Boosting your Metabolic Rate Transcript
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ATP Science Episode 32 – Boosting your Metabolic Rate
Welcome to the ATP Project – Episode 32 Basal Metabolic Rate.
In today’s podcast we cover a tonne of ground on the Metabolic Rate:
• Impact of Calorie Restriction and Fasting
• Water and the massive effect it has on your Metabolism, including how much you should consume and whether hot or cold water is better.
• Food Timing, and what the science says about consuming two meals per day as opposed to six meals per day.
• Protein Intake.
• Amazing Herbs like Du-zhong and [Campheral] [0:00:32].
• How to Boost Cyclic AMP.
So, stay tuned, the ATP Project is about to start:
Welcome to the ATP Project, you’re with your hosts Matt and Jeff.
Jeff: Matty, we are talking about the Metabolism.
Jeff: Metabolic Rate.
Jeff: Fat loss.
Jeff: Let’s go.
Matt: Okay. So, what do you want to know?
Jeff: Well, what is the Metabolism, Matt? And, specifically what is the Basal Metabolic Rate? Actually, I might even preface that. I remember many years ago, actually, back in 2003 when I just started my supplement store, I created a 12-week challenge for all of my customers. At the time, EAS actually had a really good one, Bill Phillip’s Body for Life; I don’t know if you remember that one at all? Anyway, to cut a long story short it was a great challenge. The problem was it didn’t focus—I found a lot of people didn’t have it mentally, and so I focused on the mental aspects, “What is your why?” Simon Sinek about why you do the things you do and the importance of understanding your why and making that a central part of everything that you do.
To cut a long story short, I was invited to a women’s night, and the stupid question…
Matt: Is that because you’re a lady?
Jeff: No. Because, they knew that I understand women. Well!
Matt: Bloody hell! So, how did that go?
Jeff: Not real well. I had to hecklers down the front, and I shouldn’t say hecklers, but anyway. Talking to a group of women about weight loss can be a dangerous thing.
Jeff: And, I had these two younger girls down the front, they were in university, or of that age, and they were looking at me seriously like I was disrespecting everybody in the entire room when I mentioned the fact of the importance of water and the impact that it has on the Metabolism. So, after the event everyone was coming up to me asking me about diet, asking me about how you would do it, exercise, all these sorts of things. And, again, we had some great results during the 12-week challenge, and that was the basis of what I was sharing with people, the before and afters, and the people’s results.
Some of the them were fantastic; I still remember Mark Grey, a truck driver who caught a glimpse of himself, he had a massive beer gut and ended up losing all of that, had six pack abs, started with over 20% body fat, ended up at about 8% body fat at the end of that 12-week challenge, and had done just brilliantly, he couldn’t have been happier. So, some of the results of the before and afters were great.
But, these two girls cornered me and said, “Right, you’re talking about the water being powerful for the Metabolism, is that for active or basal?” and I just looked at them and I said, “Well, both,” and they just looked at each other and then kind of walked off in a huff. Now, they were asking that question to trap me, and they did. I had no idea of the difference between—or, what the Basal Metabolic Rate was. So, just in case they came back again, what I actually did—and, this is back in 2003, so there were no Smartphones at this point—I jumped in the car and drove down to work and actually Googled what Basal Metabolic Rate was so that I could answer them more thoroughly.
But, Matt, it is a little bit confusing, so in terms of the Metabolism, what is the Basal Metabolic Rate?
Matt: How much energy does anatomy and physiology take, at either rest or during activity. Of course, there are so many variables with that sort of thing, but, basically, when I say “How much energy does anatomy and physiology take?”—that sounds dumb when I say it like that, but we’re talking about anatomy from structure, so muscle mass, fat mass, bone, you know, how much energy does it take to maintain that tissue, build tissue. And, physiology is function, so everything from the digestive process to organ functioning, they all require energy for those cells to perform their tasks.
Jeff: When most people are talking about Metabolism, Matt, generally speaking it would be revolving around weight loss, or fat loss, specifically, and energy levels. Those would probably be the two things that people would most commonly associate with, “How’s your Metabolism going?” Probably, the ability to digest food, as well, would be there?
Matt: Yeah, that’s right, that’s right.
Jeff: So, let’s talk about the impact of the Metabolic Rate on specifically weight loss, today. Again, in the Southern Hemisphere we’re coming into summer and I think a lot of people are interested in losing weight.
Jeff: Matt, what are some of the things that play a major role on the Metabolism? And, are there ways that we can speed it up, are there ways that—and, would you ever want to slow it down? I guess, if you’ve got Hyperthyroidism you’d want to.
Matt: Yeah. Well, the thing is, with the Metabolic Rate—it depends. Again, we always talk about, “What is your goal?” So, “What are you trying to achieve? Are you trying to achieve muscle gain? Are you trying to achieve fat loss? Are you trying to maintain longevity and general health?”
Jeff: I just heard everybody say, “Both.”
Matt: Everyone says that, it’s funny hey?
Matt: So, basically, you can imagine your Basal Metabolic Rate as the amount of energy that your body utilises. There are so many variables with it, so the type of variables we’re talking about are, priorities – what is your body’s priority? Now, you may have your priority, maybe burning fat, building muscle, but if your body is getting triggers saying, “Inflammation, injury, stress,” blah, blah, blah, that will change your body’s priority, and it may change your body’s priority away from building muscle, preserving fat for long term pleasure and longevity, to short term survival, do whatever you can do to get through today.
So, that’s why I always come back and talk about stress, and then the other things that drive the stressed nervous system like Toxins, Inflammation, and Immune. So, they will change your body’s priorities, as in, you’ve got a certain amount of calories that are coming in, you’ve got a certain amount of calories that have to go out, your body will determine changes in your body composition proportional to your priorities. And, it’s your hormonal profile in your body that will tell us your priorities.
Jeff: So, can we make an assumption that people are on an even keel? So, can we make an assumption that there’s no massive amounts of stress or any acute stress that the individual needs to worry about, and that everything else is in order? So, we can talk about general ways in which we can manipulate the Metabolism to achieve the results that we want?
Matt: Yeah. Well, it’s almost the opposite, like we almost have to assume that everyone’s under stress and inflammation and toxic exposure.
Jeff: Yeah, right.
Matt: So, what actually happens is, things that have been shown and studied, in the general population, to have the ability to drive the Metabolic Rate are things that, actually, often deal with those other aspects like the inflammation and that.
Jeff: That’s a good point.
Matt: So, when you’re doing a study on a person they’re all crook, most of them are crook, even the healthy ones are in a state of dis-ease, even if they’re not in a disease, diseased state as opposed to—you know what I mean?
Jeff: I do. Yeah, it makes sense.
Matt: Basically, what we look at, and some of the most powerful things that have a significant effect on Metabolism also have effects on controlling stressed nervous systems, inflammation and immune activities.
And, I want to talk about some specific herbs and that sort of stuff at some stage…
Jeff: Well, let’s get into that at the back end of the podcast.
Matt: Yeah, cool. We’ll give you exactly the things to do. The biggest debate that I can see, when you look at the literature and when you talk to people who work in the body shaping industry, so we’re talking about coaches and PTs, Naturopaths, Doctors, all of these people, a lot of it is purely talking about energy in and energy out. Now, we have talked a lot about that in regards to Macros and that sort of thing, but what I want people to be aware of is, your Basal Metabolic Rate varies dramatically, there’s so many variables that will come and determine how fast or slow your energy is going to—whether you’re in a phase of conservation or whether you’re in a phase of hunting and gathering. You know what I mean?
Matt: So, there’s a lot of things. And, the funny thing is, when we were talking about the Macros, in previous podcasts, and we talk about it all the time, especially with PTs and Prep coaches, and people always argue and say, “You put someone on a 500 calorie diet they stop losing fat,” and they’re the same people that say, “If you go into a calorie deficit it’s simple mathematics, you’re going to lose weight,” but then those same people will then say, “But, if you go down too extreme your Metabolism shuts down.” So, it always goes back to that same debate, is it calorie in versus calorie out, or, does the calorie in determine the calorie out?
And, there are so many variables with that. For example; you know how they’ve got all this really cool technology to measure how many calories you’re burning, like where they hook you up to a bike and gather your air and everything that comes out of your body and they can determine your calorie utilisation.
When they ‘ve compared that in studies to mathematical equations, meaning–you know how you get people who tell you your Basal Metabolic Rate after they’ll go and do some calliper testing, and people who do skin fold measurements, they might do heights and weights, or they might try to calculate your active tissue mass or calculate how much of your body is muscle mass, and determine your Basal Metabolic Rate from that?
Jeff: BMI, yeah.
Matt: So, when they compare mathematical equations of determining your Basal Metabolic Rate to actual studies on calorie usage and Basal Metabolic Rate, they’re showing a 60 to 65% margin of error.
Jeff: That’s huge.
Matt: So, if you’re looking at someone that’s coming through and giving you a straight out, black and white, answer saying, “Based on your body composition or your muscle mass,” or. “Based on these measurements and a mathematical equation, your Basal Metabolic Rate is this, therefore your calorie requirement per day is this,” and then they go really clever and try to work to be either calorie deficit or calorie surplus to either stimulate weight loss or weight gain, there’s a 60 to 65% accuracy in their calculations, to start with, which means there’s a massive margin of error when you’re looking at calorie requirements. So, the maths isn’t that exact.
So, for people that will come back and say, “It’s simple mathematics, calorie requirement per day is this, calorie intake is this, you’re going to lose weight or gain weight,” there’s a massive variation in the person’s Basal Metabolic Rate. The things that influence that variation in the Basal Metabolic Rate…
Jeff: Well, that’s probably what I want to talk about.
Matt: Yeah, and they’re the things. So, talk about priorities, your body is going determine whether you’re losing muscle or fat depending on stress levels or whatever, you know, priorities and hormonal profiles, but your calorie burning, your calorie burn, or you energy burn throughout the day it’s got so many other variables linking in with what your stomach is telling your body, things that are coming through, like how often you eat, how much your stomach stretches, how your body feels about energy expenditure and whether it needs to be conserving stuff for a rainy day.
So, that’s what leads into things like timing of meals, intermittent fasting, stretch receptors in the stomach, size of meals, digestive enzymes…
Matt: Water intake, all those sort of things, and Macros, yes, is part of it as well. But, there are so many variables that link in just with the control of your Metabolic Rate, and we can try to work through those.
Jeff: One that I’m thinking of with the Macros, when you talk about calories. But, if 2000 calories are coming from refined sugars then you’ve got the hormone aspect of insulin to deal with, as well, too.
Matt: Exactly, yeah.
Jeff: It’s interesting, because I was reading a study which was showing that consuming protein your diet definitely has a thermogenic effect.
Matt: Yeah, yeah.
Jeff: So, again, making sure that you are—and, we’re not disregarding Macros, we know that they’re important, and I think the hyperbole that we make is that, if it fits your Macros you’re missing out on a lot of the things that you need to optimise whatever it is that you’re trying to do, whether that be muscle gain or fat loss, or both, which again, you ask everybody if that’s what they’re trying to do.
Matt: Yeah, sure.
Jeff: Calorie restriction, Matt…
Jeff: As a base foundation, now no two bodies are the same, so obviously working on a calorie restricted diet, again we’re working with some assumptions here, the fact that you understand how many calories you’re burning a day to start with.
Matt: Well, that’s right. Yeah, that’s exactly right. So, we talk about calorie restricted diets but is it really calorie restricted because the calorie restriction is proportional to what they believe is your calorie requirement, and the calorie requirement is calculated based on your Basal Metabolic Rate.
Jeff: But, to be fair, you have to start somewhere.
Jeff: So, better to have, at least, a base line to work with, and this is where, again, we’re talking about working with a Prep coach or working with somebody that can then measure and monitor. So, if you’re not dropping the weight then you go, “Okay, well maybe we’ve set that a little bit too high,” or if you’re dropping too much weight and potential to burn too much muscle tissue, which is also bad, then they go, “You know what, you actually require a little bit more.”
Matt: And, a coach that’s good enough to be able to determine changes in body composition to see if it’s a favourable response or a negative response.
Jeff: Sure. So, for the average people, as well, who aren’t going to get a Prep coach, people who are—and, I’m going to talk a little bit about one of our Reps, Simon Burton, as well. Actually, I caught a photo of him the other day, he was down in a store, and I rang him up and I said, “Simon, you’re looking pretty good, mate,” he’s dropped, since he’s been working with us, which is…
Matt: Too long.
Jeff: Yeah. He’s been working with us coming up to two years.
Matt: Holy struth. Really?
Jeff: Yeah, it was the 1st of January 2014.
Matt: Bloody hell.
Jeff: Yeah, so it’s coming up to two years. He said, “Yeah, Jeff I’ve actually lost 12 kilos since I’ve started working with you,” and I said, “Mate, what have you done differently?” and he goes, “Well, I’m flat out at the gym for half an hour once a week.” Because, Simon’s actually nearly a professional golfer, for those of you who don’t know him. He works for us, he’s great rep down in Victoria and in Australia.
Matt: A stand-up comedian.
Jeff: Yeah, well maybe you’d like to think so. But, he’s the average guy, he’s not someone who wants to go out and throw weights around, but obviously he wants to be healthy and look good, and he said, “Honestly Jeff, there’s two things that I’ve done: I’ve reduced the amount of carbohydrates that I was consuming from pasta and bread, so I’ve pretty well knocked them on the head, and I always take my evening walk, but I’ve always done that. But, the only other thing I’ve done is added in some supplements.” And, again, we’re going to get into the benefits of utilising supplements and how they can help with your Metabolic Rate.
And, this is the thing Matt, we want to be able to appeal not only to the people who are going to get up on stage and who are tackling their fitness extremely well, but also people like Simon who want to lose 10 or 15 kilos and do it in a way that’s easy to maintain, in that they can make it part of their lifestyle without feeling like they have to sacrifice everything and no long have any fun or enjoyment. So, Calorie Restricted Diet, Intermittent Fasting. And again, I think we need to put a whole podcast towards that, because the impacts I’m reading about—I’m reading a guy’s thesis at the moment who’s actually a body builder, and some of the benefits he’s talking about with intermittent fasting are so huge that let’s commit that to a whole podcast.
Matt: Yeah, and the research is still ongoing, so we’ve still got to get to the bottom of it before we make any assumptions that we know how it works.
Jeff: So, let’s talk about some other foundation things then. So, if we’re Restricting Calories and we’re eating a relatively sensible diet, what about water intake, Matt? Talk about water and the importance that water has in terms Metabolic Rate.
Matt: Well, regardless of Metabolic Rate, water is an essential thing, of course, we die without it. But, 60 to 70 % of our body could be made up of water, our circulation, our ability to remove and dilute toxic material through our lymphatics, there are just so many important functions of it.
What I want to talk about in regards to water is around mealtime, because it’s a question I get asked all the time. It’s a freaky thing, there are so many wive’s tales, or folk lore, everything about drinking with meals.
Jeff: And, should you be drinking hot water, should you be drinking cold water?
Jeff: Again, I’ve heard lots of stuff too, Matt.
Matt: If we have a look at the digestive tract itself, when we talk about Basal Metabolic Rate your digestion and your digestive tract can consume a bulk amount of calories in the process of digestion and that sort of stuff.
Jeff: So, it uses them up while you’re eating?
Matt: Exactly. That’s why you talk about some foods, for example, provide negative calories, like celery and a lot of those other herbs that take more calories to chew them than you’re ever going to get out of them, you chew them and digest them.
Jeff: And that’s true?
Matt: Yeah, that’s real because it takes a lot of energy, actually, for the digestive process.
Jeff: Salads and stuff like that, obviously?
Matt: Yeah. So, basically, with water there is some really cool research. I wanted to actually do a bit of a joke around April Fool’s Day, but when it came around I forgot what my plan was.
Jeff: What a surprise.
Matt: Yeah, but it was awesome at the time. But, there was a really, really cool study that came out confirming that drinking 500mls of water before a meal showed significant effects for fat loss, and it was one of the better studies done, it showed really good effects. But, water’s ability to stimulate the Basal Metabolic Rate…
Jeff: Half an hour before a meal?
Matt: Yeah. So, they had 500mls of water half an hour before the meal, and these people felt fuller, they ate less but they maintained a faster Metabolic Rate and they burnt good calories, and it’s a very good study. So, I wanted to release a heap of diet water…
Jeff: Diet water?
Matt: Because, the funny thing is, with my dramas that I have with regulatory affairs and things like that, the studies on this product showed a better therapeutic good than a lot of the studies that were done on other pharmaceuticals and herbs and everything like that. So, I thought it would be quite funny.
Jeff: Almost as good as placebo?
Matt: Yeah, well I thought it would be kind of funny to be able to get an Aust L listing or something for water, and then pump it out as a therapeutic good.
Jeff: Make all these claims.
Matt: And, just see what…
Jeff: What happened?
Matt: Yeah, see what happens, what the fall out was. But, anyway it would have been funny. The theories are, basically with your Digestive Tract, people always worry about diluting digestive enzymes.
Jeff: Well, I was going to ask you about that.
Matt: Yeah, well this is the thing, everyone asks. That’s why I assumed someone would ask. But, basically what happens is, when you put 500mls worth of water in your stomach half an hour before you eat, what’s happening is it starts stretching the stomach, that’s one of the ways your stomach knows food’s coming. The stretching of the stomach will determine how much food has ended up in your stomach, and the proportion of stretching will determine how many enzymes and acid you release.
So yeah, the water, of course it dilutes it, you’re throwing water on it, that’s going to dilute whatever you put it on.
Jeff: And, it’s acids, right?
Matt: So, you’re diluting the acid and you’re diluting the enzymes, but as you’re stretching the stomach the stomach will compensate by making more acid and enzymes to be proportional to the stretch.
Jeff: Oh, that’s interesting.
Matt: But, because the water doesn’t actually have protein, carbs and fats and everything in it, you’re creating more digestive enzymes, you’re using more energy to go through that process, and then what actually happens is, by creating more of those enzymes improves digestion later. Also, the stretch receptors will tell your body that you’re well fed, you don’t need to go into conservation mode, to a certain degree, so it keeps your Metabolic Rate working.
Jeff: High, no hand brake?
Matt: That’s right, yeah.
Jeff: That’s interesting.
Matt: And, that’s a fact. Whether it’s hot or cold is a weird one. In my Naturopathic Clinic—now, in traditional Chinese Medicine and Ayurvedic and all traditional medicine systems they describe the stomach as a pot that’s got to cook everything up to be soup. So, I always imagine that pot on the stove, and if I’m trying to boil a pot full of all my vegetables and meat to totally turn that into soup, and I keep adding cold water on top the thing never bloody boils, does it?
Matt: This is the paradox. Because, it takes energy to heat that water.
Matt: And, this is the debate, and I’m not saying it’s all black and white, but I just want to create the discussion because people will have a go.
Jeff: The thing I love about body builders, though, Matt, the thing I love about them and people who are training, and, for the last 15 years I’ve always said this, they are prepared to trial and error with their own bodies, they’re prepared to go on anecdotal data because they know their body so well.
Matt: Yeah, that’s what I was about to say. Because, I could get other people if I want to experiment on the body but they’ve got no idea so they can’t measure the change. Body builders have their body so finely tuned that they know when things are changing; that’s what I love about athletes.
Jeff: What you’re saying about the Digestive Enzyme, and I’m just going to throw back alittle bit , I talk to a lot of the guys who add in things like Digestive Enzymes, and HCL Hydrochloric Acids and stuff like that, to improve the digestion, especially if they’re about to have a large meat meal.
Jeff: So, could you say then, that consuming half a litre of warm or hot water half an hour before might actually help digestion anyway?
Matt: Yeah, that’s right, it might. Because, the thing is, and I’m glad you said hot or warm, because, around meals I always tell people it’s got to be as hot as you possibly can handle. Now, in theory, talking about the ability for that stomach to be able to heat that water might burn more calories in that process, because that’s a thermogenic process that your body will use, thermogenesis is converting stored fat to heat and that would actually need to use a process like that, generating a lot of heat, to heat up the water in your stomach.
But, there’s this nerve, the Vegas Nerve that goes from your tongue all the way through your Digestive Tract, and it controls the amount of blood flow and the amount of nerve activity that goes into your stomach that controls your ability to make Digestive Enzymes.
Cold water will shut down that nerve. So, if you put cold water straight in or ice or something like that, it shuts down the nerve and that constricts all the blood vessels into the stomach, and basically tells the stomach—it switches it off. And, that process then means, by default, the Sympathetic Nervous System and their periphery gets all the blood, gets all the energy.
Matt: So, adding cold drinks in and cold foods and that sort of stuff around meals will shut down that stomach temporarily.
Jeff: Wow! So, having an icy cold drink during summer with your meal is probably not a good idea?
Matt: That’s right. So, I always say have a hot—and, you even think about it. I never forget, I used to go to Sizzler with my sister, and my sister’s got a fast Metabolism, she’s lean, she can smash Sizzler, kill me on Sizzler, so I used to try to eat heaps. And, what would be really funny, I worked out she had this strategy, that when she got really, really full she’d move over and move onto ice cream, because what happened, as soon as you put the ice cream in it dampens the fire in the stomach, and then what happens, as the stomach tries to reheat it goes and triggers all these extra acid and enzymes later as a process of reheating the stomach, and it makes you hungry again.
So, a classic feature of people that have cold drinks with their meals or bad digestion, low stomach acid, is they have their meal and they get full quickly and full easily, but then they start to get hungry again shortly after. So, it’s happening as the foods or the cold drinks and that sort of stuff hits the stomach, the stomach then takes a while to heat it back up and get the acid and enzymes out and that then eventually registers back in the brain as hunger.
Jeff: So, this must be incredibly important, Matt, for people with Leaky Gut and other gut issues as well too, because you don’t want their pockets of food there fermenting or not digesting properly.
Matt: Yeah, but also too, the more often you’re stimulating that Vegas Nerve to increase blood flow and activity in the stomach the more likely you are to regenerate your gut wall.
Jeff: I have to ask a question. In terms of best practice to increase the Metabolism is to have a hot or warm drink half an hour before. We also spoke about the preparation of foods in another podcast, Matt, using things like Miso soup would be ideal then, because not only are you getting the warmth, which is hitting the Vegas Nerve and preparing the stomach for food, but you’re getting all the other bitters and stuff like that as well too?
Matt: And, that’s the other key feature; the Vegas Nerve starts in the bitter taste buds of your tongue, and the other way of increasing—so, you can physically activate the Vegas Nerve through heat, and I think you can hit it with a stick in your eye, there’s a part of the nerve you can hit there, but, I don’t think it helps digestion.
Matt: But, don’t do that. Do your disclaimer thing, Jeff.
Matt: Don’t do a stick in your eye. But, I’ll tell you what you can do, use something bitter or something acidic in with the warm water, so the combination of the heat with the acid and the bitter activates the Vegas Nerve, brings the blood into the stomach and enhances your digestion. Because, your stomach and the way your stomach stretches and the way the receptors in your stomach tell your body what you’ve eaten, how much you’ve eaten, when you’ve eaten it, will have a massive effect on your Basal Metabolic Rate.
For example; there’s heaps of cool research coming out recently on people with gastric bypass, so they’ve actually had a sleeve or they’ve done something to actually control the size of the stomach and control the amount the stomach will stretch. And, that will then, indirectly, control appetite and cravings and all that sort of stuff.
And, what’s wild is when you look at calories in versus calories out, as soon as you put someone into a calorie deficit, providing that your mathematics is correct, the short term effects of calorie deficit is that your total energy expenditure is reduced.
Matt: So, you know how I was saying before, you measure your Basal Metabolic Rate, you cut your calories, then your Basal Metabolic Rate drops, it may drop below your calories, and then you wonder why you’ve hit a plateau and then you drop the calories again, and it gets to a point where you’ve shut down your Basal Metabolic Rate, and that’s when you decide to compete…
Jeff: And, we’ve seen that a lot.
Matt: And, then you come out after competition, put your calories back up, but your Basal Metabolic Rate has been shut down because of the calorie depravation leading into that. So, in the short term what happens is, you reduce total energy expenditure, but what your body does, adaptation in the long term, it tells your body to actually utilise less energy doing normal tasks, so it slows down your whole body. So, in the short term, yeah, you get a slower Metabolic Rate but in the long term you become more efficient at using less energy.
So, that contributes to fatigue and weakness and all that sort of stuff, but it reduces the energy cost of movement, which means you burn less calories on the treadmill, you burn less calories through your exercise. Which means, you’ve either got to exercise with a greater intensity, and what most people would do then is cut the calories back again.
Jeff: Even more, there’s the cycle.
Matt: There’s another school of thought, where it’s like, “Actually, let’s just jack the calories up…
Jeff: I’ve seen this reverse dieting.
Matt: And, you’ll get a Basal Metabolic Rate…
Jeff: Have you heard of this?
Matt: Yeah, yeah. That’s the whole thing. The point is, you’ve got to screw around with the body because it’s constantly doing adaptation. So, don’t go too much and be too arrogant with your maths and think that your mathematical equation that you learnt from someone is the only one that’s real and accurate, because none of them are.
Jeff: And, talking about exercise, as well, Matt, as part of that Metabolic thing, you’re talking about changing things up?
Jeff: I’ve heard a lot of really good exercise physiologists and Prep coaches and that say as well, too, “What’s best? Steady state cardio or high intensity?” Both. And, it’s funny because I saw some resource showing that steady state cardio, when done over a prolonged period of time, again that negative feedback, that constant stimulant coming in, the body becomes Adaptogenic to that and it becomes less effective.
With high density cardio I haven’t seen any studies that say that, but they’re suggesting that using a combination of high intensity and steady state works better. Now, depending on the individual, like Ann Marie again, and I mentioned this before, hates high intensity cardio because it makes her muscles look stringy and it doesn’t quite work for her.
Matt: Yeah, exactly. So, you’ve got to keep mixing it around.
Matt: So, regarding those gastric bypass people, because they’ve got this band on the stomach that controls the amount of calories they’re capable of consuming, and yeah, they lose weight and everything, but across the board the actual shrinking of the stomach reduces their Basal Metabolic Rate.
Jeff: Oh wow!
Matt: So yeah, they change body composition because of the calorie deficits and things like that, in most cases, but their Basal Metabolic Rate is actually slower. I tell you what, there’s another interesting study; they compared calorie deficit to gastric bypass and which one burnt more fat. So, what that basically means is, the people that had the gastric bypass they ate the same amount of calories as the people on a calorie deficit. So, one group had a smaller stomach that’s why they’re eating less calories, and the other group just had to eat less calories.
The people with the gastric bypass lost a lot more weight and fat than the people that just went on calorie restriction.
Matt: Because, the stomach and everything, because it was determining and saying to the body, “Hey, that’s actually normal. You’ve got the right amount of calories compared to how much you’ve eaten. So, your stomach is small, this is the right amount of calories for you, don’t freak out.” Where, the group that went on calorie restriction…
Jeff: Starvation mode.
Matt: They went into starvation mode.
Matt: And, the starvation mode activates the HPA Stress Axis, that releases all the stress hormones like Cortisol, that is basically saying, “Hang on, this is not right. Your stomach is telling us there should be calories here but there’s not.” Because, what happens, these people spend a period of time and they get a bigger stomach, the stomach gets larger, the stomach is constantly telling the body—the stomach is telling us, “You should have more calories in your body than you actually do,” and that creates a stress mode starvation mode, even if they’re eating adequate calories because of the size of the stomach.
Jeff: So, the fascinating thing is, obviously two points here; firstly, how do you shrink the stomach, and Matt, obviously over time if you’re eating less and then the stomach goes, “Well I don’t need to be as big so I can get smaller, and then the other thing to do, is filling up the stomach, which people have always talked about using things like fibres and other things like that, but consuming the water gives you that feeling of fullness in the stomach.
Matt: So, what we’ve got to understand is, the body’s split between the Parasympathetic Nervous System to control digestion and sleep and everything. The Sympathetic Nervous System to control energy expenditure and all that sort of thing.
So, basically, what we’ve got to understand is, around meal times, when it’s digestion time, we want to get out of stress, work, go, go, go mode, and right into rest and digest via the Vegas Nerve.
Matt: But, away from mealtime you want to be driving that Sympathetic Nervous System and keeping the blood and everything away from your stomach and into your muscles and brain to keep you working and thinking and keeping your Metabolic Rate running high.
Jeff: So, if that’s true then my hypothesis, Matt, is consume ice cold water.
Matt: Away from meals.
Jeff: Away from meals?
Matt: Yeah. So, at least an hour after a meal.
Jeff: And, what that’s also going to do then is, if our temperature is 36 point whatever, if we’ve taken really cold water the body will then naturally work hard to take that ice cold water and actually…
Jeff: So, that will create Thermogenesis just in consuming ice cold water?
Matt: Yeah, and that will increase your Basal Metabolic Rate.
Jeff: And, it will keep you full?
Matt: Yeah, but if you have hot water with something bitter and sour with your meals your digestion is going to work better, you’re going to get good acid and enzymes, you’re actually going to have a better digestive process.
Jeff: That’s cool. I love it.
Matt: Which means, less bloating, less fermentation later that might trick the body into thinking your stomach’s full.
Jeff: That’s great.
Matt: Unless, digestive enzyme and acid production within that half hour after eating that might trick you into thinking you need desert. Because, if you imagine this, if your digestion is shitty and you go and eat your meal you get quite full, it’s not digesting properly, then it moves past the stomach within half an hour or an hour, but then the acid and enzymes start and that registers back in your brain as hunger, as if you have an empty stomach, I haven’t eaten.
Matt: That’s why people will have something to eat and then go, “Gee, I just need something…
Jeff: Something sweet.
Matt: “I just need something else, now I’m ready for desert,” or, “I need that coffee after my meal,” or whatever, because the acid and enzymes come in.
Jeff: It’s amazing, Matt, how often we talk about the digestion and the stomach and just the role and the importance of it.
So, the summary, in terms of water, warm water, potentially something like Miso soup or something with bitters in it, half an hour before food means you’re going to eat less but it’s also going to improve digestive enzymes and it’s going to mean that you’re less likely to want to eat food after that meal or go for a second round that you don’t really need because you’ve improved your digestion and the body is saying, “You’re good.”
Jeff: Consuming cold water outside of meal times, ice cold water, is going to increase Thermogenesis because the body has to heat the water and it’s also going to keep the blood away from the stomach.
Matt: Yeah. It’s wild, I know.
Jeff: That’s pretty cool.
Matt: Yeah it is, it’s cool man.
Jeff: And, obviously giving all the other benefits as well: lots of water flushing out toxins, transport of water soluble vitamins around the body, uptake of nutrients into the muscle cell. We already know that hydration plays a massive part in muscle strength, so if you’re training and you’re doing weight bearing exercises that’s going to be the uptake of Amino Acids into the muscle cell, and the more muscle mass you have the higher your Metabolic Rate is because muscle is active, it’s constantly consuming and burning calories.
Matt: Yeah, that’s right.
Jeff: So, probably the most effective supplement for weight loss, that I’ve heard in a very long time, is water and then followed by placebo.
Matt: Yeah. Oh, placebo is only 10 to 15%.
Jeff: It’s still pretty good.
Matt: Yeah, it does it on everything. So, it’s interesting. So, basically, regulating your stomach size and everything like that…
Jeff: How long does it take your stomach to shrink, Matt?
Matt: It depends what’s in it.
Matt: But, the other thing is, what you were talking about before, a lot of these appetite suppressant products that are on the market are designed to keep your stomach full and bloated between meals.
Jeff: This is a good point; you’ve mentioned this to me before.
Matt: So, this is the big thing, if you’ve got these things coming in fermenting and filling up and bloating your stomach between meals they’re activating stretch receptors, they’re activating these things, they’re keeping you in that Parasympathetic Nerve activity, they’re keeping things churning around your stomach. I don’t know about you, but if I ever have one of those Fibersol things that are marketed as an appetite suppressant I get so damn hungry because my stomach is sitting there churning and doing things. So, you’re probably better off avoiding those sort of things and using appetite suppressants that actually work by supporting your Sympathetic Nervous System keeping you going and preserving your energy.
Jeff: You’ve reminded me of a product that came out that was very popular a while ago called, Faseolamine. Now, that was a white kidney bean extract was designed to take at the same time as carbohydrates.
Matt: Beans make you fart.
Jeff: Absolutely. And, the problem was, the body wouldn’t release the enzyme to help digest the carbohydrates and as a result…
Matt: And, what happens…
Jeff: Fermentation in the gut.
Matt: Yeah, instant Thrush, man, for those predisposed to Candida and that sort of stuff, and Irritable Bowel, Inflammatory Bowel. Kidney beans, any of that, the beans make you fart because they stop you absorbing Carbs and then those Carbs feed the bugs and that ferments, and that makes gas, it makes bloating, it makes farting, it feeds the bugs that cause Thrush, Urinary Tract infections, Inflammatory Bowel Disease.
Jeff: See, it comes back, Matt, to the holistic view that we have, that good health creates good bodies with intelligence.
Jeff: So, rather than try and consume a product like Faseolamine, the white kidney bean extract, so that you won’t digest the Carbohydrates that you’ve just eaten, which is stupid, I mean as people we do some strange things. But, it’s creating a bad environment inside the gut which is stuffing up your digestion and you’re going to pay for that.
Matt: Yeah, that’s right.
Jeff: Matt, so that’s water. What about Food Timing and the amount of foods?
Matt: I’m going to screw with you before we talk about that.
Matt: What about alcohol?
Jeff: I love alcohol, thank you.
Matt: What do you reckon it does to your Basal Metabolic Rate? Because, you look at it as a Macro, you could even call it the fourth Macro.
Jeff: There’s seven calories per ml of Alcohol, so it’s weird, it’s kind of got no Carbs.
Matt: Yeah, it’s got no Carbs, Proteins, Fats as such, but it’s got calories. So, it’s got a Calorific value.
Jeff: Well, I would imagine you’re going to give me some bad news here, because I am partial to a bit of red wine. And look, it’s like anything, moderation.
Matt: Stop giving excuses, you don’t know the answer yet.
Jeff: No, I don’t. I’m not going to like it but go on, Matt.
Matt: They’ve done studies where people have had their Calories and that sort of stuff set and they ‘ve gone and added Alcohol in either consistently or short term binging and that sort of stuff. The Alcohol did not influence their body composition as much.
Jeff: Get out.
Matt: Nowhere near as much as we thought. Alcohol was nowhere near as fattening as people believed. The reason why is because by putting in the extra Calories it was actually increasing the Basal Metabolic Rate. So, the people who at times consumed Alcohol they actually had a faster Basal Metabolic Rate.
Jeff: So, you’re saying, “Drink Alcohol to get skinny”?
Matt: Yeah. Why drink water, is what I’m saying. Because, you can stretch your stomach with Alcohol.
Jeff: Well, red wine, I mean typically you’re drinking that at room temperature. So, a little bit of red wine before a meal?
Matt: Yeah. Bitter, isn’t it?
Jeff: Good for your stomach? I don’t know.
Jeff: Oh Matt, it’s got this amazing thing in it called Rosentherasol.
Matt: Oh I have–the doses you’ll get out of red wine are correct, which is approximately, I think, 75mg per 100ml, or something, which is round about the dose we use, not these thousands of mgs people are putting in capsules.
Jeff: Right, so a little bit, again.
Matt: So, you’ve got to use a little bit Rosentherasol.
Jeff: And, not only that, surely you’d be getting some of the Proanthocyanidins from the grapes.
Matt: Yeah, you just keep telling yourself whatever you want to hear. But, what I’m telling you, I’m just giving the thing…
Jeff: I’m convinced. All I heard was, “Drink red wine every meal and I’m going to get skinny.”
Matt: That’s interesting eh, all I’m showing is—I’m just trying to screw with people, because we go and talk about how people try to make things black and white and say, “These are your Calories that you burn in a day.” Well, for starters, “That’s bullshit, you’re telling me that at a 60 to 65% accuracy. So, if you’re going to tell me this is my Calorie requirement for a day, and then you’re going to tell me how much Calories, already that’s wrong.”
So, we’ve got to screw around, we’ve got to measure these things, we’ve got to monitor and that. You know what I mean?
Jeff: Yeah, I do. But, we talk to Chris Thomas, we talk to these Prep coaches, and they know that too, but they say, “Here’s a starting point, and they’ll do all the calliper tests and all the rest of it so they get a good indication of where you’re at, and according to their expert eye as well, Matt, then they’ll say, “Right, here’s where we’re going to start you in the measure.” Most people don’t have a Chris Thomas they’re talking to.
Matt: No, that’s right. And, that’s a big point I want to get to people. There’s all these things online or whatever you can find where you can put in some data and it will tell you what your Basal Metabolic Rate is, it’ll guess your Active Tissue Mass and Fat Percentage, and from there it will say, “This is your Basal Metabolic Rate.” From there you can calculate your Calories, and then people go, “Oh my goodness, my Calories are in deficit and I’m working like a demon and it’s all bullshit, I must have a thyroid disorder.”
Jeff: But, surely Matt, it’s better to do than—I mean what else are you going to do? Nothing?
Matt: What I’m trying to say is, you’ve got to start somewhere, like you’re saying, but it’s all about not getting caught up in the numbers game and understanding that we’re humans and there are so many variables, have a look outside the box, but constantly just change and adapt and get to learn your body. But, work with good coaches, that does make a big difference.
Jeff: And again, even if you can’t or you don’t want to, take a measurement yourself, and instead of using the scales, which again—and, you’ll hear this—if you’re on our podcast you’ll probably have this as an understanding, and go, “Dah, Jeff, of course.” But, use a tape measure instead rather than just using the scales.
Matt: Yeah, that’s right.
Jeff: If you use the scales, use both.
Matt: Take multiple measurements; the more different ways you measure the closer you’re going to get to having and accurate reading.
Jeff: Well, if you look at a Prep coach, typically they’re using calliper tests and they’re usually taking seven or nine sites or something like that.
Matt: That’s why BMI is bullshit, whatever BMI stands for, Body Mass Index. I can’t remember which one squared, but it’s height over weight squared, I think, or something stupid. Who cares? It’s height and weight, they’re the two measurements. According to me and my BMI I’m too short. That’s the problem with that. So, what does that tell us about muscle mass, fat mass? It’s absolute rubbish.
The other thing we get asked about all the time, is the timing, like, “When do we eat?” “How often do we eat?”
Jeff: Well, okay. So, we’re going into food now?
Matt: Let’s do it.
Jeff: Alright. So, Matt, it’s interesting as well, too. You go to the internet, and I always like going in there because that’s where most people go for their information, but you’ve got well known celebrity people who’ve been Biggest Loser, and I’m talking about the American one now, who say absolutely a load of crap that small regular eating does not improve weight loss. And, then you’ve got other people who say absolutely, small regular meals is the way to lose.
Now, just from my basic understanding from the 12 week challenges that I’ve done, from working with people like Chris, small regular meals definitely seem to stimulate at least my appetite, and I find that when I eat small regular meals like that I’m losing weight. Now, you could argue that’s because I’m eating a better quality of food, I’m upping my protein, which we know is also Thermogenic as well. But Matt, what’s the research?
Matt: Who am I to argue with that, really?
Jeff: But, that’s all anecdotal, I don’t have any research.
Matt: This is the funny thing, and research is good because what it will do is it will give us statistical analysis across a population, but just be aware that everyone is different.
Jeff: Yeah, true.
Matt: But, across the population—this has been a hard one to work out, studies haven’t been awesome. I think, even this year, there was a study published that basically compared the same Calories…
Jeff: So, 2000 Calories?
Matt: Consumed either in two meals per day or six meals a day. And, what they showed after what I think was a 12-week study, was that over the 12 weeks either eating twice a day or six times a day showed insignificant differences between how much weight they lost, total body weight, and showed negligible differences for Resting Blood Sugar and Resting Insulin and Cholesterol, no difference.
What they did find, though, different was what type of weight the person lost.
Jeff: Well there you go.
Matt: And, when they did this study what they found was, the people that ate only two meals per day lost, on average, 3 to 3.5% Fat Free Mass. So, they lost 3 to 5% body weight of muscle.
Matt: Where the people that ate six meals a day put on 1.2% of Active Tissue Mass. So, the same weight loss and that, but the difference is, in the people that were consuming small regular meals they preserved their lean muscle mass.
Jeff: And, for people who are not body builders or getting into the gym who don’t care about the aesthetics of the muscle, housewives, average guys, women who are corporate, who aren’t training for muscle, they’re going, “Well, I don’t care,” but you should, because let’s face it, muscle drives your Metabolism, and the more Lean Muscle Tissue that you have you want to look after that.
Matt: Oh mate, but not only that, you’ve got to understand, with muscle you’ve got a certain window of opportunity to build muscle, and then you’ve got to preserve the stuff. It’s hard to build muscle for the average person past a certain age, but the big thing is, you’ve got to understand that Muscle Mass will prevent most age related disorders as well. Yeah, with good Muscle Mass you don’t get Osteoporosis, you get good Muscle Mass you don’t get Diabetes, because if you blood sugar goes high your muscle takes the sugar.
Jeff: Thanks very much. As opposed to the fat…
Matt: The same with Blood Pressure, if Blood Pressure goes high your muscle can act as a reservoir for the extra blood. So, Muscle Mass is amazingly important for prevention of age related disorders. It’s also a marker of how old you are; we use Muscle Mass as a marker for your biological age, the more muscle you lose the older you’re getting. The more muscle you’ve got the younger your biological age is because we know it will improve your quality of life and significantly affect longevity.
Not only that, but your ability to keep that weight off is dependent on your Muscle Mass, and that’s what you’re saying, if you go and strip out that Muscle Mass, yeah, you’ve lost the weight, you’re just as happy on the scales as the next person but the next person is going to keep his off because his muscle that he’s maintained is going to be eating up the rest of the fat, and they may continue to actually lose weight, whereas the person who lost the Muscle Mass as part of the Calorie restriction probably will rebound and put weight back on.
Jeff: So, you can tell with that study. Obviously that was done over X period of time, 30, 60, 90 days or whatever it was, but those two lines would start separating on the graph and you would see that the person who maintains more Muscle Mass would significantly decrease, or at least maintain, their Body Fat Ratio, whereas, the person who’s lost the muscle tissue would, eventually, start putting more fat back on.
Matt: Yeah, absolutely. That’s how you get the yoyo dieting and the rebounding that everyone talks about.
Jeff: It’s really interesting, I was reading through the week, and this was done last year, I believe, the guy who lost about 60 pounds doing the McDonalds diet only. Did you hear about that, Matt?
Matt: Oh yeah, you told me. You showed me his photo.
Jeff: Yeah, you might have had more of an insight than me, but before I showed you the photo. So, this is interesting, Spurlock, Supersize Me, about 10 years ago. He showed the dangers of consuming too much fast food. This guy has taken the reverse attitude, he’s restricted his Calories, so he’s gone, “If you fit my Macros,” and he’s gone down to 2000 Calories a day or less. Interestingly enough, not only did he lose 60 pounds of weight over what I think was 12 weeks, also his Cholesterol improved, his Blood Pressure improved, actually everything improved obviously because he was losing weight.
Now it’s funny, some of the criticism that’s come, which is probably duly deserved, because if you’re just eating from McDonalds there are a lot of things that you’re not going to be getting, a lot of your Micros, and in fact we should do a podcast about Micros.
Matt: That’s a really good idea.
Jeff: And again, the long term benefits are going to diminish. In the short term, sure you might lose body weight, you might lose fat, but then the problems, in terms of your Coenzymes, your Nutrients, all those things, can manifest in other problems. I would imagine his gut health wouldn’t be particularly good, either. Food Inc is one that comes to mind where they talk about McDonalds washing the meat in Ammonia so that it would last longer, and consuming Ammonia, Matt, that’s bleach basically, what’s that going to do to your gut?
Matt: Yeah, we make a shitload of Ammonia too.
Matt: I do it all the time, you know, eat clean.
Jeff: Nice, Ammonia. But, it’s just interesting to look at that in terms of Calorie restriction. But, there is an important thing to take away from that, and this is the point that I’m getting to, for the everyday person it’s about moderation in terms of your food, you don’t have to eat like a saint, and this is one of the things that I found with a lot of the, should I say, more average people, guys or girls that might be training once or twice a week, or maybe not going to the gym at all but take their dog for a walk, they want to lose some weight, they want to sharpen things up. If they set the bar too high, in terms that they have to be eating chicken and salad every meal and they can’t have a glass of wine or they’re not allowed a movie night or go and eat a piece of pizza. The problem is, and this is the psychology we were talking about before, once the do that, Matt, they’ve broken the barrier, all of a sudden that’s it, “I’m useless, I can’t do it,” and so the diet goes out the window.
Jeff: This is the thing I liked about Simon, and about some other people that I’ve dealt with, is that they’ve actually incorporated into a lifestyle, which means that, sure you’re going to have your glass of red wine or your beer, but you’re just making better decisions over a longer period of time.
Matt: Yeah. And, that’s what I always used to say in the Naturopath Clinic, everything in moderation including moderation. So, if you moderate yourself to have a cheap meal on a particular night every week, if Simon is passionate about his one-day training every week and it’s on the same day every week, our bodies are such an adaptive organism we will begin to adapt to whatever we put in. So, the big thing is to keep chopping and changing, keep screwing the body around a little bit, switching up the time of the day that you’re training, the time of the day you’re eating, and screwing around with when you have a cheap meal and how big it is, how often it is, and making sure you miss a couple of weeks here and there, so the body’s not assuming, “I’m going to have my reload night.”
So, you’ve got to keep the Adaptive Organism on it’s toes otherwise you’re just going to adapt to your moderation.
Jeff: Yeah, makes sense.
Matt: That’s the same with everything, especially with all this new research and that with the intermittent fasting, missing a day here and there, or people that don’t sleep, all that sort of stuff has a massive influence on your Adaptive Organism.
Jeff: Sleep, let’s talk about that. Sleep, in terms of its effect on your Metabolic Rate and that.
Jeff: I know that when you sleep, obviously, hormones are being produced and it’s incredibly important quality sleep.
Jeff: How does sleep effect the Metabolism?
Matt: Well, basically, a couple of things will happen: when you’re sleeping, again, you’re doing an intermittent fasting. Okay?
Matt: That’s why we call it Break Fast, when we get up in the morning.
Jeff: Yeah, well I call it Breakfast.
Matt: I call it Break Fast. I’ve got to break this fast, you know.
Jeff: He wants to ‘break fast’.
Matt: Cereal. That’s bad. But anyway, what were we talking about? So, basically while you’re asleep there’s nothing coming in, no food, hopefully; I don’t know. Anyway, there’s no food coming in so, basically, no insulin, no other hormones, and what happens is everything gets a chance—all the receptors for the hormones that your body is exposed to all day get a chance to reset. So, basically, it’s very, very important for Insulin sensitivity, having the ability to sleep well at night will determine how your body responds to food. For example, there are studies showing that the same meal eaten at night compared to eaten in the morning—if that meal is eaten in the morning it gives a greater increase to the Basal Metabolic Rate, it creates less sugar, less Insulin and less fat than that exact same meal eaten in the evening. Because, what’s happening, by the evening, you’ve spent all day with your body exposed to Insulin and Cortisols and all that sort of stuff, so you’ve got a lot of resistance, or Insulin Resistance, you’ve got a lot of hormonal resistance, your receptors are nowhere near as sensitive to the chemicals because it’s been seeing them all day. After you’ve had an eight or 10 hour break from these chemicals all of a sudden the little receptors and the antennas on the cells are going, “I haven’t seen Insulin for eight or 10 hours, where the hell is it?” and then when it comes out its super sensitive to it and responds very well to it.
Matt: So, that’s why having a sleep is a mini fast and it gives a chance for those things to reset. And, a bit part of that is having our Cortisol level drop really, really low throughout the evening. So, somewhere throughout the evening when you go into a deep sleep you’ll get extremely low levels of Cortisol, and that’s why, basically, it gives a chance for all those receptors then to reset.
Jeff: I’m fascinated, Matt. Somewhere in the back of my mind I’m going, “Okay, so there’s got to be an optimal diet in terms of timing of Macronutrients, timing of Micronutrients maybe even.
Matt: Yeah, there is.
Jeff: Like timing of Intermittent Fasting, maybe using a day fast or two days of fast a week.
Matt: But, do you know what it would take to work it out?
Jeff: What’s that?
Matt: Constant testing and measuring.
Jeff: Yeah, right.
Matt: So, the way to do it would be calculating your hormonal profile at the time of the meal and go, “Right, right now my body’s priority is this, let’s work with my body,” and that’s the whole thing it’s trying to work with the body, and that’s why it’s so important to listen to your body. That’s why some of the best athletes that I’ve ever worked with, and even people that have got this ability to screw with their body so effectively. Like, when I was speaking with Mick Galli, I talk to him a fair bit—we also call him Mary Lou—but, when I talk to Mary Lou about this sort of thing he’s not a big one for just giving people strict instructions and doing mathematics. I thought he was lazy, he’s going, “I’m not going to go and calculate mathematics, just eat this and see how you go.” Mick’s got that ability to go through and write up a bit of a diet plan and talk to you and manipulate it, he doesn’t bother with a lot of the testing and measuring and that sort of stuff.
When I asked him why he works differently to other people he was explaining to me, with his experience, he has the ability to get up, look in the mirror, and just determine how to manipulate his Macros and Calories for that day to be able to shift water and shift everything like that, and he’s got that ability to do it with his clients as well. Everyone is different, but what I’m saying is, there’s a certain level of intelligence that you get to. So, when people think they know—when you get a certain amount of knowledge it becomes dangerous and you think, “Mate, I know how to use this hammer, everything looks like nails, bang, bang, bang, bang, that’s what I’m going to do.” Then, you get people like Mick who have been in the industry long enough, worked with enough people to come out the other end and go, “Well, it’s not that –you know, there’s a little bit more thinking, a little bit more experimenting, it’s not black and white.” And, then you get to a point where you know enough to realise, “I have no idea. I do not know everything,” you realise how much more there is to know. But, it takes a certain level of intelligence before you realise that there is so much more to know that you couldn’t possibly be arrogant enough to be able to say that “There is this diet that’s going to work for you,” or, “This is your strategy,” it’s like, “This is where we will start…
Matt: …and, this is where we’ll go when that changes, but we don’t know where we’ll go until we start.” What do you say? Lead a horse to water…
Jeff: Lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink?
Matt: No, that other stupid one that you say, Flogging a dead horse. No, no you can’t move a dead horse.
Matt: What’s your stupid saying about that horse?
Jeff: You’re telling the story.
Matt: It’s easier to turn a moving horse?
Jeff: Yes, it is.
Matt: Yes, that’s your saying. That’s your saying.
Jeff: It is.
Matt: Don’t pretend it’s not your saying, you look at me as if you’ve never heard that saying. You say it every day.
Jeff: But, the thing is, you have to start somewhere.
Matt: Is that the same?
Jeff: It’s easy to turn a moving horse.
Matt: Yeah, thank you.
Jeff: It is.
Matt: Gees, that was hard. It’s easier to get blood out of a stone than get your bloody sayings out of you when we don’t want them.
Jeff: Bizarre. I think there’s a few drinks owed there. The interesting thing, Matt, is that there have to be some assumptions made at some point, and I don’t want people listening to this who aren’t with a trainer or who aren’t considered to be prepping for a competition or that, to get discouraged by hearing this. In the first place, how do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time. Man, we should just call this the Sayings Podcast or something.
Matt: Yeah, Bizarre.
Jeff: Bizarre. You’ve got to start somewhere. What Mick is, he’s become intuitive, and the more that you do this and the more that you’re aware of it the more you can actually make changes. It’s funny, I play a lot of poker, do exactly the same thing. I’ve done a lot of study, I understand a lot of the rules but then I almost forget them and play based on intuition and I actually play a lot better, it’s the same thing. You take the information that you’ve got and then you adjust it. People like Mick who have been around a lot of people it’s easy for them to be able to naturally and instinctively make adjustments and changes.
As you do this and incorporate this into your lifestyle you’ll know, “Oh you know what? I should definitely avoid bread,” and that could be because you’re intolerant to it, or it gives you an upset. So, with all of this there’s the base information but then you’ve got to apply it, as you’ve said before, Matt, “You’re an individual, you’ve got to make adjustments to suit yourself.”
Jeff: So, we’ve covered off on a lot of the Macros, we’ve covered off on water, which I think is very important. Matt, let’s talk about some of the other things, like Caffeine. I know there’s a host of research on the benefits of Caffeine and the Metabolic Rate, and spices, things like chilly, and then we’ll get into some specific supplements in a bit.
Matt: Yeah, let’s do it.
Jeff: So, Caffeine, Matt, what’s the benefits there? And, we can receive Caffeine from multiple forms, we’ve got straight Caffeine, we’ve got Yerba Mate, we’ve got Guarana.
Jeff: So, there’s a few different ones that we can use. But, a black cup of coffee, Matt?
Matt: What Caffeine does on a cellular level for fat burning—it’s referred to as a Phosphodiesterase inhibitor, it prevents this enzyme from breaking down a compound in our cells called Cyclic AMP, and Cyclic AMP drives a process known as Lipolysis, which is breaking up the stored fat to release it into the bloodstream so you’re capable of burning it. So, Caffeine has a big effect on increasing Cyclic AMP, you look at it as an on switch, whatever cell Cyclic AMP is it makes it run faster.
Matt: So, Caffeine preserves that. Things like Forskolin Eta Coleus and a lot of other stimulant herbs, or anything that—you know when they talk about Catecholamines?
Matt: Catecholamines are things like Adrenaline, or for our American listeners, Epinephrine. So, we’ve got Adrenaline, Noradrenalilne or Epinephrine, Norepinephrine, they’re our main Catecholamines that will trigger our body into a fast Metabolic Rate, like we do when we’re under stress or when we’re on the go, or exercising, they will increase Cyclic AMP, Caffeine preserves it. So, when you look at Caffeine it does both, it releases the Adrenaline compounds and it preserves the induction chemical that stimulates fat burning. So, it’s pretty cool.
It also has an effect for breaking down fatty foods if you have Caffeine about an hour or so after a meal, like Caffeine as you see with traditional medicine. This is what I love about traditional food culture, this is why I got to be 140 kilos because of my in-depth research in traditional food cultures.
Jeff: Is that what you call it?
Matt: Yeah, yeah. And, preparation for a before photo.
Matt: So, basically, you’ll see a lot of cultures they’ll have the meal and then they’ll relax and they’ll have their rest time and come back and do the deserts and have a coffee, they’ll often have a cup of coffee with that fatty component of the meal where Caffeine helps bile flow, and the bile flow helps to break down fatty foods.
Jeff: What about using Caffeine before a meal then? I mean it’s warm and it’s hot, and then if you have it straight it’s bitter.
Matt: The problem is, the stimulant effect of it activates the Sympathetic Nervous System which constricts the blood flow to your stomach and that makes it harder to create acid and enzymes even though it’s bitter and hot, it shuts down the blood flow to the stomach to send the blood to the muscles and the brain because of that stimulant effect from the Caffeine.
Jeff: So, stick with the Miso?
Matt: This is also the negative aspect of Caffeine in regards to Cortisol. So, the Cortisol production from the activation of the Stress Nervous System where Cortisol will actually have an effect preserving a certain amount of fat around internal organs and encouraging the body to be Catabolic. So, that’s the problem with Caffeine, is that it has that Cortisol effect.
That’s what I was talking about before, with that study between the Calorie restriction verse the Gastric Bypass. The people with the Gastric Bypass lost more weight because they didn’t have the Cortisol because they weren’t as stressed as the people that were just hungry.
Jeff: So, in terms then of using Caffeine for a net fat loss, Matt, yes or no?
Matt: Low doses, yes.
Matt: So, the key is to do small amounts so it has the Phosphodiesterase inhibition without a big enough effect to have a significant large effect on your HPA Axis with subsequent Cortisol release.
Jeff: And, I guess everyone’s going to be different?
Jeff: But, if we could use an average, what would you say in terms of milligrams of Caffeine?
Matt: Yeah, so basically a typical cup of coffee I think is 75mg worth of Caffeine per shot of Espresso. So, basically around about half of that, or that much.
Matt: And, three or four times a day is actually better than having one big dose once a day.
Jeff: Everyone’s running to their pre workout as we speak and probably finding somewhere between 150 to 300mgs of Caffeine.
Matt: Well, this is the tricky thing. So, now what’s happening, I think the regulations is over 200mgs of Caffeine means it’s no longer a sports supplement it’s now a Caffeinated beverage. And, the Caffeinated beverage category…
Jeff: Less regulated?
Matt: …is less regulated because people like TGA have to take Red Bull to pull it, not ATP.
Matt: So, you know what I mean.
Jeff: I do.
Matt: And, this is what’s annoying too, a lot of pre workouts typically wouldn’t have had Caffeine added to it and are now getting it added to it because it puts it into a different regulatory category, and it means they can get away with other things they wouldn’t normally get away with, like therapeutic levels of Taurine.
Matt: Which will stop the palpitations from the Caffeine…
Jeff: Heart palpitations, yeah.
Matt: …but, it would be very handy for us to be able to put in the sports supplements to stop cramping and that sort of stuff. But, anyhow I’ve got distracted. So, Caffeine’s cool like that, but I prefer the natural forms, you know, that you find in the Green Teas, the Yerba Mates, like actual coffee, and that sort of stuff, because they’ve got other cofactors that are found in those plants that regulate the way that Caffeine can work in the body.
For example: Green Tea, you would have noticed you can get a similar amount of Caffeine out of a cup of Green Tea as you can out of a cup of Coffee, but you feel the Caffeine in the coffee, don’t you?
Matt: You don’t necessarily feel the Caffeine in the Green Tea?
Matt: The antioxidant compounds in the Green Tea can actually down regulate the Adrenaline receptors in the brain. So, you get the Phosphodiesterase effects without the stimulant effects.
Matt: So, if you want stimulant effects it’s not so flash, but it still allows you to have the same fat burning effects from Green Tea as you would from Coffee.
Jeff: That’s cool.
Matt: But, all the new studies on Green Tea around exercise show nothing.
Matt: So, it doesn’t do much.
Jeff: So, it’s not that beneficial. And, too much of it can lead to Goiter and things like that, can’t it, Matt?
Matt: Yeah, so we don’t use it, we don’t bother putting it in our products for that reason.
Jeff: Alright. Spices, Matt. Chilly, particularly. I mean you have a hot chilly or a Vindaloo curry or something like that you’ll be sweating like an absolute pig. What’s going on?
Matt: Yeah, a hot English Wasabi punch in the face.
Jeff: Oh hot.
Matt: Yeah, it hits you right in the face.
Jeff: I love Wasabi.
Jeff: And, obviously hot English Mustard as well, too.
Matt: Yeah, we just sit there and when one of us starts slapping ourselves in the face you know you’ve just mixed up your sweet potato with your hot English Mustard.
Jeff: It has that burning that goes up through—but anyway, it definitely makes you sweat. So, what’s going on with those sorts of things?
Matt: Postprandial Thermogenesis is a real thing, which is the generation of heat after the meal with spices, and people that do that have a faster Metabolic Rate.
Matt: They actually burn more Calories.
Jeff: So, what sort of things should you add to your food?
Matt: Chilly, but the whole chilly family, so throwing in the extra capsicums and that sort of stuff. Any of the pepper family there, black pepper and that sort of stuff included.
Jeff: So, what else have we got? We’ve got chilly, you’ve got jalapenos…
Matt: Yeah, yeah, and ginger, wasabi, horseradish…
Jeff: I love wasabi. I love horseradish as well too.
Matt: Yeah, all of those of things; very, very powerful.
Jeff: In fact, when I was dieting and Chris had given me a diet to lose weight which went really, really well. I was using quite a lot of horseradish on the top of my steak just to give it some flavour. The impact from carbohydrates in things like that were virtually negligible, I think.
Matt: Well, we add capsicum extract in our T432 originally, but it was supposed to have a coating on the extract to protect the stomach, and the trial batches did but it just didn’t work in the long run, so we eventually took it out because it was just causing indigestion in people because it wasn’t protecting their oesophagus properly. We even tried coating it and everything. So, those things, add them in with your food if you can handle it because there’s people out there that just seriously can’t. So, when you’re trying to make a supplement for everyone we had to take out some of those spices because some people were super sensitive to it; other people don’t even feel it.
Jeff: I can almost, and I’m not sure, again I’m not a Prep coach and I don’t remember all these things, but I’m positive that I heard that some people were avoiding capsicum, Matt, because of, I think, it’s sugar or it’s carbohydrate content.
Matt: Oh yeah, quite possibly.
Jeff: But, the benefits—and again, the benefits of the capsicum as far as the Metabolic rate is probably worth the Calorie impact that you get from the amount of time.
Matt: You just calculate for the Calories.
Jeff: Yeah. Yeah.
Matt: So you just…
Jeff: If it fits your Macros.
Matt: Do your maths.
Jeff: Yeah. But, that’s right though.
Matt: Do your maths, it’s easy, and then assume it’s going to be 60% accurate.
Jeff: Yeah. Alright, what about Du-zhong, Matt?
Matt: Du-zhong’s my favourite.
Jeff: So, let’s talk about herbs now, and these are some of the really powerful compounds.
Matt: Well, there are so many herbs we can talk about for stimulating Metabolism.
Jeff: What are some of them?
Matt: Some of the most powerful ones and the best studied one, Coleus is probably one of the best, Coleus Forskohlii because it contains a compound in it, which is a compound that’s used—when you do a PubMed search or something for Forskolin most of the actual studies that revolve around Cyclic AMP and cells, they actually use this herb as a pharmaceutical compound to force these cells to change in a particular way.
Jeff: Yeah, it’s pretty cool.
Matt: It’s almost like the gold standard for–if I want to increase Cyclic AMP I use Forskolin, and then if I want to see if something stops it I use Forskolin as a control. It’s very, very well studied and it’s a herb that they can’t take off us and it’s wonderful. So, Cyclic AMP is a driving factor for fat loss and stimulates digestion, energy levels, all these sort of things. And, Coleus Forskohlii directly stimulates Cyclic AMP production, and it does it instantly, directly. So, through Coleus you can stimulate your Basal Metabolic Rate in every cell of your body. And, you can even increase the Metabolic Rate in your Thyroid cells which will release more Thyroid hormones and will make your Metabolic Rate faster all over your whole body. You can use Coleus to stimulate Metabolic Rate in the cells of your digestion to improve digestion, bowel function, it’s an on switch man, it’s amazingly powerful.
Jeff: When I first heard of Coleus Forskohlii it was likened by the person who was telling me about, and I went and researched it, to Ephedrine, having a similar effect or better effect at burning fat that Ephedrine.
Matt: Yeah, well Ephedrine works by stimulating the receptors to ask it to make Cyclic AMP, this thing just goes straight in and stimulates Cyclic AMP production. The challenge with these things is, when you use it in the body it’s just like whatever cell it hits first it makes Cyclic AMP. So, when you take it orally there’s a certain does you can tolerate before you get enough Cyclic AMP in your gut that you’re going to give yourself the green apple splatters and just evacuate. That’s why we add Coleus into our transdermal fat burner, so that way we can get a double dose. Get as much as we possibly can out of the stomach without giving you the squirts, and then get the rest coming from the skin and try to target everything.
Jeff: Seriously though, every time we use the SUBCUT and rub it on my stomach before I go for a walk, within 10 minutes I have to go to the toilet, every single time, and then other people have been sending through the same thing. So, it’s Cyclic-ating things…
Matt: Yeah, well that’s Cyclic AMPs. And, it goes to show how far reaching the ingredients from something you rub on your stomach can actually get to the mucosa of your gut. And, remember those early studies we did on the SUBCUT with the women and they all came back with libido, saying their libido was through the roof. So, if you’re rubbing it in around your ovaries and that, especially you Jeff, if I was watching you right now rubbing that into your ovaries I reckon my libido would go through the roof.
Jeff: Matt, I’ve got some…
Matt: That was a lie. Wait till I edit that out.
Jeff: Anything I do makes his libido goes through the roof. But, what’s interesting, Matt, is that I think scientifically there is a difference between men and women.
Matt: I’m rubbing my ovaries right now.
Jeff: I think I can prove it.
Matt: What did you say, there’s a difference between men and women?
Jeff: I’ll put up some pictures and I’ll show you.
Matt: Yeah. No worries, yeah I’ll bet. Because, I’m rubbing my ovaries on the outside.
Jeff: Oh! The interesting thing for—let’s get back on track then, for Du-zhong then. Tell us about Du-zhong. Okay, you gave us one, but do you want to get onto Du-zhong or is there a couple of others you want to mention before we do that?
Matt: Okay, let me quickly list off my favourite ones because Du-zhong is probably my favouritist of the favourites. But, we’ve got Coleus, you’ve got things like Yerba Mate, that’ll do.
Jeff: Oh, you’re keeping some up your sleeve, Matt.
Matt: Oh man, I’ve got so much really awesome stuff. We’re working on a pre workout fat burner now and I am just –I just need to hide until it’s made because I’m just dying to tell everyone about it and I can’t, but man it’s cool.
So anyway, let’s just talk about Du-zhong for a bit, Du-zhong Eucommia, not Uricoma, it’s Eucommia ulmoidies Oliver, or some shit like that.
Matt: Du-zhong is the Chinese way they talk about it. In traditional Chinese medicine it’s very popular as a Yang tonic, it’s a very Yang herb. So, you know how they talk about Yin and Yang?
Matt: Well, the Yang is hot, it’s dry, it’s firey, Yang gives you your motivation, your drive, your energy levels. When you’re extra Yang you’re hotter, it dispels fluid, it dispels grease, and that sort of stuff. So, in Chinese medicine a lot of the stuff that you’d look for to stimulate your Metabolic Rate are the things we refer to as a Yang tonic.
Du-zhong is like one of the ultimate Yang tonics and the most Yang thing you can get. But, it’s very, very powerful at stimulating your Metabolic Rate in every cell of your body. So, Du-zhong’s got the ability to increase the amount of energy consumed by your organs, increase the amount of energy consumed by your muscles, and it consumes that energy and yields results, meaning that it’s increasing your energy expenditure but you’re getting more energy, you’re getting more vitality, you’re getting more strength and you’re getting more power because it’s increasing the amount of energy utilised and giving that directly as energy back to you. So, it’s transferring stored energy from food and Calories into actual movement energy within your body. It’s very powerful for that.
The other cool thing about it through that same process, is if you have a Calorie surplus and you’re on Du-zhong it actually inhibits the generation of new fat cells, so it stops your body from storing. You know how they talk about Garcinia saying if you do everything wrong you’ll get less fat with Garcinia?
Jeff: Yeah, yeah.
Matt: By, basically, stopping the conversion of sugar through to stored fats.
Jeff: Instead of putting on five kilos of fat you get three.
Matt: This thing, basically, tells your body, “Don’t make any new fat cells, if you’ve got extra Calories then you burn them.”
Matt: So, that way you can actually keep your Calories good, you’re not storing the excess, you’re actually utilising that excess as energy and it makes your cells run faster in the process.
Jeff: Yeah, right.
Matt: The other thing too, when I talked about the hierarchy and priorities, so we’re talking about Basal Metabolic Rate, we’re talking about Calories in, Calories out, and doing our best to regulate that, but your body’s priorities—so if you’ve got inflammation, if you’ve immune activity, if you’ve got toxic exposure your body might change its priorities from building muscle and burning fat to short term survival, which is, “Forget about building muscle and we’ll preserve fat in case of injury.” So, if you’re inflamed, if you’re toxic and you’ve got weird immune stuff happening, even in a Calorie deficit you’re more likely to preserve fat. Du-zhong stops that from happening.
Du-zhong is a very powerful anti-inflammatory, and it’s very powerful at controlling the chemicals that are released from fat cells. So, you know how fat makes fat?
Matt: So, fat releases Estrogen, it releases inflammation, it releases all of these chemicals called Adipokines, which are chemicals out of Adipocytes, and Du-zhong blocks all them. So, it takes the inflammation out of fat, so when you start Du-zhong your cellulite stops getting lumpy and bumpy really quickly. You know, you stop getting bloating, you stop getting fluid retention, it takes away the thickness and the fullness in the love handles and all that sort of stuff. But, it’s very, very powerful at getting away injuries, balancing out the Immune System and everything.
The other thing it does, interestingly, is it drives fat burning similar to Caffeine, in the sense that it will increase Cyclic AMP, it will increase the amount of –you know how I was talking about those Catecholamines, the way they work is they activate—they’re part of the Sympathetic Nervous System. And, the Sympathetic Nervous System is what will tell the fat cells to burn. Okay? And so, Du-zhong is really cool because it doesn’t have this effect of driving the Adrenals and it does it like Caffeine does, but it can actually activate the same receptors as Adrenaline without having to exhaust the Adrenals.
So, what that basically means, you put in Du-zhong, it’s actually giving you all this alert energy, it’s giving you energetic arousal like you’re on a stimulant, but it’s actually doing it by forcing Calories in to be burnt and increasing your Basal Metabolic Rate. And, that way, it also controls the priorities, so in a Calorie deficit you’re not actually preserving fat and burning muscle, and in a state of inflammation and in a state of toxic exposure and stress, you’re also burning fat and not preserving fat like you normally would.
So, that’s why that herb is so damn powerful, it boosts Metabolic Rate, it prevents muscle loss, it prevents protein breakdown. It also suppresses the appetite because it keeps you running in the Sympathetic Nervous System with heaps of energy.
Jeff: Yeah, right.
Matt: So, you’ve got an empty stomach and a flat stomach and you’re not hungry as opposed to having a full bloated stomach and not being hungry. So, it’s a better type of appetite suppressant because—it’s not so much an appetite suppressant as a satiety mechanism, it’s a satiety controller because you’ve got ample Calories, you’ve got ample energetic arousal, you’re not getting this increased blood flow to the stomach saying, “Feed me now.”
Jeff: Yeah, right.
Matt: So, you’re going to just burn.
Jeff: Well, when I was talking to Simon he said that was one of the things he stayed on pretty consistently the whole way through.
Matt: The T432?
Jeff: Yeah. Which contains the Du-zhong.
Matt: Yeah, yeah.
Jeff: And, it’s funny, Matt, as I said, this is a great tool for your high end athletes or for your people who are just looking to shed five or 10 kilos.
Matt: Oh, absolutely. And, the thing is too, we talked about all these Basal Metabolic Rates and everything, but if there was one driving factor in regards to organs and hormones in your body to control Metabolic rate we’d have to say the number one most important priority would be Thyroid Hormone.
If your Thyroid Hormones are not there then it doesn’t matter about anything else, your Basal Metabolic Rate is not going to be optimal. So, the way to manipulate your Basal Metabolic Rate, if you were to pick one target I’d target the Thyroid.
Jeff: And, Matt, how do you measure that again? I remember a while ago we gave out some cheat sheets for people…
Matt: Yeah, you do. Go to the doctor, ask for a complete Thyroid Hormone profile, but the difference is, you’ll have to volunteer to pay for it. So, basically, in Australia we’re talking about, I don’t know in other countries, but in Australia they’ll measure TSH and that’s your brain telling your Thyroid how fast it wants it go, and they’ll measure that first bite and offer nothing else. And, they’ll wait for that to go bad before they do any further testing, and if that test comes in fine they say, “Oh you’re fine, your brain’s not even telling your Thyroid to go fast or slow, so, obviously, your Thyroid’s fine.” So, they don’t take into consideration all the other possible scenarios that could be contributing to you being fat because your Thyroid is slow.
So, to do a complete Thyroid Hormone profile, TSH definitely measure, T4, and we talk about free T4 and free T3. Also get them to measure Reverse T3, so very important to measure Reverse T3 because it can tell us if your Thyroid Hormones are going down the wrong pathway that makes you fat as opposed to the good pathway that makes your Metabolic Rate go awesome.
Jeff: The easiest way I’ve explained it, is that the Reverse T3—so T4 converts down to T3 and T3 should convert down to T2, which is like putting the foot on the accelerator. If it goes down to Reverse T3 it’s like taking your foot off the accelerator and putting it on the brake.
Matt: Yeah, that’s in man, that’s much easier than mine.
Jeff: It’s funny because people were saying, “Reverse T3, T3, T4, T2, what does it all mean?” T2 is just full flat out fast.
Matt: And if you don’t know what your Reverse T3 levels are, you don’t know if you’re driving around with the handbrake on. That’s the big point, because people say, “I want to drive my Thyroid to go faster, I’ll even take T3 medications,” and all that sort of stuff. But, if you’ve got a Reverse T3 there it’s going to determine how fast you’re going to be going, and if you’re not measuring it you have no idea. And, you know what it’s like, you can be driving around with the handbrake on, you take your handbrake off and everything goes easy. I think I broke my handbrake from driving around with it on.
Jeff: Don’t. So, Du-zhong is absolutely critical, Matt, as far as a herb or a supplement that you can take once everything else is getting in order. It could even be a product that you could take while you’re getting everything else in order with your diet.
Matt: Oh yeah, because it’s very clever because what it does it works on the hierarchy and changes your body’s priorities, right from the top.
Jeff: Do you want to talk about Campheral?
Matt: Well, Campheral’s in Du-zhong. Campheral Nurengen a very important in compounds. They’re found in a lot of citrus rinds and all that sort of stuff, they’re also found in the leaves of the Eucommia plant. But, Campheral is a very important tool being able to convert T3 through to T2, and that happens in the Mitochondria and that is the most potent fat burning of the whole Thyroid Hormone cascade, a very powerful inducer of Thermogenesis. Which, is why when most people use T432 Plus they notice that the sweating is one of the first things that happens. Basal Metabolic Rate is up, and when your Basal Metabolic Rate’s up your Basal Body Temperature is up. When your Basal Body Temperature is up you feel hot and you sweat more, and you’ll find even after taking T432, initially, with that meal you’ll get a lot more Postprandial Thermogenesis because the T2 is very fast acting.
Jeff: Post what?
Matt: Sorry, after a meal, Thermogenesis after eating; Postprandial Thermogenesis.
Jeff: Prandial, okay.
Matt: You know when you have a big protein meal you’ll sweat up, or a spicy meal, that’s what we were talking about before.
Jeff: Yeah, yeah, brilliant. Matt, is there anything else that you want to cover off in terms of any herbs? Or, are you happy to leave it there for the day?
Matt: I’m happy to leave it there for today because I’ve got some really exciting stuff that I want them to come back and listen to, when I’m allowed to talk about it properly.
Jeff: Mm. Well it’s interesting, we’re talking with some really influential people about trialing the products. Chris has already been trialing it for us, he’s been doing extremely well.
Matt: Oh yeah, it’s great.
Jeff: Don’t ask him any questions about it, though, he won’t tell you.
Matt: He better not bloody tell you. Don’t ask him just in case he does.
Jeff: Matt, we’ve got some FAQs to get into.
Matt: Oh good, let’s do that.
Jeff: Okay. So, first one. Straight into it.
Ashley says, “Hi guys, love your podcast, best thing to listen to at work. I’ve got a Q&A for the boys.
I’ve recently been listening to the podcast on Gut Health, which was awesome, so much info on it. I think I’ll have to listen to it another 10 times to get everything out of it. They were talking about bloating and whatnot after eating. I’ve recently just finished my first comp three weeks ago and lately I seem to bloat after eating, most of the time I end up with gas and will still be hungry after. Do, they have any suggestions on what to help with this. Also, would these symptoms be caused by the overuse of artificial sweeteners?
Matt: Alright Ash. Did she say digestion after meals?
Matt: Yeah. So, typically, this is the way to work it out, and with your stomach if you are bloating and you feel fullness within an hour, so if it’s pretty much immediate, the food hits there and immediately you feel full then it’s an indication of low stomach acid.
Matt: The way to fix that is with Hydrochloric Acid capsules, or a herb called [1:22:25] or hot water with something acidic and bitter, like Apple Cider Vinegar in some water or lemon water, that sort of stuff, that will increase the stomach—and, do that before the meal. Let the stomach know food’s coming, get it to prep and prepare. The other thing is with your stomach, make sure you’re not eating on the run; if you’re eating on the run and you’re busy and you throw food down it will just sit there because your stomach’s not ready.
Jeff: Oh, this is a big one, yeah.
Matt: So, if you get bloating and it’s immediate and definitely within the first hour then fair chance it’s stomach. If the bloating and distention occurs from just outside of that one hour, maybe one or two hours after the meal, then you’re probably looking at the duodenum and the small intestine. So, as the food’s come out of the stomach the pancreas and the gall bladder then has to secrete its enzymes, so if the Gall Bladder’s a problem when you have a fatty meal then you’re going to get sick about an hour after the meal, and then it’s your Gall Bladder.
If there was no fat in the meal and you get the fullness and the bloating and a lot of gas it’s a fair chance it’s Pancreas. Then, in that case you supplement with Pancreatic Enzymes with the meal, so as the food’s going down it’s got Pancreatic Enzymes with it. Typically, Pancreatic Enzyme supplements are just Pancreas, like a pig’s Pancreas in a capsule or something.
Matt: Yeah, Pancreatin. But, otherwise you can get a combination of Protease, Lipase, Amylase.
Jeff: Like bronlon and that sort of stuff?
Matt: Yeah, you throw all that sort of stuff in. So, basically, they’re the sort of things you’d find in a Pancreatic Digestive Enzyme; you can take them both. What I mean by that is Stomach Acid and Pancreatic Enzymes and throw them down at the same time, they’ll still work.
Matt: If your bloating is just generalised, indiscriminate all the time and usually is associated with gas then you’re looking at large intestine, and you’re looking at the large intestine and it’s Probiotics; there’s the wrong type of bugs fermenting whatever’s in there. Also, be aware that if it is large intestine you’ve probably got one, or both, of the stomach and small intestine issues we’ve already discussed because that’s the only reason why you’d have undigested food in the large intestine feeding bacteria and fermenting it.
So, hopefully that helps.
Jeff: So, would you recommend that if it is that problem then maybe throwing down some Black Cohosh or anything like that?
Jeff: Like, the…
Matt: Black Walnut Hulls or something?
Matt: Oh, you can if you want. The thing is, if you’ve got an overgrowth of organisms in the gut it’s hard to tell if Probiotics will work or if you need to do a…
Jeff: Weed, seed and clean?
Matt: Yeah, whether you need to clean the bugs our first. So, I usually throw Probiotics down, and if it’s going to work it will work within a couple of days. If it hasn’t, and you might be getting worse before you get better because you’re displacing the bad bugs, stop the Probiotics, go in with some Antimicrobial like Chinese Wormwood, Garlics and that sort of stuff, kill off the bad bugs, and then go in with the Probiotics.
Jeff: And, would that clear out any parasites as well too, Matt, if that happened to be a problem?
Matt: No, parasites take ages.
Matt: So, you either hit it with your bomb from the chemist, or you use some natural thing over a month.
Jeff: And, we did talk about that, so that might help.
Matt: Yeah, in the Gut one.
Jeff: Yeah. Alright. What else was there in that? There was one other thing. Oh, artificial sweeteners, Matt?
Matt: Yes and no, probably not.
Jeff: It probably wouldn’t be helping but it probably wouldn’t be the cause.
Matt: It depends which it is. Okay? So, there’s some of those sugar alcohol sort of things, they can ferment a bit, like the other artificial sweeteners how you get weird multulose and that stuff, weird sugar compounds that have been manipulated so they don’t be absorbed?
Jeff: Like those lollies?
Matt: They ferment. Yeah, usually you can tell because they have a warning that if you eat more than one of these they’re going to go straight through you.
Jeff: And, definitely avoid any of those ones there. You know, those sugar free lollies that you can get?
Matt: Yeah, yeah.
Jeff: If you’ve got a bad gut…
Matt: Oh, instant farting. I can’t believe it gets there so quick.
Jeff: That sugar free chocolate and all that. Actually, just avoid that like the plague.
Jeff: Until you get right, and then, again, in moderation if you want to.
Matt: Yeah, yeah, that’s right.
Jeff: Alright. This one is from Amanda. Amanda hug and kiss.
Matt: Oh, again.
Jeff: “Hi guys, I listen to your podcast, and in the Andropause one you had a final FAQ about the pill Yasmin and its effect on the body. I recently switched to this pill, four months ago, as during my last Comp prep I was on Estella and had spotting mid cycle. The doctor suggested I change my pill, and now four months out of Comp I can’t seem to lose my arm fat fluid. My coach measures me weekly and my calliper test is increasing every week but my weight is dropping. He said he’s stumped because it doesn’t feel like fat to the touch. My coach has suggested that I use Antihistamines over four days before my next pinch test to see if my body is having a bad reaction to something that makes me retain fat on my arms.
Could this be the pill that’s having this effect or just bad rebound from no carbs and eating carbs again? If I were to change back to my old pill Estelle do you think this would help with the ugly retention? Or, do all pills have this hormonal effect?
I’m on the pill for contraceptive reasons but my arms are really getting me down. My nutrition is on point and we’ve tried a 40/40/20 but just changed it to a 40 protein 20 carb 40 fats.
Please help, Amanda.”
Matt: Alright. It’s a tricky one because, again, everyone responds differently to medication. Usually, though, if you’re finding an isolated area that’s just being stubborn and not responding like that, you know, when other areas are responding to Calorie changes, you are looking at some sort of a hormonal handbrake holding it on. What can often happen too is, the way these pills work, that is consistent across them, or that they have in common, is that it makes this weird type of Estrogen that does hold a lot of fat and fluid in those particular areas. The difference between this pill and the last pill might be the level of hormones, but they’re still going to be making that same dodgy stuff.
So, with those ALPHA VENUS products and everything that we make, they switch that dodgy Estrogen, that holds the fat and fluid, over to a weaker anti-Estrogen that actually has the opposite effect, it actually helps the body to strip fat and fluid out of those areas. But, I’d still wrap it up just in case if you’re using it for contraception. Just be careful, no one knows how much influence your Comp prep alone, you know, changes in diet and exercise, will have on your contraceptive pill, because that can stop it from working.
So, just be aware that Comp prep, diet and exercise can stop the pill from working, so double check the contraception and definitely, if you’re going to add ALPHA VENUS as well, because it’s going to have another effect on the hormones.
Jeff: A hormonal effect, yeah.
Matt: Yeah. An interesting thing too, is an indication of the mid-cycle bleeding with Estelle is an indication that you may have lower levels of Progesterone. So, also look for a herb called Vitex, and Vitex at about 1gm per day will actually increase your protein and that will offset some of the Estrogen excess.
In my clinic it’s hard to try work out sometimes if someone’s got too much Estrogen and not enough Progesterone. But, when someone comes in and presents with excessive Estrogen symptoms and a bit of spotting mid-cycle they may have normal Estrogen but low Progesterone.
Matt: And, ratios of hormones mean more than the amounts. So, sometimes upping Progesterone can actually have significant changes onto your Hormonal Profile and change your body shape much faster than just doing a campaign to offset the Estrogen. Because, if we change the ratios you get quick changes.
Jeff: The interesting thing is, I think prophylactics could definitely be the go. See, with my wife Toni, she suffered from the Factor V Leiden which was the blood clotting. She couldn’t take the pill because she was at risk of actually developing blood clots and killing her. Definitely, as you’re changing your dieting, if you’re taking the pill, this is a big one. As Matt said, you could actually reduce the effectiveness of the pill anyway, so it might be an idea to use the rubbers. The other thing is, ALPAH VENUS will be changing very soon to contain the Vitex in it, however, I think Matt wants you to get on that immediately. So, if you can go and get it, 1gm a day, that would be a good place to start.
Matt: Yeah. So, it’s Vitex Agnus-Castus, also known as Chaste Berry or Chaste Tree. But, if you use 1000mg per day.
Jeff: Yeah, and just take that first thing in the morning?
Matt: Yeah, that’s good. It’s an easier way of doing it.
Jeff: And, if you’re not using the ALPHA VENUS maybe use the ALPAH VENUS as well?
Matt: Yeah, of course. If you’re not using ALPHA VENUS you’re insane.
Jeff: Yeah, but again, just be aware, as Matt said, that could have an impact on the effects of the pill for contraceptive purposes.
Matt: Yeah, yeah.
Jeff: Aright. Thanks Amanda.
This one is from Lauren:
“I picked up CORT RX and VENUS a few days ago, and looking forward to start seeing some results. Although, I’ve found I’ve become really tired and lethargic with the CORT RX to the point where I have to lie down after each dose until it wears off a bit. I’m taking Melatonin at night as well until my next batch of Tryptophan arrives; Melatonin gets me to sleep but doesn’t keep me there like Tryptophan does. I’ve heard this happened to someone on a podcast and was recommended to take four at night. This sounds like it may be more suited to me. Should I just play around with the dosage until I find something that works?
I also find that fat burners and pre workouts have become less effective. I tend to be pretty sensitive to anything that’s sedative, and with my job and the long 12 hour shifts, I worry that the only thing getting me through the shifts is the Cortisol, and I have to remain alert and on the ball at times. I work in live television.
Also, is it safe to continue taking DIM or is there no point when taking the VENUS? I am also curious to know what are the benefits of taking CORT RX pre workout like the bottle recommends. I’m reluctant to try this given my tiredness.”
Matt: Yeah. So, if you are really close to Adrenal Exhaustion and your body is running on nervous energy and just pumping out enough Cortisol to keep you going, the CORT RX will lower that Cortisol and it will make you sleepy.
Jeff: There you go.
Matt: So, that’s in a small percentage of people, they’re borderline Adrenal Exhaustion where their Cortisol is just—they’ve just got enough stress stimulants, triggers in their body to keep their Cortisol high to keep them awake, and then when you put in the CORT RX it slows them down. Because, basically, at some stage your body is going say, “If you don’t stop I’m going to stop you.”
Jeff: Enough’s enough. Yeah, exactly.
Matt: So, basically, as soon as your Cortisol drops slightly your body’s going to say, “No, we’re going to stop. You need to stop.” So, the better way to do it, for you, would be to do the CORT RX at night, but if you’re finding you’re sensitive to it like that, and you are using Melatonin, what I would probably do is instead of doing the four at night I’d just take two of the CORT RX at the same time as you have your Melatonin, and it will force you into a really nice deep sleep. First thing in the morning you’re going to have ample Cortisol to get you up and going because you’ve had that sparing effect throughout the evening.
The fact that you’re waking up throughout the evening and you’re getting poor sleep maintenance—so, you can get to sleep because you’re tired enough, you get to sleep, but you’ve got very poor sleep maintenance. Which means, over a 24-hour period your Adrenal Gland it’s never up enough to get you going but it’s never down enough for you to recover. So, you get that annoying trickle. You get a little trickle of Cortisol all day and all night, so there’s no difference between day and night for you in regards to changing body composition, resetting, rebooting.
So, in your case, your body is obviously going to go, go, go anyway. So, it’s more effective than our ability to switch you off and get you to reset and give your Adrenal Gland a chance to reload because as soon as you wake up it’s going to be going. So, you’re better off to do two CORT RX at night with the Melatonin, and you should have a really nice deep sleep. It would be really interesting to see if you need the Tryptophan if you do the CORT RX at night; a fair chance you won’t. Because, normally, Tryptophan is the precursor to Serotonin. Serotonin gets you to sleep. Melatonin is supposed to keep you asleep. So, the fact that you’re finding Tryptophan is keeping you asleep means that your body’s not going into that deep proper sleep, you just need constant trickles of Serotonin to keep you sleepy enough to be sleepy. You know what I mean?
Matt: Yeah, without actually going into a deep refreshing, regenerating sleep.
Jeff: So, with Lauren obviously working 12 hour shifts in live television, which I would imagine would also be a stressful event, as well, obviously the Adrenals are just getting an absolute shellacking.
Matt: I do one hour shift on a podcast with you once a week; stressful.
Jeff: That’s enough. Also, you mentioned about turning Lauren off, and actually you turn quite a few females off, so I don’t think you’ll have a problem with that Matt.
Matt: That’s good. And, the other one is, regarding the DIM: there is the compounds from DIM within the VENUS so you don’t really need it.
Jeff: Okay, so DIM’s pointless. And, then pre workout, Matt, using the CORT RX, what’s the deal with that? How does that work?
Matt: Well, what that’s used for is when people are loading up on stimulants. So, the majority of the people out there are taking stimulants that drive their Cortisol to go high. I’ve got a feeling, in this situation the exercise itself will get Cortisol to normal, so I wouldn’t bother doing the CORT RX pre workout, I’d just use CORT RX before sleep, in this case. You’ll get a nice deep sleep and you’re going to wake up and have energy all day.
Jeff: Okay great. Alright, thanks Lauren. Okay, I hope that helps.
This one is from Tamika: “Hi, I’m a 27-year-old female who has battled with weight my entire life. I lost 23 kilos at 15 years old. I was born with thick thighs. What would you recommend to shift stubborn fat that’s on my hips, my thighs and my lower abdomen? I also have cellulite on my thighs with a few prominent pockets on my upper thighs. I’ve tried lots of diets and exercises but nothing seems to shift in this region.
I appreciate your help, thanks Tamika.”
Jeff: It’s pretty broad, Matt, but what can you do to help Tamika?
Matt: What you do in this situation is you go straight in with a specific program targeting Estrogen and switching the strong active Estrogens that hold the extra fat and fluid and swell up the cells they call the cellulite, switch that around to a weaker Estrogen and see how many things disappear. Because, usually what happens is the fat that’s been made on those thighs can be the source of Estrogen that’s keeping the body out of whack as well.
So, basically, it’s very important to specifically target that, pick one target and do it effectively, and if that’s the body shape that you’re talking about then we know it’s going to have something to do with Estrogen. So, you go straight in with the ALPHA VENUS and the BLOCK E3 as the number one priority, and two I suppose. So, you do the ALPHA VENUS two capsules twice a day, and you do the BLOCK E3, you massage that over all those areas, and you do that, basically, twice a day after a shower as well. If you were to add in anything else I would add in a good multivitamin with Folic Acid and B12, and hopefully that multivitamin’s also got Zinc, and then you could add in the T432…
Jeff: Which has got the Zinc.
Matt: Because, T432 basically is cheating. At any stage if you want a faster Metabolic Rate you put in the T432 and you run faster, you burn more fat. But, the funny thing is, Estrogen inhibits Thyroid Hormone activity and if the Thyroid Hormone activity is low you get Estrogen dominance. So, we don’t really know. What I would do, normally I would go in and just hit Estrogen really, really hard…
Jeff: For a couple of months?
Matt: Yeah, but the problem is—we’re holding out a little bit.
Matt: So, if it was my athlete I’d go T432, ALPHA VENUS, BLOCK E3, and I’d hit them hard and I’d do them really well and get all the results in the first three months instead of doing the ALPHA VENUS and BLOCK E3, and then going, “Oh, we’ll add T432 in if we need to.” It’s a budget question.
Jeff: Oh, you know what? For Tamika let’s do a freebie, let’s…
Jeff: Yeah, let’s send her out an ALPHA VENUS, a BLOCK E3, and a T432.
Matt: Alright, well it’s your ALPHA VENUS. No, that’s a good idea.
Jeff: And, then we can see how we go. I mean it’s like anything, sometimes it can take a bit of time to unwind but you should start noticing results I’d say within the first 30 days.
Matt: Oh easy, you’ll notice changes quick.
Jeff: Keep the water nice and high. And, in fact, this whole podcast Tamika has probably been a really good thing for you to consider, if you can adapt some of those ideas as well too. Water consumption is obviously going to be quite important.
Matt: And, find out if there’s a source of Estrogen coming in from plastics, medication, drinking petrols. You know, inhaling pollutants.
Jeff: It’s funny, because we’re talking about this, and there are some things—we do have that podcast where we talk a lot about Xenoestrogens.
Matt: There’s an Estrogen podcast, do find that somewhere.
Jeff: Have a listen to that Estrogen podcast, Tamika. Things even like nail polish—have you been past those nail polish places, Matt, with all those girls lined up?
Matt: Yeah, Toluene.
Jeff: The smell of the acrylics coming out of there just is disgusting.
Matt: It’s full on, man.
Jeff: And, those sorts of things, for some sensitive people, can really cause a massive shift in your Estrogen. Cooking in microwaves, things with plastic and micros, again, that’s something else you can have a look at.
Jeff: Look, go and have a listen to that podcast, but try and eliminate as much of the stimulants to your Estrogen as possible. We’ll send you out that product, consume plenty of water and let us know how you get on. Done.
Jeff: Matt, that’s all the FAQs. The last word for the day?
Jeff: You’re useless.
Matt: Oh mate.
Jeff: No, you’re not really, you’re just not good at the last word, but you’re excellent at everything else. There you go.
Matt: I used all my words up earlier.
Jeff: Well, thanks guys for listening, I hope you’ve enjoyed the podcast. Love your FAQs, please keep sending them through. We appreciate any rate and reviews on the podcasts as well. We made back into the What’s Hot, I think, or News and Noteworthy; Toni was saying something about it. But, anything in terms of your support is really gratefully appreciated, and again, any questions that you’ve got send them through and we’ll try and answer them on the show.
And, thanks for listening.
Matt: Yeah, thanks.
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