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Episode 104 – Cort RX – Product Podcast


ATP Science – Episode 104 – CORT RX


In today’s Product Podcast Matt, Steve and I discuss ATP Science’s CORT RX.

CORT RX has been a runway success for ATP Science due to its profound effect on improving Sleep Quality.  It does this through its regulation of Cortisol levels in the body through its Adaptogenic ingredients.  Whether your Cortisol levels are too high or too low CORT RX brings them back into balance.

While CORT RX is used by many people for its benefits of improving Sleep Quality, it is also used to improve Energy levels, Liver Detoxification, and as a Super Antioxidant called an NRF2 Gene Activator.

Matt considers it to be the most potent Antioxidant, Antiaging formula on the market today.

**This information is not designed to diagnose, treat, prevent, or cure any condition and is for information purposes only.  Please discuss any information in this podcast with your health care professional before making any changes to your current lifestyle**


ATP Project Prodcast on CORT RX.

Matt, today I’m joined by you and Steve and we’re going to be breaking down CORT RX, why you created it, who should use it, what’s in it, how it works, the whole box and dice.

Matt: Cool.

Jeff: So Matt, tell me, what is it?

Matt: Well, it’s a weird formula, it’s kind of hard to explain so I’m glad we’re doing this Prodcast.  It’s an Adaptogenic formula and the key features of Adaptogens is they help to normalise your physiology regardless of the direction of change.

What that basically means is, if you’re down and flat they’ll pick you up, but if you’re up and anxious it will calm you down, and that’s a challenging thing to do because we need to regulate the Adrenal Gland so it works high all day, because during the day your Adrenal Gland helps you deal with Stress, Pain, Inflammation, keep you awake, keep you alert, and at night we need it to switch off totally so we can go into a nice deep refreshing sleep.

I’ll tell a little bit today about how to work out what stage of Adrenals you’re at, whether your Adrenals are overactive or whether they’re exhausted or whether they’re in a phase of conservation.  We’ll see if we can work out some strategies to know how to dose it up depending on your stage of Adrenal Dysfunction, and we’ll also break down the ingredients so you have a good understanding of how the product is working for you, so you get a better understanding of how to use it for you in your particular condition.

Jeff: We talk a lot about Cortisol, and this product specifically was designed to treat that or to work with your body to get it into the right rhythm, which as you describe it Matt, is like a wave.


But, it’s also a very powerful NRF2 Activator which is one of the most amazing Antioxidants on the face of the planet, and it has some other functions as well.  But, those are probably the two most noted reasons why people take this product.

Matt: I’m glad you mention it, because when we try to help someone with Adrenal Dysfunction, or are suffering from Stress, Anxiety, Adrenal Fatigue, we want to take the burden off their Stress Axis, and the way we can do that is we can either give you a chemical straightjacket as a pharmaceutical or a Herbal sedative and basically reduce your Stress Response that way, or we can remove the burden off your Stress Nervous System.

Now, it’s important to understand that the HPA Axis is there to help you survive Stress.  You can’t afford to wait to see if your Stress is life threatening or not before you react.  The definition of Stress is anything that makes a change in your body.  So, it could be Inflammation, Allergies, Intolerance, Acidity, Temperature changes, it could be Emotional Stress, Psychological Stress, it could just be that bloody phone that does not stop ringing. (laughs) So, we’ve got all of those different reasons for us to be running a Stress Response.

The way it works is, the Hypothalamus in our Brain it picks up on all this data, but it doesn’t wait to see how relevant that data is to our survival, it doesn’t wait to see if it’s an Allergy or an Intolerance just in case it’s a poison or a venom.  So, immediately our Stress Response is activated then the Hypothalamus in the Brain tells the Pituitary Gland to tell the Adrenal Glands to fire.  While that is happening, our Nervous Response to Stress is instant, so our ability to punch something and run, the Anxiety, the Nerves, the Heart pumping and all that stuff that you need, that happens immediately.

Then, about 10 seconds after that, Cortisol is released from the Adrenal Gland and Cortisol’s job is to go back and switch off the Stress Response.  Cortisol’s job is also to switch off the Stress Trigger, such as Inflammation and Immune, that’s why Cortisol is Anti-Inflammatory, Cortisol suppresses the Immune System, Cortisol switches off our Stress Response.  But, you can imagine if Cortisol is going back to our Brain saying, “We’ve had enough time to escape, it’s gone, relax,” but then at the same time that phone rings again, or that Allergy is still playing up, or you’ve injured yourself, or you’ve got DOMS from training two days earlier.  What you’ll find is every time Cortisol is going back to your Brain saying, “Stop, relax,” your body has to override it and you become resistant to Cortisol in its ability to switch off your Stress Response.  So, imagine that you’re in a pit of spiders, you jump out of that pit of spiders and think, “Oh gosh, that was scary but now I’m safe,” then you realise you’ve jumped into a pit of snakes.  If that Cortisol was floating around in your Brain saying, “Stop, relax, chill out,” you would die, so your body overrides that Cortisol and goes again.


But, unfortunately, in today’s society we do not know if the Stress is life threatening or not before we react and therefore it may just be the phone call, it might be a temperature change, it might be someone you just don’t like, it might be a feeling you don’t like, that occurs and you drive and drive and drive, and your Cortisol just goes up and up and up.

Your Brain may be desensitised to the Cortisol but the rest of your body feels its effects, and then we manifest with Adrenal Overactivity.  Our body can’t maintain that forever, so we can then go through phases of Adrenal Conservation and if we still push we go into a phase of Adrenal Exhaustion.  But, what happens is, you will go through the Adrenal overactivity for a long time before you get the phases of Exhaustion.

When treating the Adrenals some people can definitely feel the effects of when their Adrenal Glands are Exhausted, and in that situation, they look for stimulants, they look for Caffeine or a pre-workout or something to give them that oomph they need to stimulate the release of Cortisol.  The problem with that is, what has preceded the Exhaustion was Adrenal overactivity, and the problem is, if we’re not treating the cause you’re constantly driving that Adrenal Gland to release whatever it can just so you get Energy and Alertness and get rid of some of your Pain, but that’s how we push ourselves into Adrenal Fatigue.

Therefore, we need to create a better system where we regulate the way our Adrenal Glands secrete Cortisol by giving it regular breaks, typically when we’re sleeping at night, so that way the Adrenal Gland builds up some Cortisol reserves so that first thing in the morning we can get a nice big surge or a spike of Cortisol, because we want high Cortisol all day and we want no Cortisol at night, so we need to recreate that wave otherwise you’re stuck in a constant Adrenal Maladaptation.

Jeff: Right.  As we get older obviously the Adrenals take over some of the production of Testosterone and Hormone regulation as well.  So, if your body is in a constant state where your Adrenal Glands are overtaxed, they’re puffed, they’re worn out, and you don’t do anything to support them then that’s also going to have a flow on effect in other areas of your body as well.

Matt: Of course, and that’s why we talk about priorities.  Short term survival typically is our biggest priority, and no point in worrying about Menopause or Reproduction or that sort of stuff if we may not survive the day.  And, it is important to note that all those Hormones are made out of the same stuff, so if your resources are going into pumping out Cortisol and you don’t have enough resources to do that properly you don’t have much chance of being able to do the other Reproductive Hormones.

But, back to my point I was trying to make before, when you said NRF2 and Anti-Inflammatory, the best way to take the burden off your Stress Nervous System is not with a chemical straightjacket but with things that remove the burden.  So, what I’m saying is, Inflammation, Immune Activation, Toxic Exposure, are the sorts of Stress Triggers are driving our Stress Nervous System, and, on top of that, we have Work Stress, we have the phone ringing, we have the news and all that sort of stuff that can worry us.


But, if we can remove the avoidable Stress by using something that is a very powerful NRF2 Activator, a very powerful Anti-Inflammatory, or is very powerful at regulating the Liver Function, we can actually reduce a lot of the Stress Triggers that are driving our Stress Nervous System to be overactive.  If we’ve done that without giving any sort of chemical straightjacket, without giving any sort of sedatives, then if anything you should have more Energy not less Energy after we take the burden off your Adrenal Gland so that it has more of an oomph left to deal with the fun stuff, like Exercise and working hard and those sorts of things.

Jeff: When you first created this product, as I said, because I didn’t understand what it was, I thought, “Okay, here’s a product for Cortisol, so bodybuilders are going to be interested in that because they’re always concerned about producing too much Cortisol and therefore losing Muscle Tissue.”  But, as you’ve just described it’s way bigger than that.  The other thing, as you said, Energy is a huge, huge concern for people as well, and people would rather have more Energy than Pain because then they can deal with things.

Matt: Exactly.

Jeff: There are a couple of Podcasts if people want to dive down into further reasons why CORT RX has been so successful.  It is because it counters or it helps support the body with so many different things.

Episode 10 – Anxiety, Depression and Insomnia.  A lot of people that are taking this product because they have had problems sleeping because the Cortisol is out of whack, they’re not getting that morning surge, and then it’s giving them a trickle all through the night which is keeping them awake.

Episode 13 – Adrenal Maladaptation, and that’s a big one because in that one, Matt, you’ve put a graph that shows in various states about 90% of people, in some form or other, are out of whack with their Adrenals; 90% of people are in some form out of balance.

Episode 92 – The Death of Innovation, Superfood and NRF2, is also very informative.

Episode 60 – Withania, this is one of the key ingredients in this product.

So, if people want to do some more research into CORT RX and see the reasons why it helps they can certainly do that.

Matt: While we’re talking about that, those charts show how Cortisol fluctuates throughout the day.  What is supposed to happen, first thing in the morning, a big surge of Cortisol, and then at night very low Cortisol.  We talk about five different Stages of Adrenal Dysfunction, and when we really look into it, in first three we never see patients, because they’re still healthy.  The first three Phases are just the normal Stress Response where you haven’t got any problems, and I’ve never seen it.

The second Phase is where you just have an hyperreactive Response because you’ve just been through a period of Stress but everything else, otherwise, is perfect; and you rarely see those people either.


Chronic Stress is the Phase where you see most people starting to seek help because they’ve been Chronically exposed to Inflammation, Toxic Exposure.  Chronic Stress manifests into high Cortisol all day.

Stages 4 and 5 are where you see patients, and most people that you see in a Naturopath Clinic are hovering between Stages 4 and 5, which is where they’re either Hyperreactive and they can’t switch it down and they’ve got crazy high Cortisol because they’ve got stupid amounts of Stress, and they’re in the Phase of Adrenal Overactivity.  Or, they’re in a Phase of Conservation.  So, most patients are either in the Phase of the Adrenals overworking, or Adrenal Exhaustion, and usually they’re just hovering between the two.

The challenge with that is most Adrenal supporting products on the market are designed to be either uppers or downers.  So, for Adrenal Exhaustion you’re going to be loaded up with Vitamins and Nutrients and things to drive that Cortisol up to give you that Energy and give you that Arousal, but for everything else it is chemical straightjackets to switch it off.  So, trying to create a formula that allows you to be up and down at the different Stages of the day was quite a challenging feat.

What we find in most cases is they get this weird Adrenal Maladaptation, and we need to work out which group you’re in so you can work out how to dose it properly.

Stevo, do you want to talk a little bit about those daily fluctuations and why we have Cortisol highs and lows?

Steve: Sure.  First thing in the morning you correctly pointed out the Cortisol levels are supposed to be high, and the reason for that is, if you think about it from an evolutionary point of view, you wake in your cave and Cortisol is supposed to high so you can get out of bed and hunt and gather your food.  Also, Cortisol does break down Muscle Tissue to liberate Glucose to give you a spike in the morning so you can go out and get your food and eat for the day, and basically exercise.

Now, unfortunately, a lot of people ignore that biochemical thing and sleep in, that’s one of the worst things.  I’m never a fan of going against the way the body is designed, it’s like putting oil in your petrol tank, it’s wrong, and a lot of people ignore that and think, “Oh, I’ll sleep in and rest.”  But, Stress is actually not a bad thing, going back from an evolutionary point of view, because if you’re going through long grass and you hear a noise in the grass you don’t wait to see if it’s a tiger coming out to get you, your body immediately responds to that Stress and you run or get hyped up to get away from it all, flight or fight.  So, Stress is not such a bad thing, in fact it made us the number one species on earth.

It’s that Chronic long-term Stress, you pointed out, Matt.  For example, say someone’s got a mortgage, they’re Stressed for years, financial Stress can go on for months or years, and that’s the problem, it causes the Chronic Stress.  Short term Stress for an hour when you go for a run, gym, swim or whatever, is actually quite healthy for you.  So, we’ve got to put Stress in perspective, but as you said, you can be Hyperactive and have too much Cortisol in your body all day, or have too little, and that’s the problem.


Too much Cortisol, for example, is associated with Prostatic Cancer and a few other diseases, it’s a predictive marker for Alzheimer’s Disease, and can lead to Depression as well.

But, having said that, too little Stress can cause poor Memory because you’re not activating your Brain enough.  You can get all sorts of problems, you can get a whole lot of Muscle Pain with low Cortisol because your Inflammation is down.  So, you want it to be about right and you want it to be high in the morning and low at night, which is exactly what you want

Jeff: With Chronic Stress levels, which is probably what most people think about with regards to Cortisol is Heart Attack territory and things like that.


Jeff: Which is, obviously, another major killer.

Matt: Well, let’s talk about that.

Jeff: Yeah.


Matt: What we’re talking about, to find out if you’ve got high Cortisol, and Stevo mentioned it quite a few times there.  Cortisol blocks the activity of Serotonin.  We know Serotonin to be a sleepy content chemical, that’s why with our big surge of Cortisol in the morning we’re supposed to wake up. If you’re not awake and not capable of going back to sleep it means that you haven’t had a proper Cortisol surge. That’s why you see in the movies where the old nurses in the Intensive Care units they rush in and open up the windows, “Good morning,” and try to scare the hell out of everyone and get a rush of sunlight and a whole heap of noise to try to get that Cortisol up.  And, in the morning, as Stevo was saying, it liberates Sugars so you’ve got some fuel to get up and go.  It also switches off the Inflammation.  At night we get a drop in Cortisol and that’s why we wake up with no soreness and Pain in the morning until the Cortisol comes out and switches off the Inflammation, gets everything running, so we need a certain amount for that.

If you’ve got too much Cortisol then you’ll manifest with Anxiety and Panic because we’re blocking too much Serotonin, and it creates Depressive sorts of symptoms.  So, high Cortisol definitely causes that.  High Cortisol also holds Salt in your body which holds Water in your body because it’s part of the Survival Instinct, so in case of this Survival or Stress Response you might have lost your leg or something, so it thinks, “We’re probably bleeding, we better hold some Water, we better hold some Salt in our body just in case of injury,” but Chronically, that creates high Blood Pressure.  So, people with high Cortisol tend to have high Blood Pressure and that’s where you were saying the Stress, the Anxiety can lead to Heart Attacks and Blood Pressure problems, Strokes and all that sort of stuff.

Also, with high Cortisol, because it holds a lot of Salt you get a lot of Fluid Retention, so you get Fluid Retention and you get Swelling.  Cortisol also preserves Fat and Fluid around your Internal Organs, so high Cortisol people tend to break down a lot of their Meat off their arms and legs and hold Fat and Fluid around their Internal Organs instead.

Jeff: Classic ET body.

Matt: Exactly, apple shaped sort of thing.  The other thing that it can do is because it blocks Serotonin you can’t get to sleep.  So, if you’ve got high Cortisol you can be Anxious all day and then you just can’t switch off.

Jeff: Obviously, that’s got to be having an impact on Testosterone, Growth Hormones, Rates of Recovery.

Matt: Well, it’s even simpler than that, Jeff.  Because, what actually happens is, the HPA Axis that drives the Cortisol release is our Survival Axis.


When that Axis is working it actually switches off the Gonadal and the Thyroid Axis.

Jeff: There you go.

Matt: An interesting fact, while we’re talking about it before I forget, that’s one of the coolest things about Withania or Ashwagandha, as other people call it.  Withania activates GABA Receptors and calms down the Sympathetic Nervous System and the HPA Axis, it tells the Stress Axis to calm down and it actually drives and upregulates the Thyroid and Gonadal Axes.  It is one of the most powerful things about Withania being able to give that balance during Stress.

So, when someone’s got high levels of Cortisol the other thing that happens, like we said they preserve Fat and Fluid around their Internal Organs, they get Fluid Retention in other places possibly, Blood Pressure possibly, Anxiety, Worry, that sort of stuff.  It can also suppress the Immune System, so long term exposure to Cortisol suppresses our Anti-Infectious defence and upregulates, to a certain amount, our Allergic defence.  So, you’ll see all those sorts of symptoms.

Also, other weirder symptoms that can occur with high Cortisol are Headaches, Nose Bleeds, Hot Flushing and that sort of stuff, as the Blood pools around the body, and poor sleep onset, and poor sleep maintenance because you’re trickling this Cortisol all day.  So, this is when people have high Cortisol all day and it’s still loitering around at night, and that’s the typical picture you see with Chronic Stress, they’re Anxious all day and their Brain just doesn’t want to stop at night, they never get that chance to switch off, never get a chance to Recover, and that eventually is quite exhausting.  But, that’s when we’re talking about Anxieties.

Now, your Adrenal Gland can’t do Cortisol high all day and keep Cortisol high all night.  So, you think about it, you don’t have that much Stress at night when you’re asleep, you hope, but what doesn’t sleep is Pain, Inflammation, Acidity, Allergies and Intolerances.  So, if those things are in your body then you never get a chance for your Cortisol to switch off because your Stress Response is constantly having to fight something.  What typically happens is, we go through Phases of high Cortisol all day, relatively high Cortisol all night, but like I said, you can’t maintain that.  So, the next thing that happens is, your body goes, “Well, I can’t afford to give you all this Cortisol all day just in case I have none left for all this Inflammation and Acidity and everything that you’re going through at night.  So, what I’m going to do is I’m going to hold back on your all day, so I’m going to give you a little trickle of Cortisol all day and all night.”

This when the guys say, “I’ve just been through so much Stress and I’m just exhausted, and no matter how tired I get I can’t get a good night’s sleep.”  Typically, what happens after you’ve gone through a Phase of excessive Cortisol you go through a Phase of Adrenal Conservation, not so much Exhaustion, but what happens is, you’ve got low Cortisol all day and pretty much that same low level of Cortisol all night, but that’s still too much Cortisol to let you go into a deep sleep.

Jeff: It’s bugger.


Matt: Yeah.  So, if you’re in that first group where you’ve got high Cortisol all day and it’s still there all night then you’re better off taking a product like CORT RX 1 capsule three times a day to deal with your Anxiety and Panic through the day, and that will remove the burden from the Adrenals and give a chance for the Adrenal Gland to not get into that next Conservation Phase and you can stop it there.

But, if you’re in that next Phase already, where your Cortisol is relatively low all day – and, how to know if that’s happening is, you try to get out of bed in the morning but you just want to go back to sleep.  So, you get this annoying Cortisol trickle and it just doesn’t happen, so you’re tired and you could go back to sleep.  Typically, if you’ve had a Cortisol release in the morning you can’t go back to sleep once you’re awake.  If you’ve got an annoying little Cortisol trickle then you could easily go back to sleep and throughout the day you could go to sleep at any time.

Jeff: Wow!

Matt: Also, weird things happen where you become Sensitive to Glare, you lose the ability to hold Water, so you’re thirsty all the time but having to pee all the time because you can’t hold that Salt in, Sensitive to Noise, makes it hard to Switch Off and let go of Stress, often Dizziness and that sort of thing.  Along with the Fatigue you get excessive amounts of Inflammation, Aches and Pains, excessive amounts of Allergic Inflammation and Snot and that sort of stuff.  But, you just can’t get to Sleep because you’ve got this annoying trickle of Cortisol left all night, which sucks.  The classic feature is, people say, “The tireder I get the harder it is to get a good night’s sleep,” and that’s a classic feature.

If that is you, then what you’re better off doing is don’t use the CORT RX through the day, use it only at night, and you can do 2 capsules with dinner and another 2 before bed if you need it, and force that Cortisol to go down at night.  With a high dose of Cortisol all in one hit you can force it low, you get more of a GABAergic effect, or more of a Cortisol lowering effect with a high dose, and it will help to force it down at night, which will allow your Adrenal Glands to have a bit of breather, and then it will pick up in the morning.

Jeff: That’s the way that Toni used to use it, whereas I couldn’t use it like that, I couldn’t take them before bed, I had to use them throughout the day, in fact I would typically take 2 with breakfast and then 1 with lunch, and that worked perfectly for me, my Energy levels were good.  If I take them before I go to bed at night and I can’t sleep.

Steve:Can’t sleep, yeah.

Matt: Because, your body fights it.

Jeff: That’s right.  I remember a while ago people were really touting, especially the mainstream and doctors, “Adaptogenics aren’t real, there’s no such thing” “Well then, how do you explain this helping all different people?”

Matt: The problem is, they’re all different, there’s no classic feature for an Adaptogen and I’m going to list off four of them and how they all work totally differently, which is why we’ve stacked them together.

With Adrenal Exhaustion, before we move on, they have a total loss of Cortisol.  The only time you ever see that is in things like Addison’s Disease where they have no Adrenal Cortex.  Everyone else is in a Phase of Conservation.  Your Adrenal Gland would never let you fully run out, that’s your ability to fight Stress and deal with life threatening Stresses, so before you fully run out it just holds out on you.


But, the problem with that is, as soon as you give it a little bit of juice it just wants to go back to being an overactive twit again.  In Chinese Medicine, they describe it as an Overflowing Cup, and I love it because it’s either Overflowing or it’s Empty, there’s no middle ground.  And, in Traditional Chinese and Medicine the way they would treat it is by building you a bigger Cup, so we can hold more before we Overflow, and that’s the concept behind this formulation.

Jeff: CORT RX.  Cool.  What’s in it, Matt?  And, what are the Herbs and why did you select them, and how do they work individually and collectively?

Matt: Well, Withania is one of the main Herbs in there.

Jeff: In that Podcast Episode 60 – Strength and Virility of a Horse.

Matt: That’s because Ashwagandha means Stinks like a Horse, or something like that.

Steve: Yeah, something about a horse.

Jeff: Right.  It’s cool.

Matt: So, Withania is a cool Herb for a couple of different reasons.  It’s a very powerful GABAergic agent, which is a good Sedative, but it’s also an Adaptogen.  Whenever you see an Adaptogen, and this makes me laugh when people try to sell Nootropic formulas, they try to sell powerful Sleep formulas or a powerful Nootropic formula, or a Stimulant, and they put Adaptogens in it, but Adaptogens will never allow you to have an extreme of anything.  So, even though Withania is a powerful GABAergic agent it never fully Sedates you the way a Benzodiazepine would or even other things like Kava, they aren’t Adaptogenic they’re just Sedatives.

Jeff: They bring you back to baseline, don’t they, homeostasis?

Matt: Yeah.  So, basically, it will bring you to normal.  So, if your GABA is already not overactivated it won’t fully Sedate you, so it will leave it alone.  Withania is very cool because it switches off the Stress Axis through GABAergic agents reducing the amount of signals getting through.  It also Stimulates the Thyroid Axis and Gonadal Axis to improve Thyroid Hormone activity and Gonadal Hormone activity even while under Stress, which is brilliant because normally Stress will switch off anything to do with Reproduction and Metabolism and just focus on the now.

At the same time Withania also preserves a chemical called Acetyl Choline.  Now that builds up your Rest and Digest Nervous System.  I was talking about your Stress Axis how it releases Adrenaline as our Nervous Response to Stress.  The opposite to that is Acetyl Choline that helps with Short Term Memory, Concentration Span, Focus, Attention to Detail, Sleep Quality, Digestion, Detox, Hormones.  The Sympathetic Nervous System, which you can get stuck in if you can’t switch off your Stress Axis, does Long Term Memory, Gut Instincts, Intuition, Far Vision, it shuts down the Blood Supply to Gut to make sure it all goes out to your Muscles and Brain.

Withania has the ability to balance out the Thyroid, Gonadal, and the other Nervous Responses to Stress while reducing the amount of signals down to the Adrenal Gland.

Jeff: Huge.

Matt: So, that’s just one of the Herbs that works very high upstream on the hierarchy to say, “It’s not all about Stress, we’ve got other things to do as well.”


Jeff: What else is in there, Matt?

Matt: Then, if you stack it with such things as Rhodiola, and Rhodiola is the only Herb in the formula that’s directly working around the Adrenals, and working on how the Adrenals release Cortisol, and Rhodiola is reducing the amount of Cortisol released in response to Stress, Rhodiola has a very powerful affect looking after certain Immune aspects and Anti-Inflammatory effects to reduce the burden on the Nervous System, but its most powerful effect is regulating the way the Adrenal Gland releases Cortisol, which is right down the bottom, as far downstream as you can go with regards to our Stress Response.

What we’ve got in there is, Schisandra, and Schisandra is one of my favourite Adaptogens.

Jeff: Yeah, you love this one.

Matt: I do love Schisandra, because as an Adaptogen it doesn’t actually directly do that much on the Adrenals or the HPA Axis at all.  The way it works is it works in the Immune System, in the Gut, it works on Acidity, it works on how our body responds to Temperature Changes, changes in Altitudes, basically, all of the weird things that are defined as Stressors.  It helps to modulate our immediate Innate Defence Response to that, so we get less burden on our Nervous System.

Jeff: Be more Resilient?

Matt: Yeah, you become a lot more Resilient, but don’t use that word yet, because the NRF2 Gene is the Resilient Gene, and this is the gold.

Jeff: Right.

Matt: So, NRF2 activates this thing called HARE, like a hare, the Human Antioxidant Response Element.  Every Cell of our body has NRF2 Genes, and that is our immediate Defence to Stress, that is our first line of Defence.  By activating NRF2 we increase a heap of Detoxification Pathways that help to clear away Toxins, Poisons, Venoms, and new weird stuff like Electromagnetic Radiation and Plastics and Xenoestrogens.  All of those things NRF2 can protect us from.  At the same time, NRF2 Activation will stimulate a release of Anti-Inflammatory compounds through the body to switch off the Inflammation that’s likely to come as part of this Stress.

Jeff: They always say, “All aspects of Aging are Inflammatory.”  So, that’s the issue.

Matt: Exactly.  It’s a major driver.  I challenge people to try to – whenever I talk to a specialist and they’ll say, “No, I’m a psychologist, it’s all done by psychology,” or an Immunologist will say, “It’s all to do with the Immune System,” and the Gastroenterologists are probably the closest because it’s closer to the Gut problems.  But, everyone specialises in these different regions, and if you throw out to those specialists and go, “Okay, tell me about Interleukin-6.”  A compound like Interleukin-6 which is a chemical messenger, and I don’t even know what it’s from, I throw it out to these specialists and say, “You tell me how Interleukin-6 affects your part of the body and they’ll tell you how it drives Inflammation, and each one of these specialists will say that it’s a major driving factor behind their problem.  It gets released from Immune Cells, Nerve Endings, all sorts of parts all over your body simultaneously to say, “You’re under Stress.”

Jeff: Wow!


Matt: Now, when we have things like NRF2 Activators it can protect us from all of those, Antioxidants, Anti-Inflammatories, Detoxification Pathways and through that mechanism you significantly reduce the amount of Stress Triggers that are getting to the Hypothalamus to Trigger a Stress Response.  That way you don’t know – it’s like ignorance is bliss.  This stuff can be going on but you’re just not feeling the effects of it, and you maintain a certain level of composure because you’ve removed so much burden from your body.

Jeff: So, are all those ingredients working on the NRF2, Matt?

Matt: Withania does, Schisandra does.  I can’t remember if Rhodiola does.

Steve:No, I don’t remember either.

Matt: I think Rhodiola is the only one that doesn’t, but Withania, Schisandra and Turmeric are the most potent NRF2 Activators.

Jeff: And, we haven’t even spoken about Turmeric yet.

Matt: No.

Jeff: Most people understand Turmeric or at least they’ve heard of it.

Matt: They don’t understand it, Jeff.  It bugs the hell out of me how little people understand about Turmeric because everyone has been tricked.

Jeff: Well, they probably have heard about it, but it’s been understated just how awesome Turmeric is.

Matt: Well, now you’re going to get me started.


Matt: We always talk a lot about Bioefficacy.

Jeff: Yes.  Well, we do.

Matt: We do.  When you look at traditional foods – when you go back to where science starts people find things like Turmeric and say, “Wow, all the studies suggest that this thing is having a protective effect, protecting us from Inflammation, Cancer, Stress and all those sorts of things.  Then they go and study it and they go, “Yes, yes it does.  We’ve proven that Turmeric is very powerful for all these things.”  Then, what they do is they go, “Let’s work out how it works,” so they try to use Turmeric in some medical model, and the first thing that is part of a medical model is to study the pharmacology, looking at the rate of absorption, and they go, “Let’s talk about the Bioavailability of Turmeric.  Oh, there is none.  Turmeric is not Bioavailable therefore all of this research, all this evidence on Bioefficacy, all this stuff must have been a scam.”

It’s not true.  We know Turmeric works, we know Turmeric as a food works, we know Turmeric’s traditional use works, that’s why everyone got so excited about researching it.  Some people found that it doesn’t work by getting delivered systemically all over the body to every Cell of the body so then they thought it doesn’t work.  Well, it doesn’t work following that medical model, but what we do know is that it does work and, it doesn’t get absorbed all over the body.

So, let’s look at how it works.  Within the Gut, within the Mucosa, within the Liver and our First Pass Metabolism, basically, when you eat these foods they interact with NRF2 Receptors all through the Gut Mucosa.  Now, our Gut Wall is our First Line of Defence.


The majority of the insults that are coming to our Immune System through to our Liver are coming across this Mucosa.  That is the most important part of the body to reduce burden.  Now, by activating NRF2 Receptors and by getting absorbed and Detoxified through First Pass Metabolism it’s upregulating a series of Enzymes and processes that help us to Detoxify Toxins.  One of those processes is called Glucuronidation.  NRF2 Activation stimulates Glucuronidation for the purpose of clearing away Xenoestrogens, Plastics, Electromagnetic Radiation, Poisons and Venoms.

Now, it also clears away Turmeric.  So, the way Turmeric works is it gives itself to the Liver to upregulate the way the Liver clears it away and in the process, it’s clearing away a lot of other Toxins as well.  At the same time it’s upregulating NRF2 Receptors and Modulating all these things via the Liver.  Every drop of your Blood goes through your Liver every hour so having that ability through there we can control a lot of the Antioxidant Pathways, Anti-Inflammatory Pathways, and take the burden off your body via the Liver and via the Mucosa and we want your Turmeric to be passed through the First Pass Metabolism and cleared away and not taken all over your body.

So, the process that does that is called Glucuronidation.  The process of adding something like Black Pepper to Turmeric –

Jeff: Yeah, that’s the big one.

Matt: Yeah, everyone wants to block Glucuronidation to allow Turmeric to float all over your body, but you’ve actually blocked the Pathway that Turmeric uses to induce it’s health benefits, just for the purpose of getting it into your body where it doesn’t have health benefits.

Jeff: So, they go, “Hazar, it’s now more Bioavailable,” but it does nothing.

Matt: It’s less Bioeffective.

Jeff: That’s it.

Matt: Now, the times that you do want systemic Turmeric is when you use it for Cancer.  So, Bioavailable Turmeric is effective for Cancer because in Cancer it does a couple of things:  it inhibits a process known as Angiogenesis, which is the development of new Blood Cells, which is bad for Cancer. But, it’s great if you want to build Muscle, if you want to maintain Circulation, if you want to maintain the health in your body we need Angiogenesis as part of this process.  Turmeric blocks that, which is good for Cancer but bad for other things.

Turmeric also blocks mTOR Pathways, which are our ability to build Muscle, and so systemic delivery of Turmeric through Bioavailable Turmeric slows down Cancer growth by inhibiting mTOR Pathways, but it also stops our growth of Muscle and Bone and everything.  We want Turmeric working in our Gut to activate all these same Pathways that still protect us from the Cancer and everything, but we want it done there and we definitely don’t want to block the effects of Turmeric just to get systemic delivery of Turmeric.

Jeff: Well, it sounds like systemic delivery of Turmeric, in the most part, is actually not going to be beneficial unless you’ve got Cancer.

Matt: Yeah.


Jeff: But, for everything else, building Muscle Tissue and all the rest of it, bad idea.

Matt: Yeah, exactly.

Jeff: Matt, you always say, “It’s difficult to outsmart Nature,” and sometimes there are synergistic relationships between ingredients, but in this case, you’re being sold up the river without a paddle if you believe that you need Black Pepper.  The other day, a good friend of mine, said, “Turmeric, you’ve got to have it with Black Pepper or otherwise it doesn’t work,” and I see these internet myths getting around and it just frustrates me, so it must absolutely tear you guys to pieces.

Steve:It does.  There’s lots of them too.  There’s no shortage of myths.  I liken it to something like Probiotics or Acidophilus, people would have heard of Acidophilus; they’re bugs that work in your Gut, but so does Turmeric.  Bugs don’t get absorbed throughout your body, it works in your Gut.  Turmeric is slightly different and I’m over simplifying it, but that’s the way it works, it works in the Gut and it doesn’t have to be absorbed.  Acidophilus isn’t absorbed in your body at all; I hope not, you’d be in trouble if it is.  It just sits in your Gut, it’s a bug that grows there.

Jeff: That’s a great analogy, Steve.  So, we’ve covered off on the powerful effects of CORT RX on Cortisol.  [00:37:10] Great, it blunts Muscle Loss. But, realistically, most people we have, take it to improve their quality of Sleep and their Energy levels through the day, it normalises that Cortisol natural rhythm that our bodies need.  Also, it’s a very powerful NRF2 Activator, so as far as Antiaging properties, if you want to understand in a classical sense as people describe it, but a very powerful at mopping up Free Radicals, very, very powerful to save you from a whole host of Diseases and to help you stay healthy.

But, Matt, it’s effect on the Liver?  Because, it also has an effect with helping with – is it the Phase 1 or the Phase 2?

Matt: Yeah.  Basically, with the Liver we have Phase 1 Detoxification Pathways that are designed to make Toxins water soluble so that we’re capable of clearing them away through frothing at the mouth, Vomiting, Diarrhoea, and Sweating, we get rid of them that way.

Phase 2 Deactivates the Toxin so we can, effectively, clear it away in our own time via our Bowels and Urine without it being still Biologically active and reactive.

When we’re exposed to Stress, Toxins, Inflammation, Infections, and Immune Activation, Phase 1 speeds up.  That’s how you speed up Phase 1 by Toxic Exposure.  The only way to speed up Phase 2 is by supplementing with a heap of Vitamins and Glycine and Amino Acids and Methylators, Sulphators, Glucuronidators, and all that sort of stuff.

So, what happens with this product, CORT RX, via NRF2 and via the individual Herbs used in it, is they have the ability to slow down Phase 1 and speed up Phase 2.  If Phase 1 is going fast and Phase 2 can’t keep up you make a lot of what we call Reactive Intermediates that contribute to Allergies, Inflammation, Irritability, Perspiration, Bad Sleep, and all those sorts of things.  So, that’s how it works on the Liver, and that process alone takes a lot of burden off our Stress Nervous System.


Jeff: So, it basically helps to regulate the optimal speed between Phase 1 and Phase 2?  It helps with the slowing down of the Phase 1 so that it actually helps the body to clear it more efficiently and effectively?

Matt: Yeah.  It will actually slow down Detox to a certain degree but allow it to be more efficient.  Most people think, if someone says,” I’m doing a Detox, and it’s going to get worse before it gets better, it’s just a healing crisis.”  That’s because their Phase 1 is going too fast and Phase 2 can’t keep up, and then they take something to stimulate Phase 1 to go faster and then, all of a sudden, they’re Sweating and Sick and Vomiting, and they go, “Oh, that’s okay, I’ll get better.”

The problem is, because it’s a Survival Mechanism, this becomes part of your Innate Defence Mechanism.  If you have a Stress Response that involves manipulation of the Cytochrome P450 Pathways in your Liver and you survive your body gives itself a pat on the back and says, “That’s what we’ll do again next time.”  So, the problem is, again you’re constantly acquiring new tricks as part of your Innate Defence Mechanism depending on what allowed you to survive last time.

I’ll say one more thing, and it’s very important.  Not many people realise this, but we can supplement the product for Anxiety throughout the day, we can take higher doses to help Sleep at night, but if you get Pain and Inflammation, if you actually have an Inflammatory Injury you can take 2 capsules of this every couple of hours as a very powerful Anti-Inflammatory.  Because it’s an Adaptogenic product it won’t have that full sedating effect if you’re using it as an Anti-Inflammatory, so you can take 2 capsules every couple of hours to treat acute Inflammation, or hangovers.  (laughs) Well, apparently.

Jeff: That’s cool.  It’s sounds good if it’s slowing down Phase 1 and increasing Phase 2.

Matt: And, UDIs, Unidentified Drinking Injuries are a combination of hangovers and Inflammation, so 2 capsules every couple of hours.


Jeff: I want to read out a couple of testimonials from every day people.

This one is from Jess-

“CORT RX.  My husband has always had interrupted Sleep, waking up nearly every night in the middle of the night.  After feedback from an FAQ on a Podcast with Matt and Jeff he started on the CORT RX.  Now he only wakes up to his alarm and has also noticed a change in his Energy levels, a massive impact on day to day quality of life, well worth it.”

This one is from Good for Me on Instagram-

“My favourite product by ATP Science that I can’t live without is CORT RX.  I had blood tests done about four months ago and it came back with extremely high Cortisol levels and my doctor told me that I need to Stress less.  I’ve been talking the CORT RX now, and not only has it helped to bring down those high Cortisol levels, it’s also got me an amazing night’s Sleep.  Thank you, ATP.”

This one is from Jazz-

“Thank you, ATP Science for the best Sleep ever.  I started taking CORT RX again last week, one week post-op, and I’m feeling amazing.  Sleeping was a bit difficult after surgery as I had to sleep nearly upright, and since I didn’t take any pain killers it would take me ages to fall asleep.  Since getting back on CORT RX I have been able to fall asleep early and stay asleep all night.  I wake up at 5:30 am every morning with no alarm clock ready to go.  I love this product so much and have been recommending it to, literally, everybody that I know.  Thank you, ATP Science.”

Here’s another one from LG Training-

“I have to say that this stuff from ATP Science is the bomb.  I have a fair bit of Stress in my life as we all do, but the difference is my ability to cope when I take CORT RX is remarkable.  I also see and feel the benefits physically in how my body responds to dealing with Stress.  I high dosed this particular supplement for a couple of days as I felt I really needed it, and it definitely did the job both in calming down my mind and my body, and in prep for a pro qualifying event tomorrow.”

That’s excellent.

Last one-

“CORT RX by ATP Science.  This amazing product has helped me in more ways that I can think.  I’ve always been the biggest Stress head and Stress is so bad for your body.  I’ve always been super tired through the day and just lay in bed and can’t sleep at night.


I take two to three caps depending on my day with dinner every night, and now I’m down to sleep within an hour.  Sleep is so important.  Now, I’m waking up refreshed and my core is looking way leaner, which is just a bonus.  So, basically, if you suffer from Stress and Anxiety, have trouble Sleeping, or falling asleep and just want something Natural to help you chill out and relax, this gets my vote.”

Excellent feedback, Matt.

The amount we have coming through talking about Sleep, because if you haven’t go Sleep your quality of life is out the window, and again, we know that it works on other levels.  The NRF2 Activation side of things is probably harder to determine, because that’s something you can take and you’ll maybe never noticed the benefits because it’s the Cancer that you didn’t get.

Matt: Yeah.

Steve: Exactly.

Jeff: But, I love this product as well, it’s fantastic for Sleep quality, fantastic for Inflammation.  I take it as part of my general day to day Antioxidants because I don’t think there’s anything better on the planet, Matt.

Matt: No, I think it’s –

Jeff: Well, of course you do.

Matt: Everyone should take it just for that NRF2, and moving into the future with our future concerns with exposure to Toxins and Pollutants, Electromagnetic Radiation –

Jeff: The Electromagnetic Radiation thing is a big concern.

Matt: To have a tool against that and to protect us NRF 2 is the key to protect us against a lot of the insults in the future, which are Estrogens, Electromagnetic Radiation, weird Plastics –

Steve:Toxins and stuff.

Jeff: Cool.  Anything you want to finish up with, Matt, with regards to the Podcast, this Prodcast, because people have been asking to know more about it.

Matt: Well, the main thing is, when you read that feedback, the amount of people who comment about it with Sleep, it’s important for people to understand it does all that without being a Sedative or a Sleeping Pill.  It actually does that by being an Anti-Inflammatory, an Antioxidant, and a modulator towards your Nervous System, and the longer you take it the better it works for you, the healthier you’ll become, as opposed to a chemical straightjacket full of side effects that you just use as a last resort.  So, try this first.

Jeff: Yeah, great.

Steve: Absolutely.


Jeff: Well, thanks Matt, thanks Steve, I appreciate it.  If you’ve got any questions on the CORT RX please flick us an email, or get in contact with us via Facebook, and until then we’ll see you on the next Prodcast.

Matt: Woohoo.

Steve: Okay.  By for now.