Access Denied Transcript
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The ATP Project Episode 74 – Access Denied. No Multi for You.
Welcome to the ATP Project, Episode 74 – Access Denied: No Multi for You.
• Why common store Multivitamin doesn’t work
• The Conflict between Water and Fat Soluble Vitamins
• Non-compatible Ingredients in most Multivitamins blocking one or both ingredients from being Absorbed
• Overuse of Herbal Extracts and why they’re a bad idea in your Multi
• The One a Day myth blown out of the water.
Welcome to the ATP Project, you’re with your hosts Matt and Jeff.
Jeff: Access Denied – No Multi for you. That’s the title of today’s podcast.
Matt: Good, we don’t want your stupid Multi.
Jeff: Now, we’ve been talking a bit about it, I think a lot of people have got a really…
Matt: Our Multi?
Jeff: Well, Multivitamins in general. I think people have a really good understanding of where we’re at. If someone is listening to this podcast for the first time, what we’ve been talking about is how Synthetics are completely overused and have got way out of control, and not only are they not effective at providing people with the health benefits that they thought they were going to get, but there are some really systemic problems in the White Paper, that we spoke about, in the Royal Journal of Diabetes, it mentions that there is a direct correlation between the use of Synthetic Vitamins and a lot of disease states, including Heart Disease, Cancers, Diabetes, and as a by-product of that, Matt, also Weight Gain which a lot of people have found fascinating.
Jeff: And, you correct me if I’m wrong, my understanding of these things is very much lay as opposed to yourself as an expert. My understanding of the reasons for that is because the body then has additional work and processes it has to do to eliminate those Toxins, and if it can’t it will store those as Fat, and secondly, it can also impair the body’s ability to be able to process Fats because of that, so it can’t Methylate and Sulphate, is that correct?
Matt: Yeah. To put it into perspective, when we say there’s an association between something based on Epidemiological studies, statistically they show that a certain point in time they started fortifying foods and Multivitamins became available with Synthetics.
Jeff: Baby foods in the ‘70s.
Matt: Around the same time as the rates of Obesity skyrocketed. We also know, around the same time, from previous podcasts where we’ve talked about the Sugar conspiracies how they change the Food Pyramid. There are a lot of other things with change in lifestyle and everything, but as with everything, it’s the straw that breaks the camel’s back, you’ll find there’s never one cause for all these things, there are multiple causes. So, when you have all the Sugar stuff, Exercise stuff happening at the same time as you’re overloading people with Synthetic Vitamins it overwhelms their Conversion Pathways and their Elimination Pathways, as you said. These Vitamins themselves have to be Methylated and converted through the same process as Toxins need to be detoxified, so they compete with the exact same stuff we use them to get rid of.
Jeff: Yeah, funny isn’t it.
Matt: And, if you get the dose wrong, or if it’s in the wrong form, or if it doesn’t have all the right Cofactors and everything like that, these Vitamins come in and they do not know how to work. The end result is they either screw around with your Hormones, your Neurotransmitters, your Detoxification Pathways, or they overwhelm stuff, as in the case of the Fat-Soluble Vitamins, and they get stored into the Fat Tissue because they’re Fat Soluble.
Jeff: It’s interesting, Matt. I think a lot of people look at these things as a Cause and Effect, whereas they should look at it as a fight but on multiple fronts. Now, the enemy, if you like, comes in, probes certain areas, and you might have really strong resistance in certain areas, well we know they’re not going to come in that way, but if it comes in like a flood, if that makes sense, it will find the weakest link, it will break down that path, and it will affect you through that Pathway Mechanism, which is why no two people are the same. And again, some people might take one course of action, “Oh my gosh, this was the best thing ever. Someone else does it and goes, “What are you talking about?” It’s the words that we use as well, we’ve become far more aware, if you like, of the legal terminology around Cause and the Association, and this is a big one.
Jeff: A lot of people out there are saying, “This causes that,” or, “This causes this,” but it’s very difficult to say that because it’s almost impossible now to find an isolated state where that’s the only point of difference.
Matt: Yeah, exactly.
Jeff: But, as you said, Matt, we’re under bombardment of degradation of Nutrients in our Food, in the Soil, the harvesting, the packaging. Then we’ve got Toxic soup, I mean the 4G, the…
Matt: Electromagnetic radiation.
Jeff: We’re dealing with that, and we still don’t know what that is. Then we’ve got Pesticides, Aluminium put into our Water…
Matt: Water is money, and everything else.
Jeff: Oh my gosh. And, then you’ve got Vaccinations, then you’ve got Synthetic…
Matt: We hear, “Take Probiotics,” and our Food is covered in Roundup killing it.
Jeff: Exactly. And, you’ve got Synthetics, you’ve got all these different things. So, it’s very difficult, and legally you can’t go out—and, this is what was really interesting—legally, you can’t go out and say, categorically, “This caused that,” because the lawyers will come around and go, “No, it’s not the usual Suspect A, it might be Suspect B or C, and we already know that they might be associated with other things. So, Your Honour, I look for a dismiss because you can’t prove, categorically, that my client did it.”
Jeff: So, what happens is, when anyone that comes out and says, “X causes this,” “Oh well, you’re a fruit loop.”
Matt: But, if someone says, “This is associated with that,” it doesn’t get the sensationalist headlines they need to get any sort of attention on the world stage. So, you have to go out and say, “This causes that,”
just so people listen.
Jeff: Yeah, that’s right.
Matt: But, you can’t say that because it’s not actually true, and at the end of the day all they’ve got to do is prove something else can cause it as well.
Jeff: That’s right. Well, it’s not the cause, it’s an association.
Matt: It’s a cause.
Jeff: Like, I shoot you, Matt…
Matt: Why would you do that?
Jeff: I feel like it quite often.
Jeff: Everybody in the office does.
Matt: Really? But, I’m the HR Manager, no one’s said that to me. Fuckers. Really?
Jeff: Then, I caused your death.
Matt: Hang on. Hang on, stop talking about it. People want to shoot me?
Jeff: Yeah, but it’s alright, I’m getting to the point of the story. It ends well for everybody except for you. But, then if everybody in the office is poisoning your coffee every day…
Matt: What? They’re doing that? Who is behind this?
Jeff: Then, I might not have caused your death but I would be associated with it. Does that make sense?
Matt: I don’t even give a shit any of that anymore. I’m more worried about—I’ve still got a bit of coffee left.
Jeff: Drink up, Mattie. Anyway, I hope that paints a bit of a picture in terms of the legal jurisdiction that we’re working in.
Matt: Yeah, you guys are all fucking arseholes.
Jeff: When you categorically come out and make bold blank statements you can be picked apart.
Matt: Yeah. Is that what I did to upset everyone?
Jeff: No, it’s not, Matt. We’ve been careful to stay away from that, but it’s just I think a lot of people, again, make an assumption, they hear us talking about something and they automatically jump, “Oh well, you’ve said this,” “Well, no that’s not 100% true.”
Matt: No, you’ve got to listen to the wording, and if we make the wrong wording don’t get mad at us.
Jeff: And, we’re not trying to be tricky, we’re just saying these things may be there.
Matt: Yeah. Anyhoo. So, what we’re basically saying then was that these things can be bad.
Jeff: Yeah. And, you’ve been looking into just how bad it’s been, and we’ve got a lot of podcasts out there that our listeners have been listening to, and there are a few conspiracy ones there. The one that I really like is the “Are your Vitamins Killing You?” podcast, because that was when we really threw the light on all of this with our Multi that’s coming out, and why it’s based from Organic Food…
Matt: That’s when the light got turned on for me, because I’ve spent my whole life…
Jeff: Pandora’s Box, and we talk about that quite a lot.
Matt: Pandora? With the Vitamins, I did all those years of Naturopathic training, and I did all those years of making products for companies including Multivitamins and Minerals, and I was using all the research in a certain way, reading the research in a positive frame of mind with that belief that was brainwashed into me through my Naturopathic training that if it’s Naturopathic, Alternative, or Natural it’s good, and it can’t be bad. Even if it’s a Synthetic version of that, and that was the bizarre thing.
Jeff: And Matt was, “How is that Natural?”
Matt: Yeah, I know. And, we were even trained that, “The research shows this,” but you guys are TGA examined, you guys are smarter than that, so it’s your professional opinion you can prescribe the higher doses even though the research says it’s not a good idea. But, we’re trained to do that, and we’re trained by the companies that make the Multivitamins.
Jeff: That’s it.
Matt: I read through the monographs for the Synthetic Vitamins…
Jeff: What’s a monograph, Matt?
Matt: A monograph is a summary, sort of thing. So, one ingredient, here’s a basic summary of what it does. When you read through, and Folic Acid is a classic. If you read through Folic Acid and it will only tell you all the great things that come from Folic Acid, and then you read a herbal monograph on Folate, which is the combined form of all the Natural forms of Folates, which doesn’t include Folic Acid, by the way, it’s a totally different monograph. But, they are advertised and marketed as exactly the same thing.
So, what we’re going to do with our future podcasts is break down all of these Vitamins and Minerals and talk about them in depth so we get a proper understanding of what these things do, how they work, so you have a better understanding of how much of it you actually need, how much to take, what are the Cofactors needed.
Jeff: That frames the picture of what we’re going to talk about today, and please, if you get an opportunity, go back and look at those other podcasts. Appreciate that the Multivitamin is probably the most supplemented Supplement, the most used Supplement, globally, by people: sports people, elderly people, what have you.
Matt: And, weird stats, like medicals is something crazy. A massive percentage of doctors take Multivitamins; a very small percentage of the doctors recommend their patients do the same thing. But, there are some really interesting statistics about how many people and what type of people take Multivitamins and for what reason. But people don’t feel it, like when you take Multivitamins you typically don’t feel it, but they’re doing it for prevention.
Jeff: Yeah, that’s right. And, I think, obviously, our culture understands—and, again, I don’t want to go over it too much—but, what’s happening with pollution, what’s happening in the soil, Food quality—not quite there.
What I really like about what we’re going to talk about today, Matt, that you’ve studied and gone into is just how bad—aside from the Synthetics, which, obviously, we don’t believe are effective or good for your health long term, they’re missing the Cofactors, the Nutrients, the body’s inability to break them down. In short acute phases, they might be useful, Matt, so we’re not saying they’re completely useless at all times.
Jeff: But, if you have a Chronic or severe Disease, Matt, you’ve said yes it can be used for that, but long term use is going to create side effects, like almost any drug.
Jeff: So, you can almost use it like a drug, but if you stay on it then you’re going to have side effects over the long term.
Matt: And, that’s a really good point. So, basically, when you’re treating someone you’ll have an Acute Protocol, you’ll have a Sub-Acute and you’ll have a Chronic Protocol. So, when we’re looking at prevention and when we’re looking at maintenance of Nutrition levels, trickling in small doses with all the necessary Cofactors is the way to do it, but if someone, specifically, has an Iron Deficiency that you want to pick up really quickly, you want to use higher doses with all of the necessary Cofactors and get it in, fix it up really quickly, put the rest of the bottle in the cupboard in case it happens again. The same with Iodine; there are a few things that when Deficient you want to jack them up really quickly…
Jeff: Yeah, get them in there.
Matt: And, then there’s a couple of weird genetic conditions where people are, basically, leaking out these Vitamins, they cannot hold them in their body and the amounts that we’re getting in these Foods and thing is struggling to keep up, and in those people, it’s easier, sometimes, to supplement with a higher dose.
Jeff: Matt, people will hear that and automatically they go, “Oh, well I might not be sick but I’m hearing more is better,” and part of the thing we want to cover off today is, more is not better, and in fact, more is really could be quite bad. We’ve mentioned it with other things but today we’re going to talk about the Multi.
The other one, which is fascinating, are Conflicts. Now, when you and I first met you said to me—I can’t even remember what product it was but you were looking through it, and you went, “Jeff, who made this product?” and I said, “XYZ Company,” and you said, “This is garbage, these two products conflict, you cannot take them at the same time,” and I think it might have been Calcium and Zinc, I can’t remember. There was Zinc and Calcium in it and you said, “Well, they compete for absorption.” You said the other day something else and Zinc…
Matt: When we were designing the Multi, this was the hardest thing; when I’ve made Multies for other companies they go through and say, “We need these things to be there…
Jeff: They need A to Z.
Matt: Yeah, “We need these things, plus our competitors they’ve managed to find this many Vitamins to put in their product, this many minerals and this many herbs. To get market share we need a smaller capsule with more ingredients…
Jeff: One a day.
Matt: Oh, it had to be one a day, that was the general rule for Multi, prevention.
Jeff: Yeah, don’t inconvenience people.
Matt: Yeah. But, basically, there was no looking into Interactions at all. The funny thing is most of the discussions around Interactions were coming out of the R&D nerds down the bottom saying, “You can’t combine those two powders together, they disintegrate, they destroy each other,” and they’re going, “Really?” So, the funny thing was, when we were designing our particular product the biggest challenge was actually going through looking at Interactions.
Now, if you have a look at many of the products that we make through ATP, we don’t try to throw in everything but the kitchen sink, we usually try to throw in the least amount of Herbs that we can possibly use or Nutrients we can use, because we’ve only got a certain serving size, we need to fill that up, we need to maximise our bang for our buck, we need to make sure everything is in there at the therapeutic doses.
When making a Multivitamin and Mineral typically people are looking at 40 odd different ingredients. To understand the interactions between those ingredients we’ve got to understand how they’re working in the body, but they’ve still got to be blended into a powder, that powder has still got to be encapsulated or flavoured or whatever, and then the stuff still has to sit on the shelf for a bit before we get it to our body, and then understanding how it goes through the Digestive process into the body. So, you can imagine how complex that is, and you can also imagine, even though Vitamins are probably the most extensively studied things on earth, the actual combinations of the Vitamins is really lacking research.
There is bucket loads of research on each individual Synthetic Vitamin, but there’s not much research showing what happens when you combine them all together in a Multivitamin and Mineral, let alone then throwing in Herbs and that sort of stuff, which are the new exciting thing out of the Amazon or the Ayurvedic Medicine. So, the problem is trying to find that data and then, basically, making the decisions on which ingredients to leave out, which ingredients to use, was quite complicated. So, you’ll find, when you look through our Multi, you’re not going to see stupid crazy long lists of all of these different chemical names, and bucket loads of numbers, you’re not necessarily going to see ridiculous amounts of Vitamins in all different Synthetic forms, you’re not going to see us trying to cover every Mineral known to man, and you’re definitely not going to see a group of stupid Botanicals that are put in there just because people are Google keyword searching it.
Jeff: But, this is the thing, as far as market research is concerned…
Matt: Don’t ever do market on our stuff, we’d never put a product on the shelf.
Jeff: But, if someone was going to build a product—this is what they want, Matt, from the information that I’ve heard—they want it in a zero cap. We use double zeros, which are larger, and I appreciate a lot of people out there will go, “Damn it, these things are big and they’re hard to swallow.” Toni can’t, she just can’t get them down, it’s just crazy. As far as the double zero capsule I can swallow a whole heap at the same time, like half a dozen or something.
Matt: I’ll bet. You just chug them down.
Jeff: Absolutely love it, I get them in there. Whereas, I think, Matt, you take them up the other way, which is great, whatever works for you.
Matt: What other way?
Jeff: But, market research wants a zero cap, they don’t want a double zero, and they want everything from Beta Carotene right the way through to Zinc, and then, “Yeah, let’s throw in some Green Tea, let’s throw in a little bit of Probiotics…
Matt: Milk Thistle.
Jeff: Yeah, Milk Thistle. And, all of a sudden you’ve got this tiny little capsule that’s got everything but the kitchen sink in it, including Minerals, which are big…
Jeff: And, one a day thank you very much, I don’t want to take—so, are you kidding me? Come on, get real.
Matt: And, having a look at the actual process of manufacturing all those things, when you get microscopic amounts of an ingredient—for example…
Jeff: So B12 is pretty small, isn’t it?
Matt: Yeah. Like, Biotin, for example, 50 micrograms, or Iodine most people are trying to put in around the 50-microgram mark, and then have 300 micrograms of Folate, and then we’ve got 25 micrograms of Selenium. But, what are the chances of your double zero capsule having those Mineral powders being blended so consistently that you are going to get those tiny doses, when in Food sources of those things it’s a larger proportion of Food, and it may only have about 1% of that Trace Mineral, but it’s dispersed evenly through the product, then you add the larger chunk and your actual product get dispersed properly, your ingredients make sure they’re in the capsules and they can be tested for, which we’ve done, they can be tested for and made sure they’re still there. That is one of the challenges.
The other thing is, certain things, in the process of blending them together, they destroy themselves. For example; if you put Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin C, in with Vitamin B12…
Jeff: Which is in every single Multi.
Matt: Well, they’re all there, because if they don’t people won’t buy them because they haven’t got the full B Complex and they need to see Vitamin C or they’ll get Scurvy. So, if you put Vitamin C and B12 in the same blender together they destroy each other. Coenzyme Q10, Lipoic Acid, you commonly see those things now turning up in Multies as well because people are looking up Google keywords and searching for them. Lipoic Acid breaks down the Coenzyme Q10 instantly, just touch it, gone, dead. So, those things can’t be blended together. When you have a look at Fat Soluble Vitamins, the Vitamins A, D, E and K, and then you look at Water Soluble Vitamins, yeah, they’re usually extracted using different processes and things like that for starters, but they have totally different requirements for stability, for shelf life, they have totally different requirements for Absorption and Bioavailability, so to combine the Fat Soluble Vitamins with the Water Soluble Vitamins into one thing you can’t get the carrier vehicles you need for the Fat Soluble Vitamins in the Water Soluble base. So, you’re compromising one way or the other, you’re either converting your Water-Soluble Vitamins to be suspended in a Fat Soluble base, or you’re converting your Fat Soluble Vitamins to be Water Soluble…
Jeff: Which is the most..yeah.
Matt: Yeah, they normally make a Water-Soluble Vitamin E and that sort of stuff. In Nature, when you have a juice or something like that, if you make a Carrot juice then your Vitamin A is dispersed in amongst the juice, but to concentrate the Water-Soluble Vitamins you actually need to do a proper Water extraction technique which creates a particular base powder which is not compatible with a Fat-Soluble Vitamin extraction technique. Then, if you want to combine them together, you’ve got to regulate the PH, you’ve got to look at all the other fillers and excipients to make sure it goes through.
So, to have Fat Soluble and Water Soluble Vitamins in one product is not ideal anyway. Plus, this whole point is, to get these things, plus all their Co-factors in, you’re going to have to have more than one capsule a day, the stuff just not fit.
Jeff: Well, Matt, with ours as well, we’ve separated our Water Soluble from our Fat Soluble, and all the Water-Soluble Vitamins, which are the most pressing, and we’ll maybe talk about that and get into what the target is for our Multi, who should be looking to use it.
Jeff: We’re coming out with a Fat Soluble one later, we’re working on that formulation as we speak, right now.
Jeff: But, the Water-Soluble ones, probably the most sought after ones, we’re coming out with right now.
Matt: Yeah, exactly. And, with our product we’re just making sure we’ve got the Cofactors and all that sort of stuff and the right ratios. So, the Fat-Soluble Vitamins leave them out and do a proper Fat Soluble thing, and we’ll show you the Foods that you can use in the meantime.
Jeff: I was about to say, Matt, that would be a good idea.
Matt: Because they’re Fat Soluble you don’t need them daily, is the other point, they actually accumulate into the Fat Tissue of the body. Right at the start you’re talking about the Obesity Paradox where they said the Fortification of Foods and the Supplementation of things like Vitamin D, which is Fat Soluble, may be linked to an increased risk of Obesity because when someone takes too much Vitamin D they store it in Fat Cells and preserve the Fat Cells as a reservoir for their excess Vitamin D.
Jeff: Wow! But, you can pick up a bit of Vitamin D just from the sun, can’t you?
Matt: Exactly. So, Vitamin A, D, E and K we’ll put out a separate product for those, but really, it’s a sort of a top up product, it’s one that you have every once in a while, every couple of days.
Jeff: And, Matt, I would assume that if you’re consuming good amounts of Seeds, Nuts and Avocados you’re probably covered off with most of your Fat-Soluble Vitamins, yeah?
Matt: Yeah, that’s right. And, the other things in the Multies to look out for with Interactions in the actual blending process, in the manufacturing—Zinc is used as a Chelating Agent, meaning that Zinc is used to actually bind to Minerals and strip them from your body in the case of things like Lead and Copper and Mercury.
Jeff: Chelation Therapy.
Matt: Yeah, that’s right. It’s the main tool for Chelation Therapy. But, it basically sticks to any bloody Mineral, so if you look at Zinc it will Chelate Iron, it will bind itself to things like Magnesium and Copper to help create Enzymes and that sort of stuff that help the Absorption of other Nutrients. In some instances Zinc binds with Minerals to have a synergistic effect and enhance the Absorption of other things, but in the cases of Zinc and Iron in the same product it’s absolutely pointless.
Jeff: And, Calcium too, right? I’ve heard Zinc and Calcium…
Matt: Yeah, Zinc will deplete Calcium out of your body over time, as well.
Jeff: Right. And, this is where it obviously gets a little bit confusing for people, as well, is because then there’s the types, you’ve got your Citrates, your Oxides, your Phosphates, your Sulphates, you’ve got so many different types, and some are good, some are bad, some work well together, some don’t, some are good sometimes. So, Matt, no wonder people go, “Oh just give me the one a day bloody Multi with everything in it.”
Matt: Yeah. Well, Nature knows best, so instead of going, “Give me the one a day, the Synthetic ones, your best crack at modern science,” once you go back and go, “Okay, so why did we make a Multi in the first place?”
Jeff: The Food’s crap.
Matt: Exactly. Okay, so Food’s crap, so let’s…
Jeff: The Nutrients in our Food have been degraded.
Matt: Yeah. So, Food is crap because farming practises have gone to shit, Food processing techniques have gone to shit, Food storage and our cooking and our Food choices—so, therefore we’re not getting the Vitamins and Minerals. So, then the assumption made by the rest of the world, apart from us here, is, “Let’s grab some Synthetic chemicals, shat out by Genetically Modified Yeast fed Genetically Modified Corn Fructose or whatever, and put those into our foods or into our bottles.”
No. The smarter way to do it is to go back and find some cool farmers that are passionate about their farming, fix the farming techniques, work with scientists and that to work on the processing techniques and the stability techniques, work with labs to do the measuring and make sure that the Food actually contains the Vitamins and Minerals. Then, dose that Food appropriately, put it into a product, preserve it, give it to people to eat to supply them with the Nutrients that should have been found in the Food in the first place.
Jeff: Isn’t that right.
Matt: Then, they can go back and fill up their—if it fits your Macros with your Food that’s available. But, just look at that Food as Macros and cover your Micro Nutrients with a concentrated Food product that will provide you with what you need on a daily basis for your Vitamins plus all the Cofactors and Botanicals that are naturally found in the Foods that supply those Minerals.
Jeff: Makes sense. So, what have we left out and why?
Matt: Well, we left out the Fat-Soluble Vitamins because we’re going to provide a Fat-Soluble Vitamin solution soon.
Jeff: And, that will have the A, D, E, K?
Matt: Yeah, with Vitamins A, D, E, K and a couple of other little…
Jeff: A couple of other little cool things?
Matt: Yeah, that I’ve been wanting to put into stuff for ages, but until you’ve got that oil based delivery there was no point. We didn’t put in Iodine, and the reason I didn’t put Iodine into this Multi is that we’ve got that other product T432 Plus that has a good dose of Iodine and people are using that supplement to get the right level of Iodine. There are some people who are allergic to Iodine, and there are a lot of people who have variable requirements for Iodine, and Iodine is one of those things that if you find out you’re low you dose it up, you get it up the ideal dose and then maintain it with a trickle coming through from your Foods.
Jeff: For me, personally, Matt, one of the best supplements you can possibly take is your Celtic Sea Salt. It’s got what, 80 Trace Minerals in it? I forget exactly how many.
Jeff: But, for anybody who is taking a Multi, who’s doing it for health reasons, go and do yourself a favour—not the Himalayan pink Salt, which I know is really popular because…
Matt: I think it’s crap in Iodine.
Jeff: That’s right, because obviously, it’s from the Himalayas in the middle of the mountains whereas you want something that’s got…
Matt: Come from the ocean where the Iodine is.
Jeff: Exactly. So, get that Celtic Sea Salt. We should buy some shares.
Matt: You know your Trace Minerals in your body, and Trace Minerals are Chromium, Iodine, Zinc, Selenium…
Matt: Yeah, Copper. A bottle cap will hold all of the Trace Minerals in our body at any one time.
Matt: So, if you look at Sea Salt and that sort of stuff and how concentrated they are with Minerals…
Jeff: It’s got all that in there.
Matt: And, using those decent sort of doses you’re kind of replenishing a lot of this stuff. The amounts that we’ve got in our Multi of Selenium, Zinc, Chromium, those Trace Minerals, we’ve got you just at the right dose, so you can still consume all your normal Foods without going crazy, without going overdose. But, with Iodine if you’re dosing up your Iodine properly and then we just go and spike it up too much it’s enough to interact with Thyroid and that sort of stuff. So, you’re better off leaving Iodine out and then using your Sea Salts, Kelp and Sea Vegetables and Fish and all that sort of stuff to top up your Iodine. T432 Plus has a good dose of Iodine, and you can use that as an Iodine supplement.
Jeff: As a mechanism, yeah.
Matt: With Iron, Iron overload is very common, you know, excess Iron…
Matt: Hemochromatosis, yeah. But a lot of other Iron transport disorders, and a lot of people eating with the Paleo Diets and the high Protein Diets there are bucket loads of people with Toxic levels of Iron.
Jeff: Huge amounts of Iron. What does too much Iron in the body do, Matt?
Matt: Rust, it Oxidises.
Jeff: It makes you sluggish and tired?
Matt: Oh, hell yeah. Basically, it gets dumped into your Liver and there it Oxidises, and you know Iron Oxides rust. So, it does that to your Liver, it triggers Inflammatory reactions, a lot of Oxidative Stress. But, in all the traditional medicine systems they talk about it creating Anger, Frustration and Irritability and those sorts of symptoms, it makes you Hot and Flustered and Bothered and all that sort of stuff, and it contributes to a lot of Joint and Inflammatory problems in the Joints, which is interesting.
Jeff: But, with women, they’re normally saying, especially if they’re still having their cycle, that it can be too low, which also creates Low Energy as well, right?
Matt: Yeah, exactly. So, that’s the thing, if you’re Iron overload you don’t want to be having it, if you’re Iron Deficient you want to be taking megadoses in the short term to get it up really quickly, not just trickling in an insignificant amount from a Multi just because you see it on the label, especially knowing that Iron is probably going to bind to the Zinc and everything.
Jeff: Matt, so good Natural sources of Iron, obviously red meat, but what else is there that people can have?
Matt: They talk about Beetroot and Tomatoes, a lot of things that look as if they’re going to build Blood, a lot of the big red things and that sort of stuff.
Jeff: You’re talking about that Doctrine of Signatories?
Jeff: That’s cool, eh?
Matt: Yeah, I reckon it is very cool. So, with Iron in high doses in the short term just to top you up, and then once you get up you don’t need to keep taking it. And, little trickles in a Multi is negligible compared to what you can get from eating Foods or what you’ll need if you’re actually Anemic.
Jeff: Steak, Liver?
Matt: Yeah, that’s right.
Jeff: Get some Offal in.
Matt: It’s Offal alright.
Jeff: Yeah, it is Offal.
Matt: Yeah. The other thing we’ve left out is a lot of the weird Botanicals that people are adding into these formulas now. It bugs me, this EGCG extract from Green Tea has just taken over. I love Green Tea, I bash the shit out of it, I know.
Jeff: Yeah, we bash it.
Matt: And, you know why? I drink Green Tea almost every day, I love Green Tea, it is so good for you, it does all of these things. Green Tea is so much more than just an ECGC extract, there’s not just one compound extracted from it, especially when that compound can cause all sorts of problems. But, in saying that, no one has, effectively, studied these Botanicals that they’re adding in with the Vitamins, but we do know for a fact that things like, say Phytates and Phytic Acid, from Botanicals, the Tannins from Botanicals inhibit the Absorption of Minerals. So, we do know that many Herbs will actually block the Absorption, for example, the person…
Jeff: Goitrogen? Is this why this happens, if you’re drinking too much of the Green Tea the Goitrogens that’s in…
Matt: Yeah, it weird. EGCG has an effect in triggering Goitre. Other Goitrogens are things like Brassica species that have a compound that competes with Iodine for Absorption into the Thyroid, and then the Thyroid swells.
Matt: So yeah, we make sure there’s no Goitrogens and everything like that in our product, but more importantly, Phytates and Tannins and that simply just bind to the Vitamins and Minerals in the Gut and stop them from being Absorbed, and they’ll be doing that in the capsule. So, it’s like mixing through these Vitamins and Minerals and doing all this research to work out what dose you need and then, for no reason, right at the last minute you think, “We’ll throw this in,” and then that thing just glues it all together, and makes the whole thing…
Jeff: Useless. Inert.
Matt: Yeah, it’s stupid. Like, Sylimarin is an interesting one, it’s always been marketed as an Antioxidant, that’s the Antioxidant that’s in your Thistles, you know, your Milk Thistle, Saint Mary Thistle.
Jeff: Good for the Liver Detox and they pass it of that way.
Matt: Yeah, that’s right. And, they talk about as being one of the best Antioxidants, and how it works as an Antioxidant is it actually binds to Heavy Metals, so it actually binds to Iron, Copper and Zinc and all that sort of stuff in the body, but it stops Iron and Copper from being Pro-oxidant and creates Oxidative Stress. Interestingly, one of the most potent Antioxidants in our body is made out of Copper, the Copper zinc superoxide dismutase. So, adding Sylimarin into a product, because it’s an Antioxidant so you can add an Antioxidant claim, you’re actually binding out one of the ingredients the body uses to make Antioxidants plus if there is Iron in the same product you wouldn’t do that.
Jeff: Again, I used to sell a lot of these products, Matt. Methionine, Inositol, Milk Thistle…
Matt: Oh, Methionine, don’t—you just said that to stir me up.
Jeff: Yeah, I did. And, next I’ll say Arginine. But, the thing is, that was a really popular product that people would take to help with Detoxification. A lot of girls came in and guys, and grabbed it after a night on the turps, drinking alcohol, and again, they were like more is better, so therefore it was touted as being excellent for Weight Loss, and that was combined a lot with L-Carnitine. But, how much I used to sell when I was in retail, and Inositol Choline and Milk Thistle with L-Carnitine as a Pre-workout too.
Matt: They’re putting all them in Multies now as well, so now you’re getting these little Amino Acids so people are now like, “We all want a High Protein Diet,” everyone wants Protein, so now they’re putting Amino Acids in the Multies as well. Methionine’s one of them—you know the average Western Diet provides 60% more Methionine than you can actually use for Muscle, Protein Synthesis and Detoxification processes.
Jeff: That’s why everyone is walking around with Varicose Veins and Spider Veins, and dying, Blood Clots.
Matt: Exactly. I’m glad you said that because Methionine is made in the body from Homocysteine and Homocysteine is a Waste, so Homocysteine is a Waste that degrades Arteries, breaks down your Brain, causes Kidney problems, it contributes to about 30% of age related disorders. If you have too much Methionine it backlogs the Homocysteine Detoxification Pathways and causes a massive build-up of Homocysteine, and then Homocysteine will kill you. So, taking Methionine is pointless, especially considering we eat so much of it anyway, there’s plenty of it in an average diet.
Jeff: I think Methionine can be used for acute drug overdoses, but that’s probably where it should stay.
Matt: Well, even through that process it only does it because Methionine is used as a precursor to SAMe, and SAMe is an Adenosylmethionine, which then is a Methyl Donor. So, it’s the universal Methyl Donor—did I say Meth Donor?
Jeff: No, you said Methyl.
Matt: I did say Methyl Donor?
Matt: So, SAMe will basically roam around the body giving Methyl groups so you can conjugate Toxins and all that sort of stuff, and regulate that. So, if you’re going to do it you do bloody SAMe anyway, you wouldn’t even bother with Methionine because your body has still got to process it through.
Jeff: Again, a lot of people are hearing this and going, “Oh crap, now I’ve got to stay away from Methionine.” And, it’s true, Matt, a lot of people whack these things in because they look at an isolated part of an excerpt of a study that says, “Well, Methionine helps with Fat Loss through this mechanism,” and it’s, Yeah, okay.”
Matt: But, while we’ve just mentioned Homocysteine we will talk more about these things in depth when we talk about the Folic Acid and everything, but this is an important point of making sure that you’ve got the right mix of Vitamins and Minerals coming through. Folic Acid is the thing that everyone takes to strip out Homocysteine, that’s what the medical world prescribes. The Enzymes that work around Folic Acid, the main Enzyme that converts the Folic Acid supplement to the Activated form of Folate that we need to work in our body is dependent of Vitamin B12. If you have a Vitamin B12 Deficiency Folic Acid cannot work. To incorporate B12 into that Enzyme it needs Vitamin B2, if you don’t have Vitamin B2 the B12 and the Folate can’t work.
Then, what you’ve got is an actual transfer Molecule that requires a reduction process for that Enzyme to be made, originally, and that requires Vitamin C. If you don’t have Vitamin C you can’t start the process. So, when people are selling Folic Acid they mark it Folic Acid, and it works in 90% of the cases in reducing Homocysteine. You know how you see it on TV, “Take Folic Acid, 90% of the time, it works every time for Neural Tube Defects and all that”?
Matt: Those other one in 10 people, “Sorry, we chose to use Folic Acid instead of 5-MTHF which would have worked in probably 100% of the cases, but we want to use Folic Acid instead, and we didn’t want to educate on you Vitamin C, B12, B2,” all that other shit I talked about.
Jeff: Matt, as far as marketing is concerned, because obviously, I have a lot to do with marketing, you have nine seconds to grab people’s attention, so in a 30 second commercial the first nine seconds is, basically, just trying to say one thing.”
Matt: It’s no wonder they don’t say Methylenetetrahydrofolate Reductase Polymorphism, because there’s your nine seconds gone. Mother Fucker Gene, MTHFR, that gets your attention,
Jeff: That did get my attention and everybody else’s as well too, thanks for that Matt, that’s poddy mouth, I can’t believe you kiss your mother with that mouth.
Matt: I’m a marketing genius. You kissed my mother with that mouth.
Jeff: Yeah, call me Daddy.
Matt: You’re just setting yourself up into a big ditch, Man. I have no idea what I’m talking about.
Jeff: Yeah, I’ll say g’day to your mum for you.
Matt: I hope she doesn’t listen to this podcast, she’d hate you. She met you the other day, she didn’t say anything about it.
Jeff: That’s not the best of it, Matt.
Matt: You’re a sick puppy.
Jeff: Anyway, Matt, the important thing is that it’s hard for people to get informed because people have such a short attention span, and that’s only fuelled then by advertising which is trying to get across one point, “Here you go.” Matt, what you’re talking about, and most of our listeners are relatively educated or wanting to get educated, the vast majority of the public do not want that…
Matt: Ignorance is bliss.
Jeff: They want to be told, “What do I need? I need one a day, I want that.” So, what do marketers do? “Oh, you need one a day. Here, just take this tablet, you’re fine, you’re covered.”
Matt: No, sorry, you need? “You want? I will give it to you. It’s not what you need.”
Jeff: No, that’s right, and they’re not correcting that difference, Matt.
Matt: It’s like Vitamin C, a classic example is Vitamin C. The studies, the research shows 150 milligrams to 250 milligrams of Vitamin C is all you need.
Jeff: Yeah, and we talked about that in the Great Hoax podcast, the Vitamin C Hoax, which is really amazing, and the amount of information and letters that we got back from that, just people going, “Oh my gosh, I have been hoodwinked.” “We’ve just been absolutely lied to.”
Matt: Yeah. Gee I love that word.
Jeff: Hoodwinked? We should use it more often.
Matt: I know. I’m going to start a campaign.
Matt: A Facebook group, but I’m not on Facebook so it would be awkward. Someone will do it.
Jeff: But, you get this feeling, Matt, and with the feedback that we get, that people feel they’re damned if they do and they’re damned if they don’t, and I guess that’s the difference that we’re trying to make. Yes, fresh Fruit and Vegetables, but we appreciate it’s not always practical, it’s not always viable, people are busy, which is why we created the Multi Food.
Matt: Yeah, exactly.
Jeff: Now Matt, in terms of this product, and again, I know a lot of people will look at it and go, “Oh, there’s a lot of stuff that’s not in here,” and there’s also a lot of stuff that we haven’t put in the label like the Cofactors and the Nutrients, which is why it works. But, the way that you crafted it, Matt, the amount of time that you spent getting the right ratios and the active forms—Matt, what is the Multi Food? Give it a bit of a plug. I mean, obviously, Matt, we’re a big fan of it.
Matt: It’s a really tricky one. I was sitting there with our sales rep the other day and he was saying, “Why is it so different, what makes it so different?” and I was saying to him, and this is an honest thing, “I honestly believe that it is the first true Multivitamin made, because it is following the laws of Nature. Basically, the hardest part of it was tracking down and finding people to partner with who actually have a passion about farming, and we needed to get the raw materials farmed. So, what we’ve done is we’ve gone back and looked at why were Multivitamins and Minerals made, how did we get to this point? They were made because we didn’t have the Vitamins and Minerals in the Food. So, instead of creating certain Vitamins in a lab and then fortifying our Foods with it, we’ve gone back and said, “Why aren’t they in the Foods? Farming, processing and all that sort of stuff.”
So, we’ve worked directly with the farmers to improve their techniques, and found farms that are a hell of a lot smarter than us with farming and know how to make sure that the Vitamins and Minerals are actually in the Food. And, then the labs to actually extract them and preserve them is another one, and then the expense that we’ve actually gone to, to test them…
Jeff: I was going to say, the accuracy of the tests they were spot on, it’s true.
Matt: Oh, but how hard. It took so bloody long to get the testing done, and so damn expensive. So, we’ve managed to get all the testing done on all these foods and consistency within the batches so we can put the right amount in. Then what we’ve done is we’ve adjusted our dosages and everything to make sure you’re getting the right amount of the plant. So, for example, some of the plants might contain 0.5% of the Vitamin we’re looking for, the rest of the plant has it’s own benefits itself, all the other Phytonutrients and Antioxidants and everything like that, Cofactored Botanicals. Those plants are here to give us those Nutrients, and everything else in that plant works synergistically with those Nutrients to make sure they get into the body. So, then what we had to do was work out the Interactions between these plant materials.
The end result is, we’ve managed to find half a dozen plant sources, things like Lemon peels and Guava leaves and Guava fruits, concentrated Foods that we know the ingredients are in there, they’ve been measured, we know how much of these powders to combine to give you these amounts of Vitamins and Minerals, plus all their Cofactors and Nutrients and none of the other odds and ends that are usually put in there just for Google keyword searching.
Jeff: Or blocking things. It works synergistically, correct?
Matt: Yeah, exactly. It works synergistically, and it’s absolutely freaky the way it works, the results we’re getting are pretty bloody cool.
Jeff: Matt, again, we’re going to talk anecdotally here, and it’s one of those things we probably need to delve into a little bit more. I know that you and I both believe that it improves workouts significantly, and I know a lot of pre-workouts put B Vitamins in there but, just very quickly because I don’t want you to get into too much depth, how do you think the Multi will actually improve performance?
Matt: Well, if you have a look at the Water-Soluble Vitamins, for example, just the B Vitamins, the B Vitamins are important Cofactors for every stage of Energy Production. For example, you get Vitamin B1 it’s an Enzyme Cofactor for 24 different Enzymes. Every Cell of our body needs Vitamin B1 for Energy Production.
Matt: For Neurotransmitter Production…
Jeff: So, it does help with ATP and Neurotransmitters.
Matt: With Nerve Function. For the actual Metabolism and Branch Chain Amino Acids and that sort of stuff, B1 is a crucial factor. Vitamin B2 was the original Growth Factor identified back in 1870 something.
Jeff: 1876, I think. I forget exactly when it was.
Matt: From egg whites, and they went, “That’s what’s in egg whites, so that’s what is stimulating growth in people, Vitamin B2.” It’s actually a Coenzyme involved in all of the different mechanisms for Growth Factors, Metabolism, and again, for the release of Neurotransmitters in the Brain, for Mood and Energy. Vitamin B3 is massively important for regulating the movement of Sugar and Fat within our body, they use it for Diabetes and Cholesterol problems; for anyone who can’t take Sugar as fuel out of your bloodstream and put it into the Cells it’s associated with B3 Deficiency. If you look at B5 you would have heard of Acetyl Cholines and Acetyl this, and Acetyl, those things, well B5 is CoA…
Jeff: So, it makes you feel good? I mean it helps with the Brain and…
Matt: Exactly. So, B5 is in anything that needs to be converted into an Acetyl form or works in an Acetyl form is incorporated with Vitamin B5.
Jeff: Wow! So, Depression and things like that could obviously be impacted massively by inhibition of B5?
Matt: Not only that, Vitamin B5 is a crucial Cofactor for the production of Steroid Hormones via the Adrenal Glands, and that’s a major factor for Adrenal Exhaustion, and the funny thing is, B5 has to be trickled in to prevent Adrenal Exhaustion. Once you’ve had the full Exhaustion and the Cells have actually been damaged it can’t work, so you’ve got to put the B5 in regularly, and it goes in and straight away it makes the Acetyl compounds and everything like that for Acetyl Choline for Muscle contractions and Brain function and all that sort of stuff.
B6 helps with the Metabolism Amino Acids. So, if you don’t have B6 then you can’t use Amino Acids like Tyrosine to make Adrenaline and Dopamine. You can’t convert Tryptophan to Serotonin. Also, without B6 you can’t control your Hormonal Pathways, so it’s involved in all those Enzymes for that. B6 can’t work on those functions unless it’s got Zinc and Magnesium joined to it, that’s why we put little bits of Magnesium in.
Jeff: ZMA as Zinc, Magnesium and B6?
Matt: Yeah, exactly. And, in our Multi, for example, we’ve got pretty much ZMA as well, but the Magnesium in ours is not a huge amount that you’d see in a dedicated Magnesium supplement, but I wanted to put enough in so that the Zinc Magnesium B6 Enzymes—so the Magnesium is capable of becoming the Cofactor that’s it’s designed for, for the Absorption. So, it’s not actually in there to top up Magnesium levels, it’s in there as a Cofactor for the Absorption of the other Vitamins.
Vitamin B9, you’re looking at your Folic Acid involved in all the Methylation, Red Blood Cell production, but also Vitamin B9 is important for Nerve Function and Nerve Conduction.
B12, again, Energy Production, Nerve Conduction, that sort of stuff. Biotin is in there, Biotin regulates Blood Sugar control and that sort of stuff, it delivers the fuel.
Jeff: Good for your hair.
Matt: So, what do we use in a Pre-workout? It’s usually loaded up with Amino Acids, it’s usually loaded up with…
Jeff: B3 and B6, at least.
Matt: Well no, apart from the B Vitamins. So, typical Pre-workouts are Amino Acids, Herbal stuff to control Catecholamine release in the Brain and Neurotransmitter release, so all of the things in typical Pre-workouts are a combination of Amino Acids, Stimulants, and stuff like Carnitines and whatever, all things that cannot work if you haven’t had your daily does of B Vitamins. And, when I say your daily dose of B Vitamins, because they’re Water Soluble it’s topping them up every day.
Jeff: What’s really interesting Matt, is again, they’ll look at an artefact and you’ll see a B6 or a B3, you won’t see the gamut, you’ll only see—and, again, they’re using them in a synthetic form.
Matt: And, they’re using them the wrong way. They’re not using, for example, B3 in a Pre-workout. Now, B3 in a Pre-workout is there for a couple of reasons in a high dose.
Jeff: A Niacin rush, yeah.
Matt: When you get a Niacin rush it causes the flushing the splotching through a Vasodilation effect, but it’s not proper Vasodilation, it’s a flushing reaction that makes you feel tingly and flushed like you’ve had something. The other thing that B3 is usually used in high doses for is to mask drug tests. So, interestingly, if you’ve got some other substances that aren’t in your label and you don’t want people to fail their drug test they can stack a heap of B3 in it, and it will compete for elimination with the other stuff and can mask drug tests from Amphetamine compounds.
Jeff: I know a few companies that are probably doing that. That’s not too bad is it?
Matt: It’s a sneaky trick, isn’t it?
Jeff: A lot of people will be going, “What are those companies, Jeff? I wouldn’t mind getting on it.”
Matt: Yeah, well do what you want, you know.
Jeff: No thank you.
Matt: It’s interesting. Now, Vitamin C, out of all the Vitamins, gives us the most amount of Energy. Isn’t that interesting.
Matt: So, you know how you talk about B Vitamins, “You better have them in the morning or they’ll keep you up all night,” well, Vitamin C [overtalk].
Jeff: Well, you’ve got to “get your bounce back” don’t you?
Matt: Yeah. So, the Vitamin C—I think we talked about it in the Vitamin C Hoax thing—but Vitamin C they always talked about as the requirement for Preserving the Adrenal Gland and stopping Adrenal Exhaustion as well, it was always C and B5 together. They’ve recently studied Vitamin C and said, “How does it help us with Stress?” What it does is it actually helps to fuel the production of Adrenaline, which is our Nervous Response to Stress. So, out of all the Vitamins you could take, Vitamin C is the most effective at increasing your release of Catecholamine’s and working with Stimulants, not to preserve or have a sparing effect on the Adrenals, but just to enhance the effect of the Stimulants.
Matt: Cool huh?
Jeff: That is cool. So, Matt, in summary, obviously, Vitamins are a tricky subject. We know that people are not getting what they pay for. Effectively, they’re damned if they do and damned if they don’t, for the most part with Multies because the synthetics they’re putting in there are low dose, the forms that they’re putting in a cheap binders and fillers, they’re not synergistically designed to work together. There is all sorts of competition, you know, Methylation, Binding, Chelation, factors that are happening in there.
Matt: And, they only exist because Nature was insufficient because of OUR way we screwed it.
Jeff: Nature’s not inefficient.
Matt: No. So, because of our—I’m trying to think of the word—intervention…
Jeff: Screwing with Nature.
Jeff: We screwed the pooch.
Matt: That’s just disgusting.
Jeff: That’s what they call it.
Jeff: The dog thing.
Matt: What? That’s a style.
Jeff: No. It’s like backstroke.
Matt: Oh, so—you stroke her back while screwing the pooch?
Jeff: Matt, what you do in your own home is your own personal thing, right. But, anyway, I just want to get back on track here. Sorry. So, what’s happening is it’s a bait and switch, effectively. A lot of companies are thinking they’re doing the right thing too, because they’ve been told by the large pharm companies here, “You want B3? We’ve got to standardise it, it’s nice, it’s shelf ‘stayable’, this test is 100 times out of 100,” and this is the thing. In Nature it’s very evolved, there are things that make it a bit more difficult, seasonal and what have you.
Fortunately, we’re working with a company that’s got Natural methods of Water Extraction and are able to concentrate them in very consistent ways, which is great.
Matt: yeah. The way I look at it, from a scientific angle, this whole Food Fortification and Vitamin use was an hypothesis that has been tested on the population, so they’ve mass medicated the population to test a hypothesis. The results have shown that the hypothesis was wrong, you can’t compensate for Nature’s Deficiencies with manmade synthetics. The only way to improve it is to go back to where we started and improve our Interventions with Nature to make sure that the Food that the earth provides for us contains all of the Microminerals and Nutrients that the earth originally put in the bloody thing.
Jeff: But, that’s the problem, Matt. When you’ve got companies like Monsanto, and Bayer who are emerging now, I think Bayer is buying Monsanto out, you’ve got these mega corporations that are selling the fertilisers, the pesticides, and look, farmers are under the gun to produce crops, it’s not the farmer’s fault either.
Jeff: If they don’t make the money their family—they go bankrupt, they go out.
Matt: But, the amount of waste that just gets ploughed back into the soil because it doesn’t fit the cans or it doesn’t fit the shelf image. Anyway. But, the point is, they made an hypothesis that tested it, the thing didn’t bloody work, so let’s go back to the drawing board and go, “What was the original plan? Top up Diet because the Food was shit?” Let’s make the Food better and use that to top up the Diet.
Matt: So, the whole plan—the simple message is, all this other stuff was too complicated, we tried to be too clever. Go back to the basics which is, spike up your Diet with a couple of little bits of Food that are guaranteed to provide you with the Nutrients you need, and then just keep eating and training and exercising and working on the hard bit, and then just pop in a couple of these every day to make sure that you’ve got the basics that you need.
Jeff: And, some of our fans out there are extremely dedicated Food Smart people, they are growing their own Food, they’re going to the local markets, they’re eating a variety of Seeds and Nuts, they’ve looked at their Food from a Micronutrient, not just a Macronutrient, and these people are probably going to be the picture of health. For those sorts of people this may not be necessary for you.
Matt: No, but you might want to do it just on the days you don’t do those things.
Jeff: That’s true. And, Matt, you and I we’re busy, and I don’t know how much sleep I’m getting at the moment, but it’s certainly not enough.
Matt: That’s because of FIFA not because of anything else.
Jeff: FIFA, definitely, that’s definitely playing a bit of a part of it. But, being busy generally, and so as a result you get caught short, you don’t bring your Food with you, you go and eat at a restaurant, and again, you’re missing out on some of the Nutrients, and I think 95% of the population probably falls into that category, and that’s where Multi Food can, obviously, be beneficial.
Matt: Yeah, that’s right. Exactly.
Jeff: Matt, thanks for your time today. Is there anything else that you wanted to mention before we sign off? We’re not going to do FAQs today. Elsa has been lollygagging…
Matt: Lollygagging and hoodwinked.
Jeff: Yeah, there’s another word we don’t use enough. Lollygagging and regular gagging. But, over in Bali having a gay old time, so in terms of…
Matt: That’s a word we use too much.
Jeff: Well, it’s a word we don’t use in that context much anymore. But, she’s been having a great time in Bali. But Matt, don’t forget he was old, he was 80 odd when he passed away just a couple of years ago.
Matt: Was he gay?
Jeff: No, he wasn’t. No, I don’t think so. But, listen Matt, you’re missing the point.
Jeff: The point of the story is we don’t have FAQs today because Elsa’s been away.
Matt: I’ve bloody got to that point.
Jeff: Oh, thank goodness.
Matt: You poor—I can’t believe you’d go and do that sort of stuff.
Jeff: My dad was straighter than straight.
Matt: He was a dapper old gentleman.
Jeff: He was. Anyway, anything else?
Jeff: There’s another word. We’ve got to throw these back into the lexicon, Matt. There’s one, lexicon.
Jeff: We’ve got to throw that back into the lexicon as well.
Matt: Dapper, lexicon would do it.
Jeff: Matt, last word?
Jeff: Excellent. Thanks for listening everyone. We really appreciate it. We’ll be back next week, and we’re going to be doing slightly a different format with some of the FAQs, we’re going to be putting them up individually, we’ve had a lot of requests from people to have an itemised category or them catalogued, so that people can actually listen to it. Again, it’s not designed to cure, treat, or diagnose, it’s for informational purposes only, but it’s a great starting point so that you can get informed and then talk to your healthcare professional.
But, anyway, we’ll be back next week, Matt, with some more.
Jeff: See you then.
END OF TRANSCRIPT
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