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Episode 195 – Dental Care and Oral Health

In this episode of the ATP Project – Dental Health and Oral Care, Matt, Jeff, and Steve discuss the importance that a healthy mouth is to your overall health. From enamel, digestion and dis-ease they cover an array of thoughts you may or may not have had about your dental hygiene.


Steve:                   Welcome to the ATP Project, my name is Steven Eddie. And today we’re going to be talking about oral health and oral hygiene and what we can do to prevent dental caries and what we can do to find a better toothpaste. We’re going to look at amalgam, as an option, or as a bad option, frankly. We’re going to be talking about all things oral health. We’re going to be talking about the teeth today. So, please sit back and enjoy.

Jeff:                       As always, this information is not designed to diagnose, treat, prevent or cure any condition and is for information purposes only. Please discuss any information of this podcast with your health care professional before making any changes to your current lifestyle. Stay tuned, the ATP Project is about to start.

Speaker 3:           Welcome to the ATP Project. Delivering the irreverent truth about health, aging, performance and looking good. If you’re sick and tired of being sick and tired, ready to perform at your best or somewhere in between, then sit back, relax, and open your mind as Jeff and Matt battle the status quo and discuss everything health related that can make you better.

Jeff:                       Welcome to the ATP project joined with your host Matt, Jeff and Steve, good day Matt.

Matt:                     Hey guys.

Jeff:                       Matt, today we’re talking about the mouth and oral hygiene and it’s funny, because you know a lot of people don’t realize … and just talking with you guys quickly before we started the podcast, just to how important the mouth is to your overall health. Now, we have mentioned before in a couple of other podcasts about certain aspects, but it’s time to recap, there’s been a lot more updated information coming out, Steve and Matt. So, where do you guys want to start?

Matt:                     Well, let me give a quick summary why it’s important, just the relevance. What a lot of people don’t realize is that the mouth itself, of course it’s the portal to your digestive tract, I mean it’s hard to, that’s the direction-

Steve:                   How did you describe it before, Matt? It was the-

Matt:                     I explained that the eyes are the window to the soul and that the mouth is the portal to your poo. But the big thing is you got to understand the importance of the mouth. What it does is, as we’re eating food, it’s telling the rest of our digestive tract what to expect. So, it’s measuring carbs, it’s measuring acid, it’s measuring acid base balance. It’s also measuring the protein levels and getting an understanding of what’s coming through to send signals to the rest of the body to prepare for the digestion.

But also, even though we’ve talked about the sweet taste buds that we find on the tongue, exactly the same receptors are found in the fat cells inside our body. So when we get signals from our mouth to say that this is coming through, the body starts preparing for those foods.

So, the mouth is very important, again, to start the digestive process to break it all down and that sort of thing. A lot of us just look at the mouth in regards to just chewing things up to get to the stomach, but there’s a lot of signals and that are coming from the mouth to the body to tell about priorities. If you consider that the digestive tract is our first line of defense, well, the mouth is the gatekeeper to the digestive tract.

So, it’s very important to look after the mouth, because any signals coming from the immune system in the mouth, any inflammatory mediators, any of those lipopolysaccharides, those bacterial cell fragments and different fragments of bugs that show signs of rotten food, or that you may be eating toxic foods, or you might have eaten … maybe you get food poisoning or eaten a poison or a venom, they all initiate stress reactions and survival mechanisms.

So basically, the mouth itself, if your mouth is weak, if your mucosa has been degraded and broken down, if the first line of defense in regards to your microbiome that lives in the bio barrier, if they are compromised, then you will be getting constant sources of inflammation through your body, constant sources of stress. Now, that inflammation and that stress, regardless of the cause of the inflammation and stress, contributes to cardiovascular disease, contributes to cancer, contributes to our catabolic degradation, rather than our anabolic recovery and repair.

Now, if we consider the mouth, ideally, would be breaking down foods to provide nutrients for our body to use that as building blocks and energy and stuff like that. Instead, the mouth is then sending signals to the body saying, “No, this is stress, let’s flush it away, let’s get rid of it, it’s toxic, it’s poisonous.”

A very simple process of having a leaky gut wall in your mouth could actually change your whole body priorities from anabolic and healthy, into catabolic and short term survival. And because it is constant, it’s not going to sleep when you go to bed, and all that sort of stuff, that’s when all this stuff happens and throws out. 24 hours a day, seven days a week you can have a source of inflammation and a source of stress that’s coming from your mouth that’s putting your body into a state of disease. So, it’s extremely important.

And funny thing is, it’s something that as a naturopath, it wasn’t something I did a lot with unless someone actually complained it as a priority. And it’s funny, it’s something I think it’s a big priority and not many people realize the importance of it, but there’s also a couple of very simple patterns, if we understand microbiome, acid and base balance in the mouth, sugars and that sort of stuff. If we understand how these things influence our oral health and if we can give some people some signs and symptoms that they can assess their own teeth and then know if they’re on the right track or the wrong track and then we give you some tools and that sort of stuff that you can use to improve your oral health.

Steve:                   Yes, absolutely.

Matt:                     So, that’s a summary of what we’re doing today.

Steve:                   Yeah, absolutely and it’s critical to identify what causes dental caries, how to prevent them, what to do if you get one, what fillings can we use, and all these sort of other things. What causes them, the bugs that cause them, like strep mutans, that’s a classic one. And of course, we’re getting ahead now with this one, but lactobacillus acidophilus causes dental caries, because it’s a [crosstalk 00:06:01]-

Jeff:                       Say from yogurt. No?

Steve:                   Yeah.

Jeff:                       So, in terms of, obviously the different diseases, Steve and Matt, do you know, obviously cavities, would that be the number one dental issue, would be cavities?

Matt:                     Yeah, gingivitis.

Jeff:                       Gingivitis.

Steve:                   Gingivitis is inflammation of the gums and also the buildup of plaque, which is a harbor town, it’s full of glucans, which basically harbors bacteria to allow the teeth to rot.

Matt:                     It’s funny, when I used to drink a lot of milk protein shakes when I was younger, I used to have them on milk, and my dentist said, “Man, the amount of plaque that you’re building up is absolutely huge.” So, I back off the milk, because I can’t even remember who he was, but he said, “Maybe you should back off on your milk because you’re producing so much plaque.”

Jeff:                       With the teeth and cells, if you have a look at the architecture of a tooth. So a lot of people think they’re like a calcium plug, that’s just sitting there, just mash stuff up.

Steve:                   There you go, it’s got the root and there you go., you want to talk about the tooth.

Jeff:                       Well, you better do it now. What’s that? Tell me how your tooth works. It just looks like a shaker full of amino acids.

Steve:                   Well that’s the enamel, the hard bit, the calcium phosphate bit. Then you got the dentine underneath it, which is porous, fairly hard. Then you got the root stuff in the middle, it supplies the blood and nerves and that sort of thing. There’s the three basic parts of a tooth, but you want to-

Matt:                     So the insides are live, it’s got the blood supply, it’s got a lot of organic material. But 20% of the tooth itself, inside, is organic material, which is mainly collagen. So people don’t realize that collagen is the one … So yeah, sometimes you can have a tooth that you bump and it gets loose and then it tightens up again. It’s actually the collagen anchoring it back into the jaw bone that will keep that tooth in place. So, collagen-

Jeff:                       Unless it’s scurvy. Obviously it will weaken your teeth and that.

Matt:                     Exactly. Very good point, this is why scurvy causes disease, because what scurvy is, is not just an immune deficiency, because of a lack of vitamin C, initially it’s a collagen deficiency, which means they have a totally leaky membrane through the gut. They don’t have the ability to anchor their teeth in properly, they don’t have the ability to build collagen into the root structure of the teeth to hold it in. Plus, the gums deteriorate, they fall apart, which leaves gaps between the gum and the teeth to allow infection in, and that infection’s a direct portal through to the body.

We mentioned lactobacillus before. People with HIV and that sort of stuff have got to be very careful supplementing probiotics, because the bugs can get straight through the oral cavity and create a systemic infection, because they’ve got no immune system to keep it out of the way. So, what you’ll find with this collagen is it helps to build it. But what they’ve recently discovered, the enamel of the teeth, the hard shell on the outside is supposed to be just this dentine, this calcium stuff, it’s a hard shell. They believe there was never a collagen aspect to that. They’ve recently discovered that it’s full of collagen. There’s lots of collagen in it and they use hydroxyproline as the marker to assess the collagen levels in the teeth, which is also why your shaker was a good representation of teeth, because … have you got the essential aminos in there?

Steve:                   I have.

Matt:                     Because we made the vegan aminos and we actually made hydroxyproline for vegans, because vegans have a major deficiency of hydroxyproline. Back to your scurvy story, it all starts to make sense, because hydroxyproline is not found in the vegan diet. They have to get proline and vitamin C. And the vitamin C to proline makes hydroxyproline. Hydroxyproline then coats the teeth, hydroxyproline is 30% of the collagen molecule that allows it to have elasticity that anchors the tooth into the jaw as well. So, vegans and people that have gone onto a vegan diet have significantly bad teeth. So the teeth go really bad. And someone that was on an omnivore diet switches to a vegan diet can get very fast deterioration of the teeth.

The main reason why, is because the vegan mouth, because of the fruit and all those sort of different vegetables.

Jeff:                       High acid.

Matt:                     Very high in acid. And also because of the higher predominance of firmicutes, in particular, strep, lactobacillus, that thrive on those sugars, the fruit sugars and everything and make a lot of acid that degrades the teeth. Without the hydroxyproline from the collagen, they can’t protect the teeth from the acid. So, what they’re finding is-

Jeff:                       It’s a double whammy.

Matt:                     Exactly. So, vegan teeth are more predisposed to demineralization, because of the predisposition to an acid mouth. On average across, and we’ll get the references, very important references for all these sort of things and people can access the full text paper and read the whole thing. Like I got a review here on fluoride that I’ll probably list one sentence from, but it’s a 51 page document that I’m not going to read through.

Jeff:                       And mind you, you paid for that document.

Matt:                     Well, yeah, that’s 50 bucks American too.

Steve:                   Jeez.

Matt:                     Yeah, sort of copyright, I can’t just read through. You’ll have to buy it yourself to read it.

Steve:                   You can download an abstract. An abstract is just a summary of the paper, and you can usually get that for free on public.

Jeff:                       And you can be dangerous as well too with those abstracts, just quickly [crosstalk 00:10:54].

Matt:                     Well, oh, yeah. That’s why I get the whole text.

Jeff:                       And it’s their interpretation as well too.

Steve:                   Of course.

Jeff:                       There are many times when Matt’s come back to me, they said, “Look, the abstract says that this is interesting.” He’s read through it, and he goes, “Ah, actually they kind of missed the point a little bit.”

Steve:                   Yeah, they have.

Matt:                     Yeah, when you read the full paper, because they can use the abstract like a brochure. This paper here, the oral implications of the vegan diet observational studies. So, basically you can get that paper, it talks about it all. And it talks about the PH changing and averaging between four and six, which is extremely acidic in the mouth, but those acids are made up of such things as lactic acid. If you get a big build up of lactobacillus in your mouth, and you’re eating a lot of … well vegans won’t be eating the dairy, but if they get a lot of the lactobacillus it actually creates lactic acid, which degrades the teeth and that sort of stuff.

Steve:                   It’s quite bad.

Matt:                     So, if you are like for example, you’re telling that story before about when you had a lot of milk products, so if you had a lot of lactobacillus in your mouth, you have a lot of milk products that have some lactose and everything in it, they make lactic acid, they start degrading your teeth. The body responds with this plaque layer and everything like that. Interesting hey. It’s starting to really be cool. So, if ever you start to look at these patterns, we talk about firmicutes when we talk about gut health, and don’t forget it’s just an extension of that. And anything that’s living in your lower bowels usually come this way I’m hoping. And most of the time it comes through this way, on your food, and on your hands and all that sort of stuff. So, your mouth is going to get a nice dose of that. When the mouth fills up with firmicutes, mainly strep, lactobacillus are the worst ones, hey Steve?

Steve:                   Yeah, the two worst ones, yeah. For dental [crosstalk 00:12:23].

Matt:                     They make you crave sugar as well. So, they make you crave their food. So, they’ll make you crave that sweetness after a meal. They make you crave those things. And then what happens is, you eat them they convert the sugars into acid, that acid degrades the teeth. If you’ve got a weak enamel with inadequate collagen and inadequate toughness to that, then you’re actually pretty disposed to demineralization in your teeth.

Steve:                   So, it’s terrible. And you mentioned collagen, you mentioned the vegan diet, that’s really interesting because the vegan diet is a double whammy. They also have more starches. And you’ve got in your mouth you release an enzyme called amylase, and amylase breaks down starches into sugars. So, you might be eating ” and I’ll use the work complex carbohydrate take,” that’s-

Matt:                     So non-sweet carbs?

Steve:                   Yeah, bread or something. You eat Weetabix and it breaks down the sugar in your mouth.

Matt:                     Yeah. Right.

Steve:                   So you’re actually, as far as your teeth concerned, you’re getting them exposed to sugar. It’s no different. So, you could be eating a “healthy-

Matt:                     And then that sugar converts to acid?

Steve:                   Yep. To firmicutes.

Matt:                     Sugar can kind of like burn things too. Like that glycation process. Just having extra sugar in your mouth with that exposure to that oxygen, because it’s not … We’re talking about aerobic environment here, not like in the lower deep dark corners of the bowel where there’s no oxygen.

Steve:                   Anaerobic, yeah.

Matt:                     So, we got sugars and oxygen and they glycate, and it actually burns. When you oxidize sugars you burn stuff, so it actually just cooks these things away as well. So, you can imagine how powerful it is degrading.

Steve:                   Very bad. I mean, the dental care history was first discovered about 10,000 years ago and fossil recon where they first discovered caries, and it coincided with the grains being farmed. But the first literature of it was in 1634, when they first described dental caries. And dental caries is a generic term just as this being a hole. So they didn’t know what it was, they just found these holes in these people’s teeth. And they went, “Well what’s the causing that?” Of course, they didn’t know. In 1944, they started to just look at bacteria and say, “Oh, yeah, it’s these things that are driving it.” So it’s very interesting the history of it.

Matt:                     Yeah, and remember they used to-

Jeff:                       So you mean they only found it in the 1940s what was-

Steve:                   Yeah, and even very recently with the sRna 16 method of testing DNA of blood bacteria they finally … It’s the mutant-

Matt:                     Because before that it was just like go to a shopping center, and they put some red shit in your mouth, and if your teeth go red, you’re covered in bugs. You need a new toothpaste.

Steve:                   Yeah, and of course those-

Jeff:                       Remember those ads? Remember those ads-

Matt:                     Mrs. Marsh?

Jeff:                       Yeah.

Matt:                     You know what, I have tough teeth.

Jeff:                       Mrs. Marsh-

Matt:                     Better get straighter. We talked about it before. Funny, we all go, “Yeah tough teeth see this fluoride get in.” But we didn’t really acknowledge the fact that she just grabbed the chalk and snapped it. That was their disclaimer to say, “By the way, this fluoride might get into your teeth, but it does make them extremely brittle, demineralize and very easy to break.”

Steve:                   Just snap. Well the funny-

Matt:                     Very sneaky disclaimer put in there, Miss Marsh.

Steve:                   And the incredible thing is that the people who typically treat teeth, which are dentists and oral hygienists go, “Oh, it’s caused by a bug. Let’s give them a dose of mouth wash, which is full of chlorhexidine, which kills all bugs.” Good, bad mummy.

Matt:                     Which is, I mean, most of your mainstream ones that are out there, so I would mention Listerine would be sort of right up there, other ones like that.

Steve:                   That one, I think Savacol contains the potent chlorhexidine, but that’s the one that’s recommended by dentists, because my dentist recommended that to me, and I said, “What are you trying to do? Kill all the bugs in mouth?” He said absolutely. It causes dental caries.

Matt:                     Yeah. And he will … This is a really cool paper that we had before.

Steve:                   Scary.

Matt:                     I found one that showed dental caries in children in particular.

Jeff:                       That means cavities, right?

Matt:                     Yeah. Holes in the teeth in children. There are kids that had a heap of holes in their teeth, had specific bugs that the ones that didn’t have the holes in their teeth did not have living in their teeth. So, when we look at these things, saying, “Yeah, you got bacteria right through your mouth. We got to kill that off.” That’s so dumb, because the reality is, there’s some bacteria that are absolutely essential for maintaining the health of your mucosa-

Steve:                   Of course.

Matt:                     … and building the teeth. You’ve got to have bugs all over your teeth. We just don’t want a heap of firmicutes all over your teeth, because they convert and make you eat the sugars, and the sugars convert to acid and they degrade your teeth. And straight out being associated, in particular strep and lactobacillus, with holes in your teeth.

Steve:                   Yeah, of course that.

Matt:                     So, having antimicrobial is very, very temporary for your mouth, because like I just said, most of this stuff is in your mouth is because you’re coming through, because you’re eating it. It’s just there, it’s on your food, it’s on your hands, it’s on the surfaces, you put it straight back.

So, you wipe out your normal commends of floral that has created a bio barrier that keeps a mouth under control.

Jeff:                       So, that it’s protected and look after it.

Matt:                     Exactly, you’re sterilizing your first line defense so that the next thing that comes in can just thrive.

Steve:                   Yes.

Matt:                     And then it comes in, it doesn’t have to really fully establish and colonize to be able to start feeding on sugar and making acids and rotting your teeth.

Jeff:                       So if these typical mouth wash, the mainstream ones if you like, the ones that you get at the supermarket or you just come in and you bomb the living daylights out of everything.

Steve:                   Savacol, yeah.

Jeff:                       It’s kind of like shock it all. Everything’s dead, right? So, obviously you want to kill the bad bugs. How do you kill the bad bugs and promote the good bugs, because that’s what you want.

Matt:                     Well, that’s why we look at those things that specifically knock out the firmicutes and then support the others. The best ones that shine up, weird stuff like yerba mate, hibiscus, which you can do as herbal teas.

Steve:                   Oh yeah, right.

Matt:                     Cinnamon. Cinnamon is very good for it. Cranberry is excellent. Cranberry’s are really good … And the other cool thing about cranberry is that it supports the production of acamancia, which is a really cool bug that prevents dental carries as well.

Jeff:                       It’s also good for-

Matt:                     Very good for fat loss and geo-metabolism because it-

Jeff:                       [crosstalk 00:17:44]

Matt:                     Exactly. So cranberries, hibiscus, cinnamon, yerba mate, berberine.

Steve:                   Propolis.

Matt:                     Propolis?

Jeff:                       [crosstalk 00:17:56] pretty good, doesn’t it?

Matt:                     Yeah, sometimes. Not the good stuff.

Jeff:                       That’s the bee stuff?

Matt:                     Yeah, it’s the stuff that the bees lie in their hives to stop an overgrowth of certain bugs. Typically, fungi and mold, but royal pollen and that sort of stuff is also another really good way-

Jeff:                       [crosstalk 00:18:09] oil.

Matt:                     Exactly. It’s still popular it’s really good. Also, change in the environment to be less acidic and more alkaline, which is why the bicarb then say post meal, doing the bicarbs. Because your saliva’s supposed to alkaline, not acid. It’s supposed to be. Isn’t it, right Steve?

Steve:                   Yeah, slightly alkaline.

Matt:                     Slightly alkaline, more on the alkaline side. So, if you can have that extra bicarb, even rinsing bicarb would be better than rinsing an antimicrobial wash. But then do an oil pulling and then bicarbs and then that sort of stuff. And there are good levels of minerals coming through, that’s a way to regulate. And also, the biggest thing … and regardless of what supplement you’re taking, I don’t care what you’re doing. We set a protocol GutRight, that specifically designed to knock the firmicutes and support the others. Even if you are doing that GutRight, even if you’re doing the GutRight, three times a day, you can totally offset the effects of GutRight by eating a whole heap of sugary shit.

You have a look at GutRight is there to compensate for the lack of polyphenols in our foods, which has allowed for these firmicutes to grow. But you could override the effects of cinnamons and cranberries and all that sort of stuff that’s in the GutRight, by eating a lot of sugar, because it’s just going to continually feed. And why would they suck in the poison when there is no food there to make them thrive?

So, this is very important for people to realize, especially when we’re talking about mouth, because there’s a lot of … it’s right there, it’s not going through all these phases of digestion where we can pick different types of sugars.

Jeff:                       It reminds me of my son Calvin. So, I want him to eat his vegetables. You’re not going to give him pizza or lollies and then go, “Great, eat that first and now go and eat your vegetables.” I starve him of all that stuff, and he has to eat his vegetables because he’s hungry.

Steve:                   Hungry? That’s awesome.

Matt:                     I had one client that was a real problematic client for me, and they were taking everything. When I was a naturopath, had him on all the good stuff, and it just wasn’t working. And I said, “I just couldn’t understand, are you taking the stuff? Really, [inaudible 00:20:06].” He said, “No I am, I am, it’s so horrible, but I am taking it.” And I said, “How do you take it?” “Well, the only way I can take it is in a glass of Coca Cola.”

Jeff:                       Wow.

Matt:                     So, this guy didn’t drink Coca Cola before he saw me.

Steve:                   So you got him on coke.

Matt:                     I never thought to ask. But what he started doing, because I gave him these supplements that tasted bad, and he tried everything, and he had Coca Cola in the fridge from his home, so he decided to mix. So, he was taking his supplements three times a day with a big glass of Coca Cola. So, it didn’t really matter what we gave him, he was offsetting the effects pretty effectively with the coke.

Actually that reminds me, and this isn’t an intentional segue, there’s a really cool paper I’ve got here on the demineralization, re-mineralization dynamics in teeth and body.

Steve:                   That [inaudible 00:20:49].

Matt:                     It is a really cool paper, because actually it’s got some really cool pictures and shows you how the phosphoric acids and things, how you start off with this normal enamel that’s like a tough brick wall, and then it actually shows how these acids get in and create these holes. And then it goes and shows that you get rid of the acids and the enamel fills back in. So, it’s like a really cool picture that shows how we get these holes through our teeth from these acids, actually just go in and degrade these little spot that they touch. And then once you get them out, then that bit just naturally fills back in. But if you’re constantly reloading the bloody things.

And this was talking about cola beverages.

Steve:                   Well, cola beverages is a double enemy because it’s full of orthophosphoric acid, carbonic acid, and [inaudible 00:21:32].

Matt:                     And remember orthophosphoric acid is even being studied for its ability to digest gallstones and its ability to break down-

Steve:                   Yeah, what the hell is that?

Matt:                     … the calcifications on myelin sheath and stuff. It’s a compounding code, but that’s the one that eats everything away. You put it on your rust and-

Jeff:                       [crosstalk 00:21:46] Is it fan on everything, all colas?

Steve:                   No, no, just a lot of colas, I know about coke because it gives it that nice acidy flavor that a lot of people crave when they quit coke.

Matt:                     When you got that much sugar … If you would work out the amount of sugar that’s in that glass of Coca Cola, for starters, you can’t actually dissolve that amount of sugar in that much water, it’s beyond saturation point. They need to actually add in other forms of acid and chemical reactions to be able to maintain the degree of sugar within a solution. And then the problem is, it’s too sweet so they got to offset it with acids and [crosstalk 00:22:19]

Steve:                   It’s like the classic, in food things, you’ve got acids and the thing that count as acids is sugar. So, if you had lemon juice, but then you add sugar to it, you got lemonade. It tastes great. So you have this … but if you just put sugar in a can of coke, the amount of sugar and someone would drink it, it’d taste too sweet.

Matt:                     I mean my dumb brain’s sitting there thinking, “So if we added less sugar there’d be less acid.”

Jeff:                       That’s where I’m going to.

Matt:                     But now you need to hit the bliss point because it has to do with intensity.

Jeff:                       Yeah, less flavor.

Matt:                     Because you’ve got to get that intensity to hit the bliss point we’ve been trained for, and the bliss point’s a combination of acid, salt, sweet, and umami at a level of intensity that triggers a chemical reaction.

Steve:                   Interesting stuff, eh?

Matt:                     Oh, hell yeah.

Jeff:                       Like I said to Tony today, like I said it’s her 21st wedding anniversary today.

Steve:                   Oh my God.

Jeff:                       I said after 21 years-

Matt:                     What are you doing here?

Jeff:                       … we’ve hit the bliss point. Anyway, but yes, the bliss point. 21 years.

Matt:                     Is that the bliss point? I don’t know. [crosstalk 00:23:15] I’m still waiting for … I don’t know. It’s three lots of the seven year itch. I mean by now are you done? Stuck there.

Steve:                   I didn’t know that.

Matt:                     That’s great.

Steve:                   I was thinking I’d [inaudible 00:23:24] and wish her a happy-

Matt:                     Oh you didn’t say, what?

Jeff:                       Or commiserate our anni-

Matt:                     Yeah, well you’re not on Facebook- [crosstalk 00:23:29]

Jeff:                       Probably more like it. Yeah, but that’s the bliss point. We’re talking about the bliss point. So, obviously you get to that apex point, it’s the same with obviously combining salts with fats and those sorts of things as well too.

Steve:                   Salt cuts through your fat. Acid cuts through fat.

Jeff:                       What are you looking at?

Matt:                     I don’t know, you’ve got a strange look on your face.

Steve:                   It’s not like vinaigrette’s, if you just had the vinegar part, the acidic acid part-

Jeff:                       I’ll tell you what tastes really great, is this popcorn, it’s a natural popcorn that my boys get, which has got a little bit of sugar and a little bit of salt in it. And the combination of the two again, I don’t know what you call it Matt?

Matt:                     I don’t know, I just got the giggles. Just you two talk about- [crosstalk 00:24:06]

Jeff:                       Yeah, it’s that combination of sweet and sour. You know what I mean? Again even with Chinese and all the rest of all that.

Steve:                   Chinese food?

Jeff:                       Once you get those things and they’re sort of hitting both receptors at the same time-

Steve:                   Yeah exactly. And it gives you the bliss point. Absolutely. But the good news is, I’ve got some good news and bad news, toothpaste, or fairly new toothpaste ingredients come in.

Matt:                     But hang on, but who regulates toothpaste? I’m really curious.

Steve:                   Yeah, it’s a cosmetic, it doesn’t come under food.

Matt:                     Because, did … you know toothpaste-

Jeff:                       Yeah, you told me.

Matt:                     You can put stuff in toothpaste you could never put in any lozenge, lolly, supplement or anything because on the toothpaste it says to spit it out, not to be ingested, which means you can get away with all sorts of stuff.

Steve:                   One such ingredient is triclosan, which is a fantastic antimicrobial.

Jeff:                       What’s it called? Sorry.

Steve:                   Triclosan.

Matt:                     [inaudible 00:24:50]

Steve:                   Yeah. It’s funny because it’s not a food it’s been banned, because it’s a toxin, banned to be in contact with foods, but it’s allowed in toothpaste.

Jeff:                       And what does it do?

Steve:                   It kills bugs.

Matt:                     Any bugs.

Steve:                   Any bugs. And of giving all those good news, is it does help get rid of dental caries, that’s good. The problem is, it’s very toxic for us.

Matt:                     Is it any worse than a tea tree? You know, those naturally microbials. Because like a tea tree or something, it just indiscriminately kills things.

Steve:                   Yeah it does.

Matt:                     So if you got a toothpaste that’s full of tea tree oils and those sort of things, is that-

Steve:                   Yeah but this stuff is toxic. It also stuffs up your endocrine system.

Matt:                     Oh, okay.

Steve:                   It’s an aromatase inhibitor.

Matt:                     Oh, really, that’s alright,[crosstalk 00:25:33] I don’t know, unless you have polycystic ovarian syndrome, you’re in big trouble.

Jeff:                       All the mainstream toothpaste have this in it?

Steve:                   No, well yeah. Well, yeah, can I mention the brand, I guess again.

Matt:                     Sure, I mean if it’s got it in there it’s on their label.

Steve:                   Colgate Total. And it’s on the label, I’m not giving it away. It’s up to point three percent because at point three five percent it’s considered a toxin and not allowed in anything.[crosstalk 00:25:54]

Jeff:                       But what if I do a big swirl, is that-

Steve:                   Ah, then you’re in trouble.

Jeff:                       But, and here’s the thing, right, I guess it comes down to one, they would argue, it’s not being ingested, and you must use as directed. So that’s the defense, is that if you put it into your mouth, it must be spit out. It actually says do not swallow.

Matt:                     But how much toothpaste … what are the Colgate Total instructions of how much toothpaste do I put on my toothbrush. Do they actually tell you the dose?

Jeff:                       Yeah, they do.

Matt:                     Do they give you a dose?

Steve:                   About a pea is what’s recommended.

Jeff:                       It doesn’t matter because it’s not to be ingested. You can squirt the whole tube on there, wash it around in your mouth and then spit the whole thing out.

Steve:                   There was a study done on pregnant women that used toothpaste as directed, and they found that in their blood stream, in the baby’s core, it also disrupted the microbes of the baby they were breastfeeding. So, it gets in.

Matt:                     Wow, man.

Steve:                   A lot of people put drugs … if you’re having a heart attack-

Matt:                     No, I could say they don’t have to comply with the laws revolving lozenges, or even confectionary, or even chewing gum. Chewing gum, [inaudible 00:26:54] chewing gum? Just curiosity.

Steve:                   I didn’t look that.

Matt:                     What’s wrong with you Steve? Because we’re told that you got to chew that out, spit that out as well. So they can get away … tampons was the other one. Remember tampons they did never … Because you don’t eat them, you take them out, they could get way with stuff.

Jeff:                       That’s a bad visual.

Matt:                     What if they didn’t use blue water on the tampon ads. You know that blue water to show its absorbent capacity. Imagine if they use red water. Like all of a sudden, they’d be, like, “Get that ad off TV.”

Jeff:                       Off TV still.

Steve:                   Can I give you some more bad news about triclosan.

Matt:                     Yeah, do that.

Steve:                   Published in June this year, it’s basically described here as a universal disruptor of the mitochondria.

Matt:                     Are you serious?

Steve:                   Absolutely. And the beautiful thing about it, it’s these mechanism provide partial explanation for the triclosan’s adverse effects on human reproduction, immunology, and development.

Matt:                     Ah, but put it in your teeth.

Steve:                   Put it in your teeth. And it’s not allowed to be put with food, but it’s allowed to be put on your teeth. Just have a think about that for a second. Now, [inaudible 00:28:04] listed as a poison, the Europeans class it as a poison.

Matt:                     So, it’s obviously allowed in cosmetics, because toothpaste is regulated under cosmetic.

Steve:                   Yeah. There’s one thing that gets you a little bit worse in that too, but if a woman uses it as directed, and this is published this year in a paper, it basically increases the risk of gestational diabetes for the mom.

Jeff:                       What paper Steve?

Steve:                   That was published in Science Total Environment 2018, June. And that was studied on a whole heap of Chinese women. Incredibly bad birth rates became quite huge because of the-

Matt:                     And for a bit of perspective for that too. So, when we talk about these mitochondria, a lot of people think that’s our energy production pathways, but it’s also our active transport pumps for ability to absorb nutrients. It also catalyzes vasodilation, it catalyzes a conversion of nitrites to nitrate. A lot of these different little weird stuff now, for example-

Jeff:                       Yeah, that’s right, the mouthwash-

Matt:                     That beetroot, they’ve done studies on the beetroot, that beetroots are a good source of nitrites, or nitrates that live in the mucosa, the bacteria there converted to nitrites which goes into your bloodstream for nitric oxide vasodilation to prevent cardiovascular disease. This is one of the ways why foods, vegetables prevent cardiovascular disease interacting with a microbiome. Totally wiped out if you use an antibacterial mouthwash.

Steve:                   Amazing, isn’t it? Can I just give you one more bad thing about triclosan?

Matt:                     Oh, sounds fantastic, do it.

Steve:                   It’s triclosan may promote breast cancer progression via estrogen receptor media signaling cascade.

Matt:                     You’re serious? Find out what else that stuff is in for, Steve, I bet you it’s in, I wonder if it’s in deodorants?

Steve:                   No, it’s not in deodorant. I used to make deodorant. They put aluminum clorohydrates in it.

Matt:                     Now, don’t they do antimicrobial stuff as well, in deodorants now to stop the stench?

Steve:                   The aluminum clorohydrate kills everything.

Matt:                     It kills everything.

Steve:                   Yeah, 10% is the dose they do, so don’t breathe if you’re going to use the [inaudible 00:29:58].

Jeff:                       The spray one, use a roll-on.

Steve:                   But in 2010, good news… Yeah, use a roll-on if you need to, the European Union banned triclosan in all products that came in contact with food, but it’s still allowed in toothpaste in Australia. Up to 0.3%.

Jeff:                       It’s not allowed overseas as well, too, though Steve because [inaudible 00:30:13]toothpaste?

Steve:                   No, not in a lot of countries because it was declared a poison by the Australian Department of Health National Industrial Chemists and Notification of Assessments Scheme, but it was allowed up to 0.3% in toothpaste. So 0.31 it’s listed as a poison, but 0.3, so-

Matt:                     But that’s what I’m saying, they’re not telling you how much to dose. So, they’re saying 0.3%, but at what level, because it’s not a percentage. It’s not corrosive if I hit it at 0.5% all of a sudden, it’s like, it’s a dose, isn’t it?

Steve:                   Toxin, yeah.

Matt:                     So it’s a dose dependent toxin, so they’re saying you can add it at a percentage, but they’re not regulating how much we ingest.

Steve:                   Correct.

Matt:                     And they’re not even educating us of what the amount is that if you go beyond, that is all of a sudden at the toxic level of-

Steve:                   Absolutely correct. There was a Professor Walsh at the University of Dentistry that was supported by Colgate, but anyway, I’ll probably just leave that aside, and he said this, in animal studies, the evidence does not translate to humans. There has been no concerns raised on our side that we have seen on the patients. This regards to triclosan.

Matt:                     That’s because of people like that they complain to people like that, who says, no, it’s got nothing to do with it.

Steve:                   Exactly.

Matt:                     It doesn’t get added to any adverse database.

Steve:                   I’ve just quoted studies that you can get off-

Matt:                     But you would never do it, like, seriously man, if I was to go back to my doctor or something like that and say that I’ve suddenly got breast cancer, I feel like my cystic ovaries have got worse, blah, blah, blah, they might go through and have a look at everything, may even talk to me about my underarm deodorant, for my breast cancer, or they might talk about my diet or exposure, they might ask questions or might say, “Jeez, you’re unlucky genetically,” more likely. But I don’t think anyone would go, “Let’s talk toothpaste.”

I would never have considered an antimicrobial agent in toothpaste contributing to hormonal defects in my clients.

Steve:                   That was published Chemical Raising Toxicity 2014, for those who are following. So, it’s absolutely an estrogen receptor media at signaling cascade.

Matt:                     So, that’s all been banned in too-, the other, I found this-

Steve:                   Not in toothpaste.

Matt:                     … massive paper on fluoride, it looks like in Europe they’re banning fluoridation in a lot of the water in Europe, they’re even banning fluoride addition to toothpaste because they’re finding all sorts of problem. The place where they really need to do something about it is Iran, the fluoridation and  the skeletal fluorosis and the amount of fluoride toxicity that’s occurring in certain parts of the world, in particular places like Iran, is contributing to fertility and-

Jeff:                       It’s gone way beyond than just pitting of teeth.

Matt:                     Hell yeah, because the problem is the demineralization of your teeth, in any particular direction, will cause destruction. So, what I’m saying is, too much fluoride in proportion to calciums and things like that, will cause a problem teeth. It’ll cause them to become brittle, it gets them white specks all over them, they break up, does the same thing to your bone. We need to have this right mix of collagen, minerals, and some fluoride. And the fluorides mainly for the enamel, to harden the enamel, it’s not too much in for the other stuff. So, the only time you need that fluoride on your teeth is when you’re going through those growth phases, like, in the children that are building lots of teeth and adding lots of enamel. Because otherwise what happens is the fluoride’s got nowhere to go.

I don’t know if you know this, but there’s massive amounts of fluoride in our foods already.

Jeff:                       I was just about to ask you, where do you get fluoride from?

Matt:                     Wheat.

Jeff:                       Wheat.

Matt:                     Lot of people eat wheat, tea’s the high, green and black tea. Loaded full … Ceylon tea is really high as well, and drinking water in certain places, soya beans, is really high as well, certain herbs and that sort of stuff as well. But if you think about the population out there that put fluoride into the water for everyone because there’s a small group of young developing children that can benefit from the extra fluoride applied to their teeth. But we’re talking sodium fluoride, calcium fluoride, not aluminum, silicon fluoride, just like they put into our water, and we’re talking about on the teeth. But that’s what dentists are for. You go to the dentist and you can do your fluoride treatments and you can control it. The fluoridation onto your teeth through that mechanism.

The big problem is the elderly. They’re not growing teeth, a lot of them don’t even have teeth, they’re not growing bone, they’re trying to remodel they’re bone. So, they’re in a phase of not growing new bone, they’re trying to carve up their old spurs and carve up their osteophytes and try to reorganize a little bit of flexibility and elasticity and restructure to their bone. They’re not building large amounts of bone where they need building blocks on top of building blocks like young children do. They also sit there, not with filtered water or purchased spring water from the alps or whatever, they’re actually using tap water and often, with a pot of tea. And the only thing a lot of this, especially in parts of Australia where we don’t really look after our elderly population well enough, I believe, they’re left with eating bread, stuck to eat bread and drink on cups of tea all day.

So they get actually a lot of problems with too much fluoride which causes a form arthritis, it causes their brain to be slower, dementia and all that sort of stuff. So they’re the biggest, highest risk population. [crosstalk 00:35:20] And they don’t even have bloody teeth, so we don’t even want to be forcing them to consume the extra fluoride. But they’re the group that kind of avoided.

The groups that can afford the dental hygienes, they can go to the dentist, they can have their health cover, are also getting the water filters and all that sort of stuff, so it’s very … there are groups of people that are really suffering. And when you actually look through this 51 page document, that goes through and said, “Hey, these are the benefits of fluoride. This is a review of all the clinical data.” Like I said, it’s 51 pages, but the summary only goes for a few pages. And the summary basically says, fluoride is very good at improving the hardening of the enamel, for this particular percentage when it’s done this particular way.

But it does go on to say that the World Health Organization needs to stop pushing the fluoridation of water and at the same time, pushing the use of fluoride products. Because there is a major problem with fluoride toxicity globally. And this is come now saying that the World Health Organization should be pushing the use of other herbal stuff, tamarinds, and moringa. This is actually talking in other papers saying things like tamarinds, moringa, I’ll published it, we’ll get it up someway for everyone to see this list of things, but telling the World Health Organization to advertise people to do these things, to actually stop fluoride toxicity. Because there’s more problems with fluoride toxicity now across the world than there is with fluoride deficiency.

Steve:                   Well, you put it in the water, it’s basically medication. It’s philosophically, I’m against [crosstalk 00:36:46]

Matt:                     Yeah, but you get some idiot doing it too. I never forget, I come from [McQuay 00:36:49] up North Queens is a bit further up north, and they fluoridate the water in McQuay … There was a phase where it went through the McQuay thing, the newspapers and the local community talking about it, just dodged the water for a few days because the idiot that tips the stuff into the bag put too much in. And there’s a whole heap of people who started going into the hospital with asthma attacks and allergic reactions and they traced it back to the excessive doses of fluoride that went into the water, it’s going to take a little while for us to dilate that. And it’s all aluminum silicone fluoride with the big skull cross-bones that comes out of the aluminum smelters.

Jeff:                       Yeah that’s it.

Matt:                     Then what’s funny, and even this review, it talks about the history of the fluoride, saying that, you got to realize, the majority of the data that we have on fluoride is all about toxicity because that was the concern. They actually initiated all these clinical trials on fluoride to assess its toxicity nature, because everything that lived around these aluminum smelters was dying. So, they tried to justify that it’s not so bad, but then they actually went through and found that maybe it’s even good. And then they went through and said, maybe it’s not so bad and killing, it maybe that’s something else killing it, but these, it actually seems to be really good for their teeth.

Jeff:                       Well, Matt, that’s just alarmist hate speech. All that.

Matt:                     Well not really, because-

Jeff:                       No, I’m joking, Matt, but this is what they say. That is what they say,[crosstalk 00:38:01] you’re alarming the public, actually bloody oath, we are.

Matt:                     Yeah, well this is the other thing too-

Jeff:                       You should be alarmed.

Matt:                     Me personally, at the age of 42, I still don’t have a filling, but I haven’t to the dentist for a while, but I should do that. I’m going next week, so that’s why I’m doing this podcast today. Next week, I might be able to say, man, my teeth are full of holes. But no, but when I was a child, the local council supplied fluoride tablets. It wasn’t fluoride water, it was for children going through a particular growth phase, can take fluoride tablets. Mum does believe that triggered my asthma, and I had a very bad phase of asthma which led to a lot of prednisone and then a form of osteoporosis and all that. But, man, my teeth are tough as nails. I can dig and climb and everything with these things. Yeah, no fillings, but a lot of that would’ve been the fluoride and then that using the Colgate toothpaste my whole life.

But this is just what we did. That was the mainstream in Australia, it’s what we done, and probably got some stomach problems and mental retardation from it, but that’s all-

Jeff:                       Matt, the interesting thing is that, I think a lot of people will be listening to this going, well, hang on, I use Listerine, and I use Colgate, what are the alternatives? There are plenty of brands out there that are natural brands, people use a lot of charcoal, for example, is well too, I mean, there’s coconut pulling, a fantastic thing, the best way to do it, is, like, coconut oil pulling is to do it in the shower, in the morning when you do it, just do it, it only takes a few minutes.

Steve:                   Okay, so there’s all the natural ones which are terrific and charcoal is great, but even if you want to go to a more mild toothpaste, there’s some that don’t have type triclon in it. You got to remember, triclon … If you were to present to a doctor with just huge bad energy, for example, you can’t get anything done, well this chemical also, uncouples your proteins and stops all your energy spinning. There was one study where they compared it to one called dinitrophenol, which is a band uncoupling agent, chemical, this was 60 times more potent-

Jeff:                       60, six-zero.

Steve:                   Six-zero times more potent. A reference toxicology applied pharmocology 2008-

Matt:                     What was that again?

Steve:                   This was the triclosan, was 60 times more potent than the band un-coupler dinitrophenol.

Matt:                     Isn’t uncoupling proteins good?

Steve:                   Not that good, it’s like, it’s good to put your- [crosstalk 00:40:28]

Matt:                     Uncoupling proteins with the fatty acid oxidizes mitochondria.

Steve:                   Yeah, but if you completely uncouple your proteins, you actually get no work done, you get no calcium-

Matt:                     But you’re not, and what actually happens as well, is don’t you get a defect with your fatty acid oxidation where you actually overwhelm the mitochondria with fats?

Steve:                   Yeah, you get disfunction.

Matt:                     And it actually contributes to insulin resistance and [inaudible 00:40:48], so one of the main causes of insulin resistance systemically is the inability for the mitochondria to remove all the liberated fat and burn it so it basically gums up and blocks up, so is that what we’re talking about?

Steve:                   Exactly.

Matt:                     The uncoupling proteins are just driving too much fat into the mitochondria.

Steve:                   Yeah, and also it’s like, uncoupling is like putting your foot on the clutch when you’re driving a manual and it just makes the engine spin and burn more energy, but if you put your foot flat to the clutch, like this thing is doing-

Matt:                     It floods it.

Steve:                   … it just completely stuffs up and causes what they call universal disruption of the mitochondria.

Matt:                     Oh, yeah, so it basically floods the engine.

Steve:                   Yeah.

Matt:                     Floods the engine with fats, you can’t get complete combustion because we need the fats plus the oxygen, otherwise it’s like shit in the cabby, while we’re talking about engine analogies.

Steve:                   You can’t create the ATP to move. [crosstalk 00:41:34]

Matt:                     Yeah, and what happens as well, when you get the shit in the cabby, you blow a lot of smoke if you’re a car. And humans, we don’t have an exhaust pipe to eliminate that waste, so that incomplete combustion results in metabolic waste-

Steve:                   Absolutely.

Matt:                     … that contributes to fatigue, insulin resistance-

Steve:                   Immunology.

Matt:                     … and mitochondria disfunction.

Steve:                   Human reproduction, mitochondria disfunction.

Matt:                     And if that mitochondria is involved in an immune process or a digestive-

Steve:                   Everything.

Matt:                     Or a gut wall to be able to create a nice tight junction between the cells, so that mitochondria defect can result in immune defects, absorption and failure to thrive, leaky gut wall. Is it still called, what do we call it when it’s in their mouth, so it’s still leaky gut wall?

Steve:                   Yeah.

Matt:                     Because it’s a submucosa so, but yeah, so a lot of people talk about leaky gut wall, I don’t think I’ve acknowledged that this might be happening in the mouth.

Steve:                   But it’s not only leaky, you can absorb drugs under the tongue with sublingual drugs. It can be B12, but people do nitrous if they’re having a heart attack, they get nitrous extremely quickly, so it’s already leaky. And so if you’re putting this stuff in your mouth, let’s say you’re using it as a toothpaste like most people are, then it’s going to get in your body.

Matt:                     So, systemically it’s going through your mitochondria.

Steve:                   Even without leaky gut, it’s getting in there anyway. It’s scary, isn’t it?

Matt:                     Yeah, man. It actually really is. It really is, I’ve never considered this, I never ever considered that a toothpaste or a compound that we’re just doing in our mouth would have systemic fatigue. And it’s stupid of me to think because of all that stuff you said, it kind of makes common sense, but I just never made that real connection.

Steve:                   Yeah, it’s incredibly dangerous.

Matt:                     Jeez, I learn a lot more doing this than actually … When you’re in a clinic and you’re in amongst doing stuff, you’re dealing with things as you go. You’re trying to a certain degree, get through the days and get through the appointments. But actually when you stop, sit back, and we do these weekly podcasts, [inaudible 00:43:20] the amount of stuff I’m learning now each week just something new, it’s kind of cool, eh?

Steve:                   It’s incredible. I learn something new when I research.

Matt:                     So, if you think about the mouth, inflammation, immune activity, even structural changes like the movement of teeth and, like, what I said before, my wisdom tooth’s just coming through now, so I must’ve learned, I’ve discovered something new. So, the TMJ, the joint, so we’re talking about structural stuff, inflammatory stuff, immune signals, cascade, priorities in regard to fuel burning, mitochondrial things. So, it’s no surprise that someone that’s putting up with gingivitis and a hole in their tooth could significantly get cardiovascular disease. But I’ve never really linked it through to things like polycystic ovarian syndrome or obesity, I never would’ve thought of that. Or a chronic fatigue-like syndrome, because if that mitochondrial, that could cause systemic fatigue.

Jeff:                       So fixing up your mouth could potentially help with a whole host of disease.

Matt:                     Well, sleep, stress-

Steve:                   Absolutely stress.

Matt:                     … chronic disease, inflammation, you could have arthritic conditions, it might be all initiated by an ongoing inflammatory condition in your mouth.

Jeff:                       So, if you fix the mouth, the body with the right tools might be able to heal itself.

Matt:                     And then you got to realize, it’s going to totally change your priorities when you’re eating. Because you got to remember, if you’re eating, your body’s trying to decide, “What am I eating this for? Am I eating this for regeneration and repair, where am I going to drive these nutrients? Am I going to drive those aminos to turn into sugar because I’m in a stressful environment trying to make energy? Am I going to use this stuff for building blocks, recovery, repair? Am I going to ask that immune system to clean up this mess or tell the immune system to back off?” Like, your mouth will totally change your priorities.

Steve:                   Absolutely it will. And in a hospital even, they’re giving people periodontal check-ups in cardiology.

Matt:                     No, wow.

Steve:                   Yeah, yeah. I just go over and Beck said that to me … who’s a nurse in cardiology, my wife, she said, I said, “Really, they’re actually onto that?” And they’re behind in a lot of other areas in my opinion, but that one I went, [inaudible 00:45:24]. Papers like this one, it’s titled and I’ll just give it away, An Evidence Summary of the Relationship Between Oral and Cardiovascular says there’s a strong link.

Jeff:                       Yeah, and we’ve known that for a while, haven’t we, Steve?

Steve:                   Yeah, yeah.

Matt:                     But even, man, I’ve just, man, my brain’s just rolling through all the different things. Like, for example, the somatopsychic link. One thing I feel really sad when I see this, and I know this is something my mum’s done because she’s done it her whole life because when she was a child, she had some stuff happen with her teeth. But people that cover their mouth, they can’t smile. They actually change the way they react emotionally to things because they’re trying to, they’re self conscious about their teeth. There’s people that all of a sudden they can’t smile, they’re very self conscious, they try to normally do a big belly laugh and enjoy a moment, they’re brain’s quickly flicks to fear of the future if people judge my mouth or experiences from the past. So, it just, the somatopsychic link and the potential for depressions and things like that because you just won’t allow you to just be free within the body you own. Man, there’s so many little links with this sort of stuff.

Remember too, we talked about the elderly and the teeth, another thing with the teeth, smoker’s and that sort of stuff have got really bad teeth. There’s a picture we show people with this cool, it shows the blood vessels that go into the teeth. So, a major problem with teeth is lack of oxygen from the blood supply. In my naturopath clinic, one of the major important things I used to do with my elderly clients, anyone that went on to a statin medication, like a cholesterol medication, that stops your body making coenzyme Q10. Coenzyme Q10 is really important for driving oxygen into your gums.

And remember gums are very different, because your mouth is full of water, when you cut your mouth, it doesn’t clot real easily. So, the blood vessels that run through your gums are very different. They’re, like, little bobbles and it goes from that bobble to that bobble to that bobble, so if you got a wound, it can just shut down that lot of bobbles and you stop bleeding real quickly. Where if it was attached to an artery, it just would never clot, it’d just keep bleeding through your mouth.

So, the diffusion and the transfer of oxygen across those membranes is very different in your mouth to what you’d give a circulatory stem to any other parts of your body. There’s new research now coming talking about topical coenzyme Q10 has the ability to go through and prevent a lot of these problems.[crosstalk 00:47:43] So, coenzyme Q10’s really interesting in particular if you’re someone has a lot of cholesterol issues or is on cholesterol medication, and they’re no longer making it.

Another one that’s really important while we’re just talking about cholesterol medication is the vitamin D’s. Because if you’re blocking the production of coenzyme Q10, you’re blocking the production of vitamin D, you can’t control your mineralization of your teeth and your teeth will rot and guess what you get, cardiovascular disease. And then they say, whoa, you need to get on cholesterol medication, because it’s all cholesterol that’s going to kill you.

Steve:                   It is, it’s terrible.

Matt:                     And this is cool, I never expected to come across so many weird-as things today.

Steve:                   Well let’s take the worst case scenario, let’s say next week you need some fillings filled up, what would you fill that up with? Because there’s a-

Matt:                     Just take the tooth, man.

Steve:                   Take the tooth?

Jeff:                       Oh, jeez, you got a tiny little hole.

Steve:                   You know they came out with a new type of amalgam about a year and a half ago?

Matt:                     What is it?

Steve:                   Really cool, hiring copper. The only problem is a slight side effect, though. Just want to let you know, the title of this paper reads, “Increase Mercury Emissions from Modern Dental Amalgams.”

Matt:                     So, at least it’s more mercury-[crosstalk 00:48:45] They’re finally admitting it?

Steve:                   But more mercury, but this is the scariest bit from this paper, it says, “There exists no limit for maximum allowed emission of mercury from dental amalgams.”

Matt:                     Hey, say that again.

Steve:                   There exists no limit for the maximum allowed emission of mercury from dental amalgams.

Jeff:                       What about-

Matt:                     LED 50 kind of numbers?

Steve:                   No.

Matt:                     So, LED 50 means lethal dose 50 where they kill 50% of the population of this particular dose.

Steve:                   Do you want to know why there’s no limit to the amount of mercury-

Matt:                     I can have a guess, because you’re not-

Jeff:                       Eating it?

Matt:                     … inhaling it.

Steve:                   Well, yes and no, you’re both right actually, it’s because the American Dental Association came out with a new position statement on amalgams.

Jeff:                       When?

Steve:                   In 2016, September 30. And it said, “A recent study blah, blah, blah,” basically, the American Dental Asso-, they’ve been pro-mercury for years. But they came out recently and said, “the American Dental Association examined the study and it’s findings reaffirms its position that dental amalgam is durable, safe, and effective cavity-filling option.”

Matt:                     Otherwise, they’re up for a lot of lawsuits of people coming back to say, jeez, we’ve seen this before, it’s called covering your ass.

Steve:                   Covering their ass.

Matt:                     With wet paper.

Jeff:                       Well, it’s deny, deny, deny, deny, deny, I mean, it’s the same thing with smoking.  Let’s face it, this is nothing new. We’ve seen this before as well too, deny it and then point blank face of absolutely overwhelming evidence, get your lawyers, deny, deny.

Matt:                     And they’re doing it on a round up and everything now too.

Jeff:                       You know, the method of action is different now because it’s in your mouth, the chewing, you can’t inhale it, it’s not getting in, it’s completely … these are all the arguments that they make, right?

Matt:                     And if you go, we should get that full paper and really read through the methodology, see if they eliminated people with mercury toxicity or something.

Steve:                   Oh, these guys?

Matt:                     Yeah, from the study, because it’s funny when you really analyze those things.

Steve:                   It’s just more amalgam coming out, more mercury being vaporized, and then there’s no limit for it.

Matt:                     So, in your chemistry experience, how were you allowed to deal with mercury vapors?

Steve:                   Well, there was two allowable safe-base to store mercury. When we used to use mercury in the industrial lab, we used to pour the remaining mercury in an oil, it was a conical flask, had a special lid on it, air-tight, with a plastic seal on it, and we poured it and went through the oil and sat in the bottom under a big layer of oil. And then you put that at the back of the-[crosstalk 00:51:08]

Matt:                     Is that because of what we call mercury emissions?

Steve:                   Yes. And so then you tighten that up to a certain level and click, click, click, and then you pull the film down so it was on all the time, so it was constant being sucked up these [inaudible 00:51:20] and being filtered out. That’s one allowable safe-space for mercury, the only other safe place is in your mouth.

Matt:                     But the emissions when they come from your mouth are fine.

Steve:                   Absolutely, they’re fine, there’s no-

Matt:                     The emissions in anywhere else is, it’ll kill you. And any other expression of mercury has a toxic level, a level that will kill you or create problems.

Steve:                   And of course we have studies-

Matt:                     But those don’t apply to dental stuff because-

Steve:                   Nothing, no-[crosstalk 00:51:47]

Matt:                     … the Dental Association’s reaffirmed their previous findings that it’s okay.

Steve:                   It’s okay.

Jeff:                       No, but they would deny though that there’s any emission whatsoever from the teeth wouldn’t they?

Steve:                   No, no, they-

Matt:                     No, they’d- admit it. Because they’ve got problems with emissions, but those emissions from dental amalgam is not like mercury from anything else.

Steve:                   No, no problem, completely safe, durable, all that stuff. Except there’s studies showing it causes Alzheimer’s disease.

Matt:                     I mean, they’ve even taken those mercury thermometers over to a different compounds because you put them in your mouth, it’s not safe to put a mercury thermometer in your mouth on the off-chance that you bite it and break it.

Steve:                   There’s now a generalize what they call black label warning for people that have had mercury fillings, they’ve to limit their exposure to electromagnetics fields. So that can be-

Matt:                     What, like, mobile phones?

Steve:                   Mobile phones.

Jeff:                       Oh, well the 5G that’s coming is not going to pose a problem, is it?

Steve:                   Electrical fields-

Matt:                     How you going to do that, no, we got aluminum foil hats.

Jeff:                       Tin foil hats.

Matt:                     Oh no, tin foil beard, I need a tin foil beard to protect my fillings from my frequencies.

Steve:                   Inside you’re surrounded by it, but also outside, the sun give electromagnetic radiation, so you want to avoid going inside or outside, and you’ll be safe.

Jeff:                       So, is that underground?

Steve:                   Something like that. I don’t know what their solution is.

Matt:                     Well, as long as you don’t have WiFi underground.

Steve:                   Basically, they did this test on pregnant women with dental amalgams and it says to really, really limit their exposure to electromagnetic fields to prevent toxic effects of mercury to their foetus’. Wow, based on this finding is infants and children are more vulnerable to mercury exposures, blah, blah, blah. So, you’ve got to limit if you’ve got a-

Matt:                     Oh, jeez.

Steve:                   Also another study in Thailand where it’s … they are 58% more likely to get Parkinson’s disease if you have amalgam fillings.

Matt:                     58% more-

Steve:                   So you’ve got to avoid it if you’re aging and if you’re young and if you’re a woman and if you’re a man, this is [crosstalk 00:53:28]

Matt:                     And inside or outside.

Steve:                   Correct. But apart from that, it’s safe.

Matt:                     I’d like to refuse to identify as none of those things.

Steve:                   Now, the vapor, the vapor itself … Hey.

Matt:                     Hey.

Steve:                   The vapor itself is only released when you use your teeth to do this thing called chewing. But if you don’t chew, it’s fairly-

Jeff:                       That’s so 1800’s. What if you grind your teeth at night?

Steve:                   Oh, well, you’ll die. But also if you breathe too, the vapors also go into the lungs. So if you don’t breathe-

Matt:                     Don’t breathe. Well, what if I only breathe out?

Steve:                   Well you’re fine then, what are you worried about?

Matt:                     What if I breathe in through my nose and out through my mouth only?

Steve:                   Try and do that all the time. Then you’re fine, you’re absolutely fine.[crosstalk 00:54:06]

Matt:                     Well I seem to … Everyone at the home at the moment’s probably (breathes in) (breathes out). It’s really hard to talk and do this at the same time, Steve.

Steve:                   Yeah, it kind of is. But there was a study done on people that had amalgam-mercury fillings removed and a lot of their health issues disappeared after five years.

Jeff:                       I had a lot of amalgam when I was younger, a lot, and I replaced them all with porcelain-

Matt:                     But while they’re in your teeth, don’t you actually get more problems trying to … in the removal process, aren’t you going to emit a lot more?

Steve:                   Short-term, not long-term.

Jeff:                       Just take a lot of-

Steve:                   You’d get benefits-

Matt:                     So we, if anyone’s going to do it, yeah, good work, if anyone is going to do anything about removing the amalgam’s to go to a ceramics, are they good, the calcium-glass ones?

Steve:                   They’re better.

Jeff:                       Yeah, that’s what I used.

Matt:                     The glassy calcium ones, they got nothing too much in them?

Steve:                   No, not bad.

Jeff:                       They’re all.

Steve:                   I actually had amalgam at the dentist when I was about 30, when I was at my first filling, because she said “oh, we’ll just fill this up”, and I said, “What are you going to fill it?” “Mercury.” I-

Matt:                     I wasn’t joking before when I said, remove it. If I was to get a big abscess and rotten tooth at the back and whatever and I’m forty-something now, if I just get them to remove it, it’s not that bad huh?

Steve:                   The very, very back molar is not used as much as the other molars more proximal. So it depends on which tooth you need filling.

Matt:                     Yeah, okay.

Jeff:                       What about … I’ve got something else I want to throw at you, what about flossing? Where does that fall into things?

Steve:                   Well, flossing actually reduce the incidence of dental caries, so that’s good because, and this is where you may, look, and this is where you could possibly use chlorhexidine, I’m thinking of, like, you get those little picky things and you can dip them in chlorhexidine if you’ve got an infection between your teeth and just wipe with that small area, that’s where it can be useful. But you wouldn’t rinse your mouth out.

Jeff:                       That’s what I was going to say, Steve, combined with what Matt said before about, everything from cranberry to what have you, what does perfect oral health-care look like to kill the bad bugs, look after the good ones, to look after your teeth, to make sure that they’re mineralized well, and not impact health, have you got an idea?

Steve:                   First thing-

Matt:                     Good fiber.

Steve:                   Don’t be a vegan.

Matt:                     Yeah, well, no, no, don’t say that, if you’re a vegan, understand that your teeth still need hydroxyproline. So, your sources of hydroxyproline apart from my product flogging I’m going to throw in here now which is our vegan aminos, we made hydroxyproline the same way an animal would, like, a mammal, like us, by eating proline and vitamin C and making hydroxyproline. So, the vegan market can consumer hydroxyproline from our product, alfalfa, Irish moss, it’s the only one I know of, or insects. So, the cocoons and the grass, what the animals do, so with the animals that have hydroxyproline and good teeth, the herbivores, so herbivores eat a lot of insects. But not just insects, bu like, the little cocoon-y stuff that’s in the grasses, all that’s massive amounts of hydroxyproline. There’s a lot of hydroxyproline consumed by herbivores in the animal world.

Human vegans, if they consume the hydroxyproline from insects or supplementation can get the same level of collagen in their teeth and help to protect their teeth. The rest of their problem comes from PH. And a lot of those acid-base balancer, the acid-base balancers regulated by the microbial flora, so doesn’t matter, I don’t care who you are, vegan, or whatever, we need the collagen, okay, so make sure you’re loaded up on collagen for your gums and everything like that.

We also need good levels of quality fiber that will support your friendly bugs and reducing the amount of simple sugars that we’re consuming. So, not excessive amounts of fructoses, sucroses are the worst.

Jeff:                       What about apples? Like, in terms of, that’s got pectin, that’s got good fiber-[crosstalk 00:57:57]

Matt:                     Exactly, so what you’re looking at in a natural state, so when you have a look at fructose incorporated into a piece of fruit, we get the fiber but normally we would’ve got a lot more polyphenols in the peels than we do now. We would a lot more polyphenols, so that’s why we made that GutRight product. We filled it up with the polyphenols and it has, like, apple peel and all that stuff in that product because it’s the polyphenols and the fiber that offsets the sugar in the fruit. So unfortunately, food has changed a little bit, but we need to supplement or fortify our diets with more polyphenols.

So, the biggest problem is juice, that’s the biggest problem with kids.  In my naturopath clinic, the amount of people that would send their kid to bed with a bottle of juice and their children teeth are rotting. And you go, ” Now how come?” “Well they had their milk and they can only have so much milk, so now they wanted more, so I got them juice.” I said, [inaudible 00:58:44] stuff is also-

Steve:                   Even excessive breastfeeding, weirdly when the kid gets tooth, that can be bad for their teeth.

Matt:                     So fiber, good fiber, really good quality oils, so you need lots of good oils and not the bad oils, because a lot of the bad trans-oils and that totally disturb the gut microbiome. So good quality oils, things like coconuts and that stop the adhesion of a lot of the bad bugs. That’s why coconut oil’s excellent for the pulling ’cause it’s got the oil properties to drag stuff out, but it’s also got the lauric acids, palmitic acids that can coat the oral mucosa and prevent infections.

Jeff:                       So, is that something you’d recommend, Matt? I mean, you can just Google-

Matt:                     Saccharomyces Boulardii, load up your mouth with a good friendly yeast that actually competes with firmicutes, like a saccharomyces boulardii, saccharomyces cerevisiae, which is a proper yeast that used to be used in proper bread-making. So, the old bread, because we talk about wheat being high in fluoride, but it also used to be very high in saccharomyces species in the yeasty bread.

Jeff:                       So brewer’s yeast sort of stuff?

Matt:                     Exactly, brewer’s yeast, baker’s used, sort of viable yeasts are all effective at colonizing the mouth. And only avoiding sugars, making sure you got a good balance of minerals, it’s not just calcium, we need calcium and magnesium, but they need vitamin D’s and the collagens and all that sort of stuff to make a matrix. Oral health requires good oxygenation from your blood stream, so making sure that you got good circulation, which is avoiding smoking, and making sure that you got good levels of coenzyme Q10, anemia-

Jeff:                       Smoking’s a devil one, isn’t it, because not only does it deprive oxygen to the teeth but also depletes vitamin C.

Matt:                     And triple, because it also degrades the micro capillaries that are trying to deliver the stuff there. So, it all actually rots and then your gums start receding and then mixing, and then you got blood vessels, nerves, and unprotected bone minerals exposed to acids and microbes and sugars, and it just gets so out of control once your gums lose their integrity. For those people that don’t, that thinking “Oh, I’m going to go full keto, full low-carb,” just keep an eye out for scurvy.[crosstalk 01:00:46] Just saying, like if you’re totally avoiding all your fruit and vegetables, you’re pre-disposed to scurvy and you’re going to get a weakness in the gum and your teeth are going to fall out. But before that happens, you usually get infected hair follicles, you get a little bit of bruising, you get other little signs.

Jeff:                       I was going to say, other signs before that. Right.

Matt:                     Fatigue is the first sign. The first sign of scurvy is fatigue because vitamin C is vital for the production of catecholamines, which is your neurotransmitters that make you feel awake. You know when people say vitamin C is good for stress and stops the exhaustion of stress or adrenal exhaustion, it doesn’t. It actually fuels the nervous response to stress. You got a vitamin C deficiency, it’s your nervous response to stress that flattens out and you get fatigued, it doesn’t do anything at all for cortisol.

Anyway, what the hell was I talking about, I just started talking about something else.

Steve:                   Scurvy.

Matt:                     Oh yeah, so basically, make sure you don’t have a vitamin C deficiency, but importantly bioflavonoids stabilize the microcapillaries which is why ascorbic acid itself, it’ll fix the vitamin C deficiency, but if you have it with foods. Like you’re talking about fruits and vegetables that are loaded up with this sort of stuff, then you get the other bioflavonoids that work with it and improve the integrity of your mucosa much faster.

So, they’re the main things that I’ve come across. Bicarbs is an interesting one, but I think the cool thing about the mouth is that you can very easily go get litmus paper from your local chemist or wherever, find someone to get some litmus paper, but you can measure your salivary PH. And if you finding your mouth is extremely acidic, then you can even just use boring things like bicarbonate soda and a bit of water to rinse your mouth out and change the PH and prevent the rotting of your teeth. So, it’s not a matter of not being vegan, it’s a matter of doing vegan properly, but the same goes for a meat-eater and if you’re eating nothing but meat, you’re going to have a mouthful of acid.

Jeff:                       I haven’t done any oil-pulling for a while, and I actually need to get back in the habit of it.

Matt:                     You do it every morning in the shower, you said?

Jeff:                       But then I’ve got to, as far as toothpaste is concerned, I use Dr. Organics, it’s a brand. There’s other ones out there, I’m sure, and we might even have some listeners that are listing different ones that [crosstalk 01:02:47]

Matt:                     My wife bought one called Grants, but I can’t … the fact that, Grant  Corby, my mouth does not feel clean. Like, I do it and it feels like it’s making it dirtier and dirtier just this Grants paste and it’s just, like-

Steve:                   So you put Grants paste in your mouth-

Matt:                     I said to my wife, I don’t know about you putting this Grants paste in your mouth.

Jeff:                       My wife’s got this other one which is just straight charcoal one, like, you dip your brush in like you said, so there’s heaps of them out there.

Steve:                   Yeah, xylitol based one.

Matt:                     Well, another interesting thing when we’re looking at the fibers, polydextrose is really good for preventing dental caries.

Steve:                   True, I didn’t know that.

Matt:                     So, polydextrose which is a refined form of dextrose that becomes a fiber, it’s so useful. A lot of the sweeteners, I tell you one of the … so with most of the sweeteners, sucraloses and that sort of stuff, all these things are nowhere near as bad as sucrose for the oral health.

Jeff:                       If you take, yeah.

Matt:                     But further down they can create further problems so they found sucralose not as bad as sucrose and that, but they all found they’re relatively bad to a certain degree. And the way they found sucralose was bad, Aspartames and those kind, was actually the disruption of the microbiome in the mouth. So not from the acid, from the sugar, but actually from disruption of the microbiome, they had an effect, but it still wasn’t as bad as the teeth getting cooked by sugar.

But there is still that group, [crosstalk 01:04:06]there is still is a group within the population within the world that their microbiome is not necessarily effected by these sweeteners. So there is still all those people that every time we talk about this, they’re going, “Yeah, but it doesn’t effect me.”

Jeff:                       Very controversial.

Matt:                     Well, it is very controversial-

Jeff:                       Not everybody is the same.

Matt:                     … but you got to realize, that a lot of these people that are very offended when we talk about sweeteners and that sort of stuff is because it doesn’t effect them. Genuinely doesn’t effect them. They got the data on themselves, they got a large percentage of their clients that also it doesn’t effect. And we’ve confirmed it with that paper that shows that in some people, their body does not change when they’re exposed to these things. But it did show that their microbiome changed and it did show that if you take that microbiome out of that person and put it into another person, it changed their body.

Steve:                   [inaudible 01:04:52]

Matt:                     So, the interesting thing is that these studies are relatively short-term. You might even find that these people that say it doesn’t effect me, it might effect their microbiome and then overtime it might effect them, but it may also effect your clients or your friends. So, that’s why Jeff was saying everyone’s different, so just because you use artificial sweeteners or different modified starches and things like that and it doesn’t effect you, it might be effecting your customers.

And I think I only get offended because I’ve spent the whole time telling their customers and they don’t want to use it. That it’s cool, use it.

Jeff:                       We’re constantly re-evaluating information, new studies are coming through, a lot of them are proving hypothesis, a lot of them shedding through the light, if you just want to stick your head in the sand and say, no, I’ve made a point so therefore I can’t retract that because-

Steve:                   Like dental associations.

Jeff:                       And this is a problem, then you become an idiot. But the thing is that Tim Ferriss, the book that I read before on the body which is interesting, and I forget exactly what it said, Steve, you got a better memory than I do, but it actually said that a lot of the people that he was working with to help lose body weight definitely found a hand-break when they incorporated too much artificial sweeteners into their diet. I think he was specifically talk … well I can’t remember which one he was specifically talking about, but I mean, and there’s a whole-

Steve:                   Sucralose, wasn’t it?

Jeff:                       I think he was talking about sucralose, wasn’t he? Yeah.

Steve:                   Yeah.

Matt:                     People that are more predisposed to insulin resistance issues and that definitely seem to have more of a problem.

Jeff:                       But that does not mean that everyone’s going to react the same way.

Matt:                     No, hell no.

Jeff:                       We’ve all go different microbiomes as much as we’ve got different fingerprints. And that has a massive impact on the way we utilize stuff. So anyway, okay.

Matt:                     Yeah, I think it’s cool. So for our teeth, don’t eat too much sugar. Don’t eat too much acid. You know when I say the acid things like these are a big trend of apple cider vinegar’s, people get up in the morning and they’ll have some apple cider vinegar or lemon juice with water and skip breakfast, that’ll rot your teeth. So just, those acid things you’re doing with your meals. But yeah, look at measuring the PH of your mouth if you are predisposed to demineralization and try to maintain that PH.

Steve:                   Your PH should be above six.

Matt:                     And that’s what they found in the vegans, the average vegan mouth was four to six. Which is-

Steve:                   Too acidic.

Matt:                     Yeah, yeah. So yeah, that’s interesting.

Jeff:                       So, they can go buy alkaline water?

Matt:                     No, what would that do in the mouth, I mean, alkaline water-

Steve:                   It’d probably help, it’s in the mouth.

Jeff:                       But just rinsing with it, not sw-

Steve:                   You shouldn’t swallow it.

Jeff:                       People think they’re going to be drinking it. So it’s-

Steve:                   Oh, don’t swallow alkaline water. Goes in your stomach.

Jeff:                       Yeah, which needs to be a pit of acid.

Steve:                   Yeah, it needs to be acid.

Matt:                     Needs to be a pit of acid, yeah.

Steve:                   People don’t drink that stuff, do they?

Matt:                     Yeah, of course they do, yeah, yeah.

Jeff:                       Yeah, they do.

Steve:                   Oh, my god.

Matt:                     What they should be doing is just rinsing-

Steve:                   The mouth with alkaline water.

Matt:                     Alkaline water and then drink the acid water straight in to the stomach.

Steve:                   Because normal water has got a PH of about six and a half because it’s slightly got a dissolved carbon dioxide in it. Level depends on where they are and all that sort of stuff and depends on the temperature of the water too. That’s what the whole greenhouse effect thing’s all about. By the way if you want to-

Matt:                     So, with the alkaline water, they’re not just adding bicarb are they, they’re actually running a process where they’re removing hydrogen out of one, one that I got-

Steve:                   They’re just adding bicarb.

Matt:                     Is it? [crosstalk 01:07:56] I wasn’t sure if it was done through an electrolysis process where we accumulate hydrogens on one end and hydroxide molecules on the other.

Steve:                   Oh, no, water is H2O and about one in seven million molecules of water disassociates to H plus and OH minus, right? So they balance each other out.

Matt:                     So, they can use a process of electrolysis to get the H plus on one side, the OH on the other side and dominate the water all the way?

Steve:                   No, no, no, not really, because you can’t have a negatively charged atom or a positive charged atom on nature on it’s own, they attract to each other. You can’t separate, you can’t just, you can- [crosstalk 01:08:27]

Matt:                     Because they’re-

Jeff:                       Funny we can split the atom.

Matt:                     Like, alkaline water’s made through electrolysis. We should look into that more and not probably talk about it now until we’re experts on it.

Jeff:                       Alright.

Steve:                   Okay.

Jeff:                       Ladies, gentlemen-

Matt:                     Yes?

Jeff:                       Whatever you want to identify with, we’ve got to do some FAQs.

Matt:                     A chard. I choose to identify as a chard.

Jeff:                       Me too, I’m going back to-

Matt:                     Oh man, I’m serious, I got another, I got my mate Aunty Ray, I call him, I said now, he’s the only person that really appreciates my Lego cars. So, when I’m sitting there making Lego, I take photos of him and send them to him and he’ll like genuinely say, “Man, that’s a really cool car, man.” Because I show my wife and she’s like, “You serious.” I mean, why-

Steve:                   Shouldn’t you be doing the lawn?

Matt:                     Because I’m like, “[inaudible 01:09:07] check what I just made?” She’s like, “What?” She looks at me like an idiot. So I have to take photos and send it to my mates because I make really good Lego, Jeff.

Jeff:                       Alright, ready? Guys, we’re going to do some FAQ’s, but again, appreciate the feedback guys, so much, on iTunes, Enigma 142, “Fantastic, entertaining, and informant podcast”, because people don’t always use their real names.

Matt:                     No, they don’t.

Jeff:                       I mean, if that is your real name, I apologize. But-

Matt:                     Don’t you apologize, his mom should apologize, call you that, 142.

Jeff:                       “It’s one that you can go back to and listen and learn something new each time. It has changed the way that I view what I eat as well as medication. Amazing what the body can do with the right tools and knowledge.” So, thanks very much, again, appreciate the review, the positive reviews, it’s fantastic.

Okay, guys, ready, we’re going to give them some quick FAQ’s.

Matt:                     Yeah.

Jeff:                       Okay, this one’s from Susan, “Hi, ATP podcast gang, I have a question.”

Matt:                     Hi Susan.

Jeff:                       “I have a question for the podcast and I hope it’s okay to ask this way. I’ve suffered from an eating disorder-”

Steve:                   Orthorexia.

Jeff:                       What’s Orthorexia, Steve?

Steve:                   It’s like anorexia but you do it in segments, sort of thing, where you eat sort of different sort of foods in different amounts. It’s dis-regulated eating, really.

Jeff:                       Okay, since she was only 12 years of age. “I’m now 30 and have not had a period this entire time. I fixed my eating issues and I’m now far less restrictive. But as a result of my past I have destroyed my gut. I get bloated after eating anything and now have allergies to macadamia nuts, bananas, soy, dairy, and gluten. I’m wanting to try your GutRight to help fix my bloating and IBS, but I’m afraid the restrictive nature of the 10-day program may trigger me into old behaviors. Do you still suggest I follow the protocols? I follow a mostly paleo diet with gluten and dairy-free treats thrown in. Also, any suggestions on regarding my period? I am taking the Noway Protein and the Vegan BCLS.” I think that means vegan aminos. “I appreciate any help or suggestions that you may have, thank you.” So, interesting, kind of talk to me a little bit about that.

Matt:                     Yeah, you don’t, it’s a very simple thing, it’s no. The reason why, I just got to give you the very, very simple concept behind this specific carbohydrate diet that we recommend as part of the GutRight initial challenge. The reason why we tell you to do it, and it’s not ongoing, you don’t have to continue to do this as part of the GutRight anyway. When we are trying to make a fast change to your lower bowel, as we would as part of a 10-day cleanse, what we don’t want to be doing is feeding the bugs. We want the bugs to be starved off so we can poison them. So we got to consider the carbohydrate sources that get to the large intestine is only the really complex starchy molecules.

So the whole concept behind this specific carbohydrate diet to be followed with the initial GutRight 10-day challenge, is to avoid complex carbs, and try to eat more of the simpler sugars. Which is usually the opposite to what we’re told to do, especially if you have bowel problems, people say go for bland foods, so they go and eat rices and breads and dried biscuits and things like that. So, what we’re telling people to do is to eat less of the complex carbs, so less rice, bread, spuds, and that sort of stuff.

Jeff:                       Where would you put beans?

Matt:                     Beans are a bit of each, but they’re a complex, that’s why they make you fart. So, those sort of legumes and those sort of things will have more carbohydrate that will get to your bowel, which means that you’ll have a slower change over in the lower intestine, which also means you get less reactions, you get less all that stuff. So, to answer your question, where possible, go for a meat and vegetable meal over a sandwich. But it doesn’t really matter, just follow the protocol, don’t worry about how fast it takes, and don’t go too crazy and obsess over the food.

The simple process of eating less of the complex carbs is all we’re trying to get at.

Jeff:                       Look, thanks for writing in, Susan, we’re going to throw you out a GutRight and aminos, just to say thank you for the question, hopefully that helps and, yeah, let us know how you get on with your journey.

Matt:                     Excuse me.

Jeff:                       Anything else, Steve?

Matt:                     [inaudible 01:13:15] so Noway protein. Yeah, so that’s cool, so she’s using Noway, so add Noway, so that’s cool. I thought I saw it that she was using way, and allergic to dairy, I was thinking, maybe that’s not good.

Steve:                   She has got amenorrhea which is possibly due to her previous eating disorder, she may be under weight for that, but is it worth putting in something for her periods?

Jeff:                       Like a Mars.

Steve:                   Well, yeah, that’s what I’m thinking. Matt, what do you reckon?

Matt:                     Yeah, let’s have a quick look, Mars would be a good one because what it does is increases title hormonal load, not only does it do that, but it really helps with fatigue, it really helps regenerate gut wall, helps eliminate waste. The fact that-

Jeff:                       How would you take that?

Matt:                     Nothing’s happened at all from 12 to 30, I was initially thinking maybe Venus would be a good idea to help the actual menstrual cycle, but you’re right, though, if there is a deficiency of hormones, a Venus is only working to a certain degree, so Alpha Mars might be a good place to start. The good news is-

Jeff:                       How would you take that?

Matt:                     I would just do two in the morning, two at night. So take Alpha Mars with the other stuff. Because the cool thing is, while you’re going through this, it’s going to give you nice bit of energy and increase that hormonal load and often will bring in the periods as well. We’ve also got to be aware that some people have amenorrhea because they’re not detoxifying their hormones properly. Which can link back into gut health, so, you should still fit in GutRight. Keep going GutRight, use the Alpha Mars, use the aminos and the Noway. Man, how many times I said way?

Jeff:                       I’ll throw in the MultiFoods as well, too.

Matt:                     Everyone needs MultiFood.

Jeff:                       So, yeah, GutRight, aminos, Alpha Mars, MultiFood, Noway, anyway, let us know how you get on, Susan. And again, Matt, you’re right, again, sometimes it’s difficult you rely a lot … when you’re in your clinic, and this is why you don’t treat anymore, I had somebody ask me the other day, “Oh, is there any chance I could speak to Matt?” No, there is no chance you could speak to Matt. Simply because, really good naturopaths-

Matt:                     The magic’s in the follow-up.

Jeff:                       Well, you might nail her off the box, and that’s great, and this is why we say this information, this podcast is for information purposes only. It’s a good starting point and it’s something to consider and it works with someone that you trust they can actually help you. And again, man, as you said, we’re going to send the Alpha Mars, but your thought was, yeah, I’m pretty positive it’s Alpha Mars, but it might be another core selection. If you don’t get the results-

Matt:                     And nothing’s long-term anyway.

Jeff:                       Yeah, exactly.

Matt:                     I said, what we put in now would be temporary. Yeah, you put it in, get that home on load up, but you don’t need to keep putting it up. And then we take it off put you onto something else. That’s where I’m not helpful. Because I can often help people with a starting point, but the magic’s in the follow-up. The magic’s in navigating through their body’s responses to this stuff and that’s where they need someone available to talk to, that’s why they need to be working with a local coach, someone they can actually say, “Hey, I noticed this when this happens,” and that person’s actually in the zone or at least answers their phone. And that’s where I end up making people quite angry because I just disappear.

Jeff:                       You couldn’t do it. The amount of work, you don’t have enough time to be [crosstalk 01:16:04]

Matt:                     I couldn’t do it when I was actually a naturopath. I was really sucked at customer service in the sense that I was really busy and man, I’m just not a good business person, but anyway.

Steve:                   It’s a good thing you don’t own a business.

Jeff:                       This one’s from Ashley. “Hi there, love love love the podcast and products. Coming from a nursing background, I found this podcast, it helped me understand many conditions my patients have too, so thank you. I’m writing today because I need some help getting my period back after coming off the pill. I’m 26 years old and my only real medical history is low iron, bordering on anemic, and a case of glandular fever when I was 19. I eat a Pescatarian diet, I eat fish mostly plant-based, exercise regularly, doing two to three times per week, and I’m incorporated HIT into this. Walking, yoga, Pilates, sole workouts. I’m 169 centimeters tall and I weigh 69 kilos and body fat percentage is around 26%.

Last year, the pill started turning me into a psychotic monster one day a week when I got my period and I had enough of feeling like a crazy lady not in control so I decided to go off the pill around September 2018. I initially went on the pill for contraception and to help with heavy periods. Since coming off the pill, I had one period around 45 days after I came off. I have been taking Alpha Venus, MultiFood, T432, for about a month before coming off the pill and it being continuously taking Alpha Venus. The period was a surprisingly a lesser amount for me and shorter duration than the pre-pill days. Woo hoo! I haven’t, however, had another period for 100 days since. I’ve done a pregnancy test and I’m not pregnant. I definitely think I have high estrogen as I have a lot of the associated symptoms, heavy periods, not painful though, headaches intermittently, pimples have gone crazy on my face, predominantly my chin and jaw and forehead and more weight around the back of my thighs, under my bum, and lower abdomen.

I did also dwell on things a lot. I was more moody and had poor short-term memory, but they’ve all improved heaps since consistently taking Alpha Venus. I’ve also struggled to lose the weight despite good nutrition and exercise, but I’ve lost some weight especially around my upper abdomen since coming off the pill and taking the Alpha Venus. I have tried the T432 and ZMST for other symptoms such as brittle nails, weak hair, constipation, sluggish stools, I generally go every one to two days if I’m eating enough nuts and seeds which has helped somewhat. I did a bottle of GutRight too to help my bowel motion frequency but seemed to block me up more so. It did, however, work to clear my recurrent vaginal thrush. I was also taking ZMST and I believe I had low magnesium.

I had a twitching eyelid, really tight back muscles, irritable poor sleep, which have all been resolved after two bottles of the ZMST. I re-listened to the periods podcast and have done some research on the internet, and have implemented a regime of Alpha Venus, MultiFood, Cort RX, B12 and Magnesium. So, I’m thinking that because my bowels are a bit slower, I’m not eliminating the excess estrogen so that’s why I haven’t had a period and I’m looking like an acne-faced teenager. So, I’m trying the Cort RX to help me with the internal stress and to improve bowel motions. Remove excess estrogen and let my hormones drop so I can have a period.

I also take iron tablets and I have always had low iron bordering on anemic since I was a teenager regardless of whether I eat red meat or not. I can tell myself when my stores are low because I have so much more fatigue and recently was getting dizzy upon standing. Doctors had thought it was due to my heavy periods, but I’m unsure and haven’t had a period for so long that the source to be causing it. I’ve also had an internal vaginal US, what’s that? Ultrasound?

Steve:                   Yeah, yeah.

Jeff:                       To rule out fibroids, et cetera, and that was all clear. So, my question is there anything else that I should add to get rid of this excess estrogen to get my period, and is there something that are missing regularly why I have chronically low iron stores. Thank you so much for making the products, they truly help and for providing free trustworthy information through your podcast.”

Matt:                     Cool. First thing you do, go back to the doctor and get your thyroid checked properly. Okay, we’re going to get T4, T3, Reverse T3, and also your thyroid auto-antibodies. The signs and symptoms of sluggish thyroid include estrogen dominance contributing to amenorrhea, fluid retention, bloating, slow transit time, sluggish bowel, constipation, predisposition to candida, vaginal thrush, insulin resistance that contributes to acnes, and amenorrhea again. The heavier periods when you do get your periods … this is-

Steve:                   Everything.

Matt:                     … a textbook of a sluggish thyroid. The problem with a slow thyroid is two things that happen that create a vicious cycle is the estrogen is preserved, which means the candida overgrowth in the bowel recycles the estrogen so it just keeps coming back, and the thyroid keeps those levels high.

You can absorb iron if you’re low thyroid. You get anemia and low iron levels because you do get no stomach acid and then you get the bloating. So, much of this seems like it’s a vicious cycle between a combination of insulin resistance, estrogen dominants in certain compartments in sluggish thyroid. So, the slow thyroid eliminating the ability to eliminate the estrogen, the estrogen recycle is made worse by the candida. It’s going round and round in circles.

So, the brain is picking up on these elevated estrogen. Estrogen increase is a production of reverse teeth rate, slows down the thyroid further. The pituitary gland see if we got estrogen everywhere, I need to stop the estrogen production, the only way I can do that is block the conversion of testosterone to estrogen, and I can do that in my ovaries which will stop me from getting the period, and I can do that in the skin which will acne.

So, I’m seeing a major pattern here with insulin resistance associated with sluggish thyroid and as a consequence to that, we’re seeing and imbalance between estrogen and testosterone right shares. That’s the way I would treat it, is going in with actually with T432 plus relatively aggressively to the point of two capsules three times a day with each meal [crosstalk 01:22:33] because I need to work on this insulin sensitivity. At the same time, we need that thyroid a bit of a boot because we won’t be able to get rid of the estrogen.

Now, the other challenging thing is the same nutrients required for the absorption of iron, are going to be needing to absorb the B12 and [inaudible 01:22:49] that the body is going to be using to conjugate and methylite the estrogen. So, the candidas and the estrobal, both can feed on and recycle it. So, style on B12 that was really clever, style on MultiFood, get yourself a methylcobalamin and take a grain of that everyday.

Steve:                   Oh, milligram.

Matt:                     Milligram, well done Steve.

Jeff:                       What did you say?

Matt:                     A thousand milligrams instead of a thousand micrograms. Don’t do what I do, just do what Steve has said. So, methylcobalamin, one milligram, a thousand micrograms per day, of that and add it in with your MultiFoods. So, We’re going to get you [fololytes 01:23:27] and the B12 and the other co-factors for that. You can maintain the GutRight, if you wanted to, to keep it away in a low dose daily, but importantly, I need that T432 up. And don’t forget a lot of that microbiome modulating effects from the gut ride is also in the T432 in the sense that there’s the cinnamon and pommegrane and that sort of stuff.

So to find resources, I could use MultiFood T432. But T432 capsules three times a day. Get your blood thyroid done properly, also measuring your base, your body temperature and see if you’re just cold. You should notice your bowel speed up, you should get warm or your metabolism will crank up, you get less bloating, you get more energy with the T432 and you can use that as a bit of a guide. But of you’re measuring your base, your body temperature, and doing blood tests with your doctor we can also see things.

Jeff:                       Seems [inaudible 01:24:15] obviously wile she is going through each kind of person who understands the body quite well which is great. Being a nurse obviously very smart, so she’s done little things that you said Matt including using the T432, but is the dosage and that is what I was going to say.[crosstalk 01:24:29] I was thinking obvioulsy how many will you take, you don’t actually say how many you’re actually taking.

Matt:                     I take two three times a day initially, you have the potential to do three, three times a day. I did that with some of my affiliates until we can get their body temperature up to the point where there are in that faster metabolism and then we rewind it back down. The cool thing is that … What I recommend, I think it’s on that webpage too we got a full symptoms kit of a sluggish thyroid, so go through that and go to webpage

Steve:                   We’ve written enough [inaudible 01:25:01].

Matt:                     In writing, yeah. Type in thyroid or something in the search button you’ll come across some symptom pictures for hyperthyroid, you’ll come across the template you can use for base or body temperature testing and that sort of stuff. Go get your thyroid checked by your doctor there so they can do a good blood testing and [inaudible 01:25:18] so they do a reverse teeth, don’t let you it doesn’t exist. Offer to pay. I think it’s about $120 if it not Medicare revitable. Tell the doctor I want to pay but please just do the full test just to prove [crosstalk 01:25:31]

Jeff:                       We’ve heard people before we met say that to them, yeah get your reverse teeth tested, they’ve gone to the doctor and they said there’s no such test. We don’t know what you’re talking about.

Matt:                     There is, there is. 100%. There’s is Sullivan Nicolaides in Australia, QML, Sullivan Nicolaides they all have the test for it. In fact, because that happened to me all the time, I actually contacted QML as a naturopath directly, and asked them to mail out to me QML pathology request forms with tick boxes on it and actually put the testing that I was told doesn’t exist on this form so I could tick it. And it came from the pathology company. When they took that pathology form too, the doctor, said, “Oh, my gosh, it does exist.” So then I authorized it. Then when I took it to the pathology [Latty 01:26:15], Latty is the phlebotomist they were saying that, that doesn’t exist, that’s why we do that test [inaudible 01:26:20]. For them to say it’s on your actual form and then me having to mailing and contact the office to say, “You’re head office can you please contact your collection agent and remind them that this sample needs to be taken because that test does exist.”

Jeff:                       Sad, isn’t it?

Matt:                     But it’s that quite.

Steve:                   Because it’s that rare.

Jeff:                       It’s only a website too.

Matt:                     Yeah, I know.

Jeff:                       Because no doctors ever ask for it.

Matt:                     Not because they don’t wan the to look for it because if you overdose on thyroid medication you jerk up reverse teeth three years of compesatory mechanism to slow your thyroid.

Jeff:                       Oh, [crosstalk 01:26:50]

Matt:                     No, it’s not a conspiracy, it’s just covering the butt. You got to realize that there’s a lot of policies associated with institutionalized groups and it’s there to protect the group. For example, The Dental Association will reaffirm their previous findings because if the don’t then those dentists are going to get bloody sued everywhere.

Steve:                   Yeah, just to ignore the scientific studies showing it causes Alzheimer’s, and fatal problems, and Parkinson’s but well now, it’s still good you can say.

Jeff:                       Well guys we’ve run out of time. So, anyway thanks for that [crosstalk 01:27:20] hey get on with that, we are going to be seeing you at a whole new prophylaxis well too. Thank you guys.

Matt:                     Thank you.

Steve:                   Thank you.

Jeff:                       No, thank you.

Steve:                   Thank you.

Matt:                     Thank you.

Jeff:                       We’ll be back next week.

Matt:                     Yes, thank you.

Speaker 3:           Thanks for listening and remember question everything well, except what we say.




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