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Episode 196 – The Benefits of Nutritional Yeast

In today’s episode of the ATP Project – Yeast, Matt and Steve talk about the good Nutritional yeast – Saccharomyces. They discuss the benefits these yeasts can provide to your gut – absorption and use of nutrients, effects on the heart, your skin and your overall general wellbeing.

 

Time segments:

00:00:00 – Intro
00:00:29 – Disclaimer
00:00:49 – Intro sting
00:01:12 – Intro Start
00:03:09 – Different forms of Saccharomyces
00:05:15 – history of Saccharomyces
00:06:58 – Pesticides killing saccharomyces
00:07:50 – Difference between  boulardii and cerevisiae
00:08:59 – Activation of the immune system
00:11:41 – Avoiding yeasty foods
00:12:34 – Yeast infections
00:13:18 – candida
00:15:14 – Competitive exclusion
00:16:00 – Antibiotics and Probiotics
00:19:25 – Candida infections
00:22:51 – Vegemite v Peanut butter
00:23:35 – Steve’s peanut butter and tuna sandwiches
00:26:22 – Yeast benefits – IBS and heart failure studies
00:27:52 – Yeast the missing link and the Mediterranean diet
00:37:13 – Cholesterol
00:40:15 – Nutrients and yeast
00:41:16 – Food security (genetically modified yeast)
00:42:45 – Study of synthetic vitamins
00:49:09 – Candida and low sugar diet
00:52:06 – Nutritional yeast products

Transcript: 

Matt:                     Hey, good day, welcome to The ATP Project, with your host, Matt and Steve, today. No Jeff, and I can’t think of any good reason why.

Steve:                   Why?

Matt:                     So we’ll- No, he’s just in the room next door. If we need him, just for some sensible stuff.

Steve:                   I think it was when we said we’re going to talk about yeast, he’s, “Oh.” he goes, “Oh, I’m out of that.” I think that was the whole thing.

Matt:                     Yeah I don’t know what that’s about.

Steve:                   We’re talking about yeast today, isn’t that yeast?

Matt:                     I never listen to our podcasts, because I did once, and I thought I sound like a drunk 12 year old, and I spent the whole time going, “Man, you should have said this, you should have said that. I can’t believe you didn’t do that, stop interrupting people.” And all those sorts of things I kept thinking, so I never listen to them. Someone told me I had to listen to the vision precision one the other day, if I hadn’t. Steve-O, I didn’t know …

Steve:                   What did I do?

Matt:                     You sang.

Steve:                   Oh, what?

Matt:                     You sang a bit, and then-

Steve:                   Did I, in that?

Matt:                     Yeah, the intro was you singing.

Steve:                   But I only have eyes for you.

Matt:                     And then people come to me and said, “Is this a thing you do now?” I was like, “I don’t know, it just [crosstalk]that sounds beautiful like an angel”.

Steve:                   Well, of course it was.

Matt:                     Then all of a sudden, then Jeff comes on and does this beautiful introduction with his polished voice like a lounge singer that’s talking and did it really well. Then you come in, and you talk really adult like they do on play school. [crosstalk] Then this drunk 12 year old pipes up and starts speaking rubbish and interrupting people again. It’s really bloody embarrassing. I don’t think I’m ever going to listen to one again.

Steve:                   No, it’s bad. Beck, my wife, listens to them, and I hear them round the house. I’m going, “Why am I hearing myself talk?”

Matt:                     My voice sounds wonderful inside my head. I just think big, floppy ears wreck the whole sound. You guys should hear it from the inside, it’s so much better.

Steve:                   I’m a bit deaf from the days of singing, actually.

Matt:                     Yeah, well lucky you. [crosstalk] listen to me all day. Now we’re going to do a podcast today on yeasty stuff, like you said.

Steve:                   Yeah.

Matt:                     So, we’re going to talk about yeast. But in particular, I want to talk about the different forms of Saccharomyces and people see them all the time. But they don’t realize what they’re looking at sometimes. It can get a little bit confusing because they use just that same word. But some of them are live, some are dead. Some might be nutritional yeast, some might be probiotic forms. We don’t actually sell Saccharomyces ourselves. But it’s something I do recommend a lot of times. So I want to tell people how to do it properly.

I want to show people some of the benefits of it and man, it’s actually, looks like it could potentially be a really important missing link between the mediterranean paradoxes and traditional medicine systems and just traditional food, well made food, home grown food. We are actually talking, Saccharomyces is the baker’s yeast, the brewer’s yeast. But it’s also called SB in regards to, if it’s in a probiotic, which is a variate for Saccharomyces Boulardii of course.

Steve:                   Oh yeah.

Matt:                     So, we’re going to talk about these different things and how to pick the right product for your particular needs. And also to let people know just how cool some of these things are and there’s not a huge amount of side effects that I know of so-

Steve:                   No. Two..

Matt:                     We’ll go through and talk about that. It’s a really cool thing that people can do themselves and add into their protocol and could make a massive difference. In some cases, I honestly believe, this particular yeast, whether it’s there or not, might be the difference between why someone benefits from a particular diet and another person doesn’t.

Steve:                   Yeah and as you know, it’s next year is the anniversary, the hundred year of anniversary of Henry Boulard discovering, guess which strain of Saccharomyces?

Matt:                     Boulardii.

Steve:                   Yeah.

Matt:                     Yeah. I didn’t know that.

Steve:                   Oh, okay. It’s a hundred years …

Matt:                     Why don’t we do this podcast next year?

Steve:                   Yeah. Well we should do it this year too.

Matt:                     What we’ll do then is we’ll work out another plan for next year for his birthday.

Steve:                   Yeah. Henry.

Matt:                     Henry.

Steve:                   His birthday.

Matt:                     We might release a product called HB.

Steve:                   HB, that’s it.

Matt:                     Henry Boulardii.

Steve:                   That’s his name, Henry Boulard.

Matt:                     Yeah. That’s amazing.

Steve:                   He’s a scientist, he’s a french scientist.

Matt:                     That’s next year?

Steve:                   Yeah, he discovered that in China. He basically found it. No, if you want it to be a history lesson.

Matt:                     Didn’t sound very Chinese.

Steve:                   No, no, no, but he discovered that in China, that there was all these people getting cholera infection except the people that were eating mangosteen fruits and all this sort of stuff. He isolated this stuff off the fruit that we now know is Saccharomyces Boulardii or Boulard.

Matt:                     Really?

Steve:                   Then he went, “Oh, this is the stuff.” He isolated it and no one got cholera when they ate this stuff.

Matt:                     That’s really, really interesting.

Steve:                   Yeah, it’s typical.

Matt:                     Especially if you look at the fact that mangosteen is a very popular supplement talking about a lot of its health benefits. I wonder how many of those health benefits were related to the natural colony of Saccharomyces that might be living on the outside of it?

Steve:                   Absolutely. Well it’s from lychees too.

Matt:                     Oh, really.

Steve:                   Yeah.

Matt:                     So where else do you find it?

Steve:                   They are the only two places. But basically on the outsides of high end grapes. You can get it on grapes too. So, this is the weird thing. This is a classic … I know it’s a bit of history and people want to know about the biochemistry.

Matt:                     No I love this stuff.

Steve:                   The history is that there was someone who said, hey look, these guys are eating this stuff, and they’re not getting sick, and these guys are not eating that stuff, and they’re getting sick.

Matt:                     Yeah, yeah.

Steve:                   Cholera in this case. Which is explosive diarrhea, stuff and sickness. So he sort of thought, well what’s going on here? And he worked out with this yeast, isolated it, and there we have it.

Matt:                     Is that right? Now with that yeast, we’ll talk a little bit more about its stability and when it’s alive and when it’s dead and all that sort of stuff. But I can imagine making an extract from a mangosteen or making a lychee product and marketing that towards, hey, they’re going to kill off all the yeast, aren’t they.

Steve:                   They are, yeah.

Matt:                     So you’re not going to get the yeast on a mangosteen extract. But if you were to pick up a mangosteen fruit and eat it, you’re going to get it naturally.

Steve:                   Yeah, full.

Matt:                     Occurring on the outside.

Steve:                   It lives at 37.

Matt:                     This is just quickly jumping over to another little obsession of mine. But I can imagine the pesticides and that sort of stuff would kill it. So I can’t imagine that …

Steve:                   Yeah.

Matt:                     So if you are looking for the health benefits of the fruits like the mangosteens and the lychees or something like that, you’d have to get organic, certified organic, because otherwise it’s going to kill the yeast off the skin, cause it’d be on the skin, wouldn’t it?

Steve:                   It is on the skin.

Matt:                     Same with lychees?

Steve:                   Yep.

Matt:                     You don’t eat that skin.

Steve:                   No, no, but it’s on the outside of the lychees.

Matt:                     And it gets all over your hands and then you’re picking the skin and then, yeah alright.

Steve:                   It gets eaten.

Matt:                     And Saccharomyces is capable of living and colonizing inside of us.

Steve:                   It is, well the Boulardii is.

Matt:                     Yep.

Steve:                   The [Cervazia] is not, that’s the one that, Cervazia means, in Hebrew, if you want to know, this is beer.

Matt:                     Oh. Yeah.

Steve:                   That’s where it gets [crosstalk]

Matt:                     So that’s brewer’s yeast.

Steve:                   Yeah.

Matt:                     And Boulardii, baker’s yeast?

Steve:                   Oh, well you can use Baker’s yeast.

Matt:                     Well let’s go take a step back. Tell us the difference between Boulardii and Cervazia, and where we’d find them.

Steve:                   All right. If you look in the medical literature, you’ll find that the Boulardii is actually a subspecies of the Cervazia . They believe that’s where it should be in. But we’re going to separate them because there’s different roles, particularly in the body. The main difference between them is one that dies at 30 degrees and one that can live above 37.

Matt:                     So the body’s sitting at on average 36.8 or something like that. Then, so one of them is going to live inside us.

Steve:                   Yep, the Boulardii.

Matt:                     And the other one’s going to die inside us.

Steve:                   Yeah, which is not a bad thing. We’re not saying that Cervazia is a bad one because it does have some health benefits.

Matt:                     Well, we know dead bacteria and, in particular, dead yeast and those sort of things. They have a good role for stimulating the immune system.

Steve:                   Correct.

Matt:                     And if you have a dead yeast, running through stimulating the cytokines, which are the chemical messages from the immune system, because your immune system can’t afford to wait to see if it’s alive or dead. They just see the cell fragment. That induces an immune response or chemical messages to go out and fight it off.

Steve:                   Yeah.

Matt:                     Now, if it’s a yeast that they’re sending messages out to fight off, well that displaces other use such as Candida and other maybe Black Maldi Aspergillus, things that could overgrow or something. But mainly the activation of the immune system by dead bacteria is handy because those immune cells and those immune resources are not wasted killing off live yeast.

Steve:                   Yes, exactly. Right.

Matt:                     You’re actually then, or not the live yeast you have supplemented from Baker’s yeast or the Cervazia, but instead it might go and attack things like Candida.

Steve:                   Yup.

Matt:                     So is that how it did cholera as well, by stimulating the immune system?

Steve:                   Oh, absolutely. There’s many mechanisms. First, [inaudible] the inflammatory in the gut. So, this is where we’re talking about the Boulardii here, the living inside us one.

Matt:                     Yeah.

Steve:                   That one actually kills toxins. It destroys biofilm of things like Candida.

Matt:                     So the Cervazia, so it dies at 30 degrees. So the Cervazia is used to make beer. That’s the one we often find in beer and bread.

Steve:                   Bread, yeah.[crosstalk] And of course you let the bread, that’s why you have to let the bread rest at room temperature. Have you ever made bread?

Matt:                     Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like prove to prove it.

Steve:                   Yeah whatever they use. It also grows a lot of folate in there too.

Matt:                     Yeah. So hang on, let’s do this. There’s so much cool info. Hang on. So, Cervazia …

Steve:                   Yeah.

Matt:                     … used in the baking and the brewing process, it then makes bubbles. Doesn’t it?

Steve:                   Yeah.

Matt:                     And that’s how it makes the bread rise.

Steve:                   It gives off a gas of carbon dioxide when it metabolizes it.

Matt:                     And it feeds on the sugar, or?

Steve:                   Feeds of sugar, and the other byproduct of that is ethanol.

Matt:                     Okay, and that’s why it could be used to make beer.

Steve:                   Yeah.

Matt:                     So we’re looking at those. They’re feeding on there, they’re making bubbles. They’re making bubbles that makes your bread fluff up and makes your beer bubbling up.

Steve:                   Fizz up.

Matt:                     And tastes better too. And then creates alcohol in that process as well.

Steve:                   That’s a side effect.

Matt:                     Side effect?

Steve:                   Yeah.

Matt:                     That’s the only effect we’d dream it’d be for. So, that’s what that bloody [inaudible] You remember that Monty Python … They had that Monty Python sketch. For those people outside of Australia, it just needs to, while we’re taking about beer, there’s a very important message from Australia to the rest of the world, is that we don’t drink Foster’s. No one drinks Foster’s in Australia. And there’s that Monty Python sketch when they said, they’re talking about beer and that sort of stuff. They’re saying, light beer’s like making love in a canoe. It’s fucking close to water. So, what’d we get there. That’s all right.

Steve:                   Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It the way it turns out, unfortunately.

Matt:                     No we have that. So basically, so we get this Cervazia, it goes into our body, it dies off. When dead yeast runs through our body, it stimulates immune cells and those immune cells can actively kill off other yeasts.

Steve:                   Of course it does. Great.

Matt:                     What’s interesting, the reason why I wanted to make that point is, remember all the anti Candida diets. When someone tells I’ve got a yeast infection, or I’ve got a yeast problem, or a fungal problem, they’re told to avoid yeasty foods.

Steve:                   Yeah.

Matt:                     They’re told to avoid the yeast. But I like one of the terms that you said once, Steve-O [crosstalk].

Steve:                   You’re not listening to me.[crosstalk]

Matt:                     You used the term, sticky foods.

Steve:                   Oh yeah.

Matt:                     What the problem is, is they tell them to avoid yeast because yeasty foods like breads and that sort of stuff because they don’t want the yeast in the bread living inside the person.

Steve:                   It’s not the yeast.

Matt:                     It’s the sugars. So the sugars feed fungi’s and Candidas, same with like, I got these instructions saying to avoid mushrooms.

Steve:                   Oh yeah.

Matt:                     You can’t eat fungus when you’ve got a fungus infection. You’re not growing button mushrooms in your belly. Not even, yeah.

Steve:                   We talked about that. The old days of [inaudible] college in the [inaudible] when we studied, it was pretty bad. I mean we were told that and we believed it because we thought, mm-hmm (affirmative) okay.

Matt:                     I mean if you’ve been told you’ve got a yeast infection or you’ve got a yeast intolerance, or you’ve got fungus and yeast overgrowth. We’re not talking about an overgrowth of bread and beer in your tummy. We’re not talking about an overgrowth of button mushrooms, or oyster mushrooms or something. We’re talking about Candidas and that in particular, and they feed on the same things as other yeast and fungus feed on, which is why they tell you to avoid the breads. But it’s cause of avoiding the sugar. Because what a lot of people were used to do at my clinic is go looking for yeast free breads or something like that and eating all those, or I’m not going to eat bread because it’s yeasty, I’m going to eat pasta.

Steve:                   Yeah.

Matt:                     But I’m just letting people know that. That, that’s not what we’re talking about. But in fact it might actually be the opposite.

Steve:                   It is the opposite.

Matt:                     If you actually supplement with yeast, you might actually prevent yeast infections.

Steve:                   Brilliantly. So let’s talk about Candida albicans. That’s the elephant in the room.

Matt:                     Yep.

Steve:                   I’ve got a paper here, published 2009 that says the antagonistic effects of the Saccharomyces Boulardii on Candida albicans and it stops its adhesion and biofilm formation. So this stuff, that you can actually [crosstalk]

Matt:                     So, Boulardii lives inside us. So we can supplement with Boulardii.

Steve:                   Absolutely. It’s very good for the gut.

Matt:                     And normally, so you can get shelf stable Boulardii.

Steve:                   Yep.

Matt:                     And that sort of stuff. What temperature does it live to?

Steve:                   37.

Matt:                     So it’ll survive inside our body, which gets typically to 37.

Steve:                   Absolutely.

Matt:                     And I asked a weird question before, what if we have a fever and it goes over? Because what’s interesting about the purpose of the fever is sometimes to get us to a body temperature where the bugs can’t live.

Steve:                   Yeah. Viruses in particular.

Matt:                     They can’t live at a certain temperature, but also for every degree that we go up, our immune system goes up a certain amount. But you also said that the actual stomach contents where these things live, the watery content, where the stomach, where these bugs are in that internal milieu, I don’t know how to say that word. It may not actually change temperatures.

Steve:                   It’s vascular, in other words, no blood vessels going into your gut, like into to your intestines.

Matt:                     It may not be heating up past there and those things may survive. I was just curious about that.

Steve:                   It’s just interleukin too, which drives up the temperature and that is not, it goes through the bloodstream.

Matt:                     So when we supplement with Boulardii it’s, in one that’s been shelf stabled, that has been preserved, and looked after, and transported at a reasonable temperature, because some of those transportation can be killers and that sort of stuff. So if you get a good product that’s alive and that sort of stuff, and they’ve been managed to stay alive, they’re capable of coming through, surviving bile and acid.

Steve:                   Of course they are. They’re very stable.

Matt:                     And that sort of stuff to get into your intestine and live.

Steve:                   Very stable.

Matt:                     And then once they’re living there, they can actually colonize and grow and you’re saying they can get in the way of the biofilm.

Steve:                   Absolutely.

Matt:                     So biofilm is, the easiest biofilm that people see is like dental block. So think about, so as an example, they can go through when they colonize into the gut wall through a process known as competitive exclusion. They can stop infections from such things as Candida.

Steve:                   Yep.

Matt:                     Normally our other gut bacteria would prevent against Candida overgrowth through competitive exclusion.

Steve:                   Correct.

Matt:                     But this is why Candida comes after antibiotics, hey.

Steve:                   Yes, because it does, cause it also, what comes after antibiotics, while we’re on the antibiotic topic is good old clostridium, that’s C. diff.

Matt:                     So that’s why antibiotic associated diarrhea is usually clostridium.

Steve:                   And I’ve got a paper here that says, and this is how important this one is, it’s probably the number one health condition in hospitals in the western civilization. I’ll read it.

Matt:                     Really.

Steve:                   Yeah. It says C. diff infection occurs, mainly hospitalized, receiving antibiotic treatment has become one of the most urgent threats in hospitals in the western world. And this is a paper published in the [inaudible]Journal of Clinical Microbiology and this is 2018 paper.

Matt:                     And normally other big problems that the hospitals, other resistant bugs that are forming biofilm on the catheters and other equipment and every[crosstalk].

Steve:                   Yup. This basically killed it by about a third. It knocked out all these infections by third. Just-

Matt:                     Remember in the earlier days, when we worked with a lot more probiotics in other companies, there was that whole campaign pushing towards pharmacists and doctors that when you prescribe antibiotics to give probiotics with it. But we’re always like, okay, so when do we do that or how, because if we take an antibiotic, it’s typically to kill a bacteria.

Steve:                   Bacteria. Yeah.

Matt:                     So what it does is it kills bacteria.

Steve:                   Beautifully.

Matt:                     To use a probiotic bacteria supplement while taking antibiotics to prevent clostridium and Candida. You’re wasting the antibiotic killing the bacteria that you’re supplementing instead of the infectious bacteria. And you’re wasting your bacteria probiotic at the same process. And because the antibiotic is killing your probiotic, their likelihood of it actually having the ability to do competitive exclusion and prevention of Candida is purely by cytokine modulation, not by biofilm, not by adhesion, not by competitive exclusion.

It’s actually antibiotics killing the bacteria, those bacteria adding to the lipopolysaccharide load, driving up the immune system to kill off things. And hopefully, that might include Candida or clostridium. So a better scenario or a better thing would be to use a yeast, Saccharomyces  Boulardii, when you’re taking antibiotics to go through, cause the antibiotics aren’t going to kill it, are they?

Steve:                   No.

Matt:                     Antibiotics don’t kill the yeast.

Steve:                   No, it doesn’t kill the yeast at all.

Matt:                     Which is why Candida thrives through antibiotics. So, if we use Saccharomyces Boulardii you can use that the whole way through the end. In fact you could even take an antibiotic and an SP at exactly the same time without having a problem rather than with the bacteria scenario. It never really worked because we were always like, well don’t want to waste your antibiotics so try to take your probiotic away. But it doesn’t matter because it’s a steady blood level and then we go, oh well just wait til after it. But then, by then they’ve already got Candida and then onto an antifungal or a hospital with clostridium.

Steve:                   Exactly.

Matt:                     So we need to prescribe, so pharmacists and doctors and anyone out there that’s been using antibiotics, especially people that are using long term antibiotics for predisposition to urinary tract infections, or acnes, or something like that. You need to be on a SB supplement. One that’s alive, possibly, some of them are shelf stable. They can stay fine on the shelf.

Steve:                   They can.

Matt:                     A lot of them put them in the fridge. The ones in the fridge are usually mixed with other probiotics and it’s put in the fridge because they need to keep the other lactobacillus in there cold.

Steve:                   Absolutely. It’s even worse than that because a lot of people get, for example, thrush after they have antibiotics. I’m just thinking, typically in a vaginal yeast growth, and that’s usually Candida. Well that happens so often. Now see, this is a study done on C. diff. So, that’s different. That’s a bad one for elderly people. They basically can die because you get dehydrated and die. But my wife is a nurse, so I said, “Do you guys do anything like this?” She just looked at me this morning of laughed.

I was telling her about the podcast and I said, “Well, this is about your hospitals and what you do there.” And it’s like, “I don’t even consider this sort of stuff.” Yet, these papers are out here. One of the greatest health challenges can be knocked down by a third by a simple yeast, a healthy yeast. But let’s get back to these women with it. They always say, I’ve developed a Candida infection. Well, you’ve already got the Candida.

Matt:                     Everyone’s got Candida infection.

Steve:                   You’ve already got it. It just overgrows it. So this knocks that out.

Matt:                     Yeah, by not allowing it to overgrow.

Steve:                   Yeah. And also-

Matt:                     And by filling up the spaces.

Steve:                   And also by dephosphorylation. And I don’t want too get too nerdy about that.

Matt:                     No. Go nerdy man. Dephosphorylation, you seduced me, Steve. I don’t know those sort of words.

Steve:                   When you phosphorylate enzymes. It actually makes things activate like [inaudible] three kinase in your second messages when you’re doing glucose disposal. So anyway, phosphates make things happen. This dephosphorylates the whole process. So you end up with a dead C diff.

Matt:                     Is that right?

Steve:                   Yeah. That’s one of the mechanisms.

Matt:                     It deactivates them.

Steve:                   Yeah.

Matt:                     Sort of stuff.

Steve:                   And Candida, why it kills Candida, it also stops adhering to the gut wall. So it just goes off and down the toilet it goes.

Matt:                     It can’t grow, can’t spread.

Steve:                   Can’t grow, it can’t thrive.

Matt:                     And then also too, because it is a yeast, but it’s not one that’s going to infect into our body.

Steve:                   Yep.

Matt:                     So, the immune system doesn’t know that.

Steve:                   No.

Matt:                     So the immune system sampling it because it doesn’t care, it just rips up the cell wall and finds markers and said, another yeast, get on and smack it.

Steve:                   Yup.

Matt:                     It doesn’t care if it’s a fungi or a fungi.

Steve:                   No.

Matt:                     It’s going to kill it anyway.

Steve:                   Absolutely, and it reduces inflammation in the gut wall. So all those inflammatory bowel diseases, it’s fantastic. It knocks out tumor necrosis facto.

Matt:                     Yeah. Well, they all contribute to the leakiness-

Steve:                   Yep. It’s great for that.

Matt:                     … or permeability that makes the immune system. And also that’s how they spread. It’s really cool. You get, look at photos of Candida online, microscope ones, not vaginal thrush photos. But you go through and actually have a look under an electron microscope and you see these little single cell organisms growing these roots that embed into the wall and shoot these little eggs off it. It’s a complicated little thing.

But if you can get in early and stop these little things from the yeast, the single cell yeast sticking, or the spores from sticking to the membrane, then you can stop that infection. Then you can stop the growth and then you can stop it from forming into a fungal colony, which is pretty much like a pile of mushrooms growing into your body. So this might be what they saw when they told you to avoid mushrooms.

Steve:                   I don’t know, some all natural medicine things are really quite severe.

Matt:                     But also too, you also got to realize that if someone’s got some sort of a reaction, so if someone’s had an overgrowth of fungi and yeast for a period of time, they do get a bit of an immune memory to it. So sometimes when they eat yeasty foods, they’ll get an immune reaction to those yeasty foods like a bloating, or a fullness, or an intolerance style reaction. So sometimes if you go back looking at symptom pictures and elimination diets, and you can imagine how they got to this point by saying, well actually, when you eat sugar, you’re going to get bloating and you’re going to get fullness cause you’ve got bugs inside you that’s creating this reaction.

But actually I’ve also noticed through your case history, when you eat other yeasty foods like breads or vegemites and those sorts of things, and beer, you also get the similar reaction. Therefore, they must be growing inside you. But no, it’s not. It’s, it’s actually just a similar immune reaction or a reaction to the amount of sugar contained.

Steve:                   Yeah, you’ve gotta get off the vegemite. It’s not the vegemite itself, as you say. It’s what do people put vegemite on. For those people who don’t know what vegemite is, it’s a black, salty, yeasty.

Matt:                     Beautiful, amazing stuff. I love it, Steve.

Steve:                   I’m a peanut butter man.

Matt:                     Yeah, me too. But it doesn’t matter. You can’t pick and choose.

Steve:                   No, no, it’s just a blackie. It’s very strange. Black paste. But it’s full of yeast.

Matt:                     It’s wonderful. It’s full of nutrients

Steve:                   Yeah, it is full of nutrients.

Matt:                     And vitamins and it tastes like nectar of the no no, no …

Steve:                   I like salty yeast.

Matt:                     I actually bloody like it.

Steve:                   Some people like it, yeah.

Matt:                     Yeah.

Steve:                   Nah, it’s not my favorite, I have to admit, I’m not really an Aussie obviously.

Matt:                     No.

Steve:                   But look, there are few trials for your bowels.

Matt:                     I don’t know if we can still hang out, Steve.

Steve:                   No it’s terrible isn’t it?

Matt:                     This is a little bit weird. Now actually, while we’re talking about this. Okay. Just for people to understand how deluded this guy is, I went fishing with Steve on the weekend.

Steve:                   Yes.

Matt:                     So this is the guy that “I’m a peanut butter man.”

Steve:                   Yeah, yeah.

Matt:                     And vegemite, oh, uh, uh … Okay. So Steve-O, we’re out fishing. Hey Matt, would you like a sandwich?

Steve:                   Yeah.

Matt:                     Why not? So this Steve-O gets out of his homemade gluten bread.

Steve:                   Wheat bread, yeah.

Matt:                     And puts it on to his bait board. We’ve been cutting up the bait, and he says it’s already got peanut butter on it.

Steve:                   Yeah.

Matt:                     And I said, you little bloody ripper. I love peanut butter. So let me finish it off for you.

Steve:                   Yes.

Matt:                     He then slices up with our bait knife on the bait board, some tomato chunks and puts it on there for him, which is great. And I’m thinking, peanut butter, tomato, this could work. I’m into [sartay] I’m a sartay fan. So then the next step was getting out a tin of tomato flavored oily tuna.

Steve:                   Yeah [inaudible].

Matt:                     Which he then tipped onto the sandwich. So it’s peanut, it’s gluten sour bread. That’s the way I describe gluten, sour bread.

Steve:                   It’s a weird, weird bread. It’s not technically a bread. It’s protein and fiber. [crosstalk]

Matt:                     It’s not bread Steve. It’s aerated gluten, with a crust. And then we’ve got the peanut butter smear. But I think what I love about peanut butter the most is the copious amounts of butter, I add with it. But then I think the tomato, but I got to feeling it might’ve just been the tomato flavored tuna that kind of tipped me over the edge. And I’m a very polite person, but I’m also very [crosstalk].

Steve:                   You were very polite that day.

Matt:                     If I’m not polite to you, there’s a damn bloody good reason because I am a nice guy. So if you see me not being nice to someone, there’s a reason for that. It might be the fact that they sabotage my peanut butter sandwich with a tin of bloody oily tomatoey tuna. That was the weirdest thing I ever had. And I tried to have a bite.

Steve:                   You were polite.

Matt:                     And you even said, “Hey, what do you think of that?” And I was like, “Oh Steve, I honestly don’t think I could eat this.” And what spun me out, the other guy that was seasick, was lying down seasick, going oh I’m going to be sick, “Oh I’ll have it.” I was just like, you freak. He was like, “I love this. Is this one a Steve-O’s special sandwiches?” And I was just like, this is the most disgusting. And I had to, I’ll be honest, I thought that was the most disgusting thing I’d ever eaten. Then he had this crazy idea about, hey, would you just like a peanut butter sandwich? Steve, that’s wonderful, thanks mate.

Steve:                   It was quite funny because, and I’m going off topic a little bit, but every week I bring in a loaf of bread for everyone here. And I started off doing that and it’s the weird bread that I make. And I thought everyone was just being polite saying, “Oh yeah, it’s nice, we like your bread.” And I’m going, “No you don’t.” it’s just healthy shit.

Matt:                     I’m honest about this stuff.

Steve:                   Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But Mick had a big slab of it yesterday.

Matt:                     Oh yeah, I know, and they genuinely love it.

Steve:                   They do. They go through it. But it’s like, I just can’t believe it because this is a weird tasting thing.

Matt:                     Yeah.

Steve:                   But yeah, you’re so polite about it. Really, I know this is a weird thing to eat.

Matt:                     Yeah, it was very strange.

Steve:                   It’s weird.

Matt:                     So yeah, vegemite don’t trust Steve-O’s judgment about vegemite.

Steve:                   But on good news with yeast.

Matt:                     Yeah, so back to the point, whatever you were talking about.

Steve:                   It’ll help your irritable bowel syndrome if you’ve got Saccharomyces . So the Boulardii helps diarrhea predominant irritable bowel syndrome dramatically.

Matt:                     Yeah, nice.

Steve:                   In a randomized trial. But I’ve got some, I’ve got a weird one here. This is a weird one, published in the International Journal of Cardiology.

Matt:                     Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Steve:                   I mean, okay, what the hell’s yeast got to do with that?

Matt:                     Yeah.

Steve:                   Well the title says probiotic theory with Saccharomyces Boulardii for heart failure patients in a randomized trial. And what they did was they gave people with heart failure, that’s when your heart is failing, I’ll keep it simple for multiple reasons. A lot of people die this way. And what happens is the left side of your heart, which is the type of your heart that pumps the blood around your body. So it’s the most, it’s all important, but that’s a really important one to get around your body. That just fails and doesn’t pump as hard and you die. And you get filled up your lungs with liquid because the right side fails. But the left side fails and what they found was the ejection fraction when they had the Saccharomyces increased.

Matt:                     So it makes her heart muscle.

Steve:                   Stronger.

Matt:                     Or the left ventricle more powerful.

Steve:                   Yes, in failing hearts. So it’s going like this. You give them the Saccharomyces and it improved.

Matt:                     Yeah, right.

Steve:                   It didn’t just go, oh it’ll stop. It actually improved.

Matt:                     What?

Steve:                   I mean how weird is that?

Matt:                     Because it does stuff for cholesterol and that too, doesn’t it?

Steve:                   It does. It reduces your VLDL cholesterol, the very bad cholesterol.

Matt:                     At the start in my weird ass intro, one of them. I think I mentioned, because I had a couple of cracks at that, I forgot I was talking about. But I mentioned that I believe that this yeast could be the missing link between a lot of dietary benefits that we see like the Mediterranean diet and all that sort of stuff because this bug, what it’s capable of doing when it feeds on, when it lives inside you, when you give it certain food, it makes its own enzymes to digest things. And it’s not us. You’ve got to remember it’s something else. It’s something else that’s chosen to partner with us.

Steve:                   Yes.

Matt:                     Or reside within us or something like that. So this particular yeast has the ability of getting nutrients, and just simple food and fuel and making things that we can’t make such as folate and B12.

Steve:                   Yeah.

Matt:                     It also has this freaky ability when living inside us of converting oleic acid, which is the active ingredient in olive oil, into alpha linoleic acid, which is our omega six. And then, through that delta 12 desaturate. So we can actually convert oleic acid to omega six. Now the omega six and omega three oils, we’re told are the essential fatty acids because we can’t make them.

Steve:                   We can’t make them.

Matt:                     We can’t make them.

Steve:                   That’s an interesting statement.

Matt:                     Yeah. But if you have a look at a lot of these traditional foods like breads and fermented stuff like grapes, this stuff colonizes naturally on the grape skins, and it’s a big part of the fermentation process for that. But we’ve got to understand that there’s a lot of traditionally made foods that might allow this yeast to live inside us. And you can imagine that if you’re eating good quality breads and having good quality wines as part of a Mediterranean diet, or lifestyle, or something like that, they’re supplying Saccharomyces Boulardii, plus the other fruits. It’s coming. It’s in their environment. Okay, so it’s naturally in the environment. It’s part of the fermentation process naturally.

Steve:                   Yes.

Matt:                     So it’s naturally everywhere. It naturally then can live inside these people and then when they then go and dip their bread into some olive oil and eat it and sip on their wine, the yeast in there can convert the olive oil into an omega three.

Steve:                   Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And this is the crazy thing.

Matt:                     So they can go oleic acid, to alpha linoleic.

Steve:                   Yes.

Matt:                     And alpha linoleic all the way through to linolenic. So you can take plant oils and make it into fish oil.

Steve:                   Absolutely.

Matt:                     Which protects, which looks after your cholesterol, looks after your brain, prevents cardiovascular disease.

Steve:                   That’s exactly right.

Matt:                     Through that mechanism and now you think of it, folate and B12, for homocysteine metabolism. They’re so important. Red blood cell production, all of that sort of stuff. If we look at the fact that there are people in the world that do not eat adequate levels of omega three and omega six oils.

Steve:                   Correct.

Matt:                     Yet they seem to be fine. They have them, and what it might be is this other little bug that’s chosen to live inside you that creates enzymes that you can’t create to create nutrients that you can’t possibly create.

Steve:                   Exactly.

Matt:                     To keep you alive. So we can travel.

Steve:                   Exactly.

Matt:                     Well, I mean I don’t know why else they would be doing this for us. Other than us helping them to travel.

Steve:                   Helping them move, yeah. We are what they call, vectors for these bugs. Now what matters is really quite scientifically fascinating because if you test, and I’m going to say the human body and exclude the bugs in the gut. We can’t make these essential fatty acids. That’s why they’re essential for us.

Matt:                     Yeah, exactly.

Steve:                   We, the human body can’t, but these bugs can. These bugs can live inside us. So on our behalf, these bugs can make essential fatty acids, which therefore makes them not that essential fatty acids.

Matt:                     If you have a look at the whole microbiome itself, as we expanded it a hundred times the genetic material.

Steve:                   There’s tons yeah.

Matt:                     Where we have a hundred thousand years for us to change ours because of our life cycle through generation to generation. These things are reproducing and changing and mutating at such a fast rate. Within a day …

Steve:                   Yes, they change.

Matt:                     They can actually modify to help their survival.

Steve:                   Yes.

Matt:                     So them working with us is really the missing link. But if you have a look at everyone talking about Mediterranean diets or all these traditional diets. We’re talking about all these fermentation’s of foods and things like that. We’re looking at all these different strains. But the fact is these particular yeast, it can explain why foods were great at one stage and we could just eat a certain way with breads, and wines, and alcohols, and our oils, and all that sort of stuff and maintain a certain amount of health.

But now we are living in an age with pesticides and fertilizers and over processed foods and all that sort of stuff and people being over smart, not letting just things naturally ferment. And then also this obsession that we’ve been through with the hygiene hypothesis and making sure that we understand what’s growing in stuff and sterilizing things.

Steve:                   Righty-O. You have it.

Matt:                     You can see this missing link in the sense that if I was to now go and go to my local grocery stores and just follow a Mediterranean Diet as listed in the book without taking my three hour lunch break siestas, and without actually having the traditional bugs and made in a traditional area at a particular room temperature, because room temperature varies depending on the country. Australian room temperature might be very different to the room temperature[crosstalk]

Steve:                   It’s really hot.

Matt:                     … in France or the room temperature in somewhere through the Mediterranean or something like that.

Steve:                   Yeah true.

Matt:                     So I always look at those sort of things, different humidity, different … They all totally change the bugs. So the Mediterranean diet followed using traditional Mediterranean methods, eaten in a Mediterranean style may have a totally different effect there than in Australia.

Steve:                   Yeah, incredibly.

Matt:                     What we might need to do in Australia is go back and go, okay, so yeah, I can do that, but I might need to go back and take some more Saccharomyces  to make sure I’ve got some live bugs in here to process these foods properly.

Steve:                   There’s so much benefit to the taking those bugs.

Matt:                     I was just thinking yeah, these might be semi-essential. We talk about essential nutrients. They may not be essential nutrients at all. It’s conditionally essential depending on what bugs live inside you, is my point. This is the thing. Someone might not need to ever supplement with these particular oils or something, may find no benefit from omega three fish oil at all, or olive oil in particular. They might find no benefit from that and might all be purely to do with the bugs that live inside your gut.

Steve:                   Well absolutely.

Matt:                     And how it processes.

Steve:                   Also humans can make oleic acid by delta nine desaturation from saturated fat. So we can do that. [crosstalk]

Matt:                     We can take our saturated fat out of the meat, or a nut in a seed, and our body has the enzymes to convert it to the same chemical that we’d find in a beautiful olive oil.

Steve:                   Oleic acid, correct. Which is omega nine.

Matt:                     What we can’t do inside our body is convert omega nine oleic acid through to the omega sixes and three. And in fact, we have to, this is why we’re talking about the essential fatty acids. They only talk about sixes and threes as the essential fatty acids because everything else we can make from other precursors. But knowing the difference between these enzymes that are missing in us is actually in a compartment in us. It’s isolated into our gut.

Eating these foods and having these bugs in our guts means we are capable of converting it through, which is why we see different people in different colonies or tribes in different regions of the world. Someone in the deep inland that’s got no access to seafood. I mean they live …

Steve:                   They’re fine.

Matt:                     Yeah. Their body has a way of balancing out their oils and then conversely, the Eskimos and that sort of stuff, which don’t maybe grow a lot of nuts, and seeds, and fruits, and vegetables for the [inaudible] and they [crosstalk]

Steve:                   It’s too cold for nuts.

Matt:                     Yeah, so they eat all of their stuff. Yeah, their nuts shrink.

Steve:                   They do, yeah. Absolutely That’s sort of where they are.[crosstalk]

Matt:                     So what you’ll find is with the Eskimos, they can have a diet predominantly based on the fish oils, but still be able to generate the oils they need for their ice structures that other people would get from nuts and seeds because of the conversion. And maybe it’s the bacteria in their gut. That’s the missing link.

Steve:                   Yeah.

Matt:                     What are you laughing at, nuts in your eyes or something.

Steve:                   I was just trying to think of about.

Matt:                     You imagined a Roman helmet didn’t you?

Steve:                   Exactly. I couldn’t help myself.  I find it amazing that, take the average oils in central Australia, which are probably maybe two to 3000 kilometers from the coast, in all directions. They’d never be exposed to seafood.

Matt:                     No.

Steve:                   Ever, and inland fish would be in desert and they thrived.

Matt:                     Yeah, yeah.

Steve:                   Yeah. So there’s something more into this and these sorts of bugs, I think are a part of it. Making essential omega linoleic and linolenic acid from these bugs, not from the body because we’ll get hate mail about that because no they’re essential. We’re talking about a bug, it’s a different genetic material. So you talk about the a hundred times genes. The way if you really want to change your genes in a good or bad way which you want do it. If you took one antibiotic, you would change the genes dramatically. You’d wipe out billions of bugs.

Matt:                     Yeah, exactly.

Steve:                   You took a Vancomycin or poorly absorbed one, it goes through your gut to kill.

Matt:                     And so your genes can change-

Steve:                   You got clostridium, you need new jeans.

Matt:                     Exactly.

Steve:                   Yeah.

Matt:                     Different type of jeans. J-E-A-N-S.

Steve:                   Yeah, yeah that’s right. Those jeans.

Matt:                     That’s clean, man. [crosstalk]

Steve:                   That’s clean. That one, I don’t know. Is explosive diarrhea. We can talk about, I guess we can, can’t we.

Matt:                     I don’t think it’s offending anybody.

Steve:                   No it’s not. Exactly. So, that’s that hospital study. Here’s that study showing it can help reduce our cholesterol. And that’s interesting because cholesterol treatments have had a bit of a, with the statin drugs [crosstalk]

Matt:                     But can you supplement, can I go and buy Brewers yeast and Baker’s yeast and just supplement with that?

Steve:                   You can.

Matt:                     It’s alive and all that sort of stuff.

Steve:                   It will be until you eat it and that’s fine. It’ll die in your guts.

Matt:                     But they did say, what …

Steve:                   It’s still beneficial.

Matt:                     Are you talking about Cervazia now [crosstalk]. So if I go and buy those bread making, bread rising, yeasty stuff. So, that’ll be Saccharomyces Cervazia. It’s alive for the process of proving the bread. At the moment I cooked that dough, it’s going to be hotter than 37 degrees. So, I’m going to cook it out.

Steve:                   Absolutely. It will die and that’s fine.

Matt:                     But what if I eat it without killing it?

Steve:                   It’s fine. Brewers yeast is-

Matt:                     It will grow inside you.

Steve:                   No it won’t grow inside you. But it’d be a great source of things like for example, it makes a lot of folate.

Matt:                     Is that right.

Steve:                   And those sorts of things. And in the olden days when you couldn’t get selenium in Australia, I was getting brewer’s yeast that was enriched with selenium.

Matt:                     Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Steve:                   That was the loophole in the law that-

Matt:                     Well, that’s not such a bad thing because from my understanding with that, there’s different ways of doing it of course. But you can either make a slurry or a cup of tea or something with nutrients, throw in some single cell organisms and they soak it up and they get deactivated, meaning we kill them with heat, sterilize them, and then they sell them as a nutritional … They measure the nutrients in them. What’s interesting about that is, so for example, if I take a B, if I take a multivitamin capsule myself, and in that capsule, I read it, it says thiamine hydrochloride, peradoxime, hydro chlorides and that sort of stuff. That’s because it’s a powdered product and they’ve got to stabilize those vitamins into a salty powdered form or something.

Steve:                   Yeah, yeah.

Matt:                     To be able to make it into a tablet. But when I take it inside my body, they dissociate and then you get certain things. So, when they make these yeasts … So they’re dissolving all these nutrients into the water. They’re putting these yeasts in it. As the yeast suck it in, it’s not just a physical process of absorbing it like a sponge. They actually feed on it and convert it. And in many cases they will also put in other substrates, meaning I’ll put in some amino acids and some sugars and things like that. So they can utilize the raw ingredients they need to make more vitamins.

Steve:                   Yeah. So the Cervazia  he makes heaps of folates.

Matt:                     So with selenium for example, you put [selenimithyaline] in the water, they add [seleniestine] and-

Steve:                   Probably sodium selenite, the cheap one.

Matt:                     Exactly.[crosstalk]  because as it absorbs, it changes it into its organic form, which would be that-

Steve:                   Selenomethionine, yeah [crosstalk]

Matt:                     So they had it either the wrong way round. So sodium, so you make a sodium selenite.

Steve:                   Yeah, the cheap on.

Matt:                     The cheap and nasty one. When you feed that to a yeast, it actually utilizes that selenium and incorporates into its tissues, which is why it changes it into its organic form. So it’s not just a sneaky way of doing selenium. It’s actually a better way of doing selenium.

Steve:                   It is a better way of doing selenium.

Matt:                     So with other nutrients, so we can create a lot of other nutrients from these yeasts as well. There’s some instances you can just kind of soak in a synthetic blend into it. The problem with that is if not converting that [paradoxine] hydrochloric into the nine forms of B6 that we would find in an organism, then we’re just stuck with the wrong forms.

Steve:                   Exactly.

Matt:                     The other thing is what we’re talking about is other nutrients. So, it does convert them. So folic acid, if I was to put folic acid into a water and give it to a yeast, would it convert it into methyl folate?

Steve:                   It doesn’t need to. It can make folate straight from yeast. For example, there’s rye flour and water. It increased the folate contents of that. So it actually grows its own folate. The only problem with why you have to folic acid fortify things is because that’s heat stable. Folates are damaged when you therefore baked the bread. So the brainwaves is to add the synthetic one back later on, which I think is a terrible idea. And I think most people do it.

Matt:                     Because the thing is, is I believe in the future there’s a lot of … So the big movement in food security in the world’s looking at various forms of biotechnology, which is lab grown food. With a lab grown food, you have the ability to get genetically modified yeast and bacteria, feed them stuff to pump out specific vitamins and that sort of stuff, and then those vitamins are then purified or actually made more pharmaceutical by adding to things to make it more stable or converting them into other things once they’ve been made by the yeast and bacteria.

So the future of food fortification and food security. There’s a big opportunity there to use these sort of yeasts and bacteria to actually feed that, to create similar, what it happening in our stomach and following the laws of nature. If we provide them with a correct substrates and not being too clever. But we provide them with their favorite foods in the right environment, they should have the ability to generate nutrients exactly the same way that our body would generate nutrients out of the substrate from our food or exactly the same as what happens in our gut. But we talk about vitamin K. We talk about B12 those sorts of things we need. They’re all made by microbiome in our gut feeding on plant matter.

Steve:                   Sure.

Matt:                     So the future of food security and standardizing or ensuring that our food has a certain amount of nutrients, might be fortifying our foods with nutrients made through natural fermentation or natural processes without having to go GMO sugars, and without having to go GMO bugs in a natural format. You could pretty much make a lot of these things.

Steve:                   Yeah, exactly. And we know that synthetic vitamins have their problems. There was a paper. I haven’t told you about this. It’s a bit without notice, published in [Jama] today that’s going to hit the news. Basically if you take synthetic vitamins as antioxidants when you’re having radio therapy and chemo for breast cancer, it worsens the outcome.

Matt:                     I’m so glad someone’s going to publish that.

Steve:                   It’s published in the Journal of American Medical Association.

Matt:                     Because, man, that’s my biggest challenge when people come to me and say, you know, I’ve been diagnosed with cancer and this is also my biggest hate where people don’t communicate properly. So it’s so many people go to a naturopath, or go to see someone, or they’re trying stuff on the side and they lie to their oncologist and they don’t tell the oncologist what they’re taking because they’re afraid the oncologists is going to think they’re idiots or something like that. But it’s really, and that was the biggest common fault I’ve ever seen because people don’t realize they go, oh, I’m not going to do anything to interact with my radiation therapy. I’m just going to do juicing. Someone said, juicing is good or this herb is really good, or I know tumeric is good for every stage of cancer.

I read that somewhere once, especially with black pepper. This is sort of stuff that these people read. And I’m saying, look, you gotta be very careful. We’re not even going to help you create a protocol until I know what the oncologist plan is. Then I’ll say, oh no, I don’t have my appointment for a couple of weeks. I was just going to try to cure it in the meantime. And then you’ll be just like, yeah, I know. But the problem is, is if you saturate or load up your body was something, you might be protecting your cancer. Radiation and chemotherapy damages tissues in cancer cells, damages tissues.

Steve:                   Yeah, rapidly dividing tissues.

Matt:                     So the theory is as the cancer cells are going to suck this stuff in faster because they’re growing and rapidly dividing, rapidly, faster than anything else. What we don’t want the cancer cells to also suck in are antioxidants and use those antioxidants to saturate their tissue with antioxidants prior to radiation coming in because the antioxidants in the cancer cell will protect it from radiation damage [crosstalk]. And the other problem is you’re just fortifying and strengthening up the cancer cells. They’re getting it, they’re faster than your healthy cells. That’s what we want them doing is to be hungry, starving in poison, sucking in the chemo and the radiation. After it all, then you can go through and regenerate and repair. But you don’t want to preload with antioxidants prior to radiation because it doesn’t bloody work.

Steve:                   Well, exactly. And that’s why rosemary was such a good one for cancer cause it actually stops the detoxification process of the cancer cells. The P pumps are one of the protein pumps-

Matt:                     The protein pump [crosstalk]. Yeah that was a really cool one because one of the ways that cancer cells become resistant to chemotherapy is increasing their ability to suck the poison straight back out. So suck it in one end and pump it out the other and the rosemary block that pump at the other end. There’s also, [reishi] does that too. They got some other ones, but reishi. But you have a look at turmeric’s mechanism of action. Turmeric’s mechanism of action is to slow down the cell cycle, slow down the … So it’s slow, slow, slow, and protect the tissues from any oxidants. Unfortunately if you over saturate or load up on that prior to radiation, you’re actually protecting the cancer cells from all those processes too.

Steve:                   It’s tricky, tricky stuff. I went to an oncology conference years ago in America and they’re giving people lactic acid just because the cancer cells feed a lot of sugar and they pump out lactic acid at a concentration gradient. So there’s a lot of lactic acid out there, they can’t pump it out and they die of lactic acidosis.

Matt:                     Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Steve:                   So it kills them.

Matt:                     Oh, hang on.

Steve:                   Yeah.

Matt:                     I’m hoping people out there are just making the connection. What you just said.

Steve:                   What was that, the connection about lactic acid?

Matt:                     No, cancer can’t live in an acidic environment.

Steve:                   Well, well it’s …

Matt:                     Remember the statement, Oh Mike won a Nobel prize because he said cancer can’t live in an alkaline environment.

Steve:                   Oh yeah, that’s right.

Matt:                     No cancer can live … maybe that’s a whole thing.  …

Steve:                   Yeah, that’s right.

Matt:                     But the reality is it can’t live in acid either.[crosstalk]. Typically, things don’t live in extreme environments [crosstalk]

Steve:                   Except the bugs they call extremophiles.

Matt:                     Oh yeah, the extremophiles.

Steve:                   I love the name of that thing. It’s quite funny.

Matt:                     Yeah. That’s my actual webpage and I’m …

Steve:                   Extremophile.

Matt:                     Yeah, you should see the videos on that, much better podcast.

Steve:                   So anyways, they pump him full of lactic acid. Can you think of any other way you get lactic acid in your body without frigging putting and IV of lactic acid.

Matt:                     Maybe exercise.

Steve:                   Exercise. That’s how one of the mechanisms by which is handy. Cancer. It’s funny because they say acid grows cancer. Well if you exercise, you get cancer.[crosstalk] Yeah.

Matt:                     Inhibit angiogenesis, because without it getting a good oxygen supply, it’s mitochondrial respiration results in lactic acid of its own and it can kill itself through self destruct mechanisms by saying you’re not viable.

Steve:                   Yes.

Matt:                     You’re a fool. Look at ya. Take a look at yourself. That’s the whole, that’s the metro pathic philosophy around cancer, isn’t it?

Steve:                   It’s terrible.

Matt:                     Slow down the cell cycle.[crosstalk] We need to just slow down and stop and take a look at yourself.

Steve:                   Take a look at yourself.

Matt:                     Then if you realize you’re a deformed mung cell, then you might as well take yourself out.

Steve:                   And usually it’s fired an enzyme called P53 which is a thing that slows down the cell cycle by inhibiting [cyclin] [crosstalk]. Yeah and all that and things that up regulate P53, like tumeric and excise and all these sorts of goodies. It’s funny because you mentioned acid before. I just remember I gave you an apple this morning, which is going acidify your gut when the short chain fatty acids breakdown.

Matt:                     Well thank goodness because that’ll localize my body.

Steve:                   Yeah. What is that? Because it causes loads of butyric acid, propionic acid, [valorinic] acid, in your gut. That causes cancer. So do apples give you cancer of the gut or …

Matt:                     Maybe the Saccharomyces live. What environment do they love? They live in the lower part …

Steve:                   Heart, yeah.

Matt:                     So, that’s a very alkaline environment and we need lots of acid in the stomach. So they survive the acid in the stomach, they can also survive the acid in a lot of brewing. Hey, you know how you said that bread, baking the bread kills it. But is it still alive in beer, and wine, and that sort of stuff that hasn’t been heated up.

Steve:                   Eventually what kills it is, you’re going to love this, is ethanol because it dehydrates the cells because eventually … That’s why beer doesn’t keep and it explodes. The ethanol, which is typically or alcohol, keep it simple, grows to a point of percentage. And then at that strength, that’s when that particular strain of that bug die. So it might be about 5% for the year, or 4.7 or whatever, and the alcohol goes to that level and then the bug dies and there’s no more alcohol produced.

Matt:                     Yeah, right.

Steve:                   And I know there’s a formula and trick to that and that’s why if you don’t get …

Matt:                     My dad didn’t.

Steve:                   Didn’t make [inaudible] beer.

Matt:                     Oh the constant, bang, bang, bang, bang. Especially if it goes, “Oh, I might add a bit of honey or something to this one and try something new.”

Steve:                   Oh, a bit more sugar. And of course sugar, of course, is the food for these bugs and that’s why, and that’s not a problem. But that’s when you get back to the Candidas and these sort of ones where that’s why the Candida diet was a low sugar diet. It had nothing to do with the yeast in bread. In fact, if you take the yeast from bread[crosstalk]

Matt:                     It’s going to prevent Candida[crosstalk] We want to eat the yeast.

Steve:                   Yes.

Matt:                     And we want it to colonize. But want to look for the Saccharomyces. So look for foods that are traditionally made. Okay, we want things fermented through a normal process. We want our whole foods used. We don’t want to heap of weird preservatives and that sort of stuff in our food or we’re going to have no viable yeasts. It’s a good idea for everyone to do periodically. Maybe take a supplement with Saccharomyces Boulardii that’s stable, that’s been sold as a supplement to be live organisms growing inside you just to colonize them and get them to grow.

Anyone that’s taken an antibiotic, man definitely, just do this to prevent the Candida and the clostridium and keep the guts a little bit under control. Any other instances? I mean travelers diarrhea is another good opportunity for this [crosstalk]

Steve:                   Diarrhea is [crosstalk]

Matt:                     Travelers diarrhea is kind of cool because if this is shelf stable, you can travel with [crosstalk] not have to keep it refrigerated and you can stop some of that traveler’s diarrhea when you head off to places with lower hygiene.

Steve:                   Yeah, of course.

Matt:                     Even athletes that travel, I’d be inclined to kind of supplement with something like this during my traveling. Because if you reduce gut derived inflammation, you maintain performance. If you can prevent infections and diarrhea’s and that sort of stuff.

Steve:                   And stress inducing. Here’s a funny thing, you’re recommending your supplementation of this. Now what ATP doesn’t have is a Saccharomyces. So we’re recommending a product that we don’t make, isn’t it?

Matt:                     Yeah, no, that’s all right.

Steve:                   It’s fine. And this is where this is what’s different about these sort of podcasts? It’s for information purposes.

Matt:                     Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. But no, but this is the thing too. Some people can get it through foods. Other people can get it through supplementation. I really think it’s important. We make essential fatty acid products. And I know for a fact that if someone’s got was loaded up with Saccharomyces Boulardii, a good plant based essential fatty acid product would work a hell of a lot better because it has the ability to interchange between the different forms depending on what your body needs. When a company is formulating a product like that, we try to pick what most people would need. But there’s these missing links like these bugs that have the ability modulate it through.

Steve:                   It’s just cool, isn’t it?

Matt:                     Same with Candidas [crosstalk] and all that sort of stuff. So we can wipe out those.

Steve:                   So when we get the email saying that the body can’t make central fatty acids, we can say no, the body can’t but the bugs can.

Matt:                     Yeah, yeah, that’s right. If the bugs live inside your body, well.

Steve:                   You kind of can, you’re a package, aren’t you?

Matt:                     There’s a compartment in there.

Steve:                   Yeah, yeah, yeah. There is a compartment. So I mean, there’s really cool information on these, heart failure, all these sorts of things, Crohn’s disease of course. So any of the inflammatory bowel disease, it’s beneficial for. It helps with intestinal permeability. So it helps heal that up. It’s really good stuff.

Matt:                     I’m going to go get some now, actually. I’m going to go out and take a course of it again. But yeah, I reckon … No, that’s really cool man. And I’m going to look more into this and keep an eye out for it because I’ve got a feeling. at the moment you’re going to see a lot of nutritional yeast products that are dead forms of Saccharomyces. And you’ll see these vitamin complexes and like you said before, the selenium that we use is from the yeast. So basically, what you’ll find is in the future, you’re gonna see a lot more of those things.

I want you to know that nutritional yeast are typically deactivated and dead. They’re not having that probiotic effect. But as a dead bug, they have a mod biotic effects or cytokine modulation and that sort of stuff. So just keep an eye out for these sort of products now. You’ve got a bit more understanding the difference between Saccharomyces and Boulardii. You’ve got a bit of understanding between the live and the dead, the nutritional forms, how and when to supplement and why you would supplement and that sort of stuff. So hopefully it helped a bit and I’m improves your [crosstalk]

Steve:                   We’ve got to remember that they’re both still have health benefits for the human body.[crosstalk] They’re not, well one’s really good and the other one’s not so good. I mean, Cervazia is great for IBS and all sorts of things. Good for your skin here. Boosts [T-up] one response, increases interferon gamma …

Matt:                     And like we’d find in natural medicine. You want the diversity, multiple different forms of things have different benefits.

Steve:                   There was something funny here. The Cervazia actually increases and decreases interleukin six and human necrosis factor depending on what the body needed.[crosstalk] as they were studying with the references.

Matt:                     So we talk about that immune seesaw being, immune system being like a seesaw. So it has the ability to, to flatten your seesaw, whichever direction a change.

Steve:                   Absolutely. It, it actually …

Matt:                     Anti allergy, anti infectious, anti fungal, anti parasitic.

Steve:                   It’s really-

Matt:                     It really creates a lot of nutrients. That’s the really cool thing.

Steve:                   It is. It’s a wonderful nutrient-

Matt:                     It supplies enzymes we can’t.

Steve:                   Yeah.

Matt:                     That’s wicked.

Steve:                   And also easy yeast. So don’t go yeast and think of yeast infections. I mean it’s like bacteria. Some of them will kill you and some of them are very, very good for you. In the olden days, the past [inaudible] days, they thought that these bugs are evil and we have to kill them all. Now we know that the bugs are our friends and we need them and want them. And same with yeast.

Matt:                     And if you’re killing off something, something’s going to take its place.

Steve:                   Exactly. C diff.

Matt:                     Yeah, exactly.

Steve:                   And this is huge. I mean this is a really huge problem in hospitals. Beck comes home and,  I’ve had another C. diff or what do they call them? Code browns. I don’t want to go into detail, but that’s what they call them. If there is an explosion in the bed, which they don’t like. They really don’t like that.

Matt:                     No, I bet.

Steve:                   No, it’s bad for all concerned, not just the nurses.

Matt:                     They run for the code blue, towards it and run away from the code brown.

Steve:                   That’s exactly right.

Matt:                     Well let’s just stop.

Steve:                   Let’s stop with that, what a highlight.

Matt:                     Thanks everyone for listening. Hopefully you get a lot out of that. Keep in touch and we’ll do another one next week on something else.

Steve:                   Absolutely.

Matt:                     I did the worst intro and the worst outro.

Steve:                   Outro. We’re going to do it on something else.

Matt:                     [inaudible]

Steve:                   It could be something else.

Matt:                     What we say.

Steve:                   Oh, absolutely. It’s been fun talking about yeast today.

Matt:                     Yeah. No, it’s good fun. We kept the clean.

Steve:                   Yeah, absolutely.

Matt:                     And thanks for listening everyone and putting up with us.

Steve:                   Yes, no adults in the room.

Matt:                     Alright.

Steve:                   Thank you.

Matt:                     Bye.

Matt:                     Welcome to the ATP project. You’re with your host, Matt, today [inaudible] and Steve-O.

Steve:                   That’s it, that’s it.

Matt:                     [inaudible] Laughter. Let’s start this again.

 

References:

1. The antagonistic effect of Saccharomyces boulardii on Candida albicans filamentation, adhesion, and biofilm formation. Krasowska A1Murzyn ADyjankiewicz AŁukaszewicz MDziadkowiec D. doi: 10.1111/j.1567-1364.2009.00559.x. Epub 2009 Aug 5.

2. Effect of the Probiotic Saccharomyces boulardii on Cholesterol and Lipoprotein Particles in Hypercholesterolemic Adults: A Single-Arm, Open-Label Pilot Study. Jennifer Joan Ryan, ND, MS,corresponding author Douglas Allen Hanes, PhD, Morgan Beth Schafer, MA, Jeremy Mikolai, ND, andHeather Zwickey, PhD. doi: 10.1089/acm.2014.0063

3. Use of prophylactic Saccharomyces boulardii to prevent Clostridium difficile infection in hospitalized patients: a controlled prospective intervention study. Carstensen JW1Chehri M1,2Schønning K2,3Rasmussen SC2Anhøj J4Godtfredsen NS3,5Andersen CØ2Petersen AM6,7,8. DOI: 10.1007/s10096-018-3267-x

4. Probiotic therapy with Saccharomyces boulardii for heart failure patients: a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled pilot trial. Costanza AC1Moscavitch SD2Faria Neto HC3Mesquita ET1. DOI: 10.1016/j.ijcard.2014.11.034

5. Cytokine and clinical response to Saccharomyces boulardii therapy in diarrhea-dominant irritable bowel syndrome: a randomized trial. Abbas Z1Yakoob JJafri WAhmad ZAzam ZUsman MWShamim SIslam M. doi: 10.1097/MEG.0000000000000094.

6. Influence of Saccharomyces boulardii on the intestinal permeability of patients with Crohn’s disease in remission. Garcia Vilela E1De Lourdes De Abreu Ferrari MOswaldo Da Gama Torres HGuerra Pinto ACarolina Carneiro Aguirre APaiva Martins FMarcos Andrade Goulart ESales Da Cunha A. doi: 10.1080/00365520801943354.