually, smoking, or not smoking it but burning frankincense and myrrh in the houses [crosstalk 00:52:54], inhalation … yeah, yeah, you can do that. You can walk and shake it at your mate and that sort of stuff. You walk down the aisle and, “A bit for you. A bit for you.”

Jeff:                       I love that.

Matt:                     That’s what they’re doing. I’ve been there.

Jeff:                       That’s good.

Steve:                   And what about food? Do you want to talk quickly about food? So [inaudible 00:53:07] moving a bit out of time.

Matt:                     Bugger the time. We can make it work. We can edit some stuff out.

Steve:                   There’s some good research on foods that are very good for that.

Matt:                     Yeah, bring it on.

Steve:                   This is from a [inaudible 00:53:16]. Basically, the two things that are being challenged, this is hardly surprising, but fruits and vegetables are highly protective against asthma in kids and adults. That’s very good. So is Vitamin D.

Matt:                     And dairy’s worst.

Steve:                   Dairy’s a train wreck. And so is a lot of grains and gluten, they’re very bad for the mucus.

Matt:                     And color, colors and preservatives, ’cause they’re not natural to us. So, the chemical ones, our body it just goes, “I don’t know what this is, just flush it away.” And that’ll respond-

Steve:                   Tartrazine.

Matt:                     Tartrazine’s the worst. Yellow was a killer for me. To this day, the one thing that’ll still trigger an asthma attack is cordial. If I touch cordial it’s instant. You get the sugars and you get the color … for me, I can induce an asthma by just having a cordial.

Steve:                   When I was really young, and I never suffered from asthma but I used to get this incredible itching on my neck and chest area, I think it might’ve been in the lungs, from drinking a Maison, like a non-alcoholic wine.

Matt:                     Never heard of it. You deserve it.

Steve:                   It was like an [crosstalk 00:54:19] but it had a lot of sulphites in it.

Matt:                     Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Steve:                   So, I think that was then reacting to me to the point where I would drink it and literally I’d be itching my chest like this.

Jeff:                       Yeah, the metabisulphites.

Matt:                     If I had Brown Brothers I’d go bright red, splotchy, instantly. It’s the one … I can’t touch it. There’s some preservative or something in it, just doesn’t … and so does my sister.

Jeff:                       It’s funny because I’ve had arthritis and all that sort of thing so I’ve got a different immune system. I am allergic to nothing. Nothing’s ever caused a rash on me and all that sort of thing. That’s because-

Matt:                     [crosstalk 00:54:46] If you have a look at these herbs … so, Steve mentioned some foods but you just have a look at this recipe you’ve just provided me here.

Steve:                   Oh, it’s just a simple thing.

Matt:                     Well these are the studied herbs for treating asthma but if you have a look at it, as far as recipes go, you’ve got turmeric, garlic, lemongrass, ginger … where’s these others? Oh, there’s none on your shitty list. Oregano, thyme, lemongrass.

Steve:                   Yeah, they’re all great.

Matt:                     They’re all the sort of things that you can put into your food and actually have an anti-asthma properties. As long as you’re keeping the dairies out, you get away from a lot of the grains that can contribute to leaky gut walls and inflammation.

Steve:                   Absolutely.

Matt:                     While we mention that word, leaky gut wall. This is one of the gut links is, if you get a leaky gut wall … now the causes of leaky gut wall is inflammation, allergic, nutrient deficiency. Zinc deficiency’s probably the worst one. Those sort of things create a leakiness of the gut wall. What that means is the holes in the mucosa open. What that means is, before things get broken down into their tiniest particles through digestion they’re capable of being absorbed. Now, when it’s absorbed in a large particle, it’s too large for the immune system to engulf and remove so it triggers a flushing reaction.

The link between leaky gut wall and asthma is that inflammation, the constant inflammation that contributes to the leaky gut wall. The leaky gut wall allows more antigens, which Steve mentioned before, to get through. And antigens are just fractions of things, broken down bits of an allergen or a pollen or a bacteria or something like that. So, it goes in, says, “Hey, this is the stuff that’s coming through.” With the leaky gut wall you get so much of that.

There’s an aspect of our immunity we didn’t really talk about, which is oral tolerance, which is our ability to have a little bit of everything and not react. If you’ve got a leaky gut wall there’s no such thing as low dose exposure. Everything comes through in a high dose. And then the body can’t afford to wait to see what it is or can’t afford to say, “Just chill, it’s no big deal.” It’s actually going, “Man, this is potentially an infection, let’s hit it.” And then, if your immune system’s predisposed to allergic inflammation only, then it says, “Immune challenge? Flush. Bronchoconstriction. Allergic inflammation.”

So, we’ve listed off a few herbs that you can sip on all day as a tea, you can put them into your breakfast, lunches, and dinners, so you’re getting those things. You can incorporate the GutRight, the Resilience. You can play around with Aurum Oil and Amp-V. Definitely try Amp-V if you’re predisposed to sport induced asthma.

The other product … this is gonna sound a little bit weird, sport induced asthma may also be respiratory acidosis. It may not necessarily be an inflammation and a bronchoconstriction. If you get too much acid, then what happens is your body needs to pant that acid out. It needs to get the acid out before it lets you to take a nice deep breath. We fix that with magnesium and the best herb for that is Schisandra. We have a product called Infrared that’s based on magnesium and Schisandra and one of the best feedback we get is it actually reduces respiratory acidosis. I don’t even have to make a claim on sports induced asthma because it doesn’t fix sport induced asthma. It fixes respiratory acidosis and by that means you don’t pant during exercise. In the one study they did on Schisandra on race horses, or in one of the studies they did on Schisandra in race horses, it improved their time in an 800 meter race by 6 lengths by buffering the respiratory acidosis.

Jeff:                       And the funny thing is, for me, I mean it’s [inaudible 00:58:04] tragic, discovered it in my forties and absolutely love it, already doing … hit the pavement during pre-season.

Steve:                   That’s awesome.

Jeff:                       The products that I’ll be using are Amp before the game, and I’ll be loading up and then using through the game the Infrared. ‘Cause those two products, seriously, I keep going when everybody else is done, they fade away. And I don’t train as hard as some of the other guys as far as running and what have you but it definitely, definitely makes a massive difference.

Steve:                   Well, you know, the respiratory acidosis, for the people in the audience, when carbon dioxide reacts with water it forms an acid called carboxilic acid. So, breathing out the CO2 can turn that back to water, if that makes sense. I won’t draw the chemical thing. But, basically, that’s what acidosis … CO2 levels in your body trigger breathing rates. That’s the chemical that triggers [crosstalk 00:58:48].

Matt:                     It creates the same sort of symptoms though. The difference is is you don’t have the big production of phlegm. So, what happens you just … and that’s a weird one because it’s not that … it’s funny because it’s like you find yourself doing catch up breaths, you find yourself sighing. You know, if you’re [inaudible 00:59:03] respiratory acidosis ’cause you sigh a lot. You sigh, you pant out, and then you’re doing these regular catch up breaths, which we’re all doing right now. And you’ll know it’s respiratory acidosis ’cause what it is is it’s, you find yourself panting and shallow breathing all the time and then having to take a nice deep breath to catch up. But you don’t have that bronchoconstriction, you just go panting. That can lead to hyperventilation, and then they’ll say, “Oh Jeez, you’ve had an asthma attack on the sporting field.” But you can buffer the acid and it doesn’t happen.

Jeff:                       So, for asthmatics, using something like the Amp and the Infrared would be fantastic.

Matt:                     Yeah.

Steve:                   For people that aren’t, let’s say if you’re training and you’re trying to improve your VO2 max and your fitness, should you use Infrared and Amp before training or should you train without it so it’s harder and then when you use it in the game …

Jeff:                       That’s a really [crosstalk 00:59:50] question. That’s good.

Matt:                     That’s the whole concept of all these low carbs. What you want to do is you want to stimulate mitochondrial biogenesis, you want to get better and better at producing energy from bugger all energy. You want to do that pretty much through your training. Often you’d want to do it through your whole season if you wanted to perform for one particular event, ’cause you want to force yourself to struggle, you want to force yourself to be terrible in performance and allow your body to adapt back to normal. But then when you load up with your carbs you go beyond normal.

Jeff:                       Superman.

Matt:                     Yeah, so I always look at it, there’s baseball guys, they have the weight on the bat and they’re going right? And then they go, “Right, let’s take the weight off” and whack!

Jeff:                       So, if I wanted to perform every Friday night, which I don’t even [inaudible 01:00:34] …

Matt:                     Just do Infrared now, because you-

Jeff:                       Just on that day?

Matt:                     Yeah.

Jeff:                       But what about the loading? [crosstalk 01:00:41].

Matt:                     If you’re gonna load carbs … we’ll do another episode on performance.

Steve:                   Carb loading yeah.

Matt:                     But just quickly to answer your question ’cause there’s some people might be sitting there going, “Just answer the bloody thing.” Your glycogen reserves are gonna take 24 hours, 48 hours to replenish fully. So, if you’ve been going low carb all week and training and you’ve depleted your glycogen, then you need to replenish those in the days leading up to your event. [crosstalk 01:01:03] ‘Cause the Infrared, the sugars that you take pre-event, it’s only going to your blood. It’s not gonna regenerate glycogen.

Jeff:                       Probably Thursday day. Because I play on Friday night so probably starting maybe even breakfast on the Thursday?

Matt:                     Yeah, yeah, or lunch. But basically Thursday night. You could do Thursday night and Friday high carb and then you’re gonna reload all your glycogen, have ample carbs. Then the Infrared that you add in pre-event’s only gonna go to your bloodstream. It’s not going into your muscle. So then it’ll actually maintain your nerves and your brain and that sort of thing.

Steve:                   And then Amp it at the same time but don’t use the Amp through the race ’cause I use it for [inaudible 01:01:32] if I’m doing low carb or ketogenic to help with body fat.

Matt:                     You have to realize the Amp’s very interesting because it depends if you’re in a calorie deficit or a calorie surplus whether it’s a performance enhancer or a fat burner. It only drives those fat loss aspects and those ketogenic pathways in a calorie deficit and, in particular, in a carb deficit or a glycogen deficit, so it’ll drive those processes. Once you’ve reloaded and you use Amp, all of sudden you get those massive effects on performance. Remember those studies? 35% increase in grip strength, 38% standing box jump, [inaudible 01:02:04], high jump. So, all of those skills of grabbing that guy by the nuts and then jumping over him will be benefited with peppermint.

Jeff:                       Hang on, this is not Saturday nights. This is Friday night football. [crosstalk 01:02:15].

Matt:                     I’m trying to relate the data on peppermint to your chosen sport. So, increased grip strength by 35%, obviously in soccer players [inaudible 01:02:24] and then the next one’s the standing box jump.

Jeff:                       Yeah. Which, headers.

Matt:                     Huh?

Jeff:                       Headers.

Matt:                     Oh, yeah. Yup. Or jumping over someone that’s rolling around on the ground in pain.

Steve:                   Faking it [crosstalk 01:02:36].

Jeff:                       Shut up.

Matt:                     And then standing long jump was the other one. So, you can then, when someone almost touches your leg, you can just jump all the way over there and then roll around on the ground like Neymar.

Jeff:                       That’s terrible.

Matt:                     [crosstalk 01:02:48] my life and it really bloody hurts getting kicked in the shins. I’m only giving you shit about it because I know it’s … I can’t. And Neymar’s not gonna be complaining.

Jeff:                       What I’d love to do, is I’d actually love to do a performance podcast. I’d love some FAQs to come in depending on your type of sport, in terms of nutrients-

Matt:                     Yeah. Well, that’s a good idea. Specific for sports and [crosstalk 01:03:06].

Jeff:                       Obviously in Australia we’re coming into football season, so it’s AFL, Rugby Union, Rugby League, football … soccer in Australia and in the U.S. Sorry English friends.

Matt:                     I don’t even think we do soccer in Australia.

Jeff:                       What?

Matt:                     I’ve just been watching the Asia Cup. It’s …

Jeff:                       I actually think I got a call up. I could. I probably could.

Matt:                     Actually, the funny thing is, you look at statistics and we actually really do really, really well when it comes to shots and goals, when it comes to crosses, when it comes to position.

Jeff:                       Can’t finish that.

Matt:                     We just can’t put it in the back of the net.

Jeff:                       No, we bloody can’t.

Steve:                   That’s the whole goal of the game, literally. [crosstalk 01:03:42].

Jeff:                       Goal!

Matt:                     Yeah, [crosstalk 01:03:42].

Steve:                   Yeah, that’s it. I remember that guy. Is that guy still commentating?

Matt:                     All of them Steve go, “Goal!”

Steve:                   Oh, do they?

Jeff:                       [crosstalk 01:03:51] the English don’t. They’re far more refined than that thank you very much. They don’t go, “Goal!” like the South Americans and that do.

Matt:                     What do they do?

Jeff:                       They go, “Oh that was a marvelous goal.”

Matt:                     You want your shoes shined guv’nor?

Jeff:                       So, anyway, let’s do a podcast on performance. [crosstalk 01:04:08].

Matt:                     Let’s do one on low carb too, show people how to do the low carb thing for performance.

Jeff:                       Yes. Real low carb.

Steve:                   Definitely a little peppermint and then we can talk about things like the bitter [inaudible 01:04:20], which is fantastic. Creatine as well too, the importance of that. It’ll be a great podcast.

Matt:                     It will be. Better than this one.

Jeff:                       We’ll get some FAQs. Is there anything else you guys want to say?

Matt:                     No.

Steve:                   No, not really.

Matt:                     You done?

Jeff:                       Just, bacteriodes are the bacteria in the lung for healthy gut and for healthy lungs.

Matt:                     Yeah, cool.

Jeff:                       They’re the ones that predominate in healthy lungs.

Matt:                     So, again, GutRight, Modbiotics and GutRight.

Jeff:                       Yeah, exactly.

Steve:                   And when we’re talking about microbiome and sports, I had one of our people … and we had mentioned it before in a podcast, they want to know specifically what exercises are beneficial for the gut microbiome, which we mentioned Acamancia-

Matt:                     Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Steve:                   And that sort of stuff. So we could talk about the impact of that.

Matt:                     That’s clever, yeah.

Steve:                   That would be really cool as well.

Matt:                     I discovered high it’s high intensity and low carb.

Steve:                   Yeah.

Jeff:                       I got a fluke to paper on that yesterday, so-

Matt:                     That’s freaky.

Jeff:                       I forget who it was. I think it was Kate Mestroantonio. I’ll trample over names. I can’t remember.

Matt:                     Just make it up.

Jeff:                       No, it was Kate.

Matt:                     Katy Perry.

Jeff:                       Yeah. [crosstalk 01:05:26].

Steve:                   Very funny.

Matt:                     So, that’s cool.

Jeff:                       Alright, so let’s do some FAQs.

Matt:                     Alright.

Steve:                   Okay, sure.

Jeff:                       This one’s for … actually, before we do that, again guys, please we just love the reviews coming in and we’ve had some really nice ones as well too. It just helps to share the love and if you’re enjoying the podcast please, if you haven’t already, please get on there and write one up. This one’s a five star rating, says, “Love these guys. I can listen to an hour on this podcast. Even after working in the natural health industry for a long time I was blown away with the information they provide. Constantly learning something new. Especially love the biochemistry and super nerdy parts just to keep your brain switching between salivating for more and maximum capacity.”

Matt:                     Something about me, are you salivating for more?

Steve:                   Oh wow.

Jeff:                       Fizzy pineapple?

Matt:                     Probably pineapple [crosstalk 01:06:18]. I think most people pronounce it pineapples. Pinapples.

Steve:                   It’s pronounced peenapple.

Jeff:                       So, anyway, thanks very much for the review and guys, if you can, that’d be great. If you could do one. This one’s from Samantha. “Hi guys. Love your work and listen religiously. For the past 12 years I’ve had a major stomach issue, diagnosed with IBS when I was 15, I’m now 27. I’ve recently been diagnosed with collagenous colitis after my third colonoscopy and endoscopy in the past two years. My symptoms are severely debilitating. Stomach pain. Cramps almost daily. Diarrhea, especially after rich foods in the morning, and this can come on very quickly. Bloatedness, nausea, and dizzyness, mostly in the mornings. Headaches and extremely bad period pain, consisting of lower stomach cramps and excruciating back pain. I’ve seen three different gastros for colonoscopies and endoscopes and was placed on …”

Matt:                     [inaudible 01:07:21] which is a steroid, Steve.

Steve:                   Yeah.

Jeff:                       “… for six months, which worked but I hated it because of the weight gain and didn’t want to be on steroids or any medication. A neurologist placed on” … Steve?

Steve:                   [inaudible 01:07:35].

Jeff:                       Yeah. “And a chiropractor adjusted my back and suggested to avoid coffee, corn, and soy. A cardiologist, who thought I had Pots Syndrome. A dietician placed me on FODMAP diet and a gynecologist, who said I probably do have endometriosis, however he didn’t want to do a …”

Matt:                     Laparoscopy.

Jeff:                       “And put me back on the pill. I train approximately four times a week in the gym, a combination of weights and cardio classes. I eat very healthy diet consisting of a variety of meats, vegetables and fruits, as well as pomegranate, turmeric, taken from your advice on the podcast. I drink three liters of water daily and also have three coffees daily. Also, I can’t seem to figure out if this helps make my symptoms worse. I try my best to stick to a gluten free diet and I minimize my dairy intake as well as limit carbs. At the moment I’m on an oral contraceptive pill, which I don’t like taking, however I’m not planning a family. And also have two tablespoons twice a day of psyllium husks, which has been recommended by my gastro. I should also mention that my mum has Addison’s disease and my younger brother, age 26, has Type 1 Diabetes. Any help would be greatly appreciated, guys, because as you can see I have really tried to work it out. Kind regards from Sam.”

Matt:                     I don’t see any mention in here of gallbladder checks. The symptom checklist for gallbladder stagnation or congestion or poor bile flow by the liver, imbalances in there, is the stomach pains and cramps, the diarrhea, especially after rich foods, also just feeling nauseous in the morning, dizziness, which is there, headaches. Another symptom of it is frustration, irritability. You get the bloatedness. Definitely get period pain because the same process of bile production is what regulates your menstrual cycle and estrogen detoxification so you don’t get such things as endometriosis, sticky blood that contributes to cardiovascular disorders. Headaches, definitely. Extremely bad period pain, like I said, it’s linked in with the hormones and there’s a definite link between estrogen dominance in your endo … estrogen dominance menstrual cycle and gallbladder disorders. The excruciating back pain, it’d be really interesting to see if there’s a link to the right shoulder blade. So, one of the key features of gallbladder disorders is that the right shoulder blade, the back of your ribs on the right side, will often have a reflex but on sometimes it’s the other side because their body’s weird. You know, we just sometimes compensate.

Steve:                   That’s brilliant. I didn’t think of that until you mentioned gallbladder and I went, of course it is! Because that’s … I mean, the back pain thing.

Matt:                     Everything. You go through everything here, they all can be either linked to gallbladder or linked to a defect within the liver, its ability to metabolize with lipotropes, to actually create the proper bile that would prevent the gynecological problems, that would prevent the cardiovascular problems, all of these things, man. Seriously, everything you’re going through, it’s just like …

Steve:                   I was thinking exactly the same thing.

Matt:                     Yeah. I thought you would have been. And there’s some interesting links. If you’ve got a family history of something like Addison’s disease and autoimmunity, then you’re predisposed to excessive inflammation. You’re predisposed to inflammation that contributes to fatty liver and that sort of stuff. The funny thing is, is everything here … I don’t know if they’ve checked it but even in saying that, often with a gallstone they’ll do an ultrasound or something like that, they can’t always see it, especially if it’s sludgy.

What I would do, if it was in my clinic, before I went ahead and did a massive treatment, I’d do a couple of little experiments. For starters, what I’d get you to do is when you feel nauseous in the morning and bloated and that sort of stuff in response to rich foods, or before you get to that point, when you know you’re gonna have a meal that’s gonna flare you up, like a roast, your Sunday roast, classic for gallbladder, especially pork or something with crackling. Oh man, that’s so good, I’m so hungry now. But what you do is, you get a little bit of warm water, two teaspoons of lecithin granules, okay? They taste a little bit nutty. But lecithin is the thing that is in your bile that emulsifies the fats to stop the nausea and the diarrhea and the cramping in the gut.

So, what happens, the gallbladder’s just supposed to break down the fat so that way your body can absorb it. If it can’t then the fat, big fat bubbles, stay in your gut and the body goes, “I don’t know how to … I can’t get rid of this.” And you get the nausea, you get the bloating, you get the flushing. If you take a little bit of lemon juice, sorry, warm water, lemon juice, and lecithin granules in the morning and see if that takes those symptoms, and it should be pretty well straightaway. So, if you have some fatty, greasy foods and you’re feeling yuck, then you just have the lecithin and the lemon, it should emulsify the fats and should actually take away a lot of that symptom. And you go, man, seriously. You’ve just helped your gallbladder do its job and those symptoms are gone. You can kind of manage it that way.

Steve:                   And if that happens, Matt, so then is that-

Matt:                     Then you could go further investigations into the gallbladder. I would definitely do some blood testing for liver function test and that sort of stuff to see if there’s raised liver enzymes.

Steve:                   Any particular which ones?

Matt:                     No, the liver function test’s just a standard one. I look for, if you get raised liver enzymes it’s an indication that, potentially, things are backlogging back into your liver and not flushing out. [crosstalk 01:12:34]. And if you see a link into the pancreatic stuff as well, if you get stuff with the pancreas, then you know the problem’s further down in the common bile duct, because they share a tube. If it gets blocked there, then both the pancreas and the liver backlog. You might find some jaundice and some other symptoms of bilirubin, some yellowness, some itching after showers and frustration, irritability-

Steve:                   And the gallbladder sits lower stomach and she’s actually mentioned lower stomach cramps.

Matt:                     Yeah.

Steve:                   It’s like she says, “Bad period pain consisting of lower stomach cramps.” It’s very telling. And back pain.

Matt:                     It’s very similar treatment to fix endometriosis, is what you do is you fix the gallbladder. To fix the gallbladder it’s basically using amino acids, vitamins, nutrients, but then certain herbs that increase the gall flow, the gallbladder bile flow. That was hard to say.

Another one, [crosstalk 01:13:22] peppermint leaf tea’s really cool, it stops the spasming in the common bile duct. So, peppermint tea’s cool because peppermint also helps to make big gas bubbles into little gas bubbles, big fat bubbles into little fat bubbles, and it relaxes the muscles through the gallbladder. So, if you can relieve these symptoms with a peppermint tea, lecithin, and lemon, you’re probably, fair chance you’re looking at your gallbladder.

Steve:                   Nice.

Matt:                     Other signs of gallbladder disorders that you could look out for, is typically pale poo, if you have clay colored, very pale poo. Because bile’s yellow. When the bacteria feed on the yellow bile they make it brown. If you’ve got no color in your poo then there’s probably no bile in your poo. So, look for that. And also, because bile’s job is to emulsify and absorb the fats, the fats may stay in the poo. So, some people get like an oil slick on the toilet but other people just get floaters, ’cause fat floats.

Steve:                   Yeah right.

Jeff:                       Nice.

Steve:                   Wow.

Matt:                     So, that’s an interesting one and then let us know what you find and we’ll see.

Steve:                   That’s so cool you mentioned gallbladder. And the back pain. The back pain’s interesting because when you palpate a back you usually feel some problems, muscle and everything. With these people, they don’t have anything physically wrong with their back, they just feel … it just hurts.

Matt:                     Yeah.

Steve:                   ‘Cause it’s a referred pain. So, it’s really interesting. You can sort of … maybe a Chiro that you’ve been to … it’s very interesting, a very interesting case, but it probably is the gallbladder.

Matt:                     Take a look.

Steve:                   Yeah.

Matt:                     Alright, someone.

Jeff:                       So, as far as supplements are concerned, just what you’ve recommended?

Matt:                     Tricky at first. Yeah, not for now because I don’t want to mask it, you know? ‘Cause we could manage a lot of these symptoms but the treatment, if we find out, what the treatment would be, GutRight, Resilience because we need to look after that regulate there, and the funny thing is, is aminos.

Jeff:                       Yeah, right.

Matt:                     Multi-Food Aminos, GutRight, and Resilience.

Jeff:                       Cool, like the vegan aminos?

Matt:                     Yeah.

Steve:                   I’ve read they’d be very good because of the taurine. It’s got the … that helps your bile.

Jeff:                       Maybe we’ll wait to hear back from her. If you can come back to us in the next note Sam, and if that diagnosis is correct then we’ll send you out a free package then. How’s that?

Steve:                   Yeah.

Matt:                     I don’t think it’d hurt. You can send Multi-Food, Resilience, and that anyway. I’d hate to be a tight ass wouldn’t it?

Jeff:                       Well, you got a reputation Matt.

Steve:                   [crosstalk 01:15:24] It’s anti-inflammatory, she should-

Matt:                     They call me Mackerel Bum. Tight as a fish’s ass.

Jeff:                       Alright. [inaudible 01:15:31] serious. Now, this one’s from Mark.

Matt:                     [crosstalk 01:15:34].

Jeff:                       I’m supposed to be the comic relief. I can’t even pronounce words so anyway. Mark. “I was talking to a workmate, Ben, earlier this morning and he was also listening to your podcast on Spotify and was explaining some of the fantastic products that you guys help people with on odd and rare occasions. I jumped onto Google straightaway, which has led to this email. I’m chasing a miracle cure for a condition I was diagnosed with at the start of the year. The condition is CIDP.”

Steve:                   Which is chronic inflammatory demyelinating polyneuropathy, which is a autoimmune disease of the peripheral nerves and the myelin sheath, things that cover the nerves around the body. I mean, it’s similar to MS that’s the sheaths in your brain but this one is throughout the body. It’s like Guillain-Barré syndrome, which is a more common demyelinating thing that starts in the feet. So, it’s a little bit of a weird one, fairly rare actually.

Jeff:                       “In short, my immune system is attacking my system.”

Steve:                   Yeah, the myelin sheaths of the immune system, sorry nervous system.

Jeff:                       Right. “I’ll give you a brief rundown in [inaudible 01:16:31] with your contact, and what events are currently happening. I’m a 30 year male, reasonably healthy and eat well, possibly drink a little too much beer and wine but cutting down on them currently. I live in Perth in Western Australia. It started in January this year. I started to feel a tingling and numbness in my feet and it rapidly progressed up my legs, hands, and arms. I’m extremely grateful for my GP who initially diagnosed me with possible Guillain-Barre … ”

Steve:                   Barré.

Matt:                     Guillain-Barré.

Jeff:                       Guillain-Barré.

Steve:                   Named after himself again, another one.

Jeff:                       There you go.

Matt:                     People that don’t know language.

Jeff:                       Shut your face. ” … and sent me straight to hospital. After having a blood test, came back normal, a lumbar puncture test confirmed protein in the spinal fluid and EMG nerve conduction study confirmed damage to the nerve sheath. The …”

Steve:                   Guillain-Barré.

Jeff:                       Thank you. ” … was confirmed. I was given a five day dose of IVIG … ”

Steve:                   Yeah, flabber gabber.

Jeff:                       Thank you. ” … and sent home. Most of the sensations returned to normal, or close enough to. After two months I had a relapse and was admitted for another five doses of IVIG. Eight weeks after the second dose I felt the condition starting to worsen again and the diagnosis was changed from Guillain-Barré to CIDP. I have been on monthly doses of IVIG since and in the last three months the dosage was reduced with the hope of the body curing itself over time. I am now starting to feel the tingling worsen ever so slightly with the reduced dosage. I have a few questions with the hope that there is a product that I can try and improve my condition. Have you previously supplied a product to anyone with a similar condition and had success? Do you have any products that you could recommend? Three, is there any that’s better than the advice I am currently getting from the neurology doctors? It’s like trying to draw blood from a stone. Thank you.” This sounds pretty nasty.

Steve:                   Well IVIG’s an immunoglobulin and they usually give the IGM … there’s five immunoglobulins, we were talking about IGE today with asthma but they usually give them IGM to help settle out the attack on the immune system. It’s a memory cells, the Ms, if you think of that, and it just helps the immune settle down a bit.

Jeff:                       And just for clarification, obviously this was written at the end of last year, so it was January 2018. We’re now in January 2019.

Matt:                     Holy hell.

Jeff:                       So it’s been obviously a full year that the gentleman’s been dealing with this ’cause he said eight months-

Matt:                     You’re an asshole Jeff. Poor bugger. So, one of things that I’ve found in my clinic, every time there’s been a Guillain-Barré syndrome person come through, it’s often linked in to some sort of mosquito borne virus or other weird little viruses. What happens in those instances, it can create an immune reaction. Some people go polarized to the allergic side, where their body does not fight viral infections at all. Other people polarize the other way. Just depends on genetics and predispositions. But if you polarize autoimmunity, then your body constantly fights these things. The problem is, is it’s often triggered by a virus that’s still in your system somewhere that’s got a little shell or something protecting it from the immune chemicals and it lives inside your cells and continue causes a lot of problems. They’ve linked it into Dengue fever, [inaudible 01:19:51] virus, Barmah Forest, glandular fevers, all these sort of things.

Some interesting features that come with it, is it totally can disrupt a lot of folate and B12 functions within your body. Folate and B12 are essential for the myelination process and to look after the integrity of your myelin. One of the things, without the autoimmune aspect, the way that we used to treat the Guillain-Barré in the clinic was big doses of the folates and B12s for the myelin sheath, big doses of Vitamin D, and then the herbs that are found in Resilience, typically turmeric and frankincense.

Interestingly, the viruses that trigger the process, the best thing for those is Ganoderma mushrooms. With the Ganoderma mushrooms modulating the immune system at the dendritic antigen-presenting stage, we then use the frankincense and myrrh to regulate the immune response and the inflammation, the Vitamin D to protect from the immune system overactivity. We then need folate and B12. So, the combination of Resilience and Multi-Food was what we would prescribe.

Steve:                   That’s a beautiful prescription actually, it’s right on.

Jeff:                       A question, have you … and this is a good question … and again, these are relatively new products, the Resilience, well the Multi-Food’s not, but have you recommended this course of action to people with this situation before?

Matt:                     Yes and no. The folate and B12 … I was in clinic before ATP, so what we used to use is the folates, the B12, but very rarely have I treated someone with the CIDP, in relation to Guillain-Barrés. I’ve treated the CIDP and I’ve treated Guillain-Barré. I’ve never actually had someone come through that, “My Guillain-Barré caused this.” I don’t know, it’s …

Steve:                   The challenge with answering that question is, it wouldn’t really matter. I’ve never treated two people the same.

Jeff:                       Yeah.

Steve:                   For anything.

Matt:                     Because what we do in the naturopath world, you don’t treat disease, you treat people. You go through and find different combinations of things so-

Steve:                   That’s the probably the outstanding thing-

Matt:                     And like I say-

Steve:                   -between doctors and naturopaths.

Matt:                     Mark said it, so good on his doctor. ‘Cause the big problem is most people’s doctors don’t do these sort of investigations. They come across a blood test that’s negative and they don’t even care. They don’t do any spinal-

Steve:                   [crosstalk 01:21:57] the disease [crosstalk 01:21:58].

Matt:                     Yeah, exactly, so this is the thing. They got a good doctor where a lot of other people might have been told they got Guillain-Barré but, “I can’t be bothered to do the testing ’cause we got no treatment for it.” Or other people would’ve said, “You’ve got some autoimmune mixed connective tissue disorder or demyelinating disorder” or something. The diagnoses over the years, it’s hard to get exactly the same combination diagnosis and the same treatment.

Jeff:                       So how many Resilience, how many Multi-Food a day?

Matt:                     I’d probably take one Resilience three times a day and I’d take two Multi-Food twice a day ’cause I just want to double the dose of it.

Jeff:                       So, separate them out?

Matt:                     Well, it’s got the Vitamin D and the folate and B12. Any time you spread things out you get better absorption rates. So, rather than have four Multi-Food at once you’d probably get better absorption by having two and two.

Jeff:                       We’re here for Mark. What else should he should, man?

Steve:                   Go back obviously and talk to your doctor about the information that we’ve provided to you. We’re going to send out these products for you as well too but definitely, and we always say at the beginning of the podcast, it’s not [crosstalk 01:22:51].

Matt:                     Just keep in touch because it’s … [crosstalk 01:22:53]. What do you say, you’ve got a … it’s easier to turn a moving horse?

Steve:                   Yeah, we always start with something and then we just adjust and then see how we go and see what happens in your blood tests.

Matt:                     Vitamin D, you should get adequate from it. You can jack it up with a higher dose, so you can go get your doctor to do a Vitamin D test and … like, with the Vitamin D, we’ve got the maintenance level that we need to maintain it. Some people, in an autoimmune condition might go up to like five or ten thousand IUs of Vitamin D to have a more powerful immune suppressant effect, to have it work like a hormone.

Jeff:                       The thing is, as well too is that, this is information. We’re not seeing you. I mean, obviously. [crosstalk 01:23:28].

Matt:                     Oh, hell no.

Jeff:                       A good information here but it’s only a page if that makes sense. There’s a lot of further questions and information that Steve and Matt would normally talk to you about obviously if it was a consultation. The idea of these questions is really to give you information, food for thought, to then go back and even talk to your health care practitioner or to find somebody who can then further provide you information and support. As I said, the disclaimer’s always at the beginning of the podcast because we mean it. I mean, Matt and Steve are good but they’re not psychics. This is a good place to start. Anyway, we’re gonna send out those products. Hopefully that helps but definitely keep in touch and let us know how you’re getting on and work with a good health care practitioner that you feel is giving you good support.

Steve:                   Yes.

Matt:                     And we apologize that Jeff held out for a year before helping you.

Steve:                   Jeez.

Jeff:                       Well you know …

Matt:                     Power tripper.

Jeff:                       My brilliance.

Steve:                   Yes.

Jeff:                       Anyway, Mark, please let us know how you get on. Guys, that’s all that we’ve got time for today. We’re gonna come back with a performance podcast, which I love. I’m gonna love it. You know, it’s all about me.

Steve:                   I just wanna get better at football.

Jeff:                       Well, thank everyone for writing in. We’ll be back next week with a performance podcast. So, let’s do it.

Matt:                     We have to now.

Steve:                   Yeah [inaudible 01:24:42].

Jeff:                       And I can show you a few things, Steve.

Steve:                   Great, I need that.

Jeff:                       And that’s it from me.

Matt:                     And that’s it from him.

Steve:                   That’s it from [crosstalk 01:24:49].

Matt:                     That’s ironic.

Steve:                   See you guys.

Matt:                     That’s [inaudible 01:24:50].

Jeff:                       Well, alright.

Steve:                   Alright.

Matt:                     Alright.

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