ATP Science, Episode 63 – Is DHT affecting You?


Welcome to the ATP Project, Episode 63 – DHT – Impact on Men and Women.

In today’s podcast we cover off on:
• Hair Loss
• Gut Fat
• Prostate
• PCOS association with Steroids
• FAQs – Pear shape body fat

Low Immunity Systems

A Steroid user’s question on Supplements to maximise gains and minimising side effects.

Welcome to the ATP Project, you’re with your hosts Matt and Jeff.

Jeff: Mattie?

Matt: G’day.

Jeff: How’s it going?

Matt: Good Mate, how are you doing?

Jeff: We’re talking about DHT today. Sorry, I’m good, but people don’t really care, so let’s get straight into…

Matt: I wasn’t even listening to your answer.

Jeff: Nobody was. The thousands of people that listen to the podcast probably don’t care, they’re like, “What are you talking about today?”

Matt: I wonder how many people actually care when they say, “How are you, Mate?”

Jeff: No one, really.

Matt: I’m going to do an experiment, I’m going to actually say, “Well Mate, I’m glad you asked.”

Jeff: Let’s not have a pity party Matt, let’s just get into it because the people aren’t here to hear us chit chat, they want to hear about DHT.

Matt: Really? Why?

Jeff: Well Matt, DHT is…

Matt: Are they bearded ladies?

Jeff: Well maybe. But Matt, explain DHT to the people, what is it?

Matt: Dihydrotestosterone.

Jeff: And, where does it come from?

Matt: Cells.

Jeff: Yeah, and it’s produced how?

Matt: Alright. So Dihydrotestosterone, it’s a weird one, it’s very controversial, actually, because it is a hormone made from Testosterone, so Testosterone is converted to Dihydrotestosterone with an enzyme called 5-Alphareductase. That can happen in ovaries in women, fat cells in both men and women, hair follicles, skin – sebaceous glands, in all sorts of tissues throughout the body. What’s weird about DHT and what makes it hard to really research is that it’s what we call a Paracrine Hormone which means it is made and used in the periphery, it’s not something that is easily controlled by the Pituitary Gland, and Ovaries and Testes, so certain peripheral cells of your body, like in your skin or in your hair follicles or in the prostate or something like that, the body can convert Testosterone to Dihydrotestosterone and the Dihydrotestosterone does its effects right there, so it doesn’t go back to the bloodstream. So, when they measure blood hormones they really don’t want you mentioning DHT when the doctor says, “We’re going to do a hormonal profile for you,” because…

Jeff: It’s hard to measure?

Matt: Yeah, it usually takes them an extra three weeks or something to get the results to you, but it’s not really that accurate either because, for example; I think it’s like 70% of the DHT that’s in our blood is made predominantly from the conversion of Testosterone to DHT in the periphery and little bits leak back in. Most of the stuff is made in a tissue and used in that tissue, so the body doesn’t really know that it’s happening because the Pituitary Gland doesn’t get a chance to sample it, so yeah, it’s a weird one. So, what I’m basically getting at is, because it’s hard to show up on a blood test most of the studies where they try to create an association between high levels of DHT and a disease process they struggle to confirm the DHT in the blood is high, even though you’ve got high DHT in all these different cells. So, there is always controversy behind it because they say, “We know it does these things, but trying to prove it by doing blood tests across a population doesn’t always prove it.”

Jeff: So DHT, Matt, we need it in the right ratios, of course, and you always talk about ratios.

Matt: Yeah.

Jeff: Most people hear DHT, and especially in the fitness and sporting industry and anybody who’s had Prostate problems, Baldness and all these sorts of things. We can get into the negative association with the out of control or out of ratio DHT, but what is DHT good for?

Matt: It’s a stronger form of Testosterone. We know all the things Testosterone does that are good, like builds Muscle, Burns Fat, changes our Motivation and our Drive and that sort of stuff. Well, DHT is more aggressive than Testosterone in its actions when it binds into a receptor.

Jeff: So, why is it, generally, then considered to be a bad thing? I mean, Testosterone means more Muscle Mass, Fat Loss, and those things sound pretty good.

Matt: Yeah, that’s right. It’s mainly to do with the ratios between Testosterone and Dihydrotestosterone, they keep each other in check to a certain degree by having different effects, and by competing for the same receptors; they compete for the same receptors but have different levels of activation of that receptor. So, what you’ll find is DHT has a very strong action of that receptor and a very long lasting action, so typically, what it can do, is have an exaggerated effect and too much of a good thing is bad, apparently, and in this case it is because if you get too much of the DHT effects on stimulation of growth and can contribute to Cancer.

Jeff: Prostate Cancer, for example?

Matt: Prostate Cancer and they even think certain Breast Cancers are also linked in with that.

Jeff: Really?

Matt: Yeah, Testicular Cancer and that sort of stuff, definitely. So, Prostate and Testicle, but interestingly they’re doing a lot more research on different forms of Breast Cancer that are linked in with Testosterone or Androgens, and in this case, DHT. If you get too much Androgen activity in the Skin—you know how in your Skin, you make a certain amount of grease?

Jeff: Yeah, like Sebum or whatever it’s called?

Matt: Yeah, yeah. That just sounded like a race horse name or something.

Jeff: ‘See-bum’. I’d back that.

Matt: Yeah, you would. So, what you’ll find is too much DHT in a sebaceous gland and you’ll get a lot of grease and then that opens up the pore, makes the pore big, the bugs love the grease and that’s how people get Acne and that sort of stuff from it, especially Cystic Acnes and all that. DHT having too much effect in a Hair Follicle, for example; the hair on the arms, if you’re a chick—sorry, if you’re a lady, girl, woman, all of those, or if you’re like me and you’ve got lovely fair hair across your forearms…

Jeff: They’d be a bit strange.

Matt: Having a higher Androgen level can actually change the Hair Follicle the way it works and it can make that Hair thicker and darker, and it can also do that on side burns, Chin and that sort of stuff, it can actually create Whiskers and Beard and that sort of thing.

Jeff: Is that why some women, when they’re using Steroids, Matt, especially if they use—and, I’m not saying anyone should use anything, by the way, but if they use the drugs that are prone to convert to DHT or up the ratio that’s when they can get the Whiskers and the hairy knuckles and that sort of stuff?

Matt: Absolutely. And, it creates exaggerated Androgen effects, which is why it can happen so fast.

Jeff: Squaring of the jaw?

Matt: Yeah, the change to the jaw, the throat, the skin and all that sort of stuff.

Jeff: And, the private areas growing as well, too?

Matt: Yeah, yeah. Hey, and interesting fact about that is, they actually found that any Testosterone replacement therapy, which is…

Jeff: HRT?

Matt: Yeah, or TRT in this case, which is specifically Testosterone replacement. If you take it orally, if it’s an oral medication, you get a lot more conversion of that Testosterone to DHT and it contributes a lot more to the side effects than if you were to get Transdermal, in a cream or in an injection.

Jeff: Wow! That’s interesting.

Matt: Yeah, it’s interesting because a lot of people think, “We’ll go the oral route because it’s safer…

Jeff: But, not only that, but if girls and/or guys are using oral Steroids they have to consider the impact on the Liver as well, too.

Matt: Yeah, and it’s the Liver that’s responsible for processing it and converting a lot of the Testosterone to DHT, and then that goes into the bloodstream instead of the Test. So, that’s an interesting thing.

Jeff: It is.

Matt: So, basically, Dihydrotestosterone has an exaggerated effect compared to Testosterone, and in the cells that it’s made it will be made in that cell and act in that cell, so when it’s made in the Hair Follicles you can get Whiskers and Beards and that sort of stuff.

Jeff: Except on the crown of the head or areas where it has the opposite effect.

Matt: Yeah, exactly.

Jeff: Isn’t that a bitch, you lose it from where you want it and you grow it where you don’t need it?

Matt: Yeah, so you lose it off the head and grow it on the back, or something like that.

Jeff: Fun.

Matt: Yeah, isn’t it great. And, that happens in both men and women as well, so the build-up of Dihydrotestosterone can cause male and female pattern baldness, which is that typical pattern that they refer to—I wasn’t looking at you!

Jeff: That’s alright. I did start thinning. Matt, you produced this cool little product and we’ve spoken about it before, just as a prototype which worked really well for me, but you’ve got to start making more.

Matt: Yeah.

Jeff: The problem is, we’re so busy doing everything else that you haven’t evolved that any further.

Matt: I’ve got a heap of hair so it’s not a priority.

Jeff: Yeah, you don’t give a crap. But, what about things like, and I know you’re probably not that up on it, but I appreciate things like Finasteride, and 5-Alphareductase inhibitors, and in the natural forms you’ve got things like Zinc and all the rest of it, and that helps against Prostate. It’s funny, actually, because when I was talking to the doctor about Hair Loss and he was saying, Saw Palmetto, he was really poo pooing it. Now, what do you think about Saw Palmetto?

Matt: It’s great, it works really well. And, that’s the thing, it’s been studied compared to your Finasteride and that sort of stuff, so we know how to compare the two together so we know how to get the doses of Saw Palmetto right. It’s the same thing we talk about in other podcasts, there’s Saw Palmetto and then there’s Saw Palmetto.

Jeff: Well, there’s Saw Dust.

Matt: Yeah, it depends on who’s making it and if they’re putting it in and what dose they’re putting in, and whether it’s the real stuff or not. I mean you can buy Saw Palmetto in varying different levels of efficacy and some with no efficacy.

Jeff: So, what are you looking for, is it the berries or the leaf or the root, Matt?

Matt: It’s the berries, it’s an extract from the berries. I can’t remember off the top of my head what the active ingredient is, but anyway we’ll see when we release one which one we choose. But yeah, typically, on the head what happens is the DHT does a similar thing like when I was talking about the Acne, where you get the increased grease and everything like that and then the bugs can get in, but what happens on the scalp is the DHT causes abnormal changes to the Hair Follicle with too much grease and that sort of stuff, the pores open up, bugs go in, and then an Autoimmune Reaction occurs where the Immune System goes through and attacks the cell because it’s abnormal, it’s got an infection in it and stuff like that, and then the Hair Follicle is destroyed in the process and the hair falls out.

Jeff: Yeah. It was really interesting, actually, because looking at my hair under the microscope, which is just fascinating to look at, and there’s normally three hairs per Hair Follicle, and at the back of your head, where it’s resistant to DHT and that hair is not going to fall out, unless you’ve got severe DHT overload where it can fall out, [0:11:58] [but that Follicle had three hairs.] On the top of my head, on the crown of my head, there was two and a half, so what was starting to happen to the third hair, effectively, is that it was starting to wither and die, which then obviously creates that thinning thing], and if left unchecked it will obviously lead to…

Matt: It keeps going.

Jeff: But, having said that though, talking to the doctor he said, “How long ago did this start?” and I said it was about eight years ago when my son was born but I haven’t lost any more hair from then. He said it is unusual but it can happen, so it’s obviously a testament, Matt, to keeping up the Zinc and doing the other things as well.

Matt: Yeah, exactly.

Jeff: And, your little Hair Serum which you make very rarely for me, which I had to…

Matt: Yeah, I have whenever you ask for it.

Jeff: Yeah, anyway.

Matt: Yeah, and then I wait six months and then do it.

Jeff: Yeah.

Matt: So, Alopecia, Acne, Hirsutism which is what we talked about with the dark hair and the whiskers and that sort of thing, Cardio Vascular Disease; it’s been linked in with Heart Diseases and hardening in the Arteries and that sort of stuff.

Jeff: What about the big beer belly, the Dad belly? We’ve spoken about this before.

Matt: Yeah.

Jeff: So, if DHT helps with Fat Loss what’s the deal then with the Fat around the Organs?

Matt: Again, it’s to do with ratios; if you get too much DHT then it actually starts preserving Visceral Fat around your Internal Organs, and that causes that deep fat behind the Abs, so we can see a lot of the body building guys who’ve got the round gut with the visible Abs but you know there’s Fat in behind there, that’s often DHT.

Jeff: Yeah.

Matt: DHT is also associated with a little pot belly, so if you get a resistant little pot of Subcutaneous Fat out the front that’s also associated with DHT, it’s usually isolated as a pocket straight at the front and accompanied with extra bloating because of the Visceral Fat accumulated behind it.

Jeff: So, most of the time guys. Normally in people’s heads with DHT they think guys.

Matt: Yeah, most people do.

Jeff: But, what about for girls Matt? So, you’re saying Cystic Acne as well, so obviously girls can get that?

Matt: Yeah.

Jeff: Hair loss, Alopecia for women?

Matt: In my Naturopath Clinic I reckon I’ve prescribed more Prostate formulas for women than I have for men.

Jeff: Why?

Matt: Because, the Prostate formulas have all the 5-Alphareductase inhibitors.

Jeff: Why do women need them?

Matt: Typically, what happens is, women with Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome or any other Insulin Resistant syndrome, women that struggle with Acne, women that struggle with Hirsutism, it’s all associated with this build-up of Androgens, and some women have just got that Androgenic body type where they’re predisposed to these sort of features. And, the same treatment that’s used for male Prostate Cancers is used in those women to actually block the DHT production that’s contributing to Acne, Hirsutism, Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome.
PCOS is an Insulin Resistant syndrome, and this is another interesting feature again, it’s one of those ones where it’s kind of controversial because the science hasn’t caught up yet, you know, the testing methods aren’t adequate used in the studies. But, with Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome it’s known as Insulin Resistant Syndrome, so they’ve got this Insulin Resistance issue happening where they’ve got too much Insulin floating around all the time, and Insulin blocks Aromatase, which converts Testosterone to Estrogen that matures the egg for ovulation, and that allows more of that Testosterone to accumulate and it zips down the other pathway and it makes Dihydrotestosterone.

Jeff: Yeah, of course. It makes sense.

Matt: And, that Dihydrotestosterone stops the egg from maturing, so they don’t tend to ovulate properly, so that little egg wanders its way to the edge of the ovum and just sticks there and then it becomes a cyst, and that’s how they make cysts, but those same people have got that same pathway happening all over their body which is why they’re predisposed to a potbelly, and Visceral Fat around the guts, and bloating around the gut. They’re also predisposed to the Acne, the Whiskers, the Cholesterol problems, the Heart Disease problems and all those sorts of things.

Jeff: Oh wow! So, it’s more than just aesthetic, it starts to get pretty dangerous.

Matt: Interestingly, they are now researching DHT thinking it may cause Insulin Resistance. So, this is the thing, the Insulin Resistant Syndrome, which is characterised by high levels of Insulin causing a build-up of Androgens, and in particular DHT, they now think that it could even come from the other way round, that you may have the DHT build up first and that eventually gets to a certain point where it stops Insulin from working. The end result is, most people find out they’ve got Polycystic Ovaries where all this stuff is happening. So, it’s very important not to just treat Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome as an Insulin Resistant Syndrome just in case they’re stuck in a vicious cycle where even if you fix the dietary stuff the DHT will still stuff around with the Insulin, so you have to treat the DHT stuff anyway.

Jeff: That makes sense. It’s funny, isn’t it, it’s about that whole chicken and the egg thing?

Matt: Yeah.

Jeff: I never really understood that, which comes first, the chicken or the egg. Well, how can an egg come?

Matt: Have you seen that chicken? Woa, hot. Those little legs.

Jeff: Anyway.

Matt: So, to fix DHT what you do is you do this; you’ve got to block the 5-Alphareductase Enzyme. You mentioned Saw Palmetto, that’s one tool, it’s a good one. You’re also a tool, but not such a good one.

Jeff: Depends on who you ask.

Matt: Yeah, well we don’t ask Toni this stuff, we aren’t spies.

Jeff: So, Zinc?

Matt: Zinc and Selenium, Lycopene…

Jeff: Yeah nice, tomato paste, definitely that’s up there.

Matt: And, watermelon. There’s a lot of Lycopene in watermelon; it’s red, so eat a lot of red stuff and you’ll get a lot of it. So, Zinc, Selenium, Lycopene, Saw Palmetto, Epilobium is another good one.

Jeff: What’s that found in? Is it a herb?

Matt: It’s a herb, and if you buy the Epilobium leaf tea you’ll typically find it in. But, my favourite ones are Tongkat Ali…

Jeff: Yeah, nice.

Matt: Fenugreek.

Jeff: Which is all in the ALPHA MARS.

Matt: Nettles. That’s why we add them into the ALPHA MARS because they work at a lower does than Saw Palmetto, so they’re very powerful, and they also work on the Aromatase Enzyme so we could go through and make a combination of Panax Ginseng, Tongkat Ali, Nettles, Fenugreek, and they will actually block off the 5-Alphareductase.

Jeff: Out of curiosity, Matt, why didn’t we add the Zinc into the MARS?

Matt: A couple of reasons: when you stack up a lot of products—we’ve got Zinc in a few other products that we make—but the thing is, some people take ALPHA MARS at varying doses, and trying to get the right dose of Zinc into a product like that is really, really hard. What you’re better off with…

Jeff: Right, but Zinc is critical, we need Zinc?

Matt: Yeah, Zinc is critical. If you’ve got a Zinc deficiency you’re just stuck. The hard bit was trying to work out how much Zinc to add per dose, and we also want to create a product separately that gives you the right amount of Zinc, and the thing is you need that Zinc on a daily basis.

Jeff: Well, I trade marked the name so long ago that I actually let it lapse for our Zinc product. We actually have the formula; we just haven’t released it yet.

Matt: Yeah, I know.

Jeff: But, we need to bring that out, Matt.

Matt: Yeah, I know, I know. And, to supplement with Zinc properly it’s a bit of a strategy, because Zinc binds to Phytates which is a common compound in herbal extracts. So, if you get Zinc combined with a lot of herbs they can all get stuck together so you’ve got to make sure you’re combining the Zinc with the right plant extracts, you can’t just have it mixed in with a whole heap of Phytates and Oxalates and that sort of stuff otherwise it binds.

Jeff: And, it’s funny, further to this conversation, we’ve been talking a lot about natural versus non-natural as well too. And, you’re saying for an acute affect Zinc Picolinate is the best one to use, but where out on this, aren’t we?

Matt: So, the thing is, okay, this is how it works. If you’re deficient in Zinc your body activates all these active transport pumps to suck more Zinc in really fast, and then as soon as your Zinc levels top up your absorption slows down. So, what you’ll find happening is, in certain cases like full blown Zinc Deficiency, things like Kryptopyroluria, other conditions where we need really high doses of Zinc for a particular function for a certain period of time, and we do a lot of that sort of stuff with cases of Autism and a lot with the athletes and all that as well. So, when you have a Zinc the way your body makes it ready to be absorbed is it makes it into a Picolinate form, so it uses Picolinic Acids and that from the Pancreas to make Zinc Picolinate in your intestine and then your body absorbs it as Zinc Picolinate.

Jeff: Bio available?

Matt: Yeah, it’s ready to go, it goes straight through. So, if you supplement with Zinc Picolinate it finds it easier to go straight through, otherwise what you’re relying on is your body having a state dependent effect with your Zinc absorption depending on how much your body wants it. So, when you’re Deficient it will suck it all through, as your levels top up it will slow down. So, in most cases all you want is a nice natural form of Zinc that you can take on a regular basis, if you’re a bit low it will suck a little bit extra in, as your levels top up it doesn’t bother bringing more in. Because, if you take high doses of Zinc Picolinate and that sort of stuff long term what can happen is, because Zinc is also known as a Chelating Agent, so Zinc will bind to positively charged compounds like Calcium, Magnesium, Iron, as well as bad things like Lead and Aluminium and that sort of stuff.

Jeff: Well, that’s cool.

Matt: We use Zinc to strip our body of heavy metals but it will also strip out a lot of other Trace Minerals.

Jeff: Yeah, I knew that Zinc had a bad relationship with Calcium, like you shouldn’t have your ZMA tablets with a glass of milk or protein before going to bed because you’re going to inhibit the uptake.

Matt: Yeah, exactly. And, that’s what you’re looking at, if you take high doses of Zinc long term you can cause all sorts of chaos within your system by binding and eliminating other compounds that you need. So, you would only ever do a Zinc Picolinate 50 milligrams for a very short period of time just to top it up.

Jeff: For an acute problem?

Matt: No, just to go through and increase your Zinc load. To correct a deficiency or to produce a particular function for a short period of time.

Jeff: Yeah, that makes sense.

Matt: Like what we do with the Zinc/Magnesium combinations we also do to make sure people aren’t deficient in Zinc for Seleno-enzymes that control Thyroid Function and all that sort of stuff, or during an Acute Infection where you want to use the Zinc to make the Immune System go stupid and work faster. So, in those sorts of things you do a chemical or a synthetic form of Zinc that’s found in a high dose, not a natural form of Zinc. But, for maintenance and for just about everything else and for general trying to be the best you can be, you want a food source of Zinc to trickle through on a regular basis.

Jeff: What’s better than Brazil Nuts?

Matt: There are a few things, which I’ll tell you…

Jeff: Is there? Go on tell me.

Matt: No, I’m not going to tell you now. You wait to see what we release.

Jeff: Okay, cool. So, don’t spoil it?

Matt: Don’t spoil it.

Jeff: Spoiler alert.

Matt: Yeah.

Jeff: Alright. So Matt, we need Zinc, Zinc is obviously critical.

Matt: Yeah.

Jeff: I know Lou Ferringo said for guys Zinc is that anabolic Hormone, really important for Muscle Growth, really important for Skin, the Immune System.

Matt: Well, the way I used to describe it in the Clinic when people used to ask what Zinc is, it’s involved in so many different enzymes in your body that pretty much every time you want to build something or pull something apart it is using Zinc as a cofactor, so it’s so essential for so many different things. And, you know when I said for the Immune System it’s really handy to use high doses of it, the actual antennas on our Immune Cells that they use to pick up on the signals to say, “We have an infection,” are Zinc dependent.

Jeff: Oh wow!

Matt: If you don’t have Zinc then your Immune System doesn’t even know that you’re roaming around with a bug inside you. But, the funny thing is, as you dose up on Zinc the amount of those antennas on your Immune Cells that you have actually increase dose dependently. So, you can try to force as much Zinc in as possible over a couple of days, and your Immune System—I can’t remember the stats, and I should have found this beforehand, but it’s something like—I can’t remember, but a massive dose of Zinc is increasing your Immune Cell activity by like 50 times.

Jeff: Actually, I think I do remember you saying that.

Matt: By 5000% or something stupid like that.

Jeff: Matt, we’ve got a little bit off track from DHT.

Matt: No, well Zinc is a major part of it. The importance of Zinc for DHT, and we’re talking about herbs that block 5-Alphareductase, but if you have a Zinc Deficiency you can’t block 5-Alphareductase.

Jeff: You’re stuffed, yeah.

Matt: And, it’s interesting too, you know how I said Zinc is a Chelating Agent, what you’ll find happening is, the things that it Chelates are often things that drive 5-Alphareductase. For example; Cadmium toxicity is a major trigger for DHT over dose.

Jeff: What’s Cadmium?

Matt: Cadmium is a poison, it’s a heavy metal sort of thing, but it comes out of a lot of burning of fossil fuels, it comes out of a lot of industry, it’s used in a lot of poisons and that sort of stuff as well. Peanuts are a really high source of Cadmium, isn’t that interesting?

Jeff: Really?

Matt: Where you get a lot of Zinc and that out of nuts and seeds, but peanuts in particular, what they do is, you know how peanuts grow under the ground?

Jeff: Yeah.

Matt: So, they do a line of Cadmium under the ground, under the peanuts, so that way as these things are grown it poisons everything before it gets to the peanuts and then the peanuts soak up a lot of the Cadmium. They can’t really spray them because they’re underground.

Jeff: This sounds awesome!

Matt: Yeah, doesn’t it. So, they’re really high—and, the funny thing is, I didn’t know that until I had a bloke come through with Prostate Cancer once and we did the testing and that sort of stuff and he showed up high in Cadmium and he says, “That’s from all those peanuts.”

Jeff: Was he a high peanut eater?

Matt: And, I said, “What’s that got to do with peanuts?” and he said, “I used to work for a pesticide company and used to sell all the Cadmium to the peanut farmers at Kingaroy.

Jeff: Geez.

Matt: It’s amazing, yeah, the little things you find out. But anyway, Zinc can’t work without Selenium, so it’s good to supplement with the both of them.

Jeff: What’s Selenium naturally found in in nature, Matt?

Matt: The same sort of things as Zinc, they’re usually found together.

Jeff: Tomato?

Matt: No, nuts and seeds and grains and that sort of stuff.

Jeff: Oh, what about Lycopene? So, nothing in the tomato then?

Matt: Yeah, Lycopene is in tomatoes.

Jeff: You can tell we’re doing this podcast in the afternoon, can’t you?

Matt: Oh Mate, and I smashed out so many chicken wings at lunch time, because that Buffalo Wing place was open and just did—I felt bad today. I went stupid really, I did, it was like I was in a competition all with myself. Half way through it my eyes went blurry and I just kept—I think I was so full I was either pushing on my optic nerve or had a chicken wing in my eye. That’s how fast I was eating them too, I could have easily had a chicken wing in my eye and not even noticed.

Jeff: Right. So, Selenium is found in nuts as well too?

Matt: Yeah.

Jeff: That’s where we’re going?

Matt: That’s where we’re going. Fenugreek, Tongkat Ali, Panax, Nettles, Saw Palmetto, Epilobium, they’re all good 5-Alphareductase inhibitors. The pharmaceutical ones do the same sort of thing, they’re just a little bit more effective for tissue distribution, so you’ve just got to get the dose right. And, the big thing is, when you’re looking at the scalp and stuff like that taking stuff orally is not always getting there, is it?

Jeff: No, that’s true.

Matt: So, that’s the problem. So, they’ll go and talk about a drug that does penetrate out to the scalp and that sort of stuff compared to something like Saw Palmetto that may not have the same tissue distribution, but there’s no reason why you can’t use it topically.

Jeff: Right?

Matt: Yeah, you can use a lot of this stuff topically. I’m not giving away my secrets to my hair serum. You’re trying to get me to tell all my secrets! What’s wrong with you? You’re supposed to be the smart business guy here.

Jeff: I just want you to make some, that’s all I want.

Matt: There’s some in the bloody kitchen.

Jeff: There is not.

Matt: Yeah.

Jeff: Oh, well that’s gone. Anyway, Mattie, is there anything else on DHT that we need to discuss?

Matt: Yeah, it links in with a lot of the Cancers. For women, you know if you’ve got a problem with it if you don’t find any problem losing weight except for an area around your gut and abdomen and a potbelly, if you’re predisposed to Acne, if the hair on your arms tends to get a bit thicker and darker—unless you’ve got a hairy back and a beard, that’s a dead giveaway—and, if you’re starting to thin out where a male would typically get Male Pattern Baldness, so if you’re starting to thin out around there.

Jeff: Just shut up.

Matt: What? I’m not saying anything. And, I’ll tell you something else that’s interesting about it, that I find fascinating, because the powers that be will lead you to believe that Testosterone is evil, because they say, “Testosterone of Androgens cause the Prostate Cancer and they cause all these things,” but what you’ll find if you have a look at basic boring stuff like Hormonal Profiles for children compared to puberty compared to adult male, compared to elderly and Andropause, what happens is, kids and babies have got negligible levels of Testosterone, but as you hit puberty it’s almost all Testosterone, there’s almost no DHT except for those kids who get the bad Acne and stuff, but that’s happening in that tissue. And, even in those people their blood tests showed no DHT, so it’s in their tissue they’re building up DHT, typically from eating too much sugar and that sort of stuff.

Jeff: That’s so funny, I remember growing up I had quite bad skin and I knew that sugar was causing the problem because I would binge out on some sugars, and the doctor was, “It absolutely has nothing to do with what you’re eating.” Even at that age I knew that he was wrong.

Matt: Yeah, because Insulin blocks the conversion of Testosterone to Estrogen, which will keep the skin nice and soft, like mine, you see?

Jeff: No.

Matt: And, then you block that and it goes down to Dihydrotestosterone and you get the Acne. Notice those same kids that have the Acne are the ones that tend to get the voice cracking earlier, some weird whiskers and that stuff. It’s just bizarre, they didn’t necessarily have the full Testosterone changes throughout their body but they had it in localised areas, and that’s what I talk about with a Paracrine Hormone, it’s actually not working like a systemic hormone, it’s just little hormonal effects in little isolated parts of the body, and that’s a classic sign of DHT, but systemically throughout the body they’ve got almost none. And, as you become an adult your DHT starts to increase but still, it’s only about one tenth of that of your Testosterone in your bloodstream but depending on your diet and those sorts of things, you can still have little isolated pockets of DHT activity.

But, what’s really wild is around Menopause or Andropause—and Andropause is just the male version of Menopause—so in both men and women, their Testosterone levels decline, the DHT in these isolated tissues stays the same; sometimes it goes higher…

Jeff: Exaggerating effects?

Matt: Yeah. So, basically, what happens is, because the Testosterone drops the ratios between Testosterone and the DHT change significantly, they’re competing for the same receptors, so all of a sudden these receptors are bombarded by a very strong and active form which is why Prostate Cancer and those sorts of Cardiovascular Disease—and, they think there might be a link in with Alzheimer’s and that as well…

Jeff: Bugger off.

Matt: Yeah, and all those sorts of things are happening in the elderly as their Testosterone declines and Dihydrotestosterone takes off.

Jeff: Huh. So, Zinc, ALPHA MARS—I mean it’s got a lot of the 5-Alphareductase—I mean obviously for looking good, feeling healthy, making sure your Testosterone is…

Matt: So, just take ALPHA MARS and load up on Zinc and Selenium.

Jeff: And, some Brazil Nuts and some tomato paste, and Bob’s your uncle.

Matt: I’m glad you said tomato paste, because Lycopene, you can’t kill Lycopene through cooking, processing, it’s still there even after you’ve boiled the buggery out of it. So, you’re only allowed to put—in Australia, anyway, the TGA only allow you to put in the tiniest amount of Lycopene into a product compared to how much you can get out of a tablespoon of tomato paste or thing of watermelon juice; watermelon juice is looking really good for Lycopene.

Jeff: Is that right?

Matt: Yeah, it’s pretty cool. So, you can load up that way. But, you’ll find what Lycopene is, it’s actually a Carotenoid, so most of those other products that are full of Vitamin A like compounds that are very rich dark green, and dark orange colours, they’re the ones you want. So, load up on Lycopene, nuts and seeds, so Brazil nuts, tomato paste like you’re saying, and a tablespoon of tomato paste has got about the same amount used in the studies so that’s enough to get you through.

And, as we’ve mentioned in previous podcasts all the benefits of Testosterone. So, if we can block the conversion of Testosterone to Dihydrotestosterone we’re protecting against the bad effects of Dihydrotestosterone at the same time as we’re preserving our natural levels of Testosterone, which is good for the other beneficial effects, Muscle, Bone, healthy everything else.

Jeff: Strength, Vitality, Energy, all that stuff.

Matt: Yeah. The only other thing about DHT I wanted to mention is that it’s effects in the brain are full on. I mentioned it may be linked in with Alzheimer’s and other forms of Dementia and that sort of thing, but interestingly, DHT is the compound responsible for the Roid Rage that you see in the Steroid abuse and that sort of stuff. You’ll also see DHT build up causing a lot of Anger, and Bitterness and Frustration; it causes an Irrational Anger, it makes people a bit nutso, and that’s a common sign with the midlife crisis and that sort of stuff.

Also, it’s linked in with Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome. So, Anger and Frustration. If you’re looking at someone talking about their Premenstrual Dysphoric Disorders, which is what they basically say is Premenstrual tension. So, PMS or PMT, because that’s insinuating that you just can’t handle the stress or you’ve just got too much tension, so I think they then called it Dysphoric Disorders to make it sound a bit flasher.

Jeff: Well, I mean I’ve had a pretty stressful month, Matt. That’s terrible.

Matt: Do not compare yourself, Jeff. You do not know the pain, emotional, physical, just a killer, Mate.

Jeff: Well, I have to put up with you Matt.

Matt: Now, listen, I’m trying to tell you that DHT makes people Angry.

Jeff: Yes, obviously.

Matt: So, basically, it can make you Angry…

Jeff: For guys that are using Steroids…

Matt: Yes?

Jeff: …and, high amount of them, some of them are DHT derived. Now, I’m not an expert but Stanozolol, I think, is one, there’s Tri-something, I can’t remember, it’s been such a long time since I looked into it, but some of them are actually based from DHT. They take them because guys feel it makes them hard, they get a really hard dense Muscle, they increase in strength as well too. But, for the average punter that’s out there that doesn’t want that, especially with the negative side effects, because the body builders that I knew that took it said, “Yeah, I’m going to go troppo for about the next month,” because they take the stuff and they do, their rage gets out of control. They’ll build more Muscle though–if they were only using Steroids, Matt, they’ll build more Muscle if they actually take the 5-Alphareductase in there because it will stop the conversion of the DHT and any of the negative side effects on the Prostate and all that.
Matt: But, that’s already DHT isn’t it?

Jeff: Yeah, but I’m talking about if they took straight Testosterone as opposed to the DHT..

Matt: Oh yeah.

Jeff: So, if they’re taking like Sustanon 250 or an anthate, or any of those things, it will inhibit more of the negative side effects associated with Steroids, like Balding, Prostate, and other things like that.

Matt: So, if it’s that side of 5-Alphareductase then definitely.

Jeff: What’s that side?

Matt: Well, if you’re on the Testosterone side then you can inhibit the conversion of Testosterone to DHT.

Jeff: So, you could either use less or get more bang for your buck, effectively?

Matt: Exactly.

Jeff: But, the same with natural Testosterone production in the body as well, too, obviously?

Matt: Absolutely.

Jeff: So, all I’m trying to say is, for our friends out there, and it’s legal in many parts of the world where the podcast goes out to, and for those that it’s not that’s your business, but in terms of inhibiting negative effects, Matt, take your Brazil Nuts, take your Lycopene, get on the ALPHA MARS as well too.
Matt: If you want to block the effects of this Androgen use DIM. So, if it gets bad enough and you want to correct these symptoms and not just tolerate them or prevent them, if you’re at that point where your Depression and your Anger and that sort of stuff is at a point where you need treatment for it then one of the most effective ways of blocking Testosterone and Dihydrotestosterone is DIM, Diindolylmethane.

Jeff: So, basically, if your Testosterone is too much you’ve got Roid Rage and you’re about to lose your girlfriend, wife or whatever, get on the DIM because it will actually detoxify the Testosterone and bring you into a more normal level.

Matt: Yeah, it will cancel out the effects of the Testosterone for Muscle Growth and all that sort of stuff but it will give you a quick way of getting you back to normal.

Jeff: Yeah, but if you are doing okay or if you think that you might want to just take the edge off a little bit then go for your 5-Alphareductase with your Selenium, Zinc, your Lycopene and something like ALPHA MARS with all those 5-Alphareductase herbs in it.

Matt: Yeah, absolutely.

Jeff: Now, for women as well, obviously they don’t, typically, unless they’re Post-Menopausal they don’t want to take the ALPHA MARS, Matt, but they can search out those ingredients individually and take the Zinc as well too, and the Selenium.

Matt: Yeah, well like I was saying, a lot of the male over 50 Prostate formula sort of things, the Saw Palmetto—a typical formula will be made up of Saw Palmetto, Zinc, or Pumpkin Seed or something like that; Pumpkin Seeds are really high in Zinc and they’ve got some other stuff for the Urinary Tract so that’s why they throw them in there. But, yeah as I said, I think I’ve sold more Saw Palmetto in my history as a Naturopath for Acne and Cystic Ovaries than I ever have for Prostate.

Jeff: Alright. Have we covered it, Matt?

Matt: Yeah, I think so.

Jeff: Have we done a good job?

Jeff: Alright, Matt. FAQs.

Lindsay—and I’m not even going to try and pronounce the last name.

Matt: Codwallis.

Jeff: “Hi, a huge fan of the podcast. I’ve learnt a lot from the two of you and must admit your knowledge around Hormones helped me coax back my body to a Hormonal Balance. After having an Ovarian Torsion 1.5 years ago requiring removal of the right Ovary I suffered what I felt like Menopausal symptoms for almost a year. I’m in my mid-twenties. My question for you is, I’m a very athletic person with an athletic build, my upper body doesn’t hold much fat, I have toned arms and a flat tummy but my thighs and buttock area, no matter what I do, is much larger; I have a definite pear shape. My legs have Muscle but seem to hold fat in these female areas, especially my thighs. What product would you recommend for me? Keeping in mind I don’t want to do anything to throw my body out of the Hormonal Stasis I feel I’ve finally got into. Of note, I still require the use of natural Progesterone cream at the later part of my cycles to address Progesterone Deficiency. Thanks for your time and endless great advice, cheers Mates.”

I’ve got a feeling she’s from The States. Thanks Lindsay. Mattie, it’s interesting, on the way here I was listening to the radio and it’s amazing actually, I didn’t realise or I’ve probably forgotten just how emotional and upset people can get when they start talking about body shape, especially women. We obviously were talking with Em, Emily Skye about this as well, the whole body shame thing and all the rest of it. And, I just want to say this because it kind of makes me upset in way; there’s judgement happening both ways, there seems to be judgement happening of people who are overweight, and a lot of that comes down to disease and sickness, a lot of it comes down to not having education, it’s not just because they’re lazy and they’re fat and they’re eating their Tim Tams or Oreos if you’re in The States on the couch, and some of it might be. But, then there’s the reverse happening as well, too, people that are fit and healthy and they’re not happy with the way things are, they’re looking to change things, and they’re told, “That’s you way you are, just leave it.” I don’t believe that to be the case with the way that things have gone with the pesticides, the poisons, all the things we’re bombarded with, I believe that we have changed, we used to be more athletic because we lived in an agrarian society, we exercised more, now we’re sitting all the time. So, anyway, it’s just interesting, Matt, to see the emotions that surround this at the moment, there’s a bit of it hitting in the news as well, too, and I just find it frustrating to tell you the truth. It means anybody trying to improve themselves, trying at attain the figure they want, they’re almost being told, “Don’t, because you’re being shallow and you’re judging other people.”

Matt: And, “You’re upsetting the others that have different priorities.”

Jeff: So, let’s set the bar lower. It’s almost like a Communist mentality, everybody should be sick and in a diseased state because more people are there now, that is now the norm, so anybody outside of the norm…

Matt: You know, it’s not—Mate, half the time we have a conversation it leads into me thinking of different conspiracies and things, and you might have hit the nail on the head there. The powers that be want us to be sick, they want us to not be—the funniest thing is…

Jeff: Where is the most amount of money made? In the wars, and also in treating sickness.

Matt: Yeah. But, the funny thing is, in a clinical situation, when you sit down and you talk with someone that comes in and says, “Right, I want to lose weight,” or something like that, or, “I want to kill myself because I’m so overweight, and my body image is—they will even talk about how they see these things in magazines and that and they get upset because they want that, or they don’t want what they’ve got.

Jeff: Or, they feel like they’re being judged for not being that way, as well.

Matt: Yeah.

Jeff: And, as I said, first off you’ve got to love yourself.

Matt: Everyone’s got their own journey…

Jeff: Exactly.

Matt: …and, the big point is, it just depends on priorities, it seriously depends on, “What is your priority? Do you live for a long time? Do you want to live for a short time and happy? Do you want to live a long time miserable? Do you want to live just for your children?” you know, it’s just all to do with priorities, and people have got to stop looking around and comparing themselves to other things. I think it’s a matter of looking inside. If you ask these people, if you just stop and ask these people, “Forget about everything, what do you want?”

Jeff: Yeah, exactly.

Matt: Like, “What do you want? What do you think will make you happy?” and then the next question to ask them is, “Now, reflect on that answer and ask, is that decision based on short term happiness or short term pleasure or long term happiness?” And, then you have to ask yourself the next question, “What is my priority? Short term pleasure or long term happiness?” Because, if you’re sitting there trying to—because, a lot of people will say, “I just want to be happy,” and so, “Okay, for you what is that? Is that the rush you get when you eat the wrong thing, or is that the rush you get when you go to the gym? Or, is long term happiness for you watching your children grow up and graduating and getting married?”

Jeff: Being fit and healthy and enjoying life in your 70s, 80s, and 90s and beyond, and living a high quality of life, not in a hospice, you know, all those things.

Matt: Yeah, let’s freak out the whole situation now and talk about something like Sarcopenic Obesity, which is where you fit into the BMI perfectly because you are light for your height, but if you’ve got no Muscle you get the same age related disorders as someone that is overweight obese, except you get them sooner and you die faster. So, these people will go through and say, “You’re sick because you’re large,” but if you’ve got predominantly Subcutaneous Fat and a good Muscle Mass you may be healthier than someone who’s got the right BMI because they’ve got no Muscle. But, the skinny person will die first.

Jeff: Yeah, I know.

Matt: And, a lot of the times in my clinic when I had some of these overweight people coming through saying, “I’ve been told because of my BMI I’m morbidly obese or something like that,” and they tell you what they’ve been doing to lose the weight, and you realise they’ve been training like a demon, they’re fit as a bloody fiddle. All their blood tests are showing up awesome. They’ve got Subcutaneous Fat which is contributing no fat back to their bloodstream, which means it’s hard to burn, it won’t budge, but it’s not bad for your health.

Jeff: Yeah.

Matt: Now, that person might be healthier than someone that just has Skinny Fat.

Jeff: Looks normal, looks even maybe skinny?

Matt: Well, they could look great, they could be a model, could look like a perfect coat hanger, but there’s no Muscle there so they get the aged related disorders early.

Now, if you relate that back to Lindsay’s case; if you look at it, the Fat on a woman’s Thighs…

Jeff: And, I wanted to say to Lindsay as well, that was just licking at this as well, and I appreciate…

Matt: Licking at it?

Jeff: Looking. Where you’re coming from, obviously, Lindsay you want to make a change, and it just sparked off that memory.

Matt: No, we were talking about it earlier, the body dysmorphia thing and how weird it is that people who are actually on their own journey to be healthy and fit are getting attacked by people who choose not to have that same journey, saying, “You’re making me feel bad.” That’s stupid.

Jeff: So, how can we help Lindsay, Matt?

Matt: The point I want to make, too, because it just sparked a memory, it’s important to know. If you’re lean around the middle and your upper body is fine, if your body holds Fat on your Hips and Thighs, and it is just Subcutaneous Fat, that Fat doesn’t contribute much too bad disease, that Fat doesn’t contribute to Heart Disease, Diabetes and stuff like that. If that Fat was all around your Internal Organs and you had no Fat on your Legs and Bootie, then you’re actually sicker. But, what we’re talking about here is someone’s right to choose how they want to look, and that’s where we help people, because we believe everyone deserves the right to live a happy and healthy life.

Jeff: No matter what that looks like.

Matt: Yeah, exactly. And, if you choose for you to be healthy and happy and you want to look a certain way then there’s tools for that, you know. You’ve just got to respect the tool and understand how they work. For example; in this case if Lindsay doesn’t want to screw around too much with Hormones, she’s happy using the Progesterone cream, she’s got a bit of Hormonal balance. When you were reading through I was thinking, “This person needs to use ALPHA VENUS,” because ALPHA VENUS helps to detoxify the extra Estrogen that holds Fat and Fluid on the thighs, it also helps with the integrity and the quality of the Ovaries and the other structural parts of the reproductive tract and will help to increase Progesterone production. But, in doing so it will screw around with the Hormones a little bit.

Jeff: Yeah, right.

Matt: So, if you didn’t want to do that and you just wanted to make some change and what you’ve got, everything is working, you’re Burning Fat, your Metabolism is good, your athletic, everything is fine, but you just can’t move the Subcutaneous Fat because your body has forgotten it’s there or whatever, then you use a combination of SUBCUT and BLOCK E3. Be aware that what we’re doing with the SUBCUT, in particular, is we’re helping your body to liberate that Stored Fat where it’s protected, safe, sitting just on your bum, good for cushioning, good for insulation, and not bad for Heart Disease, into your bloodstream where it can contribute to production of Visceral Fat, if you don’t burn it, or contribute to Fat in your bloodstream, which is what causes Heart Disease, Diabetes, and that sort of things.

Jeff: So, if you move it you’ve got to lose it?

Matt: Yeah, exactly. So, if you are wanting to use something like SUBCUT and BLOCK E3 to mobilise the Fat out of your Legs then you need to be doing that in conjunction with some sort of a diet and exercise program to make sure that you’re actually burning it. Which is sounds like she’s doing anyway.

Jeff: I was going to say that, I think, actually, Lindsay is just getting frustrated with some Hormones, the way that her body stores Fat, obviously she’s got some Hormonal issues there that she’s working with.

Matt: Yeah.

Jeff: What I’ll do is I’ll send her out the ALPHA VENUS, SUBCUT and BLOCK E, and Lindsay, go and talk to your doctor about the ALPHA VENUS. Have a look at the product, because as Matt says, it does naturally with the Chaste Berry…

Matt: The Vitex.

Jeff: …the Vitex, it has an impact on the Progesterone production, which again may or may not interfere with what you’re on.

Matt: Mm. Otherwise just use the BLOCK E3 and the SUBCUT.

Jeff: Well, I’ve sent her everything anyway, and then that way eventually if she comes off it she can use it, and if the doctor says, “No, for now,” well give it to one of your girlfriends.

Matt: Yeah, do that.

Jeff: Lindsay, let us know how you get on. And, by the way, that rant at the beginning that was just talking about this whole ability to choose what your body looks like that I respect and this is what’s upsetting me, this whole PC thing at the moment where if you’re not like everybody else you’re getting absolutely hammered for it. The pendulum’s swung too far, people who are overweight, people were dogging and ragging on them, and now it’s like Emily who was in here the other day who got absolutely eviscerated by bloody journalists because they’re saying, “You’re making fat women feel bad about themselves because you’re skinny.” Anyway, that’s Emily Skye who we’ve got an interview with coming up shortly.

Matt: That’s funny. I’m going to get Richard Branson on here and get mad at him because he makes me feel bad because he’s got so much money compared to me.

Jeff: He’s got so much money. Bastard.

Matt: He should be happy with no money and just be like me.

Jeff: Yeah, what about Oscar Pistorius, I probably make him upset with the size of my calves, but he’s probably about the only person I’d make upset with that.

Alright, this one is from Samara: “Hi guys, I’m a long time ATP Science user, I use CORT RX and ALPHA PRIME, but a new tribe member. It seems I get sick all the time from every bug and flu. I do work hard, sometimes long, seven days a week. I have a full time job and also have a side business which takes up a lot of my time. I hardly drink however when I do end up sick, and it can be anything from a common cold to flu to tonsillitis and laryngitis. Training wise I run four kilometres to work every morning, I train hard for about an hour depending on the day, I mix it up and hit with high intensity training, yoga and weight sessions, and I walk four kilometres home. I do this six times a week despite my busy schedule and always make my training. Diet is clean with a cheap meal, but weirdly enough I hardly poop unless I have a coffee. Sorry about the overshare.” No, that’s fine. “And, I do find myself bloated a lot, with standard Hormone breakouts and painful periods even while using the ALPHA PRIME. I have made an effort to get at least seven hours sleep most nights, and I do not take any fitness supplements. I’ve had every doctor test under the sun like a flipping finger up the bum and everything, and they have all come back healthy as a horse.

A weird Vitamin D Deficiency. I’m about to start seeking advice from a Naturopath, because as hard as I train and eat my weight loss has plateaued, it’s soul destroying. I’ve upped my Cardio and started cycling Carbs which seems to have helped a bit. It does worry me, I can’t just keep pumping out more hours training and I’m worried again for my health. I’m currently battling another virus. I couldn’t even get out of bed on Monday. I’m a person who suffers from horrible Fluid Retention and skin problems when stressed, and it sucks, which is also why I incorporate yoga into my training now.

Love some advice on how to boost my Immunity and also how to take the handbrake off my weight loss. I feel like I’m working my arse off and just hitting a wall. Also, your podcast rocks my socks. Thanks for being so generous with your knowledge, Samara.”

It’s funny, Matt, again you give me the hammer of the Zinc and of course everything freaking looks like a hammer, but I’m not going to stray down your path Matt. Obviously, it might be a bit more complicated than that, but what do you think?

Matt: Zinc would help. If you threw Zinc in it would definitely help with the skin breakouts, it’s associated with Insulin imbalances and that sort of stuff as well.

Jeff: What type of Zinc, Zinc Picolinate do you reckon?

Matt: Oh, whatever. Chelated Zinc or a Zinc Picolinate or nuts and seeds and dietary forms of Zinc. It’s an interesting case this, actually, because she says she hardly drinks and when she does she gets sick and all those sorts of things, that’s associated with the way the Liver processes the alcohol and you get a build-up of this stuff, Acetaldehyde, that overwhelms the Immune System, and that links also with the fact that coffee helps her poop, because that actually gets that Collagog effect, gets the bile flowing, and that’s often why they used traditionally…

Jeff: Coffee enemas?

Matt: You always go there. I was actually about to say having a cup of coffee with desert to help the Gall Bladder cut through the Fats, so having a cup of coffee with a high Fat meal helps to cut through because of the flow of the Gall Bladder.

Jeff: Well, see I always just try…

Matt: Shove it up your arse, is that what you’re going to say?

Jeff: Well, I say that to you a lot.

Matt: What?

Jeff: Shove it up your arse.

Matt: So, what you’re looking at is trying to balance out the Phase 1 and Phase 2 Liver detoxification pathways. CORT RX is really good for that, so keep taking that. Also, the other thing that happens when you train a lot, if you’ve got a hyper reactive Adrenal the Cortisol will be high and that suppresses the Immune System, so again the CORT RX. So, keep taking it but I’d be inclined to use the one CORT RX three times a day, so I’d be using a steady dose throughout the day to try to keep all of this innate defence mechanisms up a little bit. Load up on Zinc, or Zinc foods, and one of the other things that I would throw in is the AMP V; send her out an AMP V because the CLA component of the AMP V is very powerful at blocking Cortisol’s Immunosuppressive effects, and also very powerful at controlling the Inflammatory actions on the Mucous Membranes that contribute to our first line of defence, that looks after our Immune System and all that sort of stuff. So, throw in the AMP V and keep using the CORT RX, but use the CORT RX three times a day and then load up on Zinc.

Jeff: What about the PRIME Matt, would you go to the VENUS or would you keep on the PRIME?

Matt: The only reason I’d think about moving from the PRIME to the VENUS would be because of that one mention of the Acne, and if you have too much Androgens you’ll start to build up Acne a little bit, but the PRIME is also really cool at keeping Cortisol under control. So, you could probably throw in a VENUS.

Jeff: Half of one, six of the other. Okay, well I’ll throw in a VENUS.

Matt: What I’d do is, if you were one of our athletes and were in the office, or if Jeff’s going to send them out for free, I would do one CORT RX three times a day, and I’d do two PRIME before bed.

Jeff: Cool. Well I’ll throw out a VENUS, Samara’s already got the PRIME, so she can do that protocol.

Matt: Yeah.

Jeff: Alright, so we’ll send her out a CORT RX, AMP V, ALPHA VENUS.

Matt: Yeah, do that. Oh, and I forgot to tell you, do the VENUS in the morning, so do two VENUS in the morning, two PRIME at night, one CORT RX three times a day, take the AMP before you go for your runs and walks.

Jeff: Cool. Done.

Matt: She’ll be a finely tuned athlete.

Jeff: Well, hopefully that helps Samara.

Matt: You’ll be rattling like ATP.

Jeff: This one is from Darren: “Hi Gents, thanks for the bottle of AMP V, I gave it to my training partner and now he is hooked. I really like your holistic approach to health and would love some advice on your products. I’m a Steroid user and want to stay as healthy as possible while feeding my addiction. I’m 40 years old and have decided not to cycle on and off but to stay on 100 milligrams of Test per week between cycles, eight weeks on, 500 milligrams of Test and eight weeks 100 milligrams of Test. Sometimes I will take Nandrolone,” which is like Deca Durabolin.

Matt: Oh yeah.

Jeff: “And, then went on anabol too. Can you please give me a list of your products and anything else you think I should take? Thanks Darren.”

How funny is this? I never read these questions, very rarely do I usually read them, and here’s two questions, one on Zinc and the other one bloody on Steroids that we’re talking about.

Matt: Yeah, I know, it’s freaky.

Jeff: So, what do you think Matt?

Matt: Definitely use the ALPHA MARS because the ALPHA MARS is going to help control the pathways the Test is going to go down.

Jeff: Well, I know that Nandralone, and if I’m correct, but forgive me if I’m wrong, Darren, it’s been a while, but Deca Durabolin can also give you something called Deca Dick, Matt. Some people have it if they don’t have enough Test. Now, it looks like he’s taking Test, but that can cause a problem where they can’t get it up.

Matt: The ALPHA MARS usually solves that problem.

Jeff: Well, we did have an athlete who’s winning bloody everything at the moment, we should have signed the Bastard, but anyway, who absolutely swears by it while he’s on his cycle, he reckons it improves performance.

Matt: Turn him into a teenager, he reckons.

Jeff: And, the wife was really complaining because even though he was on gear he wasn’t interested in sex whatsoever, he couldn’t get it up.

Matt: And, normally at that stage he’d be impotent. And, even the other athletes that we formerly worked with, the older guys were saying they could get away with 75% less gear combining with things like ALPHA MARS.

Jeff: And, the PROTOTYPE.

Matt: Yeah. Well, I’ll be getting to the PROTOTYPE. So, definitely use ALPHA MARS, two of those twice a day, and again, load up on Zinc and Selenium, look at things like Lycopene…

Jeff: This podcast is probably…

Matt: Freaky, eh?

Jeff: Yeah, it is. ALPHA MARS, yeah.

Matt: It’s as if Elsa knew what was going on, maybe.

Jeff: Well it’s funny because we were talking about what topic we were going to talk on just before we came in here and we went through about eight, and we went, “You know what, we’ve sort of touched on DHT but never really. So, anyway.

Matt: Yeah, that’s cool. One thing, Darren, you’ll be really interested in knowing about are the Anabolic effects of the Phytoecty Steroids in the PROTOTYPE 8 product. Phytoecty Sterones have been shown to be as potent an Anabolic Agent as such things as Dianabol, but more potent than things like IGF, DHT and Testosterone, and it does it by activating an Estrogen Receptor in your Muscle. Now, don’t freak out when I say Activation of an Estrogen Receptor. This Estrogen Receptor in Muscle is extremely important for the ability to dump Sugar into your Muscles and Protein into your Muscles and Fat into your Muscles for Growth. It doesn’t contribute to the negative effects of Estrogen in Fat, and it has no effect on blood levels of Hormones. What it’s doing is, it’s going in—just like we talk about SERMS and that sort of stuff, it’s actually working as a SERM. So, it’s a selective Estrogen Receptor modifier, Estrogen Receptor Beta, it drives that and it’s the most potent Anabolic switch that they’ve been able to find.
It’s interesting because that is a major thing associated with the reason why people from mid 30s onwards really struggle to build Muscle Mass, in particular, and the Glutes, the Quads and that sort of stuff.

Jeff: The Hammies, yeah.

Matt: Yeah, the Hammies. And, this Estrogenic Receptor activation through the Phytoecty Sterones could definitely do it. Talking to a lot of other coaches out there that work with body builders they’ll say the big problem with Antiestrogens is how it flattens that Muscle out, so definitely look at the PROTOTYPE 8, and throw some of that in, send him that too.

Jeff: Yeah, alright, so PROTOTYPE 8, ALPHA MARS, we’ll flick that out to you and you can give that a crack, Darren.

Matt, we’ve got a couple more to go but I might save some of these over for next week and we might sign it off there.

Matt: Do it. Don’t let fear hold you back.

Jeff: Thanks guys for listening. Matt, last word? Anything you want to add?

Matt: No.

Jeff: No? Matt, here we go, we’ve got a lot of Americans coming through and they have a bit of a laugh at us, I can tell that first one it was, “Cheers Mates,” you know, which is kind of cute, unless she is Australian, in which case I’ve completely ballsed it up. But, if I say ‘tinny’ to you…

Matt: Huh?

Jeff: This is the English language right? So, we’re talking and we say ‘tinny’, what do you think of when I say ‘tinny’?

Matt: I think of two things, a boat or a beer.

Jeff: Isn’t that funny. It’s like a ‘bluey’.

Matt: A ‘bluey’? A dog?

Jeff: Yeah, ‘bluey’ a dog, or a bluebottle.

Matt: Oh yeah.

Jeff: It’s funny our language, no wonder people have trouble understanding us.

Matt: Yeah, like skyrocket is your top pocket.

Jeff: Yeah, and I’ll have a Captain Cook, is have a look.

Matt: Yeah.

Jeff: It’s weird some of these. And, the funny thing is, as we’re getting older I think some of these things are starting to wrangle out a little bit, you know, Back of Bourke and all that stuff.

Matt: Well, I’m originally from Mackay up in North Queensland in the Whitsundays sort of area, and growing up it was a real—it was such an Aussie yobbo place. In hindsight I look back now and it wasn’t multicultural, it was Aussie ‘yobbodom’, and it was awesome, I loved it.

Jeff: What, so you’re a racist?

Matt: Most of our dads were our heroes.

Jeff: Yeah.

Matt: No, well we were because we had no exposure to it. We didn’t have any opinions. It was quite funny, I took my wife up there, who’s half Vietnamese, and she’s got an exotic name, and so many people up there were saying, “Oh, that’s a nice name, where’s it from?” and then she’d tell them and they’d go, “Oh. Anyway, are we going to the pub?”

Jeff: “Where was she born?”

Matt: Yeah, it was just like that, nothing else to talk about.

Jeff: It’s funny, eh.

Matt: But, we used to talk a lot of slang, there used to be a lot of Aussie slang to the point when I first moved out of Mackay and I went down to the city and I was working on phone lines for Naturopaths and stuff like that, and I was getting into trouble for answering the phones saying, “G’day,” and saying, “Hooroo,” when I hung up, and slipping slang into everything.

Jeff: Yeah, it’s funny. But anyway, bear with us guys, we do get—the guys that come back—and, we’ve mentioned this before—the guys that actually do the—they listen to it and they type it out, the amount of times they come back and it was like, “Woa, what’s that?”

Matt: They have no idea what we’re talking about. Anyway.

Jeff: Anyway, thanks guys for listening. Matt?

Matt: Hooroo.

Jeff: Cherry.

Matt: What?

Jeff: That’s what say in New Zealand, Cherry.

Matt: Cherry?

Jeff: My father, he was born in 1923, but in New Zealand, and I still don’t get it because I came over here when I was pretty—you say goodbye to someone and you say, “Cherry.”

Matt: Really?

Jeff: “Cherry.” Yeah. Hooroo.

Matt: Righto. Hooroo.

Jeff: Cherry.

Matt: Bro.