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Episode 159 – Pomegranate Pulled Apart




Jeff:     Welcome to the ATP Project. Pomegranate: The Miracle Fruit. In today’s podcast, Matt and I discuss the benefits of consuming pomegranate. From the fruit, peel, flowers and leaves, the pomegranate has amazing health benefits that can help with everything, from gut health to hardening of the arteries.

As always, this information is not designed to diagnose, treat, prevent or cure any condition, and is for information purposes only. Please discuss any information in this podcast with your healthcare professional before making any changes to your current lifestyle. Stay tuned, the ATP Project is about to start.

Speaker 2:       Welcome to the ATP Project. Delivering the irreverent truth about health, aging, performance, and looking good. If you’re sick and tired of being sick and tired, ready to perform at your best or somewhere in between, then sit back, relax and open your mind as Jeff and Matt battle the status quo and discuss everything health related that can make you better.

Jeff:     Welcome to the ATP Project. You’re here with your host Matt and Jeff. No Steve again today, Matt?

Matt:   No, he’s still on his honeymoon.

Jeff:     Oh my gosh. He must be getting good at it now.

Matt:   What?

Jeff:     The honeymooning. But what I was going to say is that today we’re talking about pomegranate, the miracle fruit.

Matt:   I like pomegranate.

Jeff:     Pomegranates are amazing. Then the funny thing is, is that it’s folklore if you like, or its lore goes back centuries. In fact, they even believe, some people believe that you know how they used to refer to the fruit in the Garden of Eden as being an apple, which actually there’s no mention of it being a fruit at all, but many people have put forward it’s actually a pomegranate, because it kind of came from that area, from Persia basically, I believe.

It’s funny, just having a little look into the history of it, all the pharaohs and all used to revere it. I mean it’s been used for, obviously its medicinal purposes as well too, which we kind of talk a little bit about that. But it spread all through Asia, all through Africa, even I believe, and I’m not sure if this is right, the country Granada was also actually named after it. Don’t ask me why?

Matt:   Oh really.

Jeff:     Yeah.

Matt:   You know when you said that earlier?

Jeff:     Yeah.

Matt:   You know how messed up I am-

Jeff:     Yeah, or Granada.

Matt:   … in regards to my geography and all that sort of stuff? I actually thought you meant that frozen stuff that you put over your dessert.

Jeff:     What’s that called?

Matt:   Granada.

Jeff:     Is it?

Matt:   Granada, isn’t it?

Jeff:     I don’t know.

Matt:   I just looked at the camera so as if someone in the audience was going to go, “Yeah, yeah that’s what it is.” You know, what do they call that shit? You know when you make an icy thing, and you scrape up a and you throw it on your dessert if you’re flash? No?

Jeff:     No. I don’t.

Matt:   People do that and it’s called Granada, I’m sure of it.

Jeff:     Anyway, pomegranates is a pretty cool fruit. Its been used for everything including bath scrubs an astringentess for topical face things. But Matt today we’re going to talk about whatever girls do and some guys. Hey, whatever tickles your fancy, I’m not judging anyone, but look in terms of … I’ll just stop digging. In terms of, Matt, its medicinal purposes which is what we …

Okay, I’m going to start talking about something that we actually know a little bit about. Matt, in terms of its benefits as far as health is concerned, and I love pomegranate, it’s bugger of a fruit to eat, but mind you I did actually find a little YouTube video on how to cut it and eat it, which I tried the other day, which worked perfectly. So we’ll put a link to that up.

Matt:   Yeah. Yeah. Cool.

Jeff:     Basically, what you do is you cut a circle around the top, a circle around the bottom and then you score the fruit and it just peels open and then you can just easily take the fruit.

Matt:   Really?

Jeff:     Because what I used to do, I used to make an absolute hash of it.

Matt:   I just cut mine in half and just bash the hell out if it and all the little nuts fall out, all the little-

Jeff:     Pods.

Matt:   … pods

Jeff:     But don’t you find that the pods, some of them get stuck and you can’t get them out and then you try to get them out and they squish?

Matt:   Sometimes, just give them a wiggle.

Jeff:     Anyway. So what’s so interesting about pomegranate Matt?

Matt:   Pomegranates is great. One of the reasons why I’ve researched a fair bit into pomegranate is because I’m a terrible gardener. I always try to grow all these medicinal herbs and I try to grow all these amazing super fruits and foods, and then I just kill stuff. Then those things that die, I just chop them out, put another thing in. But pomegranate, it’s really hard to kill. So I manage to be quite successful growing it.

But the cool thing is about pomegranate, all year round you might find some benefit from it. You might need different parts of it all the time, but it only fruits certain times of a year. It’s a very productive plant, it fruits a lot, but even when it’s not fruiting you can actually use the leaves, you can use the flowers.

Then when you actually take the juice out of the fruit or like you were talking about, how to get the little pods, juicy pulp pod things out of it. But 40% of the actual fruit itself is pulp and it’s the pulp that’s in the peel and it’s very, very therapeutic.

So when you have a look at it today, I’ll quickly run through the leaves, how to use the leaves, what they’re good for. How to use the flowers, what they’re good for. How to use the oils and that sort of stuff out of those things. Looking at the peel and all the pulp. We’ll also then look at the seed that’s left over.

There are often people, a lot of people that juice things remove the seed as well. So we’ll talk about the seed and the seed oils. Then we’ll talk about the juice. Then maybe even some really cool research on pomegranate vinegars, and that sort of stuff as well. So we’ll show the whole plant and the whole fruit, everything about it, how to use it and what it’s good for, and that sort of stuff.

Jeff:     It’s amazing.

Matt:   It’s kind of cool because every part of it you don’t even need to wash a thing.

Jeff:     Well before I had no idea about the flowers. I had no idea about the leaves. I mean that does make sense, but I was thinking of obviously when you’re talking about medicinal purposes, I knew that the pericarp or the … whatever you call it, which is the outside-

Matt:   Yeah, the pulpy stuff.

Jeff:     … the bitter, the bitter nasty sort of stuff, it’s very similar in a way to mangosteen, which has got a lot of benefits as well too.

Matt:   The Johnfruit?

Jeff:     Yeah. Queen of the fruits, because that’s its name is queen of the fruits. I thought pomegranate was king of the fruits. We were talking about this off air and I think mangosteen is called queen of the fruits and you go, “What, it’s named after John?”

Actually, it’s funny, I think Cleopatra liked pomegranate. That doesn’t work. Anyway, so what it comes down to though is that so many medicinal properties within the different compounds, I would have only thought of the pericarp or the outside, the seed and the fruit itself.

Matt:   Most products that are available are just the juice. So most people that talk about pomegranate all the benefits of pomegranate, they’re all talking about just drinking the juice or squashing the juice out of those little things and throwing the rest away.

Jeff:     So Matt, where do you want to start because I mean do you want to start with the juice because obviously that’s recommended a lot? Some of the basic information that I knew, I had a friend of mine who had very bad cholesterol and a lot of plaque on the arteries and I’d done a lot of research into the fact that it has a profound impact on helping to reduce and remove plaque out of the arteries. Do you know much about that and the methodology of how that works or the mechanics of how that works?

Matt:   Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so basically within the juice of the pomegranate, it’s a very powerful antioxidant, so the juice has a lot of antioxidant components. Now remember with the juice that’s where we’ll get a bit of the sugar, that’s where you get most of the water.

So you’ll find within a juice that concentration of actives are much lower, which basically means you need a higher dose and that sort of stuff, which is lucky because you have a whole cup of it.

So with pomegranate juice, very powerful antioxidant, plus it contains a lot of the vitamin C, a lot of the bioflavonoids, and one of those other nutrients, lots of carotenoids and that sort of stuff as well, which is a big matrix of antioxidants. Then typically what happens is, you know how you get cholesterol in your arteries?

Jeff:     Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Matt:   And your arteries are also really oily, flexible membranes that are supposed to be pulsing, veins are dilating and constricting to maintain blood pressure and that sort of stuff? Antioxidants stop the cholesterol from becoming oxidized.

What happens there is when your cholesterol  gets oxidized it goes from this really smooth round bubble floating through your arteries to this higgledy-piggledy spiky looking thing, it almost looks like a prickle or a burr, you know?

Jeff:     Yeah.

Matt:   Your immune cells are kind of going, “What the hell’s that?” They’ll attack this oxidized cholesterol, and then they grab it, and they  try to take it away thinking it’s an infection. Cover themselves in calcium and that’s what creates a thing called a foam cell and that’s what a hardening of the artery is.

So whenever you use an antioxidant to protect cholesterol from becoming damaged you’re actually stopping the amount of plaque you form. Then you also use antioxidants to maintain the elasticity in the artery wall so your artery walls can respond to blood pressure and make sure your blood pressure stays in a healthy range and doesn’t go up.

Jeff:     Yeah, because I mean it’s obviously that plaque in the arteries not just makes … it restricts the size or the diameter of the pipe, so obviously it makes the pressure go up, but also where it’s really bad is when it can actually then make those arteries, as you say, go brittle and split and that’s when you’re looking at-

Matt:   If you look at hardening … if you look at blood pressure and hardening in the arteries  really simply, it’s, you’ve got one fluid-filled pump and one hose coming at one end and in the other end. What we’re finding here, if your pump is pushing too hard or if you’ve got too much fluid in your hoses the pressure within those hoses increase. So what happens if your pressure in your hoses increase? They harden. Look at you, you’re just a dirty bastard.

Jeff:     No, I’m not saying anything.

Matt:   No, I know but you sit there giving me that look as if you’re curious.

Jeff:     No, seriously we’re like 13-year-old school boys.

Matt:   I know, you’re just going shit eating grin on your face like, “Hehe, he’s talking about hardening.”

Jeff:     Okay. Brook cut that and make us look professional. Okay.

Matt:   No, don’t cut that. This is just a reality of the adults in the world.

Jeff:     Oh my gosh.

Matt:   No, basically if you’ve got too much pressure within your arteries, I can’t even hold my hands like this now. If you’ve got too much pressure within your arteries, the arteries are risking, going to pop.

Jeff:     You can’t make eye contact.

Matt:   No, I know I can’t look at you either because I know you’re thinking about my hardened arteries.

Jeff:     No, I’m not.

Matt:   Then basically what happens is, your body’s got to harden the arteries so the arteries don’t pop.

Jeff:     Shit. Okay. Yes, okay. Back to pomegranate.

Matt:   I was talking about pomegranate.

Jeff:     I know.

Matt:   What the bloody hell are you talking about?

Jeff:     No, no, no. I don’t want to-

Matt:   So what I’m saying is, with antioxidants they allow the arteries to be more elastic, allowing them to throb and dilate and that sort of stuff, safely-

Jeff:     Come on now.

Matt:   … without risk of it exploding and popping. Otherwise, if you have too much pressure within the arteries they have to harden up or they risk exploding and can’t hold the fluid in.

Jeff:     Right, which is not good?

Matt:   Yeah, so antioxidants are good for preventing all that. Let’s move away from the juice.

Jeff:     Let’s do that.

Matt:   Juice sucks. No. When you think about it of the pomegranate because it’s got the highest amount of water in the juice, that it’s got a lot of similar actives you’ll see across these things, but the juice is probably the weakest part.

Jeff:     Right, but the bioflavonoids in the juice though, I mean obviously that’s kind of cool.

Matt:   When you juice, I’ll tell you how to make the juice amazing though from pomegranate. They don’t do this when you buy commercial juice. So when you do commercial juice what they actually do is-

Jeff:     Yeah. There’s a couple of brands out there I can think of.

Matt:   … they squash the juice out, but don’t forget they want your juice to be juicy. All right?

Jeff:     Yeah.

Matt:   They want it to be thin, pomegranate colored and that sort of stuff. Now when you actually, you have a look at the pomegranate and you do that thing you did where you take the peel off and you shake out all the little balls-

Jeff:     Yeah, it’s clear always.

Matt:   If imagine, for those people that have never seen inside a pomegranate, it’s almost like corn kernels these little things, they come out like corn kernels, that’s full of juice. It’s got a thin layer around the outside full of juice. Then right in the middle of each one of those corn kernels is a bloody corn cob. It’s got like a little seed, a little weird, hard seed inside every one of them.

So what happens is, they get rid of that seed because if they crush the seed with the juice, the seed is full of oil and it’s full of fiber and makes it go thick, it makes it go cloudy and, it actually makes it go totally different taste, plus the seed has a lot more of those bitterness and that sort of stuff as well-

Jeff:     Tannins and that, yeah.

Matt:   … and the astringency. So they remove the seed from the little pods before they juice it. If you’re juicing pomegranate at home, make sure the seeds go through it because the seeds have got amazing stuff. I will talk about them in a …

I want to talk about seeds now, because what’s in the seed is a very unique thing. Now pomegranate is a very important commodity throughout the world at the moment because it’s one of the only plants that they found to have a high amount of this thing in it called punicic acid, which is an Omega 5 oil. So you can talk about Omega 3, Omega 6, pretty much that’s all people talk about, 3 and 6. So that we have too much Omega 6 because that’s comes from cereals and grains, not enough Omega 3 because we’re not eating grass fed, and that’s why we’re all dying. That’s the theory, but there’s also 5, 6, 7, 9, that sort of stuff.

Jeff:     Yeah 5 and 7 you don’t hear too much about.

Matt:   No. Omega 5, an Omega 5 oil is actually you know your Omega 3 oils they call them linolenic acid, that’s the precursor?

Jeff:     Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah.

Matt:   There are things in nature where they’ve got conjugated linoleic acid, which means they’ve got these Omega 3 oils that are tightly held together in a bond. They act differently, they don’t act like an Omega 3, but their Omega 3 is bound together, and that’s these thing they’ve nickname punicic acid, which is an Omega 5. So that’s what’s in pomegranate seed.

Jeff:     Yeah. It’s not really a compound isn’t it?

Matt:   Yeah, yeah. Well there’s no other plant that’s made in adequate supply for this thing to be viable. But when you have a look at punicic acid in the pomegranate seed itself it’s about 80% of the seed weight is punicic acid. So not only is it there, but it’s in a very high yield compared to other things. Guess what the other components are? Conjugated linoleic acid, so CLA

Jeff:     Yeah, CLA.

Matt:   Now with this seed oil this punicic acid’s a really crazy compound because they’re finding a lot of these people that used to talk about conjugated linoleic acid, so CLA from such things as sunflower, they realized that a lot of these things also had this CLnA in it. There’s a lot of research out there about CLA that they think might actually be attributed back to this punicic acid compound from pomegranate instead.

The point of my story is, CLA and CLnA, very powerful anti-inflammatories, in particular for the mucosa, but they also work on these things called PPAR receptors. PPAR receptors, they control which fuel moves around your body.

So they’ll basically determine, make sure you’re capable of burning sugar for fuel. They make sure you’re burning, driving fat for fuel, and switching between the two of them easily by PPAR receptors. A lot of things are in the gut and in the liver and telling your body what fuels are available. A lot of those things are regulated by your gut flora.

What’s really crazy, the seed oil in pomegranate as conjugate linolenic acid or I’ll just call it punicic acid, it runs through, it does all this crazy inflammation, switching off inflammation through the mucosa, looking after your microbiome, changing the amount of fatty acids that your microbiome makes, telling your body to burn more fat, preserve muscle, and that sort of stuff. As well as looking after the liver, soothing the liver, and it’s doing all of that as punicic acid.

Then what happens, it gets converted, after it does all its job as punicic acid, it then gets converted to CLA, and then it goes through and does all the jobs of CLA. The jobs of CLA are very similar, switching off inflammation, preventing visceral fat buildup, and that sort of stuff. The other thing that CLA is very famous for is stopping cortisol from preserving fat around your internal organs and breaking down muscle.

Jeff:     Yeah. Right.

Matt:   So the Omega 5 oil in the pomegranate seed is brilliant in itself where it goes through, does all this amazing stuff, and then goes through and converts to CLA. So if you have a look, no, this is not so much of product flog, but just to let you know that we make a product called … Well you know, you were here when we did it, AMP-V. So we make a product called AMP-V that’s got the pomegranate seed oil and the sunflower oil for the CLA.

So when you have a look at that product per two grams you’re getting about half a gram of CLnA and a gram of CLA, but then what happens is because the CLnA from the pomegranate converts to CLA, you get like this double whammy, which means you get almost equivalent to two grams of CLA per two mills of AMP-V, because you get this double whammy action. That just drives the fat burning process, tricks your body into thinking that fat’s the only available fuel source.

Jeff:     And there’s some other really cool research around CLA as well too, for all sorts of stuff.

Matt:   But really good from your mucosal inflammation. The funny is we’re finding with pomegranate, when we got through all of the different parts of it, all parts of it that one way or another excellent for any sort of mucous congestion across your mucous membranes. They take away swelling and that sort of stuff, all the way across, from sinuses all the way through to bum grapes.

Jeff:     Wow.

Matt:   Yeah.

Jeff:     Talking about doctrine of signatures.

Matt:   Yeah. I know the doctrine of signatures, which for those people out that don’t know what doctrine of signatures is, it’s like if you look at a plant, you can look at it and guess what it’s good for.

Jeff:     Like the [crosstalk 00:16:21].

Matt:   A pomegranate, it looks like what is giant bum grape.

Jeff:     It does.

Matt:   It looks like it’s full of little bum grapes.

Jeff:     Yeah, it’s also in chambers as well too, so it’s obviously very good for the heart.

Matt:   For the heart. Even each one of those little juice pods themselves is actually looks like red blood cell.

Jeff:     A red blood cell?

Matt:   Yeah.

Jeff:     And it’s funny isn’t it?

Matt:   Yeah.

Jeff:     I mean, again if you look at a carrot-

Matt:   Then the seeds, pull the seed out, it actually almost resembles a red blood cell, not the color, but-

Jeff:     The structure?

Matt:   … actually the discs.

Jeff:     Wow.

Matt:   That kind of concaved little discs-

Jeff:     There are.

Matt:   … like you’ve squeezed a bubble down.

Jeff:     Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Matt:   Yeah.

Jeff:     So I mean again, if you look at the … the classic one is the carrot. If you cut a carrot and you look at it, it looks very much like an eye.

Matt:   Yeah, it’s got a walnut for the brain.

Jeff:     Yeah, that’s it and the nuts.

Matt:   Yeah, and the zucchini.

Jeff:     This looks like a zucchini?

Matt:   Huh?

Jeff:     Strange.

Matt:   What?

Jeff:     Anyway.

Matt:   It’s the stripes. Doesn’t he also have stripes?

Jeff:     Racing stripes.

Matt:   And seeds in the middle.

Jeff:     Wow.

Matt:   And a flower off the end. Yeah. Anyway. Now, so seeds, are bloody good for all that sort of stuff. Omega 5, punicic acid, also known as conjugated linoleic acid, which you can all research and I’ll put up some cool pages on because there’s heaps of cool stuff about it.

Jeff:     All right.

Matt:   So when you have a look at the juice and the seed. The peel, okay the pomegranate peel. So when we talk about the peel … Yeah talking about the pericarp, so we’re talking about the peel, the rind and then all that white stuff that’s inside that holds all the little seed pods in place, and all the little juice, so that makes up 40% of the pomegranate.

Then the rest of it is actual juice and seed. Then the seed is probably about 30% of the rest. I mean seriously, there’s bugger all juice in a pomegranate. You’re not using it for the juice and if you’re throwing the rest away-

Jeff:     Yeah, missing it.

Matt:   … which is what most industry does, is you’re missing out on the good stuff. We use, I mentioned before we have the pomegranate seed oil in our AMP, but we’ve got a pomegranate peel powder in our T432 Plus, and in our GutRight.

Now what’s really interesting is when we put it in the T432 Plus, that was to make a fat burning product, because we went and researched what’s the best things for fat burning?

In that instance polyphenols from the peel and ellagic acids and these things actually showed a lot of improving insulin sensitivity, stimulating your metabolism, making you burn fuel faster, a lot of work through the liver.

Changing the way the liver helps you to burn fat. And so, that’s why I added the peel into the T432 just as a general insulin sensitizing agent, metabolism boosting sort of agent.

Then about five years or so later when we want to make a gut product, and in particular looking at a gut product to fix inflammatory disorders that can lead to cardiovascular disease and age-related disorders and obesity and that sort of stuff, the polyphenols from the pomegranate kept popping up again showing that their mechanism of action, the way they help your metabolism, and the way they help your liver, and the way they help your insulin sensitivity, and that is via the microbiome.

So what it basically shows is the pomegranate peel has these compounds in it, lots of compounds, ellagic acids, cAMP phenols and that sort of stuff. So we wanted the cAMP phenol for the thyroid and hormone conversion, and we wanted the other polyphenols for the insulin sensitizing. Then later on we found those same compounds fix the gut, and that’s really cool.

Jeff:     It is cool.

Matt:   We threw it in for the gut, because what they do in the gut is they can break up the biofilm that the resistant bugs and fungi in particular use to protect themselves. So firmicutes are famous for doing this. Firmicutes, don’t make your firmicutes fat and ugly. Fat, did I say fat?

Jeff:     You did.

Matt:   Yeah, fat and ugly. You know what I mean? It was just so we confirm firmicutes make you fat and ugly. Basically what happens is they’re things like think lactobacillus, clostridiums, E. Coli, staph, strep. Then on top of that we get things like candidas, overgrowth and fungi and yeast.

Pomegranate peel can destroy all those, and it changes the environment in your gut where you can’t make this biofilm and they can’t protect themselves from your natural defense mechanism.

So basically, throwing the pomegranate down kills off the bad bugs that make you fat, and they enhance their good bugs that speed up your metabolism, and it does that through a lot of these compounds. The cool thing is man, it just keep getting more and more cool-

Jeff:     I know.

Matt:   … because you see these ellagic acid compounds that’s in the peel, it’s also in the juice, in the seeds, and these ellagic acid, they actually go and feed your gut flora, and the gut flora converts it through to a thing called a postbiotic. So you know how we talked about prebiotics, which is sugar for bugs?

Jeff:     Yeah.

Matt:   Probiotics, which is bugs, symbiotics, you combine the two.

Jeff:     Yeah. Modbiotics.

Matt:   Yeah, modbotics modify the gut flora, postbiotics are the compounds that are made from the bugs, so when the bugs feed on something and convert it. Now I’ve talked about ellagic acid, which comes from things like ellagic tannins, they’re all found in pomegranates. That’s also the things that make such things as epigallocatechin gallate which is the EGC-

Jeff:     EGCG, yeah.

Matt:   EGCG from green tea. So a lot of these compounds in these plants that we talk about as antioxidant and that sort of stuff, they got to feed the gut flora, if you’ve got the right gut flora.

Then that gut flora converts it into a postbiotic. That postbiotic is what you absorb, and it does all these amazing things. It’s not actually the EGCG in green tea, it’s what the bug in your guts do to it. So it’s not actually the ellagic acid in the pomegranates, it’s what the bugs change it into.

Now, this is the coolest thing about pomegranate, as opposed to such things as green tea, especially if you’re using just EGCG, if you’re using the whole plant the pomegranate or a peel extract other parts of the peel would kill off the bad bugs that are getting in the way and increase the good bugs that are capable of converting their precursor ellagic acid through to postbiotic compounds that have the beneficial effects in the body.

So when you use the whole plant as opposed to just taking an antioxidant out of a plant, or taking a compound of the plant, it actually creates the right gut environment, so for you to get the actives and convert it into the thing your body needs. That’s the difference between natural medicine and pharmaceutical, or holistic medicine.

Jeff:     You took that words out of my mouth Matt. Recently you went and had some conversations with some really smart people at some universities recently and talking about some of the stuff that they’ve indexed. You’re really excited about well at least they have an index.

Matt:   Oh yeah.

Jeff:     As well as of what they could have but there’s a huge library of compounds and natural medicines and-

Matt:   30,000 plants. Fantastic.

Jeff:     You were sitting there like a kid in a candy shop going, “My gosh.” It’s funny because what you related to me is that these people, at first they’re like, “Okay we don’t know why the dean and the chancellor are so excited about what we’re doing, right?

Matt:   Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jeff:     Because they kind of go, “Oh right, you’re just some natural hippies.”

Matt:   Hippies, yeah.

Jeff:     “Natural company hippies.” Right?

Matt:   They had already worked out in their mind why our stuff would not work.

Jeff:     Yeah, right, and it does, extremely well. Then you are able to obviously shed some light Matt, and all of a sudden the conversation went round from having like a 10 minute conversation with you, to now, they’re going to miss their next appointment because obviously that what you just said was the missing link.

Is that a lot of companies, whether it be natural or pharmaceutical companies that try to extract things down into what? Artifacts, which is one single compound, but when you remove some of the other natural things that are found in there, like vitamins, we talk about that quite a lot as well too, the  ability of those things to work is greatly reduced and you’re missing out 90% of the effect.

Matt:   Yeah. No, I mean seriously … and I totally understand where the scientists are coming from too because they’re measuring, isolating things like polyphenols and flavonoids and falvons. They’re putting them in test tubes and showing that they have these amazing effects.

I’m talking like on systemic enzymes and that sort of stuff. They show these amazing things that they do in a test tube. Then what they do is, they go back and do a bit of literature research that says that they’re not bioavailable.

So then they go, “Well then they can’t possibly work.” So if they’re not getting inside the body effectively, like saturating the body, then how are they going to do these things we can do in a test tube?

We when we explained to them that they’re not bioavailable because you’re measuring the wrong stuff, that we ingest a particular flavonoid or polyphenol our digestive process, to our liver and our microbiome, convert it into something else, which does the work, which we struggle to measure, because it could, might happen in an hour in one person, 10 hours in another person, and not at all in the others.

Jeff:     I went and got a juice at a natural juice place the other day. They said, “Oh would you like to try tumeric something, something and black pepper?”

Matt:   They constantly do it. It’s harder to get that out.

Jeff:     They should be listening to the podcast. Can’t do it. Anyway. Yeah and this is a problem I think-

Matt:   No, we were in the paper the other day. You see it all the time. There’s this one paper that went through, it went and showed, this is the craziest thing, it was a review paper showing that these foods have all these amazing benefits.

That these amazing benefits from these foods have been traced back to these particular compounds. Then it finishes by saying, “And this is a most amazing thing we’ve ever discovered.” Then it went to say that these compounds are only 10% bioavailable so they said, “By the time we finish screwing with it and we make it a 100% bioavailable it’s going to be 10 times as effective.”

Jeff:     It’s just so dumb.

Matt:   No, no, you just showed us that this stuff works as it is, and then you’re going to go through and think you’re going to change it? Smarter than nature, it crazy man. But anyway, we’ll get there eventually. People will work out what’s happening.

So when we’re looking at the peel, full of antioxidants, got lots of polyphenols, but it also that’s where we get a lot of antimicrobial compounds. That’s where we get the stuff that kills off the … But think about it too, the reason why it’s in the peel and not in the juice is because it’s in the peel to protect the juice-

Jeff:     Yeah, from the bugs that come in and try to eat it.

Matt:   … from the bugs. Then when those seeds … the other place you find these compounds is in the outer layer of the seed because when the seed, the fruit goes onto the ground and dies and all the sugars, and all that sort of stuff nourish the area, the bugs will come in and try to eat the seed. So then on the outside of the seed it has some as well.

So that’s what’s in the peel. With the peel what you can actually do, so I don’t know if you thought of it, the peel of a pomegranate, by the time your pomegranate’s ripe that peel man, it’s like wood. It’s hard as a rock.

So basically what you do is, you just dry it out and you can powder it down. Then you can add those powders into your food. So alternatively you can boil the buggery out of your peel, which is what we call a herbal decoction.

Typically, you get all your peels and all your pulps and all that sort of crap. You put it into a saucepan that’s not aluminum or something, usually we tell people to use urban ware, glass and that sort of stuff. You boil it down till 30% of the water’s gone. Then you just collect that. That’s called a decoction. Usually takes about 20 minutes to boil off 30% of the water and concentrate the extracts. Then you can add that into your foods.

Jeff:     Yeah. Cool. Is that how you’d make a vinegar or something like that Matt or …

Matt:   Vinegar’s a process of just fermentation, so you basically put all, the whole pulp, chop up the whole thing and get it all in there to ferment-

Jeff:     Let it ferment.

Matt:   … and that sort of stuff, and create a vinegar that way. I’ll tell you a little bit about pomegranate vinegar in a sec. It’s pretty good man.

Jeff:     Cool.

Matt:   Some amazing research on.

Jeff:     You don’t see much of it. I did find some a while ago. I think a couple of years ago you used get some.

Matt:   Yeah, but you still have to be careful man.

Jeff:     Right.

Matt:   Because a lot of pomegranate vinegars are apple cider vinegar with pomegranate juice.

Jeff:     Oh really?

Matt:   No, we’re not. We’re talking about making a vinegar out of pomegranate where the mother, the mother tincture …

Jeff:     Yeah, that’s that pearl or whatever you call it.

Matt:   Yeah the dirty stuff. So if you’ve got crusty bits through your apple cider vinegar, you know the cloudy goo, that’s the stuff off the outside of the barrel, but that’s where you get most of your polyphenols.

Jeff:     Well and this is what they say, I think Bragg’s  with their apple, they say, “With-

Matt:   You’ve got to have the mother.

Jeff:     … mother-of-pearl” or whatever.

Matt:   Oh but, I even got some papers that I can share with people.

Jeff:     Bragg’s Aminos makes good products by the way.

Matt:   Yeah, I like Bragg’s. I love their spray. I spray it on my food and then recook it. Hey, what was I going to show?

Jeff:     It was vinegar.

Matt:   Yeah, man I got a cool paper I’ll share you guys with that actually shows … I can’t find any [crosstalk 00:28:02].

Jeff:     “I’ll share you guys with.”

Matt:   I’ll share with you fellows.

Jeff:     And felleses.

Matt:   Felleses, girls as well. Basically here it showed they compared the apple cider vinegar to pomegranate vinegar and the mother in the pomegranate vinegar had significantly higher antioxidant capacity, totally more phenolic substances and that compared to their apple cider vinegar.

Jeff:     Cool.

Matt:   Hey, but I tell you something while we’re talking about the vinegar, so what happens with pomegranate vinegar, you basically end up with a lot of acetic acid, you end up with the acetic acid bacterias that live in there, and you end up with this mother tincture that’s concentrated forms of all the polyphenols that’s in the peels, in the seeds, in fruit pulp and everything.

Jeff:     Nice.

Matt:   It’s amazing stuff, but what’s really cool, you know how I told you we’ve got pomegranate seed oil in the AMP-V?

Jeff:     Yeah.

Matt:   And the pomegranate peel in the-

Jeff:     GutRight?

Matt:   … GutRight and the T432.

Jeff:     T432.

Matt:   So if you’re doing AMP-V and T432 to stimulate your metabolism, there’s one thing you can actually to do to make it better, and that’s actually find pomegranate vinegar and have that, but for your meals or that sort of stuff as well.

Because these studies have actually shown that if you combine the polyphenols from pomegranate peel with the pomegranate seed oil, with the acetic acid from the pomegranate vinegar, it actually works as a better fat burner.

Jeff:     Wow.

Matt:   The actual acetic acid drives a kreb cycle’s ability to drive the fat through. What’s really cool about this, this is the big loop you got to keep making these connections because everything we do in a mind map.

So now think about this, the bioflavonoids, sorry, the polyphenols and everything, all the poison, the modbiotic compounds in the pomegranate peel creates a gut microbiome that create more acetic acid in response to eating.

So what’s really cool about pomegranate will create a microbiomenial gut that generates more acetic acid as a byproduct, that’s the short-chain fatty acid made by the good healthy bugs that will stimulate a faster metabolism.

So it actually encourages the gut flora that makes more acetic acid in response to eating normal food, that actually then links with the polyphenols and the Omega 5s to drive PPAR  receptors for stimulating your metabolism and that is further enhanced by the acetic acid.

So you get the full picture. When you start using this whole plan and you’re actually going to change your microbiome basically creating pomegranate vinegar in your gut.

Jeff:     That’s awesome.

Matt:   That’s the same thing. Alternatively, because you know it’s really funny, you know AMP-V?

Jeff:     Yeah.

Matt:   Just quiet … No, no, not just quiet. Just quietly

Jeff:     Just quiet, I know what you mean. Don’t tell anyone. We’re trust you guys. We trust you guys.

Matt:   It actually stands for a Mediterranean Paradox, vinaigrette. So I know it’s AMPK is what we drive at and AMP-V was just another way of not saying AMPK and that sort of stuff, but what I originally … AMP come from a Mediterranean Paradox because my original research for the AMP-V, was working on the Mediterranean Paradox and what do these guys do to stimulate their metabolism, and basically a lot of the stuff going back to vinaigrettes.

I showed a combination of oils and vinegars would do it but I could not get the vinegar to work with the AMP it just created all sorts of problems with stability and all that sort of stuff.

Jeff:     Yeah, I was going to say, why don’t we just add it in?. You can’t

Matt:   Yeah, you could just can work in that oil thing, but for anyone out there that wants to add in some acetic acid into their AMP-V as pre-workout to get a bit of a enhanced activity, or get your guts right, and then it’ll sort itself out, make its own acetates and that. But that’s kind of cool.

Jeff:     Wow, very cool.

Matt:   Yes, so throw in pomegranate vinegar, but you can imagine now if you have salads and that sort of stuff where you could find some pomegranate vinegar, you can actually buy pomegranate seed oil as well, but if you did pomegranate vinegar, pomegranate seed oil and then get your pomegranate, actual little seeds pods, the fruity, juicy pod, what the hell do we call those things? I keep forgetting.

Jeff:     I call them pods.

Matt:   Yeah, those little juicy pod stuff, that’s what you put all through your salads. You just eat that constantly, it’s bloody good for you. Don’t so it just a shot of apple cider vinegar if you can find pomegranate vinegar. It’s really good. The studies are on actual pomegranate vinegar too, they’re excellent. So now we talked about the juice, the vinegar, the seed, the seed oil, the peel.

Jeff:     Leaves and flowers.

Matt:   So you can also use leaves and flowers. So like I said the pomegranate tree, it’s drought hardy, it’s resistant to most things, it’s got lush … It’s a very productive tree when it comes to how much leaves it can produce. Then the flowers as well.

I think it about 10:1 the amount of flowers we produce compared to how much fruit comes off our tree. To be perfectly honest man, they’re buggers to grow because I mean they’re tough as nails, the leaves and the flowers, what happens is the fruit starts … you get a wrong bit of rain on the wrong day and all your fruit pops.

So like if you were sitting there thinking, “Oh I’ve got this whole orchard going just for sucking some juice out of this thing a couple of times.” You’re kidding yourself man because you’ve got so much awesome leaves and flowers.

So the leaves, you can just harvest the leaves and you can just let them sit and dry. When you dry things just don’t put them in direct sunlight. So you’re better off in a shady area with good ventilation, that way you don’t cook the stuff, you just let it dry naturally, that’s how usually you preserve its color and that sort of stuff.

Jeff:     Right.

Matt:   So both the leaves and flowers, you can harvest them, you can let them sit out to dry for a couple of days. Then you can either just go through and add those leaves like the same as you’re making a cup of tea. A teaspoon of leaves to a cup of water. Just let’s sit there for 15 minutes and drink it.

The leaves and the flowers, the flowers are a little bit more concentrated than the leaves, but what they both do is they dry out your mucous membranes. So for things like acute diarrhea, for acute asthma and lung problems, things where you’ve got a lot of wet fluid congestion all across your mucous membranes, anything from sinus.

But like I said, they do acute diarrhea, acute lung, so just imagine fluidy, lots of fluid, if you want something astringent that’s going to dry out those mucous membranes and actually take away some of that swelling and congestion, they’re the things that do it. So the leaves definitely very powerful anti-inflammatory. The leaves are excellent. They’ve got a lot of cool inflammatory things.

Again, a lot of it revolves around the mucosa. For example, lipopolysaccharide is the most inflammatory thing known to man and it’s a bacterial wall cell fragment. So what happens, a lot of studies with the pomegranate leaves have shown that it can switch off the inflammation induced by lipopolysaccharides, which are specific for people who’ve got dysbiosis, overgrowth for bacteria, or for people that are going through a killing spree using the GutRight or something, getting Herxheimer reactions. This reduces the amount of inflammation that you’re going get in response to infections, dysbiosis, irritable bowel syndrome, all that sort of stuff.

So those people that alternate constipation, diarrhea and that sort of stuff in the bowels, either the peel will do it, but the flowers are a little bit more concentrated on drying that membrane out.

Jeff:     Cool.

Matt:   Then because of that astringency and the drying and then they’re famous for like things like swollen tonsillitis, hemorrhoids and that sort of stuff. They’ll dry out the swollen congested, membrane sort of thing. Really powerful for it, and you can make them at home. It’s cheap and easy.

Then seriously, you can buy a pomegranate tree that just go down there anywhere. They live anywhere. They’re tough as nails man. Then you can harvest all of these things as you go.

Jeff:     Very cool.

Matt:   I like pomegranate.

Jeff:     So is there any other studies that you want to cite Matt or we sort feel like you’ve covered [crosstalk 00:35:26]?

Matt:   What I’ll do is, I’ll give them a reading list. Yeah, we’ll show some of the papers because I’ve printed off a couple of papers just to show us a little bit differences between the parts of it.

But it’s very similar for the leaves, the flowers, the peel. They’re all very powerful anti-inflammatories, very powerful polyphenols. They all do mucous membranes, they also do the gut. So you just have to wait for it to fruit. You can use the leaves and flowers in the meantime.

Jeff:     So yeah if you have got hardening in the arteries or if it’s something that you’re concerned about from your family history, something that you might be able to proactively do, again, check with your healthcare practitioner to make sure if you are on medication specifically that there’s no contra-indications there, but I think it’s a fantastic fruit to use.

I mean as Matt said, get the pomegranate, take some of the pulp as well as the juice, as well as the seed, and put that through a cold press juicer if you want to, and sort of crush all that up with some of the pulp. Make sure you eat the pulp as well too, you put some of that back in, because I mean otherwise you’re missing so much.

Matt:   Yeah. Just that outside peel that’s rock hard, but remember, that’s where the color is.

Jeff:     It is. Well you can put a small amount of that Matt. I mean it’s very astringent and very bitter.

Matt:   Yeah, just see how you go, but otherwise you can powder that up. So what you can do is, is you can scrape the soft white pulp with the seed pod juicy things, juice all that. Then the outside red, hard as a rock stuff, that’s full of all of the carotenoids and everything, you can then go and dry that out and powder it all up, add it in with your leaves and your flowers and put a teaspoon of that into your smoothies or whatever.

Jeff:     If you don’t feel like that you can throw the GutRight in, because the GutRight’s already [crosstalk 00:36:56].

Matt:   The GutRight’s got it anyway, and T432 as well.

Jeff:     And T432’s got it as well. Yeah. I love pomegranate Matt, it’s one of those things. So we’ll have to put up that link on how to peel a pomegranate because like again it’s so helpful and wasted a lot less.

Matt:   And buy some pomegranate vinegar

Jeff:     I was going to say, find some pomegranate vinegar.

Matt:   I can find a link for that too. But I love that stuff. Hey, it’s amazing.

Jeff:     Yeah. Yeah, you got me onto it a couple of years ago, so I think Tony uses it on a lot of vinaigrettes and salads and stuff like that. So all right cool. Well pomegranate, definitely add that into your repertoire for your fruit. You’re going to get some great pathene out of it.

Matt:   Yeah, bloody-o.

Jeff:     Matt. We’ve got some FAQ to do.

Matt:   We sure do. Where are they?

Jeff:     I don’t know.

Matt:   There we go.

Jeff:     Thank you very much.

Matt:   There’s one I prepared earlier.

Jeff:     All righty. Okay. This one’s from Wes. Hi Wes. “Hi guys. Recently started listening to your podcast. I really like everything and enjoy the science behind it all. I have to admit it does leave me a bit confused at times. I really think that your products would help me out, but I’m not really sure where to start. I’ll make this as brief as possible.

I’m a 36-year-old male. I live in Montana. Three years ago I suffered a possible bulged disc. Lost feeling in my leg from the knee down. I overcame this through physical therapy, and swimming really helped.

Last year I had several treatments of our Prolozone.” Matt, “therapy” do you know what that is? “in the lower back and recovered almost all feeling in my back and in my leg that I lost.

I’ll just mentioned again if people are looking for it, it’s called Prolozone, P-R-O-L-O zone therapy, my local naturopath Jerry, administered. It wasn’t too long after I had the severe lower back pain, possible bulged disc that no MRIs or doctor refuses to do one, saying that it was a bad test as most people have bulged discs with no symptoms despite the fact I have good insurance.”

It sounds a little bit dodgy there. “I partially tore my left hamstring. Ever since I’ve had the possible bulged disc and lost feeling in my left leg and I’ve really had bad muscle cramps, particularly in my hamstrings. I’ve had muscle cramp issues my whole life and every doctor just told me to eat more bananas, and it is not known how to treat or what causes muscular cramps.”

Matt:   What?

Jeff:     Oh my gosh, come on. “I tore the hamstring attempting to learn rugby and join a team, and in practice my hamstring cramped mid-stride and tore when I ripped it out of the cramp.  Fast-forward another year later and I’m still lifting and doing my best to up my squats. All this were improving when I began feeling tired and sluggish. I noticed yellowing in the eyes and my pee was brownish.

Went in for blood tests and had elevated liver enzymes, high iron and red blood cell or haematocrit was at 55. The doctors asked me about steroid use, which I haven’t ever taken. I did several blood tests and they were all shown to have high iron, high red blood cells, possible autoimmune hepatitis live, although I repeatedly tested negative for all hepatitis viruses.

Went to a specialist and had an ultrasound done. The ultrasound came back all good, all normal, slightly inflamed, or swollen spleen, but with no answers. The hospital botched one blood test so I went for another one and it came back normal. They wanted to do a liver biopsy and I refused. They did another blood test and it came back normal.

During this time I was really sensitive to smells and I couldn’t stand my wife’s candles. They did think maybe hemochromatosis, but later blood tests came back normal. I gave  blood at the local blood drive and felt much better after that.”

It definitely does sound like hemochromatosis. “I’m going for another donation soon as my symptoms seem to be reappearing. Also, my energy levels are tapering off. Recently I started boxing. I love the sport, spar as often and workout as much as possible.

My left shoulder has started hurting, cracking and popping, and the pain goes down through my left triceps into my left pec. It seems to be worse at times when I’m not, and not as bad at other times. I got my testosterone checked last year, it was around 550 for total and I think around our six for free. I can’t remember what the down was.

I feel like it low but nothing insurance would help with so I started taking Myomin and ashwagandha, eldoper, zinc and boren. I now only take ashwagandha, two 450 milligram capsules twice a day with 2.5 …”

How do you pronounce that mate?

Matt:   Withanolides.

Jeff:     “Withanolides and now foods. I love working out. I would really like to start hitting the weights again with my new found boxing routine would love to compete. I want to work out keep working out, working out without getting hurt, or something’s happening to me every time I start to gain ground.

I work for the railroad as an engineer and work around the clock. I do try to get as much sleep as best I can, but sometimes my sleep suffers for my work and my family life. I feel like you guys can help put me on the right path from listening to your podcast. Please let me know how to keep training to the best of my ability, and injury and disease free.

Thank you for your time. I’ve been up for almost 24 hours now writing this, so hopefully it makes sense. Love the podcast. Please, hope to hear back from you soon. I’d really like to know how to put myself in order. Thanks again, Wes from Montana, USA.”

Interesting a good friend of mine Dan, who used to work for me at my retail store went over on and now commentating for rugby and he’s doing all sort development for USA rugby.

Matt:   Oh wow.

Jeff:     He would say rugby is actually going really, really well. So it’s a shame Wes that you’re not continuing with the rugby, because I think the Eagles need some more support in that area.

Matt, it does sound a lot like hemochromatosis doesn’t it? What’s going on?

Matt:   Well that’s because it’s high iron.

Jeff:     Right.

Matt:   So you can get high iron from a lot of things like eating too much iron. It’s also common with viruses and things like that, or it’s common with things with increased red blood cell destruction, because what happens is you break down the red blood cells and your body tries to recycle the iron.

Jeff:     Is that like a sickle cell anemia type thing?

Matt:   Yeah, that sort of things. Anything weird. It can also be simpler things too just like stress and inflammation. Where you get too much oxidative stress, your red blood cells lose their elasticity and the body goes, “Right break them down.” Then it recycles the iron by dumping the iron in the liver. Then it rusts and that can make you frustrated and cranky, and hot and bothered, and cause raised liver enzymes.

The other thing happens when you raise liver enzymes and inflammation you get a thing called acute phase response. I don’t really know which one come first. I can show you how to make yourself feel better, but what I’m going to say is, you get this thing in your liver called acute phase response when you’re under stress, when you’ve got inflammation and when you’ve got pain.

Because it doesn’t know if this pain, this constant pain in your leg because someone’s bitten your leg off. So your body, your lover then goes and makes your blood go really sticky. So normally red blood cells have got positive charges on the outsides so they keep each other moving, the never pull up.

Jeff:     Yeah, sort of repel, right?

Matt:   Yeah. Yeah. If you’ve been bitten and you’re  bleeding you don’t really want that.

Jeff:     No, you want [crosstalk 00:44:00].

Matt:   So what happens is, your liver takes those positive charges off, so then it stops repelling itself and it just starts clumping up. So if it hits an area where they’ve got oxidative stress, or injury, or thrombin, it can quickly come up and create a clot, that’s the whole acute phase response.

Jeff:     Yeah, it stops you from bleeding to death.

Matt:   The problem with that is, is that it makes all your blood clumpy and gluggy. You don’t get much oxygen out of that blood, you get cramps.

Jeff:     Yeah. Right.

Matt:   Cramps come from when your muscles aren’t getting adequate fuel is one cause. So oxygen, lack of oxygen to the null. So some people get cramps from anemia, in this case not anemia. It’s got too much iron if anything, but you can get the acute phase response by your liver that makes your blood go sticky.

Then what happens is the only way your muscles you can get that blood in is by cramping. And so, you can get poor circulation is a major cause of cramps and dehydration and that sort of stuff. They build up this metabolic waste that screws around with your electrolytes.

Then your electrolytes go out of whack, which is your calcium, magnesium, sodium, potassium, not just potassium from bananas, but calcium, magnesium, sodium, potassium need to be held in the right ratios to actually control neuro-muscular junctions. But the big problem is sticky blood, by the sounds of things, because that’s where you get the cramps. That will be induced by the liver.

Jeff:     Right.

Matt:   So if we take away that acute phase response by the liver and allow the blood to flow, thin that blood out, allow the blood to actually get into the cells and that sort of stuff, especially the cells where you’ve got a pinched nerve.

See the problem is, you get this disc bulge, the nerve that’s running down the leg, down the sciatic nerve for example, that goes down the gall bladder channel, which is interesting because in traditional Chinese medicine you’ll get hamstring cramps if your gall bladder’s congested because of sticky blood in the liver and everything.

Jeff:     Yeah, right. There you go. [crosstalk 00:45:37].

Matt:   So it all follows, just links in. So basically if you get sticky blood you get shitty blood flow down your leg. Your muscles will cramp. You build up acid, but that also tricks your body into thinking, “Shit, something’s attacked his leg. All this pain and all that stuff coming down his leg. Could be an injury, let’s make his blood go sticky.”

Then you go round and round in circles and the sticky blood goes back to the liver. The liver goes, “Oh look at all this oxidized shitty sticky blood, let’s break it down, build new fresh ones. Hold the iron here in the liver while we do that.” Then you get these raised things. So you get these big weird, vicious cycles. So to fix the disc bulge take collagen, use Noway. To fix your cramps use Prototype 8. So this is a weird thing.

Jeff:     Wow.

Matt:   If you use Prototype 8 like a moisturizer twice daily after the shower.

Jeff:     Where?

Matt:   Down your legs, lower back. You’ll end up with quite a defined peach. Do it all over the booty. Done the gluts and hamstrings, and especially down to the calves. Run it down the outside of the leg because that’s where the nerve’s going to be pinched and the blood supply is going to be shut down. You could probably just put it on the outside of your feet and you’ll probably fix your hamstrings cramps by getting the blood flow down your legs.

Jeff:     Yeah. Right.

Matt:   But I’d butter up Prototype 8 twice, it’s good anabolic product that’s going to help muscle growth, improve definition. Like I said, you’re going to have a fantastic peach, you look great in heels after a while.

Jeff:     You have to suck through the fat under into the mitochondria to burn for energy so a lot of guys and girls really use it on that area, but guys as well too, especially-

Matt:   That’ll do it.

Jeff:     … on legs as well, great for the hamstrings, isn’t it?

Matt:   So the other thing I get you to do is ZMST, two capsules before each meal. The reason why, is I want the zinc to come through, bind to the iron in your meals and stop the amount of iron overload in your body because that’d ease oxidative stress, you’ve got oxidized iron, which is rust in through your liver. It makes you shitty, you know? So ZMST, two capsules before each meal to reduce the iron. The Noway and the Prototype 8, and the other thing, what?

Jeff:     Of course, Multi Food.

Matt:   Well everyone needs Multi Food, but yeah. I mean that’s pretty much it. The only other thing you could do if you wanted to, we need to do something to protect that liver, and that’d be the Cort RX.

Jeff:     Might as well so it to be safe. Better to be safe than sorry.

Matt:   Yeah. If you protect … Hey man, I’ll tell you something cool, that acute phase response I was telling you, it takes the positive charges off the outside of the cells. Do you know what puts it back on? Magnesium.

Jeff:     Yeah, right.

Matt:   If you load up your red blood cells, inside your red blood cells with magnesium it reboots the polarity and actually creates a positive charge back on the ends of the cells. That’s how you fix the … it’s called Grullo. Man it looks really cool. Go on Google and type in Grullo. I don’t know how to spell it, so just try a couple of ways. One of them will come up with live blood analysis that looks like just coins.

Instead of your red blood cells being floating around like single red blood cells, you see these just a whole heap of them just pile up together, clump up together and you get nothing out of that. You get cramp because you can’t that sticky blood into your muscle.

Jeff:     Yeah. Right.

Matt:   Yeah. Cool, huh?

Jeff:     Yeah, it’s cool.

Matt:   Nice one Wes. Great question.

Jeff:     Thanks Wes. All right. No worries. Got another one here from Kieran.

Matt:   G’day Karen.

Jeff:     No, no. Kieran.

Matt:   What?

Jeff:     Kieran.

Matt:   Kieran. What? Yeah, just read it.

Jeff:     “Background information. Since August 2017 I visited the GP with signs of weight loss, muscle soreness, weakness, degeneration, a rash on my limbs, fatigue, lethargy, night sweats, nausea, headaches, sun sensitivity and a lack of appetite.

Initial blood results and skin biopsies pointed to an autoimmune disease and/or Barmah Forest virus, but the GP was unable to provide a formal diagnosis and I was referred to a specialist.

In November 2017 I was able to visit an immunologist. Additional blood tests came back positive for speckled ANA, IgM-positive, but did not convert to IgG, positive Ro60, positive Ro52 and positive coo-antibodies.”

Man, I hope that makes sense to you?

Matt:   Yeah.

Jeff:     “There was also a slight elevation in CRP levels and the CK came back normal. I was then referred to a rheumatologist in January 2018 for further investigation into possibility of autoimmune disease. Based on the above information and blood results the rheumatologist has prescribed hydroxychloroquine, which is an anti-malarial drug. One tablet twice a day for myositis.

There’s also further investigation being carried out for lupus SLE. For pain relief, Naproxen 250 milligrams is being taken with no more than 1000 milligrams per day. Since the initial flair up I have lost approximately eight kilos of weight, from 70 kilos down to 62, with occasional variances in weight.The lowest I’ve been is 61, however have returned to 62 and a half kilos.

Despite the change in appetite I’m still eating healthily, however there has been some changes in food. I can no longer tolerate the smell or taste of red meat, therefore I’ve adapted to more of a pisco/pollo diet, which obviously means fish and chicken, or anti-inflammatory style diet.

The intake of food is approximately 1000 to 1200 calories per day, with some days being as low as 800, and that’s just an estimate. Being lethargic has affected my levels of concentration and my mental state, which is also caused absenteeism with my employer.

Self-confidence has been issue due to the rash marks and lesions on the limb which have unfortunately been itchy with many now turning into scars. If I can find out more natural alternatives to managing the disease to prevent flair ups it would fantastic. The anti-malarial drug is unpleasant and that’s being polite, with some mild symptoms already appearing,I really appreciate your help. Thank you. Kieran.”

Okay, Matt what do you think?

Matt:   Well, yeah, it definitely sounds autoimmunity. A lot of those positive were different autoimmune testing that you were confused about there. So yeah, so something weird going on with that immune system, and with that rash, it depends on the type of rash, but lupus will form these weird little rashes all over your body.

Typically, it’s categorized as well with a thing called a butterfly rash, which goes across your nose and across that T-zone, and that sort of stuff, but seriously the fatigue, the lethargy and the night sweats, nausea, sun sensitivity is another little sign of other weird lupus or misconnective tissue disorders and that sort of stuff.

But anyway, now some features that you need to understand regardless of what form of autoimmunity or what form of rheumatism you may be suffering from, what usually precedes all autoimmunity is a certain amount of adrenal exhaustion. Where your adrenal gland loses its ability to not only control your stress, but also to be able to switch off your immune system from attacking you.

So the immune system typically gets challenged by either a toxin or a virus, or something like that, fires up to kill those things, starts getting memories for all sorts of tissues. Your adrenal gland then is supposed to be releasing hormones to say, “Back off.” If that’s not capable of happening then you create these immune complexes and then you’re stuck in an autoimmune state.

So if we look at that. We need to look at the adrenal glands, which is kind of cool because we use a product like Cort RX for that. Now Cort RX is also a very powerful anti-inflammatory, also very good at controlling autoimmunity and stopping exaggerated immune reactions. So we use the Cort RX there and I’m probably inclined to do one capsule, three times daily to take that burden off the body and take away some of that inflammation and that sort of stuff.

Then what? Normal challenge occurs via the gut somewhere, so you either get a toxic exposure or a bacterial, or a viral, or a parasite, or something stimulates an immune challenge via your gut. The immune system then fires up to kill that up. Gets confused. Starts attacking your skin because that’s where the bugs are found.

So what we need to do is, is we need to support the adrenals and make sure they’re capable of controlling your immune system. We need to use something like GutRight to take away the immune challenges from that gut membrane. That means the immune system doesn’t have to work as hard because it’s getting less challenges.

Then lastly the adrenal gland will get tougher and start to get better at stopping it from reacting when it does get a challenge. So we do the GutRight. We do the Cort RX. Then what else you want to do is outside of ATP stuff, look at a higher dose of vitamin D. We put Multi Food in anyway because everyone needs to be on Multi Food. Otherwise, if you look for vitamin D 5000 international units.

Jeff:     Because, I know there was a-

Matt:   D2 or D3?

Jeff:     That’s r6ight.

Matt:   It’s a bit weird.

Jeff:     Because I think you were saying that D2, the initial thought or the initial research was saying that D2 wasn’t as good as D3 or the other way around, but you’ve found that, that’s actually not true.

Matt:   Well this is the challenge. Yeah, so basically D2 is not as good as D3.

Jeff:     Right.

Matt:   However, D3 is so unstable and unpredictable that if you’re going to supplement, you got to supplement D2-

Jeff:     D2.

Matt:   Because, the D2 will convert to D3. There are D3 supplements available but the raw material has to be stored under eight degrees celsius, it’s got to have no exposure to air. It only lasts a few months and then you can go put it into a tablet and all of a sudden those rules don’t apply.

Jeff:     I can’t remember how much you said, but I might have been say D2 maybe 70 or 80% as good as D3, but then when you look at it in a practical sense, D2 is far superior because it’s actually [crosstalk 00:55:06].

Matt:   Yeah, because it’s actually going to be active, it’s going to be stable. Otherwise, you’re making D3 within your body from something like sunlight and that sort of stuff was the other point as you get different forms and it can go through and convert. So it’s not that big a deal just get what you can, so vitamin D2.

Jeff:     How much? How many milligrams?

Matt:   5000 international units.

Jeff:     Per day?

Matt:   Yeah.

Jeff:     Yeah. In divided dose or one dose?

Matt:   Ah it just depends what your bottle is. It depends what you can get. The doctors do like 50,000 once a week and that sort of stuff.

Jeff:     Because it’s [crosstalk 00:55:34] or something?

Matt:   … it’s quite stable you can just load up. Yeah, I’m not sure.

Jeff:     Wow.

Matt:   Usually it’s sublingual, sort of thing. Do vitamin E at 1500 international units, that’s one thousand five hundred, both of those suppress the immune system hyporeactivity. Yeah, lots of tumeric and that sort of stuff in your diet.

Jeff:     The Cort’s in there as well too, but yeah get some more?

Matt:   Yeah. Yeah. Cort and GutRight and Multi Food, they’re the main things.

Jeff:     Done.

Matt:   Just keep us in the loop with the testing as it changes. Find out what these skin biopsies and that are finding. Barmah Forest virus, the way I treat Barham Forest virus if it does come back to be one of those weird arse mosquito borne viruses, raise your mushroom.

Jeff:     Right.

Matt:   So you’re getting equivalent to six grams a day of Ganoderma mushrooms. Yeah.

Jeff:     Okay. This one’s from Chris. “Hiya, after speaking with the ATP science guys at the Arnolds I was asked a question to be discussed at the podcast. My question is, I’m a competitive sprinter so to improve my performance on meet days I would take Infrared. However, I quickly came to realize that it was actually giving me cramps during my race. My calves would cramp up and when I don’t use it during trainings and some modcomps to test my hypothesis that did in fact give me muscular cramps, so it was that that was giving me cramps.”

So obviously he didn’t when he wasn’t using it.

“I would actually run better. I was just wondering, why is this the case? Maybe not enough electrolytes or sodium? How do I prevent this? Kind regards. Chris.”

Matt:   Yeah great question. Time to put it in the podcast because a couple of people have this same thing. Some people need more sodium.

Jeff:     Right.

Matt:   We’ve had feedback. I’m positive it’s Chris that’s already given us feedback to say that he added in the sodium citrate capsules and it corrected the problem. So basically some people need more sodium. A lot of people avoid sodium in their diet they don’t eat salt.

Jeff:     Well they’re told that.

Matt:   Yeah, they’re told it’s evil.

Jeff:     Do you remember the salt podcast that we were talking about this?

Matt:   Yeah. Yeah.

Jeff:     It really put it out of context. People are so afraid of salt for hardening of the arteries, and it’s sugar that you need to be worried about, not bloody salt.

Matt:   Yeah, so a lot of people avoid salt to be healthy and that’s the stuff and they’re not replacing it. We actually in some instances need salt pills. So you can go into the chemist and get salt pills for cramping and take that with your Infrared and it works.

Jeff:     Do you remember was it … Who’s the really good tennis player we had, a really nice guy? He’s retired a few years back, with the white tuft on his hair? Come on, what’s his name? He was world number one for a very, very short period of time.

Matt:   Yeah. I don’t know.

Jeff:     Come on. Not Leighton Hewitt, the other guy, the older guy? Anyway, he had the same problem. When he was playing tennis he used to cramp up. You know, the bonds guy, he was always …

Matt:   Oh yeah, Pat Rafter.

Jeff:     Pat Rafter.

Matt:   Did you say he was here?

Jeff:     In Australia.

Matt:   Oh, I thought you meant visited us. I’m sitting here going, “I’ve no fucking idea what he’s talking about.”

Jeff:     No.

Matt:   “But I’ll play along with it.”

Jeff:     Yeah. Pat Rafter. He had a horrible period in his career where effectively he was losing games. I remember in the Australian Open one year it was really hot and he kept on cramping so badly, I can’t remember if he had to forfeit the match or something, but it definitely impeded his performance. Some people are just genetically predisposed Matt to that.

Matt:   But the main cause of sodium deficiency is not that, it’s over-drinking water. So the other thing that people say, “Oh man I’ve got to force down three to six liters of water every day.” And so, they’re sweating out. They’re losing all this sort of stuff, and this bloke was a good, healthy bloke, from memory, with a conversation that was like, “Man do you eat salt?” “No. No.” And you just can’t get enough salt. So the salt pills fix it. So the other thing-

Jeff:     So avoiding sodium and drinking too much water.

Matt:   Yeah, the other common cause for this can be, especially people use a product like Infrared longterm, so beta-alanine. So you know beta-alanine. Beta-alanine that makes you prickle and that sort of stuff in the pre-workouts. There’s three grams of beta-alanine in Infrared, which is a big dose.

Now, beta-alanine is known as a taurine transport inhibitor. What that basically means, is if you take beta-alanine regularly. So if you take Infrared daily with a big dose of beta-alanine and you’re taking other beta-alanine supplements, and if your diet doesn’t have enough taurine in it then you can actually create a taurine deficiency by overdosing on beta-alanine.

Jeff:     Which is where ZMST is perfect to take.

Matt:   ZMST contains the taurine because what taurine does is, so magnesium is supposed to be fixing these cramps. There’s mega doses of magnesium in Infrared, you can’t take any more.

Jeff:     And there’s good amounts of sodium as well.

Matt:   Yeah, but not enough for those people that burn it through … Sodium’s a tricky one because some people just need more than others, and sodium is one of those ones that will be absorbed in hot water and fluid retention if you have more than you need.

Jeff:     Right.

Matt:   So it’s a bit of a tricky one. It’s always been the challenge, yeah even when I made magnesium approach for other companies, is how to balance out the sodium.

Jeff:     Well they left sodium out completely, Matt.

Matt:   Yeah, I know because they’re still thinking it’s bad. But you have a look at so many people do that from their diet when they really need it in. Then they over consume water the just deplete their sodium stores. They tell you to eat bananas to fix your cramps but that’s because the potassium.

Jeff:     Yeah, right.

Matt:   They’ll supplement with magnesium. We know we never run out of calcium because it’s going to come from bones and teeth. So you’re left with sodium as the electrolyte that’s out of balance with your thing.

Now taurine. Taurine works by holding magnesium in the calcium channel. So when you get a signal from your nerves to your muscle, calcium rushes into the muscle to induce the muscle contraction.

As the calcium rushes in it creates this positive charge build up inside. Then some of the magnesium tries to get thrown out, but the magnesium as it’s going out of the channels it blocks more calcium from coming in and that’s how it relaxes.

So calcium coming in makes a contraction, magnesium blocking that channel allows it to relax. What taurine does, is taurine holds magnesium in that channel. It reinforces the magnesium blockade, but more importantly if you’re deficient in taurine, you can’t hold magnesium in that channel, which means you’re more likely to cramp and you can’t the get the proper magnesium effects, so throw in ZMST. But if you’re doing Infrared pre and during, you want to do the ZMST post because you want the taurine not at the same time as the beta-alanine.

Jeff:     Because they’ll compete, right?

Matt:   Yeah. So take ZMST, two of those suckers after training, but I’d probably take two capsules three times a day. Then get into the salt pills and-

Jeff:     Yeah, don’t wash your ZMST down with your Infrared. That’s going to be counterintuitive to a point.

Matt:   The funny thing is, so it doesn’t really matter. I mean it’s not as if the taurine is going to stop beta-alanine. Beta-alanine will always work.

Jeff:     Yes.

Matt:   The point is, that taurine is going to be floating around waiting for its opportunity to work.

Jeff:     Get in. Right.

Matt:   And so, if you’re an athlete and if you’re competing, especially endurance and running and stuff like that, there’s just extra shit, the extra stuff you’ve put in your stomach with the water and everything that you just don’t need.

The right time to do it is away from it. If you did it at the same time because it fits in better, you can’t get it any other time, you don’t really notice that it’s causing any extra swishing in your stomach, you can throw them together. It’s not that bad, it’s just that the taurine will have to wait.

Jeff:     Yeah, what about the calcium with the zinc as well too?

Matt:   Oh yeah. That’s all right.

Jeff:     They could slow it down a little bit.

Matt:   Not too much.

Jeff:     Not too bad.

Matt:   Yeah.

Jeff:     Okay.

Matt:   The question Jeff was asking then was just in regards to zinc’s well-known to inhibit the absorption of other ingredients, like we said earlier with iron, take zinc with iron, it slows it down. 10 milligrams of zinc will inhibit iron absorption by up to 20%. To actually block the absorption of such things as calcium and magnesium with zinc you actually need 1400 milligrams of zinc, which is a lot.

Jeff:     Oh yeah, that’s right.

Matt:   The toxic level of zinc is 1500. So we’re not going to get anywhere near that, you’re going to spew it out before that.

Jeff:     Yeah, yeah. Cool. All right. Well hopefully that helps Chris. As Matt says, we can tell that was at the Arnold so that was quite some time ago.

Matt:   Yeah, we suck like that. It’s mainly Jeff’s fault.

Jeff:     We are terrible. It’s not, it’s actually Brooko’s fault. It’s Brooklyn.

Matt:   Yeah Brooko.

Jeff:     She sits on these questions, she gets them and she just she …

Matt:   Yeah and Ailsa, because Ailsa and Brooklyn, you know some mornings they’re just-

Jeff:     Nasty.

Matt:   … you know when they do them champagne, they just sit there with their champagne at that winery.

Jeff:     Mm-hmm (affirmative). And their strawberries.

Matt:   Yeah and they just do that.

Jeff:     While we’re at work working hard.

Matt:   Yeah, they’re feeding each other these things and you know?

Jeff:     Mm-hmm (affirmative). Laughing at people.

Matt:   Yeah laughing at people that are doing the hard work, and they just sit around.

Jeff:     It’s horrible. Sorry Chris.

Matt:   Yeah Chris feel free like if you’re really upset about their lack of performance you can send in a letter saying, “Brooklyn and Ailsa suck.”

Jeff:     Yeah and we’ll take that under advisement.

Matt:   We’ll take that to the directors.

Jeff:     All right. This one’s for Jodie. “Hi Matt, Steve and Jeff. I’ve been recently introduced to your products of which I’ve been taken for approximately three weeks now. I workout every day cardio, strength and stretching exercise, and eat very well, drink plenty of water, and sleep reasonably well.”

You know how funny everything, when your razz is activated, all that you can hear is stuff. We were just speaking about drinking water before. The other one was talking about blood. It’s funny how they’re all inter-related these things are mate.

Matt:   Yeah, I know.

Jeff:     Anyway. “After having my third body scan done not an ounce of body fat moved from any part of me. I was crushed. I spoke the gym owner who immediately went to the ATP sales mode, has recently become a seller of your products and is very passionate about them. He also put me on a macro diet of a 125 grams of protein, 40 grams of carbs, 80 grams of good fats, 1360 calories a day, mostly chicken and tuna, salmon, beef, lots of green vegetables.

I had a couple of questions for you. How do I move this stubborn fat. Two, I had my thyroid removed a few years back because of a lump growing on it that the doctors were unsure about. As usual, my blood tests are always within the normal range.”

I get it. “I do have periods of major tiredness, but I just push through it with a family at home to run, but could quite easily curl up and go to sleep. He suggested starting to take T432 three times a day as well as AMP-V before I do my fasted cardio in the morning.

My question to you is, is the recommended dose with only half a thyroid should be taking more T432? Another problem I experience halfway through my cycle is I become extremely moody, however I try not to show it, but I feel crap. By the few days leading into it I could quite happily snap off and have a meltdown.

I know it’s hormonal, but it always comes around the same time. What would you suggest to regulate the feelings of peace and happiness without any of the products conflicting with each other.

I really love the fact that your products are all natural and look forward to seeing results over the coming months. I listen to your podcast on way to work every day and have learnt so much this far. Keep up the humor and the easy listening. Love your work. Jodie.”


Matt:   Very good. Very good.

Jeff:     Yeah, you know I love questions like this-

Matt:   Yeah, same.

Jeff:     … because I mean obviously Jodie you’re educating yourself. You’re into the podcast and you can tell that Matt and Steve obviously have a passion for health and getting results, but not sure about the products.

It can be difficult to make sure that you use our products in the right way for the right thing intended. But it’s nice to hear that she’s got an advocate there at the gym, that is seeing good results with the products previously.

Matt:   Yeah, that’s the stuff. So basically, so what’s really cool about this, I don’t know how to do it, but on our webpage actually, if you go to our webpage and type in thyroid and that sort of stuff you’ll see a lot of information about thyroid. In our thyroid information and in the T432 product information links to body temperature charts and symptoms picture questionnaires.

So rather than looking at your blood test, unless they’re measuring reverse T3s and everything, go to get your proper thyroid test done anyway to see where you’re at, whether you’ve got half a thyroid, a full thyroid, or three thyroids, we need to know where your levels are for you. Your blood test is one thing we use, but if they’re only measuring TSH, then who cares?

Look at body temperature chart and look at your body symptoms. If you have all the symptoms of a sluggish thyroid, and your body temperature’s cold, then regardless of what the blood test says, you need some thyroid support.

If you’ve got the symptoms fast thyroid, and your hot temperature wise, then you may not need T432 at all, even if you’ve only got half a bloody thyroid. So have a look at how your thyroid’s working for you, but typically, what I would do is, you could almost assume based on what you’ve said that your thyroid’s slightly sluggish.

The other reason why I say that is, when you get a sluggish thyroid you get a little bit of insulin resistance. You also get a little bit of estrogen dominance. You also get a little bit crappier ovulation, which results in lower level of progesterone in relation to estrogen. That’s what causes PMT on ovulation.

So what actually … This is the coolest thing. If you were to add T432, one capsule three times a day, start monitoring your symptoms and your body temperature, T432 does two things … He’s put up one finger. Anyway, it does two things.

One, is it support thyroid hormone conversion pathways to make sure you get the most out of the thyroid hormone you’re releasing. The second thing it targets is insulin resistance. Now the insulin resistance in the first half of your menstrual cycle is what causes the estrogen dominance and the inefficient testosterone that causes your mid-cycle stuff.

So you don’t need to go round with Alpha Venus, or we don’t through in throw in something to change your menstrual cycle because I believe that if you get the T432 Plus in with the AMP before fasted cardio, you’re going to fix your insulin resistance issues and you’re going to maximize thyroid hormone activity.

You’ll probably fix your mid-cycle menstruation problems as long as you’ve got Multi Food, because Multi Food contains the co-factors necessary to detoxify the excess estrogen that’s loitering around that makes you feel shitty at time of the month.

So clear out estrogen, enhance your ovulation by fixing insulin resistance. All can be done through T432 Plus. Then what you want to do is do the AMP-V before you do fasted cardio in the morning, deplete some of that muscle glycogen, stay relatively low, which you’re on a low carb, that’s an excellent plan.

The only thing I’d suggest is to make sure that those carbs as part of your macros, you do towards the end of the day so you can spend as much of the day as possible in fat burning mode and then back load at night.

Jeff:     Yeah. Matt, would there be any reason to put in the Alpha Venus as well?

Matt:   I wouldn’t. No, I wouldn’t. I wouldn’t. Just basically even too when you hear the way Jodie’s talking there, she doesn’t really want to screw too much around with those hormones.

Jeff:     Sure.

Matt:   She has a weird thing that happens mid-cycle, but trust me, if your thyroid is slightly out of the window, you’ll have alleviated estrogen to progesterone, you’ll have insulin resistance, you’ll have the sluggish metabolism. You’ll get all of these things.

If we slightly speed up the thyroid and eliminate the insulin resistance you’ll probably find all of those weird hormonal monthly things just disappear. It may even just be you’re deficient in folate, B12 and B6 and we can correct it with Multi Food.

Jeff:     With the Multi Food, yeah.

Matt:   So Multi Food and T432, but definitely the AMP-V before fasting cardio is a really good idea to get that fat burning.

Jeff:     Thanks for the question Jodie. We’ll send those products out to you free of charge so you can give them a crack.

Matt, I was going to say very quickly as well too, for anyone who’s listening to the podcast and I appreciate that everybody’s individual and everybody’s different and not everybody is a [inaudible 01:10:24], but we try and provide a lot of information on our website so that you can type in whatever issue you’re concerned about, whether it be thyroid, whether it be estrogen, or whether it be PCOS, or whatever it has.

Jump in. There’s the search functionality on the website. We’ve got all sorts of not only papers but podcasts, depending on whether you like to read or whether you like to listen. Outside of that we’ve also got Brooko and-

Matt:   JR.

Jeff:     Junior, yeah on the help desk.

Matt:   And Stevo, he’s there most of the time too.

Jeff:     Well Stevo just sits right next to the help desk effectively. So you can ask questions.

Matt:   Because he’s been away for two weeks. The help desk keeps turning up to my bloody door.

Jeff:     Now it’s really important as well too that we cannot give specific diet. Even with this as well too there’s always the disclaimer at the podcast that this is for information purposes to put you on the right track. To go and talk with your doctor or your healthcare practitioner, whoever you’re seeing, because you need somebody who can give you feedback.

We always want people to be empowered and to learn for themselves so that they can question everything, including us, even though we joke around and say … except for what we say-

Matt:   No, definitely question us.

Jeff:     … it’s a joke. But it’s really important that you take charge of your own health because it’s like whether it be doctors or practitioner, I don’t know how many chiropractors, or how many massage therapists, whatever, I’ve gone to and I was like, “You know they’re good, but they’re not great.” Then you find the one that’s …

It’s the same thing with your doctor. You might have doctors that have got certain bent in a certain area, maybe they’re great for some people, but maybe they’re just not getting it with you, whatever it is.

If you’ve got the information yourself and you’ve educated yourself, that’s a good starting point to then go to somebody that you trust who then can run tests and who can actually sort of help to make more sense out of it.

Matt:   Yeah, and even too, to the point that we want to help people get the testing and everything done if we can so that they can gather that data and take it to the doctor. Remember in the early days we had these mouthful company mottos? It was always, we believe that people deserve the right to live a healthy, happy life.

Jeff:     Yeah.

Matt:   We had a lot of other stuff out there. I think we’ve almost modified it now. If a job’s worth doing, it worth doing properly.

Jeff:     It worth doing yourself.

Matt:   If it’s worth doing properly, you’ve got to do it yourself. So basically, what I’ve realized is, not one’s going to take control of your health as well as you will. No one’s definitely going to take interest as much as you do.

Jeff:     No one cares as much as you and your family.

Matt:   But also too, no one’s going to invest the same amount of time into it. So what you’ve got to do realize is, if you can actually take a lot of that time and burden off your practitioner by actually doing it with your own homework, eliminating a few of the things, getting a list of testing done, you know what I mean? Take some data to these people, make it easier for them so they’re not just saying, “All right, I want to start this whole process.”

Jeff:     It’s really important as well too because either you respect them or you don’t. If you don’t respect them why are you going? Go and find somebody else. If you do respect them then take the information with a level of humility because we appreciate we can make some warriors out for people when they get a bit between their teeth. Now, I say that-

Matt:   It’s all gray though.

Jeff:     … at the same time and I know what you’re going to say Matt, sometimes you do need to bear up a little bit, especially when you’ve got the information, you’ve educated yourself, and you feel like you’re just getting a stock standard answer from whoever you’re seeing, whether it’s a naturopath, whether it’s a GP, whether it’s a specialist, whoever, what do they say? Fore warned is fore armed.

Matt:   There’s too much ego in the world you know? You get these people that are all confident with their opinion and then when you give them a little bit of evidence to show something’s different then they spit the dummy and say, “Go away.”

Jeff:     Yeah, we’ve seen that before as well.

Matt:   It’s just like, “Well …”

Jeff:     But this is the beauty of a second and/or a third opinion, and potentially look at it maybe from slightly different viewpoints as well too. Again, I’m always a huge fan of naturopaths and people who look at nature and the body as whole holistic.

Look, there are specialists out there that so understand the interrelation between different systems in the body. Those are the sorts of people that you need to see, in my opinion. Again, like anything it’s an 80/20 rule. That’ll work 80% of the time.

Matt, anything else you want to finish off on? I mean information is so powerful and it’s something we’re passionate about. Again, it’s something that you need to consistently look at, review, question everything.

Matt:   And it constantly changes. So we need to constantly keep up-to-date with the most recent information and that sort of stuff as well.

Jeff:     Yeah. Cool.

Matt:   That’s all we do, try and share a bit of that.

Jeff:     Yeah. All right mate. Well look, thanks Matt.

Matt:   No, thank you Jeff.

Jeff:     You can get off my lap now. That was weird. We will be back next week with Stevo.

Matt:   Yeah, he can sit on your lap.

Jeff:     He often does. Even when we’re not doing the podcast.

Matt:   Yeah, I noticed.

Jeff:     Like, “Go back to your own workstation Stevo.”

Matt:   Yes. I actually thought you were a ventriloquist. He was your little doll.

Jeff:     Have you ever seen the way he talks to … have you seen when he does his reviews for the Tribies?

Matt:   I’m doing that today.

Jeff:     Well then you have to talk like they’re three-year-olds and you’re in romper room or something.

Matt:   Hello, I can do that. I’m just going to lick the screen as I answer questions for that.

Jeff:     On that high note. Thanks Matt.

Matt:   No, thank you Jeff.

Jeff:     And we’ll be back next week.

Matt:   Ever so mature for your age.

Speaker 2:       Thanks for listening and remember, question everything. Well except for what we say. We say.