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Episode 193 – Detoxification – The Ins and Outs

In this episode of the ATP Project – Detoxification – The ins and outs. Matt, Jeff, and Steve discuss detoxification. The guys talk about the detoxification processes and pathways, how to activate them properly and ways you can improve these with various foods and dietary changes without going on extreme detox programs and creating more stress and or damage to your body.


Steve:                   Well, detoxification is a word you hear way throughout the internet and everybody’s talking about it at the gym. Detoxification, there’s juice detoxes, water detoxes. Today, we are going to be talking about a whole lot of detoxification processes and basically we’re going to talk about ways that we can improve our detoxification pathways without going on some extreme detoxification program. Please enjoy.

Jeff:                       As always, this information is not designed to diagnose, treat, prevent, or cure any condition and is for information purposes only. Please discuss any information in this podcast with your healthcare professional before making any changes to your current lifestyle. Stay tuned, the ATP Project is about to start.

Speaker 2:           Welcome to the ATP Project, delivering the irreverent truth about health, aging, performance and looking good. If you’re sick and tired of being sick and tired, ready to perform at your best, or somewhere in between, then sit back, relax, and open your mind as Jeff and Matt battle the status quo and discuss everything health-related that can make you better.

Jeff:                       Welcome to the ATP Project, here with your hosts, Matt, Jeff, and Steve. Good day, guys. I’m good, but we’re going to do a podcast today, a timely one at the beginning of the year for a lot of people that have been a bit festive over the festive season about detox, and it’s cool, Matt, because we were talking. There’s a lot of people grumbling. There’s a lot of people saying, “I’m going to start detox, a lot of people saying it’s crap. There’s no need to do it.”

We’re going to get into that, but before we do I actually wanted to mention some feedback, some testimonials that we’ve had recently just to get them out of the way, which have been really mind-blowing. I’ll start with mine and then [crosstalk 00:01:47]. This one Tony was actually reading to me today and it’s actually a bit of a tear-jerker actually. Brooker was getting a bit teary over it, and it’s cool to see when we put products out there that people are using that are definitely helping them.

Now, it’s anecdotal, this isn’t a peer-reviewed study, but take from it what you want. Dementia feedback, ATP products have been amazing for me and changing me for the better and now I have feedback for my father. We started him on multi-food and orum oil as you had recommended. I thought that it would be a battle with the oil, but a teaspoon has solved that. Anyway, here’s what we have found so far. Quarter X was having an impact on him and he was sleeping in excess.

With some back and forth when it being able to work out that if we gave him two after the evening meal before his bed was perfect timing. He isn’t getting up multiple times throughout the night. His bedtime is normally at 8:45 of an evening and then he sleeps until 8:00 in the morning. He’s not slept like that for years, he’s waking up refreshed and his skin color is no longer gray. I had time with him before Christmas and I took a photo on my phone and showed him, and his response was, “Oh look, girl and a boy,” so he didn’t even recognize himself.

He didn’t recognize me. My mother commenced with the orum oil on the evening that it arrived, and we also added one multi-food. That was obviously before he’d started the orum oil and the multi-food. This was only to allow him to understand that it was another nutritional tablet versus a medication because he gets a bit squirrel-y around medication. The next morning after sleeping well, he gets up and makes his bed, gets dressed, and toddles out to the kitchen and starts making breakfast.

This has not happened in years. Okay, well, maybe this is a fluke, so let’s see. We take another multi-food in the morning and then an oil for the second and then an oil and another multi-food in the evening. The next day the same thing, except he starts talking to my mother and called her by name. Then he potters into the garden most of the day like he used to do years before. Then day three, the same as above; he had an episode in the evening where he was aggressive, which has been normal, but this time he had a rationalized conversation that he was moving out.

This is obviously the disease, but either way he spoke. On this day, he spoke to me on the phone and he chatted to me like he had always done. Again, this hasn’t happened for over two years. When he sees me he looks at me, but there was nothing but blankness. I was over the moon for his improvement. Now it continues that he is recognizing basic items around the house and undertaking tasks that, from a motor skill side of things, he could not achieve without assistance.

He’s no longer just sitting in a chair. The phone rings and my mother says after she hangs up, he asks, “Who was that?” and along the lines of “Is that the copper?” I don’t what that means, not in a long time have we seen or have we heard this. I hope you don’t mind the long-winded e-mail. I just wanted you and ATP team to know how it has impacted on dementia from Kim.

Steve:                   We get those nice things.

Jeff:                       It’s beautiful. I just wanted to share that the thing is that the oily structures of the brain are so important, Matt. We just say, “Give it a try” for people who have got issues in the brain, whether it be ADHD or dementia or-

Steve:                   To make sure you’re capable of healing. A lot of these people do these high-end bio-hacking and really high-end medications and treatments, but the basics of making sure you have the essential nutrients to make sure your body’s capable of functioning the way it was meant to, you’ve got to start there. Otherwise, the other stuff can’t possibly work.

Jeff:                       I just want to say as well, too, Steve, we’re not making any suggestions of healing claims and all the rest of that, but from a nutritional food point of view, it’s the oily structures of the brain that sometimes don’t get the nutrients they need. Again, we’re just coming back to what used to be in our diet or what should be in our diet that’s missing, and so when you put these nutrients back in, then the body has the necessary nutrients to be able to actually stop performing as it should.

Steve:                   Absolutely. They this could be dementia or it could be something totally different there. There are a lot of neurological diseases that are deficiencies of vitamins. Korsakoff’s the classic one where you drink a lot of alcohol, B-1 is diminished, and you get demented. You replace it with B-1 and their brain’s fixed. There’s lots of these diseases that just say, “Ah, he or she is old, therefore they’ve got quote ‘dementia’ or ‘Alzheimer’s,’ a basket diagnosis.”

They may have a nutritional insufficiency and their brain works.

Jeff:                       Is that one that you talked about, the locked-in syndrome, one time-

Steve:                   That was not the one.

Jeff:                       It was just the basic nutrients that they were missing out of their diet. What was that one?

Steve:                   That was a lack of dopamine in the brain and they made a movie about it. Severe Parkinson’s.

Jeff:                       Lorenzo’s Oil. No.

Steve:                   It’s called Awakenings and it had Robert De Niro and the funny guy … Robin Williams. That’s right. They were locked in like this, there were statues and he gave them and a simple levodopa, which is an amino acid base, the precursor to dopamine and they all came good.

Jeff:                       Yep.

Steve:                   Levodopa is still used to this day.

Jeff:                       This is what we come back and saying all the time, Matt, and again why we created the four pillars, or the orum is obviously one of those because these are the basic nutrients that we need, that we find so often and avoid-

Matt:                     Even their other products, you have a look at our formulated herbal products that are trying to drive a testosterone booster and estrogen detoxification. Again, if you have basic deficiencies of essential nutrients, they can’t even possibly work. Basically, when we’re looking at, and I always say basic nutrition, but it’s very complicated. It’s just a matter of making sure you’ve got the things our body needs.

It’s just like building a car: you can push on a throttle but if you don’t have any wheels or any petrol, you’re not going anywhere. It’s all this synergy together, and, first of all, make sure you’ve got the infrastructure that makes it capable of working.

Jeff:                       Can I read through one?

Steve:                   Yeah. Again, just lastly, we always say that this information is information so talk to your healthcare practitioner.

Jeff:                       We don’t share this much because we’re always worried about it, thinking, “Oh, they’re just anecdotal reports,” people are going to be going, “Oh, we don’t want to look like we’re flogging off all these things.”

Steve:                   We want to help people.

Jeff:                       We don’t want people to think they’re paid … We actually don’t share a lot of these testimonials but things like this could really help people.

Matt:                     Well, dementia is close to my heart because my grandfather had it.

Jeff:                       My grandmother had it.

Matt:                     I wish I had had these tools, just to give them a crack. You know what I mean? As I said, there’s no guarantee but what’s the worst that can happen?

Jeff:                       Exactly. Well, that’s another good point. Just making sure there’s no interactions, especially with the elderly, with their list of medications. Otherwise, just make sure first do no harm, cover the basics, you’d be amazed what can happen when you just make sure the body’s got the nutrients it needs to do the job you’re asking it to do.

Matt:                     Exactly.

Jeff:                       Yeah, before you try to force it to happen with a high-end drug and go to higher and higher doses. Here’s a cool case study. This was one that comes through. This one’s a nice one, personal one. Let me quickly read it. Finally psoriasis-free. Thanks to ATP Science Gut Right, I felt the need to share this in hopes I could help others suffering from this skin condition. [crosstalk 00:09:07] I did not want to post a before shot, as I was so self-conscious.

I never got a photo of that, that I kept. For about eight years now, I had a form of psoriasis that was red spots all over my torso. I tried everything, all the stuff from the doctors and naturopaths, all the creams, natural steroids, nothing worked. A few months ago, I got really sick and decided I need to really sort my immune system out and I started taking Gut Right. You’re supposed to do this with a special diet, but to be honest, I couldn’t be bothered and I ate as normal because I do eat pretty healthy anyway.

I just started taking it once a day and within a month my psoriasis was actually gone, cannot believe it. I’m just replacing the f-words. It tastes like drinking dirt, but that just reminds me it’s the real deal and natural. I will take this stuff forever, now, LOL, I literally hadn’t been in my bikini down at the beach for eight years and now you can’t keep me away from the beach. Thank you ATP Science and some nice stuff there. Now …

Matt:                     Well, it actually says you’re a genius-

Jeff:                       I want to put this into context, but Matt, I know you said to me he was a failure.

Matt:                     No, I was one of the naturopaths, so I was one of these failure naturos. What she’s gone through and said she went to all the doctors, she went to the naturo. I was her naturopath. Now, what we did is we tried everything. We did all the topical, the thieves oil, we did everything we made all this stuff. We worked with dermatologists, we tried all the products, things labeled cold psoriasis, things that come with all this education, I went and did all these different courses with different companies to learn how to fix this stuff.

This was bugging the hell … This was a rare form of psoriasis called gut ache psoriasis. [crosstalk 00:10:43]

Steve:                   It’s a viral activation, so what happens, we get this virus, we get this immune dysregulation. You get some bugs that are living in you that don’t go and they typically live in the gut and they find this home and the immune system is constantly firing up against that and then goes to touch the skin. I was one of those naturopaths, and I was talking to Katie when she posted this and I actually made a comment on her Instagram post and said, “Hey, don’t forget. I was one of those failure naturopaths,” and then she reminded me, she said, “Yes, exactly and I remember our conversations about how frustrated I was that none of this stuff works. It should bloody work. The theory says it should work and it didn’t,” and that’s why we made ATP.

What’s really cool about this is I get so many testimonials that I never bothered sharing from all my old naturopath clients that are now telling me and … I didn’t know how to take it at first. Because I was always feeling … Because they always, “Oh man, we wish you were still consulting,” and that sort of stuff, but they don’t say that now. Because they actually say they’re getting better results listening to the podcast, following our information and using the ATP products.

Because now we’ve made the products that weren’t available when I was in the naturopath clinic and we make them with the quality that we need so that the data actually matches up with a product so we can actually work. The funny thing is my clients now don’t need to pay me to come and see me for a consultation fee. They don’t need to do all that. They can actually listen to a podcast, do all their own research, and use all of our products and they’re getting better results.

I’ve got people with endometriosis that we could never fix that’s now fixed using the ATP protocols. We’ve got so many other things, but what’s even better about it, these are typically people that were coming to see me for themselves that have now worked out how to fix themselves. Now they’re fixing the rest of their families and their husbands using our information and using the product.

It’s really cool because I was thinking, “Oh man, I really sucked at this.”

Matt:                     What I love about these stories, it teaches us something and teaches everyone something and that is they’re just treating the gut here, yet it heals a skin condition and it just shows you that … You and I know it’s the gut, it makes sense, but most people out there think they’ve got a skin condition and would go to a dermatologist for that. Just to treat the skin and say, “Oh, let’s put whatever we can on there.”

What it’s causing is a virus in the gut, if it’s gut ache psoriasis, which you think it is and that is there’s lots of viruses living in your gut that cause all sorts of skin conditions. There’s hand, foot, and mouth. There’s all sorts of-

Jeff:                       Remember, we got those other testimonials of people within 48 hours from acne rosacea cases-

Steve:                   The gentleman in England and they’re still one of my favorite testimonials because he actually documented with photos [crosstalk 00:13:10]. Again, it’s really cool when … I know, Matt, you’re talking with some of the guys at various universities both here in Australia and also in a university in the US, if you’re going to mention which university-

Matt:                     No.

Steve:                   No? We’ve got some really cool stuff that we’re doing with these guys, which has … It’s difficult because you’re dealing a lot of the time with bureaucracy. We’ve also got some of the studies that are coming through from some of the proteins that we’re working with as well. I had a print … What we should probably do, a whole podcast on that.

Matt:                     Confidential information.

Steve:                   The nice thing is as well, too, I feel like a carrot on a stick sometimes because we’ve signed NDAs, not so that we can’t release the information; mind you … I’m talking about the no-whey protein, but having said that, we’ve got another product coming out relatively soon where all of the information is published, which we can share, and we are going to get that bloody information out. Anyway, all I was going to say is that …

Matt:                     Just get everyone to sign an NDA. Just get anyone that wants to read it, “You sign an NDA, like I was saying, and then you can read it.”

Jeff:                       Let’s get back to some [crosstalk 00:14:22]. Okay, Matt, so obviously going back to this time of year in Australia, which, after Christmas, summertime, people are blowing out too much alcohol, too much festive living.

Steve:                   You’re looking at me when you’re saying that?

Jeff:                       No, Steve. You’re the last person, actually, that probably needs to do this, but I remember myself personally and we’ve spoken about this before. Liver detox was a really big one and then people would say, “You’ve got to get your liver right, so you’ve got to go on Methionine and inositol and choline and flush out your liver, maybe some milk thistle extract,” and what have you because all the toxins have built up.

Now people are saying, “Oh, that’s rubbish. Your body should be able to heal itself, you don’t need to do anything. You just need to fast,” or whatever it may be.

Steve:                   Can I read from a dietitian’s opinion on detox?

Jeff:                       Sure.

Steve:                   This is from the spokesperson for the Academy of Nutrition. Basically says that the human body can eliminate any toxins it comes in contact with just fine.

Jeff:                       Wow.

Steve:                   Yes.

Jeff:                       What about cadmium?

Steve:                   Well [crosstalk 00:15:24]. Detox diets are elusive and popular but they aren’t proven to do what they say they do, i.e. flush toxins out of your system. Organs and the immune system can handle detoxification on their own no matter what you eat. The best steak sauce in overall healthy eating program along with plenty of fluid that promotes regular trips to the bathroom.

Jeff:                       What about arsenic?

Matt:                     No problem. Doesn’t matter what you take. [crosstalk 00:15:55] The other extreme, you get someone that says we just stop eating everything, we fast, we drink clean water and do juices and you’re going to strip all the toxins out of your body and have no problems.

Jeff:                       I appreciate this, there’s quackery on both sides.

Matt:                     Talk about the truth.

Jeff:                       Truth.

Matt:                     Because what bugs me about this is it’s very easy to find for someone to jump on a particular thing and then attack it without actually looking at the big picture.

Jeff:                       Well, you could take both the Fruit Loops, the ones that say you live on Universe Juice and then the ones here that are saying-

Matt:                     You can detox anything. [crosstalk 00:16:29]

Jeff:                       Don’t forget when we deal with industry and raw materials. We have these material safety data sheets that talk about the toxic nature of these things and how much we have things like LD50s, lethal dose. What dose of this food is going to kill 50% of the rats in this study? We know that you can’t handle these toxins, but let’s have a quick … What we need to do is give a broad picture first, get people to have a proper understanding of what detoxification and elimination is and why words like “liver detox” are wrong and why statements saying that we can handle anything and it makes no difference to our body is equally wrong.

Matt:                     At least the liver detox has got some element of truth to it.

Steve:                   Yeah. Quick question, Matt.

Matt:                     Yeah.

Steve:                   Just yes or no. Is it worthwhile, is it beneficial to do some form of detoxification after a period of indulgence?

Matt:                     The problem you’ve got here is you’re using the wrong words.

Steve:                   Right.

Matt:                     We are constantly detoxifying, we constantly detoxify, so when you say, “Let’s do a form of detoxification,” yeah, go to the bathroom if you need to go. Okay?Wwhat we need to do is support our detoxification pathways because what we must understand is these things run with nutrients. For example, we need to be able to maintain a certain amount of nutrients to be able to maintain our detoxification pathways.

We need to support that the same way you’re talking about with dementia. For your brain to work, there’s certain nutrients that it needs for that brain to work, for the skin to work there’s certain things we need to do to be able to allow things to actually work, and amazingly with our detoxification system, most of these detoxification pathways are regulated by nutrients. We’re talking the B vitamins, amino acids, all these other nutrients.

What happens is when you have increased exposure, when you have excessive exposure, what happens is we deplete our nutrients, but also we change the way our body deals with these toxins. Please remember that our human system is designed to deal with the toxins associated with poisons and venoms and those sort of things. They’re coming from bites and poisonous fruits and flowers or whatever we may have consumed and or that stuff, or infections and that stuff.

That’s what our detoxification processes are designed for. Our detoxification processes are also involved in our survival mechanisms because, just in case it’s not a poison or a venom, it might be a virus or a parasite, your body has these defense mechanisms it needs to up-regulate. What happens is pathways change and I’m going to talk a little bit more about it, but they can stay changed because what happens is, if you survive, if you induce a detoxification pathway to survive from a particular poison or a venom, you know how you see in Princess Bride [crosstalk 00:19:15].

Steve:                   Which comes from Australia.

Matt:                     We went through and poisoned himself, so he took lots of dose of poison to become resistant to that poison. What that means is they up-regulate detoxification pathways. What happens is what if you get an exposure to a toxin, it up-regulates a cytochrome P-450, it up-regulates a detoxification pathway. You learn a new survival technique that stays high. What that does is that changes the way your body processes that poison, but what if that poison is now gone, but that same process is used to regulate your estrogen?

It’s used to regulate your testosterone.

Steve:                   Something that slips down that pathway.

Matt:                     Exactly, and it changes the way our body deals with other toxins in response to a toxic stress, and then what happens is our body must use all of these nutrients to deactivate that stuff so that way it can sit in the bowel, so you can poo it out without it being reabsorbed, or it can go to the kidneys and not form a stone and actually be eliminated or it can go off through the elimination or it can go past the lymphatic system, not just loiter around in the lymphatic system and actually leave the body.

We need lots of nutrients to support the deactivation and the elimination, we need to make sure that we’re controlling our water, drinking lots of water and make sure we’ve got lots of fiber so you can poo it all out and bind it. Diaphoretic herbs, such things as ginger, things that make you sweat, exercise. Diaphoresis is another way of eliminating toxins through your skin, so saunas and exercise.

These things are all ways of supporting the elimination, so when we talk about detoxification, we want to talk about reducing your toxic exposure for a period of time so that way we can reboot your survival pathways in regards to how you deal with those toxins, and during that time we want to go through and clean up the mess, all of this stuff that needs to be eliminated that is back logging, we can go through and clean that up.

If I say, “Should I do a detoxification?” it’s like, “Yes, and you are constantly.”

Steve:                   Yeah.

Matt:                     Should I support my detoxification processes and reboot my detoxification pathways after this recent abuse? Yes, you’ll feel a hell of a lot better if we do that, and so we’re going to teach you how to do it and show you where that stuff fits in.

Jeff:                       Can I create a footnote and maybe we can come back to this after you go through the daily, if you like, the routine detoxification that we do through good food, good nutrition, good support, but what about things like drinking the oil and lying on your side where you flush at kidney stones and these are more extreme ones. What you’d call an event.

Matt:                     Yes.

Jeff:                       I was guilty of this because this is what I was taught, right?

Matt:                     I do want to talk about bile. When we’re talking about bile flow, we’ll definitely mention the gallbladder flush.

Jeff:                       The flushes and then doing a … I know one guy that I went and saw, this is years before I met you, Matt, recommended to take huge amounts of an oxide. I think it might have been zinc oxide, which … This is going to cause a plug and then you’re going to flush your bowels out. Basically you’re just trying to get diarrhea. [crosstalk 00:22:19]

Matt:                     Zinc oxide will help you vomit it out.

Jeff:                       Yeah, actually that’s right. I remember taking zinc and going, “Well. Yeah, this is making me feel really sick,” and then looking at the number one when I was younger and selling products, and again, just reading the literature from the companies was using methionine, inositol, and choline with [crosstalk 00:22:44]. Right, if you’ve been drinking lots of alcohol, time to flush out the liver and and do this and drink lots of water and you might get some headaches and all the rest of it and some fluid-y bowel motion and I was taught that. [crosstalk 00:22:56]

Steve:                   We used to teach fasting and we’d make people very sick because there was no nutrients in water to support detoxification. Their toxins would build up, we’re going to talk about the phase one intermediates here later, but toxins build up, you get really sick, we would call it a healing crisis. We were making people sick. They were going good.

Jeff:                       The lemon juice one with the oil. I think I was, and you had to lie on your left or right side. I think left side.

Steve:                   Yeah, left side. [crosstalk 00:23:25]

Jeff:                       It would be interesting because a lot of people, obviously, would be interested to know is this a good thing or a bad thing. [crosstalk 00:23:33]

Matt:                     Let’s run through detoxification. The first thing I want to clear up, we talk about phase one detoxification, we talk about cytochrome P-450s, you said earlier people assume the liver is our first place of defense. It’s not. Every mucous membrane in our body and every cell of our body has a phase one detoxification pathway, so it can convert fat-soluble toxins or reduce them, hydroxylate it, oxidize it, basically degrade these hormones or compounds or poisons and convert it into something else.

Okay, so it happens all over our body and the thing with that cytochrome P-450 systems, the way to speed those up, the way to make those work faster, for you to go and find stuff and convert it into something else, is with toxic exposure. The only way to speed up your phase one detoxification is through toxic exposure, so what happens when we have exposure to toxins, cytochrome P-450s go faster because they’re the ones designed to help you deal with poisons and venoms and that sort of stuff and it makes toxins water-soluble.

Froth at the mouth, vomit and diarrhea, as you said, loose stools. You said the vomiting, the headaches, all those sort of things are signs of cytochrome P-450s going fast. Now, for perspective, a lot of people talk about cytochrome P-450s in regard to the liver with drug interactions and nothing else. We’ve got to understand that the process of cytochrome P-450 process is aromatization, for example, converting testosterone to estrogen is a phase one detoxification pathway.

What happens is if you overindulge in alcohols, you get excessive exposure, and I’ll give you a good example of something like cadmium, you mentioned it earlier. If we get an overdose of cadmium, which is not a natural poison, venom, that we would normally overdose on. Yeah, typically comes with petrochemicals, fossil fuels, and that sort of stuff, or pollution. It’s a heavy metal that goes in.

What our body normally uses to deactivate that heavy metal as it comes in is zinc and selenium and when it comes in, zinc and selenium binds to it and then it’s deactivated. Now, imagine if that keeps happening. It depletes your zinc and selenium. Cadmium then is directly linked with those 5-alpha reductase enzymes, which is cytochrome P-450, so 5-alpha reductase that converts testosterone to dihydrotestosterone is also a phase one detoxifier.

Now what happens is if you have deplete your chelating nutrients through overexposure, this cadmium then drives up the aromatase, it drives up the 5-alpha reductase, it creates massive hormonal problems. That can be corrected with chelation therapy using zinc, selenium, lipoic acid to bind the cadmium and clear it away. You then need to slow down the cytochrome P-450s to fix your hormonal problem.

Let me give you another example. When you get exposed to pesticides, fertilizers, or other endocrine-disrupting chemicals, they can up-regulate because they’re a poison. They can increase a particular cytochrome P-450 pathway in your liver that allows you to convert that toxin into a water-soluble thing so you can eliminate it out through your bowels. That exact same pathway converts our good estrogen into a bad estrogen, which is why we find such estrogenic effects that are coming from these endocrine-disrupting chemicals.

It’s not that necessarily that they have an estrogenic effect; in some instances, they change your liver to deal with that poison and then that liver, when it goes to deal with your natural hormones, it’s all out of whack. What happens? Yeah, we can avoid that poison. Yeah, we can try to dodge it, but your pathways have been changed and you survived because of it, which means your body then keeps it that way as a survival technique.

What happens, the more stress we have, the more immune activity, the more toxic exposure we have, the faster the cytochrome P-450 systems go, what that means is your body’s really good at converting fat-soluble toxins into water-soluble, but then phase two has to clean up the mess, phase two is limited. What speeds up phase two is the availability of nutrients.

Jeff:                       Right.

Matt:                     If your phase one’s been running fast because of toxic exposure, stress, inflammation, immune activity, it’ll stay fast. What that means is your body increases all of these water-soluble toxins it’s making, the phase two systems deactivate it so that way you can put it into bile and eliminate it with your gallbladder flushes that we’ll talk about in a sec, or send it to the kidneys to be eliminated or it’ll end up in your lymphatic system.

Basically, what happens is phase one runs really fast, the more toxins we have the faster it goes, so you don’t need to speed that up. You never need to speed that up. It speeds up by itself and that’s what the dietitians are talking about. We have this ability to handle everything, but they’re only talking about one phase.

Steve:                   Yeah, because phase one is just hydroxylation.

Matt:                     Exactly.

Steve:                   Except for two of the CY [crosstalk 00:28:30].

Matt:                     A lot of drugs, for example, you don’t feel them unless they go through phase one and be converted into a more toxic form.

Steve:                   Morphine. Codeine is converted into morphine.

Matt:                     Just before I forget. This is a really good one for the people at this time of the year. If you’ve been abusing alcohol, what happens is a cytochrome P-450 or 304, I think, it speeds up and goes extra fast. That converts alcohol into the form that gives you a hangover, so what happens if your phase one’s going faster and faster, phase two, you’re not supporting it with nutrients. It’ll get slower and slower.

What ends up happening, you start feeling like you’re hungover before you get drunk because the alcohol is … You know when you get the feeling-

Jeff:                       I don’t get hangovers.

Matt:                     Yeah, so your cytochrome P-450s or your phase two pathways is balancing it out, so that’s handy, but other people, their cytochrome P-450s get faster and faster to deal with these poisons.

Jeff:                       Yeah, right.

Matt:                     Then what happens, all of a sudden, they’re not feeling that the alcohol fun effects. All of a sudden, they’re starting to feel lousy like they’ve got a hangover before they’ve even got pissed.

Jeff:                       Lots of grumpy drunks.

Matt:                     The cytochrome P-450s are going too fast. I’m trying to simplify it, but it’s quite complicated. The phase one converts toxins to water-soluble, but it happens all over your body. [crosstalk 00:29:46] Breast cancer, brain, prostate cancer, cystic fibrosis, mucus inflammatory conditions, all these things are associated with cytochrome P-450s going too fast in response to toxic exposure and stress and that stuff.

What happens then is we need to have all of these crazy amounts that you can’t supply enough nutrients to keep up with phase one, but phase two needs … List all the amino acids here. We’ve got all the B vitamins. We need all the aminos. [crosstalk 00:30:17]

Steve:                   We have glucuronidation, glycination and glutathionation, so you need glutathione, you three amino acid sulfation, you need taurines and the other [inaudible 00:30:26] amino acids, so it’s basically a protein milieu.

Matt:                     The faster the cytochromes are going, the more of those nutrients you need to keep up. When we talk about supporting detoxification, we’re talking about supporting the required nutrients that your body is depleting at a rapid rate because you’re detoxifying things too fast. The reality of a detoxification, it’s not a detoxification. It’s a reboot, we need to go back and slow down those cytochrome P-450s that have been sped up.

We need to make your detoxification more efficient so your elimination is effective. We need to slow down the cytochrome P-450, stop making reactive intermediates, which contribute to allergies, lymphatic congestion, migraines, fluid retention, bad skin, food intolerances, chemical sensitivities, sticky bloods, bruising, dry mouth, constant urination.

Steve:                   Hormonal problems.

Matt:                     Visual problems, hormonal problems, of course, all those different weird forms of cancers and things like that. We need to stop making that stuff unless your body’s capable of eliminating it.

Steve:                   Do you want to list the nutrients that slow down phase one? The good ones.

Matt:                     A general rule, what did you say before that phase one is called? It mainly runs on what sort of pathway?

Steve:                   It’s hydroxylation.

Matt:                     Hydroxylation.

Steve:                   Hydroxylation is the addition of an oxygen group sticking out of a molecule, so we’ll just keep it simple for the non [crosstalk 00:31:50].

Matt:                     A lot of these antioxidants herbs, a lot of the herbs and nutrients that are called antioxidants have this trend on lowering down the cytochrome P-450.

Steve:                   Black raspberry, blue raspberry, ellagic acid from berries, pomegranates, grapes, and walnuts and all those sort of things, black tea, tumeric, those sort of things regulate the cytochrome P-450s. Remember, there’s 50,000 of these listed.

Jeff:                       Wow.

Steve:                   Matt’s going to list them all now.

Matt:                     What’s interesting in them, these compounds he’s talking about that actually help to slow down cytochrome P-450s, typically the polyphenolic compounds that are linked in with a fiber.

Jeff:                       Yes.

Matt:                     By juicing those things and throwing away the fiber and throwing away a lot of those nutrients, you’re not going to get that detoxification support you would have by having the whole fruit.

Jeff:                       Exactly. The funny thing is about juice fasting is that you’re removing the fiber and you’ve got to remember, our big detoxification is this big tube that goes through that’s called poo and it comes out in the toilet. That’s a great detoxifier. If you’re taking the fiber out of your fruit and vegetables and just juice fasting, what a crazy idea.

Matt:                     One of my favorite podcasts that we did was on the pomegranate, and it’s funny, I just went to Bali over the Christmas break and they had a similar fruit. I’d say it’s almost related in the way that it looks and the perry cup, which is the mangosteen, and I know that the benefits, not just in the fruit, but also in the pith but also in the rind and we spoke about that as well too. These are the things are bitter and they’re horrible, but these are the sorts of things [crosstalk 00:33:20].

I can’t even pith! The cool thing is that these things, again, if you’re juicing, how easy is it? As you’ve said, and we’ve said before, just take a bit of that pulp and throw it back in and if you are going to juice, which isn’t a bad thing, just use a cold press juicer and put some of that stuff [crosstalk 00:33:42].

Steve:                   Just eat the whole damn fruit with your teeth.

Matt:                     You probably couldn’t eat a whole pomegranate, like the rind because there are too much of the toxins in there. A little bit, it’s almost like arsenic. A little bit is good, too much will kill you.

Jeff:                       Kill you.

Matt:                     Basically, what you can find here is the herbs that slow down the cytochrome P-450s are typically antioxidants, that’s when we’re looking at the green teas, the milk thistles, all those sort of things, just Schisandra berries, all those ones. This is why I love NRF-2, and NRF-2 activators and that particular resilient GNRF-2, because you know what I’ve basically said. Most peoples’ problem is due to toxic exposure, phase one’s going too fast, phase two can’t keep up.

NRF-2 activators slow down phase one and speed up phase two.

Jeff:                       Yes.

Matt:                     That’s just a trend that they happen to do. You’ve got to realize even with the herbal ones, though, even with a herb like a Schisandra, very powerful NRF-2 activator, slows down phase one, speeds up phase two.

Jeff:                       Yeah, right.

Matt:                     If you don’t have the nutrients necessary for Schisandra to stimulate glucuronidation and glutathionation, and that sort of stuff, it can’t possibly work. Even herbs, just like drugs and things like that. If you don’t have the nutrients, they’re not capable of working. That’s why it’s so important, that’s why we made the pillars. We’ve got to have the nutrients and then this other stuff will force stuff to change.

Jeff:                       Well, I don’t know how many times I used to hear Matt before we started working together, people coming and going, “Oh, my friend’s using this and getting great results. I’m getting nothing.” There’s so many variables, but one of them obviously is nutrients [crosstalk 00:35:13].

Matt:                     The variable may not have anything to do with you. For example, what if we’ve done your cytochrome P-450s perfectly, we’ve balanced that out, we’ve supported your detoxification via your liver, your gallbladder is flowing nicely, it goes into your bowel. You just happen to have an overgrowth of candida clostridium or something like that. It will actually feed on that conjugated toxin and put the estrogen back in.

You can have a thing called an [estraboline 00:35:38], which is a group of bugs that love and thrive on estrogen, and as your body’s trying to eliminate it from the body, they can break it down and put it back in and feed on it over and over again. They found the same thing in people with polycystic ovarian and testosterone, you can get a test for [boline 00:35:53]. Basically, having an excessive exposure or a food source for bugs can actually overgrow a population of bugs that then … Nothing to do with you, they’re just screwing around with your hormones so they can constantly be fed what they want.

That’s why people talk about gut cleanse. You can’t actually fix this thing unless you do a gut cleanse first. What they’re often doing is they’re wiping out a lot of the microbiome that’s putting the toxins back in. It was always talked about, “Oh, you can’t clean the blood until you clean the liver. You can’t clean the liver until you clean the bowels because of the toxins coming from the bowels from the leaky gut walls,” and stuff like that, “No, man, you’ve got to kill off some of these bugs,” because they’re contributing bulk amounts of lipopolysaccharide, which is activating immune and inflammatory pathways.

They’re contributing bulk amount of toxins, but they can totally screw around with your-

Jeff:                       The one that scared a lady friend of mine was the one in the gut that could recycle estrogen. [crosstalk 00:36:50]

Matt:                     The worst thing about E. coli, it’s a normally there, so they go and do a test. They don’t measure how much of it and they say, “Oh, all that stuff is normal.” Same with candida, candida is normally there so they will go through and say, “No, don’t worry about that.” They’re not measuring the doses of these things accurately to say that, or going through the symptom picture, going, “This could be causing your problem.” That’s why when people do the gut rights and things like that and they quickly reboot the gut, all of a sudden, they’re eliminating things.

They’re not recycling things, fixes anything from skin to hormones and menstrual cycles and-

Jeff:                       Estrogen and those hormones are small molecules that are easily absorbed across the bowel, so you will reabsorb them, even if you haven’t got a leaky gut.

Steve:                   You can put them in a cream and [crosstalk 00:37:32]. The thing was that was scary, and talking specifically about estrogen detoxification again, which is probably something you coined … Well, I’d never heard of detox … I’d heard of blocking but not detoxification, but was that the estrogen would come in, it would be bound in terms of whatever thing that you’re doing. Then these little bugs would then …

Jeff:                       Break it apart.

Steve:                   Break it apart. The body was going to take it out through the poo or whatever it was going to do.

Matt:                     It’s called enterohepatic recirculation. Sorry for the big words.

Steve:                   Horrible.

Matt:                     Yeah.

Steve:                   Not the word, but the idea of it.

Jeff:                       It goes via the pathway glucuronidation and it gets bound to glucuronidase, goes into the gut, and the bug breaks it apart and you get the estrogen reabsorbed. [crosstalk 00:38:12] I want testosterone in my gut, so I get more testosterone. It doesn’t work like that, does it?

Matt:                     Well, the problem is if those same bugs are activating lipidpolysaccharides, they’re going to up-regulate your cytochrome P-450 turning your test to estrogen into a hydro if you don’t fix the problems. Well, they didn’t know but you said before as well, too, is with too much alcohol consumption in terms of, obviously, things going down the wrong pathway. People who are chronic abusers of alcohol and aren’t detoxifying it could certainly end up with things like [inaudible 00:38:43]. [crosstalk 00:38:44]

It’s full of estrogen as well. We were talking about before with bugs liberating the estrogen for reabsorption, for those taking notes, the enzyme is called beta-glucuronidase that they release. I’m only saying that because that’s the mechanism of action when people use calcium d-glucorates, but that’s also things like pomegranate, kelp, rosemary. They all have this ability to inhibit it as well.

Jeff:                       You want to inhibit it, so then you can detoxify it.

Matt:                     That way your estrogen stays … The way I imagine it, you talked about the estrogen being a tiny little molecule, so [inaudible 00:39:17] attach like a brick to it that makes it too big to be reabsorbed. Then these bugs remove that brick, the estrogen comes back, they get to feed on it again and again and they thrive on it. If I summarize what we said so far, that toxic exposure, stress, inflammation, immune activity, pollutants, poisons, venoms, of course, which is what it was designed for, all speed up phase one.

Phase one stays running fast until which time you’re capable of slowing it down because that is your survival technique. Now be aware that these survival techniques become imprinted into your memory. When you get a toxic exposure again, which is why when I try to drink Bundaberg Rum again, I instantly feel like vomiting. What happens is your body … You know that. [crosstalk 00:40:01] I went camping with a bottle of Ouzo once and I can’t drink Ouzo again. [crosstalk 00:40:12]

You know how you get these smells, you smell something and you’re like, “Ugh,” that’s actually your cytochrome P-450s reminding you that you’ve once before had to eliminate this and you almost died of poisoning, probably don’t do it again. Don’t let it get past your throat, vomit it up, because you have cytochrome P-450s all the way through.

Jeff:                       That’s so cool.

Matt:                     You see, what happens is these things adapt. Then what happens is because they stay fast, we need to slow them back down and we slow them back down with that list of antioxidants that we will actually [crosstalk 00:40:42].

Jeff:                       I got really bad food poisoning when I was young in New Zealand in a restaurant which is closed down now, called The Swiss Chalet, and we went there and we had this this meal and I remember it had this mushroom sauce on it. I could not touch mushroom sauce. I couldn’t go anywhere near mushroom sauce for probably 10-15 years.

Matt:                     I’ll tell you, this is a bit messed up. This is a little bit probably insightful stuff about myself that probably don’t need to be told, but I will anyway because I … You know of Purple Vok? [crosstalk 00:41:13] I don’t know what … I don’t normally lose my memory when I get drunk. I must have got so drunk, but anyway, whenever I see that same color purple I get anxiety and nauseous. The purple. Now, I don’t know if it’s just because it’s that same neon nightclub.

I was talking to my wife and she loves it. She thinks I’m an idiot. It’s called parfait. It’s got a picture of the Eiffel Tower on it. I don’t care, to me it reminds me of anxiety vomit. It’s that color and I was telling my wife, “I hate that color,” because she was showing me this color going, “Oh,” and I said, “No, I fucking hate that color,” and I don’t know if it’s because it’s that nightclub neon light color, but whatever it is about that color, it reminds me of nausea.

[crosstalk 00:41:56]

Jeff:                       The very first thing that I got drunk on was Purple Vok because I didn’t know what to drink, went into the bottler, because I was a  big 16-year-old so I looked 18, bought this horrible crap, drank the whole bottle of it, spewed it up all over a mate’s carpet. [crosstalk 00:42:13] The stains are still there to this day, which is just vibrant.

Matt:                     The next time she took to me to a Mexican restaurant and got me really drunk on wine, I passed out at the couch and wake up and did the same thing, but the next time it was with Mexican food and red wine. It ended badly, too much stuff happened, I just bowed out of that one.

Jeff:                       What you do when you’re young and stupid, seriously.

Matt:                     These are all examples of what happens when your phase one gets driven up through the toxic exposure. Steve probably doesn’t even have memories of those, because he never abused his body to this extreme.

Steve:                   When I was 16, I laid a bottle of Cinzano. [crosstalk 00:42:56] Well, I know the reason now, even though I was 16, I thought, “Oh, this is a lot of alcohol.” [crosstalk 00:43:03]

Matt:                     There’s a particular vodka orange that got taken off [crosstalk 00:43:10] got taken off the market because they found too much ethanol in it. It was actually making people, literally, getting blind drunk.

Jeff:                       On methanol you mean?

Matt:                     Yeah. I don’t know-

Jeff:                       Methanol causes blind drunkeness, not physical blindness. Ethanol is the antidote for it.

Matt:                     It was something horrendous too, scary, that made you suggest you shouldn’t have touched it anyway, and it was $10 a cask for vodka and orange.

Jeff:                       Who says you get what you pay for?

Matt:                     Oh no, that just keeps giving. Surely more than you paid for there. My big point about detoxification is our body is capable of detoxification if we support it nutritionally. It’s also capable of doing detoxification too well where it gets stuck into a bizarre form where it thinks it’s trying to keep you alive, which it would if it was a life-threatening poison or venom, but it’s reacting to normal, everyday toxins that way and it totally screws with your brain chemistry, your hormones and everything.

With detoxification, the simple rule of reducing cytochrome P-450s, which is reducing phase one with antioxidant herbs, slow it all down, antioxidant herbs, but reducing toxic exposure, trying to eliminate some stress, trying to reduce some inflammation and immune activity, having healthy guts, all those things will allow your cytochrome P-450s to slow down. Okay, without that you need constant support to keep them slow, which is why daily consumption of antioxidant, fruits and vegetables, and supplementation will keep that low.

Our resilience products and in Cord RX and and Gut Right, have a look at the ingredients in those. Use the supplements but you look at those foods, eat bulk of those. They will keep those pathways-

Jeff:                       Yeah, and they’re all the good foods. They’re all the goodies there. There are some that suppress it more stronger than others, like grapefruit.

Matt:                     Yeah, tell us about that.

Jeff:                       Well, grapefruit contains naringin, which is a chemical that slows down the cytochrome P-450-

Steve:                   How do you pronounce it? I thought it was naringenin. [crosstalk 00:45:04]

Matt:                     There’s naringenin, there’s naringin. They’re inter-converted.

Steve:                   What they do is they slow down the cytochrome P-450304, which is an important one because 60% of drugs metabolize that pathway. If you all had your beta blocker in the morning-

Matt:                     Don’t forget, alcohol and caffeine speed that up.

Steve:                   Yeah, right.

Jeff:                       It’s funny, these interactions.

Steve:                   If you’re trying to be healthy, you have a grapefruit with your beta blocker, your blood pressure can drop too low, you sit at the wheel, pass out and die by crashing into a tree.

Jeff:                       Don’t do that.

Steve:                   Don’t do that.

Matt:                     St. John’s Wort was the other one.

Steve:                   St. John’s Wort, that speeds it up.

Matt:                     Does it speed it up?

Steve:                   Yep. [crosstalk 00:45:42] If you’re on your warfarin to keep your clots down and you’re having your St. John’s Wort because you’re feeling a bit moody or whatever you want, and you toxify your warfarin, you can get a clot and die. I’m being a little bit [crosstalk 00:45:55]. There are now warnings “Don’t have grapefruit and this sort of thing with this medication.”

Matt:                     Yeah. Having said that though, grapefruit with caffeine is fantastic because it preserves the half-life of the-

Steve:                   Viagra, is that what you’re saying?

Matt:                     No, caffeine.

Steve:                   Caffeine, yeah. When you resume the half-life of drugs if you want to.

Matt:                     Yeah, right.

Steve:                   Now we’ve got Cialis, which you and I all take to boost our …

Matt:                     What’s that?

Steve:                   It’s a long-acting Viagra that lasts for 20 hours half-life.

Matt:                     Who the hell would want a woody for 20 hours?

Steve:                   You only get a woody for half an hour. You get it up to 20 hours, you get a half-life of the drug, so the drug lingers around your body, so it’s called the Weekender. They market it as you can take it at Friday night and it will work over the whole weekend.

Matt:                     You walk around with a woody all weekend, banging in and out [crosstalk 00:46:35]. That’s normally how you get woodies. [crosstalk 00:46:40] I read a thing … I didn’t even read it. Someone just said, “I heard a story about a bloke who took Viagra and he bled out his ears and died,” so I’ve never touched it. It’s one of those things [crosstalk 00:46:53].

Jeff:                       Again, without getting into too much detail, I’m mid-40s now, and I know a lot of guys my age might suffer from that, but take the Mars, mate.

Matt:                     Mars is enough trouble.

Jeff:                       Seriously, but I understand nitric oxide and all the rest of it, but good, healthy exercise. While we were in the States.

Matt:                     Here we go. What state, drunk?

Jeff:                       No, Texas. We were setting up here our factory over there. Anyway, so we’re hungry, we’re looking for something to eat and John goes, “Oh, look, here’s a couple places, let’s go in there,” so we go in there and it was a gay bar, which you know, that’s fine but John looks at me and he goes, “Let’s blow this joint. I don’t know about you, but I’m going next door.”

Matt:                     Detoxification and elimination, so while we’re talking about bowels, so I’ll just quickly summarize. The big point is we use these antioxidants, we use these things to slow down the cytochrome P-450s and you can research all those sort of things. Typically it’s a lot of these antioxidant herbs that we talk about. Then the only way to support phase two, the limiting factor for your ability for phase two to function is either nutrient availability.

If you simply do not have enough nutrients, for example, if you’re fasting and you’ve cut protein out of your diet and you have no amino acids to support your detoxification, you’ll get worse before you get better. Phase two, you need to support it. Then what happens, we’re talking about elimination. After phase two has deactivated the toxin using nutrients, it’s going to send it to the bowels, the microbiome is going to probably have a bigger impact on what happens to it from there.

Fiber and regulating your microbiome, or doing it in conjunction with something like a Gut Right that’s going to control what happens once it’s in the bowels. Then the other pathways, before it gets into the bowels, it has to be made into bile. Okay, so the liver makes bile, bile goes through the gallbladder and it’s the bile that eliminates the toxins into the bowels via the liver. We have a group of herbs that you can Google again called Cholagogue and choleretic herbs that increase the flow of bile.

Those nutrients you mentioned before, those amino acids, they’re called lipotropes. They actually have the ability to increase bile production apparently, and they do it by supporting phase two conjugation reactions. There’s just a hell of a lot more of them than they can fit into a little capsule. We need to look at full amino acids. That’s where essential amino acids are important. That’s why these essential amino acids must be there because you can’t do these jobs without them.

You make bile that way. If you have gallbladder problems, so if you have gallstones, that’s an indication that you don’t effectively make bile, so your elimination of toxins via your bowels from your liver is something’s gone wrong. If you’ve got a history of gallstones and gravel, what it usually means is you’ve got plenty of cholesterol in your bile, probably plenty of bile. One of three things is out of whack.

You’ve either got bile pigments, cholesterol, or lecithin out of ratios. Look into that. If you don’t have a gallbladder because it’s been removed because of stones, removing the gallbladder has stopped you getting that pain and everything like that, but it hasn’t fixed the bile production problem. If your gallbladder’s been removed and you say, “I don’t have to worry about that,” just find out why it got removed, what was going wrong with it because you’ve got a problem you need to fix.

Because the only thing that’s happening now is you don’t have a sack to catch the bile, it’s just trickling straight in your bowel, so you don’t know if there’s stones and gravel coming through. Have a look at your gallbladder and your bile to make sure you’re capable of eliminating into your bowels, then we need to make sure your bowels are regular, make sure there’s adequate fiber, microbiome is under control so this stuff can leave the body.

Otherwise, it’s going to go to the kidneys. Now kidneys are going to eliminate it with water. The biggest problems you can have with your kidneys is if your electrolytes are out of whack. If you don’t have enough calciums and magnesiums to help bind to this toxin to eliminate it in the urine, it will join to the wrong thing. For example, if you’ve got a buildup of oxalates, you’ve got a magnesium deficiency.

The body will use calcium to bond to the oxide, that makes a kidney stone. Where normally it’d make magnesium bind and it’ll eliminate through your urine. These nutrients, this is what I’m saying, and I’m not listing specific nutrients, there’s too bloody many. We’re talking about just general nutrients. Anything that’s an essential nutrient, we need to make sure you’ve got some and that’s why nutritional support is so important for detoxification.

Not organ support or not driving something with herbs or putting yourself through hell, and giving yourself diarrhea does not eliminate more. It actually creates more problems through leaky gut wall and reabsorption of toxins, it’s a funny thing. Then, when looking at the kidneys, we’ve just got to make sure they’re capable of working and that sort of stuff with a basic filter, look after that filter.

Coincidentally, a lot of the same herbs that we talked about as antioxidants that regulate the liver pathways are also anti-inflammatory and protective against the kidney nephrons and stop kidney damage. It makes it easier. Then what we’re looking at is if those things aren’t working, if your bowels aren’t eliminating and your kidneys aren’t eliminating, that’s where most of our waste gets into our lymphatics.

That’s when people talk about lymphatic drainage or that’s when people are getting … “Oh, my blood’s toxic because I’m getting boils and carbuncles or fluid retention and swelling,” and you might do a sauna or a spa or massages and things like that, but you’ve just got to be … It’s a little funny. For example, one waste, again, we mentioned oxalates before. If you’ve got an oxalate issue, you can go in a sauna and it’ll drop your oxalate.

Strip it out through your sweat. If your problem is uric acid, uric acid can’t fit through your skin, it’ll make it worse. If you do saunas to get rid of uric acid, you’ll make uric acid crystals and get gout, where if you actually supported its elimination through the kidney where you can urinate it out, that’s how you do it.

Jeff:                       I’m actually looking at using the infrared sauna at the moment, wanted to do a little bit more studying into it but it’s supposed to be quite good. I’m quite interested in … I might actually buy one of those.

Matt:                     You know what one of the funniest things are? Just quickly, I know you’ve got something, that with a sauna, one of the most important toxins that it eliminates is hypervitaminosis or excessive use of vitamins. One of our biggest problems with our defects in our liver detoxification pathways is people trying to be too clever, taking bigger doses of specific vitamins thinking it’s going to drive a pathway when it doesn’t.

It actually adds burden to you detoxification. B-3, for example, needs to be methylated to function, it will deplete all your methylators if you overdose on B-3.

Jeff:                       Yeah, it’s crazy.

Matt:                     What’s interesting about it, you might be overdosing on B-3 to build a particular enzyme called methylene-tetrahydrofolate-reductase which is essential for methylation. Overdosing them, trying to be too clever, creates problems. If you aren’t perspiring enough, then you can’t eliminate those water-soluble vitamins and they can be a toxin.

Jeff:                       Well, that vitamin Paradox that … We did the podcast on that, it was a real eye-opener for me and for a lot of other people as well too. That more is better and especially when it’s a synthetic form, the body really can have massive issues with too many vitamins. We are getting vitamin overload, which is maybe not leading to a poisoning per se, but it’s certainly leading to these sorts of issues, Matt.

Steve:                   Yeah, because you talk about saunas and we talk about sweating it out and that sort of thing, a great way to move lymphs and to sweat it out is to go for a run or something, or do some intense exercise. It also burns fat, which is where a lot of your fat-soluble toxins, it sweats it out of your body, helps your bowels, helps you urinate, so that’s a good [crosstalk 00:54:12].

Matt:                     The architecture of lymph.

Steve:                   Okay.

Matt:                     It doesn’t have a heartbeat.

Steve:                   It doesn’t. The lymph goes throughout your whole body … It’s your second circulatory system and it ends up back at the top of your heart where it goes in your bloodstream again, so you want to get the lymph. The lymph actually has one-way valves in it and the only way you move the lymph with the muscle contraction, so if you contract your muscle while running or gym-ing or whatever it is, then the lymph moves and it can move through the lymphatic system.

People go, “Oh, I’ll go and get a lymph massage,” well, go for a run or go to the gym.

Matt:                     Because of those one-way valves, anytime you get the momentum and movement of fluid under the skin, they will only go one-way, and as you drag it up it’s going to drag more and because of the valve, stops it going back, you can actually clear it away. Anytime you do lymphatic, and you can do the simplest thing. If you’ve got a problem with lymphatic congestion, when you just do your normal process of showering or something like that, if you always do it back towards the heart, you’re actually working the lymph while you’re just washing your skin.

You could do that with dry skin brushing. You can do that when you dry yourself off. You can do that with moisturizer, anything you want to do. If you’ve got tendency for fluid retention in the extremities, always drive that lymph back. The heart is going to push the blood that way, you’re not going to push it backwards but you can get that lymph moving through so many different ways.

Steve:                   That’s why, of course, if you get a snake bite from poisoning you put a bandage above it [crosstalk 00:55:27] it goes through your lymph system.

Matt:                     That’s why it used to be a tourniquet to try to shut down the blood. Now, they go, “No, we’ve got to immobilize the joint because we’ve got to stop muscle contractions from pushing the poison around.” If you get bitten by a snake, just hang your leg down if it’s your leg and try not to move it and you just basically splint it and hold it and the whole point is is no muscle contractions.

Steve:                   Yeah, you bandage it up to restrict the lymph movements and-

Matt:                     You don’t want your heart beating too much because it’s going to-

Jeff:                       Yeah, you heard that joke about the two guys that went camping and one of them … One of the guys was going to the toilet, he was having a piss and big brown snake came up and bit him on the pecker. Anyway, fell over and he went, “Mate, I’ve been bitten by a snake, he got me on the pecker,” and he’s going, “Mate, lay there, immobilize it, don’t do anything,” he goes to run to help.

There’s a range station, so he runs up there and he goes, “My mate’s been bitten on the pecker, what do I do?” He says, “Quickly go back, make a small incision, suck out the poison.” He runs back to his mate and he says, “I can feel darkness is closing in. What did he say?” and he goes, “Sorry mate, you’re going to die.” [inaudible 00:56:44] Matt, going back to this comment from a dietitian saying that it doesn’t matter what you eat and all that, I think the lacking of understanding of the biochemistry behind this.

Dietitians, and I’m going to get in trouble for this, but they don’t seem to recognize the CYPs, phase one, phase two-

Matt:                     You know what bugs me the most about these people? [crosstalk 00:57:07] I’m ready for it because it says, “I believe it’s true.” I don’t believe they have any training in the functional properties of foods. I don’t believe they have any respect for foods’ abilities to manipulate enzyme systems for them to do these things, I think they’re looking at macros. They’re looking at protein carb and fat, they’re looking at the body has organ systems.

I think they’ve totally forgotten that foods are sources of nutrients and the fact that they’ve forgotten that food is a source of nutrients and nutrients are essential for survival, just like when you show a doctor a Krebs cycle or the vitamins associated with mitochondrial stuff, they’re like, “Oh, I totally forgot all about that. That’s where they actually sit. That’s why we need them.”

I honestly believe dietitians are looking at doing nothing more than promoting the food pyramid and not instructing people of the functional benefits of food, things like macrobiotic recipes, actual using food for therapy, they don’t consider that at all. They’re looking at body composition based on macros alone and fiber.

Jeff:                       Yeah. Well, I agree and the paper, just read the title, “Modulation of Metabolic Detoxification Pathways Using Foods and Food-Derived Components: A scientific Review.” That’s the paper I got this information from, so that tells you that foods modulate metabolic pathways. Wouldn’t you want to beneficially modify those pathways?

Matt:                     We’re talking about two things here. Foods and herbs, and that they have the ability to create a dynamic change. We’re talking about essential nutrients. Make sure you’re capable of doing it and herbs and foods have the ability to manipulate the pathways and change them, and if you strategize that properly, you can offset for any insults that you’ve dealt with, you can reboot, you can rechange, you can clear out the stuff that you’ve lost.

Jeff:                       Yeah, absolutely, and it goes on to talk about the specific foods that benefit this. This is what we’re promoting. We’re promoting the basic nutrients, the oils, of course, like orum oil are fantastic because it gets the bile flow a bit and it helps with detox. Essential fats are good and you get these nutrients of these foods we’ve talked about, great fiber, exercise, brushing, saunas, these things help with detoxification.

You can’t just say, “Your body will take care of itself. It’s got a liver.” It’s like, “Well, I’ve got a car but it doesn’t drive to Perth. I need to fuel it,” and what we’re talking about is giving the car the fuel to do the job.

Matt:                     Also, these herbs. We’re talking about the ability to hit the throttle and hit the brake and just manipulate the speed of different systems and you combine that with essential nutrients and your body’s capable of cleaning up some of the mess. It’s rubbish to think that there is no amount of poison that you can consume that your body can’t deal with, that’s why it’s poison. That’s why it’s skull and crossbones.

Jeff:                       Just quickly, I might have made a mistake before. Steve, didn’t they used to give people arsenic and cyanide was the other one in small amounts that is beneficial, but in large amounts will kill you, obviously?

Steve:                   Yeah. Well, cyanide is found in foods, like the isothiocyanates in apples or broccoli and that sort of thing, and that has metabolic effects because of these … I’ll call it a mild toxin but it’s not cyanide.

Matt:                     It resembles a toxin, so it tricks the body into thinking you’ve got a poison coming, and so in response to its thinking a poison’s coming, it responds by increasing your antioxidant pathways and now enhancing detox … That’s how she Schisandras, resveratrols, most of these things work by tricking the body into thinking they’re actually a poison. Then the body speeds up, preparing for a poison, and then it can just deal with the stuff that’s coming in-

Steve:                   Now, look, if you’re in 1946 and you’re in the Nuremberg Trials, the Nazis did take cyanide capsules at a huge station that killed them instantly. I was there, I’m old enough, but it just stops your mitochondria. Cyanide, at the wrong dose, will flat-out kill you.

Jeff:                       You looked a little bit like Hisla. Was it Hisla? I think a little bit.

Steve:                   Do you think? [crosstalk 01:00:47] I’m going to forget Hitler’s name.

Jeff:                       No, not Hitler. Hisla. He was one of the worst …

Steve:                   Was he the captain of the SS?

Matt:                     Yeah, I don’t like to read about it. Part-Jewish, part-German.

Steve:                   Really?

Matt:                     Yeah, surprise.

Jeff:                       My son calls you Rabbi Matt.

Steve:                   I’m Scottish. I’m boring.

Matt:                     You should get one of those [crosstalk 01:01:12] panel for a sex machine.

Jeff:                       I don’t need to, thank you Matthew. You guys are working on the solution for that.

Matt:                     I’m going to get you a little cap.

Jeff:                       Yeah. It’d good be Jewish, to cover those little bald patch. Maybe that’s where it started. I’m not too sure.

Matt:                     What about monks, then, they shaved theirs. Friars and that sort of stuff.

Jeff:                       I’m Australian anyway. I’m pretty boring, fifth, sixth-generation.

Matt:                     Same here.

Jeff:                       Before that it was English and Scottish and the unusual convict things.

Matt:                     My self-esteem, I hate myself, love myself.

Jeff:                       All right, anything else?

Matt:                     No.

Jeff:                       Because we’ve got some FAQs to get into.

Steve:                   Yeah, no, absolutely. This is what it’s all about. It’s about detox. I like the concept of detoxifying as you go.

Matt:                     I do want to use your brain, though, to research the infrared saunas.

Steve:                   Yeah, I do too. I’m interested in that.

Matt:                     Looking at manipulating hormones and detoxification and everything through … Because you’ve got the traditional Swedish sauna, which is where you put hot rocks and you’re really heating up the body big time. That can affect your swimmers, though, can’t it?

Steve:                   It can. Temperatures of 39 and above kill your swimmers, which is often a good thing if you’re married like us.

Matt:                     Did I tell you my hip-hop theory?

Steve:                   You didn’t.

Matt:                     Yes. You know how there’s all this hip-hop and rap music and no one listens to rock and roll as much as they used to?

Steve:                   Well, speak for yourself.

Matt:                     My theory was in the ’70s and ’80s, what you have to realize are the rock and roll people were the ones that had the tight jeans.

Steve:                   They did.

Matt:                     Their nuts get hot and they don’t make the same amount of sperm. The baggy pant hip-hop rappers bred like rabbits, so now what’s happened is there’s this genetic potential of baggy-pant-wearing people with nuts full of sperm, the rock and roll guys can’t keep up. What’s happening now is we’ve lost a lot of our rock and roll genetic material and then we’ve acquired hip-hop/rap stuff and look what’s happened to the world.

Steve:                   It’s natural selection in a bad way.

Matt:                     Just look what’s happened to the world, Steve.

Steve:                   Yeah. I know.

Jeff:                       Well, that means AFL players should’ve been extinct.

Steve:                   Extinct, yeah.

Matt:                     There’s a damn good reason why it’s just AFL, Australian, Aussie rules, it’s never expanded. They tried doing it in other countries, they couldn’t even breed a next-generation.

Steve:                   I love the old rock and roll.

Matt:                     Anyway. What were you talking about?

Jeff:                       [crosstalk 01:03:28] In saunas. Yeah.

Steve:                   Did you like that segue to Kiss?

Jeff:                       It was a great Kiss song. [crosstalk 01:03:36]

Steve:                   I like the old rock things, I’m old.

Matt:                     You’ve got any kids, Steve?

Steve:                   Have any kids? No.

Matt:                     Tight jeans, see?

Steve:                   Tight jeans. I’m a rocker.

Matt:                     Rocker, tight jeans, you will not contribute to the genetic rock and roll future of it.

Steve:                   That’s probably a good thing.

Jeff:                       I don’t know. All right, here we go.

Steve:                   That’s for the pith.

Jeff:                       Before that we’ve got a quick review. Anyway, just thanks guys for leaving the reviews. It really helps us a lot in terms of getting the word out there, so I just want to read out this one. Thanks, and they gave us a five-star review. Thank you so much for the interesting and informative podcasts. I listen almost every day and really have turned around thyroid issues that no one else seems to understand or care about. Thank you and keep up the great work. Thanks very much for that.

Okay, guys, let’s get into some FAQs. This one’s from Karen. Hey guys, my name is Karen. I run a few stores down in South Australia. Sorry Matt, I can’t mention the name. We have recently started stocking your products and I’ve been dealing with theo, that’s the Western Australian … If you can understand them, the accent is Greek.

Matt:                     Don’t you worry about this.

Jeff:                       Personally, I’ve got an elaborate inquiry I was hoping you could help me with. I am a soccer player at a semi-pro level, same as me. During the off-season decided to go completely keto. I really enjoyed the benefits of fat loss, sharper mind, et cetera. We’ve recently started preseason component, which is based around increasing lactic tolerance. I’m still fluctuating in and out of ketosis and my body is performing well, so it can be highly anaerobic sport and I’m wondering what kind of eating diet I should use during the season and surrounding my preseason competitive games.

My idea is that I would run a CKD throughout the season, so that’s a ketogenic diet, cyclic ketogenic, which is the one that Dave Polumbo recommends, which also … I like the cyclic ketogenic type. This would allow me to increase my mitochondrial efficiency during the week and keep my weight down and really feel the benefits when loaded with carbs for the game. If you agree with this, do you think three scoops of infrared coupled with some caffeine an hour before the start of the game is enough of a carbon take to supply energy for 90 minutes?

Should I be carbonating the night before also? Do you recommend keto diet for soccer players? If not, do you recommend low-carb fat-adapted diet under 150 grams? If not, what eating style and supplements do you recommend? My current daily supplement intake has multi-foods in MST, Mars, fish oil, Gut Right, creatine-monohydrate-citrulline-malate, MCT with coffee in the morning, hydrolyte, Schisandra.

I got this because I don’t take infrared frequently and only before games and I wanted to experience the benefits from taking it regularly, infrared one hour before games and I only take this when I’m competing. Sometimes I take 5-HTP and melatonin in the evenings if I’m feeling stressed. I recently purchased some DMG. Is it worth throwing this into the mix?

Matt:                     [inaudible 01:06:47]

Jeff:                       [inaudible 01:06:49] Really appreciate your time and any response would be great. I feel I’ve made some great lifestyle changes and I’ve felt and seen great benefits, but now a bit confused how to optimize my competitive performance. Thanks, Karen. Really great questions, Karen. If anything, it’s the dropping weight, I’m dropping around about eight kilos at the moment to make myself a leaner, faster machine, getting over the injury, so I’m coupling that with weights during the off-season.

I thought the same thing, Matt. I know that you spoke a lot about the benefits of going onto a ketogenic diet to increase mitochondrial density.

Matt:                     Especially in the off-season. Because what happens if you do it over a period of months and that sort of stuff you get a thing called mitochondrial biogenesis where you create more mitochondria to make more energy with that deficient carbohydrate fuel. That higher level of fat requires more cells to convert it. There’s a couple of different schools of thought. For starters before I forget, you probably give yourself the green apple splatters doing three scoops of infrared, because per serve, you’ve got about 120 milligrams of magnesium.

We don’t muck around with those electrolytes there in proper doses and if you might get the carbs, but you’ll probably squirt most of it out with the magnesium. There’s a lot of different ways of doing this, but what I would be inclined to say is continue with the ketogenic-style diet to keep forcing that mitochondrial biogenesis. Over time your body will adapt and you’ll become a more efficient sporting machine because of it.

What I would do in this stage is actually work on replenishing the glycogen after depletion. I’d keep the carbs to post-training, so what I’d basically do is when you’re training throughout the week, as you deplete your glycogen, replenish it at the end so we can keep that glycogen reserve there. The rest of the time on your daily basis, keep running on that low-carb-style diet with a higher fat so you can adapt to that higher fat diet by building more mitochondria.

Then around when you’re competing and then, post-training, just replenish the glycogen with the carbs then, so a couple of serves of infrared should be adequate. I bet you could do another serve maybe at halftime or something like that. Split it up so you could do two before and then maybe another one at halftime, but you’re going to have to test your tolerance.

Jeff:                       See, I can drink that no problem.

Matt:                     Maybe test it while in a game.

Jeff:                       Yeah, typically you’ve got trial games before the season starts anyway, but one of the things I’d be concerned, then, is how much glycogen, how much energy can you actually store in the liver and in the muscles with carbohydrates before a game? Is it enough to see you all the way through? Because the thing is though is that, obviously, if you look at digestion time of carbohydrates, you could have … You don’t want a lot of blood in your stomach, so you don’t want to be having a lot of complex carbohydrates or slow digestion type carbohydrates.

Matt:                     They’re mainly going into your blood. You don’t build much glycogen pregame. You don’t build any glycogen, but you’ve got to load up the glycogen prior, but best time to do that is after training. When it’s you deplete the glycogen, load back up.

Jeff:                       Well, he’s got creatine-monohydrate, perfect time to put the creatine in with the carbohydrates for a free ride into the muscle cell, which I think is great. Then in terms of, then, say pregame, let’s say the day of the game, let’s say he’s playing on a Saturday [crosstalk 01:09:49].

Matt:                     Regulating sugar in the blood, and then in that instance that keeps you sharp and we’re trying to prevent hypoglycemia and that sort of stuff which will create the brain farts right before a game, just a matter of doing one or two serves of the infrared.

Jeff:                       At lunchtime, could he maybe take a small amount of carbohydrates at that time or no?

Steve:                   The game day?

Jeff:                       On the game day.

Steve:                   A small amount, absolutely.

Matt:                     Is it going to do much for glycogen reserves, though? He’s just going to burn it in his bloodstream. The best way to replenish your glycogen, so it’s after training. It’s better off replenishing … If he’s playing a game on a Saturday and he does a big … If he does training Thursdays and Fridays or whatever, it’s when you load up then and most of that glycogen is going to stay in reserves if you’re not fully depleting it.

Then you’re trying to keep your blood levels topped up. If you’ve got adequate calorie, if you’re not in a calorie deficit using your keto system with a higher fat, you won’t deplete days of glycogen reserves by being in calorie deficit over that period of time, which means it most of that should stay there. You’ll run most of the stuff out of your bloodstream and then you’ll be loaded up for your game.

It’s just a matter of putting some sugar into your blood in the game.

Steve:                   Absolutely.

Matt:                     Because of that keto phase, you’re insulin sensitive. These things are causing these reactive hypos.

Steve:                   Remember, straight after exercise, 5-adenosine-monophosphate comes out and trans-locates those glute-4 transporters to glucose into the muscles to make the glycogen. It is the correct time is through and after exercise. They caught used to call it the glycogen window in my day. I don’t know …

Matt:                     You may not realize that glycogen, when that stays open until the glycogen is replenished.

Jeff:                       Trying to actually take nutrients directly after training to get it into the muscle, it’s funny. There’s a lot of indication now that the absorption of the nutrients doesn’t happen that quickly and I guess it depends on what it is that you’re taking.

Matt:                     When you’re empty, the thing is the way our bodies are set up through these passive diffusion and active transport mechanisms, that if you are deficient in something or if you are empty of something, your body sucks it straight in, which is why the main claim to fame with that glycogen window is the ability to use a glute-4 transporter to get the sugar in, not even needing insulin. That didn’t require that. If you are insulin-resistant and struggling to get sugar into your muscles for fuel, if your muscles are full of …

When they’re empty, it’ll suck it through. It eliminates insulin resistance as an issue of putting it … That’s, again, why that creatine with the carbs, post-workout, makes so much more sense.

Steve:                   Yeah, great idea.

Jeff:                       Yep, and again, definitely throwing your protein at the same time, either the aminos, which … Aminos taste great and actually mix quite nicely with the infrared, and definitely throw a scoop of creatine, using the citrulline malate. In fact, his supplement stack looks pretty similar to mine. I definitely recommend the Amp as well too.

Matt:                     The Body Balance. If he puts a Body Balance in, we’re going to be stimulating the faccia and we’re stimulating the satellite cells and it’s actually the collagen-derived fibroblast that are responsible for the mitochondrial biogenesis, and without directly stimulating those, he won’t be getting it as good as it can.

Jeff:                       You’re right Matt, especially after any sort of training. I think the Amp as well to pregame is great. Awesome pregame and, again, if you are during training and all the rest of it running low-carb, taking the Amp is just going to help your body to suck more of the fat through to use as fuel and if you are doing the cyclic carb, some people take longer before they tip back into that ketogenic, so the Amp’s going to help with that, so 100% recommend the Amp before any training but also before and during a game it really is excellent for opening …

I was running circles around the guys in my team at the end simply because … Well, I wasn’t any fitter, wasn’t really doing too much more training, but my lungs would open up, all the nasal pathways, and I was getting the benefits of the Amp.

Steve:                   You asked about DMG. What do we think about that?

Matt:                     The best studies on dimethyl glycine … Well, that’s a good question. Trimethylglycine basically donates a methyl group for methylation processes, which is an essential pathway of creatinine phosphate regeneration and ATP regeneration … Then what’s left after that is dimethyl glycine. The supplements, what they usually do is about the loading, if you want to do loading … I do a load-up on about a gram of trimethylglycine, also known as betaine.

A gram of that a day for about 10 days will be equivalent to the studies of dimethyl glycine based on about 500 milligrams per day for 10 days that improved …

Steve:                   Oxygen dumping equivalent to training at altitudes?

Matt:                     The liquid DMG was 10 mils per day for 10 days and you get a 100-mL bottle and you load up, makes a massive difference. I’m just trying to rack my brain because I didn’t Google it or anything, but the per dose, I’m pretty sure that that 10 mils was equivalent to only about 500 milligrams of miles of dimethyl glycine. Hopefully that answers your question, but we use trimethylglycine because you just get a little bit more bang for your buck.

Jeff:                       Yeah. Okay, so DMG’s not bad, but just trimethylglycine.

Matt:                     Yeah, TMG’s got an extra M. Yeah, it’s a tri instead of a di.

Jeff:                       Three’s better than two.

Matt:                     Have we got time for one more? Yeah, one more.

Jeff:                       Okay, can we do this one, Matt? While I read this, you look at the blood. Okay, you’ve already looked at this? Good man. This one’s from Monica. Hi lovely people. I was wondering if you could help me. I’ve been listening to the podcast for quite some time and now would like some advice on the best products to use please. I’m 47 and my hormones are completely out of whack and would to bring them back into balance as soon as possible.

I have an endometrial ablation. In 2012, due to insanely heavy periods that lasted for over two weeks, plus a uterine fibroid and polyps. Since then I have been extremely light period, however, it still lasts for one to two weeks and I’m now getting breakthrough bleeding as well and my breasts get sore and swollen and I seem to be ovulating fortnightly. I have also had an underactive thyroid and have put a lot of weight on.

However, I have hit around 16 kilos through juicing over the past six months and only have about five kilos left to go. I have difficulty getting to sleep and staying asleep, plus uncontrollably hot at night. My libido has recently disappeared and right now it feels like it won’t ever come back. I am consistently exhausted and feel depressed with little to no motivation. I practice hot yoga about five times per week, but don’t do any other form of regular exercise. Any advice you are able to offer would be greatly received. Thank you, Monica.

Steve-O, you’ve looked at the blood test.

Steve:                   Yeah. She’s on replete, her thyroid, according to the blood test, is actually very healthy. TSH of 0.67, which is supposed to be good, but I’ll get to why that’s a problem. Her hormones are within the normal range, but they didn’t measure testosterone which is interesting. TSH is normal. The one thing that was out with the platelets were high, so obviously her platelets are high because she had some bleeding disorders in the past and so that could have screwed that up.

Apart from the platelets being out, her blood tests are relatively healthy.

Matt:                     Her iron is high.

Steve:                   Well, it’s normal.

Matt:                     It’s normal?

Steve:                   Yeah.

Matt:                     That’s amazing.

Steve:                   Yeah, the iron in the blood is good, the transfer and storage of iron is good, and everything else is good too. It’s very interesting that she’s got real symptoms, but good blood results. This is a classic example of testing the wrong things in the thyroid. She’s got very low TSH, would make you think she’s probably got high reverse T3, but it wasn’t tested, because reverse T3 if it’s high will suppress TSH.

Again, it’s the classic, “Well, I’ll check a few things and hope for the best,” and I’m not blaming the GP because this is what their training is and they measure it and they go, “No, you’re healthy, bye. It’s not your thyroid, bye.” Well, it is.

Matt:                     The funny thing is the range, Steve, 0.5 to 0.4 at 0.67 you go in a different diet and they’ll go, “Oh, you’ve got thyroid disease.” In fact, they’ll probably say you’ve got Graves disease, you’ll be running with your high thyroid [crosstalk 01:17:28].

Steve:                   A low TSH means you’ve typically got a higher thyroid, so she’s typically got a higher thyroid, but I think those results are wrong because-

Matt:                     Especially if you have a look at the ratios of the hormones too, so we have a look at these hormones with a relative deficiency of progesterone, but interestingly the follicle stimulating hormone, the luteinizing hormone from the brain is yelling at the body to make more hormone and the body is not listening. It’s actually the follicle stimulating hormone and luteinizing hormone surges that create the hot flashing and the night sweats, not the lack of hormones.

It’s the brain yelling at the body to make hormone, and so it’s a little bit out of whack and that bleeding and the fibroids was an indication of an adequate progesterone and it’s still low.

Steve:                   Low/normal progesterone but high/normal estrogen, so it’s within the range but she’s estrogen dominant.

Matt:                     Yeah, and that will contribute to a reverse T3 production and inhibit thyroid, so the way we would probably treat it would be venous to get that progesterone up and we use T-432+ to make sure the thyroid’s capable o working because it doesn’t really matter. You can get the fast or slow depending on all sorts of different thyroid issues, but we need to get the progesterone/estrogen ratios right first.

Hey, did you also notice the blood looks a little bit funny?

Steve:                   Yeah.

Matt:                     What’s happened is the range is, again, not outside the range but cell volume is a size that tells you how big your red blood cells are. Every day your red blood cell grows a little bit bigger and now the range goes from 80 to 96 as opposed to 94. Hers are 94 across the … What that tells us is she’ll have some new, fresh little bloods that are nice and healthy and delivering a lot of oxygen, a lot of her blood will be full of old, rubbish-y old blood that delivers no energy.

It gives you the feeling of anemias and fatigue, but that’s a definite indication of needing more folate and B-12. We’ll send out that multi-food to make sure the folate and B-12 … Now what’s interesting, folate and B-12 is needed to make platelets, so with the bleeding all the folate and B-12 might have been sent down towards survival pathways through platelets and stress and anxiety, depleting the folate and B-12’s ability to detoxify the hormone, estrogen and actually regulate the production of new, fresh red blood cells.

Even the means of hydration, 32, the range goes from 27 to 32. These are big, fat cells that they can’t fit into the micro [inaudible 01:19:45] and give you any energy. It causes things like migraines and fatigue and all that.

Steve:                   Blood levels are normal and iron is healthy, but if you look closer-

Matt:                     If you put it under microscope-

Steve:                   These morbidly obese … Can I say that? Morbidly obese.

Matt:                     You’re talking about red blood … You’re going to get a complaint from a red blood cell.

Jeff:                       How dare you. I choose to identify as a young, healthy red blood cell.

Matt:                     I choose to identify as a white blood cell.

Steve:                   Racism! I’m calling them red. All whites are good in this. [crosstalk 01:20:17]

Matt:                     Just mash it. Well, the funny thing is that’s what they’ve done here when they do these testing. They get your blood, they mash it all up together and tell you what it’s made up of. What we’d like to do, I love putting blood under a microscope and watching its properties. You can see its antioxidant ability. You can see the elasticity in the membranes. You can see the size, you can see how they interact with each other, quality aspects of your blood rather than just quantity.

You can start to analyze it, otherwise we’re looking at these ratios trying to go, “This is up and that’s down,” and that sort of stuff. I reckon if you did multi-food, T-432 alpha venous, what else?

Steve:                   I was thinking something for libido, but I was thinking prime-E, but I guess you might [crosstalk 01:21:02].

Matt:                     It should do it, but if it doesn’t, just jack in the prime and the way to do it, if you want to do both, is you do four venous in the morning and that’s the proper way. Actually just do four venous every morning anyway, so do that straight away because that’s the best way to get it to interact with the pituitary gland, is consistent dosing. Then you do the prime at night because prime also has that ability to drop cortisol, put you into deep sleep. Straight after, you’re a sexual tyrannosaurus.

Jeff:                       Well, I think we should do that. Obviously mentioned it, so it’s a concern.

Matt:                     Yeah. Let’s do it. Venous in the morning, multi-food, T-432, just do one capsule three times a day. Good on her for getting 16 kilos off.

Jeff:                       Interesting with the juicing as well, too. The funny thing is, and I’ve got to mention this really quickly. In fact, I wouldn’t mind mentioning more of this … I’ve read a great book over Christmas, which I’ll pass on to Steve. Bitter old Steve, the book.

Steve:                   Right. Okay.

Jeff:                       Which is Tim Ferriss’s “The 4-Hour Body,” and the really cool thing is that I was theorizing a lot of maximizing muscle growth on … Return on investment, which is how much time … I don’t have a lot of time. I’m not trying to get on stage or anything like that, but for football I want obviously to make sure that my shoulder’s repaired so that when I go back I can take the knocks and what have you, and I loved it.

There’s so many things that Tim Ferriss talks about in this book.

Steve:                   What’s the book called?

Jeff:                       It’s called “The 4-Hour Body.”

Steve:                   That’s right, “4-Hour Body,” Tim Ferriss. I’m going to read it.

Jeff:                       He’s talking about polyphenols, he’s talking about so much stuff that we talk about and I love it because he’s really … Look, I’m putting forward this information. He does a lot of studies, Steve. You guys would love him because he’s really research-based but he’s not afraid to put forward some hypotheses as well too, and even so, he says, “Look, there’s not a lot of data here, I still think there’s something here.”

I love that, so he’s not afraid to actually say, “Look, I think this is what it could be.” Over how much weight, so with that training he put on about 15 kilos of muscle in 28 days. Now a lot of people rubbished him and said, “That’s impossible. You can’t do it.” I love it because he goes, “No, it’s not about calories in/calories out. You’ve got to understand the hormones in the body. You’ve got understand all the other things, your insulin and your testosterone.” He’s really smart.

If you’re interested, he goes through about talking to people about how to run faster, how to do marathons. He really is, and I hate to say the word because it’s way overused, but he bio-hacks everything and he looks at the best return on investment to make you a better athlete, lose weight faster, changing diet, more muscle more quickly. He talks about diet training. He talks about hormones. He’s really smart. Anyway [crosstalk 01:23:46].

I’ve got a bit of a man crush on him, to tell you the truth.

Matt:                     He’s got a body.

Jeff:                       Yeah.

Steve:                   Seeing fat.

Jeff:                       Thanks. Are you talking about me, Steve?

Steve:                   Yeah, absolutely.

Matt:                     That’s strange. Well, that’s a roof for me. I’ve got to go. Yes. See you later guys.

Steve:                   Bye.

Jeff:                       Bye.

Speaker 2:           Thanks for listening and remember question everything. Well, except what we say.