Transcript – 

Jeff:                       Welcome to the ATP Project interview with Luke Leaman on hyper nutrition part one. In today’s podcast, Matt, Steve and I are joined by Muscle Nerds founder, Master Trainer Luke Leaman. We discuss why more is not always better, including some great stories from Luke and Matt about what has happened and what they’ve experienced when people use too much of a good thing.

Jeff:                       This is part one of a two-part series, and both podcasts are more conversational in style than normal and differ a lot from our normal podcast format. As always, this information is not designed to diagnose, treat, prevent or cure any condition and it’s for information purposes only. Please discuss any information in this podcast with your healthcare professional before making any changes to your current lifestyle. Stayed tuned. The ATP Project is about to start.

Jeff:                       Welcome to the ATP Project. You’re with your hosts Matt, Steve and Jeff, and today we have special star, guest star, Luke Leaman back for the second time, and this is the first time we’ve had somebody back for the second time.

Matt:                     That didn’t make sense. Welcome back.

Jeff:                       This is the first time for the second time.

Luke:                     I feel like I should get a parking spot now, because I have to park three blocks down the road every time I come here.

Jeff:                       There’s a disabled one out the front, didn’t you see it?

Luke:                     That’s for the leg day.

Jeff:                       So, Luke, your background, just for people who don’t know you, what [crosstalk 00:01:41]-

Matt:                     Who doesn’t know?

Jeff:                       Well, and it’s interesting, I just saw that you’re speaking at a conference-

Luke:                     In Canada. At SWIS, the Society of Weight Lifting Injury Specialists.

Jeff:                       Which is cool.

Luke:                     It’s really cool.

Jeff:                       Because you are considered to be in our industry, one of the world [inaudible 00:01:53] leaders in what you do. So can you explain, just quickly, what it is that you do, and what your background is?

Luke:                     Yeah, so I’ll just go back to when I first started training people. When I was 18, did the whole thing, all my education came from the internet, and Testosterone magazine, which is the best name for any magazine ever. And then started looking into people like Paul Chek, and Charles Poliquin, and Charles Staley, and that type of thing, and I just kept going and never stopped.

Luke:                     I was a competitive power lifter in high school, and throughout college, and then got into body building. As I went through different transformations, I ended up basically mentoring under Charles Poliquin, and at one point, basically working at Poliquin Group for a number of years, and one of their lead trainers, sorry, one of their lead instructors, I should say.

Luke:                     So I started traveling about five years ago, all over the world, teaching people. Then I left Poliquin Group, and started Muscle Nerds. We continue on with that, we do online training and then we also do education as well.

Jeff:                       Excellent. And I know a lot of this stuff, like us as well too, a little bit controversial at times, pushing the boundaries of the status quo, which is great. Especially if you’re right. Just not great if you’re wrong.

Luke:                     The thing is, I had a quote somebody made into a meme a few months ago, and basically said science doesn’t give a fuck what you think. It either is, or it isn’t. Your anecdotal experience doesn’t beat a dozen studies that refute what you think happens. You can feel good about something, that doesn’t actually make it true though.

Matt:                     That’s right. That’s what my dad always said, practice makes permanent. Perfect practice makes perfect.

Jeff:                       Yeah, that’s Vince Lombardi. I love that saying. [crosstalk 00:03:35]

Matt:                     That’s my dad. Rod. [crosstalk 00:03:36]. It said there on the bottom, Rod, on the bottom of the meme.

Jeff:                       So we’re talking about hyper-nutrition, is that correct?

Luke:                     Yes.

Matt:                     Yeah, Yeah.

Jeff:                       So, I’ve done no prep at all for this, which makes no difference really. Because I’m just here as the normal guy talking to you experts. But what is hyper-nutrition, Matt?

Matt:                     Basically, what happens is there’s this idea that there’s natural stuff is good for you, pharmaceutical and synthetic stuff is bad for you, and that if we take mega doses of natural stuff we’re only going to get better and better and stronger and stronger. In reality, there are times and places for us to use mega doses of vitamins and nutrients, in a naturopath clinic or as part of a sports therapy or sports performance strategies. But in that instance, we’re using these natural compounds more like drugs for a particular purpose.

Matt:                     So what we’re going to talk about today is the time and place to use mega doses, some of the dangers associated with using mega doses when it’s not appropriate. And just reminding people that regardless whether it’s pharmaceutical, synthetic, or natural, you can get too much of a good thing. And we’ve got some crazy ass stories of things that people have done, and that we’ve seen, and other common mistakes that a lot of people don’t realize they’re doing. So, that’s what we’re gonna talk about. There’s a time and place for hyper-nutrition, for hypertrophy, excelling in performance, correcting deficiencies, or correcting disease states using natural stuff. Then there’s a time for general wellness, maintenance, and just to make sure we’ve covered the basics.

Jeff:                       Talking to Luke before we started, the other title that we were going to call this show is Dumb Things that, what was it?

Luke:                     Dumb shit I’ve done to myself. [crosstalk 00:05:22] with nutrition.

Jeff:                       Yeah, yeah. And I wouldn’t mind signing up with HD a couple of stories so that people might be able to relate to this. So you were mentioning one about glycine, [crosstalk 00:05:33] so what’s-

Luke:                     So, I was at a seminar years ago, probably 2010. And I was rooming with a couple of guys, and what we were doing at the time was pretty brutal. It was a lower body training internship, and we had to do ten training sessions of lower body in five days. So everybody’s over trained, no one can think straight, and we were making our shakes everyday after we trained. We had a bar where you could get all these different types of workout amino acids and shakes and all that. One of the guys pulled down a tub of glutamine and a tub of glycine. And the tubs looked exactly the same.

Luke:                     So he thought he was doing 20 grams of glycine and 80 grams of glutamine but he got it backwards. So on the drive home, he didn’t look so good, and he’s driving the car. And I looked at him, I go you feeling okay? He goes, nah, nah, I don’t feel good at all. He pulls over on the side of the road and starts retching and just retching, and good friends that we are that were with him, we pulled our phones out and tried to record it but it was too dark. After he got done driving, we get in the car, and we get back to the apartment, and you just hear him for hours in the bathroom just retching his guts out. It was pretty nasty.

Jeff:                       So what does glycine do? If you overdose on it?

Matt:                     Well, this is the thing. The funny thing is, is it’s not that hard to overdose on glycine if you’re an avid user of supplements because glycine is quite an abundant amino acid anyway, in our food. But you know when you get chelated supplements, like magnesium diglycinates, they’re 80% glycine, 15, 20% magnesium. So you can get glycine in there. Remember there was that phase where people were spiking up protein powders, like up to about 30% of the volume of the protein powder could be glycine. It was significantly cheaper to whey.

Matt:                     People were taking 30 gram dose of protein sometimes could have been getting 10 grams of glycine, and all sort of stuff. So, glycine is an important amino acid. A lot of functions that are in around the liver, [inaudible 00:07:18] process is known as glycination, you detoxify things like salicylates and other compounds. In fact, there’s a whole school of thought out there of mega dosing glycine for detox. Where you build up to mega doses of 10 and 20 grams of glycine to strip out [crosstalk 00:07:32] certain toxins.

Matt:                     Well I know some pretty hard core people that have done some pretty full on stuff to their body that have sent themselves blind after taking 10, temporarily blind after 10 or 20 grams of glycine as part of a detox program.

Stephen:             Yeah, the glycine is a very small molecule as far as amino acids go, sorry to get chemical on you. And so what it does, it has a very high osmolarity reading. So it basically, it pulls water into the GI tract like a mineral would basically. So it can cause huge amounts of nausea, but 80 grams is an extraordinary amount.

Jeff:                       That was an accident.

Stephen:             Yeah, yeah. Glutamine, on the other hand, is quite abundant in amino acids, like it’s the most abundant amino acid in whey and so-

Jeff:                       And in your muscle.

Stephen:             In your muscle, absolutely. So, the body can tolerate more, that’s why he was going for the 80. Still, that’s huge.

Jeff:                       Still 80/20 though, still makes me think, you still have the 20 grams of glycine, the madman.

Matt:                     So yeah, and also, you have a look at glycine. So a lot of people think, oh it’s cool, it’s an amino acid, it’s gonna help detox, it’s gonna help have some effects on my nerves where it helps the relaxing compounds to relax a little bit more, and that sort of stuff. But if you’re in a calorie deficit, and you’re taking supplements with mega…say you’re in calorie deficit because you wanna burn fat and all that’s [inaudible 00:08:41] stuff, and you take mega doses of these amino acids such as glycine, they will have an effect, a calorific action, so you might think you’re mega dosing on something, because detox is gonna help me lose fat, and detox is gonna make me lose weight, and stuff like that. But the glycine itself ends up going through as a source of fuel.

Matt:                     Things like alanine, too. If people overdose on things like alanine, and it stimulates gluconeogenesis in the liver and all that sort of thing. They’re the sort of common mistakes. Aginine is probably the most common one I ever saw. So in my naturopath clinic experience, I dealt with a lot of, I had a lot of men in my clinic, because I come from the mining area, and that sort of stuff. Aginine was something they all wanted to take, because as far as they knew it was gonna drop their high blood pressure and give them erections. So they were all taking mega doses of aginine as a vasodilator to drop their blood pressure and have this erection effect and it never worked.

Matt:                     There’s all these products getting released, aginines with antioxidants all about vasodilation, and they’re all using a study showing that it can work. And then all the studies we realized were a bit bullshit because they were doing intravenous or they were doing mega doses. The funny thing is, if you ever look at aginine, some people, it’s easy to overdose on aginine as well, because you get plenty in meats and nuts and seeds and you get plenty in your food.

Matt:                     Its flat out finding a pre workout that’s not loaded up with mega doses of aginine, and I don’t care if it’s attached to an alpha ketoglutarate or something. We’re talking about the same sort of process here. When you take aginine, what happens is the liver gets better at converting it into things such as urea, and those urea compounds takes it away from it’s vasodilating effects down a totally different pathway, and those bi-products of that will actually shut down the enzymes that make aginine from citrulline. So to cut a long story short, the aginine paradox lists off a study where they gave people that had had myocardial infarctions and they’ll use … I don’t know if I can say that word.

Jeff:                       Infarction. [crosstalk 00:10:45]

Matt:                     Infacen, faction, facken. So what happens, when they give these aginine after having heart attacks, that’s a bit of [inaudible 00:10:48]. So they had heart attacks, and they thought, oh we’ll give them some aginine to dilate the blood vessels, take the burden of the heart, and that sort of stuff, reduce the pressure.

Matt:                     They had to can that study because all these people were dying. So they canned that. They created this aginine paradox and they realized that when you take it in high doses or moderate doses, longer period of time, it actually works less and less and less, and can start causing heart disease. Aginine is probably one of the most common ones I saw in my clinic for being weird ass overdose. The rest of it was just B vitamins.

Stephen:             The [inaudible 00:11:20] that aginine study, just to go into detail, it was a 70 people in the placebo group, 70% in the active group, and in the active group, the one that was given aginine, six of them died.

Matt:                     Yeah, wow.

Luke:                     Are you serious?

Stephen:             And zero in the placebo.

Jeff:                       Wow. Nearly 10% of people participating in the study died.

Matt:                     [crosstalk 00:11:35] They had to stop the study, they had to stop the study, because there’s an acceptable level of death [crosstalk 00:11:40] in any studies but they exceeded that.

Stephen:             Yeah, the only study that was stopped early quite in dramatic fashion was, of course, the drug is still on the market now, is the HRT drug [crosstalk 00:11:54]-

Matt:                     WHIMS study, wasn’t it?

Stephen:             Yeah, WHIMS study, and it stopped early because there was too many cancers and heart attacks.

Matt:                     That product had been on the market for 50 years before they did the study to see if it worked.

Stephen:             And it’s still on the market, now, by the way.

Matt:                     And it’s still on the market.

Jeff:                       Well, there’s nothing wrong with that. [crosstalk 00:12:05] Dear lord, anybody talk about getting melatonin in Australia, [crosstalk 00:12:09] dangerous like that.

Matt:                     [inaudible 00:12:13] three milligrams or [inaudible 00:12:15].

Luke:                     Yeah, three milligrams.

Jeff:                       [crosstalk 00:12:13] It’s hard not to be a bloody cynic, isn’t it? So, I’d love to hear some more stories in terms of … because obviously, you’re working with a lot of personal trainers. You’re working with a lot of professionals that are coming to you, so you’re like the master trainer. People come to you to learn about training, but a lot about nutrition, a lot about supplementation, a lot about getting the most out of their body. So what are some of the other crazy things that you’ve seen?

Luke:                     Oh, I’ve got two great arginine stories. One of them was something stupid I did to a client years ago, before I realized that arginine increases viral replication. And if you give someone a lot of arginine to make them more vascular while they’re getting ready for a show, and they’ve got something like herpes [crosstalk 00:12:47], guess what happens? They walk in one day and they’ve got this gigantic scab all over their face.

Matt:                     Ooh, I was gonna say which type of herpes was it? But obviously the one that gives you cold sores.

Luke:                     Yeah, well, it was like cold sores on steroids. [crosstalk 00:12:56] one of those. And at that point, I went, oh, well where’s the correlation here? Oh, okay, let’s look in the research. Uh-oh. Why don’t you get off that and we’ll give you maybe some beet root juice. [crosstalk 00:13:11] Some lysine to counteract it, right?

Stephen:             I used to teach [inaudible 00:13:16] it’s Lysine for the lips. So you just sort of remember it that way. That’s how I tried to get the students to remember in school.

Luke:                     That’s good, I like that.

Stephen:             Yeah.

Luke:                     I’ll give you a really good, really good arginine story. So year ago, a buddy of mine, we had an apartment together, and he went to see one of the girls that he was dating at the time. And he had read in some research paper about 20 grams of arginine would increase growth hormone before you go to bed. So he took it, and didn’t realize that she was wanting to get a little bit fresh, and so they got busy with it, and he had a traumatic experience. And he comes over to the house, and I’m sitting in a La-Z-boy recliner watching TV and he goes, hey bro, I’ve got this problem. I go what? He goes, I took 20 grams of arginine last night and my girlfriend wanted to have sex, and we had sex. And I go, alright, what’s the problem? He goes, well look at this. And he whips out his ding-a-ling right in front of my face. I turn, and it’s solid black. Except that he’s white.

Luke:                     And so he’s freaking out, he doesn’t know what to do. He goes, what do I do? I go, bro, your wiener’s gonna fall off, you need to go to the hospital. So he goes to the hospital. And he’s gone for a few hours. He comes back, and he’s like, oh, man. I got a story for you. The nurse came in, and she looked just like my grandmother. And she asked me what I did. And I told her. And she goes let’s have a look at it. And he had basically busted a bunch of blood vessels and he had a huge hematoma on his ding-a-ling.

Stephen:             Just a big bruise.

Jeff:                       And how do they fix it?

Luke:                     They gotta drain it.

Stephen:             Yep.

Jeff:                       SO, imagine that. Coming at you with a 20 gauge.

Stephen:             That reminds, [inaudible 00:14:42] it’s similar to that, but kind of nothing like it. In the sense that I had this idea once, because I’m always formulating and experimenting, and I had this [inaudible 00:14:54]. So there was this research on fulvic acids, a compound in [inaudible 00:14:55] that could help with erections, and also help wrinkles, and all that sort of stuff. It had all these amazing vasodilating properties. So what I thought is, I’ll make a cream out of it. So I made this fulvic acid cream, and it was kind of like a yellowy color, and that sort of stuff. But I gave it to this customer, and he comes back the next day like, are you having a joke sort of thing. And I go, when he told me, he says, well you’ve turned me old fella black. But is this a joke? Just because it’s black, it’s not bigger.

Stephen:             And I’m just [inaudible 00:15:27] no, no, no. And then we’re talking, I said, no man, seriously, I didn’t mean that. [inaudible 00:15:33] So we stained the skin black.

Luke:                     With the fulvites.

Stephen:             It didn’t really work because the fulvic acid compounds weren’t black, [inaudible 00:15:40] stuff. The funniest thing though, that was funny, because we had the appointment and we were having a good old laugh about it. No, man, it’s no joke, it was actually genuinely [inaudible 00:15:47] let’s just forget about it.

Jeff:                       Clinical trial fail.

Stephen:             And the funny thing is, his wife came to pick him up for an appointment, at the end of the appointment, and she comes in and she’s got these black marks down on the side of her face. And I’m just looking at him, and looking at her, and just going, what they…what’s going…and he said no, you told me that when you mentioned that [inaudible 00:16:09] would be good for wrinkles, so I gave some to my wife. And automatically I assumed that he’d used an applicating rod of some sort.

Jeff:                       While we’re talking about that, the guy that used to work for me. [crosstalk 00:16:25] there’s a better one.

Matt:                     You know we make Block E3. The original Block E3, see, chrysin is bright yellow. Now before we worked out how to get chrysin micronized and penetration properly, we used to just mega dose the chrysin and hopefully, you know, the whole [inaudible 00:16:41] would just overload the bloody thing and hopefully some bloody gets in. Which worked, and everything. But the problem, the side effect was, it would stain the skin yellow.

Matt:                     Now, the funny part about that is, most people were putting it on their chest and everything like that.

Stephen:             You just did the [inaudible 00:16:55] or what have you.

Matt:                     Yeah, we put on [inaudible 00:16:52] conversions, anyway. So one bloke asks me, is there any other way of getting more out of this product? And I said, well, you can theoretically. You can stick it up your [inaudible 00:17:05] and affect the prostate and get it in maybe into the testes areas and maybe have some systemic effects that way. Because it’s not really available orally, 5% sort of thing. So this bloke, blah blah blah, I forgot all about it.

Matt:                     Anyway, I go into Jeff’s shop one day, and I’m sitting, and this bloke comes and he’s like, poking me in the chest, and he’s…you didn’t tell me that it was gonna stain my asshole yellow. And then the first thing I was [inaudible 00:17:27] how do you know? I [inaudible 00:17:33] say, how do you know? And he’s just said, did someone tell you, were you looking in a mirror, how do you know when your asshole’s yellow? And this guy just looked at me, and just like, [inaudible 00:17:40] fuck you. And he just stormed off.

Matt:                     And the funniest thing is, already out the back, because the bloke that’s working for us now that I tried to convince to do it, so JR, I tried to convince him to walk out and say that, oh, you’ve turned my dick yellow. [inaudible 00:17:51] you too.

Jeff:                       But the interesting thing I love about the body builders, and back in the day when I had the store and people coming in, they’re always experimenting on themselves. They’re always pushing the science, they’re always … they’re happy to take theory or maybe half an idea, and actually see what happens with it, which obviously is where you get some of these crazy stories of people doing some amazing things.

Jeff:                       I mean, not always with good results, lets face it, some people are gonna hurt themselves.

Matt:                     There is a time and a place. We have to acknowledge that there’s a time and a place for using mega doses. But that’s why we’re not using them like vitamins, that’s not why we’re not just doing things for performance. So for example, in my clinic, with mega dosing. For example, vitamin B6, I used to sometimes have to use big doses of that to correct certain things.

Matt:                     Like, for example, behavioral problems in children, where I’ve had a blood test and shown [inaudible 00:18:41] or [inaudible 00:18:40] just stripping that B6 and zinc, and had a major deficiency we needed to correct. Or in other cases where I’ve had elevated homocysteine levels, or something, contributing to heart disease, I’ve used larger doses of folate, B6 and B12’s in the short term. But in those sort of situations, we use mega doses in the short term to achieve the desired result, which is way out of balance.

Matt:                     Meaning, what we try and do, is we try to create massive imbalance to force a change. But if you continue doing that, it’s not one of those things where the body will only take the good things and then throw the bad stuff away. So if they continue to take those doses long term without supervision, then they get all sorts of problems.

Jeff:                       You can, yeah.

Matt:                     And B6 for example, was a really common one that people would overdose. Because if you have a look at the [inaudible 00:05:03] protocols, and this weird ass stuff that people are doing now. They’re using mega doses of B6. So the levels of B6 you need in a day is like 10 milligrams, for example? Maybe 20, 30 milligrams depending on your demand. But for example, during pregnancy, to treat morning sickness, people use 450 milligrams of B6.

Jeff:                       Wow.

Matt:                     And that’s like, wrong. And then with this [inaudible 00:19:54] protocol in children, people are using hundreds of milligrams of B6 in tiny little infants. And the problems that we see in the clinic is you get people coming through telling them the prescriptions, and they’re telling you why they need these mega doses of B6, and they’re listing off all of those things like nerve pain, and hormonal problems, and brain problems, and [inaudible 00:20:16]. Steve-O, what are the side effects of B6 overdose?

Stephen:             The great thing about remembering the side effects of B6 overdose and B6 deficiency is they’re identical. Because if you give too much B6, and I’ll be specific here, pyridoxine, which is the common B6 found in supplements, it actually blocks the active form of B6 which is pyridoxal 5-phosphate. So if you take too much B6, the side effects of the B6 supplementation mimic exactly if you’re deficient in B6. So if you take B6 you will become deficient in B6 because you’re blocking the active form of B6. [crosstalk 00:20:49]

Matt:                     And it’s not easy to measure. So basically, and a very similar thing happens with synthetic folic acid, so when people overdose folic acid, it actually overwhelms the conversion pathways to stop and they get un-metabolized folic acid building up in their body, that it actually creates folic acid deficiency signs and creates a whole heap of other problems, [crosstalk 00:21:10].

Stephen:             We’ve got to remember folic acid is not found in nature. Folates are. Folic acid is oxidized, reduced, form….unoxidized, sorry, oxidized, just oxidized. Not reduced form. And it causes major problems in the body.

Jeff:                       Well, this is why, and again, I’ll throw back for the people, and for our regular listeners, they would remember The Vitamin Paradox. It’s a fantastic podcast that we did, and it was one of the first ones, really, to come out and shine a light on the fat that people are overdosing with vitamins and they think that they’re safe. Especially the synthetic forms. The amounts of vitamins that people are taking every day is actually doing them harm. And what’s really cool…I don’t know, I should say this with a caveat, because one of the tribe members from ATP [inaudible 00:21:42] sent me a little link to an article recently talking about vitamins and the overuse of vitamins in Australia. And they’re talking about how a panel of experts have effectively come out and said that vitamins are at best, a waste of money, and maybe doing you harm.

Jeff:                       And the article goes through and talks about how a lot of the vitamins out there, people are just popping them down, they’re not seeing any real benefit, and they go on to say, and potentially they could be doing harm because the body, obviously, has to remove them. And that they can backlog. Which is great.

Jeff:                       Because that’s what we said. The nice thing in the study, and this is something in the news article, the thing that I was really surprised about, is that they actually said, and they got a little bit wrong and a little bit right. They said if your diet is adequate, then you don’t need them. Well, we know that that’s not true, because of obviously the degradation of the nutrients in our soil. We’ve got charts on our [inaudible 00:22:40], we saw Matt.

Jeff:                       You put up all the charts showing the reduction specifically in minerals, but vitamins as well too, processing, green harvesting, and we go on. But they also said that natural vitamins were far more effective. So, it was really nice to see a balanced review there, but what they probably didn’t understand is obviously with [inaudible 00:22:58] besides, because of the multi food we actually have got those will all the bio-flavonoids and all the rest of it.

Matt:                     It bugs the shit…sorry to interrupt-

Jeff:                       Yeah, you’re alright.

Matt:                     It bugs me because they don’t specify synthetic multi-vitamins and what even bugs me more is when they say compared to a balanced diet. They’re actually talking about foods fortified with foods fortified with synthetic bloody vitamins. So they go through and say, what it shows here is that people that take foods fortified with these vitamins have got the same side effects as the people taking the synthetic vitamins from a capsule. So they totally wipe out those group of side effects associated with folic acids and B3’s that they’re fortifying the foods with.

Jeff:                       Ten years ago, man, I was watching-

Matt:                     But then they do these antioxidant things, and they always do beta carotene and di alpha tocopherol in mega doses, and that’s another common fault, because in Australia, we have to use those forms if you want to make an [inaudible 00:23:48] listed product, and in most other countries they just typically use those because they’re cheap and easy and nasty. But that is another common thing that we see people mega dosing antioxidants. And what you gotta understand is that if you overdose an antioxidant, it becomes a pro-oxidant. So vitamin C, [inaudible 00:24:06] vitamin C is one of the other ones that’s most commonly overdosed, and then vitamin A as beta carotene, vitamin E as di alpha tocopherol. When we have the natural variances with all of them like you’re saying, and the Multi Food, we’d have very small amounts of these vitamins compared to what you might get in the synthetic because the rest of the product is made up of all the co factors, the bio-flavonoids and all the different forms, you know?

Jeff:                       So ten years ago, I saw this, and it really pissed me off at the time. There was this expert that came on, I think she was a dietician, and she came in and she was talking specificallY about iron for women, and how important it was. And she goes, and of course, you don’t want to be supplementing with iron supplements because they can make you constipated. But I’ve got a bread here that I’ve fortified with iron. It’s like, um…and everyone is like, oh yeah. Yeah, because it’s food. Yeah, but you’ve just altered it by putting the supplement into the…whether you’re getting it from a bloody capsule or whether you’re just fortifying it in bread, what’s the fricking difference?

Stephen:             I’ll tell you the difference. It’s money.

Matt:                     The difference is the phytates in the bread block the absorption of iron. So you’re better off with the bloody supplement.

Jeff:                       The supplement they use is [crosstalk 00:25:18]-

Stephen:             And this one won’t bind you up. Because it’s not working at all.

Jeff:                       Exactly.

Stephen:             Well, [inaudible 00:25:19] is an iron sulfate form which is completely inorganic. You wouldn’t recommend that to your dog. It’s terrible. And they just put that chemical in the bread. It’s a train wreck. It’s just wrong wrong.

Jeff:                       But see, this is what annoys me when you’ve got this so-called talking head professionals on television, dieticians and nutritionists. Now, there are some great ones out there, but these ones all seem to line up and go, supplements are bad, and what I’m gonna tell you is good, follow the food pyramid, take this fortified bread, and fortified baby food, and effectively it’s just horrendous.

Stephen:             When I did a level of supplementation-

Luke:                     When you talk about the ferrous sulfate and the constipation, and that’s the exact pharmaceutical that doctors give people when they have low iron. It doesn’t do anything but make you constipated. It does not get your levels up. So when you try to talk to doctors about this, and say hey, my clients taking this, it’s not working, I’d like to give them some ferrous bisglycinate or something that’s actually going to absorb, they have no idea what you’re talking about.

Matt:                     They go into their computer and go, it’s not on the list of my things, so that doesn’t exist.

Luke:                     So, you’re damned if you do, you’re damned if you don’t. Especially if you’re dealing with a doctor that doesn’t know anything about vitamins and minerals. We just had three, I did probably the dumbest thing I’ve ever done, I had three 3-day seminars in three weeks. I was home two days out of a month and it just completely wrecked me. I had a number of nutritionists and naturopaths in my courses. And we’re talking about different vitamins and we’re talking about bio-chemistry and things, and it was just right over their head.

Luke:                     And I’m looking at them, going oh my god, you’re writing peoples diets. I’m a college drop out, I taught all this stuff to myself, and you have a dietetics degree, and you don’t even know the biochemistry of energy production, or any of that. So, you start talking to them about vitamins, and I’m like you guys gotta stop telling people what vitamins to take, because you don’t know which forms to take, you don’t know the right amounts. You know how it is with naturopaths in Australia, they put people on 500 pills a day, and then they don’t calculate out that there’s B3 in this, this, and this. And now they’re taking shit tons of B3, or shit tons of something else, because they’re not adding all the ten products together they’re giving them, and figuring out that they’re way overdoing it on a lot of the different supplements.

Matt:                     Yeah, exactly. And now, there’s this weird trend of putting things like B3 into pre workouts just to give that nice rush of blood. And the frustrating thing, especially looking at something like B3, nyacin, nicotinamide, nicotinic acid, there’s all these different forms of it that people are then like, oh jeez, I’m okay, I can stack them.

Matt:                     Or I got one that doesn’t create the flushing, so you don’t know you’re over. And one of the problems with overdosing in B3 is it actually is essential for processes such as methylation. But the problem is it has to be methylated to be active. And if you overdose on it, you actually deplete your methylate such as choline and everything like that. It totally does the opposite effect. And that’s what we’re finding when you overdose on things.

Matt:                     Everything is better off in little bits. Unless you’re specifically trying to fix a deficiency. But if you’re specifically trying to fix a deficiency, you only go mega doses until it’s fixed. How many people do you prescribe to sip on branch chain amino acids all day because it tastes better than water?

Luke:                     That’s a super common thing when you’re trying to get people to drink people to drink more water, especially women, for whatever reason, water’s too boring to them. So they’ll just put 5 or 10 grams of powdered BCAA’s and they’ll sip on that all day. And what they’re not understanding is that when you influx the body with a lot of large nutro amino acids, they’re gonna compete with each other through the blood brain barrier.

Luke:                     So the more leucine you take in, the more tyrosine, the more tryptophan, they’re gonna compete with each other. And in a lot of cases, people are inhibiting tyrosine and tryptophan from getting into the brain. So two and a half months after they’ve done 40, 45, 50 grams of branched chain amino acids a day, all of a sudden they’re depressed and they’re apathetic. They have no motivation.

Luke:                     It completely destroys their personality, and they get super flat. Then you sit down for a consult, and you go okay, how long have you been taking high dose branched amino acids, and they look at you and go, how did you know? And I’m like, well, when did you lose your personality? And they go, two and a half months ago.

Luke:                     Well, when did you start taking high dose BCAA’s? Oh, two and a half months ago. And then they’re like, holy shit. Then you give them some things to counteract that, and they feel normal again, and they’re like, okay, well that was dumb.

Matt:                     Ride the tide. That’s the way I used to describe them. Then they’d come inside, ride the tide. So they’re sitting there, they can’t switch, they got no energy to do anything, but they’re just running on nervous energy. It’s a classic symptom of sipping on branch chains. Because not even tryptophan and tyrosine, which are the precursors to the brain chemistry, but we know 80% of the serotonins [inaudible 00:29:59]. It’s competing with that directly for its absorption through the blood brain barrier.

Stephen:             It’s actually a curse as well. Because the branch chain amino acids are actually formulated usually during or before a workout, because it blocks serotonin, and serotonin relaxes you. And when you’re wanting to work out, you don’t want to be relaxed, per se, you wanna be yay! So, that’s when you take it. But people know that, ah yeah, that’s right, it also regulates mammalian target of rapamycin complex 1, which means, I can grow. So this great idea-

Jeff:                       Except maybe one person in a thousand Steve.

Matt:                     [crosstalk 00:30:34] remember that [inaudible 00:30:34] that time he said that? [crosstalk 00:30:37].

Stephen:             So, they’re drinking this stuff going, ah yeah, it’s gonna pep me up and make me huge [crosstalk 00:30:44].

Jeff:                       It’s gonna stop my muscle tissue from breaking down while I’m working out and it’s gonna help [inaudible 00:30:45], that’s what most people say.

Stephen:             Correct. Correct.

Matt:                     Well, how does it do the muscle sparing effect? Your body uses it as fuel, instead of your muscle. So excellent. So in a sense, is there a place for mega doses of branch chains if you wanna get massive? Like, if you wanna get big, would you use it? Or would you still focus on more protein?

Luke:                     I would focus on more whole protein, so you’re throwing amino acids out of balance. What people don’t seem to understand, if you look at 1 gram of a nutrient, that’s a lot. So, when you start taking 45,000 milligrams of something? When you say it like that, then you’re like, shit that’s a lot. And people don’t think about that. If you’re eating 300 grams of whole protein, it’s nice and balanced. The minute you start throwing in a lot of single nutrients or two or three different nutrients, then it throws everything off. So taking 5 or 10 grams of branch chains is not that big of a deal around your workout. But then when you’re doing that all day, not to mention if you’re stimulating [inaudible 00:31:39] all day, everything’s anabolic. So if you wanna get insulin resistant, and inflamed, and…fat gets anabolic. So you start ramping up [inaudible 00:31:46], guess what? You have girls that wanna lose body fat, but they’re drinking BCAA’s all day, and they can’t figure out why they’re dieting but they can’t lose fat.

Matt:                     Because in those windows between meals when they’d be sipping on waters, and the whole purpose of the training for fat loss and that sort, depleting the glycogen and getting that metabolism cranking. If they are then putting in an alternative source of fuel to their own body fat to be running as a muscle sparing, because they don’t want to get catabolic, they wanna maintain that muscle. That’s what they’re thinking, huh? They’re thinking if I sip on this all day, I’m gonna keep burning fat and preserve my muscle. But the reality is, is the body will use the branch chain amino acids as a source of fuel, instead of tapping into your stored body fat that’s in subcutaneous stores and that sort of stuff. That’s the reality, huh?

Luke:                     That’s the reality. And then if you look at the converse side of guys trying to gain weight. When you go into, say, the whole traditional bulking, you start bulking and you have all the best intentions, right? And the first three, four months, you’re doing really well, you’re eating all whole foods, and you stop gaining weight.

Luke:                     And you’re like, I just can’t eat 5 or 6,000 calories in whole foods. So they start eating more junk. Then they start increasing that insulin resistance. The same thing happens if you’re mega dosing essential amino acids or branch chain amino acids all day. Once you start tuning those insulin receptors down, you can’t get sugar into the muscles, and then you start actually losing muscle.

Luke:                     Which is, if you look at diabetics, diabetics are insulin resistant. Metabolically resistant. What’s the first thing that happens? Do they get fat first? No, they lose muscle first. Then they get fat. And that’s what they’re basically doing to themselves. So you get a guy who’s bulking, bulking, bulking, he’s taking all these essential amino acids, all the branch chain amino acids over time, they’re going to systematically make themselves insulin resistant.

Luke:                     So they’re actually getting bulk, but they’re not getting the bulk they want. Then they wake up one day and they look at themselves in the mirror and they go, I look like a sloppy, fat shit. Like, how did this happen? Well, you’ve been eating [inaudible 00:33:33] branch chains. So, then they start, they go all the way on the other side, and they start massively dieting, and by the end of their transformation, they’ve put on maybe a kilo of weight and they don’t look any different. It doesn’t make any sense.

Matt:                     And it’s weird, and just when you were talking about that insulin resistance, and the first thing that happens is their muscles stop. What people don’t realize is that insulin resistance is actually a muscle disorder, not a fat disorder. So people go insulin resistance is obesity related. Well, obesity is a consequence of insulin resistance. Initially, it’s actually resistance to insulin like growth factor, and the inability for the muscle to thrive with training and diet. And the end result is the fat guy, well I’ll never become insulin resistant, so send it over here.

Jeff:                       And this is the thing I like, as well, too, from a very life point of view is that everywhere we look, and we talk about it all the time, nature knows best, right? There’s summer and winter, and we see the seasons as night and day. It’s like people are trying to outsmart nature. They don’t want the waves, in terms of feast and famine, night time, daytime that sort of stuff.

Jeff:                       They just want a constant wave the whole time, which is a tidal wave, which is an absolute wreck. You need those sets of waves [crosstalk 00:34:50], the cycles. And once you start to tap into that, optimizing health, whether it be weight loss or muscle gain or the rest of it, is really about optimizing the cycles.

Jeff:                       Optimizing the damage, then optimizing the repair. Optimizing the growth hormone, all those sorts of things. And once you can really start to understand that with both your training, and your nutrition, and your supplementation, then you’re really gonna start powering ahead.

Jeff:                       And I’ve seen it since I opened my supplement store in 2002. Is that people just constantly want to, and Matt says it really well, just constantly want to put the foot flat down to the floor on the accelerator, without removing handbrakes. Well, a couple of things, you’re gonna burn out your engines, you’re gonna stuff your brakes, and when you do need to stop, you can’t. And this is the whole thing about balance. And this is the intelligence that, again, people like yourself and Matt, are starting to give this wholistic, whole view of how to train, eat, and supplement. Which is, we need more of it.

Luke:                     You get a lot of people that get caught in these endless cycles of dysfunction, and they do it to themselves. So we’ve got a bikini competitor, and she starts taking branch chain amino acids all day, because her coach said to drink 3 liters of water. But she hates water, so she drinks this. Now she’s becoming insulin resistance.

Luke:                     Now blood sugar is rising because insulin can’t keep the alpha cells from secreting glucagon, and then you’ve got an influx of sugar. Now that insulin resistance, what’s going to happen when you become hyper insulinemic? Sex hormone binding globulin is going to go down. Now estradiol is going up. Now you’re estrogen dominant. Now you’ve got increased thyroid binding globulin. Now you’re metabolic rate goes down.

Luke:                     And you cannot figure out why you’re eating 800 calories and you have no idea why you’re not losing weight. Well, 800 calories is now your normal maintenance because you’ve crashed your metabolism so hard because of taking stupid shit with vitamins.

Stephen:             Can I actually make this story a little bit worse than that, actually?

Matt:                     Yeah, bring it on.

Stephen:             Because a lot of branch chain amino acids are artificially sweetened, aren’t they? I did a paper of the week, I recorded it a couple of days ago, talked about a paper from Nature 2014, where they took the artificial sweeteners, you give it to animals, studies and humans. And it changes the gut microbiome, which independently, without the branch chain amino acids causes insulin resistance on its own. And they gave, rats for example, changed their microbiome, and they’ve changed it back by giving them an antibiotic, a poly absorbent like vancomycin. And that kills the microbes in the gut, and their insulin resistance goes back to normal, after an ingestion of sweeteners. So, that’s really interesting that the sweeteners and the branch chains caused the insulin resistance.

Matt:                     There’s a really important point you’ve gotta add onto that-

Stephen:             Yeah, gets worse [crosstalk 00:37:24] again? Oh, what?

Matt:                     Because. Remember in that study? Remember in the study. So you know on Facebook, I’ve seen it in the forums. You mention sweetener and the whole world goes mad, like you just said I hate your mom. And these people go, man [crosstalk 00:37:40]. Yeah, I know, I know. That’s the one thing that people go nuts all over.

Matt:                     I just really want everyone to know, good on you, you’re all actually correct. Because what this study shows, some humans, when they had the sweeteners with their particular microbiome, did not get insulin resistance. So when they had sweeteners as part of their [inaudible 00:37:57] and in their body, they did not get these weird insulin effects. Some other people did.

Matt:                     So when you see someone on Facebook and [inaudible 00:38:07] or on a forum or whatever, saying, I personally feel bad, I get a bad reaction on sweeteners. It has an insulin effect, and then my customers, and my clients, I tell them not to use artificial sweeteners because I suspect there’s a problem. They’re right. If you’re one of those people that goes on and says I can have sweeteners all the time and look at me, I’m shredded and I’m awesome and all my customers have it too because I don’t [inaudible 00:38:27], they’re right as well.

Matt:                     Just gotta understand that some people react, some people don’t. The crazy thing is people are different. And their microbiomes are even more different. So just accept the fact that there are differences out there, don’t go hating on people because your body responds differently to their body.

Jeff:                       It’s like, two people. Smoking a pack of cigarettes a day. One lives to 105, the other one dies at 30 of cancer. Again, if you say all things are equal, but you can tell some peoples resilient, some people’s makeup, their microbiome, which we’re learning a lot about now, it’s as different as a fingerprint. Some people have got an incredibly hard constitution, other people have got a weak one.

Jeff:                       So therefore, some of those things that people put in, I don’t like artificial sweeteners for a whole host of reasons. Not just the way that it affects the microbiome, but for other things that it can do. And some are worse than others, which we did a podcast on. And some of them are actually cool, non nutrient sweeteners can be actually quite beneficial, like erythritol, has actually got some great benefits for the gut.

Jeff:                       But you’re right. We’re all individuals, and again, so long as you can work things out. Sometimes you can’t paint everyone with the same brush. But there are standards, I guess, that you can look at and work out. Is that affecting me? And then you can rule it in or rule it out.

Stephen:             Exactly. And foods are different, and people are different. I drive up here with Mick from time to time. Mick [inaudible 00:39:47], who’s superman, I used to call him superman, he’s [crosstalk 00:39:48]. Yeah, he is too.

Jeff:                       And seven times Mr. Australia.

Stephen:             Yeah, yeah, yeah, but forget that. Mr. Southport. And his eating is questionable, let’s face it. And he still looks great. So he can have this beautiful resistance against bad food. And yet if someone else [inaudible 00:40:06] they’d be huge.

Jeff:                       And this is the frustration I think a lot of time when people are doing the right thing. They’re eating well, they’re training well, and all the rest of it. But yet, they’re not seeing the results as somebody putting in half the effort with half the interest in diet. And again-

Matt:                     And then they assume they’re lying.

Jeff:                       That’s right.

Matt:                     You’re not getting the results that I expect. You liar. You’re cheating. You’re stealing [inaudible 00:40:30]. [crosstalk 00:40:32].

Luke:                     Life’s not fair.

Jeff:                       Who said it was supposed to be?

Luke:                     It’s not supposed to be. You know, if you didn’t pick the right parents, then you’re screwed, you know? So-

Jeff:                       But the nice thing is, you can always take control over your own health. That’s the nice thing about it.

Luke:                     100%. You don’t have control over your genetics. But you have control over the epigenetics to a certain point. You can control the environment. And a lot of people, they don’t control the environment enough. And they think that after three weeks of dieting, they should be seeing something. But it could take you a year to get better. A lot of the people I see are the physique athletes that mess themselves up doing really dumb shit, and I get girls coming to me that are training 21 hours a week, they’re eating 7-900 calories a day. Then they end up getting injured, they put on 20 kilo’s in a [crosstalk 00:41:13] couple of months. They come to me and I say, listen, it’s gonna take at least, probably, 90 to 120 days just to get you feeling better, and you’ve got about a 12-18 month recovery. And they’re like, well I did in 12 weeks before. And I go, yeah, and that’s why you’re in the position you’re in now. Somebody can screw you up in 12 weeks, it may take me 12 months to get you even half way there.

Jeff:                       One of the things that we’re really passionate about, and Tony and Matt and Steve, actually, have been working on this [inaudible 00:41:34] is that we’re getting a lot more into theranostics, providing people with the tools where they can actually measure and look at their gut. Matt, what else are we doing?

Matt:                     Oh, we’re doing everything, because we can pretty much. One big problem that we’re finding is that people go to their doctor, or their specialist or their naturopath, and want to take control of their health. And their health’s held ransom for consult fees, and all that sort of stuff, saying that, now pay a consult fee and then refuse to do the test that they went there for because they’ve got their own agenda.

Jeff:                       That’s the thing that really upsets me-

Matt:                     That’s what bugs us most-

Jeff:                       When they specifically ask for something, and the doctor says nope. You don’t need that.

Matt:                     So what we’ve done, is we’re gonna make it available for people to get their testing done, so they can turn up to your place for their first appointment, with all of their results done. Everything ready to go. Then turn up and you can actually assess these things and go, right, we’ve got something to work with.

Luke:                     Fantastic.

Matt:                     That makes it easier. And then they can go to the doctors, they can have their own results, they can do their own research. We provide a little bit of information. Not interpret results, but we let people know what they’re reading. What a high reading, a medium, and a low reading means. But they can then take that to their health care professional and take control of their own health. Because we’re really sick of people getting their health held for ransom.

Jeff:                       The big thing is, you’ve gotta find, whatever. Whether it’s a doctor, I’ve got a great doctor. Dr. Bradley up at [crosstalk 00:42:58], but what it comes down to is, I’ve got a great chiro, we don’t need them, you know what I mean? No, I’m not gonna do any more plugs. But what I mean [inaudible 00:43:07] I’ve sought out, after years and years, I’ve gone to places where I know I can get the results.

Jeff:                       If I need a massage, I know where to go. If I need something to do with osteo [inaudible 00:43:18] or what have you, I’ve got somewhere to go. If I need a doctor, I’ve got. And I’ve sought these people out over a period of time. So they are professionals, people that I respect. People that I know whose belief systems are in line with mine and whatever I’m going to see them for. What amazes me is how many times people stick with professionals just because that’s my local GP down the road. Or that’s my local personal trainer.

Jeff:                       I had a friend of mine using a personal trainer who was just a dick. But seriously, this guy was such an asshole. And he was telling one of my friends to keep doing this, and keep pushing through. A change. Go to someone who actually makes sense to you. Don’t just stay with someone out of habit. Go find a professional. Because when you’re doing stuff like the [inaudible 00:44:07], which is the ability for you to be able to look at your microbiome, get the testing, get the results.

Jeff:                       Yeah, we give broad information, but not [inaudible 00:44:07]. You need to then take that to somebody you can trust and sit down and go, okay, what’s my plan of attack, what’s my game plan from here. Somebody who you know knows what they’re doing.

Matt:                     No, you wanna take control of your own health, otherwise you’ll do what someone else says.

Luke:                     That’s what drives me crazy about Australia. It’s so difficult to get labs here. Even if you wanna pay out of pocket, it’s like, why does the doctor care? Who’s the boss? The customer or the doctor? I’m hiring you to help me get my health in order, these are the tests I feel like I need, I’m willing to pay out of pocket, just take the profit and shut up.

Jeff:                       There’s some doctors that [inaudible 00:44:38] and do well. And if you find those doctors, love ’em, kiss ’em, you know? But like anything. Anything that’s decent. Good personal trainers, good nutritionists, good doctors. They’re out there, but they’re bloody hard to find. And when you do, they’re hard to get into, that’s always a good sign too.

Luke:                     And a lot of the doctors, it’s word of mouth, right? So you gotta find the doctor who doesn’t really advertise that he prescribes the right pharmaceuticals like T3 instead of T4, and that type of thing. They’re so scared to put their name out there, because they don’t want the government to audit them and come down on them really hard, and then they lose their license.

Matt:                     Exactly. And that’s what happens. You can’t use medical devices to fix body composition to prevent disease. You gotta wait until they’re sick and then prescribe something for the disease.

Stephen:             Let me tell you something really funny.

Matt:                     Body builders know how to use the pharmaceuticals to get a body shape, you know what I mean? I don’t know why the doctors don’t learn from the body builders, use their techniques to fix the body, prevent obesity, heart disease, diabetes. Anyway.

Jeff:                       So, Gail. [inaudible 00:45:35] see her at, what’s a bio-

Matt:                     He’s gonna get a free [crosstalk 00:45:38].

Jeff:                       She’s lovely. But she said to me, because I said this is a great technology, how are you going? She’s pretty much all fully booked all the time. I said you don’t advertise. She goes, no, I actually got in trouble. So this machine has been authorized by the TGA to talk about its effects on asthma. Proven, excellent, done really well. And apparently in Germany as well, too, and other place. This is standard. You go to the doctors, and these places are all over the place. In Australia, it’s very hard to find them. She got in trouble with the ACCC for making claims that the TGA had said that she was allowed to make. So she had to stop all of that and effectively can’t advertise. [crosstalk 00:46:18]. It just-

Stephen:             Two government bureaucrats [crosstalk 00:46:18].

Matt:                     Another classic one, let me tell you another cool ACCC TGA story. There’s a lady that did heat scan…what’s it? As an alternative to mammograms, she had a proven technology that would do heat scanning and look for hot spots. Almost exactly the same technology as mammogram, just using thermal imaging. And that sort of stuff. It was approved by TGA as an alternative to mammograms for diagnosing breast cancers without the trauma. Without the trauma, the radiation, and all that sort of stuff that can contribute to cancer. ACCC shut her down and said you can’t do this…and listen, this is the best bit. I gotta get this lady’s letter, it’s so cool. ACCC, sorry. What does ACCC stand for? [crosstalk 00:47:07] Something to do with competition. She got in trouble by ACCC. She was not allowed to go into competition to mammogram. So the ACCC said you gotta shut down your business. It is illegal for you to go into competition to mammogram. You are not allowed to be their competition.

Jeff:                       Well, what’s interesting with mammograms, obviously this is controversial, I don’t know a great deal about it. But Tony’s a huge fan of this other technology, I don’t know what it’s called-

Matt:                     I was gonna say, a huge fan of mammograms.

Jeff:                       No, she hates mammograms from a point of view, and this is a personal thing from a point of view that she, obviously, doesn’t wanna have x-rays done. Which obviously, there’s a lot of controversy around having x-rays. A lot of people are out there suggesting, and again I don’t have a dog in this fight, I haven’t looked into it, Steve, I don’t know if you have-

Matt:                     You don’t have boobs.

Jeff:                       No, well not yet.

Matt:                     Well, it looks like you’re holding one right now. Why are you doing that?

Jeff:                       Because I’m holding my boob.

Matt:                     Do you want me to stretch it out, and then we’ll run over it, and it’ll resemble a mammogram?

Jeff:                       Because they believe that the x-rays may actuallY be potentiallY causing…well, that’s bad english but you know what I’m saying. Causiting.

Stephen:             It could be causiting it.

Matt:                     The funny thing is, is because the common causative factors are things like radiation, x-rays, and trauma. So squashing something and radiating it, typically if there’s something weird going on, they might not like that, and get angry and grow.

Jeff:                       And I’m certainly not saying for anyone listening out there not to do it. You need to, because obviously that’s really important. But if there’s alternatives that have been shown to be safe, effective at doing it, it just annoys me that, again, I’d like to know more about this, actually, Steve, maybe we can do an update on this next time..

Stephen:             Yeah, we can do a radiation podcast. Because they’re using ionizing radiation [crosstalk 00:48:52]. And you know what? There’s a time and a place-

Jeff:                       It wasn’t a mammogram. It was for my shoulder, alright? Oh, shut up. You can’t talk you cross dresser. [crosstalk 00:49:05]

Stephen:             I think they acknowledge there is a risk, but they say the risk is small. But how big is small? You know what I mean?

Matt:                     Yeah. It depends.

Stephen:             Size dependent, isn’t it? Size, you know.

Matt:                     5%? 10%?

Luke:                     [crosstalk 00:49:22] I mean, if you’re an A versus and E.

Matt:                     I don’t know. Steve wears a sports bra when he runs. Did you know that? [crosstalk 00:49:31] I think I did say sports bar.

Luke:                     Doesn’t want the nipple chaffing.

Stephen:             I actually, I actually run topless when I run.

Jeff:                       Oh, you’re not one of those guys, are you? Oh, my gosh.

Matt:                     Topless when you’re a bloke?

Jeff:                       Steve, when you go for a run, do you run without your shirt on?

Stephen:             Yes.

Jeff:                       Oh, my. My opinion of you has just gone down. Why? It’s not necessary. [crosstalk 00:49:52]

Matt:                     In his Speedos and Crocs.

Jeff:                       It’s nipple rash?

Stephen:             Yeah, nipple rash.

Matt:                     From running, Steve. He wears a training bra, in winter, don’t you? [crosstalk 00:50:03]

Stephen:             In winter, I wear a cotton shirt, I do, I wuss out.

Jeff:                       You wuss out, no, you become normal. You’re not like oh, look at that guy without his shirt on. [crosstalk 00:50:12]

Stephen:             It’s 4 in the morning. [crosstalk 00:50:14]

Jeff:                       Do you run without your shirt on?

Luke:                     If I was as lean as Steve is right now, yes, I would run with my shirt off. [crosstalk 00:50:21]

Jeff:                       Oh my gosh.

Luke:                     Absolutely. [crosstalk 00:50:29] I’d put on some footy shorts and I’d look like Baywatch.

Jeff:                       Like Pamela Anderson, maybe.

Matt:                     Yeah, like Steve, he gets out his cotton shirt, he looks like he’s smuggling peas with his little nipple rash running down the street. Put the sports bra back on.

Jeff:                       You could cut glass with those things, Steve.

Stephen:             Absolutely.

Jeff:                       Especially in winter.

Stephen:             It’s nice and cold out there, I’ll tell you, you gotta watch it in the morning.

Jeff:                       They’re like little pigs [inaudible 00:50:39], those things.

Stephen:             Yeah, it’s terrible.

Matt:                     They do unravel.

Stephen:             That’s weird.

Jeff:                       You know what you need, Steve, you need some lube on your nipples.

Stephen:             Lube? I was gonna use some Duct Tape.

Jeff:                       Put your shirt on, but put some, well, yes, [inaudible 00:50:48] some lube.

Luke:                     Prototype 8.

Jeff:                       No, that’ll make it worse.

Matt:                     That’ll make it worse.

Stephen:             Pump it out [inaudible 00:50:56].

Matt:                     Yeah, that’s [inaudible 00:50:56] weird.

Stephen:             It’s pretty bad, it’s not a good look a middle aged man running out without a shirt on. I agree-

Matt:                     Not when his nipples look like pigs tiles.

Jeff:                       Especially, what about the wind burn, Steve?

Stephen:             The wind burn, yeah. Oh, yes.

Matt:                     No, they flap. The nipples just like, they’re like tassels when he runs. If he runs a certain way, they actually start to flip and spin.

Stephen:             Spin, yeah. [crosstalk 00:51:14]

Jeff:                       Well, you know what’s worse about it? The fact that you choose to wear high heels. Who can run in high heels, Steve?

Stephen:             It’s good for your calf muscles, you know? [crosstalk 00:51:21]

Luke:                     Absolutely.

Matt:                     Did you hear that.

Stephen:             It’s good for your calf.

Jeff:                       Did it? I’m doing it.

Matt:                     [crosstalk 00:51:30] I’d ask her, but Dory is here with the calves and nothing from the knee down. [crosstalk 00:51:35] He cant’ beach run because he gets stuck in the sand.

Jeff:                       I thought I was the worst. I thought, alright Jeff’s calves are the worst, until I saw Brian’s calves. [inaudible 00:51:44].

Stephen:             How did you get to see them? He’s usually covers them really well.

Jeff:                       Yeah, no. He had a pair of shorts on. I’m not alone. You know what? Us small calved people are gonna unite and we’re gonna take over the world.

Matt:                     I reckon then we just gotta go down to the beach and go come and get us, and you’re gonna [inaudible 00:52:01] I’m stuck in the sand.

Luke:                     You guys should start a support group for guys with no calves. That’d be good.

Jeff:                       You know what? There’s lots of us out there.

Matt:                     Ah, yeah. That’s cool.

Stephen:             Or start on donkey raises and get them bigger. You know? Is that what they’re called? What are they called? Donkey what?

Jeff:                       Donkey calf raises. [crosstalk 00:52:18].

Luke:                     Donkey show?

Jeff:                       Donkey calf raise, he’s talking about.

Stephen:             Whatever they’re called, that’s what I used to call them in the [inaudible 00:52:20].

Jeff:                       Yeah, no, the only time that people confuse me with a donkey is when they’re looking at me from the front.

Matt:                     Why the long face, Jeff? Eyaw, eyaw, eyaw-ays calls me that.

Jeff:                       Okay, guys, we’re running out of time. Again, we gotta get some FAQ’s. Steve-O, take it away.

Stephen:             Well, time now for our questions. What a great podcast. Luke, what a legend.

Matt:                     Yeah, he’s good [inaudible 00:52:48].

Stephen:             He’s good fellow, isn’t he? Wow, he’s great. Well, here’s a question from Lucy. And Lucy asks, hi Jeff, Matt and so where’s Jeff by the way, where did he go? To calf [inaudible 00:52:55] we obsessed, he’s probably doing some calf work right here. Okay, cool. Well Lucy says hi to us three, and there’s two of us. Just before I get into it, [inaudible 00:53:11] and Elsa are shit, oh hang on. [inaudible 00:53:13] Awesome. Sorry, sorry, I misread that word. Sorry. [inaudible 00:53:21].

Matt:                     Nah, they don’t.

Stephen:             I’ve been binge listening to your podcast over the last couple of weeks, and you’ve reinvigorated me in the search for the natural tool solution to some aspects of my life that I’ve learned to accept, live with, over time. My stats, I’m a 42 year old, weighs 52 kilos, exercise 5 to 6 times per week, strength, resistance, and cardio. And have a good diet, whole foods, balanced fats, proteins and carbs. No fast food, etc. But I’m no party pooper. I like a wine or two.

Stephen:             I started struggling with migraines as a child, diagnosed with pediatric stomach migraines at 11, and put on steroid medication 6-12 months, and have the school photos to prove it. I’ve had a doctor dispute this diagnosis recently so I don’t know what to make of that. The reason why she’s saying this is she probably put on weight, because it was probably a steroid.

Stephen:             I’ve suffered with headaches and migraines since puberty and continue to do so. Sometimes they seem to be hormonal, others I can find a cause, I can’t find a cause [inaudible 00:54:23]. I was put on the pill at 15 for severe menstrual pain, and subsequently diagnosed and underwent surgery at 17 for endometriosis, wow, after only 3 years menstruation. I continued on the pill to manage the severity of my symptoms. Continued to suffer pain through this time, until I had two children in my early mid 30’s.

Stephen:             I’ve not returned to taking the pill since. After my second child turned one, she is now 7, I returned to work and exercised pretty hard for a period of time, and felt a bit of…and fell in a bit of a heap. I lost energy and my libido. My blood case by my GP showed very, very low testosterone. So she referred me to a naturopath. Wow. I was diagnosed with adrenal fatigue and prescribed [inaudible 00:55:10], don’t recall what they are specifically. The naturopath also took a hand mineral sample and found high levels of hard metals. Copper amalgam and others. Amalgam, I guess she means mercury, I think. And so we put in a high quality, in line water filter into our kitchen. Conveniently, we were in the process of renovating.

Stephen:             That’s good. I took these supps for some time, reduced my exercise and felt a bit better. But not amazing. At that time my periods were every 24 days or so. It normalized to 26 to 29 day average. Over the past few months, my cycle has shifted to 34 to 36 days, I experience period pain and sometimes spotting on the 27th day now. But it seems, but then it doesn’t appear until 36 days. This month, I’ve had the pain on and off and nearly two weeks of bloating, but no spotting, and I’m up to day 36 with no arrival. My GP has given me a referral to get an ultrasound, which I’m yet to do as last month was, quote, normal.

Stephen:             Meaning it was timely, but certainly not without pain. I do suffer with a short temper premenstrual. I can feel very stressed and pent up at times, I’m not sure I’m not nice to be around, that was her words. I feel in the cold, my feet are always cold, and then I get under the doona, even in summer. But then, even when it’s not hot, I will often find myself dripping in sweat in the middle of the night, though I don’t feel hot at all. It infuriates my husband. Okay.

Stephen:             My most recent body composition scan had my body fat at 22.2 percent visceral fat, scored a 3. [inaudible 00:56:49] that level, that is really. What I think are subcutaneous fat deposits. Yes, they’re even cold when the rest of me is hot from working out. A small patch just below my belly button, my button, hips, waist where your knickers dig in. Yeah, my knickers dig in there too, actually. I’ve avoided environmental estrogen influences such as, what is that?

Matt:                     Phthalates.

Stephen:             Phthalates. Yep, and BPA as much as I can control in the last ten years. I really can’t access organic produce, cost and availability. Though we grow some of our own veg, and I try to buy it from the local market where I can, so I hope it’s fresh and local as possible. Good on you. Oh, some additional symptoms. In my mid 20’s, I experienced a very stressful time and was diagnosed with depression. I was on antidepressants for a couple of years, but it’s been about 15 years then, and I suffered no post natal depression at all.

Stephen:             Good for you. So after all of that, my question is, what supps would you recommend me taking? I plan to live a long and healthy life as possible. I want to enjoy it. If I don’t have to live with migraines and period pain until menopause, then I don’t want to. Thanks for reading my much longer than expected email. Also, I want to compliment you on customer service. Your online team are awesome at responding to questions. It makes a massive difference to your customers. Thanks, Lucy. Well, thank you Lucy.

Matt:                     Cool. This is cool, man.

Stephen:             Yeah, that’s a cool one.

Matt:                     Well you’ve seen the pattern. It’s a very obvious pattern here. So what we’re seeing here is an estrogen dominance pattern. Basically, estrogen dilates your arteries to your head. Your skull doesn’t expand, hopefully your brain’s not shrinking. So you pretty well run out of room, between your skull and your brain. And that’s what causes a migraine. Too much blood in your head. The other thing estrogen does is it makes your blood sticky and gluggy, you get less oxygen out of your blood, which means you get, more likely, to have throbbing arteries going into your head.

Matt:                     Estrogen dominance is always worse with an androgen deficiency. So if you got low testosterone, because the testosterone and progesterone do the opposite to the estrogen. Your blood test said you got low testosterone, I’m picking up that you got low progesterone because when you said spotting mid cycle, and that sort of stuff, with the estrogen dominance. The fact that your cycles going longer, still means that your body…the problem is not just androgen deficiency. Your problem is estrogen excess. Because you don’t have your period until your body can clear that estrogen away. Otherwise your period goes longer, if you were to have full androgen deficiency, then you’d be getting periods every two weeks, sort of thing, instead of every 36 days, you have 14 days.

Matt:                     So what we’re seeing here is too much estrogen. When you got a high estrogen, it inhibits your thyroid, estrogen increases cortisol, that creates the depression aspects. Estrogen exaggerates and amplifies any thought process, so that’s why coming in towards the end of the menstrual cycle, you’re only supposed to have two weeks estrogen and then two weeks androgen. So you’ve got 4 full weeks and more. 5, 6 weeks of estrogen affecting your brain, making it harder to switch off, and exaggerating your thought processes.

Matt:                     If I was to do any more testing, I’d probably look for the motherfucker gene. The MTHFR gene, polymorphism, so the MTHFR gene, poor Lucy would be thinking it’s a mother fucker. If she’s got it, likely, because it’d explain the estrogen dominance, the endometriosis. It’s also involved in the detoxification of catacholamines. It’s also heavily involved in the elimination of vasoactive amines. If you can’t actually eliminate vasoactive amines, then you’re gonna have, there’s a lot of foods that you might eat, especially aged and preserved things, things that taste good typically.

Matt:                     Like the parmesan cheeses, all those wines, chocolates, wine definitely. Full of vasoactive amines. Chocolates, nuts and seeds, a lot of those preserved meats. Weird shit like avocados, herring, pickled herring, Vegemites. A lot of those sort of things that got these compounds and they’re called vasoactive amines and they just make the arteries in your head throb and can create migraines anyway.

Matt:                     So the stomach migraine is a vasoactive amine issue. Stomach migraines are caused by vasoactive amines going through the first pass of metabolism and making the portal vein throb. And they call them stomach migraines in the past, now I don’t know what they call them, because this doctor seems to think that didn’t exist. An interesting feature is heavy metals increase [inaudible 01:01:10] 50 enzymes, a couple in particular, is [inaudible 01:01:15] and [inaudible 01:01:18].

Stephen:             And what does [inaudible 01:01:19] do?

Matt:                     Well, [inaudible 01:01:18] converts testosterone to estrogen.

Stephen:             So she would have low-

Matt:                     Low testosterone, high estrogen. The other thing is that could explain the low testosterone in the blood is the other one, [inaudible 01:01:29] is taking testosterone to [inaudible 01:01:31]. And [inaudible 01:01:27] testosterone makes you angry and irritable, but it doesn’t show up, or they don’t test for it in blood, because it’s typically found in cells.

Stephen:             So she’s got a high copper, which means she’s probably got a low zinc, and zinc is the one that regulates-

Matt:                     Exactly. And so what happens, [inaudible 01:01:43] cadmiums, and that sort of stuff, and even mercury. What happens you get a build up of these heavy metals, your main chelator of those is the zinc, and selenium. And the [inaudible 01:01:48] the zinc and selenium are not only involved in the enzymes. If you don’t have zinc and selenium, [inaudible 01:01:54] runs too fast, [inaudible 01:01:58] can’t be controlled. But also, you actually aren’t capable of using the [inaudible 01:02:03] that activate the thyroid hormone. So this big link is forming. The end result is you got too much bloody estrogen. And if we clear away some of that estrogen, you’re gonna feel better. So before we do the MTHFR gene polymorphism test, and look for things like homocysteine accumulation and all that sort of rubbish, we get started with a Multi Food, because it doesn’t change the treatment. The Multi Food is the answer anyway. I’ll write it down. So we got Multi Food? Definitely need Multi Food, 3 capsules daily just to make sure your body is capable of processing these hormones. What I wanna do is also throw in the Alpha Prime.

Stephen:             Prime. She’s a prime candidate-

Matt:                     For Prime.

Stephen:             Absolutely. Look at that. Loving it.

Matt:                     Master segue. He’s everywhere, he’s everywhere. So with the prime, what happens, take two in the morning, two at night. It’s actually gonna lower the sex hormone binding globulin that’s binding up all your testosterone and allow that testosterone to be more active. The reason why, I was debating Steve, I don’t know. I was gonna originally I wrote that we do Venus in the morning, Prime at night, because I wanna increase. But then as you kept reading, it kept getting to the point where the periods are going longer and longer. And I’m always fearful that when we use Vitex it can actuallY help the periods to go longer. So I think we’ll just stick with the Prime, two twice daily. And use the Multi Food, three capsules daily. And the other one’s Block E3.

Stephen:             Yeah, Block E3.

Matt:                     You know those cold fat bits? That’s a classic sign of estrogen. What happens in those situations is estrogen makes those fat tissue, that fat tissue. Terrible blood supply. But in that fat tissue it makes more estrogen. So we can put in a product called Block E3, what’s got a compound in it called chrysin. Chrysin will block the [inaudible 01:03:37] in that fat tissue, and stop your body converting testosterone in your fat.

Stephen:             Absolutely. There’s one other suggestion, can I make it?

Matt:                     No. Because we’re given her too much.

Stephen:             You’re sure one more?

Matt:                     Nah, alright.

Stephen:             Well, [inaudible 01:03:50] because of the zinc and selenium-

Matt:                     You’re actually really smart.

Stephen:             And the feeling cold all the time.

Matt:                     Yeah, and also, there is a vicious cycle that can form, and here I am getting all clever and smart, because as running through your discussion, you start talking about reproductive [inaudible 01:04:04] early. So my brain started that way, but then at the end it’s all thyroid now. And if we flip that around, it is possible that an underactive thyroid this whole time could have manifested as estrogen dominance.

Stephen:             Well, she hinted that she was overweight at school.

Matt:                     And cortisol slows down thyroid activity, increases revers T3-

Stephen:             Huge stress at the age of 20.

Matt:                     Yeah, so with the MTHFR gene, also do a full thyroid [inaudible 01:04:34] profile with your doctor, and remeasure reverse T3, he’ll probably say it doesn’t exist, so just get him to measure it anyway. Because the pathology companies know all about it even if the doctor doesn’t. And we can help you interpret it. So good idea, Steve. T43, Jeff’s not here. I don’t know, he spontaneously combusted earlier like Spinal Taps drummer. Each podcast he’s not here, we’re gonna have to come up a new Spinal Tap drummer [inaudible 01:04:55] story about where he’s disappeared.

Stephen:             Absolutely, yeah.

Matt:                     T432, one capsules three times daily, Multi Food three with breakfast, Alpha Prime two twice daily, butter up with Block E3 twice daily after a shower, finely tuned athlete before you know it.

Stephen:             Absolutely.

Matt:                     We’re not here to diagnose, treat or cure, add disclaimers like Jeff would normally do, and then I’ll just say you’re gonna be a finely tuned athlete before you know it.

Stephen:             Absolutely. And the beautiful thing is that we recognize that you’ve suffered a fair with this, so we’re glad to help you out. And thanks for writing in, and thanks for the kind words about us.

Matt:                     Yeah, [inaudible 01:05:26] and Elsa will probably, oh they’ll take all the credit because [inaudible 01:05:26], night from [inaudible 01:05:31] and Elsa, oh this is specifically for me. Oh, you’re so wonderful [inaudible 01:05:34] and Elsa. God, it makes me sick.

Stephen:             Absolutely. [inaudible 01:05:34]

Matt:                     Man, I hope this isn’t anonymous. I want a name like that. My names’ Matt Legg.

Stephen:             Ah, it’s a great name. Actually, look at the email address. Look at that, I won’t read it out, but look at that. Isn’t that a great email. It’s such cool.

Matt:                     This isn’t anonymous is it? Say his name.

Stephen:             I’ll just see if he signs off that it… yeah, oh, it’s from Guy Ranger.

Matt:                     See? That’s so cool.

Stephen:             We love that name. That’s great. You know what the worst name in business is off hand?

Matt:                     Matt Leg? Seriously.

Stephen:             No, in business. I was trying not to get personal. The worst name in business, I think, is Microsoft. I just think that’s a terrible … Microsoft. Like, imagine if I said you’re Microsoft.

Matt:                     Yeah, that is a terrible name.

Stephen:             It’s a terrible name for the biggest company in the world, well, probably not, someones gonna fact check that. But one of the biggest, probably the richest man.

Matt:                     Microsoft. I’ve never even said it like that. You might have issues to think about that.

Stephen:             Just, you know, he was a nerd, obviously. Nothing against that, but, you know, Microsoft. Can you imagine coming up with a name like that? Microsoft.

Matt:                     Yeah. Large and Hard.

Stephen:             Yeah. That’s what I would have called my computer business.

Matt:                     Large and hard.

Stephen:             We sell hard drives. We’re large and hard.

Matt:                     Yeah. Isn’t that the people that invented the floppy disk, and decided to call it a floppy disk? And wasn’t the floppy disk the hard one? And the soft, flappy one was not called a floppy disk?

Stephen:             When I went to school, [inaudible 01:07:02] they were 5 and a quarter inch. Right? They weren’t centimeters, none of that crap.

Matt:                     No one talks about quarter inches, Steve. [inaudible 01:07:10] that’s 5 and a quarter. Just like, no man, it’s 6 inch, average.

Stephen:             That’s the size. They were floppy like that and you could twist them off. And then they got hard, and got smaller. So I don’t know-

Matt:                     Yeah, how did they get smaller?

Stephen:             [inaudible 01:07:22] and shoved them in.

Matt:                     It should be micro hard. Okay, micro hard [inaudible 01:07:30].

Stephen:             Micro hard.

Matt:                     Macro soft, micro hard. Guy Ranger. Tell us about Guy Ranger.

Stephen:             All right. Dear Jeff, Matt, and Steve. What a revelation coming across your podcast. He probably doesn’t think that anymore. Find me a company that is aiming to improve the health and well being and not worried about just looking after the bottom line. Well, you know, it’s true. Since coming across your products, in brackets I have been taking creatine mono hydrate for a while, and podcast I have been an avid listener trying to catch up, awesome. Often listening to three to four podcasts a day. Holy mackerel. I apologize for the length of my mail, but any advice or insight would truly assist me so much. I have broken my question into three parts. So here’s the first part. Do you wanna address them in parts?

Matt:                     Yeah, we’ll see what happens. Yeah, I reckon, shit yeah. Do point one.

Stephen:             Alright, point one. I am 30 years old, and I’ve always been very active. I grew up in South Africa, but live in Brisbane now. I’ve always played sports, mainly rugby and cricket, however over the past few years, I gave up rugby and took up running. Good on you, mate, I love it. Having completed about 10 [inaudible 01:08:31] marathons, jeez, that all? And three ultra marathons, that’s any marathon going more than 42 kilometers. About three years ago, I was diagnoses with high blood pressure-

Matt:                     I fucking bet.

Stephen:             And have been taking [inaudible 01:08:46], which is a beta blocker, [inaudible 01:08:59] day since. I’ve had necessary blood tests and going for checkup every four to six weeks. My blood pressure has stabilized with the last reading being 116 over 72. That’s pretty perfect. My question is, with my active lifestyle and fairly clean eating, I stay away from white carbs, wheats, sugars, I have a balance of meats, greens, and fruits. Is there something I can do from a dietary point of view that I could add or remove? I enjoy two to three cups of black coffee a day with no milk or sugar. I have recently begun taking Multi Food and Amp-V in the morning. So you wanna start there?

Matt:                     Yeah, yeah.

Stephen:             Yeah, because the next one’s his wife.

Matt:                     Yeah, so we’ll just do this one first. So yeah, keep taking the Multi Food and Amp-V of course. So when we’re seeing this high blood pressure, there’s quite a few things you can do. What we wanna look at is there’s some functional foods, but also we need to understand that most aspects of these cardiovascular disease, in particular such things as hypertension, are inflammatory and oxidative stress predominantly.

Matt:                     Meaning that, you for example, if your arteries thicken up a little bit, we get a bit of calcium and that sort of stuff. Which happens as part of stress and inflammation, then you get an increase pressure, because you lose that elasticity. If that happens in through your kidneys, then your kidneys send a message back to your body saying, this blokes got no blood, he’s possibly bleeding to death, we put up his pressure, and if it’s stress related. Definitely having a couple of cups of coffee can increase it. Because it drives your stress and nervous system, it drives up that cortisol, and cortisol holds the fluid that puts up your blood pressure.

Matt:                     If you were to switch a couple of those cups of black coffee to a particular herbal tea, made on hibiscus flowers, you would notice a significant change straight up. If you did nothing else, if nothing else changed, because you’re doing a lot of the good stuff. If you were to switch a couple of those cups of coffee to a big batch of hibiscus tea, the Rosella tea, because the Rosella relaxes the aorta, it helps to get rid of that extra fluid that you might be holding.

Matt:                     It doesn’t interact with your medication. It also allows you to, it does a lot of good sports performance stuff, also. It looks after your microbiome that’s associated with these things. I would definitely do that straight away. I would also make sure that about 30% of your calories are coming from good quality oils. Raw nuts and seeds, essential fatty acids and that sort of stuff to make sure we got that elasticity in the arteries. You know, immediately out of the heart that controls the top number, and then typically in the kidneys that controls the bottom number to a certain degree.

Matt:                     Also making sure you got adequate diuretics and electrolytes, looking at things like magnesium, potassium. First things I would do is throw in [inaudible 01:11:14]. And I would recommend, [inaudible 01:11:28] is basically a magnesium taurine supplement with the zinc and selenium to make sure those enzymes are capable of all working. But they’ll make sure you’re capable of relaxing the arteries, and making sure you’re capable of having vasodilation.

Matt:                     And then I would basically throw int he hibiscus tea. And the product that I would actually recommend, that again that we can send out that’ll go in is Gut Right. Because you’ll actually spin out. If I help take the inflammation out of your gut, you watch what happens to your blood pressure. It just disappears.

Stephen:             Its a good one. And magnesium’s a calcium channel blocker, so we’ve got it working, and that’s terrific. Anything else you want to add? He’s obviously exercising enough, isn’t he?

Matt:                     Yeah. [inaudible 01:12:06].

Stephen:             I think that’s pretty good, actually.

Matt:                     I’ll tell you one thing that would bloody work, and we should do this. I think we sell it. Citrulline malate.

Stephen:             Oh yeah, of course. Do we sell it.

Matt:                     Citrulline malate gets absorbed. So 3 grams of citrulline gives you the same amount arginine in perifory, taking 6 grams of arginine. It’s a very good vasodilator. Crazy shit that happens when you take citrulline, though, because what happens is your body has to break down other things to make citrulline. So when you put the citrulline in it back logs all the glutamine and everything it maintains that in your gut wall. Also, a lot of research coming out, citrulline preventing gut induced inflammation. For example even protecting the body against sepsis. So using something like citrulline malate, it’s a very good state dependent vasodilator. Now you’re a runner. So you know you do not want to use a vasodilator before a marathon. Otherwise you can’t bloody move. Everything gets too, especially your lower back and your calves, everything fills up.

Stephen:             It’s terrible.

Matt:                     But when you use a citrulline malate, same as when you use beet root, nitrites and that. They have a state dependent vasodilation. So they’re not just going through indiscriminately dilating blood vessels. If you have an area that wants more oxygen, it’ll tell the body to convert the citrulline to arginine. That releases nitric oxide. The byproduct of that reaction is citrulline.

Stephen:             Yeah. [crosstalk 01:13:21] Nitrous oxide sits inside your arteries and this is important if you got high blood pressure, and that’s released from the endometrium inside there. And that causes vasodilation. When you think of a hose and you think of it dilating it reduces the pressure, and that’s what we’re after. So that’s what, [inaudible 01:13:35] I’m trying to think of a diagram of something about that [inaudible 01:13:41], I couldn’t think of anything that [inaudible 01:13:43]-

Matt:                     No, not in my perception.

Stephen:             No, definitely not.

Matt:                     Not brought out by Microsoft, eh Steve-O?

Stephen:             Absolutely not. That’s a good one.

Matt:                     Citrulline malate, Gut Right, [inaudible 01:13:48]. That’s cool man.

Stephen:             Good one. And he’s on Multi Food and [inaudible 01:13:55] already.

Matt:                     Alright, let’s talk about his wife.

Stephen:             Well, let’s talk about his wife, because my wife is also very active [crosstalk 01:14:00]-

Matt:                     Or active. Sorry.

Stephen:             It says active.

Matt:                     His names Guy Ranger, of course he’s got a hot wife.

Stephen:             Of course he has. My wife is also very active, but had been diagnosed with thyroid issue. Takes 50 micrograms of thyroid, or T4 per day. That’s quite a low dose, by the way, just so you know. She battles with fatigue levels and battles [inaudible 01:14:23] even when training hard and eating clean. She hardly drinks alcohol and also eats a balanced diet. I have her take Multi Food now as well, but should she try Alpha Venus?

Matt:                     Maybe. The funny thing is, I wouldn’t go straight for alpha Venus, I would actually use T432 Blast. Because like Steve-O said, it’s a very low dose medication. So this is a frustrating thing. Thyroid granules? Do they call them that? Because that’s what they bloody look like. The tablets? You can’t cut them in half easily. And they’re 50 microgram jumps. So a lot of people that used to come through clinic, they’d take 50 micrograms one day or a couple of days, and then they’d need to jack it up to a hundred micrograms.

Matt:                     Most people are going 100 and 150’s though. So most people that I saw were on 150 micrograms and that. So when you’re on a low dose like that, what you gotta understand, for them to jack you up a little bit to get you in that thyroid window, they could only double your dose. And that might be too much. And they might have tried that in the past where you have a day where you’re too fast, and then they go you slow for a few more days.

Matt:                     If you use something like T432 that enhances the conversion of T4 and thyroid hormones and improves the activity of thyroid hormones, you can use a natural product like, you can keep your thyroid medication the same, then you can use T432, take one capsule three times a day initially. Monitor your body temperature and look at your symptom picture. Oh, if you go to, and you put in that little search bar thing thyroid, or hypothyroid, it’ll show you some information, list the symptoms of low thyroid, the symptoms of high thyroid.

Matt:                     And also gives you a chart that you can use to measure your basal body temperature. So if you take T432 in conjunction with your medication, working with your doctors and pharmacists, using the symptom picture and the body temperature chart, you can then see how many T432 you need to add to your medication to get you in the thyroid window. Because if you’re not in that thyroid window, then you cannot clear away estrogen. So there’s no point putting in and estrogen progesterone modifier if your thyroid is outside the window. So we start with the thyroid, jack it up, and then [inaudible 01:16:31] Multi Food and T432 in this case.

Stephen:             Absolutely. And just on thyroxine, make sure you keep it in the fridge. Because a lot of people keep it beside their bed and take it first thing in the morning. It has a half life of 6 days, so you can take, if a doctor asks you to take 50 one day and a hundred the next, that’s not unusual. But also, when you get your thyroid levels checked, yes, they usually check, monitor your TSH. And they say once it reaches 4, you’re within your normal range. It should be below 2 to have optimal thyroid functioning. So that’s good.

Stephen:             So alright, lastly, my family has a history, this is still Guy, by the way.

Matt:                     Guy Ranger. So cool, man.

Stephen:             Yeah it is. Lastly, my family has a history of prostate cancer. With my paternal grandfather having passed away about 18 years ago, and recently my dad living with it. My dad was diagnosed about 8 years ago with a PSA level of over 600. It should be below 10 or below 5, really. But has managed to bring it down to normal levels. Good stuff. Obviously with his history and family I’m concerned about myself. I haven’t been tested yet, and intend on being tested this year, sooner rather than later. Good.

Stephen:             Are there [inaudible 01:17:36] put in place now with regards to my diet, supplementation, and medical tests to ensure I give myself the best chance of staying cancer free? And before you answer that, once again apologies for the long message, but it’s such a breath of fresh air knowing we have the likes of yourselves and ATP Science trying to better us all through natural means and products. PS, Steve being an endurance runner, should look at doing the two oceans Cape Town and [inaudible 01:18:04], I think that’s [inaudible 01:18:07] miles.

Matt:                     Yeah do it.

Stephen:             That marathon is 26. [crosstalk 01:18:14]

Matt:                     Chases by lions and everything in that one.

Stephen:             Jeez, I’d love to.

Matt:                     Every time you just start [inaudible 01:18:18], you just stick [inaudible 01:18:21] behind you.

Stephen:             Yeah, you never really slow down, in a marathon you feel like giving up at about 30 K’s, you’ve had it by then.

Matt:                     You know what I’m gonna do? I’m gonna come with you, and I’m gonna go on the side road, and you know, everyone else is giving out cups of water, I’m gonna come out of the bushes with a lion. See how fast you go then.

Stephen:             It’s what you need at that time of the race, anything.

Matt:                     Anyhoo. Let’s answer this question before I forget, because this is a bloody good question. For starters, before I forget, keep running and don’t turn to cycling. Don’t start doing triathlons if you’re worried about your prostate. I know I’m not talking about the Lance Armstrong protocols. Then you’ll get prostate for totally different reasons. But the actual process of sitting on a bike seat has been linked in with prostate. So keep running and don’t sit. Ever.

Matt:                     Anyway, so what’s really important, in this situation, what’s really funny about running, and I’ve got some crazy odd case studies of the healthiest people I knew that were the sickest people I knew, because they’re constantly running next to the road. And they’re sucking in all those leads, and mercuries, and cadmiums. Cadmium in particular, massive link with prostate.

Matt:                     So what you need to do is make sure you’ve always got heaps of zinc and selenium in your system to chelate these heavy metals before they get in and screw around your systems. You also need good antioxidants, because the exposure to these compounds, [inaudible 01:19:36], because they’re toxins. Those [inaudible 01:19:41] includes [inaudible 01:19:43] which we mentioned earlier. That will convert your testosterone to estrogen and di hydrate, and it’s those things that cause prostate problems, not testosterone, which is why teenagers don’t get it.

Matt:                     So what you need, heaps of zinc and selenium. This is what I used to say in my clinics. Any bloke used to come in my naturopath clinic around the 40’s, I would say start doing this, three to four brazil nuts every day. Snacking on handfuls of pumpkin seeds any chance you get. SO pumpkin seeds and brazil nuts will give you the zinc and selenium you need. And then what I used to tell them to do is get a tablespoon of organic tomato paste and mix it with about a teaspoon of turmeric, and add that to a little bit of water, and smack that every day.

Matt:                     Or put that into something, or try to cook with it. If you don’t cook with it, you gotta drink it. And so, the 3 or 4 brazil nuts, the pumpkin seeds, the tomato paste, and the turmeric. So tomato paste contains a compound called lycopene. And in men, prostate is pretty much a lycopene reservoir. So the more lycopene you have, that’s the red part in tomatoes and watermelons and that. It soaks up into the prostate in a very powerful antioxidant. In women it accumulates in the breast tissue, and can prevent…what the hell are you doing?

Stephen:             I was just giving, because people don’t know where breasts are.

Matt:                     So when I mentioned prostate and your hand disappeared off the top of the desk, what the hell were you doing?

Stephen:             I was showing him the prostate. I was gonna stand up and do it, but-

Matt:                     Anyway. It’s so much more fun when Jeff’s not part of the FAQ’s. We give away [inaudible 01:21:04] shit and we carry on like pork chops. Because you’ve seen how pork chops carry on.

Stephen:             [inaudible 01:21:13] you’re giving away our naturopathic licenses I think [inaudible 01:21:16].

Matt:                     Yeah, yeah. Anyway, so do that. Tomato paste, turmeric, zinc and selenium. Otherwise you can do things like Multi Food, or the [inaudible 01:21:25] for the zinc selenium, and we don’t have anything with lycopene, but anything red and colorful, eat a lot of those. And [inaudible 01:21:29] for the turmeric, but-

Stephen:             Keep off dairy too.

Matt:                     Just do that. Multi Food. Everyone needs to be on Multi Food.

Stephen:             Keep off dairy. The IGF in dairy is very pro cancer in prostate. Huge study in 2015 showing that. So that was really cool.

Matt:                     Yeah, that was good one. Thanks, Guy Ranger. Love your name. My name sucks.

Stephen:             Do we have time for one more?

Matt:                     No.

Stephen:             No? No, we haven’t? Alright, well yeah, because that was three, I guess.

Matt:                     So we’ll do it next time.

Stephen:             Yeah. Well, thanks for having us, and we’ll see you next time.

Speaker 2:           Thanks for listening. And remember, question everything. Well, except what we say.